Westminster Talking the Text Podcast for Sunday, July 12th, 2026 | Matthew 13:1-9, 18-23 | with Donovan Drake, Sarah Bird Kneff, and Will Wellman

Westminster Talking the Text Podcast for Sunday, July 12th, 2026 | Matthew 13:1-9, 18-23  | with Donovan Drake, Sarah Bird Kneff, and Will Wellman

Matthew 13:1-9, 18-23

The parable of the sower and the seed 

13:1That same day Jesus went out of the house and sat beside the sea.

13:2Such great crowds gathered around him that he got into a boat and sat there, while the whole crowd stood on the beach.

13:3And he told them many things in parables, saying: "Listen! A sower went out to sow.

13:4And as he sowed, some seeds fell on a path, and the birds came and ate them up.

13:5Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they did not have much soil, and they sprang up quickly, since they had no depth of soil.

13:6But when the sun rose, they were scorched, and since they had no root, they withered away.

13:7Other seeds fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up and choked them.

13:8Other seeds fell on good soil and brought forth grain, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

13:9If you have ears, hear!"

13:18"Hear, then, the parable of the sower.

13:19When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what is sown in the heart; this is what was sown on the path.

13:20As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy,

13:21yet such a person has no root but endures only for a while, and when trouble or persecution arises on account of the word, that person immediately falls away.

13:22As for what was sown among thorns, this is the one who hears the word, but the cares of this age and the lure of wealth choke the word, and it yields nothing.

13:23But as for what was sown on good soil, this is the one who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and yields in one case a hundredfold, in another sixty, and in another thirty."

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Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:03

Welcome to another episode of Talking the Texts Podcast. I'm Sarah.

SPEAKER_03 0:08

I'm Donovan, and I'm Will.

SPEAKER_04 0:11

Today we are in the Gospel of Matthew, chapter 13. We are looking at the beginning of this whole series of parables that Jesus preaches in the middle of the gospel. And so let us pray together and ask for the Spirit to open our ears to hear God's word. Holy Spirit, we pray now that you would be with us in our reading of this your holy word. Lord, that you would give us ears to hear, eyes to see. God, that you would help us to know a little bit more of what it means to know you, to love you, and to serve you. In Christ we pray. Amen.

SPEAKER_02 0:51

Amen.

SPEAKER_04 0:52

So Matthew 13, beginning with verse 1. That same day Jesus went out of the house and sat beside the sea. Such great crowds gathered around him that he got into a boat and sat there while the whole crowd stood on the beach. And he told them many things in parables, saying, Listen, a sower went out to sow. And as he sowed, some seeds fell on a path, and the birds came and ate them up. Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they did not have much soil, and they sprang up quickly, since they had no depth of soil. But when they when the sun rose, they were scorched, and since they had no root, they withered away. Other seeds fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up and choked them. Other seeds fell on good soil and brought forth grain, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty. If you have ears, hear. Hear then the parable of the sower. When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what is sown in the heart. This is what was sown on the path. As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy. Yet such a person has no root, but endures only for a while. And when trouble or persecution arises on account of the word, that person immediately falls away. As for what was sown among thorns, this is the one who hears the word. But the cares of this age and the lure of wealth choke the word, and it yields nothing. But as for what was sown on good soil, this is the one who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and yields in one case a hundredfold, in another sixty, and in another thirty. The word of the Lord.

SPEAKER_01 2:41

Thanks be to God.

SPEAKER_04 2:44

Um so yeah, so I get to preach this Sunday, and uh I chose this because I thought it was going to be a little easier. And then once you get into it, you're like, oh, this is this is complex. Parables are are hard for me because I feel like I'm trying to re-preach something that Jesus has already He's preached it, He's just told us what He means. So maybe I just stop with ending, like maybe I just read the scripture and I'm done.

SPEAKER_03 3:13

Well you that's what I'm thinking. I think it explains it. Right? I would say it's quite possible that Matthew explains it. And that and that and that the parable still stands.

SPEAKER_04 3:25

That's true. So I could give Matthew's explanation.

SPEAKER_03 3:28

Right. I mean, if you want the answer, that's there you get you got the answer.

SPEAKER_04 3:34

Yeah. And I mean, again, we skip over this little chunk in the middle where Jesus is talking to the disciples, kind of has this aside with the disciples. So I'm assuming the explanation is only given explanation is only given to the disciples in the narrative, right?

SPEAKER_05 3:54

If you will.

SPEAKER_01 4:00

Looks that way.

SPEAKER_04 4:02

Yeah, truly I tell first 17, truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous people long to see what you see, but did not see it, and to hear what you hear, but did not hear it.

SPEAKER_03 4:11

And then they go on to this Verse 34, he says he told them another parable, the kingdom of sorry. Jesus 34, Jesus told the crowd all these things in parables. Without a parable, you told them nothing.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

Which was to be the answer to the prophet.

SPEAKER_05 4:36

Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 4:37

And and Mark, he's alone with the disciples when he explains it.

SPEAKER_04 4:41

Yeah, so this is in Mark. Is it in Luke as well?

SPEAKER_00 4:44

I don't know. I don't think so.

SPEAKER_03 4:47

Maybe. Does he explain it in Mark?

SPEAKER_00 4:49

Yeah, it is. It's in Luke 8.

SPEAKER_03 4:50

Where is it in Mark 4?

SPEAKER_00 4:55

I think it's in Luke 8.

SPEAKER_04 4:58

Uh so here's what I've been yeah, it is. Here's what I've been playing with. Do y'all have titles? Yeah. So your title says the parable of the sower. But I think oftentimes this is preached as like the parable of the soils, right? Like we focus on the soil, what kind of soil am I? Um, if I have the if I have the gospel preached, am I receiving it? Am I allowing distraction to choke it away from all the things? So it becomes very us-focused. But then I'm like, okay, so what if I focus on the sower and the extravagance with which he's sowing? Right. I mean, that's a huge piece. Like three-quarters of his seed goes nowhere. It's just it's only that fourth that lands on the good soil, and yet he doesn't seem concerned about that.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

You never know where the good soil shows up.

SPEAKER_03 6:08

So would you say I have right now on my patio some salosia that's growing up out of nothing but a crack. And they're about eight inches tall and they're red. I got a picture on my phone. I mean, it's just to me, it's like you never know where the good soil is. And that's why the sowing is so to me, it's like the good word is plentiful, right? You can uh it it there's plenty of it. There's no reason why you shouldn't send it out everywhere. And I think the good, bad, and you know, trampled soil, that's in us at any given moment.

SPEAKER_04 7:03

Right. So I so it's not even necessarily a okay, you're bad soil, you're good soil. It's at any moment we could have that receptiveness or not to the word.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

Yeah, so I don't know why the explanation. But I I think too, like the part you skipped over is integral.

SPEAKER_04 7:28

The lectionary skipped it. I didn't skip it. It wasn't my decision.

SPEAKER_00 7:31

You're in charge here. That's right. Dealer's choice, right?

SPEAKER_04 7:36

Okay, then I might read. Yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 7:38

Well, I I I just think it becomes even more cryptic when you read this. And so, like, Donovan's kind of insinuating maybe the explanation is a later edition.

SPEAKER_02 7:50

Right.

SPEAKER_00 7:51

Uh but I'm assuming Jesus talking to the disciples is not. And I I'm just gonna read from verse 10 and I'll read a couple verses. Then the disciples came and asked him, Why do you speak to them in parables? He answered, To you it has been given to know the secrets or mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. For to those who have more will be given, and they will have abundance. But from those who have nothing, even what they have will be taken away. The reason I speak to them in parables is that seeing they do not perceive, and hearing they do not listen, nor do they understand. I I I mean like so that this is a this is something about like the knowledge or understanding of the mysteries or secrets of the kingdom of God. And there's this sense that, well, some of these people just aren't gonna understand. And those that do are gonna understand more. Um it's cryptic. I don't like have an explanation. I just think this passage is important because I think it troubles the kind of one-dimensionality of the parable of the sower, right? Like the parable of the sower. Oh, this is what it means. Da-da-da-da-da. But then you read this and you're like, well, why do some people get to know and some don't?

SPEAKER_04 9:10

Right.

SPEAKER_00 9:11

It doesn't seem very Jesus-y to me.

SPEAKER_04 9:14

Well, and I and I was reading something about like when it is, when it's recorded in Mark, you know, Mark is all about like the secret, the Messi, the messianic secret, like, don't tell anyone I've healed people. And even in that, he says, I think it says like he's talking in parables so as to keep the message more secretive, right?

SPEAKER_05 9:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:33

People are you can't you can't blame a man for just talking about seed and soil. That's that's normal stuff. But here in Matthew, it's like he's intentionally using that to kind of weed out pardon the pun, the people who would not understand it or would not be would not. He's talking in parables in order to confuse people, right? Is that what you're doing?

SPEAKER_00 9:58

I I I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 9:59

I I just think it's really cryptic and I think you have to look at Mark again, because it's if we are to believe that Mark's the first gospel and everything's borrowed from it, and that the theme of Mark is do you know who Jesus is as a son of God? And that the disciples seemingly never get it unless they go back after the resurrection and try to do it all over.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

That's what I keep wondering. Yeah. Is this something that it's like these parables will not make sense until like in post-resurrection?

SPEAKER_03 10:35

Aaron Ross Powell Yeah. I mean I think it's I think it functions in Mark to go for the reader to go, oh, I get it, whether the disciples get it or not. Trevor Burrus Right. And so then it then Matthew borrows it. And then I don't sometimes I don't know what to do with it when Matthew borrows it to try to make it fit. But when you were talking about separate you know, Matthew has the weeds and the wheat growing together, I think, right? And you leave the you leave the wheat and the weeds growing together and let God sort it out. Or the whoever it is sort it out.

SPEAKER_04 11:15

Yeah, that's that's right. That's the very next parable.

SPEAKER_03 11:17

Oh, is it really?

SPEAKER_04 11:19

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_05 11:21

The enemy sowed weeds among the wheat and went away. Let them both grow together and then collect and yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:33

So yeah, to me it's like it's taking a good news parable and making it into good for some and bad for others.

SPEAKER_04 11:43

What of the actual explanation? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:46

Which, you know, it's kind of Calvinistic, I think.

SPEAKER_04 11:49

Well, and it's very allegorical, like it's it's what we we would like for so much of scripture. Okay, you're saying this, so this needs this, and this stands for this, and this represents this. Wasn't it Origin who used to do that? Like read allegory into every scripture, and you're like, and I kind of liked reading origin because I'm like, oh yeah, that's amazing. It all fits together like a puzzle. But it but we know from experience it doesn't always, right?

SPEAKER_03 12:15

Yeah. I mean, take this room, for example. I mean, who would be the wheat and who would be the weeds in this room? And I think, you know.

SPEAKER_04 12:20

We all know, yeah, but we don't have to say it out loud.

SPEAKER_03 12:22

That's true.

SPEAKER_04 12:23

We we just all know it. No, I mean, no, I mean, I think that is the thing.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

They're looking at me.

SPEAKER_04 12:31

But I do think there's a there's a simplicity, there's a tempting as a pat as a preacher, there's temptation to simplicity of okay. You know, sermons I've read about this text. It's like, okay, are which of the soils are you? And how do you become good soil? Like how do you make yourself good soil? How do you get rid of the distractions? How do you give away all your wealth so you're not choked out by and yet it that just feels like Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:59

What's the manure in your life? Well, that that just turns it into like I'm in charge and grace isn't a thing. Yeah. That that's why I I like uh speaking of origin, like one of the things at the allegorical, which is like more spiritual reading than just straight up allegory, is that they said if there's a passage we come across that doesn't align with who God is, and they see this through largely through the prism of God is love, uh, and that God calls us to love our neighbor, then there must be a deeper spiritual meaning to it. And so some stuff they would read straightforward. So it wasn't all allegorical.

SPEAKER_04 13:39

So when you say this doesn't sound very Jesus-y, they would probably agree and say there must be a deeper meaning than just, hey, I'm intentionally confusing people with my teachings.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

Yes. And the the they're not doing this like willy-nilly. It's like we're doing this because we know who God is through Christ. And so when the scriptures, which they read in a way that was uh, I think more living and polyphonic than we do. We I think we read it really straightforward and there's got to be a simple meaning to it. Um and they saw it as something that you engage with and wrestle with, and that you know, new spiritual truths can be revealed through it. Um they would come across certain passages, for instance, like Jericho, and say, Well, God wouldn't do this. So there's some deeper meaning to this. All right. But but but I I I think with this, the thing I'm I'm wondering is like it if you read this passage, you can just turn this into like, I mean, you can just batter this down into something that's like, like you were saying, it's like a hyper-Calvinist predestination. God sows the seeds and and you know, God's kind of wild with it, and so some in Aries he knows they're not gonna grow, and others he does. But I I I wonder, too, if this is more about the kingdom of God as a secret, as a mystery that's not fully revealed until later. And so those hearing this, some of them, which is like obviously what happens are like this guy's a nutcase, or this guy's um a heretic, or speaking about Jesus, right? And so it's not until later uh that that kind of clarity about the kingdom of heaven comes. Aaron Powell Right.

SPEAKER_03 15:26

I mean, I think if if you go post-resurrection with the message of the good news, then I think the parable becomes what inhibits us, I think it it it pushes on the extravag our own extravagance with the good word. Do do are we people who sow this thing everywhere all the time, or do we choose to pick choose to think there's good soil, bad soil, all that kind of stuff out there? I mean, to me it's like, you know, I know I have to really think to be extravagant with praise or love or you know, all those kind of things, just because I don't know. Uh you know, I always think, you know, maybe my parents were like, you know, you you're not good yet. Right. I mean, you know, you know, it's not enough, you know, you keep pushing, you know. It's kind of like that scene from A River Runs Through It where it, you know, the you know, keep writing the prayer until it gets to a place and then it's finally good and he throws it up, throws it away. And it's like, huh. You know, you know, what is it? You know, what how do how do we be extravagant with a good word?

SPEAKER_04 16:43

Well, and I I mean, and that always feeds into my ability to um rationalize well, this isn't good soil, or everything isn't right, or I don't really need to speak the good word now because conditions aren't perfect, or I might offend someone, or or something. I mean, I think I'm trying to think through like where it is that I see my um what's the opposite of extravagance? Frugality in sharing the good news, or or what that looks like.

SPEAKER_03 17:16

Yeah, and it's to me it's like if things that are really good news, we have no problem sharing, right? And for some reason we get taken over by the bad soil in a sense. I mean, whatever's out there that's whispering in our ears that makes us become more frugal and yeah, whatever.

SPEAKER_04 17:46

Yeah. And it it makes me think a little bit of the the preaching moment. This week we're starting on in our book summer book group, we're starting Beakner's Telling the Truth, the gospel as tragedy, comedy, and fairy tale. And one of his great images is like the preacher dealing out his or her notes on the lectern, like a riverboat gambler, like recognizing that a lot is writing on this. And in those first few moments, before you know, the scripture's been read, word of God, thanks be to God, you have you have people because they're hungry and they want, they want a good word. And you could lose them immediately. You know, they could easily just start thinking about what's for lunch or whatever. But like the the fertility of that moment, I guess, like when we're thinking about soil. And yet that word is not dependent upon the preacher alone to provide. I think that's the hard thing for me when I keep going back and forth between us as the sewer. Like he's not clear, right? So we're the sower, but God's the ultimate sower. But he uses us because we're partners in this ministry. Um and so I, you know, I tend to say, okay, well, God's grace is sufficient, especially when preaching, but even just in our everyday living of recognizing when where the good soil is, we don't even there could probably be more good soil outside of the church on a Sunday morning at 11 a.m. than there is elsewhere.

SPEAKER_03 19:16

Um isn't it like Dominic Crosson, who's you know, tries to say, okay, let's let's not look at these things allegorically. You know, let's just see how they land. And you know, it's so hard to get out of the allegorical, you know, that that the sower is a Jesus or God or whatever it is. Um if you just look at it and you go, okay, you know, if it was Iowa, it's like, this is absolutely crazy. Uh you know, you you you put the corn in the tractor, it sows it every 13 inches or whatever, and you don't, you know, you just go down the rows and you you stop. You don't, you don't throw it into the ditch, you don't throw it on the road. It's it's money, it's all it's all money. So if you look at it like, okay, here's something that's you know, the sewer is crazy because he's sewing it everywhere or she's sewing it everywhere, throwing it everywhere. So what is that what does that mean? And uh if it's uh if it's a good word and it's plentiful uh if it doesn't run out, then I think I don't know the good word well enough.

SPEAKER_01 20:49

I I wanna I want to tighten it up.

SPEAKER_05 20:56

You mean like you want to tighten it up before sewing it?

SPEAKER_03 21:00

Yeah, I just I don't even want to if it is that good a news that you wanna you can throw it anywhere and hope for the best. I don't think I know that well enough. I mean I don't think I possess that. I'm I pick and choose where and when I'm gonna sow a good word. And and that seems counter to what this story is about. Which makes me wonder, okay, so how you know, like Paul, you know, how do you live a life that seems like it's just I'm gonna throw this seed wherever I'm gonna throw this good word wherever, you know, I don't care, you know. You got like a flagrant. Yeah. You know, to Jew and Christian, you know. To me, that's the story of Acts. It's like okay, we're gonna go to the jailer, we're gonna go to the Ethiopian eunuch, we're gonna go to you know, it's like who would have guessed? And you know, we pick and choose. We you know we choose people who are like us, think like us, vote like us, you know, to choose to send. That's where that good that's you can you c that's the good soil.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

Throw it there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:29

I think I mean I think there and I think we all well maybe if I can if I dig deep enough to think about like moments or stories I've heard where you didn't necessarily think a word would be received. You thought you were in a place of bad soil and then up pops some crops, you know, like there's that we are discerning is not always faultless. Right.

SPEAKER_03 22:53

Um and if if we think that's bad soil, are we not then bad soil? Do we not choke out the word?

SPEAKER_04 23:03

Yeah, then we are the weeds. Right. I was looking at um is it Bruner who has that really, that two-volume commentary on Matthew, the Christ book and the church book, and um he has this, he has this like whole thing about how this has been interpreted in past years. Like, I think it was Luther talked about the patience of the sower. Like he continues to sow, even though he doesn't get a crop, you know, or just a small crop, he continues to sow. And actually, it's not a small crop. I mean, that's the other piece, is that the little bit of good soil yields 160, 30 fold. Um, and then kind of going back to what you were saying, Will, there was another interpretation of victory, like even though the um the seed has been sown all over, ultimately the victory comes in the good soil at the end of time, like this, you know, the kingdom of God, the kingdom of heaven, this eschatological understanding of what is to come. And so this couldn't necessarily be understood until after the resurrection. And even here we are, after the resurrection, can it be fully understood until the the fullness of the kingdom, right? Because we've only tasted a little bit of this. Um because to say that this is like a parable of victory, you look around and you're like, I don't feel like the good soil has won. I don't feel like the good news has taken root.

SPEAKER_03 24:39

Um Yeah, I think, you know, to me it's it's the sp it's a springtime parable, right? You're you're sowing seed, you have no idea what's down the road. It's it's you know, it's like if you could have told the Iowa farmer, hey, you know, because that tornado went through your farm field, you were a fool to sow that seed there. You know. And it's like, no, it's a joyful thing. It's it's sowing the seeds with the hope that there's a that there's a harvest, that there, that the seed is good, if the soil is good, there will be a harvest that's that'll make up for anything that fails. And it to me it's like I you know, I do think Matthew is such a linear gospel that there is that kind of to the end of the age, you know, all that kind of stuff that's gonna go on in this thing. So we do the best we can now, right?

SPEAKER_04 25:48

Yeah, I don't know where I want to go with that because I do think that element of like the fact that this is the first parable, you know, there's a there's a change in Jesus' teaching style, the first of many parables. So do we do I think about the nature of parables, his teaching, the hiddenness of it, the seek, the mystery? Do I think about the sower? Do I think about the extravagant? I don't have a sermon title.

unknown 26:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:16

I mean, to me, it's also, you know, a parable is like looking at a painting, you know, in and and saying, Oh, I know exactly what that painting means, right? It can mean a multiple different things to multiple different people. You know, some people won't like it, you know. I got a great picture of my wife looking at the Mona Letha.

SPEAKER_04 26:38

Does she not like that picture?

SPEAKER_03 26:39

It's just it was in a crowd and it was like, you know, it's a postage stamp size. And she, you know, she kind of was like, this is it?

SPEAKER_01 26:46

Right.

SPEAKER_03 26:47

Okay. Yeah. And but truly, it's like, you know, Mona Lisa is probably not my cup of tea, is to but apparently it's, you know, the master at work.

SPEAKER_04 27:02

Well, y'all have been super helpful.

SPEAKER_00 27:05

I I one thing that I keep thinking about too is like I think we like to frame these things as like a final judgment. You know, am I this person, am I that person? But like obviously our lives are all of these people. Right. And sometimes double and you know, back and forth and all those things. So I mean, I don't think this helps in an interpretive sense, but I just think it's important when reading parables like this, especially from like a personal lens, not to just like finalize everything. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:38

I mean, a mystery unfolds. That's you know, I think it's that's what's so interesting. I remember maybe I said this, you know, in seminary the first time we wrote a sermon, you know, it's like, you know, in preaching class, okay, you know, you work hard, you get this sermon done on the text, and it's like, you know, this is the this is the sermon. And then I remember my professor going, okay, use the same text and write another sermon. And I'm like, oh, no, no, no. I just wrote the sermon. And it was so eye-opening to me that there were like multiple sermons you could write on one text. Yeah, yeah. You know, it's like, oh, huh.

SPEAKER_04 28:21

Which is part of the gift of the the lectionary. I mean, you've been doing lectionary for 15 years now. So like this is maybe longer. And oh yeah. 15 years here.

SPEAKER_03 28:30

And then you was a seminary with us. I was the old guy in the corner.

SPEAKER_04 28:36

But yeah, I mean, and then you just keep coming to the same text and it speaks differently.

SPEAKER_03 28:41

Differently, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:42

Um, um thank you. I think we'll be yeah, so we'll have the Matthew text and then um the Isaiah text is also that's our old testament.

SPEAKER_00 28:58

From six?

SPEAKER_04 28:58

I I believe so.

SPEAKER_00 29:00

Is that the call?

SPEAKER_03 29:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:01

Oh no, it's no, it's not the six. It's um water, snowfalls, nourishes the earth, doesn't return to the Lord until after it's nourished the earth.

SPEAKER_00 29:11

Aaron Powell Like later Isaiah.

SPEAKER_04 29:13

Yeah, later Isaiah, not the call, which is what is quoted in this.

SPEAKER_00 29:17

Yeah, that one section.

SPEAKER_04 29:18

And maybe I'll read that whole section, although I think that could be really distracting because it's disturbing.

SPEAKER_00 29:24

Well, it just opens up a lot.

SPEAKER_04 29:27

Do you want to do like a dialogical sermon, Will? Do you want to just like I say something and then you disagree with me and then I say something?

SPEAKER_00 29:35

Let's do it Monday.

SPEAKER_04 29:36

Yeah.

unknown 29:40

All right.

SPEAKER_00 29:42

We'll prep for uh children's chapel when preschool gets running back up.

SPEAKER_04 29:46

I'd love that. That's right up their alley. Um I think they would. Will would you pray us out, please?

SPEAKER_00 29:53

Sure. Gracious, holy, loving God, we give you thanks for this church and this community and this chance to gather around your word. We pray in the week ahead that we can continue to wrestle with your scripture and the way it still speaks to us today. Open our heart to your words. Uh, let them be inspiring and embolden us uh to push our faith and our questioning to wrestle with what your kingdom is and what you're calling us to do within it. We ask all these things in your son's holy name. Amen. Amen.