Westminster Talking the Text Podcast for Sunday, July 26th, 2026 | Romans 8:26-39 | with Guy D. Griffith, Ashley Higgins, and Sarah Bird Kneff

Westminster Talking the Text Podcast for Sunday, July 26th, 2026 | Romans 8:26-39 | with Guy D. Griffith, Ashley Higgins, and Sarah Bird Kneff

Romans 8:26-39

Nothing can separate us from God's love 

8:26Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness, for we do not know how to pray as we ought, but that very Spirit intercedes with groanings too deep for words.

8:27And God, who searches hearts, knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

8:28We know that all things work together for good for those who love God, who are called according to his purpose.

8:29For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn within a large family.

8:30And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

8:31What then are we to say about these things? If God is for us, who is against us?

8:32He who did not withhold his own Son but gave him up for all of us, how will he not with him also give us everything else?

8:33Who will bring any charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies.

8:34Who is to condemn? It is Christ who died, or rather, who was raised, who is also at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us.

8:35Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will affliction or distress or persecution or famine or nakedness or peril or sword?

8:36As it is written, "For your sake we are being killed all day long; we are accounted as sheep to be slaughtered."

8:37No, in all these things we are more than victorious through him who loved us.

8:38For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor rulers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,

8:39nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Well, good morning. It's uh time for Talking the Text Podcast again. Um we are uh the Trinity today. I'm Guy.

SPEAKER_04 0:14

I'm Ashley, and I am Sarah the Spirit.

SPEAKER_00 0:18

We um are missing Donovan who is flying home uh from a nice vacation, and Stephanie is under the weather, and Will has some family in who want to meet Auden. So um it is uh the three of us, and we'll be looking at Romans uh today. Ashley, can I have you read the text for us?

SPEAKER_02 0:40

Yeah, remind me where we're starting. Romans 8, 26 to 39. I would love to. All right, here we go. I've been gone so long. What do we say when we start? Hear the word of God. Hear the word of God. Our ears are open. Wow. You should feel great about me being here. Here we go. Romans 8, 26. Likewise, the spirit helps us in our weakness, for we do not know how to pray as we ought. But that very spirit intercedes with sighs too deep for words. And God, who searches the heart, knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. We know that all things work together for good, for those who love God, who are called according to his purpose, for those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his son, in order that he might be the firstborn within a large family. And those whom he predestined, he also called, and those whom he called, he also justified, and those whom he justified, he also glorified. What then are we to say about these things? If God is for us, who is against us? He who did not withhold his own son, but gave him up for all of us, will he not with him also give us everything else? Who will bring any charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. Who is to condemn? It is Christ Jesus who died, yes, who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who inters indeed intercedes for us. Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will hardship or distress or persecution or famine or nakedness or peril or sword? As it is written, For your sake we are being killed all day long. We are accounted as sheep to be slaughtered. No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, nor angels, nor rulers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation will be able to separate us from the love of God and Christ Jesus, our Lord. The word of God.

SPEAKER_00 3:12

Amen.

SPEAKER_02 3:13

Thanks be to the Lord.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

Thanks be God. All right. Well, this um magisterial Romans 8, chapter 8. What do we think?

SPEAKER_04 3:32

This is one of my favorite chat. I'm looking at one of my older Bibles and it's just all Underlined. It's one of those where you're like, you should have just not underlined anything. Because when you start underlining everything, it just doesn't make any sense. Just simple the whole thing. Yeah. I I think it's interesting that the text picks up. I mean, the lectionary has us starting at verse 26, which automatically refers us back to what happened before in the same way. So what are we talking about? Um we're talking about groaning, right? Like the spirit helps us in our weakness, the creation is groaning, um, the the labor pains of creation, the longing. Like I don't know. I feel like I could just take that whole section and copy and paste it onto our current state of affairs in the world, as it's been for all of human history, where it just feels you're so aware of the groaning of the world, of the groaning of people, of the groaning of creation. And then the promise that Paul moves to is the spirit comes alongside us, even in those, in those groans. I was I was reading something recently where that that word, the Hebrew word for it, is almost like an onomonopoeia. It's like enough or something. It ends with the sound. And the first time you hear it is in Exodus 2, when it talks about the Israelites groaning under the weight of slavery. And so even now it's almost as if I mean that's you know the formative narrative for the people of God. And so it's like we just are continuing to groan. We just have different slave masters at any given time. Um it's not Pharaoh, but I I just that that's what really struck me this time around when I was reading this.

SPEAKER_00 5:22

Yeah, I think that that's uh so important to see the the logic of the whole chapter. You know, that uh chapter eight is just one of those amazing texts, and it's so full, and to unhinged the the particular um individual cars from the train, you know, you you almost have to see the whole train. And part of I think Paul's rhetorical movement here is that the spirit, almost like Jesus' incarnation, comes to you. You know, that that uh in Philippians 2, the great descent, here we have the spirit moving to us as well and interceding. And so I was sort of tongue-in-cheek uh talking about the three of us being the Trinity, but I I think often the spirit is treated as the you know redheaded stepchild of the Trinity, and yet this is one of those places that is such a robust theology of what the Spirit does, and uh really grateful for it in the midst of our groaning that we're not alone and and that even when we don't have the words, the spirit intercedes on our behalf and with sighs deeper even than our groanings. I think that is such a beautiful affirmation of the care of Scripture.

SPEAKER_02 6:59

It's also there's so much of romance that's hard to wrap your mind around or kind of confounding. And this to me, I feel like anyone can just sit in this. I mean, it it just is so relatable. I think it's just anyone could I think could read this and say, oh my gosh, I know that, and I know that feeling, and oh here's what the spirit is up to, and here's how the spirit kind of covers me. And then you get to this just beautiful and even if, right, even if the whatever's happening in the right here and now in my body, in my family, and in the community, in politics, whatever's happening, what do we ultimately hold on to? And it's you know, verses 37 through 39. I just think it's beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 8:00

And yet there's a scandal in this text that I think is so challenging, which is all things work together. I mean, all things. Yeah, that's uh when you're going through it. Yeah, how how can you see this? I had a great family in my church in Charlotte. I may have mentioned this before, but if anything happened, they would sit down and say, Where is God in the midst of this for us? And um it was a lesson for a young pastor to kind of frame things differently. Um, you know, I think about Paul again in the beginning of the Philippians text. Um, let me tell you what happened to me. Well, he's sitting in jail at that point. Right. But he doesn't stop the sentence there. Let me tell you what happened to me that helped advance the gospel. And uh I think it's just so difficult when life tumbles in to have that perspective. We might be able to get it looking back and say, well, you know, God was with us there and we didn't know it. But um as we move into it, it is awfully difficult to discern where is God in the midst of it for us.

SPEAKER_04 9:14

Um it's a good word of warning for pastors sometimes to hold that tension, like the tension between the I mean, I've used that, those verses 26 to 27 almost as an escape hatch when I'm like praying for someone and I'm like, I don't know what to pray for. Uh we claim that the spirit in our weakness, you know, like I'll just claim the power of the spirit to come in and intercede. But it's a word of warning that we are not necessarily the ones who are called to speak, well, maybe after the fact, but like the all things working together for good, it's easy for me to think, okay, well, I need to make sense of this for the people, right? So I need to say, okay, this is why this happened and this is why this happened, and we can we can put God's plan in a little box, but that's not always and it may not even be that the good is achieved until the end of time, right? Like it's not all things are gonna work out eventually, just give it a few weeks. It's like we're in the long game here. Um and I I just it's interesting when you said like this is a relatable chapter. It is, and there's a little bit of danger in that too, because it's easy to just pluck those pieces out of the context and be like, you know, this is a band-aid, but at the same time, knowing that God is at, God is at work, even in the really difficult things. Um we had the the Genesis text or the Old Testament lesson for Sunday was Jacob's, Jacob's ladder, right? Like Jacob's dream of going up the stairway to heaven and um of the angels coming down and going up. And he says, Surely the Lord was here and I did not know it. And so I was asking the group gathered, like, has that ever happen? And of course, they're all just nodding figure. Of course, that's happened before, where you don't see it in the moment. And then often like years later, you're grateful that there was something there happening that you couldn't name at the time, that God's goodness is still true. His purpose is still at work.

SPEAKER_02 11:20

Well, and I think it's important to r remind ourselves, we talked about like the groaning. Uh just to remember that that is the it's talking about the spirit. It's not like uh in times where I am just so stuck in whatever it is, or just so down or caught or dealing with whatever. It's not just me that kind of has those those groans and those sides. Like the spirit is interceding with those sighs, with those groans. I found uh I found a huge comfort in that too.

SPEAKER_04 12:01

Um kind of going back to what guy said about incarnation, it's like it the spirit feels just as we feel in that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:12

And even more, you know, how many of us use this part of this text for the assurance of pardon, right?

SPEAKER_04 12:19

I just did on Sunday.

SPEAKER_00 12:21

And uh and yet I think we lose the last part of that, and the spirit intercedes for us.

SPEAKER_01 12:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:28

You know, what does it mean to think that the Holy Spirit is praying for us, uh, especially in the midst of our trials and tribulations?

SPEAKER_01 12:38

Right?

SPEAKER_00 12:39

This text um, amongst other things, reminds me that you know being a person of faith does not mean you are, you know, automatically uh get a get out of jail free card. Life is not gonna be all, you know, blessings and roses. And uh I think about a family that I visited uh this week who had a loved one who is dying and has died, but who has had incredible um death uh take three other members of the family over the last year or two. And uh and you know, the burdens that we we carry. Tom Long used to remind our homiletics class, you know, can you say that, knowing that folks in the congregation have just gotten a diagnosis of cancer and uh have lost a loved one and all of that. And you know, I I think we it's incumbent of us uh to, on the one hand, embrace the Psalms of Lament, giving ourselves and those whom we care for permission to cry out, and on the other hand, uh this reminder that God's plan is invincible and will uh ultimately the kingdom which is, as Donovan reminds us, already present, is also coming fully. Um and the tension of that uh is important. Uh since Will is not here and is showing baby odd and off, I found uh quote, let me see if I can find it, uh that uh I thought was really kind of fun. Go ahead and talk amongst yourselves till I can find it.

SPEAKER_04 14:40

Well, you were you were talking about the Psalms of Lament, and and Paul you know refers to Psalm 44. It almost feels out of place, um, verse 35. And it does. It's like um, who shall separate us from hardship, persecution, famine, nakedness? As it is written, for your sake we face death all day long. We are considered sheep to be slaughtered. That's actually from Psalm 44, which is one of those Psalms of Lament that doesn't ever really resolve in praise as many do. It kind of leaves it hanging. It's just like this stinks and like just leaves it there. And it's almost as if Paul is going back thousands of years to this ancient prayer and saying, Oh, let me let me uh uh attach the praise to it. This is this is not true. In all these things, we are not just conquerors, we are more than conquerors, and then ends with those really strong words. Um, I just the poetry of that, like not death, not life, not angels, not demons, not you know, he goes through the whole list. But it is interesting because I think sometimes we do shy away from lament. Um, especially, I don't think Psalm 44 is in the lectionary. I don't, I don't know, but it's one of those that just kind of leaves you in lament. And then that in itself is is a place where God will meet you. Um, oftentimes in some of the most profound ways, is in the the times when you're stripped down the most and and desperate. But did you find your quote?

SPEAKER_00 16:14

I did. One of my commentaries says, Through sufferings, that is, believers are drawn even closer to God, and surety concerning God's love thus deepens even as the grip of adverse and tightens. Ouden, in celebrating the poetic achievements of Yates, said, quote, in the prison of his days, teach the free man how to praise. Um That's from In Memory of W. B. Yates in selected poetry of W. H. Auden.

SPEAKER_04 16:46

So uh do it again.

SPEAKER_00 16:49

In the prison of his days to In the prison of his days, teach the free man how to praise. And so suggesting that one of um one of Yates's gift in his poetry, uh in the days that he was living, he taught people how to praise. And uh I thought that was, you know, a shout out to uh Will's sweet little baby Auden there.

SPEAKER_04 17:20

That's yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:21

This is a good text to remind us too that uh how often are we called to hold this good news for somebody else when they can't claim it for themselves.

SPEAKER_01 17:34

Right.

SPEAKER_02 17:35

Because we do get stuck in right, like there is there is a time to sit in the heart and the lament. Um so the the pointing to the Holy Spirit, who is also so sad for us and and interceding how do we, as believers, hold the second half, you know, of this for someone when you know, when they can't hold it for themselves is one of the the biggest gifts of the the community of faith. Um, that no, there's not something wrong with you because you can't jump to the goodness of God and that ultimately God is the conqueror of all. But I I can hold that for you until you can until until you know, until you can come up for water or until the sky clears and and you can claim that again for yourself. And I will need someone to hold that for me, you know, when when I can't in a season or in a moment.

SPEAKER_04 18:45

The first time I I heard that kind of language was at in seminary, and um it was like the end of so you had my first semester, everything was wonderful, it was exciting and new and new people, all the things. And then I came back for January term in New Jersey when the sun was setting at like four o'clock. And um, I don't even remember what the turn J term class was. It was not exciting. It might have been the problem of evil with Dr. Bolin. That would have done it for me. Um anyway, but I just remember being in a really tough spot um and going to meet with the chaplain. And she at one point was saying something along those lines like, if you can't believe that things are gonna get better yet, I will believe it for you. Like I will hold the promise for you. Um and it was the first time I'd heard it phrased like that. And now, um, and that was actually, I was I I was diagnosed with depression right at that time. And I remember now when I encounter folks who are going through that same either process of diagnosis or or seasons of darkness or anxiety, I'm like, oh, I can hold like I can do what Jan did for me. Um and so I think that there is something really beautiful that points to the the Christian community as a whole, like you're saying.

SPEAKER_01 20:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:08

Um and yeah, that there's that there's freedom in that too.

SPEAKER_02 20:15

Do you remember also the snow and the parking lots would get shoveled and it wouldn't melt until like April in Princeton?

SPEAKER_00 20:24

Hey, some of us grew up in this. The nice thing about Princeton, like Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, is you have four equal balance seasons. Not like Chicago, where winter sets in in uh around October and doesn't lift until April.

SPEAKER_04 20:42

And not like Nashville, where summer lasts through October. The humidity's 93%. Yes. No, that's and and that was kind of a um it was a good metaphor for like, you know, it's the snow was beautiful when it fell and everything was and then it just stayed and got dirty and the Wegman's parking lot.

SPEAKER_01 21:02

Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_04 21:03

Anyway, we digress.

SPEAKER_00 21:05

We do. Uh I was there so long ago we didn't have jan terms.

SPEAKER_04 21:09

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_00 21:10

We came back and took our final exams in January.

SPEAKER_04 21:13

Oh, that stinks.

SPEAKER_00 21:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:15

So like over Christmas, you're studying for your finals?

SPEAKER_00 21:17

Or not studying and coming back and thinking about how you should be studying. Yeah. Or just enjoying Christmas and then uh come back and craming if fail some exams. Not a problem. Um I did want to ask the question what does it mean to be more than a conqueror? What does more than conquer mean to you?

SPEAKER_04 21:38

Verse 37. No, in all these things, we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.

unknown 21:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:51

I mean, I think saying that you're a conqueror like Jesus. I mean, I'm thinking about Jesus conquered the grave, Jesus conquered death. And we are part of that family, but what does it mean to be more than? I don't know. I'm trying to look at um I have this parallel Bible, so I'm trying to see if Peterson has anything.

SPEAKER_00 22:15

But he doesn't render it.

SPEAKER_04 22:19

Well, he just says none of this phases us because Jesus loves us.

SPEAKER_00 22:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 22:25

That was kind of weak.

SPEAKER_04 22:26

And then he goes, then he goes on to I'm absolutely convinced that nothing. And then he goes through the list, but absolutely nothing can get between us and God's love because of the way that Jesus our master has embraced us. Yeah, it doesn't really give you any conquerors. More than conquerors, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:44

All right, well, I'm gonna get teary. Uh this is my dad's favorite.

SPEAKER_04 22:55

So this verse or just this section.

SPEAKER_02 22:58

37 through 39. And uh so it was a really big part of kind of our vocabulary. Yeah, when he was really sick, and then when he passed away. So you know, and in some things. I think it's a reminder, it 37 more than conquerors is a reminder for me that uh sometimes ultimately it doesn't get better, you know, right now, but also that like my dad will live and and death won't. So, you know, and and Jesus conquering death. I think in the here and now, when when you know there's there's tragedy or loss or hurt, we can still have life in the here and now. So maybe that's a a conquering, and then a more than more than conquerors is that you know ultimately it isn't just Jesus that that lives, but we do too. Um but I I mean I think so maybe the the more than conquerors is just the ultimate, there is life. But I I do think uh we have family friends, and I've told this story before uh who the the dad passed away really suddenly, and um it was really tragic. Um and so the next year at you know, I think it was Easter um or whatever time it was, the next year, you know, Brent was not there, but their first grandbaby had been born. And so just that idea that there's still life and and the gift that you know that is. So maybe the conquerors is there's still life on this side of things, even when there's hurt that doesn't get better. And ultimately we're gonna be more than conquerors because there's life in all of its fullness, and death can no longer win. Um the way that people talk about, you know, like cancer and things that kill the body sometimes, like, oh, he he beat it. And I'm like, actually, no, he he didn't, right? Like the cancer, the cancer won won that round, right? But also in in the cancer winning that round, that took the cancer too, right? Like the cancer won, but in the death of the body, the cancer died, it cannot continue. Right. Right. So that dichotomy, I think, is is really powerful.

SPEAKER_04 26:17

It is interesting because that that's what I was thinking when you were talking about that language we use, especially with, you know, well, she's battling cancer or oh, he beat it, or whatever it is. But even if they don't beat it, that there's that there's more that we, you know, that you're conquering on the other side of things. Like there's a there's a a greater conquer conquering that's happening. And and in again, verse 28, we know that all things work together for the good of those who love him. People sometimes would be like, okay, so that means that my dad's gonna get better. Right. Like that's the good, right? But it's like the good that we can't even see and the conquering that we don't even know beyond this life. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 27:00

Um Yeah, I I think I believe in ultimate healing, right? That uh there are there are times when um there will not be healing for someone in this life. Right. But um believe in the fullness of God, there is ultimate healing. Um and that in fact death for you know many is a gateway to peace and and love and all of that. Um I I I do feel in the deepest part of me that this text reminds us that there is ultimate healing. And um therefore death doesn't have the final word. Right. Right.

SPEAKER_04 27:53

Um that's a prayer. When I when I do um memorial services or funerals, there's there's a prayer that I I say um where it talks about like, uh, we thank you, O Lord, that for whomever, you know, name the person, um suffering is no more, they're being made new. You know, this idea, and and there are times where when everyone in that room knows, like, oh, that person, you know, battled, uh, battled cancer or dementia or addiction. And it's so, it's so um meaningful to be able to say those words and say they are no longer subject to death and suffering in this life. And um and it's like a an act of faith, right? To say, okay, now they are being made new, there's healing, there's wholeness. Um the ultimate what did you ultimate healing? Is that what you're doing?

SPEAKER_00 28:53

Yeah, there was a um a song, home free eventually, the ultimate healing or home free. Uh that was really meaningful to me uh back in the probably mid-80s. Um but I I think of that um often when I'm walking the corridors of the hospital or visiting somebody who is struggling at home that for this person, because nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus, that uh death won't have the last word and there will be ultimate healing.

SPEAKER_04 29:32

And that's what we're even, I mean, just to try and bring it full circle, that's what we're we're groaning for, right? Like that the longing, the groaning, the the pain of this life is us knowing that this is not how it should be.

SPEAKER_01 29:44

Right.

SPEAKER_04 29:45

And so there's this groaning, this longing for what was and what will eventually become again, right? Like the new, the new creation, new heaven, the new earth. And so there's something that is in us that we know is made for more.

SPEAKER_02 30:01

Yeah, we're somewhere in between.

SPEAKER_04 30:03

We're in the two.

SPEAKER_02 30:04

Yeah, exactly. Which then uh invites the question so how how are we How then do we live? Yeah, and how do we join in? Right.

SPEAKER_00 30:13

I you know uh confidently, hopefully. You know, I'm um in a bit of depression this week because the World Cup is over.

SPEAKER_02 30:25

I thought this would come to soccer.

SPEAKER_00 30:27

I was able to see over the last month 140 some amazing games of soccer. And uh a friend of mine who used to play professional soccer and coached in college, we we used to get into some conversations about strategy because the College Cup for a number of years went zero-zero and then had to go be finished in penalty kicks, and there were no great goals, and it was just such disappointing. And I asked him, you know, how would you coach if you knew the game was already won? He said, Well, I wouldn't pack the defense, I'd probably add another midfielder and another striker, and we would hammer the goal. And I think we need to live with that kind of mentality as believers. Um, the festal banner is above us. Uh we live hopefully and courageously and joyfully, um, even in the midst of suffering and and because the victory has been won. I I just to me that is a um a reminder in the midst of all of the difficulties and challenges of the world that God's not done with us and that God has something prepared for us, and then nothing can separate us from God's love.

SPEAKER_04 31:56

And I think when the church is at its best, that that it is, that's that's midfielders. Is that of is that what you said? Please keep going.

SPEAKER_02 32:05

I cannot wait for this.

SPEAKER_04 32:06

And keep going. Uh stringers.

SPEAKER_02 32:09

Stringers, you should say stringers.

SPEAKER_04 32:11

I don't know. Sorry. I know defense. Um when the church is at its best, it is sending those people out. When the church is not, and where I think we've seen the church in in recent years is that we are either defensive or reactionary or like, oh my gosh, are we sure that we can win this game? I don't know. You know, like there's this anxiety. And yet what Paul is saying is no, we are more than conquerors. We have confidence. We can go out. Um, yeah, I too am a huge fan of soccer, as you can tell. I know the soccer. Really, my biggest thing was like seeing the letters next to the flags and being like, what country's that? What country's that? What country's that?

SPEAKER_02 32:53

Well, this reminds, I mean, this is Donovan's language recently. He's on a real bender about like, I'm so tired of reactive. Yes, yeah. Like language and action. You know, how do we be proactive? Actually, I wonder how much we're gonna kind of hear that message from him in this coming year. Yeah, just in general. He just is so fed up with the church and followers of Jesus being reactive, which I think is what we're seeing from many avenues right now in our culture. Politics people are reactive, you know, and I think like social media is just everybody's just reacting to things. And he's he's fed up with it. So how this is the, you know, like uh we are a people who believe that the victory is won, like you were saying, Guy. How do we live as such? And uh that feels really compelling in in this moment, I think.

SPEAKER_03 33:57

A bender. Oxford dictionary, a wild drinking spree.

SPEAKER_04 34:03

Is that what you meant? Maybe Donovan's on a bender energy activity. A real, a real um has he's been on vacation.

SPEAKER_03 34:11

A wild spree, a wild spree. Wild spree. Take out the drinking.

SPEAKER_04 34:15

Um no, but I and I I can see that in in many corners of of the church. And I think he does have a little more freedom now. You know, he's just like, yeah, I'm I'm fed up. I like this, Donovan. I'm here for it. Well, yeah, so come on Sunday. Hopefully, we'll hear who's preaching. He's preaching. Donovan is. He's preaching. Maybe he can use the word bender. And um, and Adam is off oxing. Adam's helping out. Right. So we'll see.

SPEAKER_00 34:44

I think of that old John Bunyan hymn. Maybe we'll close with this. Remember John Bunyan?

SPEAKER_02 34:50

No, but I immediately went to Paul Bunyan. Did you know? Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 34:53

That is not different the place you go to.

SPEAKER_02 34:55

Pilgrim's progress.

SPEAKER_00 34:56

Pilgrim's progress. Well done. You went to King College, I can tell that. He who would valiant be against all disaster, let him in constancy follow the master. There's no discouragement, shall make him once relent, his first and vow intent to be a pilgrim. Whoso beset him round with dismal stories, do but themselves confound his strength the more is. No foes shall stay his might, throw he win giants' fight, he will make good his right to be a pilgrim. Since, Lord, thou dost defend us with thy spirit, we know that we at the end shall life inherit, then fancies flee away, I'll fear not what others say. I'll labor night and day to be a pilgrim. Those are good things. He, of course, was thrown in dungeons for being a nonconformist preacher back in the day, so he knows a little bit about what he speaks. Well, Donovan, we're looking forward to uh you bringing the word this Sunday. Uh, we've missed you and uh are glad you're coming back. Let's close in prayer. If the Lord be with you. God of grace, thank you for these texts that ground us in your grace and give us vision of what life means to be your followers. Help us to be valiant in the midst of vicissitudes and challenges of life, and hold on to the reminder that nothing can separate us from your love in Christ Jesus, that the Spirit comes to us in our need and intercedes on our behalf and gives us strength for the journey. Thank you for this time and for this beloved congregation. Give us your grace this day so we might show others your glory. In Christ we pray. Amen.