Behind the Counter
Behind the Counter - Business Stories from the Four Corners:
Real Businesses. Real Conversations. Right Here in Our Community.
Every week, I sit down with local business owners to hear the real stories behind their work — the highs, the lows, and everything in between. Whether they run a bakery, a repair shop, or a creative studio, each of them has something powerful to share.
This is more than a podcast — it’s a celebration of the hustle, heart, and humanity that keep the Four Corners thriving.
Behind the Counter
Why The Wrench Is Easy And The Invoices Hurt
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
A lot of people think running a plumbing company is all wrenches and water lines, but the real test starts when the job is done and the paperwork begins. We’re joined by Jason Judah, owner of Creative Mechanical Solutions Plumbing (CMS Plumbing) in Aztec, New Mexico, to talk about building a trusted trade business in the Four Corners and what it takes to compete when bigger names have bigger budgets.
Jason shares how he got his start in plumbing in Phoenix, why he came back home, and what surprised him most once he became the owner. We dig into the unglamorous reality of estimates, commercial bids, scheduling crews, and setting up systems so the office side doesn’t drown the field work. He also breaks down how a plumber has to think mechanically and plan ahead, from stocking the right materials to handling code-heavy commercial projects.
Because this is a rural market, we also talk septic system installation, leach fields, high water tables, environmental permits, and when above-ground berm systems come into play. Jason explains what marketing works in a small town, why word of mouth is everything, and how a smaller local contractor can beat big chain plumbing companies by being faster, more flexible, and more personal. We close with hard-earned lessons on pacing growth, branding, hiring and training, and why the skilled trades still offer one of the clearest paths to a strong living without a college degree.
If you like honest small business stories and practical advice for contractors, subscribe, share this with a friend in the trades, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway.
Be sure to follow or subscribe! And, if you're a local business owner who'd like to be featured - or know someone whose story should be told - get in touch at Ken@StrategicHorizonsConsulting.com
This show is brought to you by Strategic Horizons Consulting (a division of Ken Collins Marketing).
Welcome And Guest Overview
SPEAKER_01Today, we're sitting with Jason Juda, the owner of Creative Mechanical Solutions Plumbing, also known as CMS Plumbing, here in Aztec, New Mexico. Jason and his team specialize in residential and commercial plumbing, gas work, new builds, and septic and leached field installation. They're licensed, bonded, insured, and serving the Four Corners area with a focus on quality workmanship and customer satisfaction. Jason got a start in the trades over eight years ago and has built his business the old-fashioned way through hard work and word of mouth. We'll be talking about what it takes to run a local plumbing company in a small market, how he differentiate differentiates himself from the bigger chains, and what he's learned about building a reputation in the community. If you're a contractor, a small business owner, and just want to hear how a local tradesman is competing in today's market, stick around. Let's welcome Jason Juda. Hi. Hi. How are you? I'm doing well. How are you doing? Good. So what inspired you to start this business?
SPEAKER_02So I actually started in 2009 in Phoenix with my uncle. Um I was just living down there and I liked it down there and uh started with him because he owned a plumbing business and I was just getting my start. And I really enjoyed doing it. I liked the mechanical side of it. Yeah. I really enjoy it. It takes some thinking.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So that's what I enjoyed about it. And then I did get out of it for a while and got into renovations and some other stuff. But then uh 2023, I ended up coming back here and uh started again with another uncle of mine here in Farmington that owned his own plumbing business. And then from there I just stayed with it because I really enjoyed doing it. Very cool.
SPEAKER_01Plus, it's a bit cooler here than in Phoenix. Yes, yes, a lot cooler. I like it. Especially in the summer. I winter's really nice, but summer, oh man. Yes.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it gets very hot up there.
SPEAKER_01It seems like every time I've gone through Phoenix,
From Phoenix To Plumbing Owner
SPEAKER_01it was during the summer, and I felt like I was gonna die in the shade.
SPEAKER_02Right. Yeah, usually there, you're starting early to get off early. Yes.
SPEAKER_01Um, so what were the early days like starting a business?
SPEAKER_02Um, well, I did get kind of a head start with it, being that my uncle knew some of the contractors here, and that really helped us get our start. Yeah. Um, so word of mouth kind of got out really fast that we were starting through the local construction companies that we were working for. Very cool. Yes.
SPEAKER_01Was there a most so that gave you a a pretty a pretty decent head start? You didn't have to go out and find that very first customer and everything.
SPEAKER_02So yes, and we were at that time, because there's also different fields of uh of plumbing, we uh sorry. That's okay, yeah. At that time we weren't really taking on service calls, we were doing more just remodeled new construction, right? Right, right. Yes.
SPEAKER_01So with that head start, was you might have skipped this process. There's usually a
The Office Side Hits Hard
SPEAKER_01process early, early on when new business owner is like halfway confident, like this is amazing, this is happening, and then and then a couple days in, you're like, oh my god, what have I done? And then there's a point later on where you're like, okay, okay, this might actually work. So did you go through that process where you had that aha moment of okay, this might actually work?
SPEAKER_02Um, yeah, absolutely. So when I first started, I was super excited, like you said, super excited to get rolling and stuff. What really got me was the office side of it, the business side of it. So I've always been an employee or did that the work, never had to run the business. So that's been the challenging part for me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. That that uh especially in trades, I find that a lot where you know super talented people, like fully capable of doing amazing work. And then so they're thinking, I could do this on my own. I'll set up my own business, and then all the business stuff just starts drowning them. They're like, uh, I just want to, I just want to do plumbing, man. Why do I have to deal with accountants and bookkeeping and invoices? Yes. Yeah, a whole other side to it. If you could if you could go back and tell yourself one thing before opening, what what would that be?
SPEAKER_00Hmm.
SPEAKER_02Maybe just to get a little bit more business going, that would be it, to to get a little bit more education on the business side. That way when starting it, would feel more confident on that. Because once you actually get into it and you're rolling and you see, you know, two months in that hey, my office is getting backed up because I don't really know what I'm doing and I need to get on it. That that kind of brings in a little stress.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, now you don't have time to really deal with it properly instead of like setting that up.
SPEAKER_02Right, right. So well, we've had to evolve with it and figure it all out as we've been going, and that's been that's been a process.
SPEAKER_01To put your mind at ease, I think that's a little bit of the norm for a lot of business owners. And that's actually some of the advice I give. Um, and I've actually heard that from big companies where um uh the the most important thing is to just start, just get started. And uh I struggle, I struggled with that a lot myself. And then somebody reminded me, it used to happen all the time. Do you remember like the early days of Microsoft when they'd roll out uh new windows or something, and all of a sudden everybody's getting the blue screen of death, yes, just constantly, and it's because they knew. Um, and this quote came from uh from an all-tale CEO um time to market is more important than getting everything right. Because you're making money while you're building your business. So that's important. Just get started and figure the rest out as you go, you know? Yes, yeah, it's it's been it's been fun. It has. There's there's a you can get into a little bit of paralysis sometimes when you overthink everything before getting started. So if you were to like take a bunch of business courses and do all this kind of thing, and it might have been two, three, five years before you actually get the business and you haven't made any money. You're just spending money at the time. Right, right. And time. Yeah. So for you, what's a what's a typical day behind the counter look like?
SPEAKER_02Oh, typical day behind the counter. So to be honest, I'm not really much behind the counter. So um I'm out in the field a lot. Um always out doing bids, yeah, that thing, kind of looking at jobs. Um, usually lining people up in the morning, lining the hands up, you know, making sure everybody's going where they need to go. Um but yeah, I mean, you have your good days and your bad days. I mean, you know, you're busy sometimes, and sometimes it's slow. That's been the challenge is just keeping the a steady stream of business going. Right.
SPEAKER_01Are there certain parts of the business that take more time and effort?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I would just say just the bids and the proposals, too. So doing like commercial bids take a lot more time than doing, you know, residential bids. You have to think through the whole project and yes, yeah. Well, you've got the plans are a lot bigger, you have a lot more stipulations,
Field Work And Complex Bids
SPEAKER_02codes, things like that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I can only imagine on something like plumbing because then you're getting down to like bits and bobs to come up with that.
SPEAKER_02And it's very mechanical, lots of parts to plumbing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Um yeah, that just hit my brain. Wow.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I mean, just I mean, for instance, for water lines, you've got PVC, copper, galvanized, uh CV PVC, you know, there's just so many different materials for that's just for a water line. So yeah. So, you know, before you even get to a job, you have to have all that on the truck ready to go. So when you show up to do the job, you say, Oh, they got pecs in the wall. Okay, well, let's go get our pecs stuff out and fix that. But you have to have everything, you know. So it's kind of challenging.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Unless you want to run around all day and not do work. Well, yeah, you'll spend more time at the part store than on the job. Right. Do you have systems that that in place that keep everything running smooth? Right now, yes.
SPEAKER_02We've just the last six months for us has been our best as far as getting organized, and we do have a system now that is working for us. Very cool. Yes. Awesome.
SPEAKER_01Um what what types of marketing has worked best for you so far?
SPEAKER_02Ooh, I would say just the local Google ads and stuff, uh, Facebook ads, those have been, those have been really good. Um, here in the small town, I I was born and raised here, so word of mouth has also been really big. This is a huge place for that. Right. Yeah. And that that right there is big here, you know, because uh if you're not taking care of your jobs and doing right, then the word of mouth about you comes out not too well, and that can get around pretty quick, which can hurt your business.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, word of mouth is always super powerful. And the weird thing is that Facebook, that's what Facebook is, right? Yeah. Um and it took me too long to understand. I always knew because I grew up here as well, that this place is different. I've been everywhere in the country, and this place is so different, and it's hard for people to really understand that. I understood that it was different, but I didn't quite pick apart until just the last few years. Um, one of the big
What Marketing Actually Works Here
SPEAKER_01differences is that we are far more than most other places relationship-driven. Business is done by relationships here. And that's really difficult for somebody that that came back to this market because I was away, um, that came back to this market with all the non-here experience trying to do things digitally like I was doing them everywhere else, right? And not understanding that okay, this isn't exactly working the same way. What is the deal? And that's where I finally cut this relationships more than you know, all the digital marketing efforts that you put in place, it's relationships that get it done.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, I agree with that. I agree with that.
SPEAKER_01So, what surprised you the most about running this business?
SPEAKER_02Oh, I what I think what surprises me the most about plumbing is just there, there's so many different fields of plumbing. Um like I said, you've got residential, commercial, you can go into the septic side of it and never even mess with the plumbing side of it. Um you know, the gas side of it is very mechanical. Yeah. So even there, um, yeah, that that's just the amount of different fields of plumbing you can do. Sure. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And and uh this being a a pretty significant rural market, there's a lot of septic and gas, like not city services that you hook up to, right? Right. So you don't necessarily have a gas line. You install a propane tank out there, lots of propane tank.
Why Rural Plumbing Gets Complicated
SPEAKER_01You know, if you don't have one, which you know, unless you've got new construction, there's a good chance if you're building in a semi-rural area that you're dealing with septic. So it might already be there, but if you don't, you've got to put that in. You can't just hook up to the yes.
SPEAKER_02And we we live in a little bit more challenging area for septics too, because we have a lot of rivers, a lot of high water table, that kind of thing, which you know takes an advanced treatment system. Right. Um so yeah, I mean, even in the area that we're at, it's more challenging.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, just all the the I don't I don't know septic, but like I have some consumer, limited consumer experience with septic, and there's you know things that you gotta deal with the leech line. Where is that going and how is it going? And runoff and soil composition. Yes, yeah, absolutely take in the ground and start dumping things in it, right? Right, absolutely not. No. What's what's um what part of the business has been the hardest to figure out?
SPEAKER_02Okay, yeah, easily the accounting side of it. Sure. Um, I'm not too computer savvy, yeah. So, you know, running any kind of Microsoft Excel or Office or anything like that. Quick booth. Right, yeah. Everything I do is, you know, on paper. Sure. So that's been a challenge for me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That one gets a lot of people. I mean, even me. I I know enough about accounting to get it done relatively okay. But then I hand it off to the CPA become tax time. Yep, fix all of my stuff.
SPEAKER_00So do I.
SPEAKER_01If you could solve one challenge in the business tomorrow, what would that be?
SPEAKER_02Oh well, I think right now our challenge like is getting getting our brand out.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_02Um, we are just now uh got a contract that we're doing with uh the doll
Paper Accounting And Real Stress
SPEAKER_02the dollar generals in New Mexico. So we're trying to get more statewide. Nice, not trying to stay so much just in Farmington, but trying to get out more statewide. And yeah.
SPEAKER_01Is that a normal I don't feel like that's a normal thing. I don't know though. Is that a normal thing for like local operators, local plumbers to branch outside of their local market?
SPEAKER_02Well, yeah. So like with the with the contract that I have is with the construction company out of Kentucky, they're not even local here, but they've got contracts to put up the dollar generals all over New Mexico. So instead of them having to find a plumber in every county, yeah, and get all these different bids and stuff, I've got kind of a deal set up with them. And so they just let me know, hey, we got one coming up over here, and I go down there and take care of it real quick. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So there's one per
Going Statewide With A Big Contract
SPEAKER_01state that's willing to travel throughout the state.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you have to be willing to travel. Yeah. Um, there's a lot of people that don't, you know. Some of them, some of these bigger box chain companies are already so established that they don't, you know. I'm sure they've got people that go out of the county and stuff, but sure.
SPEAKER_01And the bigger, so they don't necessarily need that business with they've got their market countered and figured out, and they don't need to add some things not in their normal business model. So yeah.
SPEAKER_02And that that's the challenge too, being the smaller company coming up here, you know. You got these bigger box companies that have been around, and some have got really good names, you know. So people are more willing to pay that little bit more money for the name. Right.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. There are things. Um uh I'm a champion for small businesses, right? For local businesses. And there are lots of things that you can do um to um compete with those things. It's not always about pricing and and and name recognition. Those things help. Well, the name recognition helps. Yes, very much. Um, you don't necessarily have to beat them on price, you don't necessarily have to do that. You just have to do what they're not able to do, and it makes it easier because you're smaller and way more nimble. You can change on a whim.
SPEAKER_02And that that is what uh makes us more is we're more flexible. Yeah. So we if you call us, we're liable to get out there a lot quicker than they are and get the job done faster.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So yeah, you just load up and go. They've got to start the machine.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01They've got to put it in the yes, get it in the system, get it assigned to a group. There you go.
SPEAKER_02And it goes through, you know, a couple channels before it even goes to the to the guy that's gonna go out and serve it.
SPEAKER_01Right. Yeah, that's brilliant. Um, where would you like the business to be in the next few years?
SPEAKER_02Um, well, again, we're pushing to go into the septic side of it full time. So that's really where I would like to see it go. Okay. Um, if we're doing nothing but septics in the next couple years, that'd be great. Sure. Yeah. Is it easier? Um it's probably more um less variation in the right, right. Yeah. There's so there's not, it's not as you don't have as much uh materials and different kinds of materials involved. It's pretty much all set. You you know what you're setting, they're all pretty much set the same way.
SPEAKER_01That kind of dealing with the site mechanics as far logistics as far as the ground goes.
SPEAKER_02Right. I mean, the the biggest process is is setting up the bid, or not the bid, but uh setting up your uh your permit, you know, because that's got to go through the environmental department, and so you gotta put a plan together and have it approved before you can even start doing the work.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Cool.
Beating Big Chains With Speed
SPEAKER_01Uh just a note, um, again, my consumer experience, we had to build a berm um past the end of our leech line um to make it acceptable. It was in Georgia, um, to make it acceptable. So is is that this is a totally different environment than of course Georgia. We were six feet above sea level at the edge of a swamp, and uh there's nothing even close to that here. So um we're kind of the exact opposite of that here. So is is are there circumstances where you would have to like berm things for a septic system?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it sounds like you're talking about an above-ground system. So a lot of systems you have to have so much earth between the water table and what's the drain or the pipe so that it'll filter out all the nitrogen and stuff. Um, so a lot of people will set up the berms and do an above-ground system and have it leaching like that so that you get that earth to filter out all that nitrogen before it hits the water. Right.
SPEAKER_01Yep. Okay. Yeah,
Septic Systems And Above-Ground Berms
SPEAKER_01ours was underground, but we were also in a well. We were just out of nowhere. So we had to keep that away, obviously, away from our wells. Yes, absolutely. You don't want that draining into your drinking water. No. No. Um, but it was kind of cool. He'd let us know, man, roses, uh, tomato plants, grow that on the berm, man. That's gonna go nutty.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it sounds like you were leaching into that berm. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um are there opportunities you see that you haven't been able to pursue yet? Oh. Not not yet, no. No, I don't really I mean you're kind of doing that now, right?
SPEAKER_02You're you're moving into septic and yeah, yeah, we're moving the direction that we want to go, yeah, which is good. Yeah, um okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_01If you if you had more time and resources, what would you focus on improving first? Ooh.
SPEAKER_02I would say just just my my our our logo, I guess. Not not so much our logo, our brand. Sure. Getting our brand out there more, um, getting the vehicles, all that stuff branded, you know, that kind of stuff. Yeah. Having more of a I don't know, a pop out there. Right.
SPEAKER_01So have you considered a wrap, like for your vehicles?
SPEAKER_02Um, yeah, we have. We have. We've we're getting we're getting there. It can get expensive, but right. So that's one thing.
SPEAKER_01The impact on that is massive.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and we started this business with no business loan, no nothing. We started from the ground up. So everything we've made, and and to be honest, I give all the glory to God.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So there you go. Yep. Nice. Um, what do you think makes doing business in this region unique? And now you're kind of branching
Branding, Vehicle Wraps, Visibility
SPEAKER_01out across the state. So, and you've been in area you've been doing it in Arizona, which is this is not that different from Arizona.
SPEAKER_02But it is that is what makes this area unique, though, is we're in the four corners, right? Right. So getting a Colorado license, getting a Utah license, getting an Arizona license and branching out to the states that are 45 minutes from here is also very amazing because that that opens up a whole nother avenue of opportunities. So absolutely, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that this is a unique area for that. I mean, you can very easily do business within four states in one day.
SPEAKER_02Yes, absolutely. Just driving your car. Yeah, yeah. I mean, 30, 45 minutes from each state.
SPEAKER_01So that's crazy. What what advice would you give somebody um starting a business here?
SPEAKER_02Ooh, my advice would be don't try to get too big too quick. Yeah.
Four Corners Licensing Advantage
SPEAKER_02That that's my advice. Just take your time, let let it build itself. Yeah. You know, and yeah, just take your time.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I've seen a couple of those scenarios play out where you know, big ambition, big push, big, you know, everything. And so they push it, push it, and essentially they're building a house of cards that they're standing on a card tower, and one little thing hits the bottom of that thing that's not short upright and it just all crumbles.
SPEAKER_02Yes, yes, and it crumbles. Yep.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, get a get a solid foundation.
SPEAKER_02There you go. Yeah, before you try to get too big, just yeah, get a solid foundation. I like that.
SPEAKER_01I'm a big fan of growth. So absolutely grow, but but you know, you gotta grow on something, and if it's shaky ground, that's not gonna be good in the future.
SPEAKER_02Yeah,
Advice: Grow Slow And Build Foundations
SPEAKER_02no, and and and I say that because when we first started, we did. We we grew quick and we took on a lot of stuff, and we I was more stressed out and running around doing not really work, but fixing other stuff because we were having enough time to train the guys before they were having to take on the task themselves, that kind of thing. So we ended up pulling all the way back, all the way back, and I've been doing it now with just me and a couple other guys for the last year or so, right? And we've got it where we're comfortable and where we like it, and system in place, and now we're ready to move forward and expand.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Just feel out all those things supply chain, um, personnel, um, logistics, yes, I mean, customer relationships, all of that stuff. Like if you just throw 50 of them on you in the first month of you doing business, you've just opened, opened for business, and all of a sudden, bam, 50 of these complicated clients. It's probably not gonna go well. But if you grow into 50 in one month, then you already know how what to expect. How to you've got the systems in place, you've got the supply chain issues worked out, you've got the logistics worked out, personnel worked out, all of the stuff worked out.
SPEAKER_02So we live in a challenging time where prices are fluctuating on materials and gas and all that so much that you have to be able to adjust with it. Yeah. Yeah. That's been challenging.
SPEAKER_01That's been are you adjusting pricing accordingly?
SPEAKER_02Or or yeah, we we well right now we've kind of got a set hourly price that we have. We bill out hourly rate. Right.
SPEAKER_01So and then you just adjust uh materials, right?
SPEAKER_02We yeah, if material prices go up, our bids are usually only good for a certain period of time because of that.
SPEAKER_01That's reasonable, and people I think are used to that, especially nowadays, right? Yeah, as fluctuations go in medias. Yes, yeah, most people understand. Yeah, yeah. What um is there a local business or businesses that you admire here?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I I really admire Triple Eagle Construction, man. They are a great company. Um, that's where I got my start. And uh yeah, nice. I like them. Very cool. Yep. I haven't heard their
Pricing Swings And Bid Time Limits
SPEAKER_02name pop up before, so that's awesome. Yeah, they're a great construction company, man.
SPEAKER_01Very cool. So looking ahead, like over the next year or two, what would success really look like for for you in this business?
SPEAKER_02Um, I think success for us would just be uh keeping a steady flow of work coming in, you know. Um staying on a solid pace. Yeah. Not not trying to do, not trying to overdo it, but not underdoing it either. So just staying on a solid pace would be successful for me.
SPEAKER_01Do you deal with the the normal? Is this is this a business that deals with the normal ebb and flow of like you have your your big season, you have your slow season, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it tends to get it changes usually in the winter. You got a little bit more work, seems to take a little longer, you know, ditches, that kind of thing to dig. You got frozen ground, yeah, frozen pipes, that kind of thing. So it is a lot of times it does pick up more in the wintertime. But it seems to be opposite for a lot of people. They seem to slow down in the winter and pick up in the summer.
SPEAKER_01So okay. So you get a trade-off. Yeah, you just change who you're doing business with. So, what do you think um will be the the biggest challenge in getting there to that success, that level of success, where you just really don't have to worry. You know the business is coming in, you know, all that kind of thing. You're on that steady, even keel of a path that you want to be on. What what do you think would be the biggest challenge in getting there or staying there?
SPEAKER_02Um, the biggest challenging is gonna be finding the right help. That's been one of my biggest challenging is finding employees that I can train that want to stick around. Right. Yeah, with the new generation coming up, not a lot of people are wanting to be plumbers. Sure. They're wanting to make their money on the computer. Sure. You know, on yeah, that I get it. I get it, but that's that's been the challenging part.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they're I think everybody's dealing with that issue in particular. Yeah. Um, do you require well, say, when you're looking for employees, do you require things like degrees or or anything like that?
SPEAKER_02Um no, most most of the people I've hired so far have just been just mainly labor hands. Um, gotcha. You know, using a shovel ain't really too hard to do, digging a ditch. Um you know, throwing some pipe in it usually ain't too hard either. Um, but there is when you want to get to like somebody
Hiring, Apprenticeships, Keeping Good People
SPEAKER_02that has a journeyman's, you know, or an MM1 and MM2, that kind of thing. That does take, you know, requires, you know, 8,500 hours of um apprenticeship, that kind of thing. So that again is the challenging part, finding somebody that you can train from the ground up, right, and keep them around, because a lot of people, once they get to that part, they're like, I got my license, I'm gonna start my own business, and there they go. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So maybe, maybe um, this is bad. I probably shouldn't say this. Maybe a little scare tactic training of like, look, this is what it takes to run this business.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, absolutely. Well, and a lot of guys too. That's been what uh, you know, the good thing with my employees that I see, and the guys that I've had that have stuck around is they do they're right there where they're getting those, and they don't, they're not wanting to leave because they understand they've seen me do this from the ground up and they've been here from the start, and so they they've seen what it's taken.
SPEAKER_01They're like, I'm glad you're just giving me a paycheck and I don't have to deal with all that. Yeah, yeah. There's a lot of times everybody got paid but me, you know. So yeah, the reason I asked that is because um you are in an industry that does require um uh licensing at certain levels, but but entry level, um, I wasn't sure if you had to require uh that sort of licensing or degree or or something like that. And a lot of times um people are so used to that model of you need a bachelor's degree or you know, whatever. Um and it cuts out a lot of people that are willing to work but don't have that degree, right? And some of those people may have the aptitude for that job. And so I always encourage people if the law doesn't require that these people have a degree, there is literally no reason for you to ask for it. It's just some kind of strange measure of they might know how to do this job, and that's how you measure that. So I I'm a big fan of cutting out the requirement of a degree and giving
Trades Without Degrees And Real Opportunity
SPEAKER_01people an apple aptitude test before you even interview them. Like everybody in the world can apply for this job, and guess what? Take this aptitude test, yeah, and then take the top scorers in the interview. I mean, that's perfect because then you get people that are like all of a sudden have some kind of hope like I don't have a degree, I I that pays well, and I could probably do that. I don't know, but I don't have a degree in it, and so I can't apply.
SPEAKER_02And that that's the thing about just being a a contractor, right? Or let's say an electrician or a plumber, is you can start with no degree, yeah, end up with a journeyman's, yeah, or an MM1 or something like that, and start your own business and make a very, very good living, yeah, you know, yeah, without any kind of degree at all. Right. That's that's uh I mean, that's what I like about it. That's a brilliant thing about trades. Yeah, because I didn't I didn't I got my GED, I dropped out of school, got my GED, and you know, I was young and wild, so yeah. Uh it wasn't trying to be a plumber when I was young.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So yeah, that's a brilliant thing about trades. I mean, I grew up in that, right? Well, I I had both sides of the coin, I guess that was a good environment. My grandfather was an engineer with um El Casa Natural Gas. My father was a welder in an independent welder in the in the oil field. So he just had his own truck and he did his own thing. And yeah, so I watched a business owner, a solo business owner, figure it out. And and he he used to mispronounce words, you know, when we were kids, he would say certain things wrong, and so we were kids and we're in school, and so we would you know laugh at him for that kind of thing, and he didn't have any college education or anything like that. That he was making great money, right? That's the thing about trades, is you don't have to have a college education. You could, if need be, go to a trade school or something, you know, and it's a lot cheaper, it's a lot less time involved in the city. Absolutely like making bank that's brilliant.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. More people need to look at trades. They do, they do, and you have to compare it.
SPEAKER_01Get hold of Jason, he might be hiring. Yes, yes, man. Um, we're gonna wrap up here. It's been awesome chatting with you, but I've got kind of a lightning round, so I'm gonna toss these out at you. It's the first thing that comes in your head, which is just spit it out. Um favorite local restaurant. Five guys, huh? Best business advice you've received. Steady pace. Oh, that's brilliant. That's brilliant. Well, um, one thing customers might not know about your business. You have amazing dogs. There we go. Yes. I got to meet you, puppies, and that makes me very happy. Well, brilliant, man. Thanks for coming on the show. This is great.
SPEAKER_02I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_01I never met you before today, so yeah, yeah, it was good meeting you. Yeah, there's no going back now, man. I know we are. No, sir. Yes, sir.
SPEAKER_02Thanks a lot. Thank you.
