Military Wellness Collective

EP 44: Pornography And Promiscuity in Military Culture

Military Wellness Collective

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0:00 | 32:12

WARNING- If you have little ears around, this conversation may not be suitable for them to listen in on.

Pornography and promiscuity don’t stay contained. They shape how we see people, how we handle stress, how we bond with our spouse, and how we show up in our units and our homes. And in military culture, where close quarters, deployments, and “everybody does it” pressure are real, it can start to feel like sexual sin is just part of the job. We’re pushing back on that lie with honesty, Scripture, and practical next steps.

We talk about what pornography really is, why intention and the heart matter as much as the content itself, and how promiscuity can begin long before anything physical happens. We wrestle with Jesus’ words about lust and the hidden life of the mind, then get painfully specific about the environments many service members face on ships, in barracks, and during deployment cycles. We also share why the Bible’s commands are so direct: abstain and flee. Sometimes fleeing is spiritual, and sometimes it’s as physical as standing up and walking out of a room.

We also make space for the hard question: what should you do if you’re the one watching porn, flirting with an affair, or quietly living a double life? We talk about getting righteously angry, killing sin instead of negotiating with it, and bringing the truth into the light with safe, same-gender accountability. We recommend Brad Hamrick’s resources “False Love” and “True Betrayal” for both the offending spouse and the betrayed spouse, and we discuss boundaries that protect marriages, especially during deployments when temptation spikes. We don’t leave women out of this conversation either, naming how erotica, emotional fantasy, and the desire for attention can become a pathway toward compromise.

If this matters to you, don’t just listen and move on. Subscribe for more conversations on Christian marriage, mental health, and military wellness, share this with a friend who needs it, and leave a review so more military families can find hope and help.


Connect with us at hello@militarywellnesscollective.com


SHOW NOTES AND RESOURCES:

1. If you are currently struggling with a sexual addiction or sin and need help and accountability, we highly encourage you go to a leader in your church, or a trusted mentor (of the same sex), confess and ask them to go through this resource with you. Amazon.com : false love brad hambrick 

2. If you have been sinned against by your spouse, this is the companion for you- it goes along with the recommended resource above. We highly recommend that you seek out a leader in your church or trusted mentor (of the same sex) and ask them to walk through this resource with you. Amazon.com : true betrayal brad hambrick

3. Sexual-Sin-Evalution.pdf

4. Let’s Talk About Sex: Prevent Adultery – Brian O'Day

5. 5 Ways Porn Lies To You | Tim Challies

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Welcome And Content Warning

SPEAKER_04

Hey y'all. Welcome back to another episode of the Military Wellness Collective. I'm Brittany Brown. I'm going to be your host today. And I'm joined by my husband Joshua and our friends Brian and Kelly O'Day. Hey y'all. Are you here?

SPEAKER_00

I exist. I was just sketching.

SPEAKER_04

And I just want before we get into this episode, if you have little ears in the room or maybe teenage ears or and you failed to read the title of this week of today's episode. I just want to caution you, you might want to preview this episode before you listen to it with your kids, just in case. I mean, we're going to be talking about some heavy topics, and we just want to be on the upfront with y'all. We want to give you a caution. So you can either hit pause and come back, or you can go watch a previous episode.

SPEAKER_02

Or listen. Sorry. We don't want you to watch us.

SPEAKER_04

You don't watch us. It'd probably be really entertaining if you did watch it. Yes. Someday. Maybe that's coming soon. But just that's your caution. So we just give you space to do that. But today, what we're going to be talking about is promiscuity, pornography, and the military culture. Are we called to live differently?

SPEAKER_01

Yes.

SPEAKER_04

Yes. A quick answer is yes. And I feel burdened about this just because I've had many conversations with many couples and also just heard that some Christians believe that this kind of lifestyle is just okay. It's normalized. Yeah. Yeah. And in the culture we find ourselves in in military communities, this is we're inundated with it. I mean, we are as a Western culture anyway, with screens and technology that we have. But in the military culture, this is celebrated. It's not even hidden. It's like, you don't do that. Why don't you do that? And so we just want to talk about that today. Uh so we want to invite you into this conversation. And we hope that it is profitable. So I just want to start off by defining a couple things because I think we can deceive ourselves to think that's not really pornography. That's not promiscuity. And so let's just define some terms. What are we talking about when we are talking about promiscuity and pornography

Defining Pornography As Intent

SPEAKER_04

in military culture? Does anybody want to take a stab at that?

SPEAKER_02

Let's talk about pornography. Uh somebody else can tackle promiscuity. So I'll take that one. Brad Hamrick is somebody we'll reference a couple of times. I think he's really helpful on this topic. And really, pornography is about intention. And so there is so both the intention of the person that is making the media, you know, writing pictures, videos is generally the media we're talking about. That person may be doing it for the purpose of unbiblical sexual arousal, right? So they're they're doing it for that purpose. So you think about like you know, the pornography websites or whatever the case is, they are putting that out for that purpose. Okay. As the consumer, you could actually, you know, pornographically, like for unhealthy, unbiblical, ungodly sexual arousal, you could do that with catalogs, you could do that with the news, you could do that walking down the street, you could do that, like you could have a pornographic mind. Yeah, yeah, social media, right? So you could have a pornographic mind consuming content that was not created to be pornographic. And so we're not gonna talk about like, well, if the person in the picture is doing this or that, or wearing this or that, then that's pornographic and this is not, or if the video is doing this or that, it's pornographic or not. Honestly, it's a heart issue. Beginning to end, this is a heart issue. And and honestly, I would even say in that, we already are stumbling upon some of the solution. The solution is a heart that is for the Lord and a heart that is genuinely loving other people. And so I think so often the conversation about this is like don't do this and don't do this, and make sure you download this software, which all can be helpful things along the process, but the process really has to get after love. Love. Like the pornographic websites are just doing awful damage to you. They are also doing awful damage to those that they are exposing. Most of them are there unwillingly. That has been researched and that has been published greatly. Almost everybody in those, especially the women, are there against their will. And and so you are not loving them well. And so love really is the antidote to all this. So I know we started just with a definition, but it really is a hard issue.

SPEAKER_04

I love that. And promiscuity is just sexual behavior. So it ties into pornography, but it's maybe you're sleeping around with multiple people. Maybe it's just your eyes are you're struggling with. Maybe your husband's been on deployment and your neighbor is coming outside and you see him mowing the grass and you're struggling because you miss your husband. You know, that can be promiscuous and it starts in the heart, like Brian's saying. So it kind of encapsulates is a the precursor, maybe, to pornography. It can define any kind of sexual temptation or sin that's gonna lead to a behavior.

SPEAKER_02

And if you're like, you guys are lunatics for

Promiscuity And The Lust Problem

SPEAKER_02

even thinking that this stuff starts in the heart. Well, Jesus explicitly says that in Matthew chapter five. You have heard that it was said you shall not commit adultery, but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent, that's a heart thing, has already committed adultery with her in his heart. And so this is a heart issue. Like what we're doing with our eyes, what we're doing with our bodies, like that is a heart issue. And Jesus has come to transform our hearts.

SPEAKER_04

I love that because it makes me think of whether we eat, whether we drink, whatsoever we do, do all to the glory of God. And that's a good question. Is this glorifying God? Absolutely not, because there's multiple passages where it talks about all the sexual sins, even in Revelations and some places, it talks about you will not inherit the kingdom of God. Now, I'm not saying you're not saved if you're struggling with this, but it talks about those people that continually participate in this, you're not feeling convicted, and you just continue on in that. This is a heavy thing.

SPEAKER_03

And it's not hidden from God. Like I think it can be hidden from other people for long amounts of time sometimes, but it's not hidden from God. That's good. That is it.

SPEAKER_04

So we want to kind of, I'm just gonna break down how this conversation is gonna flow a little bit. We want to just talk about the culture of the military. And I asked the question are we called to live differently? Because this is the air you breathe, this is the water you swim in as military members. So I hear people try to excuse and maybe take scripture a little bit out of context, like, well, this is just cultural and this is our culture. So this is okay.

SPEAKER_03

People say, like, oh, your husband will look at porn while he's deployed. Like it's everywhere. He will. It's not if he will.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, it's just when. Um so I mean, you've hit, like, yes, we're called to live differently. That's clear. What does that look like? Like if you go from struggling with it with these temptations, uh, maybe looking at porn, or even like Brian mentioned, okay, I'm on Instagram and this is this cute girl, but I'm thinking of her in this way, like how do we what do we do with that?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. So there's two verbs that we get on the topic of sexual immorality in the scriptures. And I think it's only two. If that if I'm wrong on this, man, comment, email us, whatever. But the words are abstain, meaning don't do it, and flee, which means run away from it. Okay. So those are the two verbs that we should do. Abstain from it and run away from it. Now, that becomes really difficult. In some ways, I want to agree with the friend that Kelly that told Kelly, your husband will look at porn. Meaning it will be around in sometimes unavoidable ways temporarily. So, like on deployments, like I have like on sometimes we're in really close proximity to each other, right? And so, like guys will be viewing pornography near you at times. And you like physically, you're like, okay, how can I get away from this physically? And so we have to abstain, do not

Military Culture And Living Set Apart

SPEAKER_02

bring it into our lives, and we have to flee from it. Sometimes that means I have to pick my body up and walk out of the room. I have to move my physical location. I have to, especially if I have authority or influence in the person's life, hey, can you put that away? Like, I'd rather not do that right now. Generally, I would recommend Christians not be morality police, but in this situation, it's like it's not helping them, it's not helping anybody involved, it's not helping me. That would be a time to say, hey, can we just not do that right now? I would really appreciate that. Right. Like that could just be you could word it as a request.

SPEAKER_04

If you're an authority, which may open up a conversation.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it's gonna open up a conversation. So yeah, flee, run away from, abstain. Uh maybe another like cousin kind of verb is make no provision for the flesh. So sometimes we keep things around as like, oh, well, I'm not gonna do that anymore, but let me keep access to it. I'm not gonna do that anymore. Let me let me still hang around where it's happening. I'm not gonna do that anymore, but let me replace it with this softer version of it or whatever the case is. And so just be really careful about your own fleshly brain's ability to make all kinds of excuses for this stuff. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I would just like to note on the culture aspect of this. If you are in a unit or if you show up to a unit that is in all of these dark spaces doing all these dark things, it is very dark. But if you come in with light, it shines very, very brightly in those dark spaces. And so I just want to encourage anyone who's in that situation to realize you can make a really big difference by doing some very small things, like just follow God in these things. Because if you're on ship and you're living in close, close quarters and these things are happening, and you're being the opposite, you're being the light in that dark space, oftentimes what will happen is just out of a general respect of people, the culture of that dark space will actually tone that down just by you being present and being not stern or being morality police, but when you know, when somebody's around who's doesn't do something that other people do, they typically find a middle ground, right? And so you can actually affect a lot of really important things and it's gonna bring up conversations. And if you're prepared for those conversations to like talk through the reasons why you're following God in this way, you can be a really powerful witness.

SPEAKER_02

And I think you have more influence than you think you do. Oh, yeah. I think that's true for every aspect of this. I know we've kind of gotten stuck on the ship thing, so we'll hear from the ladies here in a second, but it's it's just a really unique moment where like all these dudes are in one spot, and there's usually a TV in there or people have their laptops or whatever. So it's just like it's just there, and you can't get away from it. And so, like, I imagine as you were talking, Joshua, I was imagining what if I did like one of the most overtly Christian things I could do and tried to like force everybody else to watch it. So, like, hey guys, we're gonna watch Joshua Brown's sermon this past Sunday, and we put it on the big screen where there's 15 dudes sharing a birthing space, and we're like, we're all gonna listen to Joshua preach the gospel to us. What would a non-Christian do? They'd be like, turn that mess off. I don't want to see that garbage. So we can do the same thing as Christians, right? Like, turn that mess off, I don't want to see that garbage. Like they would do that same thing. Now we're gonna do so maybe in a more loving way and in a more explaining way, but just we have more influence than we think in those situations.

SPEAKER_04

It reminds me of a quote, and it's unknown who said this, but it's better to light a candle than to curse the darkness. As Christians, it would just light the candle and just say something. You don't have to stand there and berate them about how terrible they are as people.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, that can be quick. Like turn that mess off.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, just be the light.

SPEAKER_02

I'm trying to read over here and read your Bible.

Abstain, Flee, Make No Provision

SPEAKER_04

What would you tell someone to do that is actively watching pornography, maybe having an adulterous relationship, struggling with looking at other women? But they're listening to this episode and they know something's gotta change. What do they need to do?

SPEAKER_02

You need to get angry about it.

SPEAKER_04

Get angry about your sin?

SPEAKER_02

Yes. A righteous, holy anger. Any addiction, especially if it's an addiction, at some point you just have to get mad enough about it to put it to death. You j like we get that language in scripture, put to death the what is earthly within you. And so it is a holy, righteous putting to death the sin that lies within you. Okay.

SPEAKER_04

So death needs to be killed.

SPEAKER_02

To be killed, murdered. Okay. Good, righteous killing. Okay.

SPEAKER_04

So that does not mean if you're having an adulterous affair.

SPEAKER_02

No, I'm not talking about killing people.

SPEAKER_04

I know. I just want to clarify. Because I I I the way I asked the question, I was like, wait a minute.

SPEAKER_02

Somebody might hear that. And I'm not talking about don't kill yourselves. Don't kill your spouse's adulterous. No.

SPEAKER_04

We need we're talking about killing the sin within your heart.

SPEAKER_02

Good clarification. Sorry. Great for the thing.

SPEAKER_04

I just realized the way I asked that question. All of you are smart enough listening out there, but I just want to clarify what we're communicating.

SPEAKER_02

Honestly, and it's heart level, gut level stuff. You think it's that's why like some of the things, like, oh, I've got to throw this away. Yeah, you should throw it away. I need to limit my access to this stuff on my phone. Yes, you should limit your access stuff. I need to download this thing, this software to block this stuff. Sure, you should do that. But that's not the end of the process. We have to get to the heart level. So the recommendation I will put is Brad Hamrick. He has written two resources. He has written False Love, and then another resource that's kind of a companion guide is true betrayal. So for the one who is caught in sexual sin, who is engaging in sexual sin, whether that's pornography, adultery, or something thereof, then you want to go through the resource by Brad Hammer entitled False Love, and he is going to lead you through a process to ruthlessly cut out the sin from your life, heart level sin. I'll just give you one little spoiler alert. Um, in in the first chapter, he's gonna talk about lying. Because if you're a Christian and you're caught up in sexual sin, you're lying about it. If any other Christian cares about you, you're lying about it. And so we want to make sure, like he's gonna get after some heart things, and he's gonna get after other heart issues that you might be surprised are are in there and that are affecting this particular sin as well. And so you want to do that. The other, the companion resource is called true betrayal, and that is for the affected party. And so your spouse's sexual sin is affecting you more than you think it is. Yes. And so true betrayal is gonna walk you through how to process that at a heart level as well. So false love, true betrayal by Brad Hamrick. You can find it. New Growth Press publishes it. So you can go to their website or your other places that you buy books.

SPEAKER_04

Would you recommend they maybe their pastor doesn't know about these resources or another Christian brother, that they take those resources and say, I need somebody to go through this with me.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, you could go through it self-paced, but yes, I would recommend a godly spiritual same-gender person to walk through it with. And I would actually recommend the offending party, the guilty one, would start that process. But honestly, whoever's gonna start, go ahead and start. But yes, that they would go through that. Ideally, you would go through that with a mentor, a godly mentor, same gender mentor. Yes.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

What I love about that curriculum is it really gets down to the nitty-gritty of all the things in your life

Being Light Without Policing People

SPEAKER_00

that this sin affects that most people don't think about. I mean, it it goes across so many different aspects of your life that it is just so helpful for people to realize oh wow, I am being affected in this way, in this way, in this way, and this way. How I look at the world, how I look at this, how I this affects my relationships. All of these different relationships are hurting because of this sin. That's when they get to the point of like, all right, I need to murder this thing and just get rid of it. And it's awesome.

SPEAKER_02

Some of you may be realizing how much it's affecting your life. And so you're close to that point of being angry enough about it. Some of you don't realize this is affecting everything. It's affecting your relationship with God, your relationship with your wife or spouse or future wife or spouse. It's affecting your work, it is affecting your relationship with every other human being on the planet. It is affecting your own relationship with your own self to include your mental health. It is affecting, and I'm that's just the easy list. I don't even know everything it's affecting. It affects everything.

SPEAKER_04

And just because it's the culture does not make it acceptable.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_04

It just doesn't. And so the call to abstain, to flee, to kill, that is all scriptural. And no, we just really want um y'all to see that we understand the culture that you're swimming in. We've swam in it, we still swim in it with being in ministry in the military community, being on this side of the boat, I guess, or being in the boat. I don't know. Maybe we're pedaling along. I don't even know what analogy to use are. Just walking through these things with people, it's helped open my eyes to see the destructiveness of it, how destructive these sins really are when you're walking with couples through it. And you just you cannot take it lightly just because it's normalized. Addiction is not okay.

SPEAKER_00

Have y'all ever done any studies on mob mentality? Like cultural mob or like group like crimes that are fit committed. Not like a group gets together and you know figures out how to rob a bank, but I'm talking a mentality type.

SPEAKER_02

Are you talking about a culture that enslaves another culture for generations? Like that type of like cultural sins. Is that what you're talking about?

SPEAKER_00

No, I'm talking about like today. If if a group of people starts riling up another group of people and then they start turning over cars and then burning stuff, like there's people who are who would never think about doing something like that otherwise. But they get caught up in the group, they get caught up in this group and they just start doing it with them. And I see that happen in the military, that culture of oh, this is talked about, this is accepted, this is something we all do, and they just do it. And then people who wouldn't otherwise get caught up in this sin. And the interesting thing about when you study these different group mentality things is all it takes is one person to go, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, what are we doing? And typically the whole crowd second guesses their thought process and goes, Oh, yeah, what

Get Angry And Kill The Sin

SPEAKER_00

are we doing? And it can diffuse an entire situation. And yeah, so I just want encourage that one out there. If you feel like you're the one. Yeah. So that's you are. You need to like stand up for you.

SPEAKER_02

That's what happens like in in moments of time in s in relatively small groups of people. But I think also societally it can grow to that, which this is where we're at with sexual sin. Yeah. It is a societal sin. Like we are guilty of societal sin of like yeah all sorts of evil evil things.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. And we're not just talking about to the men. Right.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Like I just want to talk to the women too. Pornography can be an addiction for women as well. And I think we're it's a different looking culture than it may be in the military or for guys, but I I think a lot about the books we read and the things that we watch. There's so many things that can lead us down a bad path and just things that the Lord's convicted me in, you know, of like what my eyes are reading and watching. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah like you know just traditionally for women the romance novel the graphic romance romance novel is generally more more common though the visual pornography is becoming more common as well.

SPEAKER_04

And we're emotional. So I think yeah and just so we know there's a title for that when you're reading it it's called Erotica.

SPEAKER_03

It is a specific genre now and it is and it's growing like I just it's yeah it's hard to read a book that doesn't have that and like fiction you know like yeah just Joshua you said something about confronting and I was going to say something and now it just left my mind one thing I wanted to talk about was like not necessarily pornography but promiscuity and this is just what God has been had taught me like in our marriage in military life there was lots of physical separation for us and you're deployed and like we were talking about just the heart level I had temptation of just men's attention. I just wanted another man and and I would like even kind of reason it out like well I haven't had anybody around to tell me I'm beautiful. I don't know it was just like not good things that was going through my mind and that I realized like I liked attention from other men and just thankfully by God's grace just like that didn't never go to anything physical but it could have easily done that. And just and then I I think of another time in our marriage like later on when you were really busy in work and but I wanted to blame that but it was really my heart what's crazy is I had just finished leading a women's Bible study. So I was a little prideful in that without even knowing it and I just like in my thoughts with another parent that you know we dropped our kids off at the same time I like played out this weird emotional thing and that just led me down a really bad path that was not good. And it and so all that was like just an indicator of like where my heart is like whoa this is scary. And that could have played out to to things more than just in my head but thankfully it didn't. But it's just like these things we have to address like God knows them. And I think we need to just like live in reality of like whoa I shouldn't be thinking these things I shouldn't go down this path.

SPEAKER_04

I need to tell my spouse you know and talk about it and that yeah you say and that made me remember what I was going to say like to think you're above doing this like you might be a person right now that's like oh I would never do that. That's where I was just pridefully like oh I would never do that. Yeah I would never have an affair. I would never watch pornography. I'm this great Christian person. Judgmental yeah my warning to

When The Crowd Normalizes Darkness

SPEAKER_04

you is your red light should be sounding anytime we think I would never I feel like it puts a target on our back and the enemy's like I'm going to shoot this start at you. Like so just be careful with that. You need to be aware you are a sinner you are fallen. We are capable of all crazy things that we think we would never do. We are like lest we what is it like you lest you fall I think that's King James version.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah but it's interesting so like I think so often if we're not careful we think the problem's out there right like you know there's pornography out there there's smartphones and we can blame them or you know people dress provocatively or it's all around like we think the problem's out there but really the the real issue is in our hearts and in our minds. And so both the things the ladies just talked about were thoughts it's and you know it's been said the the mind is the devil's playground but even more importantly than that is what the scripture says which is take every thought captive. And so if you see that thought coming up in your mind like oh what would it be like if grab that thought and do like get it out of your mind. Like I visually picture myself grabbing these thoughts and purging them from my mind and then replacing them with something better. I love my wife I I need to figure out how to love my wife better. I need to right I I love the Lord I would need to figure out how to love the Lord better. I need to right so find some things to put in the place of those thoughts and and take every thought captive.

SPEAKER_04

That's good. Yeah I think it's really good I and we talk about it all the time on these episodes like you've got to be in the word of God immerse yourself there. Usually when we're struggling with a sin we've pulled away in some aspects we're either deceiving those around us like we're in the word but we're really not or we pull away from community so that we are unseen and unknown. Yeah we start to get angry at other people so that we can pull away from them. So just watch these things in your life or maybe somebody around you you're noticing that's happening be a good friend. Like don't let them hit the brick wall say something. Do you really love them? I know that's a challenge to us in this modern society of cancel culture like you do you and I'll do me like that's not Christian living friends. That's not Christian community.

SPEAKER_02

And if you're maybe

Women, Erotica, And Hidden Temptations

SPEAKER_02

we'll link an article that I wrote on prevent adultery and it walks through this process. And what you're going to see if you if you look through that that like progress that leads to adultery if you're noticing something concerning in another person they are way farther along than you could possibly fathom inside their own mind and inside their own heart. So you may say I don't want to be judgmental and you don't want to be judgmental. But if you're seeing something concerning in a brother or sister they're probably way farther along than you can imagine. And so you should start asking some questions and bring it up I'm concerned for you. I'm concerned that you're spending so much time around this person. Yes. What's going on? Let's talk about it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

One of the cautions I would give and that a counselor had told Joshua and I are just wise mentor was affairs and things of that sort usually happen with the people you're closest to. And in military communities, this is really easy if our spouse deploys for the other man to be maybe not on that deployment cycle and your spouse is like oh well so and so can come to the house when nobody's there and you already have this familiarity and it's a guard that gets let down. As women, we need to be very, very careful with that. I know early on in my marriage Joshua and I realized some things like I had the same thing as Kelly like you want to be seen you want to be told you're beautiful or hey you look nice today where we just had to set a boundary of like this is never going to happen even with our closest friends. This is just here. So that's just a little thing I see happen often in our communities. Does anybody else have anything else before we cut this out?

SPEAKER_02

I think those are good things to talk about between husbands and wives andor mentors and mentees what are those boundaries that need to be put in place in this season of life and they may change in different

Capturing Thoughts, Boundaries, And Closing

SPEAKER_02

seasons of life they they should be more strict during deployments because of the temptation that is unique to deployments. So have those conversations.

SPEAKER_04

And we actually have an episode a little while back if you search its boundaries and how to think through good boundaries. Well y'all that's the close of another episode we love you guys. Thank you if you stay till the end of this conversation we appreciate you guys being here. We encourage you to share this episode this is a pretty big deal in our communities and if you have something you want us to talk about send us an email at hello at military wellness collective dot com and all the resources that were mentioned you'll find down in the show notes. So go ahead and click those and we'd love to hear from you guys. Thanks for joining us today.