Westminster Talking the Text Podcast for Sunday, May 17, 2026 | John 17:1-11 | with Donovan Drake, Guy D. Griffith, and Sarah Bird Kneff

Westminster Talking the Text Podcast for Sunday, May 17, 2026 | John 17:1-11 | with Donovan Drake, Guy D. Griffith, and Sarah Bird Kneff

Discover more about the welcoming community at Westminster Presbyterian Church! Click HERE to visit our website and learn about our worship, missions, programs, and the wonderful people who make our church a vibrant place to grow in faith.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Welcome to another Talking the Text. I'm Donovan. I'm Guy. I'm Sarah. It's just the three of us.

SPEAKER_02 0:11

Just the three of us. There we go.

SPEAKER_01 0:15

And uh our text is lectionary, John 17, 1 through 11. And uh we've got an interesting Sunday because Sarah is being installed, and that should be fun at 11 o'clock.

SPEAKER_02 0:32

And uh the adjective you chose was interest interesting.

SPEAKER_01 0:35

It should be wonderful.

SPEAKER_02 0:36

Yeah, amazing. Should be amazing. Compelling.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

Yes. Great. So, you know, trying to think of this sermon in or in this text in light of your installation.

SPEAKER_02 0:46

Yeah, that'd be nice.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

That would be interesting.

SPEAKER_02 0:48

Yeah, tell me how to do my ministry.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

Yeah, we'll see. We'll see how we do this. All right. From John 17, let's pray. Well, holy God, we give you thanks and praise. You have made a wonderful day this Tuesday, um, and we are grateful for it. We pray that your spirit be with us as we look into your word. Um, may it play on our hearts, in our minds, in our conversations, and in all we do, so that we might serve you more fully. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.

SPEAKER_04 1:23

Amen.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

All right. John 17, 1 through 11. Hear the word of God. Are you saying after Jesus had spoken these words, he looked up to heaven and said, Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, so that the Son may glorify you, since you have given him authority over all people, to give eternal life to those to all whom you have given. And this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God in Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. I glorified you on earth by finishing the work that you gave me to do. So now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory that I had in your presence before the world existed. I have made your no name known to those whom you gave me from the world. They were yours, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word. Now they know that everything you have given me is from you. For the words that you gave me I have given to them, and they have received them, and know in truth that I came from you, and they have believed that you sent me. I am asking on their behalf, I am not asking on the behalf of the world, but on behalf of those whom you gave me, because they are yours. All mine are yours, and yours are mine, and I have been glorified in them, and now I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them in your name that you have given me, so that they may be one as we are one. The word of the Lord.

SPEAKER_02 2:58

Thanks be to God.

SPEAKER_01 3:01

All right, well, I always find this text interesting because we get to hear the prayer of Jesus, get in the mind of Jesus. And um I like the uh sense that it feels as though he's passing the baton on to the church, right? From God to Jesus to Jesus to the disciples who are there, to us, and then to us later, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:36

So you think the disciples are sitting, they're sitting around the table. This is at the end of the farewell discourse, and they're hearing Jesus speak these words. Like it's like public prayer. You know, when you pray publicly, it's it's for you, it's for God, but it's also for the people around you, right? So the the disciples are overhearing what Jesus is saying.

SPEAKER_00 3:59

I think it's more than that. I think it's not that they're overhearing, he's praying for them.

SPEAKER_03 4:06

For them.

SPEAKER_00 4:07

And the church is overhearing. Right.

SPEAKER_03 4:09

The church is overhearing.

SPEAKER_00 4:10

We're part of this prayer.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

Right. And so what does it mean to be part of the prayer of Jesus?

SPEAKER_00 4:22

And you can't swing a dead cat and not hear doksa in this text. Right. So what do we do with glory and be glorified and all of that? Uh what do we do with the dead cat? Bury it. You always bury the dead cat, Don.

SPEAKER_03 4:40

That's a very disturbing image.

SPEAKER_01 4:42

It is a very disturbing image. And for you cat fans out there, I did not say it. Sorry. Okay. I love cats.

SPEAKER_03 4:50

Yeah, I mean, glorify comes up multiple times. That's glorifying you. You've glorified your son. I glorified you on earth.

SPEAKER_00 5:00

And you know, it goes back to be lifted up uh as well, you know, right? What's happening here? This is basically the last thing he does before he heads out and um goes to the garden, and the garden is where he's betrayed. And um, so all of that. This is really the culmination of the first part of the gospel.

SPEAKER_01 5:22

And it's not like he's making us be one or making us be a part of he's telling us we are a part of that. I mean in that way it's almost feels like a blessing in some in a sense to me. That it's it's something that we're we've we've received. And you know, the the the closing line is my favorite, that you know, that uh that they may have they may be one as we are one kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

Um sometime relatively early in my time here, I decided that uh we would do a Sunday school class on the Trinity. And one of our strong members who will go nameless for this thought, why in the world would you want to do anything on the Trinity? Nobody cares about the Trinity. And uh the denomination had produced a paper on the Trinity called God's Love Overflowing, and the image that was used, that Calvin used, was of a fountain with water just over overflowing, and this notion that the relationship of the Father, Son, and Spirit um is so full that their love overflows to creation. Uh I mean they could have just been by themselves, but went ahead and and and I've always thought about that, especially with our our fountain when it works out of the columbarium, that water that's overflowing and gets replenished. And um I think that's a profound image of the Trinity that we get invited into that abundance of love. Um and I hear echoes of that in this as we are one, you are one, right? Right.

SPEAKER_01 7:25

And you know, then it becomes a recipe for the congregation, right? That that the congregation must exhibit. Just as I have loved you, you also must love one another. So the prayer comes true in a congregation that must hear the prayer and then live the prayer. Um how difficult is that?

SPEAKER_03 7:52

Well, and especially the way that, you know, the self-sacrificial love of Jesus, you know, and and the ways that I think we can idealize it, you know, like, oh, we're all a happy family, we're all together, and yet being in community, being one can get really with human beings, can get really messy. Um, and how did Jesus embody that? He laid down his life, you know, he he sacrificed, he he gave up himself. Um I think that's the the all mine are the verse 10, all mine are yours and yours are mine, just this idea that we don't belong. I mean, this is the countercultural idea, right? We don't belong to ourselves. Um, as much as our society would like to say, we are self-sufficient, we are independent, we are individuals. Um, the only person I have it to answer to is me. We don't belong to ourselves. And and even in like a uh a tribal culture, you know, you belong to the to the to the body, to the group, to the tribe, to the family, but we belong to to God. And that's like a whole nother way of living. That's a whole nother way of approaching um how you spend your money, how you spend your time, what you do, how you treat others. Like that, I that's just the word that kept coming up as I was reading this is belonging, because we all are so, we all so want to belong, right? Like that's one of our core desires. And yet our culture's like, you belong to yourself. And that's all that's all you need. That's all um you don't have to answer to anyone. But this for this gives us some freedom that we belong to God and that we are one.

SPEAKER_01 9:40

I happen to uh attend uh uh what do you call it? Uh uh like an AA, but it was it was broader than an AA for for somebody who wanted to share their faith story. Um and and people from outside were invited into this place. And um I was kind of overwhelmed by the the sense of how scripture and love uh was shared, that people with deep needs and and the the addictions were multiple. Um you know, we're celebrated for either coming forward than celebrated uh for, you know, time uh that they've that they've kept um sober, you know. Um I was just I was really impressed by the enthusiasm and the love that was shared in that community um for people that were of all walks of life. Um and I thought, wow, you know, you know, here is the church that is based on a need, you know, uh that you need to be one uh in supportive of one another, um, and hearing each other's stories and and sharing and all that. So it was you know, where we tend to be buttoned up and you know, not very sharing of our challenges. You know, this was kind of okay. The confession of this uh of our sins and the assurance of pardon was really the assurance of the community that we're in this together.

SPEAKER_03 11:39

But um what is it the um I don't know guy you probably know who said this? The hospital church is a hospital for sinners, not a what is it? Um not a museum of the saints or something like that. You know, like this idea that the church is supposed like that's a place where we can express our needs. Um and we should.

SPEAKER_00 12:05

I guess I'm uh the opinion it's both.

SPEAKER_03 12:08

You think it's a muse as a museum of saints?

SPEAKER_00 12:11

I I think uh, you know, I I think there are people in the church for whom sanctification has been a lifelong journey and uh and they've not necessarily had some of the challenges that people who've had brokenness, and I think that there's place for both. I think, you know, another way to put that maybe is that the older brother and the prodigal uh both find home. Yeah. And um uh I I uh uh I want to make sure that you know, even that broken family gets reconciled in God's kingdom. Uh too often in the straight lace Presbyterian, as Donovan's saying, that you know, there hasn't been that place for people who have had deep brokenness to be able to share that and be welcomed home. On the other hand, um I think sometimes the first child who hasn't had those issues um uh feels that they have to make up something because their life has not been that kind of Pauline turn experience. And and I think that there's you know, God works with each of us differently. And um uh I I I I crave for a church that's big enough that each narrative is valued.

unknown 13:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:49

And um this past Sunday, doing some presentation in Sunday school and having a little bit of my own faith story. I've for a long time I've had this inferiority complex. Like I never joined a motorcycle gang or were strung out on drugs or did anything that was excited, you know. My rebellion was I went to young life. I went to a pair, I went to a para-church ministry instead of youth group. It was a big deal. Um, but no, I mean, and I think that that's like that you see the um when I was when I was preparing that present, I was like, oh, this is actually I'm kind of an older brother, right? You know, and and God has been so faithful in in that, that I don't have to have, like you said, some kind of Pauline um Damascus Road experience. Um it's been these incremental revelations along the way.

SPEAKER_01 14:40

Um Yeah, and and you know what's fascinating about being one in the church, you know, is that the the facets of the church, the facets of what everybody brings to the church and uh how some of those facets can seem threatening at times, or we question it, or you know, you know, how is this one also in the kingdom kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 15:08

Um I I you know occasionally I will stand outside the sanctuary and I'll look over the names of those who've gone on before and are in the Columbarium. And you just think of the unique saints that are, you know, individuals. I think God works with us as individuals, not as groups. And um, you know, a person like Paul Lyle, you know, you know, you're smiling as I say his name. You just think of these individuals who for a season gave their particular charismata in the life of this congregation, and that we're better to have that DNA um as part of our corporate body. Um so many different names that I could uh could mention.

SPEAKER_01 16:01

Uh Paul Paul Paul was big in uh stature and in uh colorful in Tennessee. I mean, I think his first words were to me, you know, preacher, if you see me s sleeping during your sermon, it's only because I trust you. I'm like, okay.

SPEAKER_03 16:22

Thank you. That just covers all of your business.

SPEAKER_01 16:25

It cover covers everything, I think, right?

SPEAKER_03 16:27

I mean I think that's that's been the privilege of of being in ministry and doing, I mean, my favorite part of ministry is doing funerals for multiple reasons. You know, you have a you have people who are there who are just ready to receive the gospel. You're not just a figurehead like you can be sometimes in weddings or baptisms, but you're you're the proclaimer of the good news. And I often will say the same good, you know, it's it's the same good news. And yet when you when you meet with the family, when you get to know that saint's story, you can you can trace the goodness and the faithfulness of God. And it's even in the most, you know, difficult funerals I've done where there's been so much division and so much acrimony, and there's still something there. And so I think you're right, guy. I think that's that's like one of the gifts. Is the columbarium right outside of your off my your old office, my new office?

SPEAKER_00 17:18

Uh the old columbarium is right outside, is between your you know, you've got those four big windows that look over to the sanctuary. And that space between your office and the sanctuary is where the old columbarium is, the original one.

SPEAKER_02 17:33

Where's the new one?

SPEAKER_00 17:34

The new one is on the far side, the Wilson side of the chapel. That's where I'll be living in after I die.

SPEAKER_03 17:42

Um have you reserved your spot? Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:45

I go out there, I hang hang out there, pat on it a little bit. You know, it's uh it's a strange thing. Amy has had three jobs basically at Murphy Road in West End. The first one when she was right out of graduate school in the mid-80s, and then after we moved back here, she had two. Uh and to to think that uh she and I will hang out here uh into eternity is kind of I thought I thought you were gonna hang out and she'd be still working.

SPEAKER_03 18:21

Well, I think I think that's so one of the things that really struck me, that verse, verse three, the um very clear, almost, I mean, the definition we get for what eternal life is. So when we're talking about that, when we talk about eternal life, you know, for so many, it's okay, I want eternal life. Like I want the promise of life with Jesus in the sweet by and by. And yet the way that Jesus is defining it is this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.

SPEAKER_01 18:53

Oh, I wish Will was here. That's my point, Will. I was gonna say, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:58

He's gonna listen.

SPEAKER_01 18:59

He's gonna listen and both ends.

SPEAKER_03 19:01

But the I mean, but the eternal life of like knowledge of God, and that there is some are you texting him right now? No, I'm not.

SPEAKER_00 19:11

You were gonna be like, how is knowledge of God right here, exactly?

SPEAKER_03 19:16

But do you know what it's interesting though? Because the way that that was sold to me at in as a kid, sometimes where people would be like, you have to say the prayer. You don't want to go to hell, you want to go to heaven. It was this like, you know, carrot, like you want to be in heaven, right? Heaven's amazing. You get a mansion, all the things. That was that was really um uh appealing. And how would you sell, don't you want to know God? You want to know God, right? Like the knowledge of God doesn't appeal in the same way on paper. It does to me, of course, because I'm a Christian and I love God and knowledge of God. But does that make sense? Like eternal life, it's easier to sell the sweet by and by than it is, I think, to say You have better people.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

My guys were only selling condos, not mansions.

SPEAKER_03 20:07

Yeah, they promised me a lot, kind of a lot. Um but yeah, that okay, so you say more. Say more about will being wrong.

SPEAKER_01 20:16

Oh, I just you know, he was yeah, I'd love to say will being wrong. Uh no, I just uh that I think in John's gospel, past, present, future are all wrapped into one thing. And so the eternal nature of it all is is knowing who Jesus is and and and that is the eternal life. And the eternal life isn't a time construct, it is a uh a way of being, a way of being one with God and one with each other. So uh that to me, I think, is what at least sells me on it is that the eternal life is something that we find that there isn't this hiccup between heaven and earth, but it is together. It's it's now right.

SPEAKER_03 21:02

The kingdom is come.

SPEAKER_00 21:04

Yeah. The kingdom isn't just coming, it already is. It's here.

SPEAKER_03 21:09

It has come. It continues to come.

SPEAKER_00 21:12

Right.

SPEAKER_03 21:13

Well, and I think that goes even to verse four. I put a question mark about I glorified you on earth by finishing the work that you gave me to do. I think that struck me because this is before the crucifixion and the resurrection and the ascension. And it's almost again that blurring of lines on the timeline, right? I've glorified you on earth by finishing the work. In my mind, I'm like, well, you haven't actually done it yet, Jesus. You gotta finish it. But it's all happened in the same way.

SPEAKER_01 21:41

It's happening all at the same time, right? And for the, you know, if you're reading the story linear linearly, but it's but if you're the church, you've heard the story and now you're experiencing it right as past, present, and future altogether.

SPEAKER_03 21:56

Right. Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:01

Well I think too, Calvin reminds us that you know without knowledge of God there's no knowledge itself. And you know, the big critical component of that whole understanding of the knowledge of God, of what our destiny is, what we're called to do, who we're called to grow up into, all of those kinds of things. And I often wonder if so much of the current challenges we see, maybe even amongst young people, about who am I is uh a real lack of understanding of who they were created to be, um and whose we are, uh that God holds us.

SPEAKER_01 22:52

Um and I wonder if it's I mean, part of that is mystical and spiritual, but part of it is is in loving one another, right? I mean, that I I give you this commandment so that you know who I am, right? Um and so I mean I think that's what we're lacking is a community that that if if we love one another, um and love being not just you know I love you, but kind of keeping track of each other and helping each other and hoping for each other and all those kind of things that that somehow we experience something of who God is and and give thanks to God for that. But you know, now we're we're joining groups that of like-mindedness and contempt for other people and all that kind of stuff, and so you bond over your mutual hatred or we all get divided up about that.

SPEAKER_03 24:02

Well, and then I mean, and whether you're in your echo chamber or you're just isolate- I mean, the isolation of you know, these tiny little screens, you know, you know, the ways that we're just so inside focused, you you forget to even look around and to see, to look up and to see others and to see those needs, to see community.

SPEAKER_01 24:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:29

What does this have to do with my installation, Donna?

SPEAKER_01 24:32

That's a good point. I you know, you know, if you just love more people. I know.

SPEAKER_03 24:37

That's all you gotta tell me to do. Just love and finish the work. I don't know. I like the protect them in your name.

SPEAKER_00 24:48

Right? I mean, what does it mean? How do you feel when somebody prays for you? And what does it mean that Jesus prays for you? Um we're so used to praying for others. But when has somebody, you know, prayed for you in a way that's powerful and moving and all of those? And then to think that Jesus prays for us. I mean, to me, that's it's pretty good. That's pretty good.

SPEAKER_01 25:29

Yeah, best uh father was here visiting and and love that man. He's such a gentle spirit. Love that man, and I love to hear him pray. Love that man, you know, and it's like you just kind of get bathed in that prayer. And it's like, hmm, I wonder if if that's like how Jesus prays.

SPEAKER_03 25:49

Yeah, and it is it's different than if you know someone just says, uh, I wish you well, or hope things go well, or you know, but for them to actually stop and speak to God on your behalf for you, yeah. There's something there's times where Michael and I will um we'll talk about things and we'll we'll we'll talk and talk. And, you know, right now it's about buying houses and selling houses and the market and all the things. And so we'll talk it to death and then we'll just stop. And I'll be like, can you just pray? Like, can you put words to all of our anxiety? Can you offer that to God? Because I think that that then takes on a completely different tone. We're we're laying it at the feet of Jesus rather than just, you know, spinning our wheels. We don't just stop there, but then we're like, okay, here's the issue. And then to hear, I mean, Michael's better pastor than I am. I think I've said that before, because he can just he'll he'll put all of that into words in a way that gives me some kind of peace. So I think you're right, guy. Like then, and Jesus is doing that, and he's doing that for us.

SPEAKER_01 26:58

Like, yeah, what a gift, right? And should relieve some anxiety. To me, it's like, you know, you know, you can go through your day and hear one critique and that's all you live off of, right? And to to be in a prayer with Jesus giving you hope and confidence and authority and joy and thanksgiving, all that, you know.

SPEAKER_00 27:25

You know, that's a gift. Yeah. What does it mean that he intercedes on our behalf? Right. Yeah. It was great to be back at church on Sunday, but it was a gift to see best dad here. Gosh, I love that man.

SPEAKER_01 27:44

Yep. All right. Well, we'll see what happens. And uh And at the end of the day, you'll be installed. You're right. That's the hope. Like a muffler. I'm sorry, no, no.

SPEAKER_03 27:56

It's a weird exactly.

SPEAKER_00 27:58

Just like a muffler. That should be the minicy.

unknown 28:03

Right.

SPEAKER_03 28:03

That should be the picture on the cover of the bulletin.

SPEAKER_01 28:05

There you go. Yes. Yeah. That's such an interesting name for what we're doing.

SPEAKER_03 28:11

Yeah, the terminology.

SPEAKER_01 28:12

I think there should be a better word for that. Oh, Lord. Who's got a prayer? Guy? Can you pray us out? Sure.

SPEAKER_00 28:24

God of love and grace, we give thanks and praise for the gift of this day and this time and the deep joy we have of working with one another and sharing the ministry of wrestling with the text. We thank you for this um coming Sunday and for uh chance for this congregation to embrace Sarah and install her as a new pastor for Adult Faith Formation. And ask, oh God, that she would feel our prayers and our welcome, but more than that, would know that you pray for her in the midst of her work. We ask, oh God, that in our time together this coming Sunday, we would celebrate the goodness of you and this vision of oneness, that we might be one. That just as the Trinity is one and God's love is overflowing so that we too are one in ministry and mission at this place. So grant us your grace as we seek ways we can serve you with glad hearts, knowing that you've called us for this season to be your light and strength and hope for a community in need. Hear our prayer in Christ's name and for His sake. Amen.