How A Third Generation Owner Keeps A Small Town Hardware Store Thriving

A hardware store that’s lasted since 1946 has to be more than a place to grab a bolt. Sitting down with Evan Noel of Noel's Inc. in Farmington, New Mexico, we get into the real reason certain small businesses become permanent fixtures in the Four Corners: they earn trust one customer at a time, then protect it with consistency. Evan shares how he grew from working in the store as a teenager to leading a third generation, family-owned hardware business built on advice, problem solving, and relationships that span decades.

We talk candidly about what modern retail feels like from the owner’s seat: customers who want expert help but also want the lowest possible price, the constant pressure from online shopping, and why word of mouth still matters in a relationship-driven community. Evan explains why being out on the floor matters for leadership, how customer service becomes a competitive edge against big box stores, and what it takes to sell solutions across a huge product mix that ranges from industrial supplies to homeowner tools.

Then we go behind the scenes into operations and growth. Evan breaks down the time sink of paperwork, ordering, payroll, benefits, and compliance, plus the pain and payoff of switching ERP software to support better logistics and distribution. We also dig into a challenge many small retailers recognize instantly: major brands often hold the power on margins and support, and small businesses have to fight to be heard. The conversation closes with what success looks like next, including employee retention, sustainable growth, and expanding distribution beyond San Juan County and the Rockies region.

If you care about small business, customer experience, leadership, or the future of local retail in Farmington and the Four Corners, this one is packed with practical insight. Subscribe, share this with a business owner you respect, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway.

Be sure to follow or subscribe!  And, if you're a local business owner who'd like to be featured - or know someone whose story should be told - get in touch at Ken@StrategicHorizonsConsulting.com

This show is brought to you by Strategic Horizons Consulting (a division of Ken Collins Marketing).

Transcript

Meet A Four Corners Fixture

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Evan Knoll is the co-owner of Knowles Inc., a family-owned hardware store in Farmington that's been serving the Four Corners community since 1946. Started by his dad, Evan now runs the business alongside his father Greg, a true family operation that's nearly eight decades strong. But here's what makes Knowles special. They're not just a hardware store, they're the kind of place where locals grab a bolt or ask advice, where generations of families have trusted them to get the job done right. With a 4.6 star rating and a team of 15 to 20 employees, Evan has kept that small town feel while scaling a business that's been a community staple since the Truman administration. Evan, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. Yeah. So um I know your your dad started this. What what was there something that inspired you to get involved in it?

SPEAKER_02 0:55

Or is that so actually my grandfather started this back in 1946? Uh he started it with a partner. It was called Knowles and Cousins back then. Um, and so then they were originally a Main Street store, uh, your typical Main Street hardware store from the 50s. And then they uh they moved down here, uh this part of town in 1972, and that's when we started doing more of the industrial side as well.

SPEAKER_03 1:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:24

But uh my dad started at the Main Street store sweeping and doing all that. Um I did work here probably when I was about 14, is when I started, and that was actually um I had gotten in trouble because uh I parents were out of town and I threw a little party, and so to pay my father back, I had to actually work at the store and he took my paycheck. Um worked here for a couple years and then uh went on with my own life, you know, went through high school, things like that, had some other jobs, and then I came back, it was probably about 22, uh maybe 23 years old. And uh my original plan for coming back was so I could uh finish up some schooling and move on into another field, but just after being here so long, I kind of took to it, changed my degree to a business degree, and I've been here over 20 years now. Wow. Yeah, quite a while.

SPEAKER_00 2:30

Very cool, yeah. So when when you took over like those the that first year or so, like what was the early days like? When I first took over.

SPEAKER_02 2:40

Um so uh like before I really took over, there was uh my father and my aunt were running it, and I was kind of more in say like day-to-day logistics, uh, some of the hiring, a little bit of the firing and things like that, but nothing too serious. And there was a little bit of mentorship in terms of filling out government compliance forms and and all that. So um around 2020 is when I really started taking a lot more. That's when my aunt retired, uh, took on more of the payroll operations, um, 401k and things like that. It wasn't too much of a change as far as that's concerned. Uh, just a little more freedom to do more things I wanted to do on the front end, you know, rearrange the store, remodel, yeah, uh, change some employees out and things like that. So kind of a slow process of just getting to where I'm at now. So really just a good slow buildup. And you've got your dad around the driver. He actually just retired this year. Okay. Yeah. He um he was looking at it at the end of the year, um, 2025, and then he he actually had a heart attack in uh the beginning of March.

SPEAKER_01 4:08

This year. Yeah. This year.

SPEAKER_02 4:10

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:10

And it wasn't too bad of a heart attack. He, you know, he was on his feet the next day and everything, thankfully. But uh that kind of just made sure that's where he was going. And so he's retired, and I've been basically in control for the last few months with no no oversight. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:28

I'm glad he's okay. Yeah, yeah. Man, yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, crazy times. It's one of those alarm bells, right? Uh for him that, yeah, okay, I'm done.

SPEAKER_02 4:38

There's things that things he was been wanting to do that he hasn't had time to take care of, or yeah, you know, put on the back burner and now he's doing it. So it's good.

SPEAKER_00 4:46

Yeah. If you could go back when you first decided, like, okay, this is my thing, this is what I'm gonna do. Um, and tell yourself one thing, what would that be?

SPEAKER_02 4:58

Oh gosh. There's a lot of things I'd like to tell myself. Um I I guess prepping for the future, which

From Teen Trouble To Ownership

SPEAKER_02 5:10

you know, to be sure to prep for the future. I feel like I've done that, but not as much as you know, I'm looking, always kind of looking like three, five years ahead, but really five, ten, fifteen years. Yeah. Um, I wish I could go back and warn myself about the COVID years, you know, that'd be great. But yeah, just just uh foresight even more so uh 10 years, 20 years out would be you know, always be looking for that. Don't don't get short-sighted. Sure. Yeah. Yeah, I think all the young people, younger people are in that same boat. It it's hard to think, Pat. You know, I'm I'm 43 now. Yeah. And gosh, 16, 18, 20 years old in those ages. I it's hard to imagine even being 30. You know, and I was quite the troublemaker as a youth, and to be where I'm at now, I I couldn't even imagine back then. Yeah. Could not even imagine. Yeah. So wow.

SPEAKER_00 6:12

What's um what's what's a typical day look like?

SPEAKER_02 6:17

Uh typical day of work is is pretty standard, honestly. Um come in, open up, you kind of start with greeting customers. Um, the morning schedule's pretty light. Uh, then I, you know, it's it's paperwork and logistics, a couple meetings with teams, making sure each uh different department is is on the same page. Um that'll usually get me around to lunch. And then a little more of the same. There's there's uh working with customers here and there. It it is important as a small business to make sure that as the you know face of the business you are actually facing your customers. Um, I think it's important for your employees too, because you know, they they definitely feed off of you. You know, if if I get in a lull over time, I can start to see it in my employees. So I try to make sure that you know I'm up uh expressing my energy, gratitude with the customers, taking time with them. So employees do that too. But that that's pretty much it. It's it's pretty standard. We don't do anything crazy, we're not open super late. Um, I you know, this this time of year, the beginning of each year, I'll see a lot of uh, you know, filings and forms and taxes and stuff like that. But for the most part, it's it's just pushing paperwork, make employees where they need to be.

SPEAKER_00 7:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:47

Yeah, I I agree that is important for a business owner to be front and center at least part of the time. Because um then it's not you telling your employees what to do or what needs to be done, and it's not them reporting issues back to you. Um it's it's you showing them how to do the things that need to be done. Um so they get to see that you're not quote unquote above doing this, right? So they get to see that that uh you're part of the, you know, you're in the team, the same team that they're on. Exactly. And then also your um your firsthand knowledge of any kind of customer issues that might pop up or how people react to certain things or or whatever. So it it gives you firsthand knowledge through your own filter instead of an employee's filter that's telling you that might not be exactly how things would be.

SPEAKER_02 8:48

You you definitely can't be afraid to pick up a mop or to take out the trash. But being out and with your customers, with your team, you you get an idea of what they're going through. So if you if you are planning on making a change, you don't make a change that that's really gonna end up hurting them, right? Or hurting your business, hurting your team, or uh, you know, if something comes up later, you know, a week later, a month later, it's more likely that I'm gonna already be aware of it. And so I'm not behind the eight ball trying to figure out what's going on. Right. But spending time with the team really helps with that um a lot. You know, a customer comes up, they ask for the manager. If you already know about it, it saves you a lot of time, and you can actually, you know, get your customer back to where you need to be instead of, oh, let me see what I gotta do. And then that frustrates your customer more. Yeah, just yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:41

Is there a part of the business that takes the most time and energy?

SPEAKER_02 9:45

Paperwork on all sides, you know, between orders and uh ordering, uh fulfilling your orders, making sure things are correct and built out properly. That is one of the biggest ones for sure. Uh what you do with or for your employees, you know, whether it's payroll, 401k, their time off, that that's probably the next thing I would say.

SPEAKER_00 10:12

Yeah.

unknown 10:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:13

For all that paperwork and stuff, do you have like systems that yeah, yeah, we use our our own ERP.

SPEAKER_02 10:19

We actually changed our ERP uh a few years ago. Um, and that's always a struggle, especially if you have an older team, which my team's gotten younger over the last few years, but um, you know, when someone's used to using a certain computer program for sales, whenever you change it, it's always a nightmare. Uh especially in the initial phase. Probably that first year was uh very difficult on everybody, but harder on the people that have been here the longest. My dad being one of them, you know, you you just get used to it. It's muscle memory and everything. Um, but the one of the issues we face, and kind of why I went to this, is you know, obviously online versus brick and mortar, and we have a little bit online, and you even if you are just a brick and mortar, you have to have a you know a some kind of an online face. You your customers are still gonna search for you online even if you don't sell anything there. And this ERP that we went to is meant to help with that further distribution, be able to sell things outside of our area, not just in our area. Cool.

SPEAKER_01 11:28

So, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:29

So, how do people generally find you? Uh we've been in the community a long time, so there's a lot of word of mouth. Uh, a lot of people that will come in and you know, they they'll say something like, I used to come in here with my dad or my grandpa and buy things, and that's always comforting. But of course, in this new age, you know, there's there's Facebook, there's we have our own online page. We feature some of our products on there, not everything that we carry. Um trying to think. We've done some of the social media stuff before, but personally speaking, I'm not a big fan, and I try to stay away from social media. I don't feel it's yeah, super positive for mental health, mixed emotions over social media can be very uh back or forth for sure. But um mainly our online page and the Facebook. Um we try to participate within the community, donations and and things like that. You know, I work with the River Reach Foundation as well. That's kind of more of a personal thing on my side, but but being involved

Taking The Wheel After Retirement

SPEAKER_02 12:30

within the community helps because you just you know, you get that opportunity to meet with other members of the community and that spreads word of mouth. But uh try for the most part, my my real focus outside of the online space is making sure that the customers are here are happy because word of mouth with a happy customer is always the best way to everyone.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

So yeah, yeah. Yeah, word of mouth is is pretty massive, especially in this area. I mean, it's it's always a thing, no matter where you are, but this area seems to be a lot more weighted relationships than than other types of things. And so um, but it is slowly changing, just like everything else. I mean, we just usually change about 20 years later than other places, yes. So um it is slowly changing. But I'm remembering some of those things, like um, you know, doing shout-outs here, but salmon's. I mean, I oh yeah, when I moved back here, I couldn't believe they were still open. Yeah, in this day and age. It's crazy. How are they still open?

SPEAKER_02 13:36

And rain jobs, of course, they just closed, but uh well, and they had sold, and that whole business model changed and they turned into something else. And yeah, it's something it it's interesting. You know, we're a business that relies a lot on service, you know, not just right selling a product, but what we do with the products that we sell, and obviously the customer service. You know, someone walks into my store, they they're not just necessarily walking around, they're asking for help. Yeah, and that's really important to have. All a first-time customer comes in here, they can be a little lost, they're not really sure what it, you know, it carries so much on an industrial side, and then so much for your commercial or homeowner. And being able to engage with that customer, making sure that my employees can actually give them a hand, that leads to the growth with that customer and having them return. But a first-time customer comes in here, maybe they find the one thing they're looking for and they check out, it's less likely that I'll see them again, at least in any short time frame.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

Sure. Yeah. I think that's um that's one of the factors that make small businesses competitive with larger businesses. Because, you know, you can go into some big box store somewhere and get stuff. Um, but when you're in that situation where you're not exactly sure what you need, or you think you know what you need, and and then you're explaining it, and somebody steps up and goes, dude, no, put that back. You don't that that's the wrong thing. You don't need that. Yeah, you need this right here. This is why. That sort of thing um is pretty rare in big box stores.

SPEAKER_02 15:21

Very rare. And even the the willingness of those employees to help you at those stores. The the biggest problem I see with a lot of that is we'll get customers that'll come in to answer those questions, and then maybe they're still looking to buy the product online. You know, they're looking at this versus that, get a recommendation, and then they purchase it online. Or, you know, some people that they'll come into a store like this, and the the first expectation is that level of customer service, but then they want that same bottom price. And the price can be competitive, but you know, especially in this economy, people are looking to save pennies over dollars. And, you know, if if they know they can still get something from somewhere else, whether it's online or a larger box store, and they're saving, you know, 50 cents to a dollar, sometimes that's worth it. And I can't blame anyone for that, but yeah, it's another challenge that you have because they're not expected to provide the customer service, right? And they can give it to you cheaper, but I'm expected to offer the same price with the same level of customer services as a small business. And that that's a challenge, and you have to you have to work really hard with a customer to get that across without sounding arrogant or you know, putting like you're pushing an agenda, and it's obviously it's hard for me as a small business owner because it is an agenda. So right, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:49

Yeah, it's hard with it definitely is, but you need it to not sound like it is. Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 16:55

Yeah, and you don't want to be beggy or pushy, but you definitely have to relate that. So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:01

Wow. Um what surprised you most about running running the business?

SPEAKER_02 17:10

Um probably like my own expectations, uh, especially over the years, you know, there's you know, I'm obviously what you put into it, you get out, but you have to be careful about, you know, you're never gonna get, you know, an employee's never gonna care about your business like you do. Right. Or you're never, you know, you might have a great year one year and a down year another, regardless of how much work you put into it. And you know, curbing what those expectations are, it's it's it's difficult, especially when you put a lot into it, a lot of time. You know, I used to have a lot more hair. Uh, you know, and it's it's difficult. So like the expectations, you know, regardless of of what I do, I can't necessarily control everything.

SPEAKER_01 17:59

And yeah, that that's the biggest surprise.

SPEAKER_02 18:02

Because you especially when you're younger, it and you really start to figure out and you really start to work harder, you you start to see some of the fruits of that. And when you you know, you get older, sometimes you get a stomach punch here and there, and you see that it's not always gonna work out that way. And you have to plan for it, you know, it's planning ahead and things like that. But uh it's hard. That's hard to, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:29

Dealing with the ebbs and flows and yeah, trying to normalize that in your head um to an extent because you don't want to completely normalize it and just think, well, that's the way it is. Yeah, you know, so it yeah, you're this tug of war inside yourself constantly. Exactly. Yeah. Um, it what part of the business was like just the hardest to figure out?

SPEAKER_02 18:54

We do a lot here. Uh we're we're fairly diverse. Um, so we we do a lot industrial side, so we deal with the power plants and the oil filled, and that's a lot of gases and welding, and then we have uh power equipment like chainsaws, lawnmowers, rototillars, and things like that. And there are all manners of things in between. And for me, the hardest thing is is learning enough of each aspect of that to feel confident to sell it to somebody. You know, there's there's definitely things that were complicated, you know, in terms of like HR or government paperwork and and things like that. But really, you know, if you're you work at a coffee shop, understand coffee's not so bad. You sell stuff at Best Buy, working with electronics, there's a certain groove you're gonna have. But with the difference in product offerings that we have and in having to actually sell that with the customer face to face, actually having enough knowledge of each product, each brand, the changes that come over time, it that's definitely the hardest.

SPEAKER_00 20:09

Right. Yeah. Yeah, because then you're you're the the more effective thing is to sell people solutions, not products. So you don't know the solution if you don't know the products. Very much it's a thing. They say they want this thing, okay. I'll sell you that thing. Right. Um, but if you're if you truly under that understand that thing, then you can there's advice around it, there's how to use it, there's things to watch out for, there's the pitfalls, maybe. There's all that stuff. There's well, maybe that's not exactly the right thing you need. Maybe it's

The Grind Of Operations And Systems

SPEAKER_00 20:40

this thing over here, and here's why. And so yeah, that kind of knowledge does take a while to accumulate.

SPEAKER_02 20:46

And there's uh in different industries, there's different nicknames for tools. And so you have to know enough about the product that you carry to be able to understand when someone's asking for something, what they're you know, someone will ask for something that we've never heard before. Usually the first question is, well, what are you using it for? What are you wanting to do? You can get a better idea. There's some terms, especially in the industrial world, that you know, I don't know, the language is a little colorful. Sure. And you know, the first time you hear that, you think someone's just cussing at you. But in actuality, it's it's a tool or you know, some kind of equipment that they use every day. And when they ask for it, they expect you to know that. Right. So it can be very difficult. Very difficult. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:33

Pick it up. Industrial slang from several industries. Yes, yeah, yes, yeah. If you could solve one challenge in the business tomorrow, what would that be?

SPEAKER_02 21:48

Oh gosh, one challenge. There, I mean a lot of what I've dealt with recently, there's there's a lot. Of governmental issues, but I don't think I could ever solve that, even with the magic wand. Um, probably one of the things that I have the most issue with at the time is is a lot of the major brands that we deal with, you know, having them is a privilege being able to offer those products and sell them. But what those major brands do for a company like mine, where I'm smaller, I don't have as much purchasing power and things like that. So uh the support, the margins on the products we sell, the just being able to communicate with them is very difficult. So that's one thing I'd like to change. Either uh making it so major brands didn't have as much power as they do, or giving uh more common sense to those CFOs and CEOs of those companies, and you know, allowing them to work with us in a in a better sense. I I guess that would be the best.

SPEAKER_00 23:02

Yeah. I was just uh running through all kinds, it's a thing I do, it's non-stop ideas whenever I'm talking to somebody. Um there are people, smaller operators that um get these companies to just give them stuff, right? And they're it's because they're creators and they have an audience and whatnot. And so I was thinking, I wonder how valid that would be for you to create an audience, be the advice guy in this kind of arena.

SPEAKER_02 23:34

Like it, like I said earlier, I'm not a big social media guy. We've looked at it, and that's something you know, with any business, it it takes a lot of care and attention. And if you're not into social media, it's difficult. Um we do, we've seen it. Uh we actually were working with a major brand and a uh content creator on a issue that he's had. He bought a product, it didn't work, and then they're being very helpful to him. And in all honesty, it I almost feel as if they're being more helpful with this content creator than they are with me as a as a provider of their product. It's kind of interesting to see that stuff.

SPEAKER_00 24:12

That's what I'm saying, because I've seen that over and over, and um because the that brand understands the the reach that this person's gonna have in relation to their brand. So they need to make sure that that happens in the right way. Free advertising or word of mouthers. So when it's just I'm doing air quotes here, just a retailer.

SPEAKER_02 24:39

I mean, and then it's something, you know, like as a small business, you'd try to treat all your customers the same. It's you know, it's impossible to do, but you try to. Yeah. And you would like to see that from a major brand as well. But yeah, it's always the the bigger dollar signs or the most voices, of course. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:59

There's probably some people in the bigger brand company that feel that way, but the rest of everybody is just employees collecting a paycheck, doing a job, and so there is no passion there. It's yeah, it's the thing I do, and some of them are better at it than others, and yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:15

Money's money's almost always the driver. Yeah. Almost always.

SPEAKER_00 25:19

Yeah. Where where would you like Knowles to be in the next few years?

SPEAKER_02 25:24

Few years. Uh so you know, since I've started taking over operations and then in the last five years actually being in control, my main focus has been um expansion of distribution um outside of our general area. We do do uh we have uh we own another business that we do some wholesaling on some leather goods, and we do pretty well with that. It's it's nothing major, but uh we distribute kind I want to I like to always say like within the Rockies region, Wyoming, uh Colorado, Arizona, Utah, uh uh parts of Texas, New Mexico, and want to expand what that distribution is. It's been kind of narrow-sided in terms of what we offer and how we operate within that. And part of the change in software and what I've been working through over the past real focus, the last five years or so, has been to to increase what that is.

SPEAKER_00 26:24

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Very cool. Um, are there are there opportunities that you see that you haven't been able to pursue yet?

SPEAKER_02 26:36

That's probably the biggest one is is expansion outside of our general, so you know, San Juan County and and it's, you know, I like to call Four Corners its own state. You know, there's definitely parts within the Four Corners that, you know, Four Farmington's kind of the hub of the major city of what the Four Corners is, as small of a, you know, as many rural communities are within that area. And, you know, we do pretty well inside of that, but definitely expansion outside of what that is. Regional, national, if I were to get lucky, I don't see that in three years, maybe a little bit, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:12

Don't shut it down before you drive. Uh if it happens, it happens.

SPEAKER_02 27:16

I'm always open to possibilities.

SPEAKER_00 27:19

If you if you had more time or resources, what would you focus on improving first?

SPEAKER_02 27:26

Uh probably more so logistics with time and money, logistics, that kind of thing. I'd uh, you know, how we operate, find it's basically what I've been doing the last two years is refining what that is, um, cutting the fat, so to speak, where are we losing money? Where do we can we gain money? Um, and then just that what that presence is in the the distribution side. Uh how can we get things out to customers better? How can we get our face in into customers, the the businesses we deal with, so on.

SPEAKER_00 28:00

Yeah, yeah. Cool. Yeah. Well, um, what do you think makes doing business here? You mentioned like kind of consider the four corners its own state. Yeah um, and that's kind of true. And so even though it's crossing the borders of three other states, it's kind of its own thing. Um, so besides that, maybe including that, what do you think make makes doing business here so unique?

SPEAKER_02 28:28

Uh to me, it's that, you know, it's its own area, obviously the four corners, and then you it bleeds out into some more the Navajo Nation, Hickoria Reservation, Apache. Uh, you have the Durango area, what's coming in from Utah? There's there's so many different people here. And then we have uh the coal and the power plants and the oil field, and then you have some manufacturing that's here, and uh then there's you know, you wouldn't think it living in the high plains desert that there's so much for landscapers, and you know, there's there's really a very it's very diverse here. And the one cus you know, you deal with one customer, the next customer could be completely different. You could go from uh trying to speak Navajo with a customer and get them something as simple as a chain for a chainsaw, and then all of a sudden you're dealing with the foreman of a power plant and trying to figure out a five-10, thousand dollar order or something like that, and all manners in between. Uh like one of my favorite customers recently, it was uh a single woman, a little older. Uh, she's researching lawnmowers, and she was in here trying to figure out which one she wanted, and she she thought she knew when she got here, and she had seen so many different things, but then when she was actually here and started talking to about and talking about this completely different, but she was a a customer that isn't quite my client base, not our real customer we see every day. Sure. Um, we

Service, Pricing Pressure, And Product Know How

SPEAKER_02 30:10

definitely have them, but not as many. And it's nice to help someone like that and and have them see what you bring to the table. Yeah. So but that that's definitely one of the the most unique things in our areas. There's just there's not this one type of customer you're gonna deal with. There's there's a lot of different kinds of people here.

SPEAKER_00 30:32

So that's kind of touch-in um on a on an earlier point when we're talking about um you know being being out there and dealing with customers and and whatnot, and and maybe they come in here to get the customer service that they're not getting at a box store and then leave and go get the cheaper price somewhere. Um but there's there's still some benefit in that.

SPEAKER_02 31:01

Do you do you think? Like oh, there definitely can be. Uh obviously it's how we approach that customer. Yeah. Um, if we you know talk to them for a couple minutes and we get the idea that they're just here to ask questions and leave, and we let that happen, then you're you're not gonna get any benefit out of it. But if you talk to them for a couple minutes and you see that's gonna happen, but you you're still trying, you're still being as helpful as you would be with someone that you were used to seeing all the time, or you knew they were gonna spend the money anyway, then you know, they're gonna remember you when they go to make another purchase, or they're gonna remember you when one of their other friends is talking about making some kind of similar purchase, or you know, yeah. It helps with that word of mouth, essentially. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:48

That's what I was thinking, is that um I don't remember who was telling that story, but talking to uh I think it was Mercedes, like the Mercedes CEO or something way back, and talking about all the commercials and like, dude, this seriously, what are the commercials about? I mean, because when I'm ready to buy a car, I have an idea of a maybe a couple few different cars that I want, and your commercial isn't swaying me at all. Like it's not. And and the guy told him, Yeah, that commercial is not for you, it's for that kid. The kid, the teenager, the 12-year-old or whatever that is just starting to kind of understand things and like sees a commercial about this like swanky car and starts building this dream in his head that, oh, when I get older, I'm gonna get a job and get enough money to drive that car. That's when I will have made it. I'm gonna drive that car. So yeah, we're showing that commercial to that kid over 10, 20 years.

SPEAKER_02 32:54

Planting a seed.

SPEAKER_00 32:55

Yeah, to to to grow an idea in their head. And so I try to apply that sort of knowledge to other things. I mean, that doesn't directly apply to you, but but um for someone that comes in looking for advice and then goes somewhere and buys something, um a little piece of them is gonna remember that, and maybe a time comes up later that they are not sure again. So they think, well, actually, these guys were awesome here, so I'm gonna pop in there again and get some advice. And then maybe they also leave and go buy it somewhere else again. But that third time, or the fourth time, or the fifth time, or they tell their friends, like you were saying, they tell you, yeah, dude, go talk to Elvin, man, he'll like hook you up. And and not all of them are gonna leave and go somewhere else. But in the meantime, that that uh that idea is spreading that like you have the answers. Because the other guys that you're getting that's offering the cheap price, it's cheap because they don't have any answers.

SPEAKER_02 33:52

Right. Yeah. Well, that's and that's where consistency comes in to me. Because if you're helpful the first or even the second time, but then you're not so much on the third time, then you've you know you've wasted those first two opportunities. Yeah. And now with like box stores, the consistency is the not getting help or what you just it's gonna be cheap. That's fine. They'll take it back whenever everything's fine. It's it's okay. Right. That's what it's what I'm used to.

SPEAKER_00 34:18

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What what advice would you give um someone starting a business here?

SPEAKER_02 34:26

They're have a good idea. It's this very difficult economy, not just you know, with everything going on worldwide, but in our own community, what what's happening, what's changing, where are you really going? Uh if you were gonna start a business here, one location, that would be the probably the biggest thing. Because this, you know, Farmington in and of itself, it's so polarized between the east and the west side. What are you know, yeah, what business are you gonna be starting, and where are you gonna put that? That's probably the most important. And then staff is probably the next one. Staff is difficult, probably anywhere you are, but it it can be especially difficult here, I think. Yeah, there's there's people that don't want to work, don't want to come in for interviews, and then there's um you know, there's different expectations for employees, older or younger. You know, people, I think, especially over the last few years, they they really want to live their own life regardless of what their job is, and you have to be aware of that. Yeah. And you have to be willing to concede on some of that. You can't expect someone to work themselves to the bone for you anymore, which I I don't expect that. I would never have expected that. But there's you know, people in the the retiring age that they don't see that anymore and they complain about it. And I get part of that complaint, especially as a business owner, but the way the world has changed, you you just can't expect people to do that anymore. So find you a good employee.

SPEAKER_00 36:04

Yeah. I've been seeing sort of a uh a very slow-paced tug of war, right? So, so if you if you want to like etch it out per generation, like the baby boomers, they were the ones that they were gonna be loyal to their employer. And so they're gonna stick around for as long as their employer will let them stick around. Yeah, hopefully they'll get a retirement. And those and that was actually more prevalent back then, a retirement from your employer and whatnot. And then you know, my generation came along, Gen X, and we were figuring out, yeah, no, I don't like that, I don't like that system. I don't like, I'm I'm not gonna die for this employer because they're not loyal to me. I'm not gonna be.

SPEAKER_02 36:51

You can be as loyal as you can, and they're still gonna. I had uh uh my sister-in-law worked for years for a company, and they just they came up with a ridiculous reason to get rid of her so they could, you know, save some money.

SPEAKER_00 37:06

I I because I was I was actually part of part of that's happened to me. I was laid off and and it it's where layoffs and in the baby boomer era, yeah, that was a really taboo subject. You did not want to be in the news as a company who was laying people off. Um, but now well, actually years ago, at least 20 years ago, it was it became a a management technique. Yep. It was, you know, you lay people off when things slow down, you hire them back when things pick up. It's just a management technique.

SPEAKER_02 37:35

And so there's one company that's the most appalling, they're a larger, probably a global brand, I won't name them, but they their CEO literally fired like 20,000 employees, factory workers, so that he could get a bonus.

SPEAKER_00 37:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:51

And I mean that's probably commonplace now, but it's it's just crazy to me that you would sacrifice the well well-being of all these people just so you could buy an extra car, a boat, or get, you know, whatever it is. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:05

Yeah. Insane. It is insane. Um, is there a local business that here that you admire?

SPEAKER_02 38:14

That I admire. Yeah. Uh there's probably a few. Um being a uh decent-sized gentleman, I like a lot of the the restaurants around here. Uh, you know, Dona Maria's, uh Francesca's the Mexican restaurants, uh Los Rios, the owner there, uh Gabe Metamoris. He is a great guy, great guy. Uh Sam from uh Los Hermanitos, Sam Gonzalez, uh great business. They they struggled a lot through COVID and and all that, but he's still going and he's turning that over to his kids. Um anything in outside of the the first generation, I always admired, you know, I'm third generation and I see the problems that you get from that. Uh there's a we call them kind of like a a sister company. We're not related or anything, but Deweys Tool is similar business, but uh they're in their second to I don't know if they'll be looking at a third generation, but you know, they've had that a lot of same struggles and things, and they're still going. Um trying to think any other.

Growth Plans, Hiring Reality, And Success

SPEAKER_02 39:30

I mean, there's quite a few that have done a lot here. There's a lot of small businesses in our community that have done a lot of things. And I feel feel like I'm leaving plenty on the table. But those are a few.

SPEAKER_00 39:42

Cool. Yeah. Yeah. Gabe is one that um when I w because I like hot food. Oh, when I want hot food, I can actually get it there. Yeah, it's everything is you know, the average person can't deal with the amount of heat that I want, and so things come way closer to average. No, you'll get it. And I go to a restaurant and I want hot, and they're like, okay, this this is be careful. And I'm going, really though? It's like that's not hot. But yeah, I can get it there. Yeah, no, this food's great. Yeah, I love it. Good stuff. Um so looking over, we're gonna start wrapping up here, but looking over um the next year or two, what would success really look like for Knowles?

SPEAKER_02 40:31

Uh probably the first for me is employee retention and being able to do more for employees, uh, you know, family-owned business. There's people that you know my dad worked here for 50 years, and there are employees that worked here almost as long. Uh, another employee had retired just last year. He'd been here probably he was like in his early 20s, and you know, he's like, I want to say he was like 70 when he retired. Yeah, I've got two other employees right now who together, I want to say they're uh probably at about 60, 65 years of employment here. Um I've been here for 23, 24 years, but I have, oh gosh, three employees outside of those other. So five probably employees total that have been here longer than I have. Yeah. Um, and uh I like that. I like building a good atmosphere for my employees to work in where they feel like they can come to work and be happy and I don't have to worry about what's going on at home because they're taking care of, you know, small business. Like there's not a lot I can do, but being able to take care of them uh is definitely one of the things. Um, some growth. I'm I'm not concerned. I'm not trying to be Jeff Bezos or you know, anything like that, but uh definitely some some kind of growth, subs uh sustainable growth in within the company. So I know 10 years from now everything is looking good. Yeah. So awesome.

SPEAKER_00 42:08

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, um we just we just touched on that, right? The the change from loyal employees who may have just been abused and still stayed loyal to the change of mindset right now that that no, I'm not gonna be lawyer loyal loyal to an employer um because they're not loyal to me. Right. So in that world that we're in, it's easier for you to do as a small business owner to to make your employees feel like you actually care about them and their lives. Yeah, and that's gotta have an impact because they could leave and go somewhere else, but then that employer is not gonna care about them like at all. True.

SPEAKER_02 42:53

I've had many an employee leave for more money, which I don't blame them one bit. And I've had some of the good ones come back because they know the difference. You know, they can take off when their kid's sick or they got a soccer game or whatever it is. And you know, obviously money's important, especially these days, but but being able to spend that time with your family or take care of yourself when you need to, they do respect that.

SPEAKER_00 43:19

So and money's only actually one aspect of a whole bunch of aspects that play a part in that. So it's not always the thing. You don't always have to outpay your employees compared to someone else to to get them to stick around because of just an environment and you know just that's the hope. That thing. That's the hope. Um, I've been doing this thing, so we're we're we're gonna do a lightning round. Okay. First thing that pops off the top of your head, and then we'll then we'll call it good.

SPEAKER_01 43:52

I'll try to be quick.

SPEAKER_00 43:53

Um you've actually listed several favorite local restaurant.

SPEAKER_02 43:58

Oh, favorite local. Uh I honestly it's actually teriyaki chicken combo. That's my favorite. Uh best business advice you've received. Uh there's two. One is get it in writing, and uh one is get it in writing, two, uh, you know, you it's still gonna be there. It's still gonna be there.

SPEAKER_00 44:20

Yeah. One thing customers might not know about your business.

SPEAKER_02 44:25

Uh we offer a wealth of products that aren't just industrial. We oh actually, probably the best one is that we've been in ace hardware forever. We were ace before the ace that's here. Right. Um, and I have I'm not branded as an ace, but I offer most anything that an ace hardware can get you. So that's a nice one that not a lot of people know.

SPEAKER_00 44:51

Dan, yeah. Too bad you can't put that on the tagline.

SPEAKER_02 44:56

I I say it every once in a while when it comes up. You know, we have things with the ace brand, and people, oh, did you get this from Ace? No, we're an ace, and I like to say we were Ace before it was cool. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Awesome.

SPEAKER_00 45:10

Well, cool, man. Thanks for coming on the show and chatting with me. Thanks for having me. It's fun. So yeah. I don't come down here often enough, so I don't remember the last time I was in this building. It's been a while. Actually, a really long time, I think. It would have been one of those things like, oh wow, these guys are still around. Well, shame on you. Right. Well, man, thanks, Evan. This is great.

SPEAKER_02 45:36

Thanks again.