Westminster Talking the Text Podcast for Sunday, March 22, 2026 | Fifth Sunday in Lent | Ezekiel 37:1-14 | with Donovan Drake, Stephanie Boaz, & Ashley Higgins

Westminster Talking the Text Podcast for Sunday, March 22, 2026 | Fifth Sunday in Lent | Ezekiel 37:1-14 | with Donovan Drake, Stephanie Boaz, & Ashley Higgins

Ezekiel 37:1-14

The dry bones of Israel

37:1The hand of the LORD came upon me, and he brought me out by the spirit of the LORD and set me down in the middle of a valley; it was full of bones.

37:2He led me all around them; there were very many lying in the valley, and they were very dry.

37:3He said to me, "Mortal, can these bones live?" I answered, "O Lord GOD, you know."

37:4Then he said to me, "Prophesy to these bones and say to them: O dry bones, hear the word of the LORD.

37:5Thus says the Lord GOD to these bones: I will cause breath to enter you, and you shall live.

37:6I will lay sinews on you and will cause flesh to come upon you and cover you with skin and put breath in you, and you shall live, and you shall know that I am the LORD."

37:7So I prophesied as I had been commanded, and as I prophesied, suddenly there was a noise, a rattling, and the bones came together, bone to its bone.

37:8I looked, and there were sinews on them, and flesh had come upon them, and skin had covered them, but there was no breath in them.

37:9Then he said to me, "Prophesy to the breath, prophesy, mortal, and say to the breath: Thus says the Lord GOD: Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live."

37:10I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived and stood on their feet, a vast multitude.

37:11Then he said to me, "Mortal, these bones are the whole house of Israel. They say, 'Our bones are dried up, and our hope is lost; we are cut off completely.'

37:12Therefore prophesy and say to them: Thus says the Lord GOD: I am going to open your graves and bring you up from your graves, O my people, and I will bring you back to the land of Israel.

37:13And you shall know that I am the LORD when I open your graves and bring you up from your graves, O my people.

37:14I will put my spirit within you, and you shall live, and I will place you on your own soil; then you shall know that I, the LORD, have spoken and will act," says the LORD.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Well, welcome to another Talking the Text. I'm Donovan.

SPEAKER_02 0:07

I'm Ashley, and I'm Stephanie.

SPEAKER_00 0:09

All right. We've got some resurrection texts for Sunday, uh, and they're wonderful texts. We have the Ezekiel Dry Bones text, and we have the Lazarus coming out of the tomb text in John. And uh I think the sermon text, I always I think the sermon text is it's Tuesday. And I think the sermon text is going to be Ezekiel 37. Um but the John text I always find is interesting because of Lazarus dying and Lazarus um Jesus not getting there in time, and then the call that is it Martha or Mary? Uh where have you laid him? And she says, come and see, which is the call to discipleship. And so he weeps at that call because he knows he's going to have to go into the tomb that he pulls Lazarus out of. So this is the Sunday before Palm and Passion Sunday. So uh we have a little precursor of resurrection going on, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:23

All right. So our biblical text is Ezekiel 37. And uh before I read it, let's have a word of prayer. Well, holy God, we give you thanks and praise for a beautiful day that you have made, and we pray that as we read this text that we might hear your words, and that your words might be in our words as well. Be in our hearts and our minds, may your spirit be here in Jesus' name. Amen. Okay, Ezekiel 37. The hand of the Lord came upon me, and he brought me out by the Spirit of the Lord, and let set me down in the middle of a valley. It was full of bones. He led me all around them. There were many lying in the valley, and they were very dry. And he said to me, Mortal, can these bones live? I answered, O Lord God, you know. Then he said to me, Prophesy to these bones, and say to them, O dry bones, hear the word of the Lord. Thus says the Lord God to these bones, I will cause breath to enter you, and you shall live. I will lay sinews on you, and will cause flesh to come upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and you shall live, and you shall know that I am the Lord. So I prophesied as I had been commanded, and as I prophesied, suddenly there was a noise, a rattling, and these bones came together, bones bone to its bone. I looked, and there were sinews on them, and flesh had come upon them, and skin had covered them, but there was no breath in them. Then he said to me, Prophesy to the breath, prophesy, mortal, and say to the breath, Thus says the Lord God, Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live. And I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and they stood on their feet, a vast multitude. Then he said to me, Mortal, these bones are the whole house of Israel. They say, Our bones are dried up, and our hope is lost. We are cut off completely. Therefore prophesy and say to them, Thus says the Lord God, I'm going to open your graves and bring you up from your graves, O my people, and I will bring you back to the land of Israel, and you shall know that I am the Lord when I open your graves and bring you up from your graves, O my people. I will put my spirit within you, and you shall live, and I will place on your own soil, place you on your own soil. Then you shall know that I, the Lord, have spoken and will act, says the Lord. The word of the Lord.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

Thanks be to God.

SPEAKER_00 4:05

Thanks be to God. All right. Um what a great text, right?

SPEAKER_01 4:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:14

And what do we like about this text?

SPEAKER_01 4:18

Everything. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:23

Um Yeah, I know people uh look at trying to find a historical place, battlefield of corpses, all that kind of stuff for this thing. But I love the just the metaphor of it that the people who have been either deported and ransacked, it's time to breathe life back into them and get them back home. Um but I start thinking about oddly, death. And uh that it it it to me, you can see yourself as a prophet in this thing. Or you can see yourself as the the dry bones, the dead bones.

SPEAKER_03 5:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:15

And if you're dead bones, you're kind of predestined to be good ones. Or live live people, right? I mean, you're just dead. Right?

SPEAKER_02 5:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:27

And the spirit comes on you and the word is heard, and then you come back to life. Um it's all God work.

SPEAKER_03 5:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 5:36

Right. Uh, which is good news. Very good news.

SPEAKER_02 5:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 5:42

So anyway, that's what I was thinking about. Isn't that interesting? Um, but then I also think of myself as, you know, you hear the the the preacher in here as well, the one who has to prophesy and speak to dead people. Which on occasion we do every Sunday, right? I mean, just kidding. Just kidding. What do you hear in this text?

SPEAKER_02 6:12

I definitely hear I hear the deadness.

SPEAKER_00 6:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:18

But I hear it not as death, dying, like we think of a person dying. I hear it more as what has felt like a death of the people because of exile. Like ultimately the dry bones are remnants of a people that were, that seem to have been abolished at this point. I mean, if you are in exile, if you have lost connection to your people, even if you're not in exile, but you've lost so many who are in exile, right? Then those people are that that people, as in plural people, could be seen as dead, but we're talking about God's people, and God isn't done with them yet. And so the word that comes is not necessarily the same as with Lazarus, where Lazarus is dead and he is called out of the tomb, and now all of those who were grieving him are celebrating that Lazarus is alive. Instead, this is a call to all the people to wake up to we think we're dead, but God's not finished with us. God still has plans for us.

SPEAKER_01 7:38

Yeah. And I mean, I hear God asking the question rather than Ezekiel. I just love that. Um you could read it as, you know, kind of a test, right? Like God asking Ezekiel this question do you have, you know, can these bones live? But I just I think God asking the question and then Ezekiel such an honest response, oh Lord God, you know. I mean, you could he he could have said, I don't know. You know, I mean, is that the same thing? You know, oh Lord God, you know. Um is that just a well that have felt like a more faithful way to say, I don't know. Right. Um but then God goes on to say, Prophesy to them, I will cause breath to enter you. So I just I love the question and the fact that God asks it. Ezekiel's I don't know, and then immediately God's yes. Immediately there's a yes. Um because how could you even imagine life after all that the people had been through? I just I think it's just so honest and such a human, such a human response, and also such a God uh just God at work. Yeah. Um I think it's it's beautiful. And then at the you know, at the end too, I think I hadn't noticed before, like at the very end, God saying, and I will place you on your own soil. The the hope of that promise that we'll be back. Not just that, you know, they never by the end of the passage, it it's just a promise. There's just a hope there, they're not back. Um, but God has given them a very tangible, I think, hope. And just that nod to back on your own soil. What a uh what a I think a grace and a gift.

SPEAKER_00 10:13

But how do you believe it? Right? I mean what makes one believe that God is gonna do any of this, right? I mean, when reality is pretty real, really bad, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:34

Right?

SPEAKER_02 10:35

Yeah. I have a hard time, honestly, connecting to the fullness of that reality that it's that bad. Because it's not that's not my reality. I think for most of us in the sanctuary on Sunday, it's not our reality.

SPEAKER_00 10:51

Oh no, right.

SPEAKER_02 10:52

That everything has been torn from us. Everything. Now, I I don't think it's fair to say nobody has that experience, but I definitely have not had that kind of pain in my life before. And it's so hard for me to imagine being that down and then being able to hope. And I lean into hope pretty hard. And so, but so like here I am, even just sort of trying to connect with the depth of their despair. So is it easy, not even close.

SPEAKER_00 11:32

Is it easier to be dead than hobbled or or or uh what is it? I don't care. I mean, uh just kind of blah.

SPEAKER_02 11:48

I mean, I mean, I like I I think what I'm what I mean to be saying is that I can't even imagine the depth of their despair. So I can't even begin to imagine how they hope out of that. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. I've not been a refugee from my homeland. I've not had to cross from Syria or um I haven't been the are Armenians. I, you know, I haven't been in a situation where my homeland is being taken over by somebody else and I am being tossed out. I haven't had that.

SPEAKER_00 12:37

Right. I don't know. The way I'm constructed is I'm more uh pessimistic about the world in which we live than optimistic. And because I'm more pessimistic, that weakens my I should be more optimistic just because of our faith, right? Just because this is what we believe in. Um that God can raise the dead, that God can turn stuff around. Right. Um knowing that what does that mean? Is that is that a is that an exercise in belief? Is that an exercise in trust? And then you know, then I get a little bit of faith without works is dead, kind of stuff, you know, all that kind of stuff. So um I mean it's just it's you know, it's interesting. I do think that the church I do think that if the church knew the power that it has, it would be a different thing.

SPEAKER_02 13:54

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:56

You know, a couple of weeks ago, Erin Lochner, who was one of our speakers at our conference, we were talking with a small group of folks and just talking about some things going on and how some things just feel really heavy. And she's she said, you know, I do not think that God is surprised by this. And I'm telling you, like I like what that did in my body that I I sort of maybe didn't realize I was carrying. I've been really like, why did that hit me so um so strongly? And I think because uh maybe it was an answer to the question that I didn't realize I've been carrying, or frustrated maybe with God. Like, do you care? Are you here? Do you see what's going on? Yeah, all the despair, all of the hurt, uh I mean, are are you here? And her saying about something totally different, I do not think God is surprised by this. I I I cannot stop thinking about it. And so I just wonder you know, if if scripture is to be trusted, which we believe that it is, it's just story after story after story of God breathing life. You cannot read this without hearing echoes of God in the garden breathing life in to the first people. So there's also this sense of like we have been here before, and God has been here before, and God is the only one that can breathe life. Uh and and and God has, right? Like, is that enough to like hang our hats on? God has breathed life again and again and again, and God is not surprised by the goings-on of the world, and only God can and only God and God will breathe life over and over again. Also, it must be infuriating for God. But but that aside, yeah. I mean, is that enough to hang your hats on?

SPEAKER_02 16:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:49

I think so. And I am one that can tend towards pessimism as well, Donovan.

SPEAKER_00 16:56

Well, you know, the you know, that is you know, if you are raised from the dead, that would probably make you the most powerful person in the world, right? I mean, what do you have to fear? You have been raised from that which we probably fear the most, death.

SPEAKER_03 17:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:18

And so we are people who are baptized into the death and raised. I mean, this is foundational to who we are. And yet I feel as though most of us feel as though we're living in a tomb, you know, that you know, or or we're going into a tomb, but we're not being called out of we haven't been called out of one. Which to me is weak Christianity. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:49

But it's easy to be dead. Back to your question, right? Like easy to be dead. I mean, I wonder to be brought back to if you're this valley of bones, what in the heck happened here? And like, do I want to be a part of like joining in with God to bring back life? That feels so overwhelming and hard. I love your question. Like, would I rather have just been dead?

SPEAKER_02 18:16

Yeah. I think it seems like we come back to this every so often, especially just the three of us. This happened before where hope came up and we were talking about it. And actually, now we're like, hope, what? What are you not getting about hope? Although that's not really a fair explanation. But I think hope is, and I do tend toward the optimistic. I do. Um, but hope is an optimism.

SPEAKER_00 18:47

That's why I jump into your office on the page.

SPEAKER_01 18:50

That's exactly right. That's why Stephanie must have an open door policy for the sake of all of us here.

SPEAKER_02 18:57

Guys, excuse me. But hope isn't optimism. Hope is it is faith and trust and all those things together. Hope is God has done this. I think I'm feeling like based on the things you were just saying, Ashley, hope is God has done this before, and there's no reason to assume God isn't going to do something again. There's no reason to assume that God is not active because of the biblical witness, even though we can feel like God is so far away. Um, the biblical witness shows us God's not. Other people have felt that before. And somehow, to me, this Ezekiel passage, it is so important, especially right now where we are in the world, to really think about what it means to be in exile, to have been thrown out, to have had your world completely turned upside down, whether it's by war, whether it's by someone taking over, whether it's whatever it is, to really imagine how horrible that is. Because I think as Christians on a daily basis, we may not always come in touch with that particular kind of pain, but we're gonna come in touch with people who have a pain that we can't understand, even if it is, even if it looks like something we've experienced, it's not gonna be the same. It just isn't. And there's something we know in those situations, there's something powerful about just showing up. Just showing up and walking with people through that. And I think that's what helps me to have the hope and to connect to the hope in this situation. Because you're right, it's not done at the end of the chapter. This is still something that is promised. Um and I think that's the opportunities that I get to have with people to walk with them through hard times are because God is busy. Like I feel like that's why God puts us out there to walk. Well, may we may not be able to explain it, but yet God is present, God is doing something. And I'm gonna stand here with you while it may be hard to believe that and just hold that truth for you and walk through it with you.

SPEAKER_01 21:22

Yeah, I think the holding it for each other when we can't hold it for ourselves is one of the greatest calls of being a faithful people.

SPEAKER_03 21:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:36

I think I think uh Christianity is so bizarre that I do think that the hope is lived. I mean, it's like we're crazy that the hope is lived now.

SPEAKER_03 21:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:57

And uh

SPEAKER_00 22:00

And that it should just burst forth out of us. That it you know that um and I think that may be it might break some things that we hold as being even socially correct or politically correct. Because we don't know any better. I and I I don't want to say that that sounds wrong. It does sound wrong. Uh it's wrong. Um but I think because it breaks all the stuff white, black, male, female, all that kind of stuff. If anyone is in Christ, there's a new creation. Yes. We are idiots in love with the world.

unknown 23:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:01

And that probably will get us crucified because we don't know any better.

SPEAKER_03 23:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:08

But maybe that's what the world needs. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 23:15

I think that's one of the most beautiful things I've ever heard. We are idiots in love with the world.

SPEAKER_01 23:22

It reminds me of beautiful. That's Israel, right? Like it leaves us with a limp.

SPEAKER_03 23:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:27

You know, what what is it? What is it to you're did you just say like why why live now? Was that your phrase? You just said something or hope now, like why?

SPEAKER_00 23:40

Well, I just I think the hope is so real. It's like Mary in the Magnificat, you know, the hope the world's changed. It's not it will change. It yeah, it's already changed.

SPEAKER_03 23:54

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:56

And because of that, you know, I sing, which is like Mary, it hasn't changed a bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The reality is stinks. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 24:13

And that's the ultimate, that's it though, right? Like I think like I I don't know, Donovan. I love it. I just love your attitude because it's the it's the gospel, right? Like, I mean, like, what are we doing? Um, why, but we do, and then I do think like we we just we go through life with a limp because it was the Easter story, like because it's not finished. And it and we we will not finish it. God will. But I mean that is, you know, death doesn't death doesn't win. It's where we're headed. We gotta go through some stuff to get there, right, in the next few weeks. But but like I it is it is so bizarre. But I I do think the the tendency to want to my tendency to want to despair that is that is the story. I would totally despair. We would totally despair if all we saw was what is and our attempts to right all of the wrongs.

unknown 25:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:38

We have been we are called and we must play a part. But if we if all we can see is our attempts, I mean that that is that's the gospel, that that's the message, right? Like we it it will not be finished once and for all until Jesus returns.

SPEAKER_02 26:00

Right. And so we keep living in this imperfect world with this hope that even if it doesn't make sense to us, like I'm hearing Donovan say, This hope, I just want to lay it down, but I cannot. And he's just as frustrated with wanting to lay it down as he is that he cannot. And in that, it's encouragement for him. I'm telling you what, it's a journey watching this man in this room on these microphones.

SPEAKER_00 26:27

Therapy. Therapy.

SPEAKER_01 26:29

You can build Stephanie later.

SPEAKER_02 26:32

I didn't even do it. I just love idiots in love with this world. Like I, oh my gosh, I want to wear clothes that say that now.

SPEAKER_01 26:40

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:44

All right. Let's I'm gonna ask Stephanie to pray as well.

SPEAKER_02 26:49

Okay, let's pray together. Lord God, you have given us these scriptures and you show us time and time again that the world falls apart to the eyes of those you've created, but never to your eyes, because you are always creating. You are always making things new, and you have shown this to your people from the very beginning, and now we are part of that. Lord, you have so much planned for this world that we can't imagine, but you have us right here in this world right now. So give us this thing called hope. Help us to carry the promise that you have spoken to us as you have to so many before us. Help us to carry it in a way that others are drawn to it. And Lord, let them bring their pain, let them bring their despair. And help us to sit with them. Help us to speak your name to them. Help us to know that your promises are always true. Lord, we thank you for your love. We thank you for pouring it out on this world every day. And we ask that you will help us to be lovers in your name, just idiots who are in love with this world because you made it. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen. Amen.