Military Wellness Collective
Military Wellness Collective is made up of four friends — two retired Marines (Joshua and Brian) turned church planters and their wives (Brittany and Kelli)— who have lived life both in uniform and on the home front. Together, we share real stories, hard-earned wisdom, and practical, biblical encouragement to help military members, and their families thrive in every season. Whether you’re navigating deployments, adjusting to life in a new town, or simply seeking hope in the middle of your military journey, our mission is to equip you with truth from God’s Word and tools for a healthy, resilient life.
Military Wellness Collective
EP 25: Learning to Lament and Moving Through Suffering Well
Pain doesn’t vanish when we pretend it isn’t there. It grows quieter, then heavier, until it reshapes our days in ways we never chose. We’re taking a different path—learning to lament—so we can name what’s broken, bring it to God, and find real rest for tired souls.
We start by defining biblical lament as passionate, honest prayer that acknowledges sorrow, confusion, and loss while moving toward trust. From the Psalms’ language of refuge to Jesus’ invitation to the weary in Matthew 11, we draw a clear map: God is big enough for your tears and kind enough to hold them. Along the way, we share personal stories of grief, including infertility, and how the practice of lament created space for healing without minimizing pain or rushing to “fix” feelings.
We also confront why lament is hard. Pride tells us to keep it together. Culture offers endless escapes—scrolling, streaming, substances, busyness—that numb for a night but steal tomorrow’s peace. Instead, we walk through a simple, repeatable rhythm: name what’s wrong, ask honest questions, bring it to God, and pivot toward trust. We talk about the difference between saying “It’s okay” and saying “I forgive you,” why avoiding pain becomes a quiet form of lying, and how lament transforms anger into energy for faithful action.
If you’re ready for tools, we share them: journaling prompts that help you speak what hurts, scriptures that steady the heart, and how to create conversations that hold space with questions like “What’s been hard about that?” We recommend resources that deepen the practice—Dark Clouds, Deep Mercy; Gentle and Lowly; Suffering Is Never for Nothing; Good and Angry—and name when a wise, biblical counselor can help shoulder the load.
Subscribe to get future episodes, share this with a friend who needs honest hope, and leave a review with one line about what you’re lamenting and trusting God with today.
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Connect with us and send us your questions at hello@militarywellnesscollective.com
BOOK RECOMMENDATIONS from this week's episode:
Amazon.com : dark clouds deep mercy
Amazon.com : suffering is never for nothing elisabeth elliot
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And we are back with another episode. I'm Brian O'Day, and y'all have let me host two episodes in a row, which can be a little dangerous. And that voice was Kelly O'Day. Hi. My bride. 21 and a half, almost 22 years, huh? It's been fun.
SPEAKER_00:It's been so fun.
SPEAKER_03:And it's been hard.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And the fun then hard then fun.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Right? Yeah. Sure.
SPEAKER_00:Like, yeah, like I don't really understand what that means. Where you fun, then it's been fun. I mean, that's true of just like everything. Lots of fun, hards, fun, hards, fun, hard, fun, hard.
SPEAKER_03:You know, it's like, yeah, so like you know, when we got married, like we didn't know what we were doing. And it was just like, hey, it's fun. I like spending time with her. She seems to think I'm okay. And then like life gets difficult. And we uh we were a Marine Corps and everything was happening, and so it was difficult. But now it's it's fun. So it's good.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. And our we have other people here too. We have other people. Did you say that?
SPEAKER_03:Joshua and Brittany Brown, also married. Also married, also like each other.
SPEAKER_02:So yeah, honey. Yeah. We've been married for over 20 years, and we've had some hard and some fun. Yeah and some hard and some fun.
SPEAKER_03:There we go. All right. So, despite our jovialness, we do have a serious topic today. Yeah, we did. Um, so last week we talked about suffering, and we continually pushed ourselves to realize that God has purposes in suffering, and we talked about some things we can do when we're in seasons of suffering. We even got into some of our personal seasons of suffering. One of the first things we need to do in suffering is to lament. Biblical laments. Can we define lament before we even get into like biblical truth? Can anybody define lament?
SPEAKER_01:I have a definition written now. Good. Does anybody else have thought of it? I hope it's the one I'm thinking of. Well, I don't know. Oh, but when I ask myself what is biblical lament, I see it as a passionate, honest prayer, expressing expressing deep sorrow, pain, or confusion to God, acknowledging suffering while maintaining faith. That is good.
SPEAKER_03:That was that's Britney. Is that Brittany Brown? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Well, it's taking parts of definitions and putting it together. That's really good. That's good. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So it acknowledges the pain. Right. Yeah. So Mark Vroga, if who knows how you say his last name, Dark Cloud, Dark Cloud's Deep Mercy, great book on biblical laments. He says it's a prayer in pain that leads to trust, which is good. But you get that, like it acknowledges the pain and it turns that pain to the Lord. We're not saying the pain didn't happen. And and so I think we do something, but I'm getting ahead of myself. What are some biblical, what's some of the biblical wisdom for laments?
SPEAKER_00:I'll start start with two verses from two different places in the Psalms. Psalm 34, 8. Oh, taste and see that the Lord is good. Blessed is the man who takes refuge in him. And Psalm 42 3. My tears have been my food day and night, while they say to me all the day long, where is your God?
SPEAKER_03:So suffering. Suffering. We need a refuge. Yes. Right. You don't need a refuge if everything's fine.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_03:You don't need a strong tower to run into if everything's fine. It's when life gets difficult that we need that we need a refuge. And so God is our refuge. That's kind of refuge, strong tower, mighty fortress. That is throughout the Psalms. And then the Lord, the Lord is big enough for our tears. And there's this really intimate picture in the second coming of Jesus at the very end Revelation 22 or 21, that He wipes away every tear from our eyes. Just so like such an intimate picture. Like I don't, Joshua, I don't we're good, we're we're really good friends. I don't I can't imagine myself wiping a tear from your face.
SPEAKER_00:But I could with Brittany.
SPEAKER_02:If you did that and I was crying, it would throw me off so much that I would forget about what I was crying about. I mean I already don't like people touching my face. Right. But but anyway, with God He just took us to a weird place. I did. Yeah, sorry. But something to know about that passage. If God is wiping away tears, that means the tears are present. Oh, that's right. And he's not ignoring the tears. Right.
SPEAKER_03:He's not like, hey, hey, suck it up. Dry it up. Dry those tears up.
SPEAKER_02:We got work to do. He's not preventing the tears either. He's purposing the tears.
SPEAKER_03:And and he's actually ultimately he takes those tears by sacrif by the second person of the Trinity, Jesus, laying down his life for the sins that cause so much suffering. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. What else do we have on Lament?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I have one in Matthew 11 has some really good imagery going on. And so it says verse 28 Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me. For I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light. And there's a whole lot of imagery going on there of taking that yoke, placing it upon and then Yeah, man, it is it is just rich.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so we can come to Jesus when we are weary, when we are heavy laden, we can come to him, and ultimately he gives us rest. So he's God is our refuge, Jesus says he is our rest. The author of Hebrews picks up that theme of Jesus being our ultimate rest for sure.
SPEAKER_00:Can I just say with that, like I think so often we feel like the people in our lives, like they may not be able to handle or hear what we really want to say. But I just love that we can like God can handle it. And we can just like I remember, I mean, one story of when we were early married, I mean, it was three years in, I guess, when we found out that we were not gonna be able to have children biologically. Like, I was even, I was afraid to let you even see, even though you were like my best friend, we've been married three years, love each other. I I was afraid you couldn't handle my grief because I was embarrassed of the the heaviness of that grief. I couldn't even show you fully, but I could to God.
SPEAKER_03:God was God's biggest thing.
SPEAKER_00:And that's what I just love about the Lord and our intimacy with the Lord is like we can we can lay it all out for him, like no matter how big it is or ugly it is or whatever.
SPEAKER_03:Interestingly enough, during the same exact season, I I can distinctly remember in the house our our house early on in that time. No, actually our house in Lejeune.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Where we were starting to realize like we're probably not gonna have kids the old-fashioned way. And so and I remember crying to the Lord while you were sleeping because I had the same concern. Like maybe you're not big enough for this, but but God is big enough for this.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So when you're kind of embarrassed or not even whatever, sure to to share, like we can always go back.
SPEAKER_03:I would say it's valid to wonder if this other human being across from me can bear the pain that I'm walking through because they're walking through their own stuff and they have their own limitations, and it may not be a burden for them. Now, for us, husbands and wives walking through infertility together. Yes, we should bear that burden together. And we did, and we we work through that over time. But, you know, there are times to say, I don't know if this person can handle this right now. But it's also important to realize God can. God can handle anything you're working through. So lament is a prayer, it's an acknowledgement to God. And ultimately the goal is to lead us to trust and faithfulness.
SPEAKER_01:You guys continually pointing back to God makes me think this is a practice that we lay out before him. And I have some notes in a journal that I brought out here where I said lamenting is us bringing our doubts, our heartaches, things we are grieving, sufferings, pains, dark secrets that I hold, my own sins. This is me bringing this to the Lord to find true healing. And this deepens my trust in him. And ultimately, I will find hope in him alone and be transformed in his presence, being made more like Christ. I love that. That's just part of my journaling of that. But also I think where I see this most is the book of Lamentations and in the Psalms. But I have Matthew 5 open where it says, Blessed are those who mourn and they shall be comforted. We have to be free to mourn before the Lord and be comforted by him. Um, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, Lament starts with this is wrong, this isn't right, it's not supposed to be this way, right? There's that that's the kind of the the kind of guttural response is like, no, this ought not be. And when we live in a fallen, sinful world and we are fallen sinful people, we're gonna bump into that all the time. And so we need to know what to do with it. And and this is what we're talking about. One of the first things to do with it is lament, take this pain to the Lord. He is our refuge, he is our rest, he is our strong tower, he's gonna help it have its effect in us. It's interesting, about three years ago, we lost a mentor to all of us. I was I think I was closest with him of the four of us. And two days after we found out that he died, I preached a sermon on biblical laments. And now most of my congregation really didn't know Clint. Right. They they didn't know him. But I so I preached it in a way that, like, hey, I'm going through this thing, so I need to preach about this today, not whatever I was supposed to preach about. And the number of people were like, I could not have told you what lament was. I don't think I knew that that was a word that I should know what it is. And I certainly didn't know how to do it, so thank you. And these were people that did not know Clint and they they were not feeling the same thing. And so you may be there and you're like, Lament, what is lament? And you're like, I don't even know what lament is, but we need it. We need to be able to see the wrong in the world and say that it's wrong and do the right thing with it, which is turn to the Lord. So I think a first question for us is like, why is this so hard for us besides ignorance? Right? Like, I don't know that, like, I didn't know what lament was and that I should be doing it as a Christian. But what other things make it difficult for us besides just ignorance?
SPEAKER_01:Pride. Okay. For me, like wanting to look like I've got it all together. Like, I am good at knowing that there's suffering and pain in my life, but acknowledging it is different to me. That's me naming it and then being willing to work through it. So I need to be honest with where I'm at. I don't maybe pride isn't the right word, but avoiding the hard work of it's uncomfortable like working through it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Because sometimes it's easier just to be like, I'm I'm just gonna ignore it or you know, push it away.
SPEAKER_03:So it's it's difficult.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's hard.
SPEAKER_03:And and pride of like, I'm supposed to be the one that has it all together and I can handle anything. Okay, good.
SPEAKER_01:Like, oh go ahead. Sorry.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I was just gonna give an example of this that maybe some people can relate to. We've all had young children in our houses at some point in time in our lives, and we've caught them in the act of doing things that were wrong at some point in time. I'm gonna give the proverbial like kids in the kitchen, has like cake smeared all over his face, two-year-old kid, and the cake is like mashed up all over the counter, and you're just like, hey, little little one, did you get into the cake? And the kid does a couple different things, either runs away, or he like he is like, No, I don't know what you're talking about, you know. Or they just like break down and they're like, Okay, I'm caught. And then they cry or lament, or whatever word you want to put, like they repent of what's happened and they deal with whatever emotion in a very toddler-isk way. We do the same thing.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Even as adults. Right. Sometimes we just run away from it and try to pretend like it doesn't exist. As a matter of fact, that probably happens a lot with really major things. And then other times we try to ignore it and try to like say, oh, this isn't me. This is I have an identity that has to like project this strength. And so therefore I can't lament of something.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_02:Or we actually deal with it. And the the point I want to bring up is as the parent, watching the child go through that, right? Our desire is that they repent, lament, deal with what sin or whatever thing was happening in the situation. Sometimes it's not even sin, it's just stuff that's happening, right? We want them to deal with it in that way. How much more so does our God in heaven, our father, our perfect father, who knows our heart and our emotions and our feelings, how much he wants us to process that as well.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:It's hard for us to do because of our pride, as you said, because we don't want to identify as, or we see it as weakness, we see it as something that diminishes our identity of we got it all together. There's so many different reasons, but if if if we could explain our hearts well, right, we'd write a book on it, and many people have.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it it look I love the phrase you're using, deal with it. Like we're it is dealing with it. It's not pushing it deep down inside, it's not acting like it doesn't exist, it's dealing with the difficult thing that's right in front of us.
SPEAKER_01:Makes me think of our last episode where we talked about suffering. Like when you're faced with suffering or heartache, there's only one way you can go and it's through it, right? You can't go around it or ignore it. And I think we try to sweep it under the proverbial rug like it's not there instead of dealing with it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Yeah, which actually, so if what we're lamenting is sin, right? Like someone's sinning against us or us, our own sin or the fallenness of the world, general sin, corporate sin, societal sin, whatever it like if it's sin, to act like it's not there is actually a form of lying. Like to say or to say it's no big deal. One thing we've taught our kids back to like kids, because we're yeah, we learn about a lot about God as we interact with his as new parents. So we teach our kids when when someone confesses a sin to you, you don't say, Oh, it's okay. You say, I forgive you. Because, oh, it's okay says, Well, it's okay that you punched me in the face. Well, that's not okay. It's not okay that you punch me in the face. It's not okay that you stole my toy that I'm playing with. It's not okay that you destroyed the thing that I care about. Like, it's not okay. I can forgive you. And so those are two very different things. And so in Lament, we're we're working towards what is the godly response to this. Similarly, like Kelly and I were just talking about struggles through infertility. That's not, to our knowledge, that's not response to either of our sin directly. It's something we have to deal with, but it is a temptation for all types of sin and to like blame one another, and or you know, all sorts of sins could come from there. And so we need to do the right thing with that. And lament is is just kind of a first step for so many things. Like, this is not good. I don't like this. Okay, now what do I do with it? Yeah, yeah. I'm turning it to the Lord, and now what do I do with it?
SPEAKER_00:Turning it to the Lord, David, because he has purpose, and I can see so many times in my life over the last several years of like when I went to the Lord and lament, not knowing what was gonna come from that, you know, certain circumstance or whatever, but God knew the whole time. And just seeing the beauty that came from the ashes in a lot of those, you know. So it's just yeah, just like turning our our eyes to the Lord.
SPEAKER_02:And yeah, I think when the question you asked a little while ago is why it happens so much here in our in our society. I I think one of the big, the big issues is is like when that toddler gets caught, sometimes he just runs away. We have that problem in America big time when we just run away from whatever thing is before us because we have so many avenues of entertainment, of escapism, avoidance, running away from whatever the thing is.
SPEAKER_03:What do we do instead? All right, so one is escaping to distraction. So the distraction that is ever present on smartphones, streaming services, whatever the case is.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, when it's been something hard, like sometimes I want to do that to just be numb. Yeah, numb. That's the word. Just like let me scroll so I don't have to like so distraction.
SPEAKER_03:What else do we do instead of lament? Distraction, we numb it with substance. So that could be so the big ones are alcohol, prescription drugs, recreational drugs, food, yeah. Food gluttony, like let me just eat and eat and eat. That's a big one. Good.
SPEAKER_01:I think in the military community, this can be easy for us to not lament because we move so often. So it's like, oh, I'll just start over in a new place. And you keep ignoring it. Yep. And so it's like an easy way for us to run from it. I don't know if that answers that question. Yeah, but you take it and it's going to manifest and it's gonna bubble up and over.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, that's a big one. The next thing. And and listen, I know we love Elizabeth Elliott. Y'all have quoted Elizabeth Elliott lots in our last one, and that's good. And she talks about do the next right thing. And but we have to realize sometimes the next right thing is to stop and to process what in the world just happened and to lament what in the world just happened. And so, yeah, the next thing is ever present in the military. The next move, the next assignment, the next deployment, the next mission, the next task, whatever it is, there's always a next thing.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you saying that makes me think of another thing we do is we just busy ourselves with. We hurry, we don't slow down, we don't want to pay attention to what we're actually feeling.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:We just we numb it, like we already said.
SPEAKER_03:That is so good. All right. So I think we've talked about the why is it important that we do this?
SPEAKER_02:Multiple reasons. Yeah. Not only for our own health and wellness, like thinking through things well and moving on from those and not having this like looming burden, some issue or emotion that's just kind of trapped inside and hasn't been processed. But it also matures us and grows us closer to God.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, we're turning to God.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And I think in that, like there's so many times where I don't really know what my response should be. Like I know what it is, but I want like I go to the Lord, like, Lord, help me think right about this or help me process this in a way that is honoring to you and to others, like just helping me align my thinking and all that. Yeah. Does that make sense? Hopefully.
unknown:That's good.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Oftentimes I feel like so we're both pastors at different churches here in this eastern North Carolina area. And uh it seems like over and over and over again the answer is go to Jesus and go to God. And it's like it's like we're doctors that only have one prescription for every single problem that there is out there. Like, here you go. It's the same thing over and over again, but in different ways with different circumstances and scenarios. And it's it's just amazing how much because God is in control of and is sovereign over everything. And us down here just trying to figure out how he's working in and through all of these things, is just the slow progression of him revealing those things to us. And these times of lament are times when we can make one of those big steps forward of understanding what God is doing in all of this craziness going on around us. So don't stiff arm it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, that's really lament kind of gets us starting on figuring out the purposes God has for us in suffering, which is what we just talked about last time. Like this is this is kind of the one of the, if not the first step, this is probably the first step. Like, okay, this is wrong. Let me turn it to God. And that that's the start of the process. God, this is wrong. And God's gonna be like, yeah, I agree, that's wrong. Or uh, yeah, it's wrong, and you're the problem, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, because in lamenting, we acknowledge like maybe the grief that we're trying to not see, maybe the heartache, the sin. I don't know. It like you said, it it propels us understanding God's purpose. I think to me, acknowledgement and knowing, I know it it's like the same, but to me, I always see it as two different things. I can know something. Right. Like I can know the the old example of the chair. I can know the chair is sitting there. To acknowledge the chair is me moving towards it and sitting in it, recognizing it. You know, it's like our faith moving towards God in that way. Like, do I acknowledge this that's wrong? Yeah, that should not be this way. And it leads me to it, like I love Advent season, so it makes me think of the Advent season in a study I was doing in December, like the joy of the Lord and the hope that we have when I lament to him, I can see there's hope in him coming that he's going to make it all right. Yeah. It helped me to see to trust in him more.
SPEAKER_03:Anyway, it's good. It's good. What what practical resources would you recommend for somebody that's maybe uh going through a season of lamenting where or they should be going through a season of lamenting? Yeah, what what resources?
SPEAKER_00:Something that's been helpful to me and now I do it with others is and I I don't even know if it's like a person or just I I don't know, but I can think of one person that's done this in my life. But as we're catching up and having our conversation with another lady, you know, like I've had a woman say, like, I bet that's hard. Has that been hard? Or how has that been hard? And I find myself doing that same thing to open up that for that other, because I mean, listen, I just think about Sunday mornings when we walk into church and we're carrying so much stuff, but we kind of have to have that look of like we're joyful, we're at church. But sometimes it's so deep and raw that I and I want to, I need to almost. And so I've I've tried to do that with other ladies, and it's just so amazing how sometimes just asking that they go from putting on this like facade of like I'm okay, to I let me pour out like this and it, but it is just this beautiful thing, and so yeah, what's been helpful to me now, I like hopefully.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so a good resource is another like Christian human being that you talk to about these things. And when you're that other Christian, are you talking about Carrie?
SPEAKER_00:No, no, I was actually talking about that.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, Annie, oh great.
SPEAKER_00:She does, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So but Carrie does too. They do great, and you know, so a lot of times when someone comes to me and tells me that something they're going through something difficult, I'm like, oh yeah, man, me too, or I know exactly how you feel, or like, right, or like it run to advice or or my default is like, here's a book.
SPEAKER_00:Encouraging someone to limit. Like that's what I I'm getting at.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, like just those those two individuals you mentioned are really good at like just resting in it for a second. Like that must be really hard. Asking the question. What's hard about that for you? Like, stay on the topic, don't rush. And acknowledging you're hard.
SPEAKER_01:It's just like it's holding space for someone else. Thank you.
SPEAKER_03:Good. Tell me more about that. Yeah. Bible study, prayer, journaling. Brittany mentioned journaling, pulling out journals. Kelly's journals strewn out in front of her here. Um, and so journaling. We had a whole episode on journaling a while ago, back in the fall, I think. So Bible study, prayer, journaling, other people, other Christians, uh, specifically other Christians in your local church. We've had an episode about find a local church. Good.
SPEAKER_01:I love the book, Dark Clouds, Deep Mercy, Discovering God's Grace and Lament. He shares some really personal stories in there.
SPEAKER_03:Dark Clouds, Deep Mercy, Mark Rogup, I think. Maybe.
SPEAKER_01:We'll put it in the show notes.
SPEAKER_02:Put it in the show notes. Good. What other books? So I actually listened to that instead of read it. And I think it was actually better because you could hear the author reading it. I'm not actually don't know if it was the author or not, but whoever was reading it did a really good job. And I was like, wow. I I couldn't put that voice in my head to read it and actually hear it in that in that tone. And so it is really good. That's great. It's on Audible, I think.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, that's awesome. That book, I have recommended that book so many times. It is so good to help us realize. I mean, it's a need for all of us, it's a need for our churches to lament. It's something we've neglected for far too long, isn't it? Not a bad thing. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:You asked what's hard about it, and it makes me think about just living in the West. We're independent. Like that's the like how we were founded. Like, let's be independent from Britain. Right. Like we're rebellious. We want to do it on our own. We have this independent spirit when the Christian life is a dependent life, and us lamenting is us showing our dependence on God. And I think so. In the West as a whole, it's hard for us. And then in the Western church, and then you add military culture where it's like no pain, no gain. Suffering pain is weakness, leaving the body. My dad used to say that as a Marine Josh had t-shirts as a t-shirt.
SPEAKER_03:Like that was the recruiting t-shirt.
SPEAKER_01:That's all a lie. It's all a lie. Lie, lie, lie.
SPEAKER_03:It's propaganda.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, propaganda.
SPEAKER_03:Propaganda. It has a point. It's a lie. It's a marketing. Other books.
SPEAKER_01:I think we got a couple other we said in the last one, Suffering is never for nothing by Elizabeth Elliott. It is also a five-part talk. Those are her talks taken and compiled into a book. And I love to listen to that. Every year I've listened to it for the past, I don't know, seven years. God does his best with empty by Nancy Guthrie. We need to be emptied of ourselves and see the Lord clearly. There's so many book recommendations I could probably give that would be helpful. Gentle and Lowly would probably even be a good read. So you understand God's heart and character towards you that He loves you. I don't know.
SPEAKER_03:Maybe not for Lament, but Yeah, this is a cousin to Lament. Yeah. But I recently read it and so I'm recommending it to everybody. Good and angry.
SPEAKER_01:Oh.
SPEAKER_03:A lot of times this like that's wrong actually elicits this anger response in us. And anger's not a bad thing. We often do bad things with it, but angered anger just kind of is, it's a it's part of human nature. And we need to do good things in that visceral response of that's wrong, not sinful evil things. And so that would be a cousin, good and angry, uh David Pallison. Right? Yes. I think.
SPEAKER_01:We'll put in the notes too.
SPEAKER_03:Anyway, friends, I think the other one I would I would recommend is if you're in a particularly difficult season, we have given some like pretty basic things. Read your Bible, pray, find a local church, talk to actual people, read good books. Like those are all pretty normal things. If you're going to some going through something specific and specifically heavy, I I just want to highlight the value of a good and skilled biblical counselor. A good and skilled biblical counselor can be really helpful in the really difficult seasons. Anyway, we love you guys. Thank you so much for joining with us. Some of you join with us week after week. If you're new to listening to this podcast, I encourage you to like it, follow it, share it with a friend. If this is a particular like this is a new idea and you have a friend who's going through a difficult time, maybe this is a good one to share with them. Share this episode. We appreciate it. It's one way you support the show and we appreciate you guys. I love you guys.