The Sharon Francisco Show

Olivia Story — From 5 to 18 Team Members and a $1.5M Bookkeeping Business

• Sharon Francisco • Season 1 • Episode 53

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What does it really take to go from feeling stuck and ready to walk away… to building a bookkeeping business with 18 team members and $1.5M in revenue?

In this episode, Sharon sits down with Olivia Story, founder of Gecko Cloud Solutions, for a powerful conversation about growth, leadership, mindset, systems, AI, pricing, and the future of bookkeeping.

Olivia shares how she went from a team of 5 to 18 team members, rebuilt her confidence, strengthened her leadership, and created a business that now supports more clients, more team members, and a much bigger vision.

In this episode we cover:
• What brought Olivia to the point of nearly walking away
• The mindset shift that helped her grow again
• How she went from 5 to 18 team members
• Hitting $1.5M in revenue and what helped that growth compound
• Why leadership can look nurturing, not loud
• How Olivia structures her team with BAS agents and team leaders
• Why systems and checklists are essential for scaling
• The role of apps, automation, and strong processes
• Why AI will change bookkeeping, but not remove the need for trusted advisors
• The future opportunity for bookkeepers who build advisory and relationship skills
• Why undercharging the industry has to stop
• Olivia’s advice for bookkeepers who feel exhausted, overwhelmed, or ready to give up

Key insights:
• Growth starts with mindset, but it needs structure behind it
• You do not need to be a “traditional” leader to lead well
• Systems create freedom for both the owner and the team
• Bookkeepers are already leaders to their clients
• AI will remove some of the manual work, but human review, trust, and advisory still matter
• Pricing needs to reflect the professional value bookkeepers bring
• You are not alone in this industry, and you do not have to grow alone

🎧 Listen now wherever you get your podcasts
https://www.sharonfrancisco.com/podcast

Questions for the podcast? hello@sharonfrancisco.com

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👉  Also: The Entrepreneurial Bookkeeper — grow your business without sacrificing your health: sharonfrancisco.com/program

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Have a question for the podcast? Email hello@sharonfrancisco.com

SPEAKER_01

Hello and welcome back to the Sharon Francisco Show. Today we are joined by the amazing Olivia Story, founder of Gecko Cloud Solutions. Olivia has spent 14 years building her business, growing it with a talented team and with over 125 clients. And most recently, hit the million turnover annual revenue. And I've actually had the privilege of working with Olivia for now nearly two years. The first 12 months was one-on-one coaching. And now you're a part of our graduate academy. Olivia is very driven. She's very courageous and always willing to keep learning and growing, a woman of my own heart. I am so excited to have this conversation with you, Olivia Story. Welcome to the Sharon Francisco Show.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you so much, Sharon. It is awesome to be here today and to share my story and hopefully touch the hearts of someone out there that's just a bit stuck or needing a bit of oof that you can do it. Like the positive vibe that I think Sharon brings to all of us. And that's why I'm so excited to be here today. I love it, Olivia.

SPEAKER_01

Look, you know what? When we first met, um yeah, you you were considering working with me and we're having such a we'd known each other for about 10 years, I think, before that, through we sort of knew it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, we had a mutile thing, and I think it was a little catch-up with a couple of people at Greenslopes one time for coffee. And I actually really vibed off your energy and I went, wow, you you don't see the bookkeeping job. And I think I resonated with that. And then I think it was actually around mid uh 2024 that you sent me a flyer in the mail for one of your little programs.

SPEAKER_01

There you go.

SPEAKER_00

Um, and you actually canceled the program, but I reached out and that's right. Yes. Yeah, and I just went, you know what, I'll book a meeting and I did, and I haven't looked back. This it's just been a wonderful journey to like spend time with you and learning from your experience from the coaching perspective and mindset. I think that's been the biggest transitional thing that I've had over the last couple of years is yeah, that mindset piece because it's where it's at.

SPEAKER_01

It is, it's it's truly where it's at. And we'll unpack that some more. But look, and and the feeling is very mutual, Olivia. You know, they say when when you work with clients and, you know, you're a class advocate clients, I I just right from the beginning, I could see that like everything that we work together on, and you were just so willing and being open to, you know, and also challenge me around things as well. And I love that because it's really helpful because when we work together to figure out an outcome, it's not just me with you. I learned things off you too. And it I love that when you've got that kind of relationship, you can really grow together with that sort of stuff. So it's been the journey has been um very mutual as far as I'm concerned. I I feel like I get just as much out of you as you get out of me. So that's that's when it really works, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00

So yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01

When we first um when we first uh connected and you were considering working with me, you were pretty honest that you felt like it was all like getting a bit too much a couple of years ago. So, what had brought you to that point, do you think, where you felt like, oh, I don't know about all this?

SPEAKER_00

Look, I think it was a combination of things, but the big one probably was um the roll-over effect of COVID and such a big impact that COVID have it had on our industry, and that you know, workload was so boom, boom with JobKeeper and things. I then had a small growth period. So uh to give context to your members and and people that are listening to this, I started in 2011 and I started with only three of us, and we stayed like that for quite a few years, and then it was in 2019 I was trying to really pivot a few things. So I sort of went in two tangents. I went in the marketing space to and then I built a small team of marketing professionals, like doing social media for clients and and websites, and then pivoted across also into cloud integration, so trying to find applications for clients because there was all of a sudden all these apps that started to appear, and I was like, okay, which app suits the client? So um, from that, I then started to grow. And it was then around that 2024 time, maybe actually late 23, I'd lost um a couple of really nice sized clients that had a bit a bit of a financial impact on me, but also I had a bookkeeper that was um decided to actually take the database of clients that I gave to her. She took the whole lot. And I was like really down. Like it affected me personally, it affected me mentally, and it affected my numbers, right? So um I think I was just at that lull, and I was like, I either just sell up, get out, you know, and a lot of people sit there going, I'm out, I can't do it anymore. Um, and I got your flyer at a really pinnacle time because I think I was at that decision point, and I think it was just like my last ditch effort. I'm gonna grab Sharon's thing, and and I did that one session with you, and I went, Oh no, you're the right coach I need to either make it or break it. It was sort of like the last ditch effort sort of thing. And yeah, and I have a look back because again, I'll keep saying mindset. You changed my mindset to see that I had the confidence in my skill set. Yeah, I had the confidence of having the intellectual property around our industry. I just needed to have the mindset to go, I can do this on a bigger scale. And I think that's what's happened. And so that's why I went from probably even that few years ago, I'm now a team of 18. So I've had the strength and confidence to jump further.

SPEAKER_01

Incredible what you've done. Because how many, how many bookkeepers did you have on it was five, wasn't it, when we were started working together. And so two years down the track, you've just um brought on your 18th bookkeeper. Is that one eighth?

SPEAKER_00

Well, 18th, when I say bookkeeper, I've got actually three HR people now apart because we've diversified. I again through you and changing how things, I actually streamlined really back and niched back into bookkeeping, stopped going further out and went back to my call, but still felt that HR seemed to fall really well with payroll. So I diversified just in that area. And I actually was really fortunate to meet someone that had the same passion for her sector, which was HR. So partnered with her to sort of propel that. And we're trying to grow that side of the business as well because it works well with payroll. Yeah, when you have all the yeah, it's a great complementary um service rather than marketing, which was very different. Yeah, and I think it really worked well. Yeah, that's cool. And now that's where so, but at the same time, yeah, I've got 15 that are bookkeepers now, and then the others are the HR.

SPEAKER_01

That's a substantial business, Olivia. That's awesome. And and hats off to you. Like you've you've really just gone from strength to strength over, and you did it quickly, like you really just grabbed the information and ran with it. But you mentioned mindset. What uh initially, and we'll go into this more as we have a conversation more of a conversation about this. What was the initial thing that you sort of like you could see? Because I know a lot of people say when they work with me, it's the mindset. For you, what was the initial thing where you thought, yeah, that's that's what I need to like work on or to change or whatever?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think um it was right at the start when you give me or give the people the alignment prep pack, believe it or not, and you then get you to uh really unpack in a very structured way, because it's obviously comes in a nice pack. Yes, um, what are our personal goals? What are our ambitions? What where do we see ourselves, you know, futuristically from now? And I was I'm very lucky I have um my family's property. So I sat, I took some time out and I did that, and that was where straight away I went, okay, I'm going to put everything in to grow this. Um and then yeah, push forward. And I think it was from the start, you have a very structured coaching way, but it worked for me because I got like scaly talent and all of the different modules, yeah, and I just unpacked every fortnight. We did our um little sessions, and I would then go back on them and then start growing from them. And if you stick with it, it it propels you forward because you do all elements of the business, because even you know, marketing and all of those things, yeah. Once I did that 12-month program, it put it together. So now I feel like I have the confidence, but it was a structured program to do that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, nice.

SPEAKER_00

And you're not left on your own, right? You have you to come back to and report that to go account. And it's good because you called me out on accountability to make sure I was sticking to it. Yeah. And then, yes, I hit a million dollars last year, but then I was just saying, like, I, you know, 2026 opened up my PL properly and looked at the whole year and I cracked 1.5 and I went, how did that happen? So I think I think with you have the right mindset and then use these structured things to, you know, propel the business, that's when you start getting the real delay gratification and uh it just compounds.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, definitely. And that's it, it's really interesting you say that. And congratulations on the 1.5. Like, seriously, Olivia. Like it, that's like it's it is compounding, you know, it's catapults and putting on your 18th team member, it's just incredible. And and again, hats off to you. But we call that uh initial alignment, you get a prep pack, it's a 19-page uh document, and uh I call it a fun business plan. It's really interesting that you say that there's it's it's different, it's not like a business plan, it's not like a personal plan, it's like a bit of a mix, and it really does get you to, you know, go and sit quietly and we sort of say get away from your office and things and go make it a bit of a ritual and enjoy that process. So that's interesting that that was that kind of time when you started dreaming. It'd be interesting to have a look back on that now to see what you'd written to to see uh how soon you would have hit that 1.5 mil with 18 team members.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I I actually have to say, I probably wouldn't have hit it because I didn't wouldn't have had the support.

SPEAKER_01

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

So I think that's probably what I um have just loved working with you because you are so supportive for our industry and you are leading a great lot of bookkeepers. Uh, I'm really fortunate now to be part of the graduate program. Yeah. And it's so nice to sit now in a group of lifeline of women, because we seem to be all women and trying to find the, you know, the good in our clients and the industries we want to help and all of those sorts of areas. So it's yeah, it's been a great journey for the last couple of years. It's so you know, you can't, as a business owner, and especially in this industry, you know, you can't go home to your husband all the time and get the right advice, or you can't go to your friends because they don't know what you're doing every day and they don't really understand compliance. So again, to have someone that's in your corner that and you I know you don't technically know the space, like, but because you've worked in it with um, was it your sister-in-law? I think you said yeah, yeah. Yeah, because you worked in that space, but you did like the marketing and other areas and you bought the best out of that team, yeah, you're now doing it for all women in our industry. And I just think it's wonderful because that community-based um sort of business structure, I think is the future. Yes. If we don't think community, I think it's not all about wealth and profits. And a lot of women actually resonate with that too. We are community-minded naturally. That's um, and I think nurturing and and bookkeepers especially, and um, you know, that's where our we want to help all the time. And I see a lot of bookkeepers at the moment are really burnt out or they're um, you know, struggling. Um, I think don't underestimate the power of our industry because we are actually helping every small and medium business out there, and they need good bookkeepers right now because of now all the compliance. Like, don't even underestimate what we do is boring because it's not. And I don't see AI taking over our jobs. I think it's gonna change absolutely. But with the change I see with the AI now is that the numbers need to come through. Business owners need to be inside their numbers faster. We provide that bridge of getting the information into the financial systems faster. Yeah. And then, so then if you can then join with good accountants that you like to work together with and have good relationships, you can really then create an advisory team that supports the client for growth. And that's what has also just happened recently with one of my clients. He's actually grown substantially. Again, through your program, giving me the confidence to then, you know, go to the client and give them strategies to expand their business. Yeah, nice. The ramification is that I've ended up with more fees because he wanted more services. Great. So it's that slow. And I'm very passionate about our industry. I'm very passionate about teaching the next generation. I think there's a lot to of scope to uh learn and unpack. Um, so I encourage anyone that's thinking about bookkeeping or you're just starting out, don't think that being a leader at um, you know, 20 is what everyone is because they're not. Yeah. I was actually reading a stat recently that leadership roles actually on the average age is 42. I'm like, right. Yes. I'm actually in that here we are.

unknown

Here we are.

SPEAKER_00

I love it. I you know, I always kept thinking, oh, all these great leaders, they're like, you know, powerful, blah, blah, blah. But they actually don't learn their real leadership skills till they're 40, because they've learned their skill set or their, you know, whatever their industry skill set is. And then they actually become the leader later on because it just sort of develops. And I'm one of those. I've taken the business slowly, built it, built it, and now I can sort of see where the future is. And and I want to see a bright future for our industry. And um, I've been so lucky. My daughter has decided to now um, you know, join the business um last year. Yeah, it's um, so she's now coming through and she's decided to become an accountant, so she's gonna probably be highly um educated than me in that space. Like I love it. I I um have been trying to get my tax agent license, I just run out of time half the time. But it it's that to encourage now kids to enjoy our industry is where it's at. We need to have that next generation. Um, and they think differently to us. So we need to we need to really bridge that to figure out how do they tick and how do we get the best out of their skill sets and teach them the skill sets because they can't rely just on AI either.

SPEAKER_01

I love this. And you know, you and I have talked about this previously, and I love the positivity both you and I have about the younger generation coming through and embracing the different ways, ways that they think, because there's a real compliment there if you're open to listening to how they operate and what the way that they think, combined with the way we think, and together you can go forward. But I love also, Olivia, your confidence around where the industry is going with AI, because I know there's a lot of people out there going, you know, they're worried about their jobs, they're worried about their businesses holistically, but with specifically with our industry, they say, yeah, the lowest hanging fruit is the the these sort of industries, the accounting and bookkeeping and the things that they can seemingly AI easily. What gives you the confidence, if we can just dive into that? Because I think our audience would really love to, because you know, there I think there's an undercurrent of a bit of fear out there. And it's and I I have a belief the same as you, and perhaps for different reasons, but I'd love to know what you what gives you the confidence about the future and AI and that we've still got a place in the market.

SPEAKER_00

So I think where you we can see it, or well, I've been really um given an opportunity to see this firsthand, is that we're gonna see augmented AI slipping into a lot of industries.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And again, we're that bookkeeper, that the trusted advisor that sits at the forefront of our clients, because they're normally in their office, or if we're not in their office, we're remote. We're having conversations with the client regularly, more so than the accountant, right? So we're the closest to them. They're disrupted just like us about around AI. It's not just one way. Where I see the growth for our industry is that we still need to be a person that reviews the data as much as the AI could possibly do the payroll or interpret timesheets to payroll. Someone needs to still sit there and review that data to put a human behind the review process. Even for AP, you know, you get if you can automate like AP going in and then statements, well, someone still needs to check that all that data came across the AR the AP system to double check against the statement. So there's still going to be a need for someone to sit at that side of it. Again, as BAS agents, once again, we might even get to the system where it's done in auto-reconcile and do all these fancy things that we all think. But guess what? I've just had a system, it decided to pick general expenses. Well, we all know that that's the worst account if you're a bookkeeper to ever put anything to. So we needed a review process to make sure that the AI doesn't hallucinate and puts it to the wrong account. So again, we need that review process to sort of happen. But more importantly than anything else, I think the best part about our industry is we uh love being trusted advisors and that first point of contact with our clients. Yeah, and that soft skill and that conversational is still paramount, I think, to our industry because we do chat to them and we normally find out like talking to other bookies, we find out about some really intimate things around their family, yeah, their future goals, like all of these things. I mean, we even see most of the time, if you've got access to bank accounts and stuff, where they do their spending. So you get that intimate understanding of what ticks when they're still like I've had it personally, where you can see the mindset of the client going off the rails because they're gambling more, or you can see that they're pulling money out of the ATM more, or they go on a binge over Christmas, or whatever the thing. So you actually can see it in the numbers half the time before you actually go and actually talk to them. And it that trusted advisor is still so important, and that's what I love about where we sit as an industry, and we can provide that support, and that's not going away.

SPEAKER_01

And what's that I love that the way that you sort of package that up because the thing is with bookkeepers, traditionally it's it's a women sort of led business. And my passion is to help, as you know, help as many women be financially independent as possible. And if we're we've got that sort of more nurturing sort of um personality going in there and helping those clients, if they do go through a tricky time, yes, the bookkeeping's there, but to have that nurturing sort of conversation where they can feel like, oh, they've got somebody that's got my ear and I can feel more nurtured through that. The combination of having the the numbers um information to be able to help them around the numbers and that nurturing is a beautiful little package to be able to help business clients through tricky times. And that's what makes it a lot more, I guess, sticky, but also to give this industry a lot longer to survive if if AI is gonna take over. And I my personal belief is the AI will just take away the boring stuff that I agree. A lot of the a lot of the I know there's a lot of bookkeepers out there, I know, that love the compliance and they love that, and that's okay if you like that. But at some point, and we'd all be very rich people if we knew when, but at some point that's gonna get less and less, and and building more and more of the skills around the communication to help business clients through those tricky times and to give them information that's gonna help them with their business more and more, I think, is what's what's gonna be our next step as it sort of gets more and more automated.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely. Yes, and it and it and I think one thing too is if you're you know just yourself a sorpreneur and you're just doing your little bookkeeping, that's okay. You know, you don't have to be like me and now building a team of 18. If you're happy doing that, be happy doing that. But if you're not and you're wanting to grow and you're wanting, then that advisory side, pick something. But even more than that, I think for me, I'm seeing it more and more. We need to become really good at an industry. So if there's an industry that you love or are passionate about and lights you up, focus on it. Yeah. Because I know for myself, if I could just look after one sector of the market, I think it would make my job a lot easier. I wouldn't have the resistance of trying to learn multiple software software systems and add ons and all these sorts of things. Um, but I think that's also a great thing. Like if you know that and you can then brand that out and market that out to the You know, bigger community, then you become the power person of our industry for whatever industry that is. Do you know what I mean? It aligns more. Like, and then I know for myself, if I'm that bookkeeper and I get a referral and I'm like, you know what, you need to talk to that person. And I've done that even within our group. Like, yes, you know, different industries. I go, well, I'm not doing that type of bookkeeping. That's not my wheelhouse. But if you speak to this bookkeeper, they're great at this. And they know the industry back to front. They know the people inside it. They know how you know the majority of those people tick. That again is really powerful for our industry because you become really specialized and then the money will come. If you don't underestimate that too. If you are smaller and you like a bit broad range or you live in a like regional area, sure, you might have to then have multiple industries because you're in a smaller community versus me in a city where I've got a lot more aspects. Well, then I can actually niche down more into an industry. I get that too. But that's what I mean. I think we've still got at least, oh, I I don't see our industry going away, to be quite. As I said, I think it's just gonna just change and morph. And if you're willing to let it change and morph, then it's gonna be no-brainer. You're gonna have lots of work.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and you're gonna ride that. That's the thing. And I know, Olivia, there are people out there listening to you right now. You you are you come across very dynamic, and obviously you're fast, you're direct, you're very driven around what your goals are. And look, it's but to me, it's I love that. I just love that energy and that drive and that, but I know that that can be kind of for people that hear that, it's like, oh man, you've got all your ducks in a row and you know exactly what you're doing. And and I I get that because I hear that for me as well. And it's like, oh, if you knew my ducks are all over the place at the moment, I haven't got always my ducks. I try to have my little ducks in a row, but it's not always, and it hasn't always been like that either. So knowing that this is your personality and who you are, and you're direct and you're driven and what have you, and we know that that comes with all the things that are not that as well. How has this helped you build your business and where did it start creating challenges for you before when you went when you were trying to build the business before? How has this helped you get through that?

SPEAKER_00

Um, so I'm gonna touch on uh for those people that don't know it, um, we do a a thing in our coaching called disk, so disc profiling. So anyone that understands discs, I'm a very high D, which is not normally like most bookkeepers. A lot of new bookkeepers would be S's and C's. So I've always, yes, I have been very driven. Um, I don't know if my team half the time go, oh, here she goes again with another on a little tangent over here or over there. But to say that I I my team is everything to me. And um I really have a fantastic, fantastic core team. Um, I've been very, very fortunate to have Amanda that's been with me now for 11 years. Wow, yeah. Um, and uh Raquel is also now coming up to like eight years.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um, and so I think yes, I am driven, yes, but they obviously something must be uh happening here, but I have always looked at it that I actually work for them. It's a Gary, uh Gary V sort of talks about it. If anyone knows Gary V. I really resonate with what he says about being a leader is actually working for your team in the sense of don't let the ego get into like your head and that work with the team, make it a team environment. And I've always done that. We and now we, you know, we've actually always done this. We've had cultural days when the off waters, I suppose, like September is a quieter month for us, and March is a quieter month. Yeah, we try and do some really cool bonding days, and we've made like booby cups, and we've done we're about to go to make a crazy vase um next month. How cool. So, yeah. So And you did an escape room one time?

SPEAKER_01

Yes, yeah, you didn't.

SPEAKER_00

That actually that was yeah, that was early in the thing. We had the two to actually get two lots of teams of bookkeepers and put them in an escape room. It surprised me too. Is that right? Because they're so driven to detail, right? So that was like a competition. I bought a competition, and they needed to achieve it. So it's funny like that because I you know, you see when you do that side of it too, you see the different personalities and the people part that you know sometimes you sort of miss or um yeah. So that's been exciting to see how that sort of developed and changed as well. So, and now that even with the mix of 18 now, it you know, it's making sure everyone feels like loved and supported through their growth. And I think that's the other thing I really encourage my team to um do professional development. So, um, whether that be through structured things like the accounting and um business expo in Sydney, or we do the summit for I'm very um involved in ICB. I've chosen that as my sort of association to align with. Um, I do those sorts of like when there's you know Matthew Addison and his little um webinars or Rald Marshall with his podcast. Yeah. Involve the team in learning those sorts of you know informational parts to sort of keep on top of the changes too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Which is happening very quickly, aren't they? Uh within our industry. So you know, Olivia, a lot of um bookkeepers say to me, usually one-on-one quietly, that like, I just don't feel like a leader, Sharon. Like I don't sort of put myself into that leadership sort of hat. And I I don't know if many of us sort of think that we're leaders. We kind of it sort of happens, you know, we put ourselves up for the, you know, for some of the more trickier things sometimes and see how we go, but we're not really sure. How have you seen your leadership journey within um the your business? And did you see yourself as a leader to begin with?

SPEAKER_00

No, I didn't see myself as a leader um at all. Um, but at the same time, I think I've always been curious, inquisitive, looking for the extra X factor. Yes. I've always loved reading. I'm probably like you. I read a lot of like every Christmas the husband just groans into another, you know, self-help book. Um I love it. And and next to my bed, there's always two or three that I'm you know starting to get through. Um, I've always been that sort of person. So I've wanted, I've always strived um to always better myself, I suppose. And I don't expect that from other people. It's just a personal, that's a personal journey for me. I I've strived to always think ahead, what's changing, like those things. So then when I decided to build Blue Gecko as it formerly was and now Gecko Cloud Solution, I've always taken that to go, I'm actually looking after other people. I mean, back when it was only a team of three, versus now I've got I want to look after those people. I'm providing a support network for them, and someone has to show, like be that leader, I suppose. And I've oh yeah, I've taken that responsibility a lot deeply, probably, than most even see outwardly of me as well. Like I take that really personally. So, you know, I've even in the team, we've gone through some personal things along the way. Like, there's been some big adverse things that have happened in our team, and I've always then supported them through it. I'll I'll allow my team to have a holiday before I have a holiday sort of thing. And um, so yeah, I think it's that people element, and and I think that's probably one of the things also, if you're going to start adding and growing a team, like if you've got that piece in you that goes, Oh, I want to develop a team, take the lead because it's through that experience you will learn something from that other person that you, you know, you would never have known otherwise, whether that's a value set or a cultural set or whatever it is. Um, that's the fascinating part, I suppose, of growing a team because you get to meet other people and work with them every day and see how they tick. And yeah, so and don't be hard on yourself either, like as a leader, like I don't know it all. No one knows the real playbook. That's yeah, it's just naturally starts to happen. But if you're curious and you want to do that, then I really highly suggest reading those leadership type books, or because that again comes back to mindset. It gets your mindset to actually understand how you can get the best out of the team or get the best out of the outcome, or even the clients. I mean, take your hat off of having a big team, even if you, as I said, you're you're your own bookkeeper and you have your own clients. Yeah, same thing. They come at you with all sorts of questions. You're a leader to them. So you're actually probably already in the leadership role. It's just you're not with your own team, you're actually with all your clients.

SPEAKER_01

And that's a that's a really, really good message, Olivia, because I think, you know, we're a similar sort of age. You grow up and you sort of look up at bosses and things like that and think, oh, that's a leader. That you know, they they sound like they know what they're talking about and they come across like they know what they're talking about, and you you feel a bit like, oh, well, I'm not that. But when you mentioned that before about, you know, you looked at you you took a leaf out of Gary V's book and you're like, okay, you know, I'm working for you. That that that's you've got your ego intact. You've got, you can see that if you take that position, you're gonna help them, you're gonna help yourself grow as well by doing it like that, because your ego's in check. You you know that you doing that's gonna help grow your business, it's gonna help grow them, and they're gonna, it's all gonna be a lot more cohesive. I feel like that leadership style and the way that bookkeepers are is the sort of leaders we need in the world. It's the nurturing and the that that kind of ego in check. And I don't know about you, but I've had some bosses that just is the exact opposite of that. And it's just not it's not nice to be around. And and I feel like the filter I come across come the filter I see with leaders is that kind of they know it and they've like they're strong and they're this and they're that, not that kind of like the way that you're explaining it. And it's just that's why I think bookkeepers are the real leaders. So if you think you're not a leader, you're a leader, like already, already, by who you are, by who you are, and as I said, the clients that you're serving.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, like you've gone into a nurturing sort of thing to help people, like we're innately want to help the client succeed, whether it's to get a dollar in their bank account or have a tax account so they make sure they pay their bats, or hey, stop spending on the drawings, or guess what, profit doesn't equal cash flow, whatever the conversation is. Like we we we do it normally, and I that's the softness that I love about bookkeepers because it's that softness that you they come in and they just talk through it and they really underestimate the value that they're giving that client.

SPEAKER_01

You might have to be careful, Olivia. You'll get some more bookkeepers knocking on your door wanting to come and work with you.

SPEAKER_02

Like that she sounds like a god chick, I'll come work with her.

SPEAKER_00

That's awesome. I don't mind, by the way. Just support.

SPEAKER_01

I love it.

SPEAKER_00

All right, um leader, leaders that have that nurturing, don't underestimate that skill set because that's exactly what the future needs. We need nurturing leaders because yeah, because people uh there's so much going on that they need that nurturing sort of side. So don't don't underestimate that leadership style.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and and I think a lot of our audience will love hearing that because I think a lot of the times there's that feeling of like, oh no, I'm not that, but yes, you are already. And then just you can work on that and and build it and grow it. So was there a time when you realized the business uh did not just need more doing? So when you were working um before we worked together, it needed a different level of leadership from you. Was there a change either before or during when we were working together where you started seeing the different sort of I guess role from you for as a leader?

SPEAKER_00

That would be an absolute yes. An absolute yes. I will guarantee if again, if you're growing a team, I would, if you're grinding like I was, because I grinded, man, there was some weeks, months, even years that I've put some massive hours into this business to grow it. And stuck in compliance deadlines, trying to get that last minute bass done at the midnight of the stroke to try and get it lodged. Yeah, that is definitely how it was. I was very technically inside the business trying to get that. So I think again, through your program, teaching the strategies of those, you know, structured sort of coaching sessions and things gave me the confidence and the strength to go, actually, I do need a default diary because you talk about default diaries a lot. I know. I know. But again, it's a really tangible strategy to then plan out your week and go, actually, I need to plan out time to work on the business, not in it.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And if I hadn't have done that, I wouldn't be sitting where I am today. I get like guarantee, I would not have been because you need to, if you want to grow a big team, I have also learned that you need to then allocate time to be working on the actual business that you're working on rather than the technical weeds of doing the actual compliance. And that's only changed since I would even say it's been a slow transition. Don't think I've just changed automatically it's been a slow transition.

SPEAKER_01

I'm gonna ask you more questions on this because I know the audience will be going, right? Let's let's hear a bit more about that.

SPEAKER_00

So the transition was, yeah, it was a slow transition of going, okay, I'm going to change the structure of my team and I'm going to empower a bass agent to become the next leader. So now I went, I I sort of had one person sort of championing that first. I found that I needed two two ICs. I'm doing it a little bit different. I've now got two two ICs. They head up, then team of bookkeepers. I've then got my next bass agent coming along. She is now head, I've given like slowly letting her go through it, transitioning her now to be a team leader. So she's going to have bookkeepers underneath her. And I'm just going to keep probably replicating because it's working. I might change my mind, who knows? But I can see it working. I then encourage those team leaders to take on different learnings now, too, because they're now leading bookkeepers. And so I've sort of done it that way. Has it been an easy transition? Absolutely not. Again, like the audience. Um, they sit there going, Oh, I can't do that. I I can't look after the team. And I'm like, just do what you already do. You're already nurturing them. You you chat at the you know, coffee machine, or you know, when we're at cultural days, you want to, you know, lead the little group because you know, you're gonna win the escape room sort of thing. Um, so I just found that it was just I mean, I'm empowering the team members basically to grow too, not just yeah, me. Doing your business. Yeah. Yeah. I want them to be part of it. I want them to grow with me and to grow the industry. So I know even within my dynamics of my team, Amanda is so great at payroll, like she is a whiz at payroll. She knows that so well. So all of us collectively lean on her when we've got she's champion in that space. Yeah. Whereas Raquel is fantastic at understanding like financial reports because she's actually done a degree in accounting, she just didn't want to be accountant. So she's got that depth of understanding for PLs and balance sheets. So, you know, as a team, we then collectively go, Hey, what do you do in this situation? Or does this look right? Or especially if we're getting a cleanup file, we'll go, what the have they created here? How do we then make that work? So I again, I think if you're going to grow a team, find what ticks for them. And again, have it in, you know, we do the cultural planner, we do the reviews, we're using a lot of the coaching stuff. Materials, yeah. Yeah, materials, I'm using it day to day in the business. Yeah. And, you know, I sit down and I discuss that with the team members. So they feel like they're growing too. And where do where's their heart and their soul and um what they want to be, what lights them up, I suppose, too, in their job. Like, where's their job satisfaction? And then hone in on that and develop that out. And that's what I've just done with my team. And and a lot of them, like, oh, you know, some of them I'll go to them after they've done a few years with me, going, you know what, you can now step up and do you want to be a bass agent? And they're like, Oh, a bass agent, what? I'm like, Yeah, let's go. You know, do you want it? Do you want your license?

SPEAKER_01

So I yeah, I encourage it sort of for them to grow and learn and to develop it with under your sort of leadership, which is awesome. Yeah. So I know, or step back to when you were talking about the default day, and you know, like you've got to make time to work on the business. And I know there's a lot of bookkeepers out there that are going, yeah, you don't see my week. I've got, I'm just working heaps of hours. I haven't had a holiday for however long. I'm working like nights, weekends, sometimes I've got all these balls in the air, and you're telling me to take two or three hours out a week to work on the business. Like, so there's that question I want I if you can address like so in your mind, like it's like, well, where do you how do you do that? And then also what's the thinking behind the want to to set your business upright? Because I think this is a there's a big, there's there's almost like two parts to this. It's like, yeah, I know what I have to do, I know I have to systemize, I know I have to hire and delegate some of the work, and I have to have all my ducks in a row. Number one, where do you get the time to do it? Number two, where do you get the even the want to do it to go? Because you I know a lot of bookkeepers start to do it and they go, Oh, look, it's just as easy for me to do it myself because I'm just explaining everything to them, and it just feels like I'm just adding work when I've got a bookkeeper to do, I've got to explain everything to them. So, how have you thought through this, Olivia, in a way that's got you to 18 or 15 bookkeepers and three HR managers?

SPEAKER_00

Really great question. Because I think I ended up joining Pure Bookkeeping for a bit and utilized a lot of that. Um again, that is structured um systems to be able to scale. So I utilized the checklists and everything. Did I continue with pure workflow? No, I didn't. But the foundational part of how that was structured, I utilized that. I went myself on a different app stack. Um, just for the people out there, my app stack is very heavy. I I'm now running um ignition, flows into Zero Practice Manager, flows into FYI docs, and I have automated a lot of tasks and automations and workflows um in FYI docs. Um, and that's not for everyone. I'm not saying go out and get this, you know, UBU app sack. That's not what I'm saying. Again, if you're wanting to strategize to then get larger, you need to systemize. Now, checklists, we again, I think most bookkeepers love checklists. So for me, it was a normal progression to have a nice checklist that they could tick off. And now, ICB, ABN, all of them have fantastic resources. If you don't have the money, but you have the association membership, tap into them. They've built it. Yeah, I mean, you don't necessarily need a massive system, just start slow. Go, okay, this is how I do my bath. All right. Write it out. Or if you don't want to write it out, there's AI now, you can talk to it and tell AI to summarize it for you. I mean, gosh, I had to write it out and then type it out, and then you know, now you can technically tell AI and it does it for you. Yeah. Um, so systemizing is is definitely the way. And I did that actually a lot earlier than we even joined forces. I knew that that to be able to just start growing, it had to happen. And I was finding that there was just like a disconnect between the work being done, like so getting the BASES done and then reviews. So I had to sort of focus on getting, okay, how do I do a process? And I sat with my team too and said, okay, how do you want to see this done? So again, we're only three or four at that stage, and we all together went through in a September, I think it was, and said, what do we all do that's the same? Right. We all reconcile bank accounts. Okay, well, that's the first step. What do we do next? Oh, we check this, the ATO ICA account. Okay, well, that goes in the list. Okay, what's the next thing? Oh, we check AP and AR against the ledger. All right, we'll write that down. All right, how do we? That's how we started, and we just then built on it. So I broke it down into picking a task. It went from that to then, okay, how do we do a IAS?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So then we then documented that out. Yeah. And I just incrementally just started to document it. And then I've just basically supercharged it by putting those tasks straight in FYI and then created an automation. And now we've got automations for everything because that's just more efficient. That means now because we're growing, we can then the bookkeepers get their tasks and they can then follow those tasks. Is it changing? Absolutely. It is not one stop shop. That's it. And that's again that default diary. I have to come back to it because with Payday Super, everything changed. So we had to then re-jig all the automations. We had to rejig how that was going to work. We had to come up with a plan of even educating all our clients around that. So I had to focus again two hours, had to be back on the business to know what my key things we have to achieve to then flow that into the team. So then I could then develop that out to make sure.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, to make sure that we won. And we did by the end of June, we had 99% of all clients on payday super already. Woohoo! Wow. So, but again, if it wasn't for the people and the systems, it wouldn't have happened.

SPEAKER_01

It happened. Yeah. Yeah. That's impressive.

SPEAKER_00

That's sort of how I've sort of delegated the work, I suppose. I do it as a team thing. Like we have Team Tuesday where we have um our staff meeting now, and I want ideas, I want like fresh things, and we bring that all to the table. But if we've got like a project, we'll collectively work together. And now because the team's a bit bigger, I obviously have my team leaders. We do that first, then we take it to the bigger team and go, okay, does this work? Does this look like a system we could all follow? And then we get feedback. And I take constructive feedback. Like that's how we learn. So but that's how I broke it down and how I've sort of developed it. But it's not an instant thing. Like, as I said, if you're sitting there going, Oh, is that how you did it? Well, break it, make it smaller, little pieces. But consistency wins the race. If you lock in two hours to work on your business, now if you can't do that because you're right, I know, I mean, we're 30th of July right now. I know there's deadlines everywhere. I get it. So start with an hour.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And it could be just sitting down going, where do I want to see the next 90 days? Pick one goal. Don't even go too big. Pick one goal. Yeah. Strategize that, set it, make sure you spend your hour every week on it. Now, if you're a morning person like me, lock it into your morning. But if you're a night person like Amanda, she loves her afternoons, lock it into the afternoon. Yeah. Pick what suits you. And we're not all the same. But do it. Don't. And if you say, oh, I missed it last week, well, that's fine. Miss one, but don't miss two weeks in a row, because then it won't get done.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah, that's great advice. Olivia, you keep consistently, there's a thread with you where you keep saying, I I I want the feedback. I like you you work in. And again, for those who of you who don't know disc, disc Olivia's a high D. That's dominant. Short, sharp, to the point, get it done. A lot of D's don't welcome that. Like they they'd rather like get out of my way, I'll get it done because I'll get it done quicker. And like you'll you do welcome that, which is it's it's a real credit to yourself because it that wouldn't, I'm guessing, come overly naturally to you. So you've you've got to sit back and let other people talk and hear their opinions and things as well, which is, you know, when you when you're like, I know what it's like when you're like you when you're fast and you go, because I'm like that, it's like get out of my way. I want to go, like I can do it faster. Come on. And so there's a lot of patience, there's a lot of respect I can hear that you've got for your your not only your bookkeepers, but your clients. And the way that you, the way that you see this is very, very um the growth that you've gone through to see it like that is really impressive. And you've mentioned you've reading books and you like you learn from your things that happen and you you readjust. And that's that's the whole game. It's all the whole game is to listen, learn, read, understand, adjust, not take it all too personally, because I always call it this is a game. You've got to treat it like a game because if you take it too seriously, you it's just not a it's not good to take it all too seriously, I don't think, because you can get too tied up in it a little bit. So there's a whole bunch of other stuff you've said too. I've got to tell you with with the We're probably running out of time, too. I know. But there's look, I know you are you quickly, you quickly mentioned it, and I know the audience were like, what's it? They're writing out, what's that app stack she's got now? And if you want to know Olivia's App Stack, she's actually presented it to the graduate team on a sl on a PowerPoint, she's got it all set out, she knows exactly what she's doing. And my point is with that, guys, is this doesn't happen by accident. You've been very deliberate about this, Olivia. The thing that I hear constantly from bookkeepers is like, yeah, well, that's expensive, and that's expensive. You hear how much that app is, and that app is. To me, if you're going to build a business and you're serious about you know building it, having a team and making some good money from this, and and you're gonna be in the game a long time, set it up with the apps, spend the money. And quite often, you know, we don't have a lot of other expenses, and so a lot of you would be working from home. So it's okay to spend the money. Obviously, you've got to learn to make the money, and that's where you're not waiting just for referrals. You've got to learn how to sell, say, sell and market and things like that to be able to pay for these things. But don't be stingy on the apps, I say, because you know, you've got that app stack that's just beautiful, Olivia. And I'm sure that it serves you, it serves your clients, it serves your bookkeepers that are working in it, and it's just it's a no-brainer to do it. I you need the tools, like a a mechanic can't fix your car without the tools.

SPEAKER_00

And absolutely, that's exactly right. That's how you've got to look at it. A mechanic can't do that. A carbiner needs really quality, good quality drills and things like that. A doctor needs a good stethoscope and all the things that he needs or her she needs. Um, that's what you for us in our industry, it is apps. And if you don't utilize the apps, then you're going to struggle to scale, basically. I think that's probably the biggest thing.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Is my app set the best? Probably not. I'm sure it's like with augmented AI now. I actually have had a meeting with a big competitive bookkeeping firm just recently, and they're what they've built is just like amazing. Like, I want their stuff because it's just like, whoa, blew my mind. But um, at the same time, start small. Like, again, what's your biggest pain point? And like this is even finding out from clients, what's their biggest pain point? So put it in again, retrospect into your own head and go, what's my biggest pain point? I really hate doing engagements. Well, then okay, go to market and go and find the best engagement software that you want to put into your like into your thing because you don't like doing that. Yeah, for me, it was ignition. I could set it up and literally now to do an engagement with the full template with a beautiful presentation and a nice brochure, and I can do a little video. I can punch them out now in next to nothing. And I can actually still be on the phone telling them, hey, it's gonna cost you this per month, this is your fees, da-da-da-da. You know, I've got to that point. Um, so it then puts you don't have to have that awful conversation, like, oh, I'm doing hourly rate, or I'm just that's gone.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_00

And again, for those ones out there, I was on alley rate. We all were. Yes. That's a change. And that is also the future. It is an outcome-based pricing, not an hourly rate, guys. Come on, we need to change this. It's not hourly rate anymore, it's an outcome-based. We bring value to our clients. What are you giving them an outcome? You're making sure their basses are lodged on time every time. That's an outcome. Price it. Yeah, price it right too.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And there's again, like you've got VAs coming out for like $9 an hour and all. Stop worrying about the noise of that. Tone in on yourself. Know you're right, price your market. Find out what the account. This is the big thing I learned, right? I basically rang accountancy firms. Now, if you don't like ringing accounting firms, but you've got another team member that might be like a bit more confident in that, get them to ring them. Find out what they're charging for their bookkeeping rate. It's not, it's not $75. No, it's not. And it shouldn't be either. No. We're undervaluing if we're doing that too. Yeah. For uh just not for just our whole industry. We need we're we're having we're under QMS now. We're under all of this change as well. Like the accountants are under Taza. We need to price ourselves right. So find out from the accountants in your local area. Because as I said, prices in Sydney, Melbourne might be different to Brisbane, to sitting out in you know, Burke Town or you know, up north in Queensland.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So, and again, find out what that more than likely the accountants, if you've got good relationships, they'll tell you what they're charging. And I tell you what, it is a lot more than what we're charging, I can assure you. It is now, even if you drop just $10 because you're like, oh my god, that's a lot of money. Please do it. Yes, we need to be charging correctly. We are providing a very professional service. And if you are a BASS agent as of 2026, you have to comply with QMS and you have to comply with all our CPD requirements. You are a professional by and we are like nurses and doctors. The accountants are the doctors, we are the nurses as bookkeepers. See ourselves, we have to bring ourselves up to be charging what we're we're bringing a specialty. Our special jam is bookkeeping, compliance, fat, payroll, cash flow, whatever you're doing, that's our special source. Yeah. Don't undervalue it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, I love it, Olivia. Um, two more questions. Uh, how have you got the confidence to delegate work? How did you get that confidence to believe that it's going to be done the way you want it done?

SPEAKER_00

Um slowly. Yeah. Um pick that team member. As I said, Amanda came onto my team quite a long time ago. She was great at payroll. Okay, well, actually, she's better than payroll than me, so she can have the payroll client sort of thing. That was sort of quite an easy one. Second one was okay, I know what's expected now. You know, I again we're all in industry. Utilize those, was I trained them to be BAS agents too. So the three of us were sort of like going through at that stage. I had another uh girl named Jill. We knew that we had to give good quality care to our clients. We built a system to say, okay, that's what's expected for GST, blah, blah, blah. I think we just sat together and then we went, okay, for me, then it was like I was doing a lot of the Basses. I then said, you know what? You can review my work. And then when you create a work, I'll review it. And I then swapped it. So they do a BASS and I would review it that way. And then that actually aligned them with QMS when it came up to a QMS because we were already sort of doing it. And then um, we never because if you're in the file, sometimes you just can overlook something because you're in it, right? It's like you like when you're writing something and writing it, writing around, you just repeat yourself. It's similar, so it that's how we sort of delegated it that way. I was still doing a lot, don't underestimate, I was still doing a lot of Basses. Amanda was reviewing my work, she was doing a lot of Basses, I was reviewing her work. Then slowly, as I've given them the power to become, you know, two ICs, and then again, I've chosen to have two two ICs. Yeah, they now review their team's work. The Bass agents that are coming through now learn. So now the team leader reviews their Basses, but then we roll reverse. So if Raquel's preparing a BAS and the BASS agent now wants to learn to be, they review Raquel's work. Yeah, exactly. So start learning it, and then that's how we sort of again delegated.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you pass that down. So what you did with them before, now they're doing it with a new team member.

SPEAKER_00

So you're not even a part of that, or I still have look, we've got some complicated files that need that review work at that next level. Yeah. Um, I haven't been in my industry for 20 years to not have that experience. So when we have really hard, especially cleanups when they're come off a uh you would know if you're out there, bad accountants have done bad just key work, or they've put a junior account on it that actually doesn't know bookkeeping at all. Bookkeeping, yeah. And you get that shitty file and you've got you know a couple of years of cleanup, they're a bit more complicated. Yeah. So they might do the data entry and then I'll review it because I have to go through with a fine-tooth comb. Um, or but at the same time, Amanda and Raquel over the years have become that good that I can pretty much trust them to do it and know that it's the same sort of work. And again, we collectively work as a team, we banter off each other and we work together to work it out. And but that's how I've slowly built the team to not have all that work on me is yes, yeah. We swapped it, and that's how we then got better and better.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's awesome. Right, the last question for those bookkeepers, for those bookkeepers listening out there who are exhausted, not making enough money, over responsible, and quietly thinking, you know what, I don't know, like a QMS, all of this new stuff, I might be just about done. What would you want him or her to know?

SPEAKER_00

Don't give up. Don't give up. Don't give up. Um I think look, I don't know what your personal journey is. I mean, everyone has different ones, but if you're really down and out, maybe take some time out. Like get through July, August. I get it. Now is not the time. But September, like once the basses are done, there's normally a week between like your 25th of August and I know the 1st of October because we don't have anything for a few. Take that time, book it now, like just even two days, one day, a weekend, if you're not having even weekends off. Take that day to just reflect. Work out do you still want to be in this fantastic industry? And if you do, then work out do you want to be leading a team or do we want to be part of a team? Because there are some bookkeepers out there that want to grow like myself. There's quite a few now in the industry that are, you know, building some fantastic teams. I I know like Diverse is out there and Rebecca Buchanan, I think it's know your numbers. Yeah, you know, there are teams out there that are wanting great quality bookkeepers. So if you don't want to grow your team or you're just not doing that, go work for one. I've got a few fantastic bookkeepers now that work for one. Don't feel that you're on your own. Um, the other thing is that join groups, whether that be through you, ABN, ICB. Yeah. You talk about strategic alliances. Even if you're not strategic alliances out to the wider community, if you're not up to that yet, join something that's in your own industry and start hearing how they're going. You're not alone. I that I think that's probably the thing. The end of the day, even pick up the phone, you can Google me, I'll listen to your story. Because I was there two years ago. Like, I get it. Like it's hard slog. Yeah, it's not an easy, and those compliance deadlines are just ferocious. Like they're just exhausting. And I think because the government's put so much pressure on those now, especially now, even with payday super. I know a lot of bookkeepers are like, payroll's not my jam anymore, because there's you have to now do super on payday. Guess what? Christmas is gonna be an interesting time. I don't know how that's gonna work. We used to all be able to like process them well before Christmas. Before, yeah, but if they're in the bank for future dates, guess what? Payday super is payday super. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So there's changes in that, I think that yeah, if you're sit back, reflect, and see what you want to do, but don't don't give up. There's hope. There's hope.

SPEAKER_01

And you know, the industry's growing and changing, and uh even though I know a lot of the changes is you know, with the you know, QMS and all that sort of stuff, it's it's really just bringing our industry. I don't know. You hear what how they do things in America, and it's just like there's none of this, there's none of these regulations and things like we have here. And yeah, I'm I'm really proud of our our industry and how we do things and our level of professionalism. And it's you know, it's a fantastic industry to be a part of. And you know, finding the way through, if you do feel overwhelmed and exhausted, there's always help, as you said, with the industries, um, ABN, ICB. We're both part of ICB, and we'll be down there October at the end of end of October for their conference. And we're all really excited about being being a part of that. But there is help out there, and that's the thing. To you don't, you're not, you don't have to be stuck, you don't have to be think that you're by yourself. There's so much out there that you can um have access to to help you through.

SPEAKER_00

So yeah, and I mean, you know, you you always advocate for our industry too, because you're a coach in our industry, so you know, like call Sharon, like she'll answer your call. Like, you know, like if you're really getting stuck to sort of change your mindset or you're just in a front. Or as I said, if you just want to chat to a fellow bookkeeper, hey, my phone is on, give me a call, I'll give you a call back, we can have a chat, and and you know, and I again I was really fortunate to be invited to a DEX conference recently up the sunny coast, and I met a couple of other bookkeepers and they were talking about how close their friendship were. I was like, wow, these guys are really like best friends. It was through COVID, it was actually those catch-ups that ICB and and other groups did at COVID time when we're all in the thick of it. They made some really trusting friendships in our own industry. So that's the other thing. I think our industry has some fantastic people in it that want to the Rob Marshalls and the Matthew Addison's, they might be a higher level, but they just want to be our friend too, you know?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and good souls, hey, great souls. Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_00

And they they put the hours in to help us too.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, yeah, definitely. Um, just a little plug for my practice by design method I run um every quarter. The next one's coming up on the 30th of November through to the 4th of December. It's an hour to an hour and a half every day, and it goes through how to design a practice essentially and what things are needed with as part of that. And it gives you that understanding um of what you what steps you need to take to be able to design the practice um that's gonna serve you and and give you your time back and money that you want to make. So, Olivia, this conversation's been absolutely fantastic. I know people out there will just be buzzing now, hearing your journey and what you've expected. You you seriously, you have you have done so well, and it's it's it's a credit to yourself. You you push through some uh massive like barriers around time and and and you know, the the amount of balls that you're juggling. And I know now you're doing some incredible things out there. You we talked about last week in the graduates, you know, you deserve a seat at the table, and this the tables that you're getting in into and sitting down at tables that are just incredible out there. And I I'm just blown away by what you've done. It's it's it's a real credit to yourself and congratulations. It's just been so much fun working with you.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you so much, Sharon. It's been an absolute pleasure being on here and being asked, actually.

SPEAKER_01

I was I was like, Well, we'll have to get you back again to hear what your next thing is. I don't Olivia doesn't sit still for long, so we'll just want to see how see where you're at in six months' time, we'll get you back.

SPEAKER_00

I keep changing and pivoting and keep moving forward, but um, yeah, excited for the future of our industry. And yeah, don't don't hang up your boots, please. More great bookkeepers out there to just keep moving forward and and advocating for the little client that's that small or medium business here in Australia. If we don't have those small and business small and medium businesses, we don't have Australia. Yeah, exactly. And if we don't have little bookkeepers helping those little businesses, we don't have Australia.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, exactly. Yes, exactly. Small to medium businesses, we need to keep the machine going. So it's great. Exactly. Fantastic. Thank you so much. Really appreciate your time, Olivia. See ya. See ya. Bye.