The Traka, driving in Europe, and jelly beans

Sarah is back from Spain and has stories to tell. She narrowly avoided a virus outbreak at Rapha team camp, continued her commentating career, raced the Traka 100, and nearly got arrested (again) over a situation with a rental car (again). Plus, they continue the discussion about thinness and body image, talk about Hannah’s bargain MRI, and take a walk down memory lane to a traumatic jelly bean incident from childhood. 

Instagram: @talking.over.you

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Welcome to Talking Over You with Sarah Sturm and Hannah Sturm. Here we go. If you're gonna be an asshole, be funny. At least be funny. I thought it was a man coon. We need to have like a real athlete on.

SPEAKER_02 0:15

It makes me consider different careers every time I have to pee in my chamois.

SPEAKER_01 0:23

I don't know what to tell you. Like it's a good idea.

SPEAKER_02 0:26

I know you like not you.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

That one was not me. No. It's Sarah. I was like so fucking ready to like. It's okay. It's 1111. Well, it's 2.11 here. God damn it. That's so frustrating. I don't understand. It's different every time. I'm having a day. I'm having like a terrible, like, small business owner day dealing with taxes, and then the toilet is clogged at the shop. And I was like, okay, great. I have to record the podcast and then I'll be over. Just let the turd sit in there, I guess, and soften up.

SPEAKER_02 1:01

Yeah. Gross.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

How's Hawaii though? You can't.

SPEAKER_02 1:10

I'm here. I took time on my precious vacation. I know. Thank you for doing that. Tell you log in once again.

SPEAKER_01 1:19

You were being very nice about it, which is which is cool. Like shockingly nice about it.

SPEAKER_02 1:27

I just there's only so many emails I can send with the exact same link every time we do this. I only got one.

SPEAKER_01 1:35

I only got the one that you just sent.

SPEAKER_02 1:37

I believe you, but it that still didn't work.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

God, and you know what was funny is I was like, I really miss doing that. Like, we've taken two weeks off, and we haven't done this in a while. And I was like, Aww, I miss it. And now I'm like, do I? Do I miss this? I was thinking the same thing. Were you?

SPEAKER_02 1:55

No.

unknown 1:56

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 1:58

We're recording. I already started. Oh, good.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

I called you the C word. Yeah. Within the first 30 seconds. Unwarranted, too.

SPEAKER_02 2:09

Sitting here innocently in our nice little spot. Um, I did have a learning. I don't we don't need to like, I feel like hearing about other people's vacations is like the most boring thing ever. Absolutely. But I did I did learn that oh my god, Dylan and I are we so do not have our sea legs. We rented a kayak, a sea kayak, and I was like, get me out of the boat. Oh my god, I was like, if I blow chunks into the ocean, like I was so barfy, which is so funny because there's such a pain in the ass to like schlep around. Like Dylan was like single-handedly like putting the kayak on and off of the rental car just for us to get like so I mean it was really beautiful. Like I just ended up getting in the ocean.

SPEAKER_01 3:00

Yeah, you need to just swim snorkeling or about, but I get seasick from like snorkeling.

SPEAKER_02 3:08

Yeah, yeah. We were both kind of like sitting on the beach and Dylan was like, I can still feel the like weight.

SPEAKER_01 3:13

You need the scopolamine, the little patch.

SPEAKER_02 3:16

I need to just maybe not, yeah. It's so embarrassing. I was like, this doesn't even look cool, and it's making me sick.

SPEAKER_01 3:25

Yeah, yeah, I know. We both have have been on, you know, little little vacation vacation. Um and I also think it's boring to hear about people's vacations. However, I had one thought that we'll just recap a couple things. I mean, really, it was a very cool vacation and got to go to the Amazon and everything is spiky and poisonous and super cool. But I was thinking about travel in general. I have a lot of thoughts about travel in general and you know, being like it's a skill and getting good at it, and all, you know, all the things and how it doesn't come naturally to a lot of people. Me. Um, but the other thing I was thinking about was um how really it's just about managing poop. You know, you're like just managing like, am I not pooping or am I pooping too much?

SPEAKER_02 4:13

And that's we don't it's truly not what I think about when I travel.

SPEAKER_01 4:18

You're not traveling to South America enough. Because the whole time it was like, am I gonna poop on this out? Am I gonna poop on this what?

SPEAKER_02 4:26

Like, am I yeah, just I think you're just kind of always thinking about that too, because it's an indicator of like what's working and what's not working. So it's sort of like second nature anyway. I I find really what's so interesting, because I've traveled a couple times now with a lot of um, I would say 75-year-old people plus and there seems to be this phenomenon, and maybe it's like the vac because like Hawaii is like definitely a vacation destination. I mean, we're even on the adventurous island, we're not even like in the touristy spot, but there seems to be this thing that happens when you're like a little bit older, a little bit wiser, in that you just don't give a shit about other people. Oh, well, well, like there's just like this lack of awareness of like other people in space and time surrounding you. And maybe it's just that uh you know, smaller tasks become harder, so you have to like focus on them. But I was like, Dylan and I both were like, oh my god, this is crazy. Sort of flashback to the Palm Springs airport situation. Oh, oh.

SPEAKER_01 5:35

I thought you were saying you were traveling with people who are like like you are no, no, no. We're just like on the plane and like in transit, but I was on my favorite is being on small South American flights, uh, where it's like I'm pretty sure 90% of the people, it's their first time on a plane. Yeah. Um we were on a flight from like Lima to Cusco, I don't know, something small. And um I'm pretty sure yeah, first flight for everyone. And there's this stuff like in so Cusco, the elevation is like 11,500, like in in like the city, and so it's high altitude, but they have all these things for like altitude sickness. So like um they have this like tincture and it's like alcohol-based, it's not to drink, but it's like a scented thing, and it like has like different like aromas, and it's supposed to like you're supposed to sniff it and like help with altitude sickness. And everyone on the flight was so nervous. In the 30-minute flight, 45-minute flight, I watched the flight attendants pass out five different barf bags. Um but the girl across the aisle from me was such a nervous flyer, along with everyone, and uh she had this like tincture stuff, and she was like like snorting it, and then she was putting it in her hair and it was dripping all over my gossip. It was one of those that the plane landed, and this is like a very normal flight, like it wasn't bumpy, it was just like super normal, and everyone full of claps. Yeah, you hate to hear the claps when you land. And people were running up and down the aisle while the plane was landing, and the flight attendants were flight attendants were working overtime. They just, I don't know, they they were like a bunch of kids, and it just was Oh kids. I thought you meant like just normal people. No, like a well, kids are normal people too, they're just littler. Um, but yeah, no, it was every nobody had headphones, everyone was listening to things on speakerphone. What? Every single that's like a flight to Palm Springs. It was it was such a such wild flight. I've actually never been more anxious, mostly because I was like, somebody's gonna puke on me. I'm gonna get I'm gonna get puked on. Nobody did, so on me. Um, so we'll call it.

SPEAKER_02 7:45

I'm really excited to hop on a plane tomorrow now. We have a my first red eye.

SPEAKER_01 7:50

Your first red eye?

SPEAKER_02 7:52

Yeah, I've never taken one.

SPEAKER_01 7:55

Must be nice to be the chosen one.

SPEAKER_02 7:58

I'm sorry, you have a choice. I just chose this life for myself. No, I don't.

SPEAKER_01 8:03

I have a partner that makes us share a carry-on.

SPEAKER_02 8:05

We have to take the red eyes because they're cheaper. A lot of texts from people, and they're like, Team Sarah all the way.

SPEAKER_01 8:12

Listen, I'm on Team Sarah too. I'd like to tell you how it worked out though. Um, I had the perfect amount of clothing for the second half of the trip, which was the Amazon part, for the first half, which was a solid five nights. Um, I wore the same pants and shorts. I know I brought every stuff I brought way too much stuff. Oh, did you? I did. What a luxury. Yeah, just wore the same thing every single day.

SPEAKER_02 8:36

Dylan and I did share a massive like roly checked bag.

unknown 8:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 8:43

So we shared that. Mainly decided on a shirt.

SPEAKER_01 8:49

Carry-on. Carry-on. Oh, and I do feel bad for you. No, I'm not asking for sympathy. I'm just saying I'm right. You are. You are right. I know you're right. You know what I found out too? You know how much it cost? 30 bucks. It was 40. Yeah. I know. People know this. Yeah. I mean, to me, there were like four different flights, uh, or three. Whatever. It was enough for me.

SPEAKER_02 9:12

I do end up, I do end up uh, well, you will have another opportunity to have packing wars uh next week when we leave for Oklahoma.

SPEAKER_01 9:23

Yeah, I know how to pack for like hiking trips and backpacking and stuff. I am way less good at packing for um like things where I like have to wear like cute clothes. Yeah, where'd you go?

SPEAKER_02 9:37

Um I'm I was just thinking if Abby's able to like easily log in to this session um while we're in it.

SPEAKER_01 9:46

We do have today.

SPEAKER_02 9:49

Yeah. Which I'm really. We have a couple of things. So well, I think um if you will be at um mid-south uh in a few weeks doing that race, um, Hannah and I are gonna be hosting a live podcast. Um, it's gonna be really fun. It's basically just like a big group talk. Um, and that will be at District Bikes. Um we'll post all the information as to what day and time. Um and uh we have some really fun, very big announcements coming uh next. Is that next week? That's next week. Yeah. Okay, yeah, next week. I'm excited about you can miss this week's note. You definitely missed it. This one's a really cool one too. Yeah, I'm excited to have our token runner, poor Abby's, about to just get so many fucking questions. Hope she's ready. She does listen to the podcast, so she's gotta be ready. I don't even know what questions to ask her. I don't I have a lot.

SPEAKER_01 10:48

I'm like, well, how do you feel about walking?

SPEAKER_02 10:52

Oh, I have a bunch because I was following the race that she was just in.

SPEAKER_01 10:56

Good for you, Sarah. I'm so glad.

SPEAKER_02 10:59

Well, I'm interested. Great. I seem to have acquired a new neck wrinkle. I can see I look like one of those turtles we saw yesterday. Um, uh, yeah, so we'll be we'll um there's a lot of information as to what day, what time, coming soon. Um, I do know that we're gonna have these epic prize packs, yes, to lure you into our live podcast with Schwag from Topo Designs. Silka is doing a really cool little prize pack. Garmin is giving away one of their, a few of their um newest uh re review light, raro, uh that I just talked about. Um and let's see, what else? Who else do we have? Oh, and tailwind, um, which will be fantastic because you can actually um use some of that drink mix for your race if you're racing. Um yes, and then we'll have a couple more things, but those prize packs will be really cool, and you have to be there in person to get it.

SPEAKER_01 12:02

I'm so excited about it.

SPEAKER_02 12:04

Uh yeah, it's just gonna be fun. Hannah's never really experienced this type of bike race.

SPEAKER_01 12:09

Yeah, and so if you see me and I look really lost, maybe lend a helping hand because I probably am.

SPEAKER_02 12:16

Don't worry, it's um it's in the Midwest. There's not a whole lot of places. Or it's sorry, it's in the mid-south. Um, and yeah, it's actually, yeah, you're gonna love Stillwater. It's really cool.

SPEAKER_01 12:29

I'm so excited about it.

SPEAKER_02 12:30

In fact, I hope you do love it because we're there for a while. I know we are there for a while.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

I'm excited about the Airbnb that we booked.

SPEAKER_02 12:37

I know. We have to actually go to the thrift store to try to find some little goodies for the not goodies, but like things to um assist our live podcast setup. Um, I have no idea what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_01 12:53

I know I'm being wow, this is all a surprise for me.

SPEAKER_02 12:57

Ooh, Burp. Okay, and then here is a BSA to get your flu vaccine. Oh yeah, you got real sick. Oh my god. I cried. Like I honestly, I think that was sicker than I was with OG COVID. Like by far. The only other time I felt that crappy was when I had shingles. Oh which is no fun. No, it sucked. Yeah, I feel better now. Yeah, I feel way better, but it's definitely like I have still a bit of a chest cold that I'm having to like try to like, oh god. I don't I don't want people to think I'm like contagious and just coughing everywhere. I mean, just wear a mask. Yeah, I mean I did on the plane.

SPEAKER_01 13:42

Yeah. It's always crazy to me how few people wear masks on planes anymore. Like I I still do, especially on my way. Whoa, especially going out there because I'm selfish and I don't want to get sick on my way to something. Yeah, on the way back, I'm a little bit more lax.

SPEAKER_02 13:56

Yeah, yeah. There's yeah, it's the bummer part of travel for sure. And then, you know, when whenever you're traveling for vacation, I mean, I was like really nervous that I wasn't gonna like feel any better before this, but like there's nothing like the nerves of like international travel before a big race. Cause like, man, you get sick and then you're just kind of hosed, which is such a bummer. Um yeah, speaking of which, I don't know how much we'll just do a little recap of the bike world because a lot of the races have started um in the gravel scene. Um, there's that Santaval race in Spain that's part of the Gravel Earth series that looked, it's like a two-day race. Um, but yeah, that looked gnarly. And I what reminded me of this is um I was texting Sophia, who got the women's win uh for the weekend. They were there for the team specialized like camp ahead of time, and Keegan got injured um training and riding before the race, and he basically had to drop out of the race, and then he was supposed to race Cape Epic, and I think he's gonna have to like bail because he found out that he like had fractured his pelvis from this crash. Yeah, I know it's such and it just like I mean, it it's just such a bummer, like that sort of stuff happens to a lot of people, and it's like you know, a big risk of the sport that we do, but you can just put in all this training, all this work, do everything right, and then you just have shitty luck and get injured or crash, or I mean, cycling is really hard because like you know, those risks are high all the time, you know, and it's a little I mean, we'll ask Abby. I imagine it's like a little bit different with running because you don't crash as often, or like that's not as much of a risk all the time.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

Well, and the speed, like you're not going quite as fast as you are, and like you can wreck yourself in a bigger way, it seems like on a bike.

SPEAKER_02 15:53

Yeah, yeah, like all at once. But I think with running, it seems like the women that I follow and men, but like I think injury is pretty high, like in those high impact. I mean, the distances that those people are doing is nuts. It's crazy. Have you ever had these peelers? Have you heard of these? No, they're gummies. I like saw them because uh Kayla and then uh my friend Kayla and Anna Yama, they both have posted about them. But they have like they have a mango. I would love to try the mango one. We'll bring you them.

SPEAKER_01 16:29

Oh, also, are you flying United? Yeah. Um if you're bored on your flight home and you can't sleep, you should watch Below Deck. I have tried. I have lots of. No, it's so good. I have been watching so much below deck. I can't, you really oh, and one thing that I've learned from because like, you know, they have different like um crew from like all over the world, and on a few different seasons, there are people from France. They really do say oulala all the time. All the time. And on different seasons, I was like, maybe that's just like a this season thing and like this, you know, specific French person, but then on a different season, total like multiple different French people say oulala all the time. No idea. Oulala Oulala All the time. Did you know that? Oulala. Like I thought it was just just like a super type thing. I think they in fact do really say that.

SPEAKER_02 17:27

I haven't spent too much time. Uh let's see, let's make sure Abby has to be.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

I've just learned a lot from below deck and I just wanted to share some of my knowledge.

SPEAKER_02 17:35

What else have you learned? That's it. That's all. And um, yeah, that's it. My go-to on the flight for sleeping is putting on Harry Potter and just closing my eyes.

SPEAKER_01 17:48

That's smart. Yeah. I feel like God, I feel like it's been so long since we've talked. I feel like there's a lot that's happened. Like, we didn't I didn't see any of the Olympics. Oh gosh, I watched so much of the Olympics.

unknown 18:00

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 18:01

Yay! Yay! Wow. Now Abby, so I have to ask you straight off the bat. Oh god, on the scale of one to what on a scale of one to ten, how challenging was it for you to log on to Riverside?

SPEAKER_00 18:16

It was okay. The only thing that threw me was it was like Payson and Meg or something.

SPEAKER_02 18:21

I we don't know why that is, but shout out Meg Fisher again. I was worth it enough to know I was like, Payson's a cyclist, so I know that's cycling. Yeah, we use uh I am Payson. Did you have to create your own account?

SPEAKER_00 18:36

I didn't create an account, which is funny because I like do these enough that I should create an account, but I figured that's that's next year's problem.

SPEAKER_02 18:45

No, really, I'm just giving Hannah so much shit because we've done this like a thousand times, and literally every time I was like on early, and every time I get a phone call from Hannah, and she's like, I don't know, the the link didn't send literally every time we spend like 15 minutes walking Hannah through how to sign on to fucking Riverside every time.

unknown 19:05

I don't understand.

SPEAKER_02 19:08

She owns a small business. I'm not good at it. I like I'm good I know that she's good at it, but you're really bad at this. Thank God you only have one podcast. It's so good to see you. I'm so like almost in person. I know.

SPEAKER_00 19:27

So far, like if I was in flag right now, I would be like, maybe I should just drive, but you guys aren't even in the same room right now.

SPEAKER_02 19:33

So no, no, I'm in, I'm actually lucky enough to be in Hawaii. Um I know. Actually, Abby, did we meet? Um, were you no, I don't think so. There was another runner chick that I met on um up at Columbine Lake in the San Juans. What year would it have been? Like recent? It was a few years ago. Yeah, not last summer, but the summer before or fall. It was like right before. I like the idea of it. Yeah, I know. Well, we should meet them too this year.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

I think our closest mutual is probably Corinne, right? Yeah, totally. And then like other I like have some other Durango peeps that maybe you know, like you're in the scene. Yeah, I guess enough. I think our scenes are like all yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_02 20:20

They start to sort of like overlap a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 20:23

Well, we want to- wait, hold on. Before we start, can we can I just look at your nails?

SPEAKER_00 20:28

Thank you. I was they're chrome. Wait, yeah, they are. And then I did like a yellow star on each. I love it. They're they're my race. I was like hoping maybe nails would come up as a topic because I'm thinking I'm versed in the talking over you lore. Like I know, like I just feel like I'm joining. I'm like, I know you're part of this weird title. I feel like this is just my personal like meet and greet, like that I'm just joining the episode for.

SPEAKER_02 20:59

So well, you are you are now um our token runner friend, and we have so many questions for you.

SPEAKER_01 21:11

I mostly have questions about your nails. Like, are they builder gel? Are they acrylic?

SPEAKER_00 21:14

I wanted to know too. It's builder gel. And I feel like I just, I don't know. I feel like it's like my one bad thing I want to do, you know? Like my appointment on Wednesday. I guess like bad for me. Yeah, but it's yeah, it's just so fun. It makes me happy. Like, I don't know if you guys feel this way too, but I just feel like I'm so often in my like sport stuff. I just want like a feel that way.

SPEAKER_02 21:36

Abby, that's a thousand it is such an insane. I feel exactly the same way. Well, don't look at my ratchet nails right now. Like I paint, I weaned myself off of gel um like a month ago, and I'm going straight straight back to the devil on Wednesday. But I feel the exact same way. I'm like, we're always in our garb, you're always training, you're like, which I love. Like I feel very comfortable in those things. I'm very much sporty spice, but it's just like a really fun little thing that I get. And sorry, going back to the Olympics, Hannah and I were just about to start talking about that. I noticed all of the girls, not all, but like a lot of the girlies had cute nails. Oh. It may be either did them themselves or like it was. Yeah, I just am here for it. I love to see everyone's choices. And I especially love when it like totally clashes with your race kit. It's perfect. Because then you're like, oh, clearly the race kit was not your choice, but the nails were.

SPEAKER_01 22:35

Well, but of all of the sports, I feel like runners, especially like track and like the Olympics, like they're the ones who like really do the nails. Track have all the little like jingle jangles. Yes, they've got the like the charms.

SPEAKER_00 22:46

I think you should start doing some charms. I did a photo shoot a few years ago, and I remember I had like yellow chipped nails, and it was like when I was doing them myself. And I just remember the photographer was like, This is so on brand, like the chip. They were like zooming in on it in the photos. And I was like, I don't want that to be part of my brand.

SPEAKER_01 23:05

I like that. I like that that's part of your brand. That honestly says a lot about you in a really good way. In a great way.

SPEAKER_02 23:11

You're so authentic. So authentic down. I love when one acrylic has popped off. Oh yeah. I especially love when I step on them.

SPEAKER_00 23:24

Well, you actually have to do stuff with your hands.

SPEAKER_02 23:26

Like I do, I have thought about that like a couple years ago for like the season finale. Um, I had like pretty long nails. Like I've never done acrylic, but I've like my nails grow really fast. And they were like kind of I like the pointy, like I like when they get a little witchy, but I was like, I'm gonna be so fucked if I have to change a flat. And then of course I double flatted on that race.

SPEAKER_01 23:50

I'm just like, what you called it the season finale. The race. Yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_00 23:57

Big sugar sort of is you and you went with a rave. We're gonna start calling the first race of the season, the pilot.

SPEAKER_02 24:06

I didn't even get the replings. Abby, you are hired. You're our third. Should we introduce Abby? Yeah, go for it. Go for it. Listeners and viewers. Yeah, sorry, we're already recording. Um, we have the infamous, the amazing Abby Hall, um slash our token professional ultra runner. Are you an do you introduce yourself as an ultrarunner, a trail runner? I think so. Ultrarunner, trail runner, or something like that. What is the line of ultra? Like when do you like, are you either a marathoner or you go further than that, or is the distinction dirt?

SPEAKER_00 24:42

It's I think so it's kind of like like I would say trail running is the general bucket of my sport, but then I do ultras within that. So it's like it's kind of like the sort of trail runners or a square, but a square rectangle. It's like that kind of thing, you know. Okay, gotcha. So yeah, but like then there's also it's confusing because there are like road and track ultras too. So like there are people that are really ultras without necessarily being focused on trail. So there's like a number of distinctions, but I would say like trail and ultra running, or like the Europeans will often use the term like mountain running, like mountain. Okay, yeah. Is that when it's like fast hiking, or is that like ultra or like depending on the kind of inherently part of ultra, like especially for a race like UTMB, like where it's like a mountain race, yeah, is very much part of it. So kind of then that becomes kind of core specific. So yeah. Are you doing UTMB this year? I am what's UTMB? Okay, UTMB is the Ultra Traildue Mont Blanc, and it's a hundred. Well, there's like it's kind of become like our sports kind of like world finals, if you will. So there's like a few distances at the UTMB finals. So there's like 50k finals, 100K, and then 100 mile. And then yeah, like this year I'm gonna do the shorter one there, the 100k. I've done the hundred mile the last couple of years, but I what's the like pinnacle one? Is it the hundred mile? I mean, that's like a sensitive topic in our sport because it's like let's get into it. Like to the ultra runners, I think it's it's like a pinnacle, like probably that in western states of the hundred milers are kind of like the pinnacle. Of which Abby won. I did.

SPEAKER_02 26:26

Oh my god. Yeah, I knew Hanny didn't know that. I'm really excited to talk to you, Abby.

SPEAKER_00 26:33

That's like the unbound of trail running. That's a great comparison. I it's a really good comparison. And I'm trying to think of what the UTMB gravel comparison is.

SPEAKER_02 26:42

Or like maybe UTMB would be the unbound because it's sort of international, but it just happens. You get to go to France, um, and we get to go to Emporia, Kansas for that. Or maybe, or maybe UTMB is like traca.

SPEAKER_00 26:58

Wait, so when when is UTMB? UTMB is in August. And then the reason I'm doing the shorter one there this year is because I'm gonna do Western States in June. And I tried to do that double last summer, and it is just so insane. And it's just like ever like there's enough, like actually, like there's only like a couple people that come to mind who have like really done it really well, and it's like such an anomalous thing to pull off.

SPEAKER_02 27:24

What's the third? Like, didn't Courtney do Mont Blanc or sorry, UTMB Um Western, and then Hard Rock. Hard Rock, that's right, the one in our backyard. Are you gonna be at Hard Rock this year?

SPEAKER_00 27:38

I will probably be there in some capacity, but not racing it. But yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:42

I will also be there in some capacity, but not racing it. Oh fun. Okay, we'll have to hang up. We'll have to meet up. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:49

So I feel like there's so I have uh I don't even know where to begin because I have so many questions because I don't know anything. Anything, any like I don't know anything about like bikes, but I'm like learning about like bike racing and stuff. I really don't know anything about running, but is there like a similar type of series, or do you get to like uh similar as the like lifetime grand prix, or do you get to like pick and choose and it's just like how you do in those races? That's a really good question. The um good job, Hannah.

SPEAKER_00 28:16

Very good, relevant question. Um I so UTMB, there's like its own qualification system where you basically have to do like one of I'm like giving a I'm sure there's gonna be people that are like, that's not the system, but it's basically like you do like one of the races and qualify for the finals at one of those races, and then that kind of checks your box, but you don't have to commit to like a whole series of UTMB races, and there's not like there's not like points that are building to a score at the end. I mean, there are scores for races.

SPEAKER_02 28:48

Like, I don't know if gravel's like this where you have like a like where you get like a score for a race, like it was a whatever like a well, it just sort of define I think the Grand Prix is is kind of the only thing that has like a point system. Grand Prix, if you're in a series, you do you can like participate in the like points system, but for the most part, it's just like if you win, if like you win UTMB, your career is you know in a good place. So that's your point. Yeah, you get a big gold star on your nails, not the nails.

SPEAKER_00 29:24

Yeah, so basically, like you can get like you get scores from races, but they're not like points or anything. But you do have to like qualify for the finals, so it does require some planning in that way. And then Western States has kind of a different system where you have to get like a golden ticket, which is like I love the golden ticket thing, it's really cute. Wait, how do you get a golden ticket? Yes, the race that she was in. Like, I'm I'm describing the physical ticket right away. I'm not even describing the process. I'm like, it's a big ticket.

SPEAKER_01 29:50

I want to know about the ticket.

SPEAKER_00 29:51

It's cool. There's these like 100k races, like a or I get a couple of them are 100 milers, but there's like four or five races, and if you're like in the top two, or for some of the races, three, you get a golden ticket, which gives you entry to western states that following year. But then the other fun thing with western states is they allow like their top 10 to return and have an automatic entry, which keeps it always really competitive, and I think is a super cool format. That's a great way to do it. We have all top 10 women returning again this year, plus all the new golden ticket people. So it's like so that's cool. You're a top 10, not a golden ticket. Yeah, exactly. And I the fun part about like this past year for me is I actually like swung and missed at two golden ticket events. And the reason I got into Western States this year was because MK Sullivan, who is uh runner ahead of me at one of the ticket events, she uh became pregnant and her ticket rolled down to me, and so that's how I got entry into Western States. In a way, wow. That was like a fun, like it's there's really fun kind of like plot twists throughout the whole golden ticket. It was that was this year. What was what year did you win? This past year, and that was the year that I didn't get the ticket, but it rolled down to me because to my knowledge, it was the first time like a golden ticket winner had gotten pregnant and then it rolled down, and so it was like also this cool kind of affirmation of like how great to have pregnancy deferral options, like how cool to see like women that are in this stage of life where they're family planning, also crushing golden ticket races and like deferring their entries. So sick. So cool, yeah. Oh, we love to hear that.

SPEAKER_02 31:38

Women women you and you just did really well. You got a top five um in the last race, which I actually was following. There's a a girl from it seemed like okay, I have a big I have a lot of questions about that race. Um, I just forgot what it was called. Uh Black Canyon. Black Canyon. So I've actually I've ridden that, but it actually seems a lot of things.

SPEAKER_00 32:04

Similar but different. I mean, no, I say similar because it's also called Black Canyon. Same name. Same name.

SPEAKER_01 32:10

Similar in that it has the same name, but not at all the same. It's in Arizona. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 32:16

No, it's it seemed gnarly. Um, and you were up against, I mean, some really the the women's field looks stacked. And you had like Olympic marathoners running for the first time, and then a lot of crashes. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:34

Okay, wait, Abby, will you recap that that race?

SPEAKER_00 32:37

Like, oh yeah. Yeah, okay. I want to hear about it. It was so it was a super fun one because like you know, you've got the girls that are going for their golden ticket, which like of course, like brings out this really exciting, like I feel like people just bring out these larger than life performances to like nab that ticket, like you know, secure their spot to Western. And then you've got a couple other girls, like, for example, both Tara and Tara already had a ticket, I already had my entry from top 10. So there's like a mix of both people who need and don't need tickets. So that becomes this really fun thing as like athletes are moving through the field where it's like, okay, Black Canyon had three tickets and it rolls as far as sixth place. So sometimes like crews are doing the math where it's like, okay, oh my god, there's one, like you're in fourth place, but like the three girls.

SPEAKER_02 33:25

It really is a race for the golden ticket. Like everyone's doing that race. It's basically Willy Wonka. It's Willy Wonka. It would be fun if they gave you a chocolate bar. I would I think that would be really fun. It's crazy that they don't so so okay, you said like you and Tara. Well, did Tara get second? Tara was third. Third. So she took a golden ticket spot. She already she already had one. So then does it roll down? Oh, okay, that's kind of nice.

SPEAKER_00 33:55

Yeah, so then it rolled to Molly Seidel, and then I was behind a couple minutes behind Molly. So it was just like you guys were really close. Oh my gosh, I know so surprised. It feels like really like relatively tight together. I mean, I feel like when I was first getting into the sport, it's like you have one girl, and then 20 minutes later you have another. Like the gaps just get huge, especially because we don't have like elements like drafting, or like there's not like a benefit.

SPEAKER_02 34:18

Oh man, I had so many questions about that. Like, because it's a mass start, um, which has been really contentious in the sport of gravel, because obviously drafting is really advantageous and it isn't in running, but then like why why can you have um uh like a teammate or like someone like or a pacer? Like, what's the point of a pa? I have so many questions about pacers and like do they do they provide like um any sort of like advantage aerodynamically?

SPEAKER_00 34:51

That's a great question. There's no aerodynamic advantage, but like, and there's no there's actually like nothing a pacer can do to like support you physically unless you're in an aid station. So like they can't carry water for you or food. No, they can't carry. They probably can't touch you too.

SPEAKER_01 35:10

Can they touch you? Um, I mean they can't carry you to the bottom. Anna's like, can I get a piggyback? Piggyback would be great. Honestly, my feet kind of hurt right now.

SPEAKER_02 35:20

I love a piggyback. Your shoes or your socks look really dry.

SPEAKER_00 35:27

Yeah, so I guess you can do anything, but then like they like are able to jump in at an aid and help you. So it's really like this kind of like I it's really kind of moral support, honestly. Yeah, for like a hundred-mile race, where it's like kind of like symbolically like someone to hold back your hair while you throw up, like that kind of vibe of kind of like maybe they're talking you through, like, okay, you should try like taking a salt pill, or you should like the Yeah, because your brain is probably just mush at that point.

SPEAKER_02 35:57

You just need someone to think for you and tell you, like, okay, blink now. Exactly. Damn, that's so crazy. So is it I've seen some like discourse about it's a little bit divided in terms of like racers like thinking that pacers should and shouldn't be out there.

SPEAKER_00 36:14

Yeah, it's been like a really like interesting topic lately. I mean, I think it kind of becomes it. Like, I was trying to draw parallels in some conversations with friends about like the Leadville drop bar situation. Totally. It feels kind of a little bit like this play between like it matters, but it doesn't. Yeah, it matters but it doesn't, but then it's like also this like push and pull between like maybe where the sport's been historically and then like where it's going now that there's like well-developed pro fields and like that shift. So like I think like well, I guess I don't know if all the races in like in the lifetime Grand Prix are like this. Are they all mass? No, they're not all mass starts with amateur fields or not.

SPEAKER_02 36:56

We have our own. I mean, but that's been an evolution of gravel. Um, and I'm curious like if running will move that way too. But what is it right now?

SPEAKER_01 37:05

What is how does it start its mass start?

SPEAKER_00 37:08

Yeah, oh for for running. Yeah, yeah, Abby, yeah, for you. It's all mass, like all mass start. So it's like the pros are at the front. The pros are at the front. So for example, like at UTMB, it's like whatever, several thousand people all starting at once. The pros are like you get like that score thing I was referring to earlier. You get like in a little bucket up front where you're all kind of like in a pen and you're released at the front. But then it's like what's really tricky, I think, especially for like women within mass starts, is then like the elite women are basically racing with like the, I don't want to say that it's always like, I don't know, the terms are weird, like sub-elite, like men or whatever, but like men that are maybe not in the front pack become very much part of the women's race. Yeah. Or men that or pro-men that have maybe fallen off or aren't having their day. So like, I don't know, labels are always tricky like that. But like it becomes an interesting um component where, like, you know, talking with my friends who are like pro-males, they're like used to having these very head-to-head racing experiences where it's like, like, say they're battling for the win and it's three guys. It's those three guys in the woods racing each other, versus like there's a different element sometimes, say, for the top women, where there's like also, you know, like other men in the mix, and you're having to like pass people, like a race like out at UTMB. It wouldn't be uncommon for me to be in like whatever, 150th place overall at like the top of the first climb, and then end up in like whatever, like say for like the shorter race out there, where I've actually like pulled it together a little bit more, like finish in the top 30 overall. Wow and like have to work through passing like 120 guys over that.

SPEAKER_02 38:48

Because passing, especially I mean, on those those mountains are extreme. Honey, like picture like the gnarly hikes and stuff that we do in Silverton. That's what they're running on. Yeah, like that. You should come in, we should go and watch the hard rock this year. I would love to do that. I'd love to be honestly. I we were we watched it last, was it or two years ago? Anyway, I went and watched it one year, um, Hard Rock, and it was sort of like my first experience. Like we saw Courtney, like we were camped out, like um, I just forgot the uh we were like in Grouse Gulch. I anyway, we were like in like I think halfway on the course. So like we saw the really fast, like top pro men, and uh I think just Courtney um came through right before sunset. And then we sli camped that night, slept in, did a little hike, watched the rest of the people come through that next like late morning, and seeing the difference between those top pros before sunset, and then we had a full night's sleep and you know, breakfast in the morning, and then watched the rest of the I I don't think those people were finishing, like they were just trying to make it to the next aid station before getting cut off, but they were shelves of human beings, like there was like and those races it makes sense to have a pacer because I think it's probably a liability otherwise. Like, there's no way that those people would find the trail, let alone like their feet under themselves. Sorry, I just totally changed.

SPEAKER_01 40:18

Abby, how many hours are we talking?

SPEAKER_00 40:20

Like so, my like best like for a hundred miler, like say western states is shorter duration. Like my time at Western States this last year was a little over 16 and a half hours. Jesus Christ. Like at UTMB, I mean, I think my UTMB time was like 31 hours. I mean, it wasn't a good UTMB, but it was a UTMB. But like it can be really, really long. So it's like wait, are you sleeping?

SPEAKER_01 40:44

Wait, hold on.

SPEAKER_02 40:45

I feel like I'm I know that opening. This is why I was so excited for Abby to be on the pod. It's so gnarly. You're running that whole thing. What are you doing?

SPEAKER_01 40:54

Holding with Abby to tell us. You've never done one. Shut up. I know, I'm just saying it's so it's so gnarly. Okay, tell us about sleeping, eating, peeing, and pooping. Yeah. Perfect.

SPEAKER_00 41:09

Okay, like I guess like first I'll say too, there's like like either fast hundred milers or like maybe 100K or less would be a more normal day of racing that I would say, Sarah, is more like akin to what you're doing. Like end-to-end racing, you're eating sports nutrition the whole time. You're like, yeah, like you're, you know, racing full gas the whole time. But then I would say like for mountainous hundred milers and even like some, there's some mountainous like 100K or 120k where it gets more like hikey overnight, and then those kind of devolve into this whole other like world of all not a whole other world, because it's like a lot of people will pick like a few races like that to do and still do some like faster 100k is like so you can do multiple of those in a season and not be totally fucked. Well, it's kind of like the the like the dance is like you know, like last summer when I tried to do Western States and UTMB, that was just like so much. Um I didn't get injured, but it was just like it was really hard for me to change gears into like that like very different style of racing, like going from like really fast, really runnable, to like at UTMB, it was like survival, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 42:24

And I was just like drained, so I just feel like different sports to me. Like that's what's so crazy, like about the sport of trail running, I guess, is that sleeping eating pee pooping peeing. Sorry, I just I have so many questions too about like what your sponsors expect of you. I know, but I just need to know about pooping and peeing questions.

SPEAKER_00 42:48

Like some I mean, I have like had some real like walk it in kind of like rough days where like I am very much like like say like my the first time I finished UTMB, like and this is like even like as a pro and stuff, like it's not like I was still like pulling off and setting like a two-minute alarm on my phone, and just they have this little thing on the back. Okay, when you pick up your bib, there's like a little thing that you can pin on your back that says like I'm sleeping, so that you know it's not like just like a body laying on the side of the trail, you know, because like you're in like like for UTMB, people that are finishing against the cutoffs are doing two full overnights, and like the clock keeps going, it's not like you know, you can pause the clock and get eight hours and get like and that's most people, like most participants in UTMB and these gnarly races are are prepared to like camp twice. But not but you're not camping, you're sleeping for two minutes at a time. Yeah, exactly. Or or like you know, some people will do longer, but like, yeah, I I will just like I've gotten our naps like that. Exactly. Or the best is like for a race with a pacer. I've I've had it where like my husband will be pacing me and he'll be like, Okay, you can do a 10 minute nap, and then he'll I'll just like Drop on a pile of rocks and they'll be like, all right, that was 30 seconds. Like, time to wake up, sleepy head. And I'll be like, wow, I feel so much better. Like that 10-minute nap really did the trick.

SPEAKER_01 44:09

And like that's so insane. Wait, so he just lies to you and tells you that it's been 10 minutes. That's a good, that's a good race support, right? That's a good pacer. That's a good pacer.

SPEAKER_00 44:21

I'm just like, wow, like so right. That was the right move. I feel so refreshed. That was like I would have trust issues with my husband doing that.

SPEAKER_02 44:28

Oh no, that would make me trust him more. Like, you know, we know the goal here. Yeah. He probably knows like when I mean, and he's also a professional runner, so he's been on both sides. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 44:39

Yeah. He um, yeah, he's like super crazy. Yeah, he we used to be like teammates with Adidas, and he like stepped away from that last year. Is that how you met a half ago? We met in like a at like a run club in Boulder. Like I moved to Boulder and was like I moved to Boulder from LA and I was like moving there because I wanted to like get into trail running. And so I just started going to all the group runs in town and being like, hi, I'm Abby, you want to run? And like just like to go on adventures and yeah, quarters.

SPEAKER_02 45:06

Group run thing seems really fun. Like I've seen all these like videos to like it's sort of like you know, the the running equivalent of what we have in cycling, but like kind of more wholesome in some ways. Cause like I've seen some in like LA where people will like hike out like little like coffee setups into the middle of the woods, and then people like run with their mugs and like so fun. Yeah, it's so cute and wholesome. But then there's like the not cute, not wholesome side where your husband's tricking you into 30 second naps and you're shitting in your pants.

SPEAKER_00 45:42

Sleeping was one eating. Wait, you just said eating, right? It was one of them. Sleeping, eating, peeing, pooping. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Eating and drinking is like pretty much like I'll do sports nutrition for 30 plus hours. Like I can really. Are you carrying everything? Um, so like well, you have to carry anything you need in between AIDS, but then you can there's like both crude aids and uncrude AIDS. So like crude aids, you roll in and like one of your like you know, crew members is there. At UTMB, it's one person. At other races, it can be like a whole crew, like your whole school can be there.

SPEAKER_02 46:13

Um and then you're getting like your new stash of like fresh bottles, new are they able to like, are there rules as to like what people can do for you in those aid stations? Like not the one where they were uh sponging you down.

SPEAKER_00 46:28

I saw that exactly. Yeah. I mean, like the only things I can think you couldn't do would be like pretty odd. Like you couldn't have like an IV or something, you know, like sure.

SPEAKER_02 46:38

But they can like brush your teeth for you and like put your pack on.

SPEAKER_00 46:41

Everyone kind of has like different like things that are kind of like their go-to. What's your thing? Um, I love like I I love to chug like I just chug beverages. Like I'll chug sometimes I'll chug two Cokes or I'll chug a protein shake. And I could never I could never, I would fucking die out.

SPEAKER_03 47:02

She can't even change like a sip of water while she's like sitting down.

SPEAKER_01 47:09

Look at my fucked up tongue. Look at her tongue. Stick your tongue out, Sarah. No, all the way out. Look at how crooked it is.

SPEAKER_02 47:16

Oh wow, it is crooked. Super gross. It like cramps my jaw. Anyway, okay, so Ash Chugger. Don't challenge her for what's the Guinness beer with the the drop of the cream in it before it curls. Carbom. Um so uh sorry, I also like watched I the aid stations are really interesting to me, especially coming from cycling, because like with running, it seems a little bit easier because at least like there's not the risk of crashing. Well, I guess there probably is, but like less so because you have both of your hands available. But the the aid stations at Black Canyon were fast as fuck. Oh yeah. Really? That was great. Like I saw a clip of you or Tara running through, and I was like, holy shit, they just like were throwing their stuff. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:08

And like that's like where the multiple hands become necessary because you'll like you don't even know like whose hands are like what. You're just tunnel vision. Like my first move for like a fast aid, like Black Canyon. It's like I'm undoing my pack as I run in the aid, I'm throwing that pack on the ground, I'm doing a pack swap, so I can just like it's quicker than like getting the new bottles and stuffing everything in my pockets. Someone's putting a pack on me, someone's cooling me, someone's handing me a drink, and then maybe someone's like talking in my ear with like the gap or like whatever, like mantra or something.

SPEAKER_02 48:40

It's so sick. Okay, actually, I have a question. I call them aquamitons, but those little like the water bottles that you like hold in your hands. Have you ever fallen?

SPEAKER_00 48:51

Have you ever fallen and popped them? This is actually funny you bring this up because we have a handheld right now that like we noticed has like a leak and my hustles. Oh yeah, I think I fell on that one.

SPEAKER_01 49:01

I feel like that's a huge popped phone. What are they actually called? What color are they? I love that. I'm gonna use that.

SPEAKER_02 49:13

They're called the handhelds. Oh, labeling. Put me on the marketing team. Damn, that's so fucking crazy. You do a crazy sport. What was your entropy into peeing a pooping? Anna, I have to ask that question because I also have to the pooping thing. I have to know.

SPEAKER_00 49:36

Okay. Sometimes like if it's a fast race while I'm running, like just yeah. Totally. Do you like pulling your shoes into the chamber? Because there's no like sponge element, you know what I mean? Like you're just into your shoes. And then especially with like you're getting sponged off anyway, chances are I'm gonna like it's gonna get washed off of me by the end.

SPEAKER_02 49:56

And so the sponge bath is like quite a thing. Like, that's like you can count on a sponge bath for these races.

SPEAKER_00 50:02

It's mainly for cooling though. So it's like just the aspect of kind of like I mean, like, there's some races where it would be super nice just from the aspect of like sweating and like feeling refreshed, but a lot of times it's just like for cooling the heat and cooling, yeah. Um, and then pooping, like, yeah, you just have to like go like dig a little hole and it's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 50:23

Well, the whole time I thought you were talking about pooping. I thought you were talking about you just poop while you're running and it's like, oh my gosh, that is what are you thinking that you're just running with a log in your fucking pants? I said, Do you pull your shorts to the side? Like I was like, oh, we're just gonna gloss over the pack that she's like pooping in her shorts and then like launching it. I don't know what's happening, and that your team is just sponging the shit off of you. Oh yeah, exactly. Like it's just I don't know, I don't know this sport. I didn't want to make you feel hard, but I was like, oh, that's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 50:54

Like accepting of it, you were though. You were just like, wasn't I? Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 50:58

I was internally I was a little concerning. Okay, all right, that makes me feel a little bit better.

SPEAKER_00 51:06

A little, maybe a little light pee here and there, and then yeah, you're you're making a pit stop and it's a thing, or you can wait until like an aid station.

SPEAKER_02 51:14

I mean, I imagine for like UTMB, those races that are taking you some time to finish, like it's like everyone has to do it at some point if your system is functioning. Or like, I mean, you're also like, I mean, I've never had to go, thank goodness, during Unbound and like any even traca, like I didn't have to go. But because I think your body is just like in a totally different mode. I mean, but we're like the longest bike race I've ever done was like the first year I did traca was 16 hours, but that's like the longest I've ever raced for. So like it wasn't an issue then because you're just kind of eating sugar water anyway. There's like nothing to digest. Is it the same for running?

SPEAKER_00 51:54

Yeah, well, what's interesting is like when it's an overnight race, and even like say some of the races in Europe that are like 100K or 120k, it's not uncommon for them to start at like midnight. So you just start sometimes with a night. But the interesting thing from the pooping perspective is like you're hitting like 7 a.m. or whatever, like you're going morning. Yeah, you really have to. And though, especially when you're doing a wow, that is different. Yeah, and then there's like that that becomes an element too. Starting at midnight is crazy. It's really wild. There's a race that's start, I think it's this coming weekend, and it's one I've done a couple times in the past in the Canary Islands, and it starts at like 11 p.m. or midnight, and it's really fun because like the whole town comes out like and they're like all out drinking and partying, and then like like sending you off, and there's like fireworks, and like Spain like does it well, you know? Um yeah, totally but then it's interesting.

SPEAKER_02 52:45

All run with your wet wipes. Oh, wait, I can't hand them in to you. Abby, that's so crazy. So, Hannah, can I ask other questions now?

SPEAKER_01 52:52

You're free to ask me other questions.

SPEAKER_02 52:54

Um, how did you get into like uh trail? I mean, have you always been a runner?

SPEAKER_00 52:59

Yeah, yeah. I started running when I was a kid, like in fifth grade. I played basketball also, but like, yeah, really just fell in love with running early on, like did like cross country and track and everything, starting in middle school, and just like really fell in love with like the autonomy of being like, I'm gonna go like for a run. And we lived in Vermont at the time, so it was like really fun for me to just be like map my little run and go do it and keep track of my times, or like with the school programs, it's like going for a run with your friends after school, and you like stop at 7-Eleven on the way home and run through the woods. It's just like fun. Um, and then yeah, kept racing through high school and college, ran like at a D3 school and college, but like kind of track or cross country. Cross country. Okay. And then uh stopped my senior year because I was studying art, graphic design, uh connection. Oh my god, cool. No wonder we like you.

SPEAKER_02 53:55

Well, neither of us are using our actually, I don't know if you're using your degree. No, I am not anymore. A true graphic designer.

unknown 54:04

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 54:06

Yeah, but so like my senior year, I had to do like my senior show or whatever. So I took my senior year off running and was just kind of feeling cool, good for you. Burnt out on like the cycle of the programs and the, you know, like yeah, but then I think like a lot of people who like compete through like high school or college, it's like there's this day where that comes where there's no like coach waiting for you for practice, and there's no and I just transition. Yeah. And I just like remember still realizing that like even without that like structure there, I still wanted to go for a run. That's cool. And yeah, like kind of found ways to like make it my own. So I feel like for a while it was just like me realizing, like, oh, I really love to run like after work, like at sunset or at night or whatever, and I would just go out for my runs. And for many years, it was just that of me just like living in LA and running like in the park, and then like started. I was doing like a lot of climbing at the time, so I would go and like spend the weekend in the mountains and like be doing climbing stuff, but then I would come back to the city and like catch up on running. Like I'd be like, Oh, I was off running for a few days because we were in the mountains and now I'm here and need to catch up on marathon training. Because I did like a few marathons, but like in a very recreational and I'm not like sandbagging it. Like I mean, I was like solid, but like it's I was by no means.

SPEAKER_02 55:30

Was that like your the was that like the gateway drug into like some ultras? You were just like dabbled in the marathon, and then it just was like, but you could do more.

SPEAKER_00 55:41

Kind of, but I feel it like for it clicked for me like when I started going on some of these like trips where I'd be like climbing and then realizing kind of like oh, like there's trails within this. So like I could be here climbing and I could be running and hiking, and like then I started like listening to like podcasts and reading books about like the sport, and I was living this very like urban life at the time, but it felt like it really drew me into like going to a place like Colorado where I eventually moved to like be around people who wanted to like get up to this kind of stuff. And I think I know now, like of course now I know like a lot of people in LA who like are into this stuff, but like at the time you're like, you know, like it's like hard to know where to start sometimes when you're like, I want to get into a sport or I want to spend more time outside, and like yeah, so then moved to Colorado and got into ultras. And I think I thought that it was gonna just be like more of a way to frame like hiking and mountain objectives. Like at the start, I was really into like scrambling and climbing and all that kind of stuff, and then it like slowly shifted into more and more like pure racing, where like that background of like track and cross-country and structural training like ended up coming into play. So that was cool.

SPEAKER_02 56:55

I love yeah, I love hearing that. It's it's always so interesting to me. I feel like some of the best athletes are ones like yourself where like your your resume just ends up lending itself to like the sport that you've fallen into, like you just have naturally sort of like gravitated to like of course like climbing has to have helped your trail running. Like that's such a huge part. Like, Hanny, I'll show you some clips of the what they run down. Like it's gnarly, it's so gnarly. Like, I like at first you're like, How are these people crashing and running? But then you're just like like imagine like running down the the most technical hiking, like oh my god, I'm in Hawaii.

SPEAKER_01 57:35

Like the stuff that I scoot down on my butt, but yeah, that's what they're really using my butts for.

SPEAKER_02 57:40

No, no, I I got a pretty clear image of like what just no Abby's like probably like leaping over that stuff.

SPEAKER_00 57:47

I mean, really just kind of butt scooting too. I mean, I will always you know throwing some butt scooting from time to time.

SPEAKER_01 57:53

Something different. It's really my go-to move if I'm like, oh, I'm feeling like it's like a little loose underneath me. I'm just gonna sit. I'm just gonna sit down. I've ripped plenty of pairs of pants just right up the butt crack because I'm like, I think I'll just scoot down this feel safe. I think it's fast.

SPEAKER_02 58:08

It is crazy. Like when we hiked up to watch that part of the hard rock, we like we were like watching people like run down the trail that we hiked up, and I was like, well, I kind of want to try it. It is it like you get like an adrenaline boost. Like it's crazy. Like you get going.

SPEAKER_00 58:25

It's do you have any of your toenails left?

unknown 58:29

Ooh.

SPEAKER_00 58:30

My toenails are a sad story. I think that's why I try to compensate with the Pharaoh.

SPEAKER_02 58:34

She's got real cute fingernails, people, but don't have her toes. You don't have only fans for your feet.

SPEAKER_00 58:40

Um, kind of like blood blisters and like missing, and but is that that's you don't get that at all in cycling, do you? Like you have all your.

SPEAKER_02 58:48

I mean, your feet get pretty smoked, but we're not like I think just because like I'm racing in like carbon, you know, mountain and road shoes, like it's just such a you get these like gnarly, like hot spots, but like we're not putting the like force onto our feet like you guys are. Like it's so it's so crazy to me what you're honestly like what you're able to do without injury, although it does seem like the injury thing, especially with women, is more like I you know, a lot of the pro runners that I follow, it just seems like it's just like a numbers game. I mean, do you feel like there's stuff that you can do to like avoid or like what what do how do you look at injury prevention in your job?

SPEAKER_00 59:35

I mean, there's definitely like the kind of like acute stuff. Like, for example, I took a bad spill in this last race, and it was like I I don't know if you find this in cycling at all, but like us trail runners are always talking about it, like racing, like or can or training, whatever, late luteal phase. Like, we're just like always tripping, late luteal phase. It's so fucked.

SPEAKER_01 59:53

Yeah, yeah. It's a thing, right?

SPEAKER_00 59:54

Like totally coordination.

SPEAKER_01 59:56

Hips on tables constantly, whatever my loop is the number of tables I run into in my daily day. On the way to the kitchen. God, getting to the refrigerator is treacherous. We totally get what you guys are talking about. I'm here too.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:22

And it's really validating. I mean, I'm sorry that you as runners also experience hormones are crazy.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:28

It's really crazy. So there's like definitely like the the trip and fall stuff, which like fortunately I've been good with for a while, but sometimes it just happens, and especially like in racing where you're already like like yeah, or you're like getting gassed early or low on glycogen, you're just like, you know, whatever, like don't think for like a quarter second and something happens. For sure. Um, and then there's like more of the like emphasis I would say our sport has, especially on the women's side of like preventing like red S and you're just bringing it up in the episode.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:00

We have another, we have a guest who's coming on at Veronica. Yeah, yeah, she's gonna come on the pod.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:10

Yeah, think you saw under the appropriate.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:13

No, I'm I'm really I'm really curious because like that's just been such a huge thing. I think well it's good to hear that there's more awareness in running because I imagine it's even harder to not overtrain and keep calories coming in. Because like, what is a normal training week look like for you? Like, are you doing any sort of cross-training? Like, I noticed um Katie, I don't know how to pronounce her last name, SHID. She's it side, yeah. Like she's been riding a bike a ton because she's injured, which is actually how we get a lot of procyclists uh from injury. Um but yeah, I'm just curious, like, how do you structure that with like training? Because you probably have to put in some serious hours for that too.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:56

Totally. I am like notorious for like if I'm on the bike, like you know something is like wrong. Like my friends will like check like check in on me. Yeah. Yeah, no doubt. Do you need to talk? You know. Um, but like I um, yeah, like I I would say like for me, I'm there's some people that like weave in cross-training more regularly, but I would say like I'm generally like able to like you know, tolerate the miles of doing like doing just just running and then um like with rest days like thrown in. So I'd be more likely to take like a full rest day probably than to do like a cross-training thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:34

Um right then because that's when you would do cross-train. Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, are you running really?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:39

Are you running every day? Pretty much, yeah. Like I I'll probably do I'll maybe do like one or two rest days a month, maybe. Or or depending, maybe more. Is that a lot or a little, Sarah?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:52

Uh I do like pretty much every Monday I have uh active recovery. Nice.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:58

Well, I have a lot of recovery, but less rest, if that makes sense. Like full off. Like a zero day. Yeah. But I would say I have probably I would say at least two, maybe three recovery runs a week. How many miles are your recovery runs? That would be like a super easy one-hour run, like conversational, like really mellow, but then I would say like, yeah, then like longer long runs, or it's not uncommon to do like back-to-back long runs where it's like you might yeah, have a like more back-to-back intensity kind of like I'm sure probably a lot of the same training structure that you're doing. So what's a long run for you? Like, are you counting hours or miles? My coach prescribes everything in hours. So, for example, like this build for Black Canyon, we did like higher uh like a greater amount of intensity, but the long runs weren't quite as long. So I was doing a lot of like kind of threshold work, like a good volume of that, but then the long runs were never longer than like three or four hours. Oh, okay. Yeah, but then like going into western states, the intensity will go down, like the duration of intensity will go down, and then the long runs become like up to like eight hours would probably be the longest runs that I would do in a build to a hundred miles. So but like rarely mixing both the super long training runs and the super high intensity, it's kind of like focusing on when are when are when is western?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:28

June, the end of June. Oh, okay. So it's relatively is that your like um goal race? Do you think that's soon? No, just like panic depressing.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:36

I know that doesn't seem soon.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:39

Well, I mean, I guess uh don't even worry about it.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:42

You have so much time to train. In my head, I'm gonna be able to do it. Sarah's really bad at time, don't worry. She has no idea where she is or what time it is.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:52

I guess that is March 1st today.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:53

Wow. Oh yeah, that's so crazy. That's crazy.

unknown 1:04:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:57

Anyway, yeah, um, so that's like one of your big goals for the season.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:02

Yeah. That and then like the um like the 100k at UTNB that I'll do later in the summer is called CCC. So they're all like named different things.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:10

And then so, okay, I want to get to the team stuff. Cause like to me, running sort of feels like uh in some ways similar to like the boom of the gravel and off-road endurance, in that like do is there like a do you have teammates? Um and like are there privateers? Because like everyone sort of seems a little privateer-y in the running space, but maybe I'm totally wrong because like obviously like you have a very official race kit with Adidas. Um like explain to me what that looks like.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:44

I want to first like make sure I completely have like a like a you know rock solid understanding of privateer because I like I don't think anyone does all want to know. Okay, so. Privateer would be like you could be on, you could be a specialized rider, but not on the team, the off-road team, but you could still like receive specialized gear and then you could like you could still say like you want to use these components or this helmet or the have a feed helmet, like whatever. But if you were on like the specialized team, you wouldn't be allowed to be like it's just like yeah, exactly. So we are a privateer then.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:25

Yeah, yeah. I'm a privateer. Um, it just gives you like more opportunity to work with lots of different brands. Okay. And then yeah, yeah. Okay, that's pretty much.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:37

So basically, like, so I um run for Adidas Terex, um, which is like I've been with them since like early 2018. So a little while, you know, and it's been really cool because like they like we've grown as a program so much during that time, and I've grown as an athlete during that time. So it's just been like a really like natural partnership from the beginning for me. Um, and I would say it is closer to like the cycling definition of a team model where like there are more, like we're we're head to toe pretty much for this. Um the other sponsor opportunities would be like devices or nutrition or um yeah, like mainly, mainly those things. Um so, or like poles, like really specific pieces of gear. Um yeah, and so we have a team, like a global team of like gosh, I think there's like 35 or 40 of us. Oh wow. So it's a solid group.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:35

And I mean it's global from global from all over, from you know, Asia and South America and all across Europe and like you know, a lot of is it sort of like Adidas and Nike or like the big ones that like, oh, I guess Hoka and Brooks are big too.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:53

Yeah, it's I would say the big ones, yeah, would probably be like ACG, which is Nike's like outdoor like division. Um, Hoka. Those are pretty crazy suits at the top of the town right now. What? I don't know anything. Tell me about big smash suits.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:12

They have like armpit and like elbow holes, but then they're like a fishnet.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:16

Yeah, elbow holes, like not cropped, but like like a short fish. So weird looking to me.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:23

Elbow or like arm like little elbow pits?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:26

Here and then like skin on skin, they like just cut it out.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:31

It's called radical airflow. I'm now I'm I I shouldn't speak to this too much because this is not the brand that I represent.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:38

Does Adidas do anything?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:40

Like, tell me Adidas is techie talkie for the competitors.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:46

Yeah, that's fair. What is like what is I guess generally speaking, in trail running, like the running shoe has to be like the biggest like thing. What's the trend? What's the like wheel size trend or like tires? Yeah, let's talk about those Tootsie tires.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:08

I would say the hot topic in foot tires right now is definitely like softness of foam. So we have this like high performance foam, and every brand has a slightly different but similar version of a soft foam. And I think like to me, one of the big topics that I'm interested right now in footwear for my sport is like how soft footwear like impacts like our running health and things like that. So like biomechanic shift. And so there's like, you know, like shoes, for example, that I love to race in for the performance benefits and for the like fatigue reducing qualities of like running in super soft foam, but then like the shoes that it's I think it's also important to be like weaving in on the day-to-day training side so that like you're still running and getting your body used to like solid biomechanics. So that's been like a really interesting thing. Yeah. And then you ever doing barefoot running?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:04

No, no, you idiot. I mean, I'm I I read Born to Run. We've all been there. Yeah. And how's that working out for you? Really poorly. You should see me try to walk to the fucking beach. Well, you just see me on a bike, Sarah.

unknown 1:10:25

I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:26

I have some Hannah's captured, I just have soft little bitch feet.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:30

I don't know what's she does. Oh my god, I have a great video of both Sarah and our mom uh trying to walk on the beach, and both of them are like, ow, ow, ow, ow, okay, ow, ow, they're basically on like all fours, just like can't. Yeah, she does have soft little bitch feet.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:47

So, okay, so let me let me see if I understand this correctly. Like, for your racing, like the soft foam thing, are those like the really poofy, like platform-esque looking shoe? Yeah. Um, that's what most people are racing in because it's just like a lot of forgiveness. Like, you're doing 16 plus hours on these puppies. Yeah. And then you're trying to like weave in like what is your training shoe doing for your foot? And like how often are you supplementing that into your week?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:17

I mean, so I guess like I'm I'm using like the soft foam as kind of being the catch-all thing for like a faster racing racing shoe, but the other factor is like they'll have these kind of rocker shoes that will be like our like it makes re for a really smooth strike, yeah, like your heel-to-toe transition is like a lot smoother. And so, like our racing shoe, which is the graphic speed ultra, is like has like a super rockered like football that like is makes for really fast running. And you pair that with soft foam and you know, like an outsole that grips to stuff, and like we have like rods in there that kind of like act as like a there's rods, yeah. There's like there's kind of like a lot of brands are either using plates or rods to like um like carbon, basically.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:01

So carbon plates or wasn't there like some drama about the marathon, like the illegal shoe for like the uh road marathon runners?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:11

Yeah, yeah, it's it's like there's actually um like the covering body.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:15

I'm like I like those. Do they have a turbo boost in them? So you just have to like they're just hovering e-bike version. Yeah, exactly. I want the e-bike version of those shoes. They don't run for you. I want them, I want something to run for me. It's called the car.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:31

Wow, that's so crazy. So those rocker shoes just seem so what does that make it like really hard to descend?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:39

I mean, I find it like really kind of smooths what's underfoot, which is really easy to do.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:45

Well, you are a professional, so like I imagine that's do amateurs like have a hard time with those sort of more technical shoes?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:52

I would say in the show.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:53

Like you can more work.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:55

I think sometimes they really like to me it's like it makes it makes it easier. Um, and I think like where I bring up like the importance of like a training shoe is kind of like it's easy to get like addicted to it, where you're like everything's just faster when you're in like those kind of like great racing shoes. I'm sure there's probably bike equivalents of this kind of thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:15

Well, there's sort of the equivalent in swimming, maybe like you know, in when I was in swim team, uh you would wear like the drag suit in practice that like makes it more resistance, and like you know, I don't know if there I don't know if there's the equivalent in cycling. Like I I swap up the different types of bikes that I ride. Like if I have a really long like training day, I'll often do my gravel bike on the road just because it slows me down so I don't have to find quite as much terrain, but that's pretty much it. Like there's a little more resistance involved, but it's it's different, I guess. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:52

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:53

Hannah, what about you? I literally cannot draw any. Um, well, when I go for dog walks, I wear um shoes that are like a little bit like looser so that like I don't get like mud. And then when I go to the shop, I wear like no, I've got nothing. I've got nothing.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:09

I want to see Hannah in a rocker shoe for me. I would like to hug you would just always be on your toes.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:14

Yes. I just can't imagine. I want to, you know what I actually really want to see is you in a full out sprint and also me in a full out sprint. Like, you know how they have like like uh Sarah, you Sarah. I feel like would look incredible. And I do want to see that. Um mostly it's just a comparison. If all three of us were together right now, we would pause the podcast and go record each of us in a full out sprint. Because I've never really seen you full out sprint. Yes, I've never seen me full out sprint. I don't think I've ever full out sprinted.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:54

I mean, do you have like how often are your races coming down to like a sprint?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:00

That is a good question. I'm trying to think if I've ever had one come down to a sprint.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:05

Like marathons seem like they're they do a lot. Like there's a pack. It's similar to cycling in that, like, there's a pack, someone ups the pace, breaks away, bridges, you know, the that sort of thing. Is that happening in trail?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:18

I would say usually, especially in the longer ultras, there's like enough damage accumulated that like the kind of like what feels like a sprint finish to the runner very much like a sprint finish. Oh my gosh, it's a two-minute gap. And like to people in other sports would be like two minutes sounds like a massive gap, but like when you're really in it, it's like the difference between the person behind you being able to do still do a seven-minute mile versus if you're like kind of slowing down, it's like holy fuck a seven-minute mile over 16 hours. No, not that we're not running that the whole time. I just mean like if people were like kicking at the end of a hundred-mile race, like like what everyone could get their kick down to is kind of like what you feel like you're competing against at the end. Really? Yeah, everyone's just like kind of hobble impressive. Do you have other runners in your family? Um, my mom recreationally runs. And um, yeah, like so growing up, like they like we did like a summer race series, like as a family. Like when you're a turkey trot family for sure. We actually aren't a turkey trot family, but yeah, but my mom like introduced me like when I was a kid to like, hey, like come do a run with me.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:32

And we did like these races and stuff, and then yeah, and then I it is such a cool, it's such a cool sport in that like it is just so accessible. Like, I think that's I mean, since I've lived in Durango, I've noticed the last five years I'll see so, so many more trail runners out there. Like I see people training on, you know, I live on the way to the Colorado Trail on this little road, and I just see so many more runners out there. And it's really, I mean, it's a really cool sport in that, like, I don't know, I just feel like you can travel just with shoes. I think about this a lot when I'm, you know, we brought our bikes to Hawaii, which at this point it is like fairly easy, but like it's just so pure and simple. Like, I know there's a lot of technology that goes into like the professional side of the sport, but like at the end of the day, it's just like I don't know, it's really cool that you like your body can like power you for 16 plus hours like on your feet, like the terrain that you get to see and the speed at which you get I mean, I know you're not like looking around, like I understand what it like the race mode, but like on training runs, like I mean it's kind of nice to go at a slightly slower pace because you get to see a lot more shit.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:50

Oh, totally, yeah. Or I'm all for like a like a good rock sit in like a scenic place in the middle of the run, have gel take it in, you know, like before I descend or whatever. Like it's cool. Yeah, I think it's like it's important to me to like maintain that that like that side of things because I feel like especially as the sport becomes more and more professional, it's easy to just like want to press that gas pedal even more. But like staying true to those like things that were you know why I moved out to Colorado and like got into like signing up for my first races, like that like is I'm remembering how important that is to like keep that around in the way I approach it.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:28

Yeah, is that is the because you mentioned like you started like you were racing professionally from like 2018 when you signed with Adidas, like and that is actually around the same time that I signed with specialized, and I've noticed the sport in gravel has changed like dramatically, and I'm just still like you're just adapting, hanging on, like the women's field has gotten like insanely talented and really competitive. Like, how like what's been the trajectory with uh trail running and ultras and your place in that, and like how do you find like yourself enjoying it still? Because I imagine it's changed a lot for you, you know, either way.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:09

Definitely. I mean, I I would say personally, it's been like this like slowly falling more and more in love with like the racing and competitive, like competing for competing's sake. Um and like I think what started as this kind of like personal curiosity around like how far I can go, or like can I finish a hundred miles, like became like this slow, like um yeah, slow transition into being like a performance athlete, which wasn't what I necessarily like set out to be. Um and I I don't know if you feel this too, like in those years, but like I feel like it's it slowly became this kind of like surprise career where I'm just like let's see how far this can keep going. It's just such a fun, wild ride that I didn't expect. And yeah, like and I I think especially because I like was working as a designer and stuff before that, there was like this feeling of like, okay, I've done the like you know, nine to five desk job, freelance, like etc. kind of stuff. But like it feels kind of like this free space to play. It's not like if I ever reached a point where I felt like you know, I didn't want to make this my job, I feel like I don't feel cornered into it or anything like that. And I think that's uh yeah, so it's been important for me to like be yeah, like choosing that curiosity around racing. But I would say just as a whole, like like you've experienced in cycling, like the the sport has just grown so tremendously. Um, I think yeah, it's so exciting. I feel like really, really lucky to be part of it. And I feel like I am just wanting to like keep growing with it as long as I can. And that feels, yeah, feels so exciting to be a part of. There's so many more opportunities to like be a professional at it than there used to be. Yeah. I think especially for like the women's side of the sport, it's just like so cool to like see so many women able to like make this their full-time job, able to like get to like travel around the world and like you know, like toe the lines of these big races, getting the best fields possible together that we can. It's just like when that front of the field grows, I think that those like opportunities just like flourish in the wake of that. So I think yeah, it's just really exciting.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:25

That's so cool. I have one let because I just noticed the time. Oh my god, we could keep talking right now. Um whoopsie. Um, yeah, like I I love hearing that. It's really, I mean, I feel like I've sort of like kept a little bit of a tab just because it's an interesting sport to me, just like endurance, but in such a like it feels like a lot gnarlier than cycling, honestly, like the mental side. But like, um what do you think? Like you mentioned like the women's, you know, the women's field is growing as well, but like what are what how do I like paraphrase this question? Um like what do you think the sport is up against in the near future? And like, um, yeah, like what's the next big hurdle? Because like gravel's grown really quickly, but like we've hit all these like kind of like ceilings a little bit, and like the industry is changing. I won't won't get into that, but like what is what's happening in the world of like trail running and in your in your scene, and like are those opportunities you know, for racing, for making it your job, like how do you get into it? And like I guess here's a great paraphrase. What are the hurdles? What are the hurdles? But also, like, what are your sorry? Good god. I'm just trying to follow the fucking question. I have no idea where the hurdles done, but also like what would your advice be to like newer runners like who are like wanting to get into the sport and like make it a job? Like, what's your advice on how to do that? Question mark. Done. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:06

I would say like some of the big hurdles that we're facing right now are like around not just like can the sport professionalize, but like the how? Like, what does that actually look like? Like some of the conversations we were having earlier around like pacers, around like series, race series, and qualifications. It's really interesting. And this is maybe a whole nother conversation, but like I feel like we always look to cycling for that stuff. Like, we're like funny, don't look to us. Like all runners, and even this goes for like individuals that are like stepping up their own commitment to like professionalization and to training and all that. Like everyone's like looking at cyclists and how it has like grown over time, like the like the governing bodies around it and the you know, like kind of systems that are in place. I think a lot of things have been the wild west for trail and ultra running. I mean, especially around things like you know, like drug testing and things like that. You know, like we're finally starting to get like some decent like lot of protocols in place, but it has been yeah, like it's been not as easy as like one might think to get a lot of that in place. And so I do like the big races, yeah. And I mean it's definitely improved, you know, like um, yeah, like at races like Western States and UTMB or like a lot of the like big era viper races of which like Black Canyon is part of, like a lot of bigger races like this are implementing it, but we have like no out-of-competition testing, like certain countries do has out of competition out of competition testing.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:40

So there's like well, Gabriel doesn't really yet like we will get tested in um yeah, if you're part of the UCI, like if you're racing like World Cups and other UCI sanctioned races and you're on their like you are getting tested for those things, um, like depending on what other circuits you're in. Uh, but then like if you're just strictly doing lifetime grand pre races, you're not doing you're not getting any out-of-season or like out-of-race testing. Um, but you are getting tested during the season. Interesting. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But anyway, go on. Okay, so those are the hurdles. Hannah?

SPEAKER_01 1:25:17

I no, I'm that's right. Continue. I just have a question when like for wrap-up. Um, and you just let me know when you guys are done talking sports. Um and I would like to ask this question. But continue. Talk amongst yourselves.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:33

Okay, so that's that is a serious hurdle. I mean, yeah, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:38

Yeah. Um, and then I think like your next question, Sarah, was about like kind of just like the next generation.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:44

And then like I'm just I'm glaring at Hannah because I'm like, I was just thinking through the questions every whole time. I just had so many.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:54

I was super. Do you have ADHD? Do you know what that feels like? No, but I can see it on clear display. Sorry, okay, whatever the next question was. Um okay. Fuck your hand.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:15

I would say for like getting like for like advice to new or young professionals, I think would be um like I think that there's a huge opportunity in the sport around storytelling, um, especially like in the pursuit of success. I think it's easy to think as a young person in the sport that like, you know, like wins and podiums are like the way there. But I think there's also um a lot of opportunity more than ever around like storytelling, and even if you're, you know, even if you're failing at your goal, like not being afraid to talk about it and tell about it. That's such a good yeah. It's just like a cool time in the sport in that way. And I guess I don't even necessarily mean like in the full on, like run influencer way. I think like pursuing a professional journey at the sport, and if you're like open to talking about like those highs and lows along the way, there's a lot of opportunity there, even though like the instinct is to want to be like, no, everything's perfect and I only win. It's like that's not the reality for most athletes.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:16

So yeah, totally. Well, I think, yeah, that's such good advice.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:20

It just goes back to the like authenticity of you know, and and for people who aren't necessarily trying to be a professional in a sport, but like so maybe they're like getting into running and they see somebody who is a professional and is actually talking about all of the different highs and lows, and it feels more um, yeah, authentic and and more relatable. And I feel like that's a great advice.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:40

Yeah, and there's just so many, I guess that's the cool thing, a parallel that I see between um trail running, ultra running, and just kind of the wild west of the sport that you're in and the wild west of the sport that I'm in. And I feel like sort of the part of the reason I've had success as a professor. Professional in the space is that there's a there's a lot of different paths to the top of that, you know, that triangle. And it's not just like one peak either. Like there's a lot of other people, but because we're both in like a participatory sport. Like you can have people who sign up. Well, maybe not for Western, but like UTMB. But like it's sort of like it's cool because like people want to follow a lot of different types of people, not just like the ones that like show up and win everything and like their robot athlete mode. Like they're impressive too for some people and inspiring for those people. But there's a lot of other little spaces to fill and lots of different ways to do it. I think that's what's cool about endurance because it's so gnarly, especially the things that you do. Like there that that is it's seriously like fucked up gnarly when you're yeah, she doesn't have toenails, she has blood blisters instead of toenails.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:56

She's painting her blood blisters putting gel on those things.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:03

We had a wedding this fall, and my husband was like, I think you should just get like burgundy toenail polish, you know, for like because I was like, I should get a pedicure, and he's like, just get it like the colour of a blood blister.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:13

And I think that's in right now, and it's like recommend a clothes to mule. A mule, a mule. Have you seen a dance go?

SPEAKER_02 1:29:37

I hear they're great for your feet. Oh my god, I what Gazara. Have you seen those videos of people who've put acrylics on their toenails? Wait, is that a thing? I think it's a joke, but they're really funny. You should have to do that. You have to just glue it to your skin.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:55

I want to ask you an absolute project for that pork if I were to go in and be like, I think you would want to do that yourself.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:03

Yeah, that's a DIY thing. Or you know those little jewels that like people get for their cats' buttholes? No. Oh man. Well, Hannah's like, you don't? I'm like, yeah, of course. Everyone knows. It's like a little like fishing line that you like wrap around their tail and then a jewel like sets and covers it. Dangles over their buttholes so you don't have to see their little buttholes.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:25

Privacy shield.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:26

Yeah, it's like a little privacy, privacy shield for your toenails. Wow. Oh, I can't see for your butthole. You just hook it under your tail.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:38

Just have your butthole in mind.

unknown 1:30:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:42

No, I just I'm so curious. Um, like when you're not running, like what kind of media or what's like something that you've been like, like a show you've been watching, a movie, uh like a book you've been reading. Like what what are you what are you into right now?

SPEAKER_00 1:30:55

Oh, that's we'll let you go. Um that's a great question. I don't, I just ran. Like, I feel like I'm supposed to have ones that are like relevant to like whatever my sport or something, but they're no, no, no. I'm trying to go away from your sport. I love your guys' like cultural banter, by the way. Because I feel like at the episodes, I'm like, these are the things I've been thinking about this week. Like, tell me the kind of reality TV shit you watch. I don't know if this is considered reality TV, but I'm going for like a really like big Shark Tank phase. Like, I'm reality TV.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:29

I love Shark Tank.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:31

Yeah, like I can't stop with Shark Tank. What are we investing in? What are we into? Yeah, what's like the product that we need to know about? I mean the jewel.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:45

Seeking$20,000 for a 20% stake in cat bejewelings. Cat assholes. Um on runs, I listen to Talking Over You a lot. Um Thank you. I listen to Armchair Expert. I listen I especially love Armchair Anonymous episodes for like the like you know, the fun bantery stories. Um yeah, I like listen like listening to banter, like when I'm running. Me too.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:11

Have you dabbled in Giggly Squad yet? No. What's up? Oh my god. Oh honestly, the inspiration behind this podcast. I just I have, yeah, my when I like yeah, truly. I mean, uh I used to be embarrassed telling people about it, but it's honestly like you're the same way. Like we're doing like long training weeks. Like that's it's there's some really boring stuff in there. And you know what? Sometimes I really like riding alone. Well, or riding with Dylan and listening to my podcast. I've learned over the years that I just pop on the the headphones. Um Giggly Squad is great. Yeah, there it has nothing to do with cycling um whatsoever or sport at all. Like when they talk about skiing, it's actually hysterical. And like one of the one of the girls talks about playing tennis a lot, but that's pretty much it.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:05

The other banter one I just discovered recently was Ride with Benito Skinner and yes, yes, 100% Mary Mary J.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:15

Blige. No, what's her name?

SPEAKER_00 1:33:16

Um Barone. Mary Kate? No. Mary Kate, it's a Mary something. Really funny for her.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:24

Ride? Yeah. Okay. I love the two. I love him. Uh is the show that he just had a uh he both of them. The show, what is it called? It's like a like a hmm.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:36

Oh geez. I got my phone. It wasn't like a high school, it was like a high school or college?

SPEAKER_01 1:33:42

Insecure? Was it called Insecure? Yeah, yeah. That sounds right. Oh my god, that you know very much information about that. Welcome to the podcast. You fit in perfectly. No, no, Insecure is a different show, but it's also so good. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:55

Is it the I Love LA one? No.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:58

I could I just recently that one. I yeah, I need to re-watch it because I watched it a couple weeks ago when I had the flu. Okay. Cranked through all of it. And well, you probably are you feel. I imagine it's really funny to watch it like having lived in LA, but all my LA friends, like one of them overcompensating.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:18

It's called over overcompensating.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:20

Insecure, overcompensating. Also, insecure is great. It's with Issa Rae, and that's an incredible show to watch.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:26

Are we talking shows or black? That's a show.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:28

That's a show on I think HBO.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:29

Overcompensating is also HBO sort of seems like the platform these days. Between the Pit and I Love LA, overcompensating is on uh Prime. Okay. Okay, thank you, Hannah.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:43

Sorry, that's the only thing I can contribute here. It's really all I've got. Let me have it.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:49

Yeah, we really lost Hannah after the poo-poo pee-pee talk. You guys have inspired me to start on um below deck, though. That was like I was thinking recently.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:58

Yeah, Hannah was just telling me about below deck. Okay, I'll give it a go on the plane.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:02

Yeah, I would start with below because there's so many options. Below deck sailing, the sailing yacht one. That's a good one. And start from the beginning. Okay. Because it because there's some repeat of you're so genuine.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:16

Okay, taking notes.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:17

I have a flight this week too, so I'm like, this is great. I am genuinely taking notes, and we'll did you say you have a flight this week?

SPEAKER_00 1:35:24

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:24

Great. Also, if you're on United, sir, and I already talked about this. There are two different seasons, the first three episodes. One of them is good, one of them isn't good, and I can't remember. Um try to remember, Abby.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:36

We'll hop on a we'll hop on a group text after this. We'll connect about what's it called? Below deck. Okay. Yeah, I I'm so curious your thoughts about below deck. Okay, perfect. Also, just wrapping this up, Abby. When is your next race and how do people follow you?

SPEAKER_00 1:35:52

I think my next race will be in June at the uh at Western States 100. So in a June. Oh, fabulous. Might do something small between now and then, but small, just like 200 miles. Just a quick 27 hours. Like small, like maybe a 50k for me. It's like small.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:12

Small is five miles just so far. No, I'm sorry. Small is two miles. Honestly, small is one. Medium is two.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:26

Um, okay, so we will all be cheering you on um for that. And then what's the best way for people to follow you and your adventures?

SPEAKER_00 1:36:34

Probably, I feel like I share the most on Instagram. My thing is um abby.k.hall, Abby A B B Y. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:41

Yay, thank you so much so much. Thank you guys. Abby was so awesome. You were like the perfect token, Russell. We're gonna we'll have to have you back on and we can talk through uh toenail updates, pooping updates. We we need to know what another thing they're getting into.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:59

I can feel like when you when they like pipe in an analyst from something, I can be like pop in for a 30-second like run analyst kind of thing. I'm happy to take on those kind of gigs anytime. Okay, fabulous. We're gonna need that.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:11

Yeah, yeah. Thank you so yeah, you're officially uh our first, potentially only runner on the podcast.