Westminster Talking the Text Podcast for Sunday, April 5, 2026 | Easter Sunday | John 20:1-18 | with Donovan Drake, Guy D. Griffith, Stephanie Boaz, Ashley Higgins, & Will Wellman

Westminster Talking the Text Podcast for Sunday, April 5, 2026 | Easter Sunday | John 20:1-18 | with Donovan Drake, Guy D. Griffith, Stephanie Boaz, Ashley Higgins, & Will Wellman

John 20:1-18

Seeing the risen Christ 

20:1

Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene came to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the tomb.

20:2

So she ran and went to Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one whom Jesus loved, and said to them, "They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid him."

20:3

Then Peter and the other disciple set out and went toward the tomb.

20:4

The two were running together, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first.

20:5

He bent down to look in and saw the linen wrappings lying there, but he did not go in.

20:6

Then Simon Peter came, following him, and went into the tomb. He saw the linen wrappings lying there,

20:7

and the cloth that had been on Jesus's head, not lying with the linen wrappings but rolled up in a place by itself.

20:8

Then the other disciple, who reached the tomb first, also went in, and he saw and believed,

20:9

for as yet they did not understand the scripture, that he must rise from the dead.

20:10

Then the disciples returned to their homes.

20:11

But Mary stood weeping outside the tomb. As she wept, she bent over to look into the tomb,

20:12

and she saw two angels in white sitting where the body of Jesus had been lying, one at the head and the other at the feet.

20:13

They said to her, "Woman, why are you weeping?" She said to them, "They have taken away my Lord, and I do not know where they have laid him."

20:14

When she had said this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not know that it was Jesus.

20:15

Jesus said to her, "Woman, why are you weeping? Whom are you looking for?" Supposing him to be the gardener, she said to him, "Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have laid him, and I will take him away."

20:16

Jesus said to her, "Mary!" She turned and said to him in Hebrew, "Rabbouni!" (which means Teacher).

20:17

Jesus said to her, "Do not touch me, because I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"

20:18

Mary Magdalene went and announced to the disciples, "I have seen the Lord," and she told them that he had said these things to her.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:04

Well that's another talking the text, and I'm Donovan. I'm Will.

SPEAKER_01 0:08

I'm Guy. I'm Ashley. I'm Stephanie.

SPEAKER_05 0:12

And it is holy week. And uh seems odd to do an Easter passage without remembering that by some of you may be hearing this on Tuesday. So we've got some time ahead of us. And we have Monday Thursday at what time on Thursday at seven. And um the text from Monday Thursday is always John chapter 13, in which he offers the new commandment. And what is the new commandment? To love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also must love one another. So it's a commandment of love. Moldatus. And then the next day we have Good Friday. And in John's Gospel, Jesus is very much in control of even his own death, right? Go to darkest.

SPEAKER_01 1:15

I agree with that, everyone. Just remember this is the passion of Christ. Yes. It's gonna be a little suffering.

SPEAKER_05 1:25

So uh Yeah, so in John 19, it says, After this, when Jesus knew that all was now finished, he said, in order to fulfill scripture, I am thirsty. And a jar full of sour wine was standing there, so they put a sponge full of wine on a branch. And when Jesus had received the wine, he said, It is finished. Then he bowed his head and gave up his spirit. John has a Jesus that's very much in control, even in the end.

SPEAKER_04 1:55

That sour wine was um hyssop uh was and that was what was used in the original Passover to put blood on the doors of the houses uh so that the angel of death would pass over. So there's a real interesting arc between the Old Testament story of Passover and Jesus being the Passover Lamb.

SPEAKER_01 2:27

Nice.

SPEAKER_05 2:29

And if a sponge of vinegar should be passed you on a stick, take that too, for souls are made of endurance. Somebody wrote that.

SPEAKER_04 2:42

Next thing I know, you'll be guided by North Stars or something.

SPEAKER_05 2:45

There we go, there we go. The City of Big Shoulders guy. Oh, Carl Sanford. Thank you. You're welcome. All right. So we're gonna read from John 20 for the Easter text all the way to 18, 1 through 18. John 20, 1 through 18. But before we do it, let's have a word of prayer. Well, holy God, we give you thanks and praise for a day that you have made, and we rejoice, we are glad in it, we are grateful for this week, and we pray that your spirit help us and guide us through this week. And we pray that your spirit be with us now as we read your scripture, be in our thoughts and our voices. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen. Amen. Amen.

SPEAKER_06 3:33

Amen.

SPEAKER_05 3:34

So, from John 20, one through eighteen, hear the word of God. Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene came to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the tomb. So she ran and went to Simon Peter and the other disciples, the one whom Jesus loved, and said to them, They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid him. Then Peter and the other disciples set out and went toward the tomb. The two were running together, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first. He bent down to look in and saw the linen wrapping lying there, but he did not go in. Then Simon Peter came, followed him, and went into the tomb. He saw the linen wrappings lying there, and the cloth that had been on Jesus' head, not lying with the linen wrappings, but rolled up in a place by itself. Then the other disciple who reached the tomb first also went in, and he saw and believed, for as yet they did not understand the scripture that he must rise from the dead. Then the disciples returned to their homes. But Mary stood weeping outside the tomb. As she wept, she bent over to look into the tomb, and she saw two angels in white sitting there, sitting where the body of Jesus had been lying, one at the head and the other at the feet. They said to her, Woman, why are you weeping? And she said to them, They have taken away my Lord, and I do not know where they have laid him. And when she had said this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not know it was Jesus. Jesus said to her, Woman, why are you weeping? Whom are you looking for? Supposing him to be the gardener, she said to him, Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have laid him, and I will take him away. And Jesus said to her, Marai, Mary, and she turned and said to her in Hebrew, Rabunai, which means teacher. Jesus said to her, Do not touch me because I have not yet ascended to the Father, but go to my brother and say to them, I am ascending to my father and your father to my God and your God. And Mary Magdalene went and announced to the disciples, I have seen the Lord, and she told them that he had said these things to her, the word of the Lord. All right.

SPEAKER_04 5:49

One of my favorite artists, um Henry Oswa Tanner, a really gifted African-American uh American artist, uh, did a lot of his work over in France, has a facility of painting biblical characters. And in the uh Chicago Art Institute, there's one of his of Peter and the beloved disciple running to the tomb that I always think of when I read this text. And I think it's so interesting how Jesus kind of accommodates himself to different kinds of belief. The beloved disciple just sees the tombs empty, he believes. Peter's got to go in and fiddle around with the gravecrows. Mary needs the voice. Uh later on, you know, Thomas wasn't there when Jesus shows up to the others. And Jesus is like, hey, if you want to play with a hole in my hand and my side, if that's what it takes for you, good. And then there's that line, you know, and uh for those of you who are not here and still believe, uh, there's this kind of concentric circle that shows Jesus willing to do what's necessary to meet you where you are to help you believe that I love at the end of John's gospel.

SPEAKER_01 7:21

I really love this one-on-one time that Mary has with Jesus. That she, I mean, she's so distraught, and of course, finding Jesus not there, she runs to her friends, to her brothers, and tells them what's happened, and they come back with her, and they leave dismayed, confused. Um, and she stands there a little longer weeping, which makes so much sense because she came there to do the rites of mourning for Jesus, you know. And so she stands there weeping, and then she gets to have this encounter with Jesus all by herself, which is just so special. Um I've heard it sort of referred to as kind of Mary's specific calling to be a disciple.

SPEAKER_05 8:21

Yeah, what do you make of the um the first also went in he he saw and believed whereas yet they did not understand the scripture. What that's a hard turn there. What did he believe?

SPEAKER_01 8:42

That's a good question.

SPEAKER_03 8:44

It's just duo. So it's it's faith. So I I think it uh I was just looking it up. Uh David Benling Hart in his New Testament translated it as um. So the other disciple, the one having come first to the tomb, also entered and he saw and had faith. Yeah, um Peter, I'm sorry, go ahead. Oh, go ahead. No, no, no. I I I was just gonna say, like, I I I probably harp on this too much, but I I do think just because of like our modern worldview, we think of like belief in this very like intellectual, almost empirical way. And I think it's talking more about belief in the sense of like this is the Christ. Think about the just despair these disciples must have experienced, this person that they thought was the Messiah, that they'd been following, that they'd given their lives, they dropped everything and followed him. Um they probably went through incredible scorn and ridicule for doing that. Uh and the high point of of Palm Sunday uh turns in the blink of an eye, and all of a sudden he's being executed by the state. Uh and so when I think of believe, I don't think it's like, oh, he's he's resurrected or anything like that. I think it's more this just like almost this gospel moment of oh no, this is actually the Messiah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:21

Uh Peterson and the message uh renders that then the other disciple, the one who had gotten there first, went into the tomb, took one look at the evidence, and believed. No one yet knew from the scripture that he had to rise from the dead. Um so I I I like that. Uh I think in my own theology, uh I truly believe Jesus is who he says he is because of Easter. Um I I take uh the virgin birth as an article of faith um because of the belief that the Easter really shows who he is, right? Um and uh I like that these disciples and Mary kind of are at different places with this, that it's not just kind of monolithic. They all saw the empty tune and it was there, right? And you know that Mary needs to hear the voice. Um I just I I really love the the different ways people come uh to that belief in this text.

SPEAKER_03 11:44

The can can I say something more about that? Verses eight and nine in the N RSV, it says, um, the other disciple saw and believed, and then nine goes, for as yet they did not understand the scripture, and the word for Saul and understand is the same. So you you could literally say he saw and believed, for as yet they did not see the scripture, or he understood and believed, and then he on they haven't understood the scripture. And I I think that there's kind of an excess or like an experiential moment happening here with the encounter of Christ, but like the work of the church is this memory, this living memory, and interpreting and making sense of it, because memory's all over this. Like at the very beginning of John's gospel, it says um they didn't understand the scripture, but later they remembered what happened. And so I I think this the beauty of Greek is like a word can contain multiple meanings, where in English I think we're the bandwidth of meaning is much smaller. Yeah. And it oh, I was just gonna say, so I I think here it's like there's a physical seeing of Christ that it it it parallels this like deep understanding of Christ that isn't, again, intellectual, but like deeply tied into faith and proclamation and and and you know good news.

SPEAKER_05 13:05

I'd like the going back to John 14, do not let your hearts be troubled, believe in God, believe also in me. In my father's house there are many dwelling places. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? And if I go to prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself. And I'm wondering if it is also a little bit of a play on the Lazarus text, where where you go in and come out of the tomb, Jesus, Lazarus goes in and comes out of the tomb, Jesus goes in and comes out of the tomb, and now it's your turn, beloved disciple.

SPEAKER_03 13:40

Right? Yeah, yeah. And you come out different. Right. Yeah. And so it's mimicking what's happening with Christ. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 13:48

And but it's interesting that to me, it's like, is it Peter who sees like the goes into the great details of the earth? The thing, you know, here's the head cloth. It's not with this one, but it's over here rolled up by, you know, it's like, okay. And then Mary looks in and sees angels. You know, right, right. Doesn't see the cloth stuff, you know. It's like, what you know. It's like, is it missing on some? I uh I always question whether the beloved disciple is it's us, the reader.

SPEAKER_00 14:26

I love that even just You would think your beloved.

SPEAKER_02 14:30

Well I don't think it.

SPEAKER_04 14:32

His mama loved him best. Come on. Yeah. Donnie baby.

SPEAKER_01 14:36

Go after sleep.

SPEAKER_04 14:37

Sorry, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:38

Go actually.

SPEAKER_00 14:39

Go actually. No, just the fact that Peter is invited in after his whole journey of you know, denial. And then it's in Mark's gospel where uh the women, you know, they're talking to the young man, it is in Mark, dressed in a white robe, and he says, um, but go tell his disciples and Peter. So that just just the humanity of Peter and there's Meredith Miller in her book Wonder, she retells some of the story and um talks about the women coming in and just like gasping, you know, like they can only say one word at a time, and and finally they kind of catch their breath. And her her writing says one scanned the room until she saw him. Peter, they locked eyes. The angel said to tell you Jesus is alive. I just love that. I mean that that Peter continues to be invited in and then jumps out of the boat later, you know, Jesus is cooking breakfast.

SPEAKER_04 15:57

Um on a charcoal fire.

SPEAKER_00 16:00

Yeah, and and he again, her her retelling of that, you know, he asked, Do you love me, feed my sheep three times? Um and then her telling us, you know, then Jesus told Peter that his new life ahead would be hard and said, Follow me. They were back at the beginning. Follow me. Peter could decide yes or no. And Peter knew with Jesus alive, everything was different now. And he said yes. The invitation to follow again after he'd messed up so bad. I'd that just gives me so much hope. Um So that's what I think about the all the all the storylines of how each person is experiencing this differently. I just think that's beautiful.

SPEAKER_04 16:44

I think Matthew's gospel says there was fear and great joy. And I just think about all those mixed emotions, you know, that are side by side uh in the midst of this. And I think too of folks who come to worship on Easter who have mixed emotions, who have lost a loved one uh in this year and you know, um are choking out the words of the songs, or for those for whom it's hard to sing, hallelujah. Um, it's um uh and yet in the midst of all of those mixed emotions truly is our our hope.

SPEAKER_01 17:27

I mean kind of going back to um to Will a little bit, you know, you were talking about this believing isn't like completely getting it or fully understanding. I guess I'm starting to think of it in terms of believing that okay, I don't know exactly what's happening, but something's happening. And believing that that God is up to something, that Jesus is up to something. Like not even being able to fully say, okay, all this makes sense because of what Jesus has said before, but Jesus is up to something.

SPEAKER_03 18:06

Yeah, I it it to me it's like it's twofold, right? There's the the the witness that happens they they see the empty tomb and there's a a seeing and a believing, which is like embodied experiential, but then right after that says they did not understand the scripture that he must rise from the dead, and that's the more like intellectually placing it, but like it's always the embodied experiential faith and then the understanding. Yeah, and so I mean I I think all of us can speak to our faith in in in ways that you know as seminary trained pastors would make sense and fit within the traditions of the church, but like there are specific moments in our lives that like are undeniable the presence of God. And we don't analyze that first from our tradition.

unknown 19:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:11

We use the tradition after that. And I think that's what's happening. We're in the in the like in the in situ, like this is happening in real time.

SPEAKER_04 19:20

Transforming moment.

SPEAKER_03 19:21

Right. And I think like like you were pointing toward Donovan with like maybe the the beloved disciple is us, is like I said me. Well, yeah. We we understand what you meant. You're using the royal we. This is okay. 51 weeks of the year, but not this week. But but but I would I real quickly to like pull pull this back. Um I I I think one of the things that that is happening here is like John's referring to the scripture, and I think like most interpretations of that is like, well, it's the the Hebrew Bible. But I mean he's writing this, and at the end of it, he even acknowledges like it can't contain books. And so like I I think John is deliberately kind of referencing our interaction with this text, this gospel that he's writing, um, as a as a place to pull us into this as well.

SPEAKER_05 20:23

I still like the idea that of 14 that I go to prepare a place for you. And so you're going into you're going this tomb thing is really real. And so um almost believing that whatever this is leads to death and not yet understanding the resurrection, right? Yeah. And I think about you know, fear and joy and all that kind of thing as you know, if I was Saul and turned to Paul, I would have both joy and fear, right? Because suddenly I've got to speak about this thing that will make no sense to anyone. And what do I do with that?

SPEAKER_04 21:13

I think um having led, as you have, uh trips to the Holy Land and in Jerusalem and and even in Bethlehem, um, some of our people w weren't appreciative very much of the great holy sites, the Church of the Nancy in Bethlehem, the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem, uh, which is reportedly over the site of both the crucifixion and the resurrection. And, you know, too many icons, too much smells and bells. And then we go outside of Jerusalem to the garden tomb. And almost to a person, our folks were just blown away. By that simple tomb and those wonderful English folks who take it and say, you know, you're not looking for a site, you're looking for a savior, and and all of that. And I have to say that that's a very moving place in the midst of that crazy city to quietly contempt uh contemplate this week. Yeah. I I mean I'm I'm so grateful that we have the solemnity of Monday Thursday, we're led by the choir and hear the thump of that cross on Good Friday and are invited to hit sit in holy silence on Saturday before we come to Easter. It's the great three days. And uh while there's a little bit of laughter on a uh Tuesday morning uh come Thursday, uh it's a very different feel as we lean into uh this experience. I remember when I was in seminary, uh I went to a Good Friday service at Trinity Episcopal across the street from the seminary, and it was the traditional noon to three Good Friday service. And I had grown up with an Episcopal priest family, and when I'd go to worship with them, I would refuse to kneel. I'm a Presbyterian, I don't do that kind of thing. Well I uh I had I had been a chaperone on a ski retreat for youth in the church I was serving at about a week before, and uh I had caught a tip and uh did uh some damage to my knee and was waiting to get scoped. And so I was in a knee brace and I was sitting in the church and some baritone or bass was up in the balcony singing, Were You There? And I was, I mean, I wanted to kneel so badly, I couldn't kneel, right? So I'm kind of laughing and crying. Okay, Lord, you have my attention. You know, I've uh uh but uh I just think you know one of the other gifts of this week is you think about where you've been in the past in different relations to the story.

SPEAKER_06 24:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:22

Um, I can remember I had a tradition when I growing up in Bethlehem, my dad and I would go early on Easter morning to uh God's Acre, the original Moravian graveyard, and you'd stand around the graveyard and there'd be a trombone choir, and you would sing the Easter hymns across the gravestones. And we we took when I went off to college uh to calling, I would call him first thing on Easter morning, and he has risen. And uh the first Easter after he died and not being able to make that call, but so grateful that that had been part of our tradition. And you know, so you you sort of think, or at least I do, when I come in and you know, to have quiet moments in these worship. Uh I love that Monday, Thursday, and even the Good Friday, there are moments of quiet contemplation in those services that can allow you to reflect over the the the rhythm of your life and the history, where you've been at different places as we celebrate this central part of our faith journey. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 25:36

And then trying to figure out what resurrection means to how does that change how does that rock our world, right?

SPEAKER_01 25:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:46

Yeah. Well, I mean, we've got a Kierkegaardian over here next to me. And uh, you know, in the concluding unscientific prose strip, the the front question asks, you know, if if there is a historical event that changes things, does that matter? And you know, I think for me, reading Kierkegaard when I was a collegian, realizing that to me is the central question. If he got up on the third day, what does that mean? Does does that mean my allegiance is there and I live into that or not? Um, for me, the resurrection is the central fact of our faith. And it it allows me, even in the midst of great challenges, to have hope. Um that God isn't done with us yet. God's not done with me. Uh Jonathan Kozal's wonderful book, Ordinary Resurrections, you know, talks about um it it because it actually happened, it can be an effective metaphor. And I think of those places where in my own life the stone was not rolled away and got rolled away, and that there was new life. Um So for me, being a resurrection people uh means we are people who believe that God is not done with us yet.

SPEAKER_00 27:14

Donovan, I liked a couple of weeks ago. It might have been when it was just you, me, and Stephanie, that podcast that Guy thought was so awful. Awful.

SPEAKER_05 27:22

Yeah. No, hopeless. Hopeless.

SPEAKER_01 27:25

I thought it was all our guts were out. So vulnerable.

SPEAKER_00 27:30

But you asked, I think it was that one or it was last week. But you asked the question. We sort of got on this like, sometimes dead is easier. Right. And I I can't stop thinking about that. So that's hitting me differently this year. Like, yes, we say that we are resurrection people, uh, but do we want to be right? Like sometimes dead is easier, and especially when the world feels really chaotic to say that we believe in all of this and have been invited to be a part of it. Uh that takes a lot. So I'm just I have just have this image this year that I had don't know that I've ever had before. Do I choose to come back out of the tomb? Right. Right? Like, or because man, some days it would just be easier just to stay there. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_05 28:29

Yeah. And I think that, you know, that escapism of that, you know, and I remember the widow and the widower and all the people in my life who, you know, who have said, you know, at least at least he doesn't have to go through this, or at least she doesn't have to go through all that kind of thing. Right. And but I think e those people don't think that person's dead. I mean, I think it's just that, you know, you don't have to suffer this earthly stuff. But, you know, I like you know, dead is easier, but uh resurrection is more fun. Uh it's more powerful. It changes the world. You know, it's crazy. You know, but it's and it's not a bus.

SPEAKER_04 29:13

Right. Right? Right. I mean, you know, to your question last week, I think it was actually, you know, where's God? I mean, if God can do this, right, um, and it's not something that I've worked up on my own. Um and um, you know, I'm not sure I know the physics of immortality. I don't know what that looks like. I don't, but I uh I trust that on the third day he was raised from the dead and he showed himself to his followers, and that changed them and fundamentally changed me.

SPEAKER_05 29:51

Um so yeah, I I just think it's more enjoyable to believe in intern eternal things, right? And to live the eternal things. And and for those people out there that want to kill eternal things, good luck. Right.

SPEAKER_03 30:11

They'll keep getting up from the dead, right? Right, good luck. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 30:15

How disappointing. Right?

SPEAKER_03 30:17

You talking about vampires? Yeah. I've been reading a lot of um stuff on eschatology, and there's been a movement since like the 70s and 80s to kind of foreground eschatology.

SPEAKER_00 30:36

Can you say what eschatology is?

SPEAKER_03 30:38

Yeah, so eschatology is like last things, but it's just dealing with kind of what happens at the end. Um but one of the things these theologians are working with um is that we put the work that happens at the end as something off in the distance and we don't think about it. But that work is what's pushing us into the future. This idea that the resurrection is a foreshadow of of Christ bringing all things to restoration. And so we get to participate in that. And um part of the work of being a Christian is is our hope is a hope in something that we have already seen signs of happening. And so eschatology isn't just something that's happening at the end of time, but something is happening in every moment and every place. And the work of the church is to witness to that and participate in it. And I think the resurrection is like the meat of that.

SPEAKER_05 31:37

Right. That's why I like John's gospel, because there's no it's not a linear gospel, it's a regular gospel.

SPEAKER_03 31:43

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's confusing in that way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 31:51

All right.

SPEAKER_00 31:52

Can I read my favorite uh date to this story? We can wrap up with this if you want. I love this. This is from the Book of Belonging, which is a somewhat of a children's story. But this is after Jesus is dead. Uh so it says this, why, why, why? Wonder the people who Jesus had healed and taught and embraced and celebrated with. He was God in a human body. He performed miracles. He said his kingdom would never end. He was supposed to bring heaven to earth. What happened? Why didn't he save himself? asked Jesus' friends. What have I done? asked the Roman soldier. That's the end of that, said the religious leaders. Here's my favorite part. He says, Because although death was a mystery, most people would agree that it was the end. And their next page says, but Jesus was not like most people. Isn't that so good? That's great.

SPEAKER_05 32:52

Yeah. That's great. Uh Ashley brought books and Guy brought peeps. So there we go.

SPEAKER_02 33:00

We have a table full of different peeps from Guy Griffith. Rice Krispies, s'mores, cotton candy, all these different flavored peeps. Pop tarts. Get your peeps. Can anything good come out of Bethlehem?

SPEAKER_04 33:13

Now that now that we don't make steel anymore, at least we make peeps in Bethlehem.

SPEAKER_02 33:20

Guy Griffith, would you pray us out of here?

SPEAKER_04 33:22

Wouldn't holy and gracious God. We stand at the door at this immense week, not yet fully aware of all that will happen. Help us to walk through each of the days with growing dread and then silence in grief and then awe at Easter. It's not this a moment. The commandment on Thursday as we are told again to love one another. The silence as we strip the sanctuary. And then Friday as we can meditate as the choir leads us through Good Friday music. And then we hear the thump of the cross on the floor. And then the quiet of Saturday. We can't ever get behind Easter as twenty first century Christians, but help us to imagine what Peter felt like in that time. And then Easter as we come to hear again the text that Donovan read this morning to be able to sing the Alleluia's and the Hosanna's and Hallelujah. Grant to us uh a deep sense of awe and deeper sense of gratitude that you are not done with us or done with our world. Help us to be your Easter people. For it's in Christ we pray. Amen.