Hire Ground | Episode 17: Excellence Is the Answer, Not the Excuse

Brent Bushey has visited enough schools to know the difference between one that's working and one that isn't — and he says you can feel it before you see it. In this conversation, he shares what that feeling is made of, why the way we talk about teacher burnout may actually be making things worse, and what school leaders can do right now, inside whatever constraints they're working in, to build something worth staying for.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hey y'all, welcome back to the second part of the pod. We're continuing the season's conversation about leadership and how we uh all across the country thought about how leadership has evolved or not evolved uh because of COVID. Um I'm excited to welcome Brent Bushy here, who is the CEO of Fuel OKC in Oklahoma City. Um has become a friend over the past few years. So Brent, welcome. And then do you want to give a 30-second, 60-second intro of what Fuel OKC does?

SPEAKER_00 0:35

Yeah, yeah, thanks, Josh. I'm really excited to be here. So Fuel OKC is an organization focused on increasing the number of quality seats and students, students attending a quality school in the urban core of Oklahoma City. Um so we're in our second year and uh we're we're we're really focused on how can we make sure that that all families in the urban core of Oklahoma City um have access to a quality school. Um we don't care what the name on the front of the school or the building is, we we want good schools for all. And so we're looking at how we can make investments in existing schools to think for quality to expand, how can we help make investments in schools to improve, how can we launch new schools, and how can we build aligned programs that um that that can support quality schools across the city?

SPEAKER_01 1:22

Well, not to not to ruin the punchline for the listeners, but you know, we've all been talking and pontificating, uh, I think is the best word about leadership and what does it mean to be a leader and how has it evolved. But I'd love to hear just from your viewpoint of you meet so many school leaders, you meet so many network leaders. Has leadership changed?

SPEAKER_00 1:45

You know, um I don't think so, honestly. I um I think that running a good school is extraordinarily hard work. I think it always has been, I think it always will be. Um I think that a school leader um to do a good job, in some ways, and I'm we're trying to lessen this burden, but in some ways requires a superhuman, right? Like um, especially in the schools uh here in Oklahoma City, where you're dealing with um, you know, uh low-income families, you're dealing with all of the challenges of poverty, um, and you know, the schools that we work with say we understand those challenges, we don't want to understate those challenges, but we also firmly believe that students need to excel, right? Um, and so how can we find ways to support the the students despite their their challenges? How can we do that with joy? How can we do that with compassion? But how can we also do that by help holding high expectations? Um I what I'm encouraged about in some areas is um, oh, just recently I was able to to travel to St. Louis with a group to um to learn about sort of how do we redefine success at the high school level, right? Like challenging the college for all. And not saying that college isn't important, right? I think that college is for many or most kids very important, but there are also other opportunities, and how can we define that in a way that is you know doesn't lower expectations but also ensures that that that students are presented with quality options. So I think that the challenge of school leadership is there. Um I'll k I could continue, but I do want to ask, like I guess you know, the COVID definitely presented a challenge, and you know, like is that what you're seeing? Is that like right now it's sort of a different world in the COVID post-world?

SPEAKER_01 3:34

Yeah, so I think the conversations we're having so far on the pod, and then the conversations I'm having with talent leaders, is people are hitting the exits, and I think you know, if you listen to National Public Radio, they're gonna talk about teachers hitting the exits, and that is true. But we're also seeing leaders hit the exit. Um, and my hypothesis is um having just left the assistant superintendent seat, we kind of saw this finish line of okay, get let's get back in the building. And we like produced uh adrenaline and then we got back in the building, and now people are like I can go be a consultant, or I'm gonna just give myself shade, host a podcast, right? Um so I think it's less about maybe the profile, but maybe it's the endurance or just people being tired.

SPEAKER_00 4:27

I don't know if you're seeing that uh from your definitely seeing that, and I'm seeing that you know you can make as much or more in an easier job, right? Like I'll put it point blank. I love my job, right? Um, my wife also is in this work, she works at our largest charter school network in the state, um brick and mortar network called Santa Fe South. She works much harder than I do on a day-to-day basis, and she makes a significantly smaller salary, and that's not okay, right? Like we've got to find ways to address. I think compensation is a really big problem uh in schools, both at the teacher and the leadership level. But one thing I wanted to bring up is um, you know, so I think there was this general trend in the charter world pre-COVID of no excuses, we need to hold high expectations. And there were some problems with that, right? Um also, I think some really good things. We came into COVID, and then a lot of folks said, okay, we've got a lower expectations, right? And and truth be told, like when codes were virtually learning, it's really hard to hold high expectations. Um But what you know, thinking about this podcast, what reminded me is a conversation post-COVID right early on. And I was running, um, previous to Fuel, the Oklahoma Public School Resource Center, and we were a membership organization that offered professional development and training to schools. And my director of teaching and learning came to me and said, Hey, I'm calling schools, and they're saying they're too tired. They like that we, you know, previously we would have provided professional development, and they're saying, Hey, we're we've just got too much with like our teachers, we just need to love them, right? And I shared that conversation with my friends in Tulsa, two women that run the teaching and leading initiative of Oklahoma. Um and they said, you know what? We think that's crap. I'm using my words, right? They're they're a little smarter and more educated than me. But they said, you know what makes teachers feel better and what makes school leaders feel better? Teaching well and leading well. And like we understand that teachers are tired, we're all tired. COVID was terrible for everyone. We're we're not trying to be lack compassion, but we think the best way to feel better and get going is to is to be an excellent teacher. And that doesn't mean that we go back to practices that rightfully in the high, you know, in the high, you know, no excuses, charter school, high expectations world, which frankly were punitive sometimes or you know, lack joy, lack like I'm not saying we go back to that, but excellent teaching by excellent teachers is fun, right? It is neat. Like you, you and I were both in the classroom. The good days, there's not much better than being a good teacher, right? And and so I took that lesson to say, you know what, like this is always gonna be really hard work. But the way that we can honor our teachers most is we can give them support and we can say your kids need you, and and the the more you lean into that, maybe it's not fair. But I don't have a better option other than teachers should be excellent teachers and leaders should be excellent leaders.

SPEAKER_01 7:23

So I'm gonna take it in a different direction than I was planning, just given your seat and your and you know what you've seen. And I'm curious to get to excellent teachers and excellent leaders, if you could weigh the magic policy one, right? Um what are the one to three policies you would say need to shift to get there?

SPEAKER_00 7:44

The easy ones pay, and I'm not gonna use that one, though I think that that's a piece of it. Um I think the I don't know if it's one policy or one, and I think of policies and legislative bills right now. Um but so the magic wand I would wave is how can we remove the restrictions where teachers feel constrained to teach the most important pieces, right? I don't want to remove um accountability systems and testing because I think we need a way of measuring success, but I'd like better systems. I'd like more responsive systems, I'd like to ensure that we have better curriculum and high-quality curriculum and the support for teachers to use that curriculum appropriately. I would like a teacher to step into the classroom and I want a policy environment that makes them feel as valued or more valued in society than doctors and lawyers and others. If we truly believe that education is the way out of poverty, and I do, then we should honor the teachers who are getting the results that help those children get out, just like we would any other hero in our society. And we don't. Teaching, you know, you've heard the phrases, those who, you know, those who can do, those who can't teach, that's a bunch of crap. Um, but part of the reason is because we haven't found a way to hire, you know, to to to to to level up expectations for teachers and then to pay them appropriately as well. Um so I it's a it's a very, very complex issue. But at the end of the day, I think if we could get teachers to feel just as I mean, you remember growing up, like I mean, at least for me, the the professions that were honored and valued in my family and in my community were the doctors, were the lawyers. It was not teaching. And I came from a family of educators. And so finding a way to change that would be the policy that I would that I would that I would float.

SPEAKER_01 9:33

Yeah, no, I mean, you're bringing up and we're both familiar with KIP, and I'm a former KIP teacher, but I remember that initial video that the Kit founders put up of the teacher who trained them and her classroom and the level of joy but also rigor, right? And and match there. Like that was a fun room to be in. Um, and this is like a small personal anecdote. You and I have talked about my son. I've not talked about him on the pod. Um, but it's been fascinating to watch. Um he is autistic, he's in third grade, and his special ed supports have gone from a one-on-one last year in second grade to 30 minutes a month, and he's making all A's and B's and arguably one of the most rigorous classes I've seen. And I think the the part is his teacher has taught third grade 18 years. Um I get to brag, she's going through new leaders right now. Um, she's just phenomenal, and so it's it's reinvigorated Bailey and I to say, God, that's the power of a great teacher, right? Like you get one teacher who can just unlock a kid. And so that's the policy level. I'd love to zoom down, but let's say the policy constraints are in place. If you're a school leader, what can you do within the policy constraints to get to that level of elevation of the profession, but also joy and rigor?

SPEAKER_00 10:59

Yeah, I mean, so I think this is a similar question that I get asked a lot is like, well, how do schools recruit in this talent environment, right? In Oklahoma and across the nation, we have a teacher shortage. And I always say, you know, the schools that get better results have less trouble attracting talent. That doesn't mean they don't have trouble. Like talent's a massive problem for everyone. But we have less openings at our at our at our lower perfor at our higher performing schools than at our lower performing skills, and they pay pretty much the same. So it's not a pay issue. And I think I would say, you know, to the leader that's trying to figure out how do I get out is how do you define success? What is your mission? Make it very clear, and then how do you wrap supports and structures around your teachers so that they first understand that mission, they understand how to get there, and then they know that they have the support to get there. Did I answer your question for you?

SPEAKER_01 11:50

Yeah, no, I I think it is clarity, focus, and an unapologetic um drive.

SPEAKER_00 11:59

No one went into teaching to get rich, right? If they did, they're they're not all that smart, right? And that isn't to say that pay isn't important and we shouldn't, but like, you know, at the end of the day, teachers want to be, and I think all humans want to be part of something that's excellent, right? And so, like, this the school leader that can get up and that can say, look, we don't pay you well enough, we're gonna ask you to do things that probably aren't appropriate, but guess what? Our students every single day depend on us, especially the students, the schools where they're serving high percentage of students and free and reduced lunch. And I think if you're a leader and you can define that mission and you can define the role that the teacher has and then support them, I I you know I see that in the in the higher performing schools. I go in and I can feel it. Right? I can, you know, I've got enough schools now, I can almost feel whether the school's gonna be good or not because of the way that the teachers carry themselves, because of the culture that's in the school, because of the way that the expectations they set for students. And so, you know, like that's one of the things that I get really frustrated with my friends in the traditional school system when they say, well, you know, the charters get the the active parents and the engaged parents and uh the good parents, and I'd like to I'd like to get in a fight with them about that. Um, but you know, what I say is let's just go into classrooms, right? Like, let's go look at the classrooms. And I can say this without a shadow of a doubt. The instruction in schools that are getting better results, especially with low-income students, the instruction is much better, right? There is a there's an importance of that. And those schools that have better instructional practices, more rigorous instructional practices, have a better culture, the teachers are happier, the teachers are also more tired, but like there's also a certain, you know, like you come home after a good day of work, you're tired, but you're also proud of the work that you've done. And I think that's is it fair to ask people to work that hard for the pay that we are? No. Um, but I don't have a better alternative, and I do know that those are the schools that I enjoy visiting and that I see more joy um in the teachers and in the students.

SPEAKER_01 14:01

I think that's a good place uh to wrap. So um I I just really appreciate you sharing your perspective because you can go policy and you can go school level. Um, so thank you for taking the time and thank you for the work that you're doing in Oklahoma City.

SPEAKER_00 14:16

Thanks, Josh. This is always fun. I'll see you.