EP 24: God's Refining Purpose in Our Suffering

Pain isn’t theoretical when your life is marked by deployments, austere conditions, and long stretches of uncertainty. We open up about why military life can feel like unbroken suffering and how Scripture reframes it as a refining process that produces real steadiness and joy. From James’ call to count trials as joy to Peter’s vision of faith tested like gold, we trace a biblical map that turns raw hardship into purposeful growth without minimizing the hurt.

We press into the story of Job to correct a common myth: doing “everything right” doesn’t exempt us from grief, and even upright people discover blind spots when the heat turns up. Along the way, we name a crucial distinction that changes how we respond: tests come from a good Father who matures us; temptations lure us to escape. That grid helps us see deployment as the test, while the urge to numb out or chase comfort is the temptation—so we can endure one and resist the other with clarity.

Our own journeys are on the table—seasons of separation, infertility, a jarring disability label, chronic illness, anxiety and panic, and hard interpersonal conflict. Each story reveals the same pattern: suffering exposes sin we’d rather ignore and introduces us to Jesus in a deeper way. We share the practices that kept us steady when feelings frayed: short “fighter” verses, honest prayer and journaling, wise friends in a local church, and voices like Elizabeth Elliot and Joni Eareckson Tada who suffered well. We also talk about “wringing out” a trial—asking God for wisdom, harvesting lessons, and refusing to waste the pain.

If military life has you at the edge of yourself, you’re not alone, and you’re not stuck. Lean in with us for grounded hope, tested truth, and practical steps you can take today. If this spoke to you, follow the show, share it with a friend who needs it, and leave a review to help others find these conversations.

Transcript

Welcome And Winter Check-In

SPEAKER_03 0:22

All right. Hey guys. Welcome back to another episode of the Military Wellness Collective. I am Brian O'Day, and I'll be your host today. And I'm joined by my lovely wife, Kelly. Hey. Kelly, you you didn't speak much last week on the episode. But I have a feeling you're gonna be ready on this one.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

This is the one that's sometimes I don't have a lot to say.

SPEAKER_03 0:46

Sometimes I don't have some things to say. And our good dear friends, Joshua and Brittany Brown. Hey.

SPEAKER_02 0:54

Hey, hey.

SPEAKER_03 0:55

All right. And we're, if you're curious, we're in eastern North Carolina. But it is winter. You know, it it's winter. And winter Joshua. You know, I gotta say, where are you from, Joshua?

Framing God’s Purpose In Suffering

SPEAKER_01 1:10

I grew up in Minnesota. So my brothers sent me a picture literally like two days ago. And it's like white snow, freezing cold. And I was asking them about their hunting stuff from this past season. And I was just like, oh man, it's really cold out there, huh? And they were like, Yeah, we're not going outside today. Yeah. So meanwhile, it's like 50 degrees here.

SPEAKER_03 1:36

So man, that we may reference back to that because what we're gonna talk about today is God's purpose in suffering. God's purpose in suffering. And uh for me, I I've said this before. I am way too affected by the weather. And so like winter gets me into weird things, and I understand that winter up north is worse than winter here, but anyway. It's so hard. I would argue that the military experience is suffering. The military experience is just wrought full of suffering for the service member, for the immediate family thereof, and honestly, everybody that's connected to that person in some way, shape, or form, the military experience is suffering. But what we're gonna talk about today is that God has a purpose in suffering. So we are here to give biblical wisdom. So somebody point us to where we can find biblical wisdom on God's purpose in suffering.

SPEAKER_04 2:48

Where do we begin?

SPEAKER_03 2:50

Kelly has a I wish we were visual here. Kelly has a list of written out passages on suffering.

Scripture Foundations For Trials

SPEAKER_00 2:57

Well, yeah, because we need God's truth in suffering. Amen. Because our our flesh will take us to all kinds of places. And that's what I've learned to do over the years is just I need truth, I need truth. And so I write truth. When I don't know what to do, I write it down. And so in my journals, in this piece of paper that I've had folded up and I bring it out and I share it with other people, are just verses that I've written down. But I will start with one of them. James 1, 2 through 4. Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds. For you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness, and let the steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing. Man, I uh Yeah. Can I read one more? Yes, first Peter six through seven. In this you rejoice, though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been grieved by various trials, so that the tested genuineness of your faith, more precious than gold, that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ. So, I mean, one big thing is it tests our faith. Suffering. And I have a quote from Elizabeth Elliot that I think is just helpful talking about suffering. Is suffering is having what you don't want or wanting what you don't have. So that looks different for everybody. I think that's really good.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

For those who don't know, Elizabeth Elliot, a quick synopsis on her.

SPEAKER_04 4:45

Through her writing and her teaching. Yeah. But she was the wife of Jim Elliott, who was slain by spear in the jungle of Ecuador, along with four other men. So there were five men, I think it was 1969, Jim and Elizabeth Elliott, missionaries. Yeah, many years ago, but more modern missionaries. And so these five men were killed by spear, taking the gospel to this native tribe. And she didn't shy away her and another woman after their husbands were killed, actually went back into the jungle. And the this tribe, many of them, including the chief that led the spearing, came to know Christ and was like an uncle to their daughter. So amazing story. There's you can read her biographies.

SPEAKER_03 5:34

And she was in her twenties when that happened, I think.

SPEAKER_04 5:38

And she knew suffering. I mean, he died, then her second husband died from cancer, and then she was married again. She had dementia later in life.

SPEAKER_03 5:46

She she was with her second husband for a pretty short period of time. And basically provided the palliative end-of-life care for her second husband who was dying. And so she knew suffering from a very young age in her 20s, 30s, 40s, and God used that powerfully for her to write a lot. That's good. And I've read her two-part biography that was great. Honestly, we'll add that in the resources as well. But that was great. So good. So so suffering is a test, Kelly said. Okay, it's a test. It's it's seeing how it's helping us see if our faith is genuine or not. And also God is doing something in the suffering. He's He's doing something in us. And the first one you read, Kelly, said that we're actually supposed to be joyful when we endure this suffering. Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:56

Well, and I'll say so. In the first one in James 1, 2, 3, 4, it says, count it all joy. Then in 1 Peter 627, the second one, it says that all this may be found to result in praise and glory and honor.

Job’s Story And Repentance

SPEAKER_03 7:11

So we're supposed to have joy in the suffering, but also the result is actually to bring us to more joy. Yeah. Okay. Good. What other what other biblical wisdom do we see on suffering?

SPEAKER_04 7:22

Well, I just think of the life of Job. I have gained a lot of wisdom on suffering from the life of Job. You know, sometimes we look at him and we're like, oh, he didn't do anything wrong. Because God says that. Like he's, you know, great. But at the end of Job, we do see he's a broken human and he needs to trust in the Lord and not in the works he's doing and the sacrifices he's making. Like, what's the heart motive? So I think biblical wisdom shows us that trials are a testing ground. They reveal where our faith really is and what it's in, the genuineness of our faith. And it opens our eyes to who God truly is, and he peels some things back that are uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_03 8:05

So I think that's really perceptive. I think if we're not careful, we get Job wrong, and we just read Job chapters one and two, and like, oh, well, Job Job did not sin.

SPEAKER_04 8:17

Yeah, he was a righteous man.

SPEAKER_03 8:18

He was a righteous man, and in all these things he did not sin. But what is Job doing at the very end of the story?

SPEAKER_00 8:24

And it's a long book to get through to get to that episode.

SPEAKER_03 8:27

Maybe that's why we stop at chapter two. But what is what is Job doing at the end of the book?

SPEAKER_04 8:33

Yeah, he's praying out to the Lord, like, hey, this is who you are. Yes, this is who I am. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:38

Job is repenting because God has done something inside. Yes, Job's external actions are great, but God has had to get after some internal, like prideful things that are happening in Job. And that's really where the book lands is Job's repenting of his pride, and God is restoring him after the work of suffering has had its effect in Job's.

SPEAKER_00 9:05

That is what God is doing. He is us more than we know ourselves. So in these sufferings, he is getting at our heart and wanting us to repent of those things. And I just yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:22

So can you do this? This one I see on your piece of paper here. Uh Hebrews 12. Again, God's doing something. That's the whole thing. God's purpose, God is doing something even in our suffering.

SPEAKER_00 9:34

Yes, Hebrews 12, 7 through 8. It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there when his father does not whom his father does not discipline? If you are left without discipline and which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.

Discipline, Testing, And Temptation

SPEAKER_04 9:53

That makes me think of James 1. If you go down a little further, verse 12 Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial. For when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him. And I am often reminded that tests are from God, temptation is from Satan. And in the midst of trial, we are tempted to turn from God instead of seeing it as a test from a good teacher who is revealing to us maybe the knowledge we have and the knowledge that we lack. Joshua often reminds me, are you gonna say it? Were you gonna quote it? He the teacher remains quiet during a test. You shared that with us on a double date one time. And I was like, man, that's good. Yeah, I need that reminder. Like, okay, the trial that I'm going through is the test. What is my temptation in that test? Do I want to cheat and make it through quick?

SPEAKER_00 10:49

Or do I don't know, or just run away? I I think I've seen so many bad responses in my own life. Like that has made me want to be like, no, no, this is actually testing my faith. What do I, what do I know? Like, I need to remember that. And that's why I go to the truth. And I have like my fighter verses in the back of my Bible that I'm just like, when I when I am tempted to despair or to run away, or all the things that are not good. Let me remind myself of truth and and cling to that. And man, that is our firm foundation.

SPEAKER_04 11:26

Despair reminds me of Anne of Greengave when Anne says when Anne says, I never felt despair. And Marilla turns around and says, No, to despair is to turn your back on gold. Like that's what I think of. Like, oh I need to despair and turn my back on God. I like hear that. I know that's not like biblical, but that's some Anna Green Gable stuff.

SPEAKER_01 11:51

Marilla, that's a you know she added a point. But I I do want to repeat what you just said because those two words, testing and temptation, for somebody to just take a moment and whatever they're going through, whatever trial, whatever suffering, whatever issue they're they're dealing with, that is a great question to ask themselves to really figure out the next step forward. That's really cool. Am I being tested or am I being tempted to determine what those two things are is really helpful in what to do next. Are you are you to then repent and like get rid of this thing, or are you to endure through the suffering and be steadfast?

SPEAKER_03 12:31

And the answer is probably yes. The aspect of this, so it's almost like you asking that question, okay, what I would even say, like, what of this is a test? And what of this is my temptation in response to this test? That's good, right? So, like, my husband is gone right now, that's a test. I want to run to substance or into the arms of someone else, like, okay, that's temptation, right? And so, like, can I can we nuance those things? Though the that's how we want to think through that.

SPEAKER_04 13:09

I also think it's important to be clear really quickly. Like, just because you're going through a trial, I used to have a really skewed view of God, thinking like anytime anything went wrong, then I was doing something wrong. And God was like standing above me with like an eternal switch to just spank me with, or you know, like a hammer to come down on hard. And so when we talk about the testing of God and these trials that he's taking us through and that there's great purpose in it, it's out of a genuine love for his children, that he cares for us, that he desires for us to know his love for him. It's not this skewed view of like this angry, unloving father. Yeah, which I try to be clear about that.

SPEAKER_03 13:51

Which is why I wanted Kelly to read Hebrews 12. God is a good father, he disciplines those he loves. And so we need to see God's goodness even through these times of suffering. And honestly, that's gonna be really hard depending on what we're talking about in different spheres. The level of difficulty of affirming God's goodness in this circumstance can be just really, really challenging. I thought it would be helpful. What are some, as you look back over the past 20 years of your life and or your whole life, what are the seasons of suffering? I I think our hearers might do well to realize. I think sometimes I listen to podcasts and I hear them talk about suffering, and I'm like, you're you're a professional podcaster. What are you what are you talking about? You don't suffer. Like you're just sitting in there raking in the dough from this podcast, right? Like, yeah. But uh which we're not uh raking in the dough from this podcast. But what are the seasons of suffering, especially any that you think others might be wrestling through in this time?

SPEAKER_01 15:02

There's so many. Because there's physical, there's emotional, there's like situational. There's so many different aspects of this. And I could just I'm gonna leave it to the ladies here because I really want to hear where where your guys' thought thoughts are on this. But I just want to point out that there are so many different aspects of this. When I look back on the last 20, 25 years, you're talking man. Is it while you're going, you know, in 110 degree weather with you know 60 pounds of gear on and just suffering physically. Drinking hot water, physical water.

Types Of Suffering In Military Life

SPEAKER_03 15:42

And for you, those are myriad. Physical suffering through just like like what you're mentioning right now, that's just like the Marine Corps promised us austere conditions. Right. And they delivered on that promise to both of us. 100%. So enduring austere conditions. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:02

Difficult physical stuff. In the midst of the physical, then there's the emotional and separation from family that creates all sorts of internal turmoil. Right. So that type of suffering is also present. Then we have suffering of struggling through sin and then fighting against that and the suffering that is a a good and right thing for us to struggle through as we mature as believers. So I'm sorry to like categorize some of these things, but I just wanted to want to point out like whatever stories we bring up on this, there's gonna be a whole bunch of different types of suffering.

SPEAKER_03 16:37

Yeah, well, you gave us time to think about our specifics.

SPEAKER_00 16:40

And I mean, I do want to say that everybody's suffering different, and there's like we should never be judgmental of others' suffering or ours thinking it's better or not as much, or whatever.

SPEAKER_03 16:50

Yeah, suffering is not a competitive sport.

SPEAKER_00 16:52

Yeah, God has his purpose in it for each person and and not to discount somebody else's struggle or say that yours is more important or more, you know, like big seasons of suffering. Yeah, and uh some will be more detailed of others. I could do three podcasts on these things, but yes. I would just to generalize, like one of the first ones would be deployments, just being separated from my husband when we're supposed to be one. That was like my big thing. Like, Lord, we are one, but we are physically separated, and this is hard.

SPEAKER_03 17:28

And you know, two deployments with no kids, uh early in marriage, first four years of marriage, two deployments, and then a third deployment with young kids several years later. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:41

And then infertility, finding out that we would that I would not be able to have you know biological children. That was hard for sure. But God is good. So I could spend another podcast talking about God's plan and all that, he absolutely did. And another season and this is just me not sharing as many details, but just of depression, anxiety, many panic attacks. I would call them many because I know that they could have been worse. A season of that that I just never had experienced before and actually had been judgmental of other people before. But I felt like God had so many purposes in that.

SPEAKER_03 18:23

And then uh Which those were in response to difficult circumstances. Yes. But for you, your response was anxiety, depression, panic attack type stuff. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 18:35

And then more recently, just yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:41

Interpersonal conflict. Right. There you go. Yeah. All right.

SPEAKER_01 18:46

We'll summarize that one. Was there a story there? I'm sorry, I don't mean to like pry. All right. Brittany has to get in here. All right, Brittany. Big seasons of suffering.

SPEAKER_04 18:56

I guess I'll go on my big seasons of suffering. So thinking back on military life, definitely deployments, like Kelly said.

SPEAKER_03 19:05

So deploy how many, how many like overseas extended deployments? I know tons of trainings, tons of field time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:12

Three three would be the three difficult ones, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:15

Yeah, three really difficult ones.

SPEAKER_01 19:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:19

Brian corrected me on saying in another podcast episode about Joshua's IED accident.

SPEAKER_03 19:25

You kept calling it an accident. And I was listening to our podcast after it happened, and I was just like, accident? What a weird word. That's the way we talked about it with our kids. So, how do you want to talk about it?

SPEAKER_04 19:38

I guess Brian gave me new wording, which is true. Like it was an attack on my husband's life to kill him. That was definitely a season of suffering, uh, having a baby while he was deployed and processing all of that while he was still in combat zone. I had a lot of suffering in my childhood, in my yeah, just different things. And I'll leave that there. And then dealing with chronic illness has been a major suffering point where God has acquainted me very clearly with my own sin, not giving me the diseases because of my sin, but just shown me my desire for comfort over.

SPEAKER_03 20:21

Revealed sinful.

SPEAKER_04 20:23

And acquainted me more clearly with him. So I'm I see the purpose in it.

SPEAKER_03 20:27

Yeah, good.

SPEAKER_04 20:28

Yeah. I don't know. There's lots of things. Sorry.

Personal Seasons Of Pain

SPEAKER_00 20:30

Just hearing you say that. And then as I was saying mine, like I can look at each of those situations too and see, like and remember the sin.

SPEAKER_03 20:39

That's my quote. That's my next question.

SPEAKER_00 20:41

Like I had to that God kind of brought up and all revealed through that.

SPEAKER_03 20:45

Let me so a couple, so for my my like big seasons of suffering. Definitely deployments, separations. For me, and I'm I feel like I'm still working through this. There was a bit of an identity crisis coming out of the Marine Corps. I was like the Marine Corps for me was not something I did. It's who I was. And you know, the Marine Corps' propaganda kind of perpetuates that. Like, I don't, I'm not in the Marine Corps. I am a United States Marine. And I will always be a good one. They did one Marine, always Marine. Always be a United States Marine. And one thing I tell guys is like, hey, just so you know, that's just propaganda. Like, if I show up and try to tell the Marine Corps what to do, they're like, get out of here. Like, what are you doing, man? Like, shave your face. Um, get a haircut, something. I you know, it's like so that's that's primarily, but that's a real thing, that identity crisis. I think also this is something I think veterans don't talk about much, and and maybe this will be helpful for active some active duty guys. Once once you get a rating, like a disability rating, the government just told you you're disabled, and they put a percentage to it. You are X percent disabled. And and or I remember my first like physical diagnosis was like I have disks in my back that are not where they're supposed to be. And that was between deployment two and deployment three, and where I got that diagnosis, and my first temptation was oh, this is why I I don't need to work out anymore, I don't need to exercise, I'm broken. I'm you know what I'm saying? And so, like for me, it's been a lot of identity crises, yeah. Infertility for sure was a big one, and then many interpersonal conflicts over the years, for sure. So, okay. What has God taught you through that suffering?

SPEAKER_04 22:47

I want to say he has taught me this. I love this quote by G.K. Chesterton, and he said, in order to get clean, you have to get into hot water. And I have notes here in my Bible as I was processing that quote that the trials of life are our hot water. And I think the two main things God has shown me in the purpose of suffering is one, they expose and acquaint me with my personal sin, and two, that they acquaint me with who my Lord and Savior is and what I truly think about him and who I believe he is. And so I think that is what God has taught me most clearly as I walk through seasons of suffering. That's good. Okay, who am I in this? Like you said, identity, and who is God to me? Who do I really believe he is?

SPEAKER_03 23:37

That is so such good questions. Who am I? Who is God?

SPEAKER_00 23:41

And I think with those two questions, just what I would say is like, yeah, I've seen that my response on my own is not good. So I need God, I need a savior, I need somebody. Yeah. But then also that's why it's so important of like, what do we do? Where do we go? If our go-to is the truth in scripture, like we get more of God. And I mean, that is like just my song through this. It's like we get to know God in a way we never have before when we're in that place on our knees, just humbled by our circumstances or whatever it is. We're not alone, you know. Just like it's yeah. One quote that I love from Joni Erickson Tata is no one participates in God's joy without first tasting the afflictions of his son. And that is just it's just true. Like that's where we get to know him in a way we've never known him. And it's yeah, it's a joy that we've never had as well.

SPEAKER_03 24:49

Yeah, there's another great author, Johnny Erickson Tada. I'm pretty sure you say it, Johnny. But anyway, sorry. Um, she was paralyzed as a kid. Teenager, yeah, teenager, yeah. Or teenager, and so lived her life paralyzed, and God taught her a lot through that.

SPEAKER_04 25:04

Yeah, walked through suicidal ideation, lots of things. You saying that, Kelly, makes me just when you say, like, I just want to sing about it, that the word of God is our greatest comfort. I did walk through seasons of great anxiety, so I resonate with you when you say you judge people because I did too. Like, we'll just pray more. And then when you walk through it yourself, you're like, Oh, yeah, this is real. Yeah, like there were times I slept with my Bible, you know, and just memorizing scripture, knowing the word of God. We've said that over and over on this podcast. Like falling in love with the word of God.

SPEAKER_00 25:39

Sometimes it wasn't always like feeling or like or in, I couldn't say I'm falling in love with God's word in this moment, no, but just that discipline of like, when I don't know what to do, I will write these truths down to just be doing something in a direction that is good and truth. Yes. Because my heart is tempted to do all sorts of evil things, scroll, whatever.

Identity, Disability, And Worth

SPEAKER_03 26:05

We're all right, we're we're morphing into what to do in these seasons of suffering, which is great. So, one is get into the scriptures, what is true, what does the Bible say about who I am, what does the Bible say about who God is? Journal, write these things out, pray it out to the Lord. Read, you guys have alluded to reading people who are writing about this, good, godly folks who have actually suffered, who are reading and writing about these things. I would also add to that saying it out loud to a trusted friend or mentor, which can easily be found in your local church. Yes. Yeah, go to your in a local church, a trusted friend or mentor, to say sentences like I'm struggling with anxiety. I am freaking out that dot dot dot. Or I don't even know what I'm freaking out about. To say, I'm really struggling, like walking in church on Sunday morning is just so difficult right now while my husband's away, or while I'm working through this sin, I feel so much shame walking in to the congregation as I'm working through this sin that has been a secret sin, whatever the case is. So, like saying those things out loud to another human being who's gonna point you to scripture, who's gonna point you to the Lord, that would be another tangible thing, I think, to do.

SPEAKER_01 27:40

I know we're we're running close to time here, but I just want to mention and double back on something you started us with, Brian. You started us with you all out there who are listening to this, who are in the military, your military time is just full of suffering. I think what we've talked about here is how that suffering brings you closer and closer to God if you allow it to. If you allow it to, yes. And if you do that, I think we've talked about in many other other episodes of how the military life is a fast pass to maturity in so many different ways. If you if you soak in that time of difficulty and just grow in the Lord, your military time can be such a fruitful and wonderful time as well. And you can grow so much, it's just so wonderful.

SPEAKER_03 28:34

So you watch this metaphor of soaking it in. I I actually think of it as ringing it out. So when when a when I'm coming towards the end of a season of suffering, I want to like just examine it and I want to ring out every bit of wisdom that I can from that season. You know what I'm saying? Just bring it out, just get every because I don't want to have to go through it again. Like if God took me through that to teach me something, I want to learn. That's right. I want to learn what he's got to teach me.

SPEAKER_04 29:05

I also think if looking at James 1 in verse five, right after he says like what the purpose of suffering is and like let said fasting have its full effect, he says, if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given to him as we go through trials. You're talking about wringing it out, you're talking about soaking it in. Like, what wisdom do you have for me, Lord? And ask him for that. Like, help me to see clearly as I walk through this season of suffering. Let me know where you're at in it. Give me discernment to process testing and temptation, like all those things. We have the power of the Holy Spirit. Like, absolutely, like, don't let us forget. And I think so easily we forget and we isolate, we don't plug into community. And instead of taking that time with the Lord and talk, you know. Sorry.

What God Teaches Through Suffering

SPEAKER_03 29:56

So a couple things, resources. We're gonna drop a few resources, and actually, two of the resources are either a sermon or a sermon series. So if you're if you're getting this education through your earbuds as you drive to work or through your whatever, like we're gonna give you a couple other things to be listening to as you do things like this and pray through and one book. So we're gonna drop that in the show notes. The other one is something we can do during this time is lament. And so stay tuned because next week we're actually gonna talk about biblical laments. Thank you guys so much for continuing to listen. I know that sometimes we do we do a fair amount of laughing and type things on this on this podcast, but we also want to get into the seriousness of what we're struggling through in this season of suffering that is the military experience and beyond. And thank you guys so much for joining us. I love you guys.