Westminster Talking the Text Podcast for Sunday, April 12, 2026 | John 20:19-31 | with Guy D. Griffith, Stephanie Boaz, Ashley Higgins, & Will Wellman

Westminster Talking the Text Podcast for Sunday, April 12, 2026 | John 20:19-31 | with Guy D. Griffith, Stephanie Boaz, Ashley Higgins, & Will Wellman

John 20:19-31

19When it was evening on that day, the first day of the week, and the doors of the house where the disciples had met were locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you." 20After he said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples rejoiced when they saw the Lord. 21Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you." 22When he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained." 24But Thomas (who was called the Twin), one of the twelve, was not with them when Jesus came. 25So the other disciples told him, "We have seen the Lord." But he said to them, "Unless I see the mark of the nails in his hands, and put my finger in the mark of the nails and my hand in his side, I will not believe." 26A week later his disciples were again in the house, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were shut, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you." 27Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here and see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it in my side. Do not doubt but believe." 28Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!" 29Jesus said to him, "Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have come to believe." 30Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book. 31But these are written so that you may come to believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that through believing you may have life in his name.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Well, good morning and welcome to another Talking the Text. This is uh the first um week in Eastertide, and Donovan is away in Lower Mississippi doing a wedding this coming weekend. Um, and we have a guest preacher with us who will be filling the pulpit, the Reverend Dr. Margaret Grunkibon, who's a retired vice admiral of the Navy. She used to be in charge of all the Marine Corps and naval chaplains and is the first woman chaplain of the U.S. House of Representatives.

SPEAKER_04 0:43

Awesome.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

And as impressive as all of that is, more impressively, she is a class of 1985 of Princeton Theological Seminary. We entered seminary together, and she is a dear friend, is on the Outreach Foundation board. The uh we will welcome uh board members of the Outreach Foundation who are in as Westminster is hosting the board meeting on next Monday and Tuesday. Uh so at work to have uh Margaret and some other folks. We have some special Sunday school uh as well with the Outreach Foundation uh this weekend. But Will starts his Sunday school, uh, and we're excited about that as well. Oh, yeah. Um I'm Guy. Will.

SPEAKER_05 1:32

Ashley, Stephanie.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

We're also excited this week because Sarah Birdneff joins the staff and uh she has just come to the office and began moving in. So we're not having her on the podcast, but she'll be back next week. We also welcome Phil Osborne to the staff, and uh it's uh it's an exciting time around here. Our uh text, uh, we'll just have two texts this Sunday because I think we have five or six baptisms uh as well. And uh we'll look at Psalm 16, we'll uh sing. Uh but our text is John 20, uh verse 19 through 31. Hear the word of God. Our ears are open. When it was evening on that day, the first day of the week, and the doors of the house where the disciples had met were locked, for fear of the Jews. Jesus came and stood among them and said, Peace be with you. After he said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples rejoiced when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you. When he had said this, he breathed on them and he said to them, Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them. If you retain the sins of any, they are retained. But Thomas, who is called the twin, one of the twelve, was not with them when Jesus came. So the other disciples told him, We have seen the Lord. But Thomas said to them, Unless they see the mark of the nails in his hands, and put my finger in the mark of the nails and my hand in the side, I will not believe. A week later, his disciples were again in the house, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were shut, Jesus came and stood among them and said, Peace be with you. And he said to Thomas, Put your finger here and see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it at my side. Do not doubt, but believe. Thomas answered him, My Lord and my God. But Jesus said to him, Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have come to believe. Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book, but these are written, so that you may come to believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that through believing you may have life in his name. The word of the Lord.

SPEAKER_01 4:16

Thanks be to God.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

Gracious God, thanks for this uh amazing text that leads us in for deeper into Easter tide. We thank you for the gift of Easter worship, the sound of the brass, and the hallelujah. Help us take that into this week and the weeks ahead. That we might be your peace Easter people in Christ I pray. Amen. All right, so I think uh the sermon title is um what did Margaret tell me it was? Uh talk amongst yourself while I find that. Uh I think it is. Um Blessed are the doubters. Blessed are the doubters. I think Thomas gets a bad rap.

SPEAKER_02 5:20

Agreed.

SPEAKER_00 5:21

Um we don't know why Thomas wasn't with the group. And I remember one year when I had this text, I thought to myself, well, maybe he's the courageous one.

SPEAKER_03 5:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:32

Maybe everybody else was so afraid that he was the one to go out, get milk and bread, and uh get a little intelligence and miss Jesus showing up. Um so I don't, I don't, uh I don't find uh, you know I don't lean so heavily on his doubting.

SPEAKER_03 5:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:57

I don't think I would have believed those rascals if uh I hadn't been there either.

SPEAKER_05 6:02

Well, and in some ways he's asking for the same thing that they've already experienced. Mary saw the Lord, and the disciples say they have seen the Lord, and he wants to see the Lord as well.

SPEAKER_02 6:17

Totally.

SPEAKER_05 6:18

And so in some ways he's really asking for a similar experience to the one that they've had. Right. And I think when we take, like when we when we look at him a little differently, it gives us a chance um for when Jesus says, Blessed are those who believe without seeing. You know, we sort of get a chance to think about that more as us. Those of us who aren't going to have that visual encounter with the risen Lord because he's ascended. Exactly. You know? Right.

SPEAKER_00 6:58

Yeah, I think for all of Donovan wanting uh the uh beloved disciple be us, I I think that's us.

SPEAKER_05 7:06

Uh we can be any of them, any day of the week.

SPEAKER_00 7:09

So I love that. What do you all make about um I've always thought this so interesting. Um when it was evening on that day, the first day of the week, and the doors of the house where the disciples had met were locked. Jesus came and stood among. Well, how did Jesus get in there? Jesus weighs Who knows?

SPEAKER_01 7:38

That's a that's a physics beyond our capacity.

SPEAKER_00 7:41

But isn't it such a wonderful thing? Remember the old Victorian painting of behold, I stand at the door and knock. And if you look at that painting closely, there's not a um uh okay. A door yeah, a handle, yeah. And the old line is, well, you know, you just you've gotta open the door for Jesus, right? And here it doesn't matter if the door is locked or not, Jesus is gonna come in whether you want to or not. And I think that's great good news.

SPEAKER_02 8:13

And then he comes back.

unknown 8:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:15

Which I read reading that, I thought, I want to know. Because a week later, right, they were in the house, and and though the doors were shut, Jesus came and stood among them. My imagination went to like, what's he doing in between then? Where is he? What's he what's going on? I I'm so curious. What's the thing?

SPEAKER_00 8:33

He's got other other uh sheep of in other folds he's going to visit.

SPEAKER_02 8:38

To go see. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:39

I mean, it's all those things that got left in the cutting floor for John's gossip that they could have added in, but didn't.

SPEAKER_02 8:46

I just imagine him with his mom spending some good time with her. That's where my head went. Maybe just a season of life.

SPEAKER_00 8:53

But I think that might just be a season of life.

SPEAKER_04 8:57

All the time. We don't know.

SPEAKER_00 8:59

You can imagine all kinds of things. Exactly. All the commentaries I've read never mentioned that. So Ashley's breaking new ground. I like that.

SPEAKER_02 9:06

Well, you got it. That that mama, she went through a lot. She did.

SPEAKER_00 9:12

Well, you've got copious notes.

SPEAKER_01 9:16

Yes, I do.

SPEAKER_00 9:17

Where are we going with those, brother?

SPEAKER_01 9:19

Well, I I don't know. I keep I you know, I've I've obviously this is a a pretty familiar passage, especially after Easter. And the one thing that's always hung me up is verses 22 through 23. The act of Christ breathing the Holy Spirit on them and then saying, if you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them. If you retain the sins of any, they are retained. And it's it's such a strange phrasing and way to think about sin and our relationship to each other. Um yeah, I I don't I don't have anything like specific to say besides I think it really is pushing us uh to consider what our role is in the church and how we relate to each other. And the language here is very physical. Um the Greek for forgive is like to dismiss or set free, and to retain is literally like to physically hold. And and sin, uh Martia is just to miss the mark. And so I just keep thinking about like it's not saying we have the authority to say who's a sinner or not. It's we have the responsibility to say um who are we bringing to God and who are we pushing away. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_00 10:41

And also how you're forgive. I mean, this uh points to me. I I had a mentor, kind of Tom Toole, um who was an associate at my home church, and I worked with him my senior year at uh at seminary, and he used to talk about that we have a beach ball ministry. What the heck is that? Uh if you've ever been in a pool and have taken a beach ball and try to hold it under the water, pretty soon all your energy is focused on that beach ball.

SPEAKER_01 11:16

Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:17

And his suggestion that in the the fulsome call of God uh that we are to be ministers one to another, and we can say to each other, let that damn beach ball go. You know, and sin can be that way. You know, we're trying to suppress it and let it go, let it get out. And it's sort of the you know, ministry of all believers that the the priest doesn't have to say that to you, that all of us have that ability to say to one another, let that thing go. And uh I I cannot not hear an echo of Tom's sermon and that beach ball ministry when I read this uh because you know, this essentially is Pentecost for John.

SPEAKER_01 12:02

Right.

SPEAKER_00 12:02

This is the breathing of the Holy Spirit upon the the sent people, right? And I'm sending you out to do this ministry and you know, realize the uh incredible um responsibility you have. I mean, if you don't let help those people let it go, they're carrying that. It's it's they're still retaining it.

SPEAKER_05 12:22

Yeah. And I think it's also important to point out that there's a difference in holding on to that sin and focusing on it and not being willing to forgive and being so wounded by the hurt that you've received and just not being ready to forgive. Those are two really different things. So, you know, those who have been hurt through the sin of someone else, it may take some time.

SPEAKER_03 12:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:51

But I think this is a lot about, you know, we hold on to this person did wrong to me, and I don't want to forgive them. And that does damage to our own hearts and gets in the way of us being able to share in ministry.

SPEAKER_00 13:05

Remind me, are you the pastoral care minister? I might be.

SPEAKER_05 13:08

I think I am. I am.

SPEAKER_00 13:10

That was that was good insight. I remember preaching this text one time, and um I called the sermon um bit players in key roles. Something like that. And I think the acts text uh that's paired with this is uh Barnabas, who is a giant figure in the early church that often gets overlooked. And I'm always surprised at how many people, when I ask them, you know, who in the Bible do you identify with? How many people identify with Thomas and the doubting one?

unknown 13:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:48

And uh how grateful I am that he shows up in John's gospel. And I think as I was saying last week, remember about the concentric circles that the beloved disciple just saw the empty tomb. He was good. Peter had to fool with the grave clothes, Mary needed to hear her name spoken. The disciples encounter him in the upper room, but you know, Thomas needs a special audience, and it's it's sort of, I'm gonna meet you where you are. You need to go at it, look at my hand, fiddle with my side. You know, if that's what you need, good. And um and then we get included at the end, you know, and you who don't haven't seen but yet believe, yeah, uh, that's that outer ring, and we're invited not to stay in the outer ring but move to the center, just like everyone else. I think it's a beautiful, beautiful text.

SPEAKER_05 14:38

I think also just a note toward Thomas courage, too, is later in um, no, earlier in John 14, um, when Jesus says, I go, you know, to prepare a place for you and you know where I'm going. And Thomas is the one who says, uh looking around, I'm like, I don't really think we know Jesus.

SPEAKER_04 14:59

He's kind of the spokesman for the whole cruise kid. Jesus is like, oh, but you do. It's me. I'm the way. But good job, Thomas, for calling the question.

SPEAKER_02 15:10

I I think it's funny how not funny, or Jesus just puts them to work so quickly in this. It's been a week, just a week, and they're terrified. I think we overlook that too. Like, who's to say this isn't gonna be them next? You know, right away. All right. The I just the humanity in this passage, I find really uh I'm grateful for that. That there's just a lot of naming of real humanness all throughout this passage. But um man, Jesus puts them to work so fast. Yeah, and uh but you know, I mean, Jesus has just done the thing, right? And God called Jesus to this awful thing, and Jesus drank the cup, and you know, Jesus ready to go. All right, come on, let's do it. I've done it. Let's go. And uh like, well, there's there's some trauma. There's some trauma in that room. Uh but like let's do it. It it does, it it reminds me a little bit, and I don't think this is the purpose, but it does remind me a little bit of Jesus in the wilderness, you know, at the very beginning of his ministry, and he comes out and goes right to work, you know, and so it's almost like the the these disciples have been in their wilderness. They just got one week, just seven days, you know, not 40. Um, but here comes Jesus calling them out of that.

SPEAKER_05 16:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:44

Like get after it. Yeah. Like, wow, I I might have needed another minute to catch my breath.

SPEAKER_00 16:51

Yeah, I think that's really helpful. And and you know, for us who occasionally get discouraged, yeah, um to remember that the kingdom calls us to continue.

unknown 17:04

Right.

SPEAKER_00 17:04

Um do not grow weary and well doing, for in due season you will reap if you do not lose heart. Um and even at the end of uh 1 Corinthians 15, you know, remember that your labor in the Lord is not in vain. And I I think, you know, what a gift Easter is uh to remind us uh of the ultimate victory. Um that even when we're in the midst of defeat and discouragement, Jesus doesn't leave us there. Yeah. But calls us out, breathes on us, and tells us you've got kingdom work to do.

SPEAKER_03 17:43

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:44

Yeah. There's like a dual nature of the spirit, it's comforting them, but it's also sending them out. It reminds me a lot of um Elijah when Jezebel's after him, and he's like literally giving up. Yeah. And then he hears the the you know, the fireworks explosion, all that, and then the still small voice. And um the first thing God says is, you know, get out of here.

SPEAKER_03 18:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:11

They that's when he goes after Elijah, right? Right. And so it's the same thing. It's like, here's your comfort, but also like a little pat on the butt, get to work.

SPEAKER_00 18:20

Yeah, totally. Eat something, you know, and you think you're alone. I got 700 people that, you know, hadn't bowed the knee to ball. Yeah. Get on your way. Yeah. Uh I think that's terrific. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 18:35

I think also maybe it says something too about those moments when we do have a strong clarity, um, that is a gift from from God through the spirit, that those are moments we can just sit back and enjoy and say for ourselves, or they are moments that can cause us to think about, wow, I have this understanding, how is God calling me to be engaged now? And and that could look a lot of different ways, but it's a moment of clarity that a person is receiving in in your prayer life, turning that back to God and saying, What do you want me, how do you want me to respond to this is very important. It's gonna be as unique as every individual.

SPEAKER_01 19:24

And just that idea of faith is like something that's lived out, right? It's not it's not simply like an identity, it's a way of life. Um and the church is constantly over and over again called to this. Yeah. When you're uh guy referring to this as like the Johannine Pentecost, well, this is the same thing that happens at Pentecost. They're scared.

SPEAKER_05 19:46

Yeah. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 19:47

And they are um given this gift, but they're also given this task. Um and I think that's a a good reminder for us um, you know, post-Easter that this isn't something to just celebrate. It's something to live into.

SPEAKER_05 20:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 20:05

Doesn't the lectionary also pair um a little bit later in Acts where we get Peter's sermon? I think that's what the lectionary pairs with this. So it like skips over the the acts coming of the Spirit because the Spirit has been breathed out by Jesus and goes right into Peter preaching and people people joining the church by thousands and thousands.

SPEAKER_00 20:29

Well, as I said, I'm I'm I'm excited for baptisms uh this week.

SPEAKER_05 20:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

Um I I do like the historic tradition of catechesis taking place during Lent and baptism on Easter. Um I I almost wish we would would um uh have that practice. Uh though somebody at the nine o'clock uh service, nine fifteen service, asked me why didn't we do communion on Easter all three services, like we do on Christmas Eve. And uh Christmas Eve we have a little bit more time to clear the parking lot and bring the next group back.

SPEAKER_03 21:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 21:14

Uh I think that's the the the uh the the simple answer. I mean turning it around is is tough. Uh but I do like celebrating um baptism on Easter um as much as I enjoy um participating at communion at 7 o'clock at the 7:30 in the the morning service. Uh there's something about that. And I don't know, when you all were at Princeton Seminary, the did they do the Paschal Vigil still?

SPEAKER_03 21:44

Hmm.

SPEAKER_00 21:45

When I was there, we would on um Holy Saturday night we do a vigil, and we would start in the chapel, and the chapel was still decked out in Lenten colors. And then we would walk around campus and literally dramatize the entire saving history of scripture.

SPEAKER_01 22:08

One year a very Eastern Orthodox practice.

SPEAKER_00 22:13

One year there is a picture of me in one of the big trees on campus dressed in a white alb with a burning um torch. What? Being a prophet. What? And uh, you know, then you would work and you'd go to campus uh center and you'd start the New Testament and you'd come back to uh Miller Chapel, and on the steps before you went in, some somebody from the community was baptized, and then they would take uh evergreen branches dipped in water and spray us as we walked up Remember Your Baptism. And then the the chapel was transformed to Easter, and we would have Easter worship like at midnight, then have an agape uh meal, then go to bed for like five hours and go to our churches on Easter morning.

SPEAKER_02 23:07

Holy moly.

SPEAKER_00 23:08

Uh, but it was it was something, and that was one of the first times the words remember your baptism and be glad really connected with me in that experience. I think we did it all three years when I was a student. Um that's cool. I I sometimes tease John about us doing it here, and he rolls his eyes and said, you know, no way we're gonna do that. But there's something about doing the drama of the entire scripture.

SPEAKER_02 23:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:34

The saving history of God that culminates on Easter morning that is, I think, really wonderful.

SPEAKER_01 23:41

Also just that anticipation and joy of coming to Easter morning, of coming through just like the most incredible darkness and um distance from God. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:54

Although I I loved on Sunday Donovan asking the question, when is Easter? Because it's easy for us to anticipate the joy, but I I just hadn't ever thought. Like, when did it when did they feel that? When did it when did it feel like Easter? Um for all the different, and we're talking about all the different characters in the story. Uh like, oh man, uh they might not have felt they at least they at least weren't able to anticipate. Right. Which is such a part of the gift to know no matter what, no matter the darkness, we we get to anticipate what we know is coming. And um, man, for all of these folks, they didn't get to anticipate.

SPEAKER_00 24:47

Yeah, we can never get behind Easter. Right. Right. Right. You know, we know the rest of the story. So um, yeah. Anything else? Will you got lots written on your little paper there, brother?

unknown 25:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:04

Um I I don't know. I mean, like maybe we could just come back to Thomas since he's such a uh relatable person. And I I I I I I like I don't want to drive him away and and just like latch on to that, like, blessed are those who have not seen and yet come to believe. Because the point of the gospel is to let us see. This this sharing of memories. And so I don't think we should just dismiss it outright and have this idea that we should have blind faith.

SPEAKER_03 25:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:36

Because I think one of the beautiful things about Thomas is this desire to encounter God. There's uh an old Rolling Stone song. Um, I don't want to talk about Jesus, I just want to see his face.

SPEAKER_05 25:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:52

Uh and I think that's a beautiful sentiment. I don't think we should just be walking around like drones saying, Oh, I believe because XYZ. I think there should be a deep, deep desire for us to encounter God.

SPEAKER_02 26:04

Well that's the incarnation, right? Like if it if the encounter didn't matter, why why the need for incarnation?

SPEAKER_01 26:12

Just because it's like we won't uh see in the way that Thomas will see doesn't mean that we shouldn't seek after that. Because, you know, that's the whole thing of the spirit. It's all around us. And we're we're there's um an Irish uh philosopher who talks about micro esquatons, this idea that God is constantly bursting into our our reality in this way that kind of like overwhelms the ordinary. Um and I I think we we see encounters of of the spirit in Christ all the time. Um and and like I think that's a gift and that's something we should seek after.

SPEAKER_05 26:50

Yeah. Um I heard one preacher um saying that, especially on Easter, but other times too, he's always thinking about who's that one person out there that doesn't believe any of this and maybe has even been engaged in faith practice, but still really doesn't believe any of this. And how can I reach that person? Um, and you know, really recognizing that there are some folks who know the whole story and still that sense of how real it is is fleeting for them. And so really hoping and praying that God is going to use your words to somehow touch them and to help them see anew. Um, but I mean, that's that's such a reality. I think this is a big story, and it's not it's not something easy to just believe. I mean, a lot of people need to touch the wounds. A lot of people need to see it in a way that it really matters physically somehow.

SPEAKER_01 28:00

Um Yeah, and I I I like what you're saying because I think part of our work as a church, and I think this ties into what I was talking about earlier with like the the sin and forgiveness. It's not about like, you know, passing off someone's moral failures, it's about drawing them into a living relationship with God. And so part of our work as the church is to be that encounter for them. And and that that that's like, yes, we have our personal faith, but like our faith is so tied into everyone else and the work uh I think about all the time, um, St. Augustine's mom praying for him over and over and over again. And just like the beauty of that prayer, um, not for anything other than that he could experience God. And and I think like um maybe that's what this passage is about, is like praying, bringing that presence to other people.

SPEAKER_00 28:56

And I I do like Thomas as well because I've spent 20 years here uh encouraging folks not to park the brain, you know, that uh ours is faith-seeking understanding. And that uh our tradition, you know, invites us not to uh um have a shallow faith, but uh an informed faith, uh the life of the mind uh in you know, appreciation of God. And um and in some ways Thomas stands for that person, um and deeply grateful that John includes him as a particular person. I mean, you know, usually the junior league of the disciples get short shrift, right? I mean, we don't we don't have personalities from uh Bartholomew and you know I've read those I've read those, you know, 12 the Master's Men and all of those books that try to flesh out who the rest of the disciples are. I mean you get a a sense of uh Peter and James and John, but you know, the the second tier. It's sort of like a batting order, you know. You got the leadoff guy and you know, then the guy who's hitting cleanup, but uh the fellow who's batting in ninth place is uh not not the one who's going on to the big ones, you know. So anyway. Well, anything else for the good of the whole?

SPEAKER_02 30:23

I have a poem to read. Great, great to close this out. It's not, it's not too, it's not too much. But it just it reminded me of this poem, just thinking about like ultimately like God's doing the work in us. And uh it takes a long time. So this is called Um Trust in the Slow Work of God. It's by Pierre Des Chardines. Adam DeVries uh introduced me to this years ago and uh really resonated with me when I was pregnant. Uh that was a different season of life, but it reminded me of this. So it's called Trust in the Slow Work of God. Above all, trust in the slow work of God. We are quite naturally impatient in everything to reach the end without delay. We should like to skip the intermediate stages. We are impatient of being on the way to something, something unknown, something new. And yet it is the law of all progress that it is made by passing through some stages of instability, and that it may take a very long time. And so I think it is with you. Your ideas mature gradually, let them grow, let them shape themselves without undue haste. Don't try to force them on as though you could be today what time, that is to say, grace and circumstances acting on your own goodwill will make of you tomorrow. Only God could say what this new spirit gradually forming within you will be. Give our Lord the benefit of believing that his hand is leading you, and accept the anxiety of feeling yourself in suspense and incomplete. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 32:24

You want to close us in prayer?

SPEAKER_02 32:26

Me? Yep, sure. I thank you for living out the anticipation that we know even in the darkness, that you are risen. Would we be an Easter people to watch for the ways that you are at work in the world to point to them and to join in? Would we be willing to share the good news that we witness? And would we be a people who don't become anxious, but trust in the slow work that you are about, trusting that you are here, that your promises are true, that the resurrection is as true today as it was on that first Easter morning. Would you give us eyes to see? And would we share it with a world that is really hungry for it? In your son's name we pray. Amen. Amen.