Westminster Talking the Text
A Lectionary Podcast at Westminster Presbyterian Church
Westminster Talking the Text
Westminster Talking the Text Podcast for Sunday, March 29, 2026 | Palm Sunday | Matthew 21:1-11 | with Donovan Drake, Guy D. Griffith, Stephanie Boaz, Ashley Higgins, & Will Wellman
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Westminster Talking the Text Podcast for Sunday, March 29, 2026 | Palm Sunday | Matthew 21:1-11 | with Donovan Drake, Guy D. Griffith, Stephanie Boaz, Ashley Higgins, & Will Wellman
Matthew 21:1-11
Jesus enters Jerusalem
21:1When they had come near Jerusalem and had reached Bethphage, at the Mount of Olives, Jesus sent two disciples,
21:2saying to them, "Go into the village ahead of you, and immediately you will find a donkey tied and a colt with her; untie them and bring them to me.
21:3If anyone says anything to you, just say this, 'The Lord needs them.' And he will send them immediately."
21:4This took place to fulfill what had been spoken through the prophet;
21:5"Tell the daughter of Zion, Look, your king is coming to you, humble and mounted on a donkey, and on a colt, the foal of a donkey."
21:6The disciples went and did as Jesus had directed them;
21:7they brought the donkey and the colt and put their cloaks on them, and he sat on them.
21:8A very large crowd spread their cloaks on the road, and others cut branches from the trees and spread them on the road.
21:9The crowds that went ahead of him and that followed were shouting, "Hosanna to the Son of David! Blessed is the one who comes in the name of the Lord! Hosanna in the highest heaven!"
21:10When he entered Jerusalem, the whole city was in turmoil, asking, "Who is this?"
21:11The crowds were saying, "This is the prophet Jesus from Nazareth in Galilee."
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Welcome to another Talking the Text. I'm Donovan.
SPEAKER_01I'm Ashley. I'm Stephanie. I'm Guy.
SPEAKER_05I'm Will. And it is already Palm Sunday, which also becomes Passion Sunday sometime in the service. And our text is from Matthew 21. And let's have a word of prayer. Let's pray. Holy God, gracious God, loving God, we give you thanks and praise for this day that you have made. And as we read your text and discuss it, we pray your spirit be with us. And we ask this in your son's name. Amen. All right, Matthew 21. And uh we'll see how far we go, just to make Ashley mad.
SPEAKER_02I love it, keep going.
SPEAKER_05Okay. Matthew 21. When they had come near Jerusalem and had reached Beth Page at the Mount of Olives, Jesus sent two disciples, saying to them, Go into the village ahead of you, and immediately you will find a donkey tied and a colt wither, and tie them and bring them to me. If anyone says anything to you, just say this the Lord needs them, and he will send them immediately. This took place to fulfill what had been spoken through the prophet, tell the daughter of Zion, Look, your king is coming to you humble and mounted on a donkey and on a colt, the fold of a donkey. The disciples went and did as Jesus had directed them. They brought the donkey and the colt and put their cloaks on them, and he sat on them. A very large crowd spread their cloaks on the road, and others cut branches from trees and spread them on the road. The crowds that went ahead of him and that followed were shouting, Hosanna to the Son of David, blessed is the one who comes in the name of the Lord, Hosanna in the highest heaven. When he entered Jerusalem, the whole city was in turmoil, asking, Who is this? And the crowds were saying, This is the prophet Jesus from Nazareth in Galilee. Then Jesus entered the temple, drove out all who were selling and buying in the temple, and he overturned the tables of the money changers and the seeds of those who sold the doves, and he said to them, It is written, My house shall be called a house of prayer, but you are making it a den of robbers. The blind and the lame came to him in the temple and he cured them. But when the chief priests and the scribes saw the amazing things that he did and heard the children crying out in the temple and saying, Hosanna to the son of David, and became angry and said to him, Do you hear what these are saying? And Jesus said to them, Yes. Have you not read out of the mouths of infants and nursing babies, you have prepared praise for yourself? He left them, went out of the city to the Bethany, and spent the night there. The word of the Lord. Okay, that was too long. We usually cut it off at um what eleven? Yeah. I don't think that was too long. I don't think so.
SPEAKER_01Depends on your focus. What do you want to focus on?
SPEAKER_05Right?
SPEAKER_01Riding two donkeys at one time? That's what I would like to talk about.
SPEAKER_05What is that about? Matthew just don't just doesn't know his Hebrew. Or is he up to something?
unknownLove it.
SPEAKER_05Seems pretty crazy if he doesn't know his Hebrew.
SPEAKER_02I'm guessing that's not what's happening.
SPEAKER_05Let's hope not. You don't have any thoughts on that, Will? No. Okay. All right. So he has uh he's riding two animals this morning, as opposed to one. And um how's this for a beginning for you hope monsters out there? That you have hope in this guy, and yet, boy, just it's not who you thought it was.
SPEAKER_00That is how this day goes. Right? Yes, that is how this day goes.
SPEAKER_02And at the end of the day, don't we hope that he's not who we hope he is?
SPEAKER_06Good one.
SPEAKER_02Or want him to be, or act like he is? I I think that's the question.
SPEAKER_03Will we sing my song is Love Unknown? Because I love the way sometimes they strew his way, his sweet praises sing, resounding all the day, Hosanas to the king, then crucify is all their breath, and for his death they thirst and cry. I don't know of a better piece that moves us from palm to passion Sunday in a phrase than that. Such a quick turn. And um in in my first church, we would we would actually leave the sanctuary in silence uh to enter into Holy Week. Um and I I I do think if you go just from the Hosanna's of Palm Sunday to Alleluia of Easter, you miss everything.
SPEAKER_02Everything.
SPEAKER_03But what happens when he's not who you think he is? And is that good news?
SPEAKER_07Right.
SPEAKER_05Well, I mean that goes again to my question about hope.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_05If our hope is not what it's supposed to be, then what is it? So right. So this sometimes Palm Sunday is called False Easter because we all dress up and sing our Hosanna's and the children sing and children bring the palm branches down, and it's very upbeat and nice.
SPEAKER_01That's God's bell?
SPEAKER_03No. No, we don't. That's uh superstar.
SPEAKER_01Superstar. That's right.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Hmm. Do y'all think the Palm Sunday is connected to the I mean, obviously they follow each other, but what's the connection between um Palm Sunday and then immediately going to Clinton Temple?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I mean one one um person that I read said this is as political as it gets the temple? This all of it.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um, this is as political as it gets. And and I certainly have a hard time arguing with that. Which is not something people are comfortable with very often, but glad you asked.
SPEAKER_02What do you think?
SPEAKER_04I I don't know. I just I you know, I'm so used to following the lectionary and just thinking about it in the Matthew in year A as just the the Palm Sunday. But the the temple's usually the reason given for why he's crucified. He's he's disrupting the kind of religious order, the the you know, the economy of the of the temple. He's causing he he's just stirring things up.
SPEAKER_05But he he becomes a a prophet, right? That the temp that the temple has become a safe place for robbers.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and who is this right before this? Who is it? This is the prophet Jesus from from Nazareth.
SPEAKER_05And so he clears out the temple because they're not caring for the orphans or the widows or the blind or um because what does he do? He doesn't heal right after that? What did I read that?
SPEAKER_04Uh verse 14. The blind and lame came to him in the temple and he cured them.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, so that's that's the real purpose for the temple, and they've turned it into a safe place to lie, steal and cheat.
SPEAKER_04It is such an interesting thing to think about this like procession, and the way it's framed is this like celebration, and we all know what happens next, right? He's gonna get crucified. But I I don't know. I this is just really sticking out to me, this idea that there's this celebration of this person, this exclamation or this question, who is this? Right? Uh verse 10 says, When he entered Jerusalem, the whole city was in turmoil asking, Who is this? And and the crowd say, This is the prophet Jesus. And and it's almost like, well, the procession doesn't mean anything. What means something is what happens in the temple. Uh, you know, uh a clarification of what the temple is for, the healing, uh, the children are crying out. Um, I don't know. That just sticks out to me. Also, the the city being in turmoil, um, I was listening to a podcast and they reminded me that that word turmoil is the same word that happens uh after the crucifixion when there's the earth is in turmoil, right? The earth the earthquake after the veil splits.
SPEAKER_01Isn't it something like seismic?
SPEAKER_05Like seismic. Matthew used, you know, the city's in turmoil when the the magi come in Jerusalem. Jerusalem's always always in turmoil.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, there's this repeat.
SPEAKER_04And it's a cosmic too.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_04It's it's not just human it's the earth is doing it after the crucifixion.
SPEAKER_01Well, and I and I know that that we often point to the temple being the turning point when finally they're like, all right, we're gonna get him now. But this has all been building, building, building, building. And so it maybe it's kind of this this point when everything sort of breaks loose, but but this is where ultimately the leaders were wanting it to go already. They were hoping for him to do something that then would be actionable in a way that people around him would agree, around them would agree.
SPEAKER_05Right. And uh if you're reading this for the first time, you play along. But if you know the story, you go you idiots, what are you doing, right? Yeah or whatever, right? So if the first function of the text is to go, oh, this this is gonna lead to something good and then we get it wrong. How do how do you preach uh the unknowing uh what we what we know is wrong or something, right? Um the surprise of the of God.
SPEAKER_02Can you say more?
SPEAKER_05Well, I mean, to me it's like Palm Sunday is functioning the first time if you're in Mark's gospel, it's like these people don't get who he is and they're proclaiming all this thing, and he uh you know he the crowd turns and boy, okay, that's a surprise how how quickly, as he said, goes from Hosanna to Crucify, and this is all new. So we're i if you're watching the parade and you're doing this for the first time, you have no idea what's going to happen next, right?
SPEAKER_07Right. Right.
SPEAKER_05So if that's the function of the original sense of the writer, to go, okay, here comes your twist, here comes your surprise. We're not at the twist yet, we're at the buildup to the twist.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Uh how how then do you surprise any of us today? Yeah. Um twist and shout, right? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I find um can I follow up on that?
SPEAKER_04Is that is that the point of of the preacher on on Palm Sunday? Is to like capture that surprise that's coming.
SPEAKER_05I I I don't know. I mean, I I think I always like to follow the narrative of the the writer, but you know, we are we know what's happening.
SPEAKER_03So I don't think we know the rest of the story. Now we know the rest of the story. We know the rest of the story. You can't get behind that.
SPEAKER_05And so and then so then because we know we're intelligence, and then uh you know So we know. I don't know, you know. I mean, or do we not know?
SPEAKER_04Well, wouldn't the question be in that knowledge, are we going to be the ones uh throwing down our garments and getting excited and celebrating this man like a king, or are we gonna be the ones standing at the bottom of the cross?
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_05I had a sermon on this that I really liked many years ago, and I used I saw a picture of children looking through the legs of uh Nazis uh at the parade, and they're all lovely pink-cheeked children excited about the parade of the of the king coming through. Um and the only time that that picture doesn't make sense is when you know what it's about, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know. So you know, what is that what is that for us? What is the Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Right? Who which Jesus are we we we following?
SPEAKER_05Right. And you know Sorry, you know, we've been on this kind of thing, you know, what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, love kindness, welcome. You know, we know, we know, we know. Um, you know, Lazarus and in Luke's gospel, you know, the uh risen from the dead, you know, send send somebody from my dead to warm up. Well, they know, they should know, right? And the cleansing of the temple. Well, you should know. You should know this. And yet we don't we we long for something different. We long for God to be our God, you know, made in our image or something. I don't know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And that that that's like so uh it seems so just common sense, and yet we just constantly are trying to shape Christ into the Christ we want Christ to be.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_04I I mean, like I I reference this all the time, but it's like when Peter can identify Christ as the Messiah, but completely misses the mark with Messiahship. And so it's easy for us to claim that Christ is the Son of God, is the incarnate one. It's really, really hard for us to follow that and not what we want that to be. Um I I was reading an article um recently, and it was uh Franklin Graham saying, people forget, but God is a god of war, talking about what's going on in the Middle East right now. Um and and and I'm just like, what Bible are we reading? You know, Christ goes to a cross and dies, but I I think that inclination is in all of us that we want Christ to be on our side, to do the things we want Christ to do. And it's really hard to make those sacrifices uh to live that path of discipleship that Christ is calling us to. It's much, much easier to kind of keep our lifestyles, um, you know, the way we we go about things, uh, and then just squeeze Christ into that.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. It it could be that the surprise Donovan for us is that we might be the crowd. And that we actually I think I think we need that reminder. We think we know the end of the story, and then we I think without even realizing it, place ourselves in a certain position. And so maybe the you know, and then and then we know who to judge, and we know who to blame, and we know, you know, where it's going and who the the the good guy or the bad guys are. But I think the surprise every like over and over again, I don't think it's a surprise that goes away either. Reading this, and is the surprise every time, every year, that we might be the crowd.
SPEAKER_04And the crowds, verse 11, the crowds are saying, after people ask, Who is this? This is the prophet Jesus from Nazareth in Galilee. That doesn't mean anything because they're gonna be screaming out, give us uh Barabbas, you know, in a couple days. And so just because you can say, you know, Jesus is a prophet, Jesus is X, Y, or Z, that doesn't mean squat. Uh what it it it's it's more are you gonna follow Jesus more than can you just claim, you know, Jesus is is unique or special or a prophet?
SPEAKER_01Right. Yeah, when you said before, one of you said, are we gonna be at the bottom of the at the foot of the cross? And um, and I wasn't sure whether you're referring to being there as one saying, yes, this is where he belongs, or being there as one who's saying, who's mourning. Yeah, yeah. You know? And um I think that I think that's worth paying attention to. Um I had another thought. Talk amongst yourselves.
SPEAKER_07It will come back to me.
SPEAKER_04Well, I I I I I I personally like I think you can take this in a kind of negative direction, right? Like Ashley and I are pointing toward is like, we're the crowds, we're the bad people. And you can stop there, but I think the inflection point is to continue asking, okay, I I I'm looking inward, I'm doing the critique. Now I have to clarify, discern within the community I'm a part of, where's Christ really calling us?
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And so I I think the element of you know, we could just be like, oh, it's it's it's Palm Sunday, we're going to Easter, and everything's great, and there's hope in this world. And that's that's good and well. But like, I do think what we're doing as we enter into Holy Week is we're having to kind of look inward at ourselves. Are we the crowd? Uh are we celebrating a false uh image of who we want Christ to be? But we have to kind of keep moving and get to that point um of going through the kind of right, that's the crucifixion. You're killing off, and you get to be reborn in Christ, uh, but that's a challenge, that's a sacrifice. And so I think that that passion narrative that a lot of us miss out on because of the busyness of life. Um it's a beautiful thing, it's extremely challenging, um, but it doesn't end uh it doesn't end with just the negativity of we're the crowd. We have to keep pushing past that. But that that self-critical reflection is really, really important.
SPEAKER_02And a part of the reflection has to be okay, what is the turn? And also realizing that we are not really capable ourselves of that, right? So then, like so then you go a step further to okay, well, what is happening on the cross to give us any chance of there being redemption, not just forever, you know, not just for heaven's sake, but right now. So what is the role that what God is up to in Christ? How does that play into who we're called to be, you know, right right now?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I th I was thinking just about the unknown, you know, getting it wrong. Um that if the that if you know do I have guardrails of getting it right? Do I have enough guardrails? that that keep me um I don't know. I mean I I wouldn't there's something enjoyable about saying yes I know Jesus. Right? And yet I don't know Jesus and I keep learning more about Jesus in each and every day with everybody whom I meet. And what I thought was Jesus turns into a new Jesus all the time, you know, right? But it you know it certainly helps kind of knowing that there is a path or or something, like a direction or something. Right?
SPEAKER_07Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_05But then we you know like you heard uh Graham say, you know, then you go, okay, so what what what Jesus is this? Right? Yeah. And I think that's the you know conflicts in the church or anything like that. It's it's it's people hearing and seeing a different Jesus and we're like what? Mm-hmm. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Like that like that old um imagery of standing and touching the elephant in different places. Right. Like that only works in this case if we're the church standing there touching this elephant and telling each other what we're feeling and seeing and figuring out how it all fits together into a picture that we may not be able to fully paint just yet, but we get more and more of the picture. Because I think you know it is it is true that these people really are sort of riding whatever wave there is in a city that like you pointed out Donovan is always in turmoil. So here is this point of celebration and this prophet who they've been hearing about they know he does amazing things how exciting he's here and then something scary happens in the temple even if people know that what he's saying is right it still disrupts everything and it's scary. And so it's easier then to sort of fall in line with those who um are bringing accusations against Jesus because here are the people they're just trying to find they just want to be safe just like we want to be safe. They're trying to figure out where is the safe place to be and I think the truth is that this world is always in turmoil and we're gonna feel not safe so much of the time and we can only find safety or hope in sharing what we know to be true about Jesus and looking for more of that story all the time.
SPEAKER_05I like that I'm also thinking about you know Matthew temple destroyed Matthew's community thrown out of the Jewish community Matthew's desire for the community to be the light of the world cranking the the uh sense of righteousness you know to eleven you know you have heard it said but I say to you so it's a it's a different crowd seeking to you know who knows who Jesus well who doesn't you know if you look at the sheep and the goat passage neither sheep nor a goat know but the sheep get it right um because at least they know that right uh they know the ways of the what the pure worship is a pure temple is. So um you know does this does this passage then in Matthew's gospel operate in a way of saying this yeah this is a false this is a false parade.
SPEAKER_03Yeah I mean is Matthew reminding us that we always are projecting on this one our deepest hopes and expectations and yet the cross then redefines what those deepest hopes and expectations are. Yeah yeah I like that and if we're able to see God's yes to the cross and yes to us does that inform the community how to live differently um I mean I do love Mesa Matthew and I you know I do think the the idea of that superabundant righteousness comes but it's a different picture post-cross and does the cross then you know send us back to the Beatitudes and send us back to the Sermon on the Mount and you know ultimately say this is our hope that we're living this way for these values rather than for the values of the world. You know we generally think of Mark's gospel the one that the cross drives us back to the beginning and then the kingdom is present in this one who's come. But I I haven't really thought of that move in Matthew's gospel the same way.
SPEAKER_05Yeah Matthew ends on the mountaintop again right and then then the commission. Right? And and the disciples worshiping and doubting and it's not until first you know Jesus all authority doesn't come until Jesus dies and is resurrected. Right. Right. And then the doubting when you're doubting you're sent out which is okay. And they saw him and doubted. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Which is just bonkers.
SPEAKER_05Right? Yeah but but beautiful and reassuring right doubting and yet you do these things just teach what I told you to teach you know yeah and and the more you teach and make disciples yeah the more you teach the more you understand.
SPEAKER_04Live in that live in that well yeah and I think like I I mean I think that's the the the whole gist of like kind of what we're circling around is like you can't tell the story uh in isolation it's the entirety of of Christ and that whole story is transformative. It changes you. If you open yourself to it it changes you in in ways that you might not want it at times. Oh go ahead I was just gonna say I like uh at my last church I did a um I created a service uh after Monday Thursday we would do it late at night around a fire um to remember Peter's betrayal and charcoal fire in John Peter goes from the like earnest you know do gooder uh to the one that just scatters denies Christ uh and then becomes the head of the church and like if if that can happen to Peter like you know what the the possibilities are endless for all of us that transformation. And that that that's through the encounter with Christ.
SPEAKER_03Yeah so I'm I'm sitting here thinking if we were expecting Jesus to have a parade today you know are we are we picturing showing up in the Pope Mobile or a um you know a stretch limo or what and you know he comes instead at you know beating up Volkswagen or something. You know this I haven't gotten over the horses yet. Two Volkswagens I guess right exactly maybe like a a cabrolet and a VW bug convertible I'll see the uh commercial with John Claude Van Damme doing a split on two semis.
SPEAKER_04There you go. Yeah like that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah all right boy that's a picture that'll stay with me.
SPEAKER_02Thanks I'll send that to you I'm curious I never almost done but just to pose this and then maybe we can talk about it more next week as we really are in the thick of everything. But I think the conversation that we've had uh has really centered on human action and that leading Jesus to the cross. So I'm curious how we have a conversation about what God is up to in all of this. Small little question at the end and well I mean I think my rage just can't let that go right like what's God doing and it could just become that like the the political system and the people who are disappointed crucified Jesus. Is it also true that God did this for the sake of our salvation.
SPEAKER_04Right right yeah but are they mutually exclusive?
SPEAKER_02I don't think they're mutually exclusive. I don't think that our I don't think the church big church big sea church does a good job of helping them not be mutually exclusive I guess I think I think it feels like the pendulum swings real hard from one to the other I will I wonder if people are just really hungry for or maybe it's just me.
SPEAKER_05You know is this next week this starting now in the next week is it a bad dog. Look what you did. The bad dog sermon. Right? I mean Monday Thursday Good Friday all that you know look boy you you you just keep getting Jesus we just keep getting Jesus wrong you know is that is that the you know ultimately I don't think that's the message what Paul says and all that kind of stuff but you know is there something to be said for does it take us down a few notches in our righteousness our unhealthy righteousness to to look at to look at that and does it give us more power than we actually have if we're not focusing on something bigger than just human action is this in this right like God is up to something are we too righteous and even thinking that we have that much authority to yeah I don't know.
SPEAKER_04But I I I do think that's a good question but I do think the thing isn't to say like look what God's doing it's what God's not doing. God's not going to war God's not you know sending lightning from the sky to stop the crucifixion God goes to the cross and gets crucified by the state and like I think that's the point about who God is. God meets our violence our hate our anger our emptiness our apathy our cynicism and just essentially takes it. Empties himself right to the point of death. Yeah that I mean yeah kenosis right Philippians but the that's not the end. Right but there's resurrection after that but we I I think that does say something about God. It's God's not a warrior God's not some omnipotent you know clouded uh guy sitting in the clouds God is uh becomes human becomes like us uh and meets all of those horrible depraved things about us yeah uh and takes it on and and goes through just you know if you want to talk about this like in a Calvinist way like through the just sinfulness of humanity the depravity of humanity it takes that on uh and then is resurrected yeah and and that's where God is at work is not um meeting like for like but doing something completely new and different I I I I mean we we're incredibly over time here but like it is it is like mystifying to me that that's what God does.
SPEAKER_05Yeah agreed uh the cross is just completely mystifying what's mystifying to me though is that we are to we are to be like that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah we want Palm Sunday right that that would be nice we don't want the passion the crucifixion and yet that's the path that God goes to and that's what Paul talks about right dying in Christ and being you know born in Christ.
SPEAKER_05Okay well for the the last listener the one listener who's still with us we are we're gonna have a closing prayer let's pray holy God um you are there for us when we don't know who you are and you are there for us when we think we know who you are and we're not right about that and you are there for us when we call you the Messiah the Christ and yet want to keep you from a cross Lord you are there for us and we are grateful for your grace upon grace in you is your son's name we pray. Amen