Westminster Talking the Text Podcast for Sunday, July 5th, 2026 | Matthew 11 | with Donovan Drake, Guy D. Griffith, Stephanie Boaz, Sarah Bird Kneff, Ashley Higgins, and Will Wellman

Westminster Talking the Text Podcast for Sunday, July 5th, 2026 | Matthew 11 | with Donovan Drake, Guy D. Griffith, Stephanie Boaz, Sarah Bird Kneff, Ashley Higgins, and Will Wellman

Matthew 11

11:1Now when Jesus had finished instructing his twelve disciples, he went on from there to teach and proclaim his message in their cities.

Messengers from John the Baptist

2 When John heard in prison what the Messiah[a] was doing, he sent word by his[b]disciples 3 and said to him, “Are you the one who is to come, or are we to wait for another?” 4 Jesus answered them, “Go and tell John what you hear and see: 5 the blind receive their sight, the lame walk, those with a skin disease are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the poor have good news brought to them. 6 And blessed is anyone who takes no offense at me.”

Jesus Praises John the Baptist

7 As they went away, Jesus began to speak to the crowds about John: “What did you go out into the wilderness to look at? A reed shaken by the wind? 8 What, then, did you go out to see? Someone[c] dressed in soft robes? Look, those who wear soft robes are in royal palaces. 9 What, then, did you go out to see? A prophet?[d] Yes, I tell you, and more than a prophet. 10 This is the one about whom it is written,

‘See, I am sending my messenger ahead of you,
    who will prepare your way before you.’

11 “Truly I tell you, among those born of women no one has arisen greater than John the Baptist, yet the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12 From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence,[e] and violent people take it by force. 13 For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John came, 14 and if you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah who is to come. 15 Let anyone with ears[f] listen!

16 “But to what will I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling to one another,

17 ‘We played the flute for you, and you did not dance;
    we wailed, and you did not mourn.’

18 “For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon’; 19 the Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Look, a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ Yet wisdom is vindicated by her deeds.”[g]

Woes to Unrepentant Cities

20 Then he began to reproach the cities in which most of his deeds of power had been done because they did not repent. 21 “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the deeds of power done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22 But I tell you, on the day of judgment it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon than for you. 23 And you, Capernaum,

will you be exalted to heaven?
    No, you will be brought down to Hades.

“For if the deeds of power done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. 24 But I tell you that on the day of judgment it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom than for you.”

Jesus Thanks His Father

25 At that time Jesus said, “I thank[h] you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and the intelligent and have revealed them to infants; 26 yes, Father, for such was your gracious will.[i] 27 All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and are carrying heavy burdens, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”

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Transcript

SPEAKER_07 0:03

Good morning and welcome to another Talking the Text. Today we are here without our preacher of the week. So we are going to take some liberties, really kind of following his lead.

SPEAKER_08 0:17

We always take liberties.

SPEAKER_07 0:19

This is true. This is true. Nathan Victor Scott, one of our youth interns, is going to be preaching on Sunday, and we are very excited. He just did a wonderful job of teaching about sin the last two weeks for the covenant class. So excited for him to share with us this Sunday. He let us know that he's going to be preaching on parts of Matthew chapter 11. So we're going to read the whole thing here in just a minute, but let's begin with a word of prayer. Lord God, we thank you for this beautiful morning to wake up and to serve you. We ask God that you will be with Nathan as he is actually moving himself from one apartment to another today. And pray that you will bless him and his friends who are helping him, keep them safe in this superheat. Lord, we ask that you will also be with us as we share this time around the word. We pray, Lord, that we will be truthful in what we hear and see, but especially that we listen for your true word. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen. Amen.

SPEAKER_09 1:32

Stephanie, you told us who wasn't here, who is here.

SPEAKER_07 1:35

Oh, oh. My name is Stephanie.

SPEAKER_09 1:38

My name is Sarah.

SPEAKER_05 1:40

I'm Donovan. Guy Will.

SPEAKER_07 1:44

Welcome back.

SPEAKER_01 1:47

Nice that Ashley isn't here.

SPEAKER_07 1:50

She is not.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

She had I was coming. She's still licking her wounds.

SPEAKER_07 1:56

Met with the construction person and went to the grocery store.

SPEAKER_05 2:00

That's okay.

SPEAKER_07 2:01

That's her story.

SPEAKER_05 2:02

That was her cover story. That's her cover story.

SPEAKER_08 2:05

So you're starting, Donovan?

SPEAKER_05 2:06

Oh yeah. Uh I am starting. We're going to read Matthew 11. The lectionary text is Matthew 11, 16 through 19, 25 through 30. But uh I think context is important. So I'm going to read part to uh part of 11 here. Now, when Jesus had finished instructing his twelve disciples, he went on from there to teach and proclaim his message in their cities. When John heard in prison what the Messiah was doing, he sent word by his disciples and said to him, Are you the one who is to come, or are we to await another? Jesus answered him, Go and tell John what you hear and see, the blind receive their sight, the lame walk, those with a skin disease are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the poor have good news brought to them, and blessed is anyone who takes no offense at me. And as they went away, Jesus began to speak to the crowds about John. What did you go out into the wilderness to look at? A reed shaken by the wind? What then did you go out to see? Someone dressed in soft robes. Look, those who wear soft robes are in royal palaces. What then did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, I tell you, more than a prophet. This is the one about whom it is written, See, I am sending my messenger ahead of you, those who will prepare your way before you. Truly I tell you, among those born of women, no one has arisen greater than John the Baptist. Yet the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and violent people take it by force. For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John came, and if you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah. Who is to come? Let anyone with ears listen.

SPEAKER_09 3:52

But to what will I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling to one another, We played the flute for you, and you did not dance. We wailed and you did not warn. For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say he has a demon. The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, Look, a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners. Yet wisdom is vindicated by her deeds. Then he began to reproach the cities in which most of his deeds of power had been done, because they did not repent. Woe to you, Corosine, woe to you, Beth Saida. For if the deeds of power done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I tell you, on the day of judgment it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon than for you. And you, Capernaum, will you be exalted in heaven? No, you will be brought down to Hades. For if the deeds of power done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. I tell you that on the day of judgment it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom than for you. At that time, Jesus said, I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and the intelligent, and have revealed them to infants. Yes, Father, for such was your gracious will. All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. No one knows the Father except the Son, and any one to whom the Son chooses to reveal him. Come to me, all you who are weary and are carrying heavy burdens, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light. The word of the Lord.

SPEAKER_03 5:47

No yoke.

SPEAKER_10 5:48

That's good news.

SPEAKER_09 5:55

I wonder how many of our listeners would know because that last part is the most familiar, right?

SPEAKER_07 6:02

Yeah, I think so.

SPEAKER_09 6:03

But it also seems to come unexpectedly. Jesus has been very he's given a lot of woe.

SPEAKER_03 6:11

Jesus.

SPEAKER_09 6:12

Yeah, but then it goes to this gentle, come to me, all you you know, that's kind of we proof text that oftentimes. We just pluck it out and but I think it becomes richer if we consider what's come before it.

SPEAKER_03 6:35

Donovan, when you've gone to the Holy Land, have you ever visited a course in?

SPEAKER_01 6:40

It's chorizo.

SPEAKER_03 6:42

Got it.

SPEAKER_09 6:43

It's pronounced chorizo.

SPEAKER_03 6:48

It was a real question, Donovan. Uh I don't remember. It's up outside of Galilee, and it was a town that was destroyed in an earthquake. I don't believe I did.

SPEAKER_06 7:09

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_03 7:10

Yeah. So are you saying? I'm not, other than to say it's interesting.

SPEAKER_05 7:23

All right.

SPEAKER_09 7:24

Well, I think one of the reasons he's he's talking about these other cities. So verses 20 to 24. And then that leads into isn't that is that the text that is skipped in the lectionary? It's 16 to 19. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 7:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 7:42

Which I think is hard because 25, you say, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent. Is he is he speaking directly of those cities that have rejected him, who have seen the signs, but have not received received him as as Messiah?

SPEAKER_05 7:59

I think I think this chapter is all about acceptance and rejection, right?

SPEAKER_03 8:03

Yeah. Brunner uh says in his commentary the chapters 11 and 12 give us the doctrine of the resurrected Christ, uh, doctrine of the person of Christ, and that there are six portraits. And um this one is uh he calls the fish Christ, the doctrine of Christ the Savior, which is interesting.

SPEAKER_07 8:31

I also think it's interesting. I mean, going back to the beginning of that chapter with John, who's in prison and who is sending um a note ahead, essentially sending a message to Jesus through his disciples saying, Is this the one who is supposed to come? Right. Are you the one? Because potentially this looks very strange to John because John comes in and he's all repent, repent, repent, don't be chorusine, don't he's gonna baptize you with fire.

SPEAKER_09 9:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_07 9:06

So he's like, so John comes in with this very strong, clear message change your hearts, change your ways, repent. And Jesus comes in and his ministry looks different. Um, and his response is essentially the crippled are walking, skin diseases are cleansed. And essentially, Jesus is saying, He's talking about these acts of mercy that are happening in sort of contrast to John's bold statement of repent and change everything about you. Jesus is pointing to a ministry of mercy. Right. But then we turn that, well, in my Bible, I turn the page right there, so it makes it more dramatic. And then all of a sudden, Jesus is like, To what will I compare this generation?

SPEAKER_09 9:58

You know, that is fascinating because you would think, you know, if John's saying, Are you the one who is to come, or are we to wait for another? Jesus could say, Well, tell John what you're seeing. People are repenting like left and right. I'm bringing fire and brimstone, people are scared, whatever it is. But that's his his evidence is in these acts of mercy.

SPEAKER_07 10:19

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:20

And there's an explicit economic message here too. Well, I mean, just the poor of good news brought to them, and then all the the stuff about uh a Herod. Son of Lucan. Lucan? Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, it it overlaps part of it, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 10:38

But you mean like it's the ones who are lame, the ones who have skin disease, the poor, those are the ones who are being lifted up. Right.

SPEAKER_07 10:45

So, like like at in um what is it, 25? Yeah, in 25, where um at that time Jesus said, I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth. Oh, I have a different translation, because you've hidden these things from the wise and intelligent, which I think could just as easily be said, the wealthy, the not poor, the people who are living life fine, even under Roman rule.

SPEAKER_09 11:11

Is that the translation everyone else has wise and intelligent?

SPEAKER_07 11:14

No. No, I have I have the C E B. What do you common English Bible? What is the guy?

SPEAKER_09 11:18

I have wise and intelligent.

SPEAKER_07 11:20

I have wise and intelligent.

SPEAKER_09 11:21

What do you have? Wise and intelligent.

unknown 11:23

Okay. Go on.

SPEAKER_03 11:25

Are you on NRSB?

SPEAKER_09 11:26

N R N R S B U E.

SPEAKER_03 11:27

Oh, you got the U E.

SPEAKER_09 11:29

Yeah, the updated edition.

SPEAKER_07 11:32

So I just think it's interesting because it's not like the message of repentance is gone and it's been simply replaced by acts of mercy. But the acts of mercy cannot be considered too small.

SPEAKER_05 11:48

So if you understand this, are you stupid?

SPEAKER_07 11:50

Um I don't think so.

SPEAKER_02 11:55

I'm getting a little nervous over here.

SPEAKER_01 11:58

I think it's more like the rich young ruler. Are you gonna let these things go or not? I mean, that's I think what the the turn of repentance is on. I think we spiralize spiritualize repentance, but I think it's very like uh material.

SPEAKER_05 12:14

I think it's under repenting to see the time, right? I mean, the the kids are playing the funeral dirge and nobody's playing along. John the Baptist is doing this thing and nobody's playing along. Jesus is doing his thing and no one's playing along.

SPEAKER_01 12:31

So not no one, right? Like there's like he says at 25, there's the infants.

SPEAKER_03 12:37

Right. The infants are. Yeah, but Corosine and uh Betsada. Right, right. They don't know that music. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 12:48

Don't forget Copernum.

SPEAKER_05 12:50

And in Matthew's gospel, you know, the those who get it, I guess, are those whose righteousness exceeds those of the Pharisees, right? I mean, it's a a light shining playing along stuff.

SPEAKER_09 13:10

I mean, I think this gives me comfort with the like like you said, like if you get it, you're stupid. But like but I think this idea of never having the full I mean, especially I think as a someone who's completed seminary, I've mastered the divine. Like our degrees are in masters of divinity. So we've mastered the divine, we've been in ministry, we're the experts. And so I feel like there are times where I'm like, I need to know this answer. I need to know what this is. And yet I think that openness to like to being open to the spirit and to being open to Jesus. Because isn't it, who was it that said, um, I think it was a Wendell Berry poem about like, we cannot comprehend what comprehends us. Yeah, we cannot comprehend that which is greater. And if we think we do, if we do think we have comprehended it, or if we've nailed it down, or if we have it in our little box, that is an idol, and it is not the most high God. And so I think there's some comfort here. Like, I'd I'd like to be more again. Like, I'd like to be more childlike, not childish, but childlike in my belief.

SPEAKER_05 14:22

Thinking uh going back to Genesis, bringing that up again, uh, that the you know, the the Adam and Eve story is that it's not enough. You can have it all and it's not enough. And this is you have Jesus and are you the one? It just doesn't seem to be uh enough. John baptized him too, right?

SPEAKER_01 14:53

Yeah, and supposedly would have uh witnessed the the spirit descending, right?

SPEAKER_07 15:00

I I think I still equate John with the babies and the infants though, because he is he's asking a question, and it's okay to ask questions, it's okay to seek. And that's and he's sending a question from a very hard place in his life to say, Are you the one? Are you the one? And an answer is gonna go back to him. And I think that's where the grace is. And Jesus makes such a point there in the first half of 11 to say John the Baptist has done an amazing job. He has done exactly what he was called to do, essentially.

SPEAKER_05 15:40

And um And is this playing to churches in the you know 70s who are going was was he the one?

SPEAKER_09 15:50

Not the 1970s.

SPEAKER_05 15:51

Yeah, yeah, no.

SPEAKER_09 15:53

70 AD when the temple was defensive.

SPEAKER_03 15:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 15:56

Wait, what was the Jesus movement though? That was a very good thing.

SPEAKER_03 16:00

Well, festige only 70s.

SPEAKER_07 16:02

So maybe okay, so the 1960s, not yes, they're we're talking 70s.

SPEAKER_05 16:07

70s. 70 AD. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 16:10

Got it. We're with it.

SPEAKER_05 16:12

Yeah. That yeah, that the already and the not yet, right?

SPEAKER_07 16:21

Yeah. Yeah, there's a difference in going to the the economic point. There's a difference in having so much in your life that's going well that it doesn't really matter that much who Jesus is. And being someone who just feels like they're under everybody's feet all the time and wondering who is Jesus? Like that's it. Like they need to know who is Jesus.

SPEAKER_03 16:50

One of my favorite um Bible studies to use is actually by Rabbi Kushner. And it's his meditation on Ecclesiastes, the title of which is When All You've Ever Wanted Isn't An Enough. And uh I think that there's you know something about that that is really helpful, especially for uh congregations not unlike ours, where many of the folks have had you know such blessings and comfort in their lives, and yet at the end of the day, what's that hole? It's still there.

SPEAKER_02 17:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:29

And um so you know, it it is interesting hearing these uh texts from different socioeconomic locations. Right. Right.

SPEAKER_07 17:39

Right. And and I think to Will's point, I think that's part of the point.

SPEAKER_04 17:45

Exactly.

SPEAKER_07 17:46

Um that we do need to hear that the power of Jesus is a real power, and it is act of mercy after act of mercy after act of mercy. And that's something that we are not only invited to be a part of, but commanded to be a part of.

SPEAKER_05 18:06

And and who said it in the we had this text before, and somebody said, you know, he leaves out the prisoner's earth.

unknown 18:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_07 18:15

Yes, we did do that. And I was like, there's no prisoner here, but John is in prison. Right. Yeah. That's true. That's a thing about it.

SPEAKER_00 18:24

Because we did we've done this test.

SPEAKER_07 18:25

Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_09 18:26

This is actually from.

SPEAKER_05 18:30

Wow. The doors were locked, too.

SPEAKER_09 18:33

Yeah. Because that's the that's the one thing that he would want.

SPEAKER_08 18:36

He would be like, and the prisoners are free, right? Like, I'm gonna get out here that he doesn't get out.

SPEAKER_03 18:43

And the place where he is imprisoned, Macarias over in Georgia is absolutely bleak. Yeah, really. It is bleak. Yeah. Yeah. Are you the one, or shall I look for another? Hey, I'm hurting here. Right. Yeah. Send me some, send me some good news.

SPEAKER_07 19:02

My assumption is always that both John and Jesus know that things are coming to an end for John. I feel like I feel like it's almost like the last gasp of did I point to the right thing? Yes. Was this what I was called to do? And so then when Jesus says, I assure you that no one has ever been born who is greater than John the Baptist, yet whoever is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. And so there we get that upside down again, the economy. I know. And I and I do, I feel like Jesus leaves out the prison, the prisoner on purpose. On purpose. Like, I know where you are. It gets me. But the prisoners come back. That's not the end of us being responsible for the prisoners.

SPEAKER_05 20:03

So is this a text for those who feel hopeless?

SPEAKER_01 20:13

Well, if it is, they're gonna have their head chopped off in two chapters. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 20:18

Well, okay.

SPEAKER_01 20:20

I mean, like, I'm I'm just trying to put it in perspective, right? Like, what kind of message is this then? Because I don't want to like sentimentalize this and be like, oh, this is for you uh, you know, to be upbeat when things are bad. Because like John literally gets beheaded in two chapters.

SPEAKER_07 20:34

Right. And so Exactly, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 20:37

So signing up for this Jesus thing, well, you know, supposedly we get a cross at some point, right?

SPEAKER_01 20:44

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 20:45

If not every day, right?

SPEAKER_01 20:47

So I I mean it the the I I I think it is interesting to think about because like in an American context, you know, uh persecution against Christians is like, you know, they don't say Merry Christmas. But like there are Christians throughout the world that are literally being persecuted and sometimes killed.

SPEAKER_02 21:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 21:08

Uh and so I think when they hear something like this, it I I I don't think it's like right or wrong, but it's really interesting to put in perspective, like you know, I think there is a temptation for us to be like, well, even if you're in prison, like you're in a bad spot, things are good. Like Jesus at work. But like, you know, there's there's people that are in countries that are being persecuted for their faith, and they're gonna keep being persecuted for their faith. And so like I think that's why uh John being beheaded uh is uh I mean like it's not like hopeful, but like it's a reality, right?

SPEAKER_05 21:42

But all these all these things of the blind see, the lame walk are happening on this road to the cross. Right, right. Yes. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 21:51

Right. Well, and I would think those who are in countries where they are being persecuted are Much more focused to see the ways that God is changing people's lives every day. The way that they are a part of changing people's lives every day. And I would say that because I remember taking a youth group to Mexico and they got in trouble because they kept trying to take their shirts off so that they could have like little spaghetti straps and not get tan lines. And we had a whole big thing. We had to have a whole sit-down meeting about you're not here in Mexico so that you don't have tan lines. You are here to help build this concrete cinder block house for these people who have two chickens running around their yard. And guess what? At the end of the week, there's only gonna be one chicken, and you're gonna eat that chicken. You were gonna eat that chicken and rice that they were gonna make it. There was like a Tuesday night conversation that went something like that. But then when the chicken actually did get sacrificed and shared with us, like these young folks, they were amazing people who I love so much. And they were like, I can't believe they killed our their chicken for us. And I'm like, it's not their pet. That's part of their money. That's how they take care of themselves. And they are sharing this with us because they believe they have enough. Look around. And they're like, they feel like this is enough. And I'm like, yeah. And we would be so blessed if we felt like we had enough too.

SPEAKER_09 23:32

What was the name of the devotional? When enough isn't enough?

SPEAKER_03 23:39

All you've ever wanted isn't enough.

SPEAKER_09 23:41

That's really I just put that in my Amazon wish list guy.

SPEAKER_01 23:45

Um I think to like keep pushing at this too is like there's an explicit rejection of violence here.

unknown 23:54

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 23:55

Right.

SPEAKER_05 23:55

I mean, I I think it like all this stuff always comes back to me for that Philippians 2 passage. That it that the whole thing is about that you you're emptying yourself to the point of death. And and the and the good news is that and the death and the resurrection, you know, that it's it's nothing to be feared, it's something to be the life, the good life to be celebrated against the the corruption of the world.

SPEAKER_01 24:24

Yeah, and also to like not hide away from the violence of this world, but to also explicitly reject it. And I think there's a lesson in that for us today, regardless of like our social or geographical position. And that is like that is not the path. And there's always a temptation to it in small or large ways. Um there's a beautiful, it's a it's a longer essay, it's like 40 pages essay by Simone Bay um on the Iliad. Uh and it it says the Iliad, I think the title is like The Iliad, a poem, a poem of force. And her point is like force doesn't beget anything but force. Right. Violence just begets more violence. And so, like, you know, we we could talk on like a national and political level about that. You can think about it in your own lives, like it doesn't have to be like sheer outright violence, but just the ways we try to like manipulate other people or get what we want and not look out for others. And I think that is the way of Herod. And I think John the Baptist stands against that, and John the Baptist is in a long line of people who have spoken against that, right? The prophets. And and Christ is staking the gospel on that side. And the and the prophets um make an argument that is both inherently spiritual because this is what God wants, but it's also explicitly material. God does not want violence, God does not want uh just outrageous wealth, God does not want you stepping on your neighbor's neck so you can, you know, have a step up or get what you want. And so what when I when I read this, I when I hear the woe to these cities, I I just think these are cities that are perpetuating that kind of Herod-like uh sense of of of uh of essentially death, of violence, of oppression.

SPEAKER_06 26:29

I think there is also a message um for our congregation, which is filled with the haves.

SPEAKER_07 26:42

We're the haves. Um and that message is to look beyond what you have to what Jesus asked you to do with it.

SPEAKER_01 27:02

Yeah. Well, sorry, go ahead.

SPEAKER_05 27:06

I was just reading 28 again in light of the cross. Yeah. Come to come to me, all you who are weary and carrying heavy burdens, and I will give you rest. Uh you know, John the Baptist gets his rest, right? Yes. Jesus gets his rest.

SPEAKER_02 27:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 27:25

Take my yoke upon and learn from me. I'm gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. You know. Again, to me, I think it is the defining the the beauty and the art in the sacrifice, which seems antithetical, but but it is beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 27:46

I think that's fine for me to think about for myself, but like I'm I'm also thinking like I d for uh and that maybe this is just stage of life. I don't want to hear any of that when it comes to my kids.

SPEAKER_02 27:58

Right.

SPEAKER_00 27:59

And I and I don't mean like protecting them. I don't mean like protecting them from hardship, right? But like this, like um, I don't think glorification is the right word, but like the knowledge that all will be well, even if it is a road towards like extreme suffering and death. When I think about like the call to living in community, I just think like that is not an acceptable answer to me when it comes to thinking about our kids. So I so that that could just be stage of life and feeling sensitive. But like maybe yes, like the I understand the ultimate picture, but but kind of going back to like the violence piece, like that makes me want to fight even harder for you know God's kingdom on earth as it is in heaven right now to say, yeah, that that may be or like I'm thinking about somebody and where there is a lot of persecution, like true persecution. Um I think that would be a hard pill to swallow when you think about children.

SPEAKER_05 29:22

Yeah, would you want to be the kids, the children of Martin Luther King? You know. But you got a mom, right?

SPEAKER_10 29:34

I mean there's there's there's that. I don't know. I mean it's yeah.

SPEAKER_05 29:43

What does that mean, right? What does that mean to have uh people who are all into giving themselves for a greater cause and sacrificing the next generation for it. You know, sacrificing the the parental nature of the next generation. I don't know.

SPEAKER_07 30:08

I mean, this chapter ends though with this huge promise, regardless of what's happening, come to me, come go to Jesus because that's the one who will help you bear this heavy load that you have. That's the one who's not only going to come alongside you and help you hold it, but is also gonna lead you through that struggle.

SPEAKER_05 30:38

Yeah, I think it's I don't know. I mean, I've I feel like this thing is so pushing towards death. I mean, we play the lute for you, all that kind of stuff is a funeral procession. And the rest part is kind of laying it out there, I think. I don't know.

SPEAKER_09 30:54

Like rest as in eternal rest.

SPEAKER_05 30:56

Yeah. It's it's a little bit of a apocalyptic thing.

SPEAKER_09 31:01

Where is the text about take up your cross and follow me?

SPEAKER_07 31:05

That was uh two weeks ago. Wasn't it? Or would did we just No, because Donovan was in the Psalms for so long. I remember.

SPEAKER_05 31:13

No, I think it was I gotta I gotta preach the Old Testament.

SPEAKER_07 31:16

It was the week I preached on Paul, I think, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_09 31:19

So it was in Romans?

SPEAKER_07 31:21

No, no, no. It's in Matthew.

SPEAKER_09 31:23

Jesus said it, yeah. I just oh yes, when Sophie read the on Father's Day. I was just thinking, you know, I I think I've gone through seasons of my life where I really lean into the yoke part, like, oh, he's gentle, humble, rest. His yoke is easy, it's very nice-like. And then I've had people who've said, Well, take up your cross. Like, it's my cross to bear. But like, what do those are those the same thing? Hmm. The yoke and the cross.

SPEAKER_01 31:51

The yoke is like living out the Torah. It's a rabbinic, particularly rabbinic literature.

SPEAKER_07 31:58

If and if you've been around farms much, yolks are not pretty people. No, not. They're not made of anything soft and smooth.

SPEAKER_00 32:10

And it's still work.

SPEAKER_07 32:11

They're made it's like it's a yolk is for work. Yeah, it's totally for work. And it and you are and it sticks you together in a way. So this is this is not an an easy, I mean, they're wooden, they're heavy, and they're held together by either chains or held together by big pieces of wood that are kind of pounded in, and these go around the oxen or the donkeys. And so it's that kind of yoke. Or if you think about sometimes people sort of have the image of women carrying water, even that. We don't carry water around here, people. You know, big buckets full of water and you have it resting on your neck, that's not comfortable.

SPEAKER_05 32:56

But the yoke is communion. I mean, it's you have to do it with someone else.

SPEAKER_07 33:00

You have to do it, yeah. Yeah. It's also service. I mean, in some ways, our stalls are a reminder of the yoke.

SPEAKER_05 33:08

But you can't with a yoke, you can't not come.

SPEAKER_07 33:13

You have to once you have yoke. You're on to Jesus, you are yoked up with Jesus, yeah. Which there's a promise.

SPEAKER_03 33:22

Then you have to plow to the end of the row, right? And that's that's that's that's why.

SPEAKER_02 33:28

I'm getting so misty-eyed for Iowa.

SPEAKER_01 33:30

I know you I do think uh to pull back to what you're talking about with death, Donovan, is like I I see in this like the seeming impossibility of Christ as Messiah on the cross. Just like the complete hopelessness of that moment. And yet, there's resurrection. Right. And so when I see a passage like this, I think about the followers of Jesus, the followers of John the Baptist, surrounded against seemingly or just insurmountable odds. Uh, and yet Christ is saying something that's almost delusional. Look around you.

unknown 34:11

Right.

SPEAKER_01 34:11

All these things are happening, yet Herod's still in power. Uh Jesus is gonna be turned over. John's gonna die in a couple, I don't know, was it days, right? Weeks. Uh but so I think things are changing. I mean, things are good news is happening.

SPEAKER_05 34:28

But Sunday's coming. Right, right. And so I but Sunday's already here. I mean, right?

SPEAKER_01 34:34

But I think that's that's the point, is like don't neglect just the utter devastation and evil of violence and wealth and all these other things, but also don't become apathetic because I am here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 34:51

So how?

SPEAKER_01 34:52

Exactly.

SPEAKER_09 34:53

Like how it like, but I mean, like practically, because I'm thinking, okay, I I deleted the news app from my phone because it was too much. But then I'm like, well, that's privilege to be able to just say it's too much and to be to cut it off. So then I don't want to be apathetic, but I don't want to be just sunk into this depth of hopelessness. Like what's happening in our world right now, and then to say Jesus is in power. I mean, it feels a little bit I don't know how to hold them in tension.

SPEAKER_05 35:26

Well, I think we're in yoke with our culture rather than being in yoke with our culture.

SPEAKER_09 35:30

The church as a whole.

SPEAKER_05 35:31

Everybody.

SPEAKER_09 35:32

Yeah. Not me. Speak with yourself, Sarah. It's that we've chosen to yoke ourselves to the world.

SPEAKER_05 35:43

Yeah, we gotta run. Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:46

I think that's the I mean, I feel like that's a whole nother pop. I think that's the question that everybody's asking. A lot of people are asking right now. Like I think that is so real. I cannot do, I cannot do it. I cannot do the news. Oh shoot. I recognize what that means when I say that, to turn that off. How do I hold these two things in tension? I we somebody's gotta have a better answer for that question.

SPEAKER_05 36:14

Again, I think we're in yoke with the you know, this culture and the the mindset of you know, making as much money as your parents and all that kind of stuff. But but uh I mean I think we're in that and we're trying to hold we're trying to attach a little bit of Christianity to that. And it ain't gonna work. It's not gonna work.

SPEAKER_01 36:37

But I also think the answer isn't to have a Christian culture. No. And so I think for us, it's not to oppose the culture with another culture, right? It's to live the gospel radically. Yes. And that doesn't matter what culture you're in. That's the beauty of Christianity. It's not ethnic, it's not religious, it's not um cultural. It it it it transcends and also is like imminent within all of these different things.

SPEAKER_03 37:04

I think you need to teach Christ and culture in the fall. I think that would be great.

SPEAKER_07 37:11

That would be good.

SPEAKER_01 37:12

Okay. Here we go. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 37:14

With we're still we still come to, I'm not gonna watch the news because I can't handle it. We still come to everything like we're we're waiting for a quick answer, and there isn't a quick answer. Yeah, yeah. And Jesus' response to John was this act of mercy is happening. This act of mercy is happening, and this act of mercy is happening. We can't just hide away from what's hard, of course. But we can be about mercy. And that's not just simply being a friendly Christian. That really is seeing someone who's hurting and letting it break your heart. As disciples and figure out, yeah, how you're gonna pray for that person, how you're gonna be part, a part of something that may be little and good where you are. It's not gonna fix everything, it's not gonna do anything in Iran, but it could really make a difference in somebody's life. And we are Christians all over this globe. We have to stop thinking that we are so unpowerful that we have no impact because every act of mercy all around the globe can make a huge difference.

SPEAKER_00 38:28

And what are you gonna have to lose in order to be a part of that? Because John, Jesus made it really clear what John was gonna have to lose. Yeah. I think that's so powerful. Like he's not getting out, right? It's this is not you're gonna lose something. So the question for us, what are you gonna have to lose in order to live out lose your head? Those act of mercies, acts of mercy.

SPEAKER_01 38:50

Yep. I I I I mean, yeah, this is just extremely hard. And that's why we keep coming to church.

SPEAKER_07 38:57

That's why we keep coming to church.

SPEAKER_01 38:59

That's why we keep reading these passages over and over again. There's not a simple answer. Right.

SPEAKER_04 39:04

Yep.

SPEAKER_09 39:10

Sorry, you just you didn't fix it.

SPEAKER_05 39:12

No, no, I didn't. We didn't. All right. Guy, you got a prayer? Sure.

SPEAKER_03 39:17

Lord be with you.

SPEAKER_07 39:18

And also with you.

SPEAKER_03 39:21

God of grace, God of glory. On your people, pour thy power. We come to you day after day, week after week, looking for your vision of the kingdom that calls us to follow you. To see it already breaking in, already present in our midst. And waiting for the finality of its coming. So give us hope in the midst of challenges. And that as we yoke ourselves to you, you would teach us evermore how to be your people in this world. Give us the chance to be people of hope and justice and joy as we seek to serve you with glad and generous hearts, for it's in Christ we pray. Amen.