Westminster Talking the Text
A Lectionary Podcast at Westminster Presbyterian Church
Westminster Talking the Text
Westminster Talking the Text Podcast for Sunday, September 27, 2026 | Philippians 2:1-13 | with Donovan Drake, Ashley Higgins, and Stephanie Boaz
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Westminster Talking the Text Podcast for Sunday, September 27, 2026 | Philippians 2:1-13 | with Donovan Drake, Ashley Higgins, and Stephanie Boaz
Philippians 2:1-13
Christ humbled to the point of death
2:1 If, then, there is any comfort in Christ, any consolation from love, any partnership in the Spirit, any tender affection and sympathy,
2:2 make my joy complete: be of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind.
2:3 Do nothing from selfish ambition or empty conceit, but in humility regard others as better than yourselves.
2:4 Let each of you look not to your own interests but to the interests of others.
2:5 Let the same mind be in you that was in Christ Jesus,
2:6 who, though he existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God as something to be grasped,
2:7 but emptied himself, taking the form of a slave, assuming human likeness. And being found in appearance as a human,
2:8 he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death-- even death on a cross.
2:9 Therefore God exalted him even more highly and gave him the name that is above every other name,
2:10 so that at the name given to Jesus every knee should bend, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
2:11 and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
2:12 Therefore, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed me, not only in my presence but much more now in my absence, work on your own salvation with fear and trembling,
2:13 for it is God who is at work in you, enabling you both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
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Hello and good morning. Welcome to another Talking the Text, our podcast that we do each week together. My name is Stephanie.
SPEAKER_02I'm Donovan.
SPEAKER_04I'm Ashley. And we are here together. We're going to be looking at Philippians chapter 2, verses 1 through 13. And I've asked Ashley to read it for us this morning.
SPEAKER_01Yep, here we go. Chapter 2. If then there is any encouragement in Christ, any consolation from love, any sharing in the spirit, any compassion and sympathy, make my joy complete, be of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind. Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility regard others as better than yourselves. Let each of you look not to your own interests, but to the interests of others. Let the same mind be in you that was in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not regard equality with God as something to be exploited, but emptied himself, taking the form of a slave, being born in human likeness. And being found in human form, he humbled himself, and became obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. Therefore God also highly exalted him and gave him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every niche bend in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Therefore, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed me, not only in my presence, but much more now in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who is at work in you, enabling you both to to will and to work for his good pleasure. The word of the Lord.
SPEAKER_04Thanks be to God. And let us pray together. Lord God, we thank you for this good word today, and we ask that you will guide us as we dive in to see what it is you're saying to us. And I thank you, Lord, for this help as I move toward preaching on this Sunday morning. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen. Amen. All right. I don't it is helpful as a preacher that we get to have this podcast time together. It's and it's great. And it's fun. We enjoy it. So okay, Philippians chapter two, verses one through thirteen.
SPEAKER_02Right. I thought isn't it interesting to begin something with make my joy complete? Um I guess there are two ways, maybe, maybe more, but one way is to say, hey, you know, this is really great. It can be great. Is it a rhetorical device, I guess, is what I'm asking. To get people to click it up a notch. The kind of the good coach.
SPEAKER_04Oh.
SPEAKER_02I don't know. It's just kind of fascinating.
SPEAKER_01Encouragement, positive reinforcement.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's yeah, positive reinforcement.
SPEAKER_02You know, maybe there's not that much thinking behind it. But I think Paul.
SPEAKER_04Paul.
SPEAKER_02Paul.
SPEAKER_04And he is in a jail cell at this moment or in imprisoned one way or other.
SPEAKER_01And he does love these people. These are some of his favorites.
SPEAKER_04Yes, but of course, we're not supposed to have. Well, Joseph. Joseph, Jacob and his sons. But anyway.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Make my joy complete. Be of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord, and of one mind. It's kind of like the preacher's dream or pastor's dream, right? It's a tall order. Yes, it is.
SPEAKER_04Yes, it is.
SPEAKER_01Also, I was thinking about it from the perspective of Paul has a lot of joy, and this would just make it complete. Like that's not the sentence I would be writing from prison either. Like it's almost there. I got a lot of joy. It's almost complete. I I wouldn't be feeling that from prison.
SPEAKER_04Well, it makes me think, I mean, here he is in prison. And although Paul often has a way of saying just the right thing to get himself out of trouble, like he will just kind of automatically say, Oh, is this any way to treat a Roman citizen? And pretty soon he's got jailers who are shaking in their boots on. What? We have no idea. But in this case, it does seem like Paul maybe more than others, really doesn't know what's gonna happen. And he seems more aware that he could be jailed longer. He could be tortured, killed, could be killed.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. But and he says that. It's like, you know, I don't know. I think he says it in chapter one. You know, I don't know what I want to do. Do I want to be with you? Or do I want to be with Jesus? Yeah. I'm betwixt between the two. Either is fine. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Maybe.
SPEAKER_02But the joy, you know, the completion of the joy is what we find in the that hymn, right? That you take up the same mind and you humble yourself to the point of death, even death on a cross. And it's like, hey, I'm wondering if he's saying, you know, don't look at me in prison and going, well, this is nearing the end when the end is really the cross. And and he wants everybody to do suffer for the sake of giving your life away for the good of others.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_04So yeah, so maybe he is able to see his circumstances from sort of the high-up visual of yeah, this is a hard spot, but this is also part of serving God.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I think to me, I guess he's so taken by that uh Christ Jesus who can, you know, the equality with God is something not to be exploited. So which again uh you know I told my Sunday school class on Sunday, it's like, you know, if I had 1% God gene in me, I'd lean into that 100% of the time.
SPEAKER_03Oh.
SPEAKER_02You know? Yeah. Might even use it for betting, large stock market. Anyway, that's that's just me, which which we're not that's the word. That's no, but I mean it's like if you if you knew if you had something of the Almighty in you, wouldn't you kind of use it for your own exploitation? I you know, it's kind of the uh Jim Carrey God thing, you know? That movie where you Bruce Almighty. Yeah, right. You know, and it's like okay, you know, hey, I got this thing, watch out of there.
SPEAKER_03You know.
SPEAKER_02But to be God and go, no, what I want to be is really, really, really, really human. And to the point of being so human that I would be a servant, I would give everything for you. And that just it makes no rational sense to the human condition of survival stuff.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. That's the ask though, right? I mean, even for us, that's the ask. For it is God who is at work in you. And how do we how do we messy humans handle that?
SPEAKER_02Right? Yeah. And I was thinking this morning about you know, if that versus two through whatever it is. You know, if that is a hymn, if that is something that you know word for word, and you sing it. Um that's gotta help, right?
SPEAKER_01I was gonna ask about that. Is that the understanding here that this was a hymn that people would have known?
SPEAKER_04That's that's what scholars believe. And and some of the clues are even in the Greek, there's this indentation that happens. Right. Um and then I was listening to somebody, I gotta look up what his name was. He's from New Zealand, so he says, good name, mate. But he was fine. That's that's as close as I could get to a New Zealand accent. I also would add that as I was listening to him, I kept picturing David Lindley.
SPEAKER_02I'm sorry. No, no.
SPEAKER_04So much so that when I went back and looked at the screen and it wasn't David Lindley, I was a little surprised. It was weird. But he um he shared this um historical letter from I think Pliny was one of the subjects who was um torturing Christians. Well, not Christians, torturing, yeah, no. Yes, it was torturing Christians. And he was like, I don't understand why I'm doing this exactly. Because when I tortured these two slave women, slave girls, they I asked, so why are you here, essentially? And they basically said, because we get up before dawn one day of the week and go together and sing antiphonally. And like essentially, like it's kind of a funny letter. Obviously, it's not written like I would say it today, but essentially that's what the women were saying. And so Pliny's like, I don't know why I'm torturing these folks, but that's the order, and here we go, and maybe I'll learn more as I go along. And so this whole idea that they were singing, and Tiffany, you've got one who's singing the words, and then the others who are following, and it's back and forth and back and forth. It's very communal and full of words that mean something. Right. And and I think we often find that in our own worship that um that the words can pull something deeper out of us and draw us closer to um to God and the meaning of what God is calling us to. Sometimes our hymns can confuse us a little bit, but overall, I mean, it really is powerful. Right.
SPEAKER_01Makes me wish we knew the tune.
SPEAKER_04I know.
SPEAKER_01Wouldn't that be amazing?
SPEAKER_04That would be so awesome.
SPEAKER_01Or to hear it in a different language and really cool.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah, but I I you know, I find as I get older, the more that I keep texts in my brain, like in the morning, the better off I am. I was just thinking, I didn't do that this morning because I was in such a woke up late. My son's redoing his house. I'm working like a dog, people.
SPEAKER_03So excited.
SPEAKER_02Woke up late, was in a rush, got here in a rush, and it's like, yeah, I didn't get my chance to kind of do my head thoughts.
SPEAKER_00What do you do? What do you do? Do you recall certain kind of like you recall structures?
SPEAKER_02You know, I get you know, when I'm in the right frame, you know, I if I've taken my dog for a walk, I you know, I just do that. This is the day that the Lord has made, let us rejoice and be glad in it. And just you know, count my blessings in a sense, count my things that I'm grateful for and all that. And um, and often I'll do this hymn.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02It's it's it's just it helps me get in the right frame of mind.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_02Um and the stupid stuff that we get all jumbled over that you know, if we look back in two weeks, it's probably not worth anything, you know. Or a week or a day or whatever it is. Uh disappears. So it's like okay, this is what it's all about.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I do believe this is what it's all about. I mean, I think this is the central theme of Christianity.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Which is leaning into who Christ is.
SPEAKER_02And having that same brain.
SPEAKER_04Humility.
SPEAKER_02Together, right?
SPEAKER_04Yeah. And and embracing humility, which is a weird word for us. Right. I mean, even on the whole, we're not hearing a lot of Christians in the media talking about humility. No.
SPEAKER_03No.
SPEAKER_04I would think the louder words coming from Christian voices or voices, at least claiming to be Christian, are the opposite. Very haughty, very, we are first, we are the best, we are the right, and very contrary to how Jesus approached his life with us, and what this passage is calling us to.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and calling us to do together, right?
SPEAKER_04Yes, community. Right. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. It's also interesting because um the church in Philippi, like all the way back in Acts, where Paul is making his journeys, and and he, the Holy Spirit tells him not to go into Asia. And so he's like, okay. So he starts heading another direction, and that door sort of gets closed for him. And then he has this vision of someone saying, Come to us in Macedonia. And that's where the church in Philippi is. And um, and I think that's so helpful to remember, also keeping in mind that Paul, when he's writing these letters, as Donovan always says, Paul has a problem. And usually when he's writing these letters, because the churches are having a problem. And Philippi is a church that he loves very much. Um, they don't seem to be like completely falling apart or on the verge of destroying themselves, but they're struggling. And one of the things they're struggling with is persecution, which is happening, but also struggling, it appears they're struggling with some unity within them. And so when you go back to Acts and you think about who one of the first converts is, it's Lydia with the purple cloth. And Donovan that a couple of weeks ago mentioned blue bows versus red bows. And I thought, oh my gosh, they're they're arguing about the color of bows in Lydia's church in Philippi. Some kind of disunity is happening there. And Paul says to them, take on the mind of Christ and humble yourselves and together seek unity in him. I feel like that's sort of the core message to be like Christ, um, which we can't fully accomplish.
SPEAKER_01Sure.
SPEAKER_04Especially on our own. Sure. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And if we are to two in community, at some point or another, that involves critique.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know, of one another. And that's something I also don't feel like we know really how to do well because the loudest voices offering critique are really mean. Yes, right now, it seems, right? So how to offer, hey, I think you missed the mark on that one. Or tell me more about how that, you know, moves us together more into the likeness of Christ. And I know we don't like to talk about that kind of thing, but you know, I feel like we live in a a time where it's not okay to call someone out on something. But I feel like if we're doing this in community, that's gonna involve everything isn't you're the very best. And that's awesome. And you can have you can have your truth and your, you know, I I I wonder about like it sounds really lovely, and then I feel like it's messy.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Well, that's it goes back to that kind of Romance text, right? Where you got the green bean eaters and the meat eaters, and you know. Right. And it's like, okay, we're not gonna whatever. We're all gonna serve the Lord, you know, knock yourself out. And then, you know, I have a friend who's like who always says, well, you know, one thing, you know, there are a few things that aren't up for grabs, I think he says, you know. I get standing up for Christ in a sense. But isn't it interesting that the Christ uh dies, kind of lets go everything. Not fighting at the end.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_02Right?
SPEAKER_04And so do his closest followers. I mean, there are people in this church in Philippi who are aware of others who are being persecuted for their faith.
SPEAKER_02Right. Um So that's a very subtle victory, right? That that if you die being right and not maybe.
SPEAKER_04Or maybe we should stop being, we should keep in mind that we could die for our faith, or we could just be more civil and loving to one another and sit longer in conversation. Right. Because when we say these things and we put such a big period on the end of them that says that really sort of challenges people to dare to say you're wrong. Or we just close our mind, roll our eyes, and say that person just doesn't have it. They don't know the truth, right? But instead stay in community. I mean, or we could be dying for our death or for our for our faith. Or we could just be uncomfortable with one another. I mean, what if we could really let that happen?
SPEAKER_02Right. And how do you let your right righteousness go for someone else's righteousness that you know that maybe together it becomes a better form of righteousness? I don't know.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Like, is that possible? Is it possible that we could be so against each other in our righteousness and then ultimately because of Christ, come to find out we do have this middle ground that is not a compromise, but is actually the core truth. I mean, can we believe that's true? Could could that be possible that one person believes this so strongly because of their personal experience and what they have been shown in their life? And another person believes something that is that seems so different because of their experience. And if we were really called together in the name of Christ by the Spirit of God, could we find out that the actual truth is something we both have held on to, but we've hidden it. Hidden it behind our feelings and our experiences and and just the act of being right out loud with people.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, there's a what do you call it? Like deconstruction. What does that call it? What is that uh anyway? Deconstruction. Deconstruction is a big yeah, that is a big thing. Yeah, I'm but I remember being, you know, as a young pastor kind of, you know, deconstruction, that doesn't sound right at all. You know, um, you know, let's let's keep these things together, let's be orthodox and all this kind of stuff. And then I had someone explain it to me that you know that as you deconstruct, there is an aroma that is given off that becomes kind of the new thing, the new construct that needs to be deconstructed. But and I like that idea that you know it's almost like the more you learn, the less you know kind of stuff. Um Andrew, you know, if Christ is like that, you know, let's know more.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And don't know more.
unknownTrevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_01But these people aren't being persecuted for going around and saying, let's find Common ground. Right. Right. Like so I I wonder about that.
SPEAKER_04Well, and the and I think in Philippians, at least from from what I've been reading and studying, there are two different things happening here. One, the church in Philippi is experiencing persecution. And within themselves, there is some dishumity. Exactly what that is, is hard to say. There seem to be at least two people that are disagreeing, and maybe everybody's sort of finding their place in the camp, yeah. Or not wanting to get involved, and so this is just playing out without anyone speaking against it. I mean, it's not hard to imagine.
SPEAKER_02Or two or more gathered there's a disagreement.
SPEAKER_04Exactly, exactly. And I always think it's so important. It is true that when some when disagreement or ugliness happens in a church, it hurts people more than when it happens other places. But it's also true that there's no reason to expect there won't be hard things that happen in churches because the churches are filled with the same people who were at the school board meetings and who are at the banks and et cetera, et cetera. I mean, things are gonna happen among us, and we still have to find a way to love and see one another beyond whatever conflict it is we have.
SPEAKER_02I mean, we find it in ourselves, right? If it if in myself, you know, I desire to be like Christ, and then at any moment I decide not to be.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Right? Not in this situation. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah. Um, I don't have anybody else pointing that out to me.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02But when I'm in community, I do.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_02And I might have my reasons for not being like Christ at this moment. Very Christ like reasons, maybe. You know, it's like, you know, hey, that town doesn't enjoy us. Let's kick our sand off our shoes and move on. And, you know, it's like, no, we can't move on because, you know, everything must be reconciled. Whatever it is, you know, it's like, you know, there's gonna be a disagreement of priorities.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And how do we get over that?
SPEAKER_04That's such a good example. Uh that's such a good point. And the example I have last night, um, I picked up John. He'd wanted to go to McKay's bookstore, so we went, and that was fun. It was all fun. But then I'm on 40, all the way on the west side of town, trying to head to the east side of town, and in between is the city. And so much traffic was happening, and I'm not as as aware of which lanes I need to be in at which time. So it's a little more tense about it. And there was this one truck that kept turning on his signal, like a big semi-truck. So he's at work, he knows what he's doing. And so he's putting on his signal and trying to come over. And so I'm trying to get out of his way, but I kept ending up either like right at his front or a little bit at his back. And I got grumpy about it. And at one point I finally was like, All right, big truck. I wish you would figure out what lane you want to be in. And right next to me in the seat, John goes, Well, maybe he needs to change lanes, mom, because where he's going. And I said, That's probably a good point, John. I was like, but I am grippy right now. So it just like changed everything for me.
SPEAKER_02That's great. The directions we go.
SPEAKER_04I know.
SPEAKER_02Oh man.
SPEAKER_04Humility.
SPEAKER_01And maybe that maybe maybe that's part of what I'm I guess I'm just thinking about like like a uh like a marriage relationship or a like a really deep partnership. Like at some at some point, uh, you know, when can we kind of wonder with somebody if it's the humility thing, like, hey, I feel like you missed the mark. Right? And that cannot happen in spaces where there's occasional relationship, right? Like where I see you uh we see each other once a week, right? Like, how deep of a community is this? Or does Paul's relationship with different communities to be able to say we know one another really deeply.
SPEAKER_02Right. Yeah, but I I think you know, saying the hymn and all that kind of stuff is Yeah. You know, I think most of the time most people don't even know what the other person's thinking. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like the reason I did this and this and this is because I just did this and this and this. Right. You know, I wasn't maliciously thinking about doing this and this and this. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. And it helps to you know, I like when I think about marriage relationships, it's always like hmm. Mm-hmm. You know, it could be I was just grumpy, you know, or tired or whatever it was. You know, sure. And it's like you know.
SPEAKER_04But I think your your point is a good one that when we're in close community with one another, we can speak into those harder places. Exactly, right?
SPEAKER_01Or like I mean, you know, like with parenting, there are some times where like Jake and I can kind of look at each other and one whoever is kind of riled up, the other one can be like, why don't you tap out, tap out, right? Like let me like you're you're not gonna you are not gonna make good decisions in this moment, or like you're not in you're you're past productive parenting at this moment. Yeah. So I think that you know, how do we enter into that depth of relationship with one another to be able to do that with our faith? Yeah. I guess. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um the only reason I have a dog is because I told my daughter to ask Beth that if we could get this little puppy. So that's very manipulative.
SPEAKER_01And look what's come of it. And look, you know, Bella.
SPEAKER_04Oh my goodness.
SPEAKER_02Uh but yeah, I just don't know. You know, like raising kids, you know, the decisions you make and trying to understand the other person's decisions and and realizing, you know, that's that's almost their DNA. You know, this you know, and your DNA is something different and you know, you grew up differently. You know, most of the time most of the people I marry wedding do weddings for. It's like these two people are the most opposite people in the world. Yeah. You know? Yeah. So what you know?
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_02But they see themselves as like the other person is a strength. That's the other half of the brain I don't have. But it's like the other half of the brain I don't have, I don't know. You know?
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And that's to understand your weakness is also your strength. That's the challenge.
SPEAKER_01Takes a lot of humility.
SPEAKER_02Right?
SPEAKER_04A lot of humility, yeah.
SPEAKER_01This was mine, Jake's wedding scripture. Nice. This was two, three through five. And it was very much like, that's so sweet. You know, like, yeah, we're gonna do that. And then there are days, do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit. Regard others as better than yourselves. Also, though, I do think, and I've had this conversation, if I'm going to if I'm going to live as such that others are, if I'm gonna put myself below the needs of others, that assumes a trust that those people are gonna put my needs above theirs, right?
SPEAKER_04Like that trust in a good community they do, but you're right. That there's there's a risk involved.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And so how do we that's the that's the part I don't get. You know, to me, it's like, why did Jesus why would why would you kill Jesus? Oh and it's like, yeah, everybody kills Jesus. Why?
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02What is it about that that love or whatever it is? It's like, this is so irritating that I want to get this to end. Let the same mind being you that's in Christ Jesus. Hmm.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02What is it about Jesus that we want to kill?
SPEAKER_04Right. That's interesting. Um, Matt Skinner on one of the podcasts I like to listen to every week, which is Sermon Brainwave, um, he was talking about the Matthew passage and how the Matthew passage is in Jerusalem and starting to move toward the cross. And so um Jesus is speaking to some of the most powerful Jews in uh in all Judea. And they're asking him questions and he's just sort of evading the question that he's not giving an answer so much as he is ask asking something back and then um gives a parable. But Matt Skinner said, Yeah, and this might be a time to really think about why did they want to kill him? Because in Lent and Holy Week, it seems like we we're just going too fast and we never really get to think about that. And I thought to myself, oh, good thing I'm preaching on Philippians. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Tough. Why why do we want to kill him?
SPEAKER_02To protect our righteousness, I guess.
unknownCould be.
SPEAKER_01Well, he also makes us look bad. Right? Yeah. You know those other were very religious leaders were like, oh shoot.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01This guy's practices what he preaches, and not that they not that they were bad, right? But like against Jesus?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, but the you know, his disciples jump ship. I mean, it's like it's like, uh, okay.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. They came back. They came back. We gotta give them credit.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, not without some help.
SPEAKER_04They do. Hello, of course. But I think I think that's interesting because I think for for some people that's maybe hard to hear. Why do we kill him? Because I think in many ways, that's what scripture invites us to do is to put ourselves in those crowds, the Palm Sunday crowd, but also the crowd that says crucify him. Um, that we're really supposed to picture ourselves there to some extent. And so maybe it's not, maybe it's not about actually killing, but changing who Christ is in our minds so that it's a Jesus we can handle and live with. Right. But Philippians doesn't let us do that. This passage does not let us do that.
SPEAKER_02Well, in my job, it, you know, to me, it's like I always what I'm fighting with is you might be right, but I gotta protect the institution.
SPEAKER_04Oh, that's a tough one.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Or I don't need this right now.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_02Right? Right. To put a finer point on it. Yeah, like God is preaching.
SPEAKER_04Right, right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well, and it does seem, I mean, we've talked about this before, that what separates our faith as Christians from maybe other spiritualities or whatever, the Jesus, I mean, changes everything is an understatement.
SPEAKER_03Right, right, right.
SPEAKER_01With Jesus, I can't I can't keep to myself, right? And my interest, it automatically turns me out to others. So that self-righteousness that cannot remain central to my faith, it has to turn outward to the other. And I don't think we want that a lot of times.
SPEAKER_02Well, no, you know, to me, it's like, you know what? I'm pretty tired. You know, I'm I'm exhausted. And you want to add more stress to this thing, you know? Or whatever it is. Yeah. It's like I can't do it. I can't do it well, and I can't do it with joy. You know?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, with joy, make my joy complete. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well, and this is it, maybe kind of speaks to a different demographic. You were talking about something earlier, Stephanie, that made me think about this in a different way. That's why I I think it's hard. There's, you know, this whole realm of Christian influencers and social media. And I I think I just am continually disappointed. And not because I'm better by any means, but I think what can start so well being someone who's trying to like live and share a message of Christ on a platform like that, it ultimately has to be about you.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01You know? And I think we see that turn a lot for folks in the like Christian influenced social media world where you just kind of see it and you just know, oh shoot. Oh shoot, you just took the turn. And there's no going back. Like it. If I'm gonna make something out of this, I can't I can't do it by sacrificing all of me. Not in that realm.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And that that just is constantly disappointing.
SPEAKER_02Every time Jesus draws a crowd, he he withdraws.
SPEAKER_04Right. Oh, that's a good one.
SPEAKER_02And it's you know, it runs counter to Christian influence. You know, I need to get this many people to follow me, kind of stuff.
SPEAKER_01Well, it also runs counter to the religious leaders at the time, right?
SPEAKER_02Like Or, you know, to me, I'm always mindful of that thing because it's like, you know, if the church looks like a success, you know, what are we successful about? Yeah. Right?
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Those are it just it just is awful.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02It's just being a pastor is awful.
SPEAKER_01It's just awful. Donovan Drake, everyone.
SPEAKER_02It's great.
SPEAKER_04That's great. I think I think that's really a great point, though. I mean, I don't know that every time Jesus draws a crowd, he withdraws is gonna end up in my sermon this week. But wow, that was such a good idea. But that's a temptation, right?
SPEAKER_02That in the in the wilderness, you know, the thought is, hey, why don't you jump off this thing and you know, and everybody'll ooh and ah and think you're just amazing. Right.
SPEAKER_01You can have it all.
SPEAKER_02Not gonna do it. Not gonna do it. Well, you're God. You know, then Philippians 2 says, no, I'm not gonna be God. I'm gonna be hungry. I'm gonna be in this wilderness. I'm gonna let God be God.
SPEAKER_01Then you think you'd choose the God, huh?
SPEAKER_02Uh, in a heartbeat.
SPEAKER_04Just a good, solid reminder. Donovan is not God.
SPEAKER_02I get that all the time. Pounding into my head all the time.
SPEAKER_04I love it. I love it. Oh, goodness. Well, thank you guys.
SPEAKER_02Thank you.
SPEAKER_04Who, let's see. How about Donovan? Will you pray for us?
SPEAKER_02Oh, absolutely. The Lord be with you.
SPEAKER_04And also with you.
SPEAKER_02Oh, holy and gracious God, we give you thanks that we are not God and that you are. And uh those times in which we come into this world with all right and righteousness, we pray that we might humble ourselves and be of your mind. Help us see um you in others, and in sowing seeing such, we humble ourselves to hear and understand and to love and to be kind and to sacrifice our wants for theirs. It's hard, Lord, but uh keep us in your spirit, and we ask all this in your Son's name. Amen.
SPEAKER_04Amen.