The Cocodona, swamping, and ageing in cycling

This week on the show, Sarah brings an unprecedented level of organisation to discuss the Cocodona 250 (an ultra running event in which a woman won both the men’s and women’s fields), the drama at the Traka 560, and a new non-cycling trend known as swamping. Hannah is busy thinking about how to make Sarah’s baby shower as uncomfortable for the older attendees as possible and has some thoughts on traditional baby shower activities. Plus, they discuss the challenges of ageing as a professional cyclist and share some book recommendations. 

You can find audiobooks through Hannah’s shop, Hand in Hand, here.

Instagram: @talking.over.you

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Welcome to Talking Over You with Sarah Sturm and Hannah Sturm. Here we go. If you're gonna be an asshole, be funny. At least be funny. I thought it was a man coon. We need to have like a real athlete on here. It makes me consider different careers every time I have to pee in my chamois. Wow, big weekend. Your outfit. Did you just work? No, it's my stomach. Was it really?

unknown 0:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:32

Is it your baby? It's a baby farting. He needs burpee. No, it really was. Really? What? I look like a picnic table. I was just gonna say you look like a picnic. I know I went out. Gingham is hard to pull off. I feel like you're doing it. You just called me a picnic table. Well, I mean I had this other outfit. I just said you look like you're attending a picnic. You are the picnic. Okay, fine, the picnic table. I had this other one from my my newly bought. They really should be a sponsor of this podcast. That would have been great. Um, but it was like a gingham like onesie thing that it's like it looks like a dress. It's basically a dress, but it's actually a onesie. But anyway, I was wearing it and it's not a matern none of these are maternity clothes, mind you. That one seems like it is. It's not, it's actually not, which is crazy. That was crazy. But I walked out and Dylan was like, you look like the picnic table and the watermelon. Like the watermelon is under the picnic table. Yeah, under the picnic table, ate the watermelon. Speaking of watermelon, how many watermelon have you had in the past four days? Three full watermelons, three full watermelons. We went camping and uh just car camping, but I was like in bed and I could see I could see you sitting at the table uh in your little camp chair, and you had the bowl that had all the like chopped-up watermelon in it, and I have this video of you just slurping the watermelon juice out of this huge bowl. I was honestly really dehydrated. And how are you now? Still dehydrated. Yeah, I know. Take a water break, and that's gonna make me feel sick. Wow, you're fun. I think I've de-influenced people to get pregnant. Uh, I don't think so. I had well, maybe people who listen to the podcast, but people who see your Instagram are like, I had a friend's podcast. Nothing she can't do. Oh no, these people know me from through Instagram, and they were like, I feel like you've de-influenced people. Really? Yeah, that's funny. Um, but shout out to my friend Ruth, who is pregnant, um, and just actually truly having like a really hellacious pregnancy. Really? Yeah. Like she just posted this morning. She's erased the Grand Prix, Ruth Edwards. This one's for you. Delilah. Uh she just posted that I think she's I mean, baby's about due, actually. But um about every week of her pregnancy, she's thrown up every single week of her pregnancy, with the the least amount being twice a week. Whoa. Woof, that really puts things into perspective. Yeah, totally. So like, which I feel like she really, like when we were in the first trimester, I was like, whoa, she's having a really brutal first trimester, but it just really it did improve for her after that, but it just didn't get much better. Which just sucks. Yeah. But she I mean, she's an incredible athlete and incredible person, and she was like, I would do it all over again for this baby, which I guess I haven't met the baby yet. So, like, how do you know? Baby could suck.

SPEAKER_02 3:47

How do you know? You may get a dud.

SPEAKER_01 3:51

Um, I actually do have a lot of stuff on my list of things. I mean, it's very sport heavy because there was a lot. Well, I asked you, do you have non-sport? Yeah, I mean, I always have non-sport. Well, I mean, we can recap our weekend that we've we've been spending time together already. Um, we had our annual Mother's Day fight. We did have our annual Mother's Day fight. Luckily, mom wasn't there. I told her about it. I wanted to call her and be like, Sarah's being fucking insane right now. Oh, I called her and I was like, Hannah's being a crazy bitch. What? I almost called her and I was like, it's Mother's Day, journal about it instead. So I did, and then you called me back. I was in the middle of journaling about how you want to request it. No, we just had like a hard time making plans because it was like we we make plans so differently, right? Where it's like I make plans and then I stick to them. And you I don't really feel like we need to go back and we we did argue, but then we got it together, and then we and then we camped. And it was great. Yeah, it was fun. And poor Dylan had a really tough one.

unknown 4:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

Dylan had just like a series of unfortunate events happened. I mean, both I would say poor me also. Because you had to deal with well, not just I mean, it just sucks to like the bike thing sucked. That was a bummer. Um but then the camper thing, I was like, well, that's our camper that's filling with water. Yeah, just logistics are challenging. Yeah, I just like these equipment heavy things like gear, and just like I get the appeal of like these fancy vans and campers, and like but when they have all the bells and whistles, it really like so much can go wrong, which is like that's why we did the the bus build out how it is, which is extremely simple. Like, I didn't want to mess with like pulling a bed, like making a bed every night, you know. Like when you get in, you're just stuck. I mean, that seems like the least of the issues, like running water through it and yeah, the water having things. I mean, there are things where it's like, okay, if everything is working correctly, it's pretty cool because then you have like hot water and you can like wash dishes and stuff. But at the same time, Jeff and I just sleep in his mini van and we just hang our little string lights and yeah. I mean, I've done that too. Yeah, and we're great. Dylan and I, I mean minus the sharing a twin-size mattress. That is that is tight. I know. I barely even like had to touch Dylan last night. We had a king. I was kind of like, uh, we never cuddle. This is kind of nice for the first four minutes, and then I was like, okay, it's not nice. I don't love it as much. But we're just used to it. I just love a good camp. You know, camp. That was a great camp. Yeah. Site. Yeah. Yeah. We were next to a waterfall. It was really lovely. We live in a cool place um that has some downsides, but a plus is that in 20 minutes we can drive to this really cool spot. And then we got to eat funfetti cake, which is my favorite part of the and I was mostly just really excited about her birthday. There's nothing better. Truly, there's nothing better for me. I mean, all of us were excited to. I know, and that made it even better. I wished you guys hated a little bit more so that there was more for me to eat. We could have gotten a bigger cake. No, it was the right amount because you really shouldn't have more than that. At that point, it's you just don't feel well after. No. But you can really, I mean, I will power through. I will persevere. I will. And then we got to see a fox, and the dogs in the backseat were just going. Oh my god. It was a great time. Uh yeah, it was lovely. I uh went to strength class yesterday uh for the nope, second time and uh back from Traka, but it was leg day, and we did um a lot of things with the legs, and my legs were so sore by the end of the night, and I went out to pee one last time before I got into the camper because it's I mean it's a hike to get in and out of that thing. So I was like, God, this is gonna be really brutal to pee a thing. And I peed 1,000 times on our hike. You really did literal hike, uh, and my legs were. Literal hike. Oh. And my legs were so sore that I just I basically peed standing up. And I really can't squat anymore because I just have this watermelon in the way. Literal watermelon. Okay. Um, well, I the biggest thing that I was really interested to talk about was do you know what the Cocodona 250 is? I do now. I saw a lot of stuff about it because of the winner. Yeah, congrats to Rachel Ntrekken. Entrekken? E-N-T-R-E-K-I-N. Great. So the coca for those who don't know, Cocodona is a 200 donut. Coconut donut, uh, 250-mile running race from point A to point B. Couldn't remember to look at the room. Races often are. Uh well, no, usually it's like start finish.

unknown 9:04

We think it loop.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

I was thinking loop and lollipop. I thought you said that on purpose. Your eyes got really pink. I said lollipoop.

SPEAKER_02 9:34

Oh god.

SPEAKER_01 9:35

Okay, sorry, I'm lollipop. Okay, so it's point A to point B. Um and they run basically through through Arizona. Um, it looks really pretty. It is like mostly on trail and road. Yeah, it looks so gnarly. I just alright. I know that I have to race 200 miles for my job. On a bike. On a bicycle. Um, which I actually like. I'm gonna preface everything I say about the like burliness and like should people be doing this? With I don't actually think people should be racing 200 miles on a bike either in one go. Like I just you have things to say about whether or not people should be Well, I'll get there. Okay, we'll we'll go through the positives first. Um I do well, I just I have questions. Do you a compliment sandwich? Yeah, it's gonna be like an open-faced sandwich. We'll start with the compliment and then end with a question. Okay, okay. So Rachel set the overall rec she won the whole race. Men's and women's. Men's and women's. She broke her own record. This was her third time doing this race, uh-huh. Which is crazy that she's done this thing three times. Consecutively?

SPEAKER_00 10:48

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 10:48

Wow. Um, and actually, I don't know that for sure. You said it with confidence. I know. Um, but I was watching so before she won, I'm watching these clips of her, and I'm like, is thisn't I I had to look up if there were other distances and which distance she was running because she looked fresh, fine, fresh, fresh. Okay, that was so it was crazy. So I don't have anything to say, like I I didn't do any research into anything because I'm like, that's your job, but I saw that she won for like overall finisher, and I was like, oh, incredible. And then I saw like later the second place finisher who is a man, and so she goes, she's crossing the finish line and she is like celebrating she yeah, she like trotted like she just like picked up her pace and was like running through this the guy who it looked fresh. The guy who got second place, not not fresh, unfresh, looked absolutely destroyed. Like he ran 200. Like he ran 250. I actually have to give this dude some props too. Like he's he's really taken second place like a champ. Um well, I mean, what do you mean? No, I mean like he could have had a bad attitude about the whole thing. Losing to a girl? Yeah, totally. Really? You'd think that could I'm just saying he could have. That'd be a really bad look. I've seen bad looks on a lot of men, athletes. Well, women too.

unknown 12:10

Men.

SPEAKER_01 12:11

But anyway, um, I mean, a good job to him as well. I didn't write his full name down, but I do remember it was Killian something, not Killian Journey, who's famous. Um okay, so she finished. I did write this down for people who do care. And it's so funny, I don't care. I literally never look up any biking numbers at all, but I was like kind of interested. How long do you think it took her to do 250 miles on her feet? I mean a cut like a couple days. Right? Yeah. Like 50 hours? That's a really good guess. Thank you. Uh 56 hours nine minutes, 48 seconds. I had to figure out what came after hours. Well, it's different if you're in Europe, you know, like totally decades. Yeah. 56 hours. And then he came in at 57 hours. So she beat him by 28 minutes. Wow, which is like not and she beat her old time by three hours, and she beat the record. Ooh, sorry, I can't remember what the record. I didn't look that up. So she averaged a 13.28 mile pace. And that's including eating, peeing, pooping, sleeping, collapsed time, all of it. Guess how many times she slept? Three times? Like short. I was just thinking like short little sense. Not at all. No, I mean basically not. Well in in 56 hours, she slept twice. She took two like seven-minute naps. Ugh. That's so insane. The whole thing is so crazy to me. I mean, I've I've followed Courtney Dualter. Courtney DeWalter, famous ultra runner. She got second. Um, and she's sort of like second place woman, female. Got it. Uh overall, I think she got fourth or fifth. Okay. But she has also done a similar her like her breakout run was a 200-mile run in Moab, and she beat everyone. Like, I think she must have set the course record. I wonder, like, if this is a thing specific to well, women, but like to running or just like really long distances. I think really long distances. The mental aspect of it. I think cycling is gonna get there. You think? I do. Yeah. I think the distances, well, look at Lael. Yeah. Um, I mean, she's going for the round the well, the round the world record is really we could have a whole episode on that. We should have her on. Um, but I was learning because we were at the Rafa camp together, um, Lael and her wife Rue were there, and it's just as much a race for Rue uh as it is for Lael, because like the logistics and like planning around an event like that. It's not even it's not an event, it's like an FKT, I guess. But the clock's just known time. The clock starts when they are like, okay, we're going for it, and it doesn't stop until they get to like their determined endpoint. But it's so much about planning. Like you can do these different anyway. Um, the so Lael won it won the women's record, set the new women's record last year. For what? For the round the world. She's doing it again, she's doing it again because she wants to go for the overall. Oh, how long did it take her? Just give me ask. Guess it. Oh, months. Months. Okay. Yeah. Whoa. But but the thing is, like, I mean, I think she was averaging 250 miles a day of riding. Like it was crazy. So she really couldn't ride that much faster, but they just didn't have the same support. Like, or whatever. Like, um, you just have to have these like huge crews, and they were telling us that the guy who has the record, I think he had like a million dollar budget for his team. So I think she Layle definitely has some like really great sponsors on board this year. Okay. To because they have to like pay people like full-time salaries to like you know, travel around in like mechanic and logistic and drive and all the things. Whoa. But I do so when does that start? Uh I think in like a month. Oh, cool. That'll be fun to yeah. Like last year, Lael raced the uh Unbound XL and then basically did it after that started. But I what I was gonna say is like that one's a tough one because it's not like it's just like like they're they have to fly to a couple, you know, country as you do, you have to fly across the ocean. So it's not like really like a a full effort, but like continental divide. Um, people race that. Uh and I do think that like for these really long efforts, women are just getting faster, and we're good at endurance. I mean, yeah, you think about like childbirth. Yeah, I do think about childbirth, in fact. Yeah, I'll let you know. Which, okay, I have been, you know, we like are planning your I keep wanting to call it a bachelorette party. It's kind of it's kind of like that. Um, you're like you guys are bachelorettes and before you have a baby and then you're and then you're no longer people bachelorettes, but and then you're no longer people. So we've been thinking about your um batch nope, uh baby shower and like looking at like games and stuff to play. Uh well, and just like looking on the internet is so funny because it's either like really wholesome, like too wholesome, you know, where it's like eh, it's a little gaggy, um, or it's like eating melted chocolate out of a diaper and it's like too gross. I've gone to one that we did that. Right. It was gross. So I have an idea. And I Oh, this is the idea that you have my idea. Okay, but I'm in the middle of my Coca-Dona thing. And we'll get to it. Okay. Um, but we gotta have a little bit of a palette cleanser because I feel like we've got a lot coming up. Okay, so my idea for your baby shower is to play cornhole. But what I'd like to do is decorate the hole so that it looks like a big vulva, and then have like um like legs made out of uh like stuffed like tights or like pantyhose, and then just like have the beanbags be like babies, but call it crown hole. Like you're crowning. What do you think? Will Dylan's mom hate it so much? Perfect. Great, that's what I thought. That's a great idea. I think it's gonna, I think it's gonna be a real well. The invites, I think people know what they're getting into. I had a baby on the grill and I said, baby BBQ, we're not grilling babies, we're grilling food. Which didn't yeah. People were confused by the all genders, or you were confused by the all genders welcome. Well, I didn't know what it meant, like it seemed like it was like a reveal, like it I didn't know that you what it meant, but then I understood afterward that you're like, oh, everyone can come because it's normally just like a normally just women. I don't understand why it's so like because men don't want to have to do with the birth. Well, there are a lot of different like types of parties that people have. Why at baby showers is it like centered around games? Like, where did that come from? That they're like, oh cool, this woman like is waddling around and play games and like measure how big she's gotten. That's like a big one, is like people taking a string around and like they like they measure out a string and say, I bet this is how big she is. And then they go through and like everyone tests their string. I was like, Sarah would fucking hate that. I would say every woman would could you imagine? No, like oh, I thought you were so much bigger. Oh, please everyone's played in call in. Yeah, what are some other like I want to know the cringiest baby shower you've done? They're gone too. It might be crown hole. I just I really want to decorate and make it look like a big old vulva. I think it's great. I think it'll be good. I think I'm gonna I well I know I'm gonna do it. I just have to love it. Cornhole set. But yeah, I'm thinking of some other little I mean, a lot of it is like decorating onesies and decorating like blocks and stuff. And I just I mean, people could decorate onesies, that's cute. But then you have a bunch of onesies that are poorly decorated. Yeah, sure. They they outgrow them so quickly. There are there are a lot of different yeah, we can I'll I'll throw some ideas out there. I just was like, we don't have to plan it on the podcast. I just know there's so many things. Well, it's like bachelor's. That's all themed. Like, why is it themed? I don't know. Nothing about ours will be themed. No. I just would like to see people and not have to go to the show. That's why I was like, I don't want to like stop the party to be like, okay, game time. No, no, no. We're gonna all there's other the some of the or we're all gonna like chug apple juice out of a baby bottle. We're gonna blindfold each other. I don't think I've ever held a baby bottle. What? I've never held a baby bottle. I've never fed holding a baby baby bottle pop. Baby bottle pop. Baby bottle pop. And there was like tickets to bit and bit okay, so you couldn't. That's really all I had. I love that. It's very creative. A plus. And if it pisses off the elders, then I think it's even better. Then those elders are not welcome. Um, okay, so then Courtney got second. This podcast is insane. Okay. If you don't worry, if you listen to our podcast and you're like, Am I ADHD? No, you're not. Could you imagine if this is like your first time listening to the podcast and you're like, whoa, it's really what do they even talk about? Well, this is what happens if we've hung out for a weekend. It's exactly like it is if we haven't. Yeah, totally. Okay, back to Kokodoga. We had a little baby shower brief uh briefing. What happened to your brain? I don't know it. It went away. Um in sixty so like, let's see. So Rachel got 57 hours. Courtney was 61 hours. And then Megan, third place, was 63 hours. So they were all fairly close, like within several hours of each other. And then Heather, um Jackson, who is a pretty incredible multi-sport athlete at this point in her career. She was an Iron Man athlete for a bajillion years. And sorry, Heather, I don't know. I I'm just assuming you won a bunch of stuff because she I like that you're talking to her like she's listening to our podcast. Yeah, she's definitely not. Well, she might. But no, I've I've raced with her. So then she like kind of made she like retired from that and then came into gravel, which is when I met her. So I got to race with her, and everyone's like, there's a famous triathlete. And I was like, ah, the girl who's my size. This is great. And she's uh like Heather's fabulous. Like she's awesome to race with, she's really happy, she's a very talented person, but she's not like so like cutthroat and like she's just really good. Um, and she's just really good at this long shit. Like, she won uh Unbound. I couldn't remember the name of Unbound. I remembered it's the old name of Unbound. That baby. Uh that darn baby last year. She won the XL like handily, and then she has she's also a she like came onto the trail running anyway. It's just really impressive that she can like do both of these things. Yes. Um, and she got fourth, but there at one point Heather was in a solid second place. Like she and Courtney were running together, they both took a wrong turn and went five miles off the course. Could you imagine doing an extra fucking five miles? Swaning? No. No, that's that's my long run. That's that is also my long run. Yeah, anyway, so she but I read her and it sounds like she was at the last aid station, which is like five miles from the finish, which is crazy that there's an aid station there, but she like sl had to like sleep there because she was like hallucinating really badly and couldn't get to the finish line. So I think that that's yeah, because she oh no, she was there for a while. So she got fourth by quite a bit, actually. Um she finished with 69 hours, 36 minutes, and 34 seconds. Anyway, uh what I wanted to talk about is I saw a clip of the last place finisher. So there were there were 268 people that finished this thing. Crazy. Which is so crazy. And I just saw a clip on social media about of this this guy finishing, and it was it was really scary, actually. He was bent over. I saw it. You did. I did. Okay, so he's like, for those of you who haven't seen it, he's there's like a bajillion people on the sidelines, everyone's cheering for him. He is really close, and it would be s it would be really emotional to watch if it weren't so scary looking. You're like, why is this person still running? Like, how did he wasn't? He was people were like holding his head up. He was keeled over to like his left side, and like he had this weird lean going, and his legs weren't really moving, and people were just holding him and basically pushing him forward. Yeah. Which I talked to Maggie, my friend, who's was there and she's an ultra runner and has also set overall course records before in her career. Uh-huh. And she was like, it's a thing that happens sometimes. She was like, I don't know why, but like runners get this like weird lean thing. Um, but yeah, it just looked, I told her, I was like, it kind of freaked me out. And I was like, should people should he have finished? How long did it take him? I looked up his time. 125 hours? How many days is that? Uh-oh. And one minute and 24 seconds. That's like five days. And it was an unofficial finish. So I'm assuming he didn't make one of the cutoffs. But they still listed him. Five days? Yeah. So what's your what's your hot take? I think you don't think people should do it. Because also, and this is not the first time people die at these events. Die at these events. Um, there was a death. That's what I was gonna say. Yeah. People do, and it's really scary. Like there's um men and women uh uh the most common I think is heart issues. Um, and I I don't they're they're which is fair, like they don't need to release any of this information. Um, and it's not even like the death thing that I'm like, should people be doing this? I'm just like in general, like, is there a better way to like showcase these at like and challenge people, you know? That doesn't end up. Are you talking about professionals? Are you talking about jump? In general, all of it.

SPEAKER_02 26:48

Hmm.

SPEAKER_01 26:48

Like we're all people. Yeah, but you like to push it, like you're part of the but the thing is if the if the mileage gets and I'm I'm just I'm not saying I know the answer, I'm just questioning like do is it safe? Like, should amateurs be able to do this? Because amateurs do can sign up for the 250. You don't have to like meet any kind of criteria. I don't know. I don't know. But I I mean if they did, I'm sure this person did. Yeah. And then he still ended up like that. And I've I've watched the hard rock, like I've seen I've seen people who aren't making the the cutoff times, which which that's why they have the cutoff times. Like I get it. Right. Um, which is cool that you know Mid South doesn't do that and they have the DFL party, but that's a hundred miles. And right anyway, I I don't know. I just am like I think just seeing that clip and like watch like what happened in his body, but also it's the same thing of like autonomy, and people get to make decisions about what they do with their own bodies, and if they want to suffer like that, I guess go go for it, you know. Like it is in a well there's there's been a lot of hard problems, and they you know choose to do this thing and it's so scary though. That's everyone really does get to as long as it isn't like endangering other people around them. Yeah, I agree. I agree with that. Yeah, I think it just was like but like could he make a sound decision? I mean, these people that are finishing this thing like are not sound in the mind. Like, I'm not after I'm not make making decisions well, um, which is why I'm a really big advocate of having bike races on closed courses because we're in one, you're in race mode. I mean, with cycling it's different because you're moving a lot faster.

SPEAKER_00 28:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:31

Um, but also like you're in race mode, you're not thinking necessarily about cars. Um and and then at the end of the races, you're you're tired. Like you every calorie that you know is being put into your body is used to like keep your body moving forward and your reaction times are slower. Like Yeah, I mean, if you're not sleeping, like all of the things and then these people aren't sleeping, yeah. And then the ultra stuff, I'm also worried about that, you know, because those courses certainly aren't marked, but they're definitely not sleeping. Well, I think it goes towards like, I mean, is it healthy to do these? No, to even to do what you guys are doing. No, it's not healthy, but it is like the thing that you No, I've always said like being a professional athlete isn't it's not a it's not a career of health. There are a lot of unhealthy things that people choose to do. Yeah. And it's, you know, everyone gets to make those choices. Yeah, no, I agree. It just but if it weren't if this weren't a race, if it weren't out in the public, would that guy have run 250 miles? I bet not. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, even watching people like finish marathons, it's kind of the same thing. Yeah. Yeah. Where it's like, oh, this is it's not it's not real it really isn't the like the the person who passed away, like, which is really tragic. During the Kokodonna. Did somebody die? Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. Yeah. Did they say anything about it? They did. They they said like there was there was consideration of canceling the event out of respect. Oh really? Yeah, but I mean they didn't, but yeah. It was very sad. Yeah, I mean, I it's just there are a lot of different ways to be unhealthy, and this is one of them. True, honestly. I mean, truly cycling is no different, and like I'm not making that argument at all. Because I don't I couldn't stress it enough. Like, I really like I mean, people have questioned that with gra like I've questioned that with like gravel. I'm like, should my heart be in zone three for 10 plus hours? Like, probably not. Is that where it is? Yeah, for 10 plus hours? Yeah, most of my gosh, is there any research around like that's what I'm talking about? Okay, like all of this type of racing is really new. I mean, it's not new, but it is new in the sense of like the competitiveness. Yeah, like people are pushing it super super. I mean, look at the just the women's Peloton and gravel, like this year. I mean, maybe it's because I'm sidelined and I can like see it, but it just seems I know every single year it's the the ante is upped. The speeds are getting and the men's as well. Like it since I started racing gravel, it's crazy to be in a sport that has changed so much in five years, yeah, six years. Yeah, be part of that change. Sports are crazy. Sports are crazy. You ever try like doing something being like, my body's actually kind of tired? I think I'm gonna stop. Yeah, those aren't the people that finish the Coca-Dona 250. Absolutely not. Because if you listen to that, you wouldn't finish it. There is something strange, I think, that happens. I don't know this because I've never experienced it. That you can like turn your brain off and like stop receiving like cues about like what's going on with your body. I think you get the cues, you just get good at moving past them. Yeah, that doesn't seem healthy to me. I don't think it is. That's what I'm saying. Like, I mean, I guess it's healthy if you can compartmentalize that and be like, okay, we're racing, so we don't listen to the cues, but then like I will say, like, if there's like a really big like I've had like really like big cues, like red flashing light, like this is actually really abnormal. Yeah. Um, and then you know like what? Well, like an injury. Yeah. Or like when you bonked your kepi. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And those were good cues to listen to. Yeah. Yeah. Crazy. But like gut things, you know, yeah, GI stuff. Like when Keegan barfed across the line last year at Sea Otter. Ugh. Yeah. Um, okay, change the direction of well, we could keep going. No, let's change it. Let's see what you got. I have Troca 560 drama on there too, which kind of was like similar, but that's not where I was gonna take us. Where were you gonna take us? Okay, so a friend I f a friend told me about this thing that they did. Um was it crownhole? Not yet. They did this thing. Have you heard of? It's called swamping. Ew. What? No. Oh, wait, is it when you fill up your whole yard with water? No. Wait, I did also. I did see or somebody like that's like how they like water their like they like. Are you on gardening TikTok? Uh, I shouldn't be. No, I'm not. Um, no, swamping, which is a good guess. It's a silly name for this. Wait, I want to guess some more things. Okay. No, it's something that I'm sure there's a swamping group in It's like a fetish thing? In uh Mancus. Ew. Um okay, so it doesn't have to do with like peeing a lot in your chamois. It's nothing gross. Oh boo. Okay, Tommy. Okay, so I think it's a bad name, but I was I felt like it was cringy because it had a name. So it I I did a little bit of clicking around, some research, but I the best like way to describe it is radical vulnerability. But I think it's like what I was told, I what and they call it swamping? Yeah, like love swamping, or like you can like swamp someone. But then the thing that that happened, the the group, the swamping group was basically a group of women that got together and they had like kind of structured um sharing and letting out of like anger and crying and all of the emotion happiness and like they group share, and the the goal is to be like vulnerable, like within a group and like like scream, yell, cry, like but it all had like prompts, and I was like, I would love to see you in a swamping group. I was like, you literally could not. That's why they told me this story. Cause how do you think I would act in a swamping group? I just kidnapped. Well, the I told my friend, I was like, there's literally no way I would do that. No, I couldn't. No. I was like, that's how I feel about going to like African dance. Like, like I just, I'm like, because then their point was like, well, it would be weirder if you weren't participating. Definitely. But I'm like, I just I was like, actually, what I compared it to, I was like, I feel that's thinking about that makes me feel how I feel when I see like um a non-professional play. I have so many things going on in my brain right now, just like picturing all of it. Well, so because like part of you know, like the song circles that I go to, that's why I was like, Hannah would love this. But it has to be with the right people because there's a like there's a really, really fine line between being like vulnerable and authentic and going gaggy and like too inauthentic, like there's something that like disingenuous that happens. And if it even verges on that, then I'm fucking out. Like I can't do it if it also I think part of what I imagine or what I would hope from swamping groups is that if you're not gonna be able to do that. Handing this message to all of you swampers, if you're not feeling like you can contribute to the yelling, if that's not how you're like that, you should be able to to bow out of the pe that you don't have to participate in all of that because otherwise it's inauthentic. Like you're not doing what you actually what's coming up and what you're feeling. So I'm feeling like backing into a corner and crying, feeling like getting in my car and getting the fuck out of there and talking about it on my podcast. Where did you hear about this? Tell me more about this. I can't thoughts. It was from a friend. I can't tell you who because I asked them. I was like, can I talk about this on the podcast? Because they were telling me all about it. Because they've been, I know exactly who it is. You don't even have to tell me I know exactly which friend of yours it is. Yeah, they went. How did they feel? Did they enjoy it? Oh, they participated. Of course they did, because I know exactly what they're doing. Yeah. And I bet like, but like they, and because I know this person without having to say like they have the I don't know any other way to describe it other than like authenticity that is like um more magnetic and like also what I do normally. Sorry, I'm just totally constantly messing with this mic. You are touching it a lot. Fidget spinner. Um, yeah, they were like, I'm trying to find a swamping group. I think that they call it swamping. I do too. Well, I had to ask them this morning. I was like, what is the thing called where you scream? And they were like, What? I was like, oh, so you think they call it swamping because you're like kind of in the depths, and it's like, okay, this is why I think they would call it swamping. Because it's like murky and like messy, but then there's also like life that comes from it, and it's like a really like um diverse ecosystem. I think you are the poster child for swamping now. I'm gonna go swamp is is it happening? It's gotta be happening. Honestly, it's happening in Mankus. I don't know if Mankus is slow on trends as far as like words go, you know, or like what it actually is. They definitely aren't putting it on social media because nobody's doing no one has social media yet. No, they just discovered Facebook. But they're definitely swamping. Some people come into the shop and swamp me. I swamp all over. I get fucking in the weeds, swapped. She's in the swamp weeds. Yeah. In the reeds. Yeah, I'm out. Wait, so is this a thing that's happening in town? I guess there's a swamp group. Yeah, I think this was like friends of friends. They ended up going with their boss's wife was in the group. Uh-huh. So that's like a thing that happened. Which is like a Durango. Like, that makeup stuff is like is so tough in a smaller town. Cause like, I'm like, half the time I'm like, okay, I would try something like that. I literally could never, I truly like this is gonna sound like a brag, but it's just making the point of how tiny Durango is. I uh decided to hike with Norman up to um on the Colorado Trail on it, wasn't even a weekend, it was a Thursday. Yeah. And uh in the middle of the day, truly, like actually the worst time of day to do it, and I I saw probably 20 people and 15 of them I stopped and talked to. Because they either knew me from Instagram, weird, or I was friends with them. I'll do you one better. I was in yoga, uh, I have a yoga class, and at one point, uh, this is when my back, I mean, my back still is so I was just laying down while everyone else was doing some days to go do Shivasana. Pretty much. No, it was child's pose. Um, but I was looking around and going, okay, that's my therapist. She used to work for her husband, but quit. And then that girl, she goes to see her husband, who's a therapist, but then like also this is an employee of somebody else. And but then she stopped seeing him because of something, and now she's going to this therapist, and then they're and then they're chat chatting because they are neighbors, but then her like it was every single person in there, and then it was like, and then she's my dog sitter, but then her son is where my partner used to live and also works with like there is a connection to every single person. It is yeah, it's so in incestual. Nope. Is OUS OUS incestuous? It's so intertwined. When you open your birthday present, there's a funny story with that because I went and bought it somewhere and then I they ended up, of course, knowing you. In Mancas? No, it was in Durango. Oh, I love that. But I was like, well, now she's gonna think anyway, anything I would gate for you, you would sell at your store. So then it makes buying gifts for you very challenging. Is it something I sell at the shop? It not, no, but I did have an awkward moment because they were like, Hannah should sell this, and I'm like, uh I can't wait. Anyway, so I think swamping for me is out. I need to I need somebody to tell me more about swamping. Well, and then I think we could have an entire I learned about all these other apps that what other apps I am not gonna talk about that on the podcast, but I'll tell you after that. Is it like swinging and stuff? I'm not gonna tell you on the podcast. Bo. Okay. But I was excited, I was like, oh, Hannah's gonna love that. I'm actually surprised you didn't know about swamping? Yeah, because I was like, they probably have a swamping group at fucking hand in hand. But okay, and then we started talking about like it's just like an expression of all of these feelings and being vulnerable with other people. And I don't know, I can't really decide if it's like no, I mean, my friend went to one and she didn't know anyone, which is better, honestly ideal. Yeah, like that definitely better at someone's house. This also reminds me in Menkus with a very similar like there's a um song group that meets and does like a sauna song thing, but like it's all top lift, so then you're in so then you're singing in a sauna with like that's my therapist, that's my accountant. Like it really to sing in a sauna. Well, I bet it's honestly I'm gonna go. I mean, I would go, but I am like these are all people that I know in the sauna. Well, probably pretty warm. They do it, it's a winter thing. I know, but like when I go in the sauna, I can barely like well, I they probably don't do have it as hot as you would have it, but I do think about doing that where I'm like, I every single person that I know goes to this uh thing, they all are either customers of mine or like people I have business relationships with, like who do our like bookkeeping and you know it's just and now you're gonna see all their boobs. Got like all my like wine reps and stuff, yeah. And then we just get to see each other's topics that is fine to me. Like I would do that, but like no, no. No, you wouldn't. Yeah, I would. Sing? It's singing. Oh, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We're not just like chit-chatting. We're like I just would rather chit-chat. I'm a big chit-chatter. What crazy? Uh-uh. Oh my god, we're yelling. I just took the I think we always are. That's why Dylan's like, I don't listen to the podcast, but I listen to it because I can hear you guys period recording. What did I confess to last? Oh, the cop with the uh in Spain. He was like, I didn't know that. And then Lily pointed out that that was the second rental car cop story that I have. Yeah, it's good you're back here. Okay, what else you have? Um what else you have? Oh, oh, well, wait, hold on. I was gonna say something. Oh, there was also we talked about um uh this friend, a friend of this friend wanted to start this room where you can go and like throw things. Like that exists. Yeah. Oh, what's it called? Well, I don't know. They have all kinds there's like the axe ones and there's some that you can like smash things. Yeah, a smash room. Nope, that's one of my things that's a big I think that's what those apps are for. Anyway, I don't mind any of this stuff. I just hate that it has names and that's marketed. Because when I was looking up swamping, it was developed by this. When you were looking up, how did you how'd you Google that? What did you type in? I just said swamping. And that's what came up. Well, no, stuff about swamps first. And then it was like swamping therapeutic use. Vulnerability. Yeah, no, one of the the AI summaries, you know how Google just does that now? Yeah. One of the bullet points was like swamping for therapeutic use. It's gonna be like the only thing on our TikTok feeds now. I don't want to see that. I really don't. I do. I really do. The only time I cry is on an airplane. I know we were talking about that. I think that's really super weird. I cry that's crazy. I cry a lot with like when we were talking on the phone yesterday and it made me cry. I was like, oh, whoa, this is weird. It came out of nowhere. Because I wasn't even like, okay, she's really upset. Well, sometimes that's the only way I can get through to you. Oh my god, do not turn away. Well, like the one time you and mom cried on the podcast, and I was like, just sitting here like the frigid bitch. Yeah. Just not a big cry. Can't wait to see what your baby hormones do. It's gonna be fun. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know either. Nor does baby. Um, okay. Well, I have traca 560. There was like quite a bit of drama. Yeah. Do you have options for me to pick from? Yeah. Okay. So we could talk about that. Um I was gonna talk about my detox from social media. Um but that one will be short because you just say, I'm not doing it anymore. What? Are you? What do you mean? You're still detoxing? Yeah. What does that look like for you? Okay, I guess we'll talk about it. Okay, wait, sorry, what was the other option? Um, well, I was gonna do some of the pop culture stuff. Like shows and stuff that we've watched. Um and then also, well, I did want to like I love how organized you are with everything today. It's really great. Oh, good. Well, like I actually love it. Okay, I can't tell if you're being nice. No, I'm not. I'm um it's really fun. Uh there was a World Cup, um, the mountain bike world cup circuit has started, which is crazy because it's very late. Okay. Um, and I can tell you've already tuned out. I was like, wait, that wasn't even an option. I definitely didn't know. I was just gonna I was gonna give a shout out to the US women. Good job, women. It it was a crazy one because it got really muddy um and it basically turned into a running race, and then it had you know there's just drama drama around bike racing. One uh so there was an American um woman who got third, her first elite podium, uh Madigan Monroe. She went to CMU just over here in Grand Junction. Um, but yeah, she just like transferred teams too. So she like left track, went to Live Giant, and got a podium, which is pretty sick. It's kind of cool because like I'm sure there wasn't any bad blood, but like it sucks to not get re signed onto a team. Yeah. But it's really sick to not get re signed, sign with a new team, and then have your breakthrough result. Yeah, that's cool. I like that. So sick. So congrats to her. Um, she and Payson did a really good podcast, actually. I listened to that on my hike on the CT. Um, and then uh in the U23 race, a girl from Durango got third in the XCO, um, Bailey. And then in the U23 short track race, an American won uh McKenna. Gosh, I hope that's her name. Anyway. I'm not even gonna ask if you know their last names because I don't think you do. Well, I know Bailey's. Um you don't want to say it. Siopa. C-I-O-P-P-E Wait. Yeah, Siopa. Okay. I don't think I've ever said that out loud. Anyway, good job, the girls. Great. I mean, that's a bit like it was the first time it's ever been in South Korea. And Cena, a specialized racer, won both the short track and the cross the country. Anyway, okay, so the 560 is like it's that ultra in dis uh distance in distance. Um and I was reading, oh my god, there's like so many like blogs and subreddits and blah blah blah about all of this, which is crazy because I'm like, oh my god, why do people care this much? But it's like this advantage. We've been talking about it on the podcast. I know this is this is an interesting point of gravel racing. So there's like the type of gravel racing that I do that's like really long stuff, but you can complete in a day for sure. Um, and that's getting faster. And then like you can maybe go shorter a little bit, but like for the most part, you have like the racer bro stuff that like you know, people who race the unbound 200. And then tracka gets really complicated because they have four distances. There's a 100, there's the 200, there's the 360, and then there's the 560. And it's kind of like everything except for the kilometers, yes. Uh everything except for the 560, pros race. Right. Like it's not like unbound where like all the pros do the 200. Right. Like none of some of them do the 100, but no one really cares, it seems. Um, and then there's the 560 that's kind of this like more adventure bike packy thing. Sure. The promoters messed up because they called the 560 just an adventure ride, but it's not a race. Okay. But it is, and they were like celebrating the winner. There's no podium. No, there is there was a podium. Okay. So it is a race. Okay. And I remember this I like I was reading through someone's blog about this, and I was like, actually, this is vaguely familiar because I remember the first year I did Traka 360. I wonder if there's like weird liability stuff. I think so. I think so. Okay. Yes. Because, well, we were I like signed up for this race. The only person I had known had who had done it a couple years before was Lachlan. And like, it was just like it was you signed up to do the 560? No, the 360 years ago. Like four years ago. I'm making a connection here. Okay. But I remember it said it said that that um it wasn't a race, it's an adventure ride, the 360. Okay. And I was like, that's confusing because this seems like a race. So I remember being it's it triggered this memory for me. And I was like, I think it's just a verbiage thing and maybe a bad translation. Oh. Potentially, sure. Or it's a liability thing. I mean, if they can translate it properly on the other three races, then it's probably I don't say that's how they started, all of them. Like it's a good thing. But they would venture use to now it's sort of stuck with the five six. So what's everyone else saying? What's going on in the subreddits? Okay, so then that's that's one thing. Okay, it's kind of this vague. Is it a race? Is it not a race? There's some vague rules, but they aren't really enforced. Like the writers can't really draft off of people. And then there's no course marshalling or there's no course marking either. You're not allowed to have a support crew, and like at Unbound XL, that's very strict to like to even mean like you can't have a camera crew come in to like people have to stop at gas stations because it's self-supported, so you run out of food and water. Yeah. You can't even you can't have your camera crew come into the gas station with you. So there's like a a distance rule of like so you can have a camera crew, but they have to stay. They have to stay because like they can't interfere. Interfere at all. Okay. So that also occurs with the 560. Okay. But then the thing is with Draga is that they don't really enforce stuff. Okay. And so then it's all a little bit vague. And I can speak to that from the 360 as well. Like the first year for some of these rules, I'm like, that's a great rule. And then we're racing. I'm like, got it, they're not actually enforcing this at all. Like what? Um, there was a r well the women weren't allowed to work with men. Sure. And then we all got mixed together, and then there was a huge group of women working with a huge group of men, and then brought a big group of us back. Um, and then also like in the 360, you're you have to carry a cell phone for safety, but you're not allowed to use it to communicate to your crew in the hits. How would they possibly enforce that? And I know. Okay. And it happened, but I'm like, uh, yeah. Okay. Anyway. So what's so then in the 560, there's a couple of things. Like, sounds like the guy who got first place passed the guy who got second place in the last few kilometers, and then it pissed off the guy who got second place because he was like, There's no way this this guy caught up to me and passed me fairly. And so he went back through this guy's Strava, um, or like GPX file. And like it looks like he superimposed it on top of the course GPX, and he was like, he's cut these certain turns, and so then he screenshot all these like turns that this dude like cut the corners. Are these professionals or are these amateurs? Like, what what does it matter? These are people who are winning and getting second at the 560s, so I think professionals. So and this is the argument of like you can't call it not a race because people are making money off of the sport. Like both of these guys and women, the uh woman who won Maddie Nut, she a friend of mine, she used to race the like the distances that I raised. This was her first ultra, yeah, and she smashed the record cool and won the whole thing. Yeah, and she kind of surprised herself. Amazing, love that. It was great, but I I think it's it is now professionalized. Yeah, it is now like, and then there were like all these allegations because the dude who got second had had just returned to sport after a four-year ban for some dopings. I don't know what the specifics were, but then he was pointing fingers at this the first place guy because there was other it was just and it just like made me sad, actually. So, and it's it's the athletes themselves that are doing this like finger pointing and stuff. It's not like other people who are speculating and feeling like this is Oh no, I think it's everyone. This reminds me of um that chess documentary. I started it and I couldn't I slept through half of that. That's crazy. What it was enthralling. Um, but same kind of thing where this guy was like, there is no way that this kid just is like beating everyone. Can you spoiler this? Because I'm not gonna watch it. Uh, did a weird sound. You're you mine? Yeah. Oh, did it? Uh yeah, basically, this has been a while since I've watched it now, so I'm like, can I remember it? Um, this like world master, whatever they are called for chess. Um something like that, who's like undefeated. Um, this like kid on the internet, on the internet, like came up. That's when he was like doing everyone. Basically, we're like, he had already gotten like in trouble for cheating um on this like computer chess, the like chess.com. Right, because he wasn't he didn't like get his ranking from like person in like person to person matches. It was like computer internet, yes, like that he worked his way up, I think, if I can remember this correctly, but he worked his way up like a lot on the computer, but then also did have like in-person matches and ended up beating this guy in person in person. And when they asked him about like he just he's just like a shit stir, right? Like he's just like a pot stir. They were they were like real, but then the characters the real crazy thing about it is they were like, well, how did he cheat in person? And like the big like the clickbait thing is that like they decided he used anal beads. What? Yeah, that like he somehow was signaling to somebody or somebody in the audience audience was signaling to him via anal beads, um, like what the correct move was or what not to do. Like they would vibrate. I don't know. I don't know. Like, literally watched the documentary. Well, I mean, yeah, but like he was literally on like CNN talking about like eight beats pretty much. It was I don't even know if it was CNN. I can't remember. It's in my in my brain and out my brain. Um but same kind of thing where the guy who lot and these are all like young dudes that are just like not super like emotionally intelligent, is what I'm gathering. Um like incredible geniuses in some in some realms, you know, um, and like maybe less so in others, but the guy was just like, there's no way that this kid is doing this honestly, and like had to like he and his dad like do all this research. So it sounds it that was all I could think about was um that there's some parallels here that the guy's like, there's no way this guy could have caught me and passed me. Yeah, he must be cheating. Now we have to figure out if he's using anal beads. Yeah, do you think he's using anal beads to get ahead? For sure, those seem really advantageous with cycling when you have to sit on your seat for hours and hours. I don't know. I I see your point. Um, and I'm sure a little bit was like that. Um it's just a shame because yeah. Well, who's at fault? Honestly, the promoters. Right. And I really like the promoters. They just probably like but then also actually the media too is like is sort of at fault because uh Dylan and I were talking about this in the car. I just like from Traka, like, and I have a soft spot for Traka specific. Actually, all the races I do. Here's the thing people work really hard to work really hard. And now, like, even before my pregnancy and like seeing the other side of the tape, um, I like any race that I sign up with, I end up being knowing the promoters and becoming friends with them. And I do like there, it is just a group of people trying to do their best. Totally and like trying to put on like an event for people that are. But I feel for people with like cocaine, like these running races are actually psycho because like like cycling is one thing, but there's like there are so there's a lot of eyeballs on ultra running, and it is like it's like the 560 culture piece. Like, there's like a different type of person that like does these ultra runs versus like track and field or like marathons and like same thing with like ultra cycling, and like it there's just these friction points, and then I see these articles. Sorry, I'm gonna call out Velo News. Now we're never gonna get advertisement from them, but like what for the podcast? Yeah, well, I don't know if that was a good thing. Or Velo, it's not even called Velo News anymore, but they just do these like bullshit, like clickbaity titles that like it makes it worse. And they were like, I don't whatever. They were just like there were so many things about the Traka 560 and like the racing and the promoter, like driving and f like driving and what? Filming. I saw that. I did see that which I'm sure he did, which honestly shouldn't do that. Probably not, you probably shouldn't. Put it down, put it down the camera. But the reason that Traka I the reason I signed up for Traka four years ago, which is really cool to see what it's become now. I mean, thousands of people are doing it, but they had an incredible, they had great branding. Yeah, they had a really fabulous course. Like the course was so sick. Yeah, and it still is, like they're shortening it, which kind of sucks. Um anyway, I just I just am like, could the media like stop with the clickbait things? Like, no one's gonna read anyway, just like it sounds like people maybe are, but I mean, I guess the like moving forward, the thing is like all of these races are I mean, new-ish, right? Like Traca's hasn't been around for that long. Yeah, and so like they're gonna say they had a really good media team, like they had great courses and really good photographers. I mean, is any does any race get every single thing right? No, and it's taking like they're all just getting better and better. And so I think what is really like what people should be paying attention to, but what people definitely aren't gonna be paying attention to is like what their response is and then how they deal with it moving forward. I will say, as a bike racer and as a you know, participant in the sport as well, what I really do want, I know you're gonna like laugh in my face about this, but like especially as a professional athlete, I want clear rules. And then if those rules are put into action, like I want enforcement. I want enforcement. And that is makes so much sense. That is the because then it becomes very stressful because I actually like in that sense professionally, you follow rules. I'm a very big rule follower, like it's crazy because you're you're not any other well just question the rules, but like but in my in my job and like in this public sport that I do and like your role model for other people, like yeah, I'm gonna follow the damn rules. Oh but then when the rules are like only enforced sometimes in this one scenario, or like if the moto is around, like it's so much more than that. Oh, that would drive me crazy. It's just really, really dishonest. Well, I just think everyone would follow the rules, but that is not the case. Well, that's what I'm saying. Like at a certain point, it becomes like a moral dilemma, right? Where you're just like, okay, morally, this is really like I I'm so upset about this because it goes so much like beyond a race result. Okay, so that that so the like everyone else doing it. So back in the the Lance Armstrong era, I'm not cutting any of these fuckers slack, let me be so so clear. But there was so much cheating. Yeah. There was so much doping and the sport was dirty, dirty, dirty. Yeah. But then in order how I understand, because obviously I was not a male bike racer back then.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:58

Um, but how I understand it is like you sort of like in order to even survive in the Peloton, pay to play, you had to participate in that bullshit. I mean, there there are some like famous, like clean bike racers that are still like around now and they're like advocate for clean sport, and I really appreciate them, but like sucks for them because like they didn't get to win the things because they were clean. Yeah. But then like I also feel bad for like all the other like the the other guys that like ended up doping because they're like a lot of them, like this is kind of they're like their way out of poverty in you know, these these different places, and like that's what they had to I don't know. It's just like it's so complicated. I hope that cycling has moved past that because that's I I'm out. I'm fucking out.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:50

I mean, I like yeah, that's just well and I imagine like even to get to that point, or like I mean that there's a lot of like little baby steps where you're like, well, there's sure gray area, right? So I like and then like and then it just keeps going, and then you're like, I'm full on fucking doping. Yeah. Like I'm just like breaking the rules in like such a hard. I mean, I think that's probably what there's there's cheating going on in gravel. You think in like the Grand Prix? Ugh, I don't know. We are tested a lot in the Grand Prix. Well, but I mean, in other like I think people are always looking for not to cheat, but for like Martial Gains. Well, what was like crazy, uh, I really hate to but it, I mean, it is like so Katie Compton. Do you remember that name when I raced cyclocross? During my career as a cross athlete, I only saw Katie Compton win nationals. Like it was only her, and it was like in the like height of American cyclocross. Like, she was literally truly the best cyclocrosser in the US, like men and women, hands down. She would go to Europe, get podium. Like, she was an amazing, amazing athlete. I personally believe she was clean for most of her career. Uh-huh. She just had the longest winning streak of them all. Yeah. And she ended up testing positive for something. She got banned, and it it was just like the worst way that she could have finished her career because it just made you question every every bike race that she had done. And I my personal belief, again, is that she was clean. I mean, I'd never I guess I raced in the races with her, but I couldn't really say I raced against her. That's the like that's But but I think like it was so like I mean, I don't know. I'm just like this is me truly just speculating, like alone or like with you here. But I'm like, okay, like that was her entire existence. Her brand was winning cyclocross. Like this was before Instagram. Like you your value was like, you know, when you decide to step over the line and cheat. That then, like if anything else. She she felt like she had to do it because she was losing. She was gonna start not winning. Yeah, welcome to the fucking world though. Like that's how that goes. Totally. Bullshit. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and then you jeopardize. There's something about aging gracefully of there is something about aging gracefully and being like, I there are people who are younger than me, who are stronger. I know it's weird. Um, who are gonna take your spot and to be able to like let go of that and and find a different lane, you know? I or just contribute in a different way. Do you see these like guys on TikTok or let me relate it back to like normal life? Well, this isn't normal, but they're like all of these, it's always men. Well, that's not true. Women in a different one uh realm, but they're like the guys that are like biohacking like youth, and they're like, I'm so young and hip. They all just look like, you know Kendalls. They well, but like real. Eerie and like waxy. A little like waxy and robotic, but like they're trying to like just oh, is this like the guy who's trying to live forever or something? Yeah, all of that kind of stuff. But there is this live forever and alone. It's like that's not the point. I think we're missing the point on living thing, right? I think we're just like we're holding on to everything because it's actually not. You're supposed to grow and change and evolve, yeah. Totally. Yeah. And I can say that as now being a pregnant professional athlete. Well, because you're changing. You're changing, and your priorities are gonna shift also. Like, it's very scary. It's like incredibly terrifying. Of course, because like but like I'm saying that, like I get like I'm just saying, yeah, that's how it's supposed to be, in my opinion. Like this life is you're not supposed to always win the fucking bike race. Like there needs to be a changing of the guard. I mean, I watched the Vuelta, the Vuelta Espana, uh, and a Spanish woman finally won this year, and they there was a very young new podium um amongst you know a lot of the heavy hitters that are usually on the podium. And one of one of the not clickbaity articles was like, you know, it's cool to see, you know, the new faces on the podium. And that is that is what's exciting about sport. It's this like breakthrough performances and I just said sport. No, but what I was thinking and and what you just like that it actually like if you zoom out, it's not about each individual athlete as like the individual. No, it's about the sport hole as whole, the whole sport, sport hole, sport hole, crown hole, crown hole full circle. We can end it now. It would be a brief episode, but yeah. I feel like we've been here for 12 hours. It's because we camped. It's because we camped. We we've been doing this for 24 hours, pretty much. Yeah, no, I I totally, I totally agree. And it's really, it's really painful and hard to do that, you know. Of course, and I I remember when I was coming into the sport of gravel, although it was very new, um Alison Tetrick was sort of at the top then. And she was an amazing role model for me because I mean at my first big race that I won, BWR, she was like, here, come in. Like, she basically took me under her wing and she was like, You should eat these things, and this is what it I'd literally never even ridden over a hundred miles. And you know, I just like I'm sure it wasn't easy because like she had never done as well as she wanted to do at that race, and I was a younger, newer person that came. And since I've been in the sport, there's been a lot of younger, newer women that have come in, and it's equal parts like really challenging because I'm like, oh my god, I'm like the game is changing, and this is really hard for me physically and mentally. But at the same time, I'm like, this is super cool and very validating at the same time because I'm like, okay, these are the women that like carry this forward. That's why I think you are such an important piece. You know, the way that you just itched your eyeball. Your eyeball actually was moving. I've been trying to give you a compliment, but you look like Harvey Dent. Super gross. Um, but you don't have to scratch your actual eyeball. My actual eyeball was is scratchy. That was really icky. Um but why I think you are such an important person in this sport is because you can zoom out and see the big picture. And that, like, while you do feel all of the things of like, uh, like they're catching up, you know, like this younger generation. You can paint it like it's easy. Well, no, of course not. It's not, but you I think you can see um what's really important and what actually matters, and that when it's eventually time for you to do something different and let other people like you'll do it in a gracious, like mentor way and not in like a jealous, psychotic way. Let's hope. I mean, we'll see, but only time will tell. Only time will be. Only time will tell. No, I think it's I think it's interesting to think about like the morality in sport um and just like Well, those two things sometimes have a hard time existing together. Yeah, but I think when they do exist and when you see the morality in sport, I think those are the coolest moments in sport. Or mortality, like just like no, not mortality. What? Well, just like I like when people die in sport. I think that's the coolest part. No, no, no. No, but like when careers and and new ones begin. Like it is as someone who actually doesn't life cycle like change very much. Yeah. Even watching that happen to other people's careers, I'm like, oh my god, that looks really hard and really challenging. Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot, there's a lot there. But then there's so much ego in in professional sport as well. Like, not just cycling, it's yeah, there's a lot of ego and identity, too. Boy, we could make this a two-hour podcast. Let's not. I really don't want to. Um well, you look like oh, that's what it is. Not what is it? Saw cop. You look like you're going to a saw cop. Like there's something about it's like a 50s dance. I think it was when the girls the poodle skirts. Yeah. You've got like I think I'm just not a skirt person. I think you aren't either. I'm having a hard time with this. Speaking of identity. Honestly, it's so comfortable though. Well, that's great. Then you should wear it. But like maybe with different shoes. Well, I just had these on. I know. It actually it's very patriotic. God damn it. Thanks for bringing all this up now. Hannah tried on 5,000 hats. This is an ended up. I thought we were gonna record while we were camping, so this is I didn't bring any like this is what I got. This is what I got. Dirty hair. Still smells like smoke from the campfire. You showered. I didn't want to wash my hair because it'll take forever to dry. I'll wash it tonight. Oh my god, next week. I don't know. We'll see what happens. Oh god. Um, okay. The only thing left was Margot's got money problems and detox from oh troubles. And my detox from social media. Yeah, so well, we could also it's a it's a challenge.

unknown 1:12:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:24

What? I was just gonna say on the detox thing. I'm not someone who's like, well, I guess I'm announcing it on the podcast. You're also not no, but I I like I I have I have contracts. Like I have to be on social media. Correct. I can't just like delete it and I talk to my therapist. It has to do with like anxiety and like blah, blah, blah.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:44

And not sleeping. Like, I just don't sleep anymore anyway because of hormones. But having a phone, it I've never not had my phone in the room because it's my alarm. Yeah. But right now I don't have to wake up to an obviously I know that there's other alarm clocks that I can purchase. Listen, I'm I'm right here. Like I'm anyway, you just have to figure out how to hack your own system. Yeah. And for me, it's plugging it in in a fully different room. That's what I've been doing too. Yeah. I feel like we I and this is a brand new thing that I just started doing. I wonder if we just did it on the same day and we were like when did you start? Um probably like four or five days ago. I started on Thursday or Friday. No, sorry, Wednesday. Yeah, I feel like that's some weird, like twin behavior. Super weird to just be like I literally not just like, oh, I'm not gonna look at my phone. I've been plugging it in in the kitchen and leaving it there. Yep, yeah, all day. It actually stays well, so for me it stays in there all day. And then if I have to do a post, like I'll throw a couple stories up. Um, but I haven't really been bringing it on hikes or anything. Like usually I probably should. Yeah, probably. You can you don't have to look at your phone, but you should probably have it with you while you're yeah, for sure. In your third trimester on hikes, like Friday and stuff. I like I'm just using my phone to like listen to podcasts and you know, music. Yeah. But like in my normal life, not like pregnancy life, I don't look at the screen that much. Yeah. But now sleeping is different. Like when I'm really tired, which I'm just really always tired, the easiest thing is just to scroll. And like you can pick up. And I also kind of yeah, and the ADHD thing is a really big part of that.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:32

Um, but yeah, I'm glad you're reading because that's the best ride because I'm like, I couldn't even get into like my books and like holding the book and blah blah blah. So I was like, I really hate to like buy a product to replace a behavior, but I was like, whatever, I'm just gonna like get a kindle and I'm gonna see because like Dylan's really sensitive to light, and so like I can't just like throw on the book light. And so I got a Kindle and it's a game changer. I know, and like as a bookstore owner, I do hate them. Um but I also as a user, I love these however. It does help. It does help. I wish that. Okay, so oh, this is a thing I've been thinking of doing. I don't know, maybe since we started the podcast that I just keep forgetting to do. Um I'm gonna just like plug my shop for a second. Duh. Well, because people have asked, like, how to how to support the shop when they don't, and I'm like, we don't have an online shop. We will eventually have some merch online soon um when we do this next round of merch. But the thing, um, so Libro FM is like if you are an audiobook listener. Um, yeah, exactly. So it's instead of using Audible, um, because Amazon, whatever. We don't instead of using Audible. Listen, I fulfilled our Amazon uh credit because I bought a Kindle, so everyone can feel good about that. Because you bought a Kindle? No, I don't know. We don't feel great about that. Um so LibreOFM is really cool because you can listen to audio, it's basically Audible, but instead of giving Amazon money, it goes through bookstores, like independent bookstores. And like so, you can either you can like go through your own like local bookstore, or if you wanted to, you could go through hand in hand. That's hand in hand. Yeah, we'll have Lily Linkett. Um, but it's also an employee-owned business. Um, so like everything about it is just like a better option for audiobooks. But what I was gonna say is that I wish that LibreO FM had the same thing that they do for audiobooks as they did for like ebooks, but uh Amazon and Kindle has such a market on ebooks that it'll probably never happen. There are other campers through Libby. You can definitely go through Libby, which is through your local library. Yeah, which is great. Um, which is awesome. Yeah, that's a great way to do it. You can't like get the book get the books immediately, which is actually kind of nice. Because I mean, you only have them for two weeks. I mean, depending on other libraries have lots of books. Oh, really? I mean, I'm working with the Mancas Library, which is I feel like books that are popular titles elsewhere, people are like, oh, I've never heard of it. Um, but I I mean I'm a special case because I get to request books that I want to read and fancy. Um, which does make me want to talk about one of the books I'm currently reading right now, and I can't give like a full endorsement because I'm only like a quarter of the way through it. It's called John of John by Douglas Stewart. He's the one he wrote Suggy Bane. Um, it's all like in Scotland. I wonder if Lily, I bet would um his writing is really beautiful though. The Suggy Bane won the Pulitzer Prize in 2020. No, maybe Booker. Anyway, blah blah blah. I really like that book. Wow, you just fired off so many new words. Wow, crazy. It's like I actually know about something. No, I miss not bikes. Anyway, that's great. Tell me about what you're reading. I can't remember the title. Um, I can. Half her age. Half his age. Half of his age. Yeah, because it was what's her name? Jeanette McCurdy. Yep. Which I loved her other book called. I'm glad my mom died. I can picture the the cover. Yep. It's her with pink and it holding the urn. Yeah, it's yellow, like butter yellow. That was her memoir. And so I read her memoir. Actually, Helen and I listened to it and we were like, well, that's a crazy story. Yeah. Um, but then I downloaded this other book and it is graphic. Super duper. Super duper. Yeah. So if you want a real quick read that feels a little it's super honest. Well, yeah. I was like, what? Sarah was reading it while we were camping, and Jeff was camping, and she read this part and looked visibly like great. It actually made me ill. And I was like, read it out loud. And she was like, Jeff doesn't want to hear it. And I was like, do it. I didn't want to read it to Jeff. It was gross. It was about her like cupping her period blood in the closet. Oh my god. Anyway. So that's a fun one. Yeah, so I'm excited to have a Kindle. I do think that for like breastfeeding and stuff, it'll be nice because you can do it with one hand. Yeah, and it's really light. I have to say, like, I really hate to support Amazon. I truly hate there are. And like I just didn't have the time and that's how Amazon gets capacity to research. I know. It's a big, big bummer. No, but in the same right, it is a game. I really don't use Amazon that much, though. And they're waterproof, which is they are? Yeah, the one you got is. Oh, that's nice. And so is the one I have. Yeah. Well, I like my reading journey. And I have left the phone out of the bat. The thing that I have a hard time with is I wake up to pee one million times. And a couple of the times I'll go back to sleep, but then sometimes I just am like up and then I'm just awake. That's where a Kindle is for an hour and a half. And so, like even last night, like I was up for two hours um trying not to pee in the bed because I didn't want to climb out because I was so uncomfortable. Yeah. And uh I just read. It was nice. Yeah. So anyway, that's my that's my hack. And I'm only posting, like I only just post and get out, which I feel a little bit bad feeding the beast that I'm like trying to get away from, and I don't think is good for anyone. I know, isn't that weird? But it's like in my contracts, so I have to. So that's work. Okay. Um, well, thank you. That was great. Thank you. No, no, thank you. Uh till next week. Uh, we will have to figure out a maternity uh clause. Clause for this podcast that we run. I mean, I think we're gonna be able to do that. But I mean, I just I want to brace everyone. You're gonna have to you uh sadly hear from us less. Um, unless I'm so bored and I'm like, surely I can sit here for an hour and talk. So yeah, we'll just see what it's like. I mean I will But I just want to prep everyone. There could be a month off. There probably should be. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm it needs to probably happen. And then we'll just have so much to tell you. Oh my god, it's all gonna be crazy. I so I'm gonna have so many questions. As will I. No answers. Yeah. Anyway, um, thank you so much to with Pace Productions and Lily for making this episode possible. And we will have some sponsors actually soon. Let's hope so. Let's hope so, because I've got a baby to feed around here. Yeah. Cool. Yay, thanks. Okay, bye-bye.