Westminster Talking the Text Podcast for Sunday, March 15, 2026 | Fourth Sunday in Lent | John 9:1-41 | with Guy D. Griffith, Stephanie Boaz, Sophie Maness, & Will Wellman

Westminster Talking the Text Podcast for Sunday, March 15, 2026 | Fourth Sunday in Lent | John 9:1-41 | with Guy D. Griffith, Stephanie Boaz, Sophie Maness, & Will Wellman

John 9:1-41

The man born blind 

9:1As he walked along, he saw a man blind from birth.

9:2His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"

9:3Jesus answered, "Neither this man nor his parents sinned; he was born blind so that God's works might be revealed in him.

9:4We must work the works of him who sent me while it is day; night is coming when no one can work.

9:5As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world."

9:6When he had said this, he spat on the ground and made mud with the saliva and spread the mud on the man's eyes,

9:7saying to him, "Go, wash in the pool of Siloam" (which means Sent). Then he went and washed and came back able to see.

9:8The neighbors and those who had seen him before as a beggar began to ask, "Is this not the man who used to sit and beg?"

9:9Some were saying, "It is he." Others were saying, "No, but it is someone like him." He kept saying, "I am the he."

9:10But they kept asking him, "Then how were your eyes opened?"

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Good morning and welcome to another Talking the Text. I am Stephanie Boaz. Guy?

SPEAKER_01 0:11

Well.

SPEAKER_00 0:12

Sophie. Sometimes I just throw my last name in there just in case you get confused. It is good to be with you today. We are looking at John chapter 9, verses 1 through 41. My current thought is that we will read this entire passage, but in two sections, instead of having a second passage. But you'll have to wait until Sunday morning to see if that is the case. So this morning, before we begin, let's start with a word of prayer. Lord God, we thank you for this beautiful day. We thank you that you have awakened us to a new day full of possibilities. And we ask, Lord, that you will help us to be ready to serve you with all the gifts that you have given to us. Bless us as we come around this scripture together and help us, Lord, to honor the word you bring to us this day and that you give us to work with through Sunday. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.

SPEAKER_01 1:13

Amen.

SPEAKER_00 1:16

I prayed us because it turns out Guy Griffith will also be preaching on this Sunday. Where are you going to be preaching, Guy?

SPEAKER_03 1:24

First Presbyterian Church of Big Springs, Texas. Which is north of Midland, about 45 minutes and south of Lubbock, about an hour and a half. So exciting.

SPEAKER_00 1:39

Exciting. All right, so John chapter 9, verses 1 through 41. Hear the word of God. As he walked along, he saw a man blind from birth. His disciples asked him, Rabbi, who sinned? This man or his parents, that he was born blind. Jesus answered, Neither this man nor his parents sinned. He was born blind so that God's work might be revealed in him. We must work the works of him who sent me while it is day. Night is coming when no one can work. As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world. When he had said this, he spat on the ground and made mud with the saliva and spread the mud on the man's eye, saying to him, Go wash in the pool of Salome. Then he went and washed and came back able to see. The neighbors and those who had seen him before as a beggar began to ask, Is this not the man who used to sit and beg? Some were saying it is he. Others were saying, No, but it is someone like him. He kept saying, I am he, but they kept asking him, Then how were your eyes opened? And he answered, The man called Jesus made mud, spread it on my eyes, and said to me, Go to Salome and wash. Then I went and washed and received my sight. They said to him, Where is he? He said, I do not know. They brought to the Pharisees the man who had formerly been blind. Now it was a Sabbath day when Jesus made the mud and opened his eyes. Then the Pharisees also began to ask him how he had received his sight. He said to them, He put mud on my eyes, then I washed, and now I see. Some of the Pharisees said, This man is not from God, for he does not observe the Sabbath. Others said, How can a man who is a sinner perform such signs? And they were divided. So they said again to the blind man, What do you say about him? It was your eyes he opened. He said, He is a prophet. The Jews did not believe that he had been blind and had received his sight until they called the parents of the man who had received his sight, and asked them, Is this your son who you say was born blind? How then does he now see? His parents answered, We know that this is our son and that he was born blind, but we do not know how it is that now he sees, nor do we know who opened his eyes. Ask him he is of age, he will speak for himself. His parents said this because they were afraid of the Jews, for the Jews had already agreed that anyone who confessed Jesus to be the Messiah would be put out of the synagogue. Therefore his parents said, He is of age, ask him. So for the second time they called the man who had been blind, and they said to him, Give glory to God. We know that this man is a sinner. He answered, I do not know whether he is a sinner. One thing I do know that though I was blind, now I see. They said to him, What did he do to you? How did he open your eyes? He answered them, I have told you already, and you would not listen. Why do you want to hear it again? Do you also want to become his disciples? Then they reviled him, saying, You are his disciple, but we are disciples of Moses. We know that God has spoken to Moses, but as for this man, we do not know where he comes from. The man answered, Here is an astonishing thing. You do not know where he comes from, yet he opened my eyes. We know that God does not listen to sinners, but he does listen to one who worships him and obeys his will. Never since the world began has it been heard that anyone opened the eyes of a person born blind. If this man were not from God, he could do nothing. They answered him, You were born entirely in sins, and are you trying to teach us? And they drove him out. Jesus heard that they had driven him out, and when he found him he said, Do you believe in the Son of Man? He answered, And who is he, sir? Tell me, so that I may believe in him. Jesus said to him, You have seen him, and the one speaking with you is he. He said, Lord, I believe, and he worshipped him. Jesus said, I came into this world for judgment, so that those who do not see may see, and those who do see may become blind. Some of the Pharisees who were with him heard this and said to him, Surely we are not blind, are we? Jesus said to them, If you were blind, you would not have sin, but now that you say we see, your sin remains. The word of the Lord's goal. John keeps serving up these long narratives with these interesting discourses like last week. So what do we say about this?

SPEAKER_03 7:24

Well, I do think one of the interesting things is uh just the very beginning of it. Um Jesus notices the unsightly. Um now Jesus was walking along, he saw a man blind from birth. Uh it begins with him walking, and he sees um one gets the distinct impression from the gospels that it's people most hurting in any setting where Jesus mo quickly notices. And I I don't think before I was doing a little bit of work on the passage that I had really seen that myself. Right? Um, and yet that's so much part of not just John's Gospel, but all the gospels. You think of the you know, Matthew's Sermon on the Mount and the Beatitudes and all of that. It's uh you know, Jesus sees those who are hurting. I like that.

SPEAKER_00 8:39

I think it's interesting too that uh Jesus seeing him uh immediately uh brings up a question for his disciples with him. Why is he like this, basically? Is it his parents' fault or his fault?

SPEAKER_03 8:56

And and you know, the disciples have been absent for a couple of chapters, and then they come in with uh, you know, they want to play Job's friends, uh figuring out who's at fault here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:10

Also, I kinda I I never know how the sin and the healing get linked. But guy, the way you said uh seeing the unsightly, if the unsightly are linked to sin, they're easier to overlook. Right? Because if they're sinful, then I can leave them on the edges right and ignore them because that's uncomfortable. Right. And Jesus flips all that, he changes all that and says, actually, no. Nope, he flips in, he flips who's left on the edges, who's now at the center, how how the guy literally can you imagine getting a whole nother sense and how that would change the world for you?

SPEAKER_00 10:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:05

I mean, but that's kind of what God's love is, right? You get a whole nother sense of how we see each other.

SPEAKER_03 10:15

I like that. One of the reasons I'm I'm going down to this church in Big Springs, Texas, is uh there's a man who is a member there who's on the Outreach Foundation board with me. And I've been so impressed with Mike that I've said to him a couple of times, listen, anytime you need me to come out and fill the pulpit, I'm happy to do so. Mike uh grew up out there, and it's as I say, it's in West Texas, and early in his post-college life, he went and worked in the oil business in Libya, learned Arabic, uh, then he went and worked in Germany, where he met his wife, who's a Lutheran pastor's daughter, um, went and worked in the Netherlands, then after five kids decided to raise them back in West Texas. He still reads his Bible daily in Arabic.

SPEAKER_04 11:18

Wow, interesting.

SPEAKER_03 11:20

And uh to keep up his Arabic, and he also has gotten a huge heart for the church in Cuba, of all places. And uh I am so grateful for the work with the Outreach Foundation that has helped me see people in places I wouldn't see otherwise. Right. Right. Um, I had the chance a couple of years ago to go to Turkey to teach Iranians in diaspora who are Christians. The Iranian church is growing faster than any other church in the world. And, you know, it one of the things that I'll bear witness to uh in their pulpit is this that, you know, our eyes open to see God's work in these places that we wouldn't necessarily see. And what's our responsibility? You know, the thing that's so interesting is go and wash in the pool called scent. Um so he becomes uh that's the pool of discipleship. That's that's the pool of apostleship. Yeah, right. So, you know, you you now have the vocation of going and bringing others as well. And I think that's such an interesting part of this text.

SPEAKER_00 12:36

I think that is interesting to point to this almost as the the blind man's call story. Right. That he's being called into discipleship. And it's interesting because he doesn't have questions about his discipleship and who he's following, but everybody around him has questions. And all the answers, and all the times he gives an answer, nobody seems to believe him.

SPEAKER_03 13:00

Well, and and he's so honest, right? Uh uh he doesn't overstate he believes. You know, all I know is I was blind, now I see. And then later on he comes to you're my lord, my god, you know, uh growing sense. It's the kind of quintessential text for uh conversion story kind of here. Uh-huh. And it's so interesting that it's on the heels of um the Samaritan woman that we had last week, you know, similarly that uh she goes away, but this is uh this is so well crafted as well.

SPEAKER_00 13:42

Yeah. But in contrast to the Samaritan woman, this is someone who, if he was I mean, ultimately he's a part of the synagogue, so he's part of um society unlike the um the woman at the well was. But he's on the fringes of that particular society. Yeah. Um, and they don't seem to want to let him come off those fringes. Oh no.

SPEAKER_04 14:13

Yeah. Because they keep asking the question, hoping for a different answer, and he's like, I've already told you. Yeah, you just weren't listening. Right.

SPEAKER_00 14:20

And then they actually cast him out.

SPEAKER_03 14:24

Well, but first his parents throw him under the bus. Right. I'm like, what the heck? Yeah. Would you would you do what a parenting class for them?

SPEAKER_04 14:32

I mean, come on. It's not the Western. No, he can speak for himself. No, that's not what it was. That was uh No, I'm not getting thrown out, but you go ahead. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:44

Yeah, you you would you would not uh they would not pass Sophie's parenting class.

SPEAKER_00 14:49

Nope.

SPEAKER_02 14:50

Nope.

SPEAKER_00 14:52

Definitely not.

SPEAKER_01 14:58

What what do you all think? Um I I keep I I've obviously read this a million times, and I've always focused on the trying to attribute sin uh as the reason for misfortune or disease or blindness or whatever. But I'm so struck in this passage, the Pharisees' tenacity around this, and I I'm curious what y'all think is driving that. The the the argumentative nature, they're not letting up, and the I mean, there's an element of humor in here where there's a blind man who can physically see, and by the end of the story, we learn that the Pharisees are the actual blind ones. Right. Um, but what do y'all think is driving that for them?

SPEAKER_00 15:44

You know, one of the things that makes me think of, and this is, you know, just a just sort of a simile. I remember um when my father, because the mega churches were starting to come out, and I remember um my dad feeling like they're just so bad. They don't know what they're doing, they're not doing church right, and they're leading all these people astray, and and he would get really upset about it. And of course, what was really behind that was, you know, he felt like he was losing people from his church to these other churches, and so I think it was a fearful place for a while, and he didn't really stay there, but I still hear that from people that oh, these megachurches, that's the only place people want to go, and who knows what they're doing over there, and um and I think it's possible to see someone so moved, so changed by Jesus that we can be suspicious of it rather than just taking them at their word. Like if somebody came up to me and shared that they had a vision, and that they in that vision they saw thus and so, and now they're gonna act on that vision. I have to be real honest, part of me is gonna be going, wow, this is amazing. And the other part of me is gonna be wondering, what is gonna be the result of this? And like, why would I be suspicious of somebody telling me something like that? Um, I mean, there may be reasons to be suspicious, but maybe not. I mean, could it could Jesus really move in a way that seems absolutely crazy to me? Like, is that possible? And if it's not possible, what am I doing here?

SPEAKER_01 17:38

Yeah, I I think that's a good point. And it's also like um, I mean, it's such a good point for like where we are in American Christianity today. It's like there's a lot of fear because um well, I mean, it's like our attendance is plummeting, our membership's plummeting, and there's a lot of fear and finger pointing. Um, but it also is like, well, where is God at work? Where's the Holy Spirit moving us? And so there's a need to a necessity to move from that, like you call it fear, um, to that place of openness uh and excitement. Um yeah, that's that and and and I think you see this the Pharisees are interacting with Christ, but they're not having that transformative moment that the woman at the well has or this blind man has. And so it's not like God isn't at work, it's just are we choosing to be blind or not to it?

SPEAKER_00 18:38

I love that, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:39

Um it's like you said, I mean, like the vision thing, I think you go off in a million directions. I've heard some people say visions, and I'm like, no, you didn't.

SPEAKER_03 18:48

Uh but it's just a quiver in your liver.

SPEAKER_01 18:52

I I I do I do think I do think there's like unsettling ways that God is at work around us, and sometimes we don't want to acknowledge it because it looks different, um, or it's challenging, um, or it's different, you know, whatever you want to call it. And so, like, uh in that sense, Jesus is bringing what is different, the blind man, into the center. He becomes a protagonist. Yeah. The French character is now the main character.

SPEAKER_04 19:24

Right. And what does that do then? It it causes a lot of anxiety to the institution, to things that are sort of baked in people, to the leadership. If all of a sudden you have a new protagonist, everybody freaks out.

SPEAKER_01 19:39

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:40

And it's like, hold hold on a minute. This isn't how this story is supposed to go. I know the story.

SPEAKER_01 19:45

Right.

SPEAKER_04 19:45

But Jesus is changing the story.

SPEAKER_01 19:48

Yes. And and the thing I want to reiterate too is like, God is always at work. Are we being blind to it? And I think it's easy to say, well, I, you know, I would have done this or I would have done that. But like maybe not.

SPEAKER_00 20:03

Maybe not.

SPEAKER_01 20:03

Yeah. And I count myself in that camp. Yeah. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

I think it's most likely. I I have always felt this way. I think it is most likely I would have been more like the Pharisees. Because because that was a time of rule following, and uh when um I mean, so I would have been like, yes, we follow the rules because being afraid of getting in trouble is a big time.

SPEAKER_04 20:27

Like I've We can break this down with the Enneagram, too, you know.

SPEAKER_00 20:30

Oh, can we? I believe it. I believe it. Oh man. So anything else?

SPEAKER_03 20:41

What do you think happened after the end of the story? You think he's reconciled with his parents? Do you think he goes off and you know becomes a famous evangelist? Uh missionary for Jesus. I mean, what happens then? What's next?

SPEAKER_04 21:02

Yeah, is he allowed back into the culture? Right. Because he was on the side begging. Would anybody hire him for a job? Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_03 21:10

Right.

SPEAKER_04 21:10

Or just go out to go out and spread the word. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

Yeah. You you wonder too, like, was he someone that the early church knew? Uh-huh. Because this was a central text in the early ch uh church. It was a baptism text. The washing was something they read with baptismal uh liturgy. And so uh you know, maybe he left one community but came into another.

SPEAKER_03 21:34

One of the commentators I was reading about this uh says the the language around, you know, he put mud patties on his eyes is basically the way the grammar is there. Also asks, has he opened your eyes? Has he touched your eyes? Can you now see? Uh so uh you're you're Absolutely right that this becomes a core text for the early church that it asks that fundamental question have we been changed in the same way? And I think what a what an incredible testimony this must have been uh for the early church. Um so my my hunch was he probably got on the sawdust trail and uh you know was able to get out uh and do that. And of course, you know, what's your sermon title?

SPEAKER_00 22:35

I don't have one yet, because I'm unlike you, I gotta birth that sermon title before I can get moving.

SPEAKER_03 22:42

Oh no, no, no. I have to too. If if I don't have a sermon title, I don't know where the heck I'm going.

SPEAKER_00 22:47

But yeah, but I gotta work on it a little a couple more days.

SPEAKER_03 22:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:51

And then I'll be I'll know where I am.

SPEAKER_03 22:53

Yeah. Well, you know when you have to send in stuff a week ahead for the uh the the bulletin in Texas, you gotta work on this a little bit beforehand. But uh you know what's yours? Um I don't like it, but it's uh once was blind, but now I see. And uh you know, the amazing grace line. And uh that's great. And is that truly all of us? Um I mean, a lot of people don't like that hymn. Um I remember a great member of this congregation wrote me before he died, do not sing that in my hymn because I'm not a wretch. Um and uh I love that.

SPEAKER_01 23:33

It sounds like something a wretch would say. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:35

And uh and yet, you know, this notion of seeing and not, you know, what you were saying earlier, Sophie, uh how often my eyes don't fall on the one who is outside the circle or is hurting in that way. And uh rereading this and wrestling with it, that that opening sentence that Jesus sees those people, and if we're to be Jesus' followers, we need to see them too. Um so it's it's been a really lovely chance to wrestle with this and wrestle with, you know, what does it mean for my own discipleship, right? Not just preaching, but what does this mean for for me as follower of Jesus? How am I doing with that? And you know, maybe not so good.

SPEAKER_01 24:27

I I think that's a central part of this, too, is not just the welcoming in of folks, but our encounter with Christ, if we let it, uh will change us. He's not the same as he was before. The Samaritan woman is Nicodemus isn't. Right. Each of these people that we've read about in the last couple weeks is dramatically changed by that encounter. Right. And that's uncomfortable. That's another uncomfortable thing.

SPEAKER_00 24:54

Right. Yeah, yeah. I want to believe that his parents see him whole in a new way. Um, because the reality is he was whole before. But people saw his blindness and assumed that meant something about him. I want to believe that his parents see him whole and see him following something with such passion that they want to follow too. I want that to be the story.

SPEAKER_03 25:20

Yeah. I can see where you'd want that.

SPEAKER_00 25:22

I want that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:24

My hunch is they're still hanging out with their friends at the synagogue. They might be. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:28

They might be.

SPEAKER_03 25:30

Yeah. Throw br throw throw him underneath a bus.

SPEAKER_01 25:34

Wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:35

I know. Oh, brother.

SPEAKER_01 25:37

That uh this is a really funny story, so I'm gonna tell it.

SPEAKER_00 25:40

Okay, good.

SPEAKER_01 25:41

My brother was riding his bike in our neighborhood one day and he got hit by a car.

SPEAKER_00 25:45

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 25:46

And they were going slow enough where he just kind of flew under their hood and didn't get hurt. He was also young, like when you're a young kid, you can just take take a car. So it was a teacher from our school that hit him, and she was an older woman, very old. And now I was like 12 when this happened, so she was probably 35. Right. She was probably not as old. But when we when we when when uh when they brought her to the house, we were all there and we were like, what is she doing here? And she had a friend with her in the car. And they walk in with Tyler, these these two women, and this uh very short older woman who was in the passenger seat, before anything he said goes, it wasn't me, it was her. And points at the teacher before we even know any consequences. So I was thinking about that with these parents. They're like, hey, it was him, not us.

SPEAKER_02 26:45

You asked him.

SPEAKER_01 26:46

We got nothing. So whenever anything happens in our family, we always go, it was her.

SPEAKER_00 26:52

That's funny. Oh goodness. All right. Well, we shall see what we come up with this Sunday here in Nashville, but also down in Texas. Will they be recording?

SPEAKER_03 27:06

I don't know. I I know nothing about this. All I know is I get on a plane very early on Friday morning, like 5 30, and uh somehow show up in Midland and somebody picks me up in a car there and takes me to a part of the world I've never been to.

SPEAKER_00 27:24

That sounds great.

SPEAKER_03 27:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:25

Um, so tell us the name of the church again so we can search it if we want to.

SPEAKER_03 27:28

First Pres, Big Spring, Texas. Excellent. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:32

All right. Guy, would you close us in prayer?

SPEAKER_03 27:34

I'd be grateful too. Gracious and loving God. Give us eyes to see. To see the world as you see. Give us eyes to see beyond the exteriors to the heart of everyone. See beyond um self-imposed borders and boundaries and ways that we rope off one another. See that you see everybody as a beloved child. Give us eyes, we ask, oh God. And because we have seen you change us. Change us dramatically into the people you've called us to be. And we would be your church in this place and this time. And then in doing so, that would give you glory and honor. All this we ask in Christ's name and for his sake. Amen.