Africa's Internet Part 1: Who's in Control? with CEO Fiona Asonga

Tech Talk Africa – Episode 1: Who Owns Our Internet?

Guest: Fiona Asonga, the Chief Executive Officer of a non-governmental, not-for-profit Technology Service Providers Association of Kenya (TESPOK)

In this debut episode of Tech Talk Africa, host Stella Gichuhi and guest Fiona dive deep into the unfolding AFRINIC situation and explore its ripple effects across businesses, research institutions, and society at large. 

From questions of governance and accountability to the broader issue of digital sovereignty, this discussion unpacks why the ownership and control of Africa’s internet infrastructure matters now more than ever.

Whether you’re a policymaker, business leader, or everyday internet user, this episode shines a light on the high-stakes challenges—and opportunities—shaping Africa’s digital future.

Tune in to Tech Talk Africa E01 and join the conversation that’s defining the future of connectivity across the continent.

Credits
Host: 

• Stella Gichuhi

Producer: 

• James Njoroge

Executive Producers:

• Harry Hare
• Agutu Dan

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:03

I know we were taking this back a little bit, but who dropped the ball?

SPEAKER_01 0:07

We dropped the ball. We have to take ownership and agree we drop the ball. There are countries where the people in those countries have never benefited from the minerals and resources that have been bathed from our motherland.

SPEAKER_00 0:25

You mean a total blackout?

SPEAKER_01 0:27

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

A total internet blackout.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

Who owns Africa's internet and who benefits most when control is compromised? With over 600 million Africans now online and that number rapidly rising, the question of who controls Africa's internet infrastructure grows more urgent every day. The internet is now fundamentally shaping our financial systems, governance structures, education, healthcare, everything. Yet even as Africa's digital participation soars, the continent risks ceding control of this critical digital infrastructure to external entities. Could Africa once again find itself trading sovereignty for external promises? Reminiscent of the choices our forefathers made during the colonial era. Welcome to Tech Talk Africa, where we move beyond the headlines to critically examine not just who is shaping our continent's digital future, but how, why, and for whose benefit? We unpack the forces, policies, and interests driving Africa's tech landscape, ensuring you're informed about the deeper dynamics at play. I'm your host, Stella Gishuhi. Today we focus on Afrinik, the African Network Information Center. While Afrinik remains mostly visible to everyday internet users, it plays a critical role in allocating internet resources across the continent. Its recent governance challenges could expose Africa's digital infrastructure to external influence, potentially creating conditions, again reminiscent of historical colonial exploitation. Though this is not yet the reality, it's an urgent risk. Joining me today is my friend, my mentor, Fiona Asonga. She's the CEO of Testbook, the Technology Service Providers of Kenya, and a respected voice advocating for ICT sovereignty in Africa. Thank you, Fiona.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

Thank you so much, Stella, for having me.

SPEAKER_00 2:28

Oh, it's an absolute pleasure. You know, every time we sit together, we're always talking about what's happening in the tech scene, how can we, you know, champion it, just not just for Kenya, but across the continent. Now, before we get into the meat of the discussion, just to clarify, what exactly is Afrinik and why is its autonomy crucial to avoiding digital neocolonialism on the continent?

SPEAKER_01 2:55

Basically, like you've said in the introduction, AfricNIC is the African Internet Registry. But what does this registry do for us? This registry is responsible for the management and distribution of internet numbering resources, which are the IP address spaces and the autonomous system numbers. So we are familiar with IPv6 in our conversations. That is one of the versions of the IP numbering resources that are managed by Afrinik. There is IPv4, there is IPv6. Then we've got what we call the AirSense. A lot of technical people talk about AirSense, which is the autonomous system numbers. And this service is offered for the entire region, the whole of Africa. So we have one registry where we do this. Globally, there are other registries, so in total, making five registries. We've got LACNIC for Latin America, Erin for North America, RIPE NCC for the European region, and then Epinic for the Asian and Pacific regions. Then Africa and the Indian Ocean Islands have got Afrinic. Those are the five registries that exist. And all these registries then come together under the number resource organization, which is the global body where they meet and agree on global numbering policies and are then brought together at ICANN under the address supporting organization, through which they are able to interact with ICANN and the ICANN community on numbering resource, the numbers side of things. Remember, ICANN is an internet corporation of assigned names and numbers. So we are the numbers people that make ICANN ICANN.

SPEAKER_00 4:50

Thank you for that, Fiona. So I'm guessing each entity, there's a sense of ownership, right? So Afrinic, the Africans own it. The Latin American version, you know, people of Latin American descent own it. So the sense of ownership, right? Now the reason we're having this conversation today is that Afrinik could essentially not belong to us anymore. And um uh going on to that, what is the significance of losing control over this organization? We as we as Africans, because from where I'm standing, is I'll wake up and no longer have the internet. I'll not own the internet. I'm a stakeholder. So if you could just delve deeper into that, that'd be much appreciated.

SPEAKER_01 5:32

That's a very scary statement you've made that we could wake up and find we don't own our internet anymore. But the truth of the matter is that uh when Afrinik was set up, it was a consultation of various African entities who participated in that discussion to even agree on how I can, I'm sorry, Afrinik would be would be set up and where it would be set up. And when the trustees at that time came together in 2021, forming a steering committee to appoint a board and to get the board to set up Afrinik, Mauritius was an ideal location. And being looking at the nature of what Afrinik does for this region, it was expected that Afrinik would have been protected, set up in a manner that protects it and protects our resources and our ecosystem. That said and done, it was what it was, and uh we find that today we are in a situation where it was possible for there to be for the possibility of uh capture. And so we find that we have been captured by a judicial system and one member, yet there are more than 2,000 members of Afrinik. Those are the resource holders across the entire continent who should also be had, who have equal rights with the one resource member who seems to be pushing for issues and things that we are not in agreement with or we may not have clarity on, and not giving us time to engage and uh discuss. So that said and done, the whole fight between this resource member and the registry has put us in a situation where we are under receivership today. We are at the risk of uh liquidation, and we have no governance structures. There's no board, there is no CEO. In essence, the absence of a CEO means no clear management. So we are really being beat from beaten from every side.

SPEAKER_00 8:02

Wow, Fiona, that's a lot to unpack. So I want to hone in on the word captured and resources. When you say captured and resources, um, as a tech and political science person, I you're taking me back to when, you know, our resources as Africans were captured. You know, um, when gold was being captured, when our people were being captured, you know, that's we're a resource. Now it's internet capture. It still is. No, it is. So it's like the the capturing of resources has transferred onto the internet space. Now, if these resources are being captured, we are simply repeating the historical mistakes of our forefathers and we're making it a lot worse. So then, you know, going back to what you said, you're you've now brought in the conversation about um the governance issues. You know, this problem has been, I would you call it a problem? This issue, this governance matter, this challenge has been going on for quite some time now. And though these matters are still evolving legally, why should we, as Africans, view these challenges as potential entry points for external influence? I mean, we already have enough external influence. Now it's internet external influence. What's going on there?

SPEAKER_01 9:25

I think if you asked me, and this is pretty much my personal opinion and view of the current status, and maybe others may not agree with it, but I believe the fact that even today we still have parts of Africa under colonial capture, and I apologize for having to use the word colonial capture in this day and age. It may be offensive to others, but it's the reality, isn't it? Yes, it is the reality. There are countries where the people in those countries have never benefited from the minerals and resources that have been birthed from our motherland, and they are not about to benefit from them anytime soon until Africa changes how we address some issues. The view that the entities coming in from outside may have better is one of our weakest points, and it's one of the points at which I think even our colonial masters had entry into our space. When you think about it, like Victoria was always there, we just didn't call it Victoria.

SPEAKER_00 10:44

No, we didn't.

SPEAKER_01 10:46

But when you listen to the folklore from the communities around there, the lake existed. It did, yeah. You know, there is the story of this beautiful girl who came from the lake, and when her husband was promiscuous, she went back to the lake and the whole village followed her. Why did that happen? Because we knew the lake existed, and the lake meant something to us, but we are told, oh, the lake was discovered, like Victoria was discovered by someone, and we're wondering how they discovered it, and we had people living around there.

SPEAKER_00 11:27

Exactly, exactly. What do they mean? They discovered it exactly, exactly. Same as Mount Kenya, it was Mount Kiryaga, you know, a lot in South Africa, in Niger Nile. You know the river Nile, the pyramids.

SPEAKER_01 11:41

I'm wondering how did they discover yet it was culturally ingrained in our lives and part of our existence.

SPEAKER_00 11:52

I hear you on that one. Well, we can't do much on the discovery, you know, of uh um, and there's traditional names for these. Uh yes, they are. You know, Mount Kenya was Mount Kirinyaga. Um, if if we had, you know, I hope South African listeners, if you can tell us what was the original name of something. I know uh Zimbabwe was Matabelli Land until the name. Actually, no, it was, it went to Matabelli land, then it went to Rhodesia Land, and then it went to Zimbabwe. There's always the original name, then an external name, then the name that everybody wants to consume. But now bringing it back to tech, you know, that's colonial matters around resources. We can't really resolve them overnight. But now this is actually impacting the sector. I just wanted to ask you, you know, statistically, our user base on the continent, our internet user base, is exceeding 600 million and it's growing, you know, at 20% annually statistically. Now, how might external control impact businesses, innovators, researchers, citizens across the internet? Now, I've given you a whole breadth, you know, for me personally, as an aspiring student, as a parent, I need the internet. I use it within the lines of, of course, uh morality and what have you. But what does an external takeover look like?

SPEAKER_01 13:15

Right now, with where we are at, we've gone through a period where new ISPs, new service providers were not being allocated resources. And that's dangerous. Our governments have come together and they have worked on um digital economy blueprints, which they are all trying to implement. So they all have these digital economy strategies. When you look at all those strategies, the common factor around across all these strategies is the fact that they are wanting to connect the 1 billion plus population of this continent. They want everybody connected. They want to deliver services to the population over digital platforms. Then here we are in a situation where the digital platforms cannot be activated because there is no IP address being issued to those that are deploying them, those that need the resources to deploy. What does that mean? It means then the government agenda for digital growth cannot happen. So basically, our discussions, if we take Kenya, for example, where we have a digital blueprint, a digital strategy, cloud strategy, and national strategy, AI strategy. You name it, it's there. We have all this in place, but we cannot deploy them in the air. We need IP resources.

SPEAKER_00 14:44

Amen to that. And the AU recently released their AU continental strategy. So, how will these strategies to echo what you're saying be deployed in the air? You know, I remember when we served in the ICT sector working group and you were very passionate about allocation of internet allocation, you know, a moral ethical allocation because the future is tech. The future is our young people, myself, we trade over the internet. You know, when you're you're looking for a cute pair of shoes, where am I going to? Instagram, um, learning, digital learning. And it's interesting for me as well because Kenya's now top three Chat GPT users globally. So we are using ChatGPT, they were using it globally. And then overnight, no, actually, you can't access Chat GPT. It's it's it's not making sense. It's it's still not making sense to me.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

But we are at a risk of that happening if uh if something doesn't put a stop to the ongoing activities that have been going on, but we've seen efforts, at least the Gazette notices from the Prime Minister of Mauritius and Minister of Defense, and from His Excellency the President of Mauritius, have been uh very supportive in terms of providing some form of direction and clarity in the next steps and what needs to be done to help us protect our infrastructure. Because as it was prior to that, there is the risk of a court deciding, fine, wind it up. What does winding up mean? It means we shut down everything. It means we shut down the who-is, we shut down the routing system, we shut down everything, and that would mean darkness for a period of time as you figure out so who's going to handle where do we route, how do we handle the routing, what is who's going to handle what for us? What can the backup do in the meantime? Who's going to manage it? Who do we, you know, these things that need to be through if we are to attempt to have to let Mauritius do the winding up and shutting down, and we we continue to operate from somewhere else. There's a bit of work that needs to go into it, and we haven't worked on that yet.

SPEAKER_00 17:05

So taking it back to shutting down, you mean a total blackout?

SPEAKER_01 17:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 17:10

A total internet blackout.

SPEAKER_01 17:12

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 17:14

Oh dear.

SPEAKER_01 17:16

From my technical understanding, that is what it's going to be because for one, for starters, the way we conceive our configure our equipment, we like to know who we are communicating with. And we use the ASNs and the IP addresses, referencing the Whois database that the registry manages for us to be able to communicate. So if the registry is off, it means it's like you coming to me without your face, with a mask on your face, and I'm supposed to let you in. Now I'm not so sure that is Tella. She sounds like her, but that face I don't know. How do I identify her? Because that is what identifies us on the communication uh platforms.

SPEAKER_00 18:04

And what are the I'm just trying to imagine the economic implications of a total internet shutdown. You know, MPESA can't be down for a significant time. There's other platforms, you know, we're talking internet banking.

SPEAKER_01 18:19

So the banking, and then a lot of the revenue authorities on the continent have gone digital.

SPEAKER_03 18:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 18:25

So government's revenue collections will go, will be totally messed up. If we take care alone, yes, on a daily basis, I can estimate this is my estimate of care's revenues being about between about eight billion Kenyan shillings daily that they facilitate collect from the different uh taxes that need to be filed and penalties and all being put together, and clearance of cargo at the ports and all.

SPEAKER_00 18:58

And then there's e-citizen.

SPEAKER_01 19:00

Then there is e-citizen. So already when you start putting that together, then now you add the just empesa alone, then add the banking, and you realize uh Kenya alone, I think the the the it would come to close to a couple of billion of US dollars.

SPEAKER_00 19:21

And that's Kenya alone.

SPEAKER_01 19:22

That's Kenya alone.

SPEAKER_00 19:23

So we've not talked about the East African community.

SPEAKER_01 19:25

No, no, no, not yet added the rest of East.

SPEAKER_00 19:27

SADC, Commerce members, ECHOs, ECOWAR.

SPEAKER_01 19:31

Some of the highest populated areas of Africa is in ECHOS, you know, with Nigeria leading in the terms of the population. So that the the business activity taking place online is very Oh my word.

SPEAKER_00 19:43

And that's just on the government side. Let's talk startups, how much money is being generated from startups, job creation, you know, the gig economy, creative economy. I it's it's mind-blowing. It is, it's extremely mind-blowing. And I want to just uh go back to the government's role in with Afrinik. You know, this is one of those situations that for once we can't blame government. You know, government gets a day off in this matter, you know, speaking to um about some of our governments. But uh you've said the Mauritian government wants to step in. Just clarify that part? Are they stepping in? Are they stepping in?

SPEAKER_01 20:23

They have already notices the president has appointed an inspector who's supposed to look into Afrinx activities. Okay. And uh the inspector is also supposed to look into all the cases that have been filed by the different parties to assess the validity, okay, the local standing, the validity of these cases to determine, according to the Gazette Notice, to determine whether there was malice.

SPEAKER_00 20:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 20:52

Because anything that is been put in, just maliciously been thrown at Afrinik, now that will be identified to listen to the community and see to what extent Afrinik serves the region. And I think that's the exciting part for us.

SPEAKER_03 21:08

Okay, great, great, great.

SPEAKER_01 21:09

So, yeah, there is the the the Mauritian government has stepped in. Okay. And uh I think it's having listened and talked to the president of Mauritius in uh the UNIGF in uh Norway. And what's the IGF? The UNIGF is the internet governance forum where we meet to discuss internet governance matters. So this is one of the critical internet governance matters for this continent.

SPEAKER_00 21:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 21:36

I'm happy to see that he understood.

SPEAKER_00 21:40

And should he be rallying the rest of the presidents on the continent? Because, you know, Mauritius is a small nation, you know. You've just highlighted that Nigeria has a huge population and they are on the continent.

SPEAKER_01 21:52

We need to give him the honor and respect he deserves.

SPEAKER_03 21:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

When your kitchen is in a mess, do I come in to help you? I give you time. To limit up. I think we need to respectfully allow the government of Mauritius to try and put things right for us and support them as a community by doing what is right. Okay. And that really begs on our level of ethics as individuals. This, I think, for those who were paid by uh third parties to interfere with Afrinik in any way, whether you made$500,$200,$1,000,$300,$5,000, you pocketed the money, good for you. Now get back on track.

SPEAKER_00 22:41

In fact, should you be even getting back on track? You should be fired. Shouldn't you?

SPEAKER_01 22:45

If you own your own business and you're a stakeholder and you did accept$5,000, really, we are not going to fire you, but we'll tell you you've taken the money fine. Yeah. Get out of that arrangement. Get back onto track. So getting back onto track means that we still need to work as a community to have an election.

SPEAKER_00 23:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

We still need to have a board in place.

SPEAKER_00 23:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

It's only when we have a board in place that we shall be able to now go back and begin to operate according to our bylaws properly. It's sort of impossible to try and force the judicial system to assess issues as per bylaws when in some areas our bylaws are not in alignment with the company's act. So the company act takes presidents. We need to upgrade our bylaws, and that is that can only be done when we have a board in place, and we are able to plan and arrange for that and have the right teams to do that. So our basic uh uh our most critical and basic requirement right now is to have a board in place, and then now have a discussion with the board on the key priority areas that the board should be able to address and have clear timelines and targets of how to do it. And this time around, we are hoping that we shall have an election that is going to use our Afrinic platform that we've used over the years that is not going to require power of attorneys.

SPEAKER_00 24:18

Great.

SPEAKER_01 24:19

So any third parties calling entities for power of attorneys right now, those are irrelevant.

SPEAKER_00 24:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 24:24

We want an election without, and and Afrinic have committed to having the election without power of attorneys, so that there is less interference at that level. And let's just be ethical and think ethically and do what is right.

SPEAKER_00 24:40

In this day and age, um, I just want to ask who stands to, we've talked about the negative impact, right? Who stands to benefit? You've mentioned whoever received$500,$2,000. You know, who stands to benefit when we fall apart? Why is this problem not a Latin American version? Why, why, why Africa? Why us? Is it because we're an unethical people? Were there loopholes? You know, I know we're taking this back a little bit, but who dropped the ball?

SPEAKER_01 25:12

We dropped the ball. We have to take ownership and agree we drop the ball. All of us are in it. I included, we dropped the ball.

SPEAKER_00 25:22

That's major accountability there for you.

SPEAKER_01 25:24

And and and I say I included because I'm part of the community. Yes. As a community, yes, some of us drop the ball, but not by not being very active. Okay. When you're not an active participant, you've dropped the ball.

SPEAKER_00 25:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 25:37

When you assume others are there doing it and therefore it's okay, you've dropped the ball. When you're an active participant but not participating ethically, you've dropped the ball. When you are an active participant participating correctly, but you're scared and fearful of others who are doing things wrongly, you've dropped the ball. And I think some of us who are being fearful of just putting everything out there. And that's why I say, yes, each of us has dropped the ball. I'm not going to point our finger at anybody, knowing that I'm very much part of this community. And when we last reviewed our bylaws, we should have spoken up stronger about some of the gaps we were seeing. When we're developing our regional policies for IP address management and issuing, we should have been more vocal about things we saw that were not okay. But you see, when you when you have agreement by consensus, it means we're not voting for something, but there has to be a general agreement that it is okay. And consensus building requires a lot of lobbying and a lot of give and take. And that therefore means that sometimes you say, okay, fine, I'll give up this for this. But was that a right way to do it? You know? And so we need to go back and review how we work and how we operate and even assess and consider what consensus should mean for us and how that consensus should be achieved. Because having people come in in the room and speak and say, I oppose, I oppose what Fiona says without any clear justification doesn't make sense.

SPEAKER_00 27:23

No, it doesn't agree with you.

SPEAKER_01 27:25

If Fiona is saying something that can help all of us, let us accept it, let us come together and work together to move together and build it. And that therein lies the crux of the genesis of our problem. And we need to have uh an open mind every time we come into our conversations and not think of it in terms of it is Fionash's Anglo-speak.

SPEAKER_00 27:59

Yes, I wanted actually wanted to touch on that. Anglo-speaking Africa and French-speaking Africa.

SPEAKER_01 28:05

And then we've got Arabic-speaking Africa.

SPEAKER_00 28:06

Exactly, and Arab-speaking Africa, yes.

SPEAKER_01 28:08

We've got Portuguese-speaking Africa. Yeah. So when we begin to, it's it's we we we seem to have an African problem of our tribal allegiances and alliances that we end up magnifying and moving it into regional and all these. And we should get out of that. And so while we would want to get out of that, there is a need for us to be honest with ourselves. Yes, there is painfully honest, and to realize that those allegiances do not help us.

SPEAKER_00 28:47

This reminds me of when um, sorry, this reminds me of when the president of uh Rwanda a few months ago, when it was a it was a summit, and he said, we all come together, we agree on something, and we don't implement the reforms, and we need to think of it this way. Nobody's coming out there to save us. Would you say this is a similar scenario of nobody's coming out there to save us? It's our internet, we have to own it. It's our resource, we have to own it. There's a time and a place for allegiances, there's a time and a place for actually as East Africans, this is how we operate. But because the internet is the one thing that is bringing us all together, that is forcing us to have a conversation, then and there can you, no, not can you, should you then say, Ashley, no, let's come together as one voice. Is that is that what you're communicating?

SPEAKER_01 29:36

Yes, we we we have we've had for the longest time uh a motto, a mantra, so to say, at the global level, one one world, one internet, one internet, one world. Okay, and the internet is the internet because it is one internet. Yes, there's a lot of geopolitics that has come into the tech and internet space. Yeah, there is, yeah. That is uh affecting and almost threatening this one internet, and we should be able to rise above that and just we should we should as internet practitioners go the Gen Z where we are tribless, yep, we are languageless, we are we are basically tech, period.

SPEAKER_00 30:26

I think when it comes to the intelligences, you know, you're right, because when you're in a room full of, you know, when when we me and you have been in spaces where you have a delegation from, I don't know, South Africa, from Nigeria. When we're talking internet, it's never about which tribe are you from? You look like you're from here. It's no, it's the internet that has brought us to this room. Exactly. You know, and it's it's only when you go into the breakaway sessions that now you say, as a resident of Lesotho, this is why I need the internet. But the reason you're there is the internet. Exactly. Okay, so we need to operate like that. Thank you, Fiona. Yes, we do. Now, outside of um the Internet Governance Forum, the pla the spaces you sit in, um, how can African civil society regulators and tech organizations ensure one, we don't repeat such mistakes, you know, and two, why do they need to be worried about this? We've talked about the economic implications, the job implications, but bringing it down to now the different uh sectors of society, why should they be worried? And what do they need to do to make sure we don't end up here? Because it affects them at the end of the day, isn't it? And they'll be the ones turning around saying it's your fault, but why did they not get involved in the first place?

SPEAKER_01 31:47

I think the challenge has been the lack of awareness. And every time we're talking about Afrinate, you know, many people do not think of how they get connected. They just know they're connected, it's automatic. Oh, please, yeah. I get my Airtel or Sopharicom Donga and I put it in and I've got connected. Vodacom, yeah. We do not understand with what happens behind all that. Some don't even understand that there's a different numbering system for GSMA that is different from the IP for the internet. And so for them, ah, I'm connected. And then the few times you've had people talk about IPs and they've and they've talked about the GSMA system, they don't understand the random IP allocation mechanism that works to make sure when you're on a mobile, that dynamic IP assignment is happening that is keeping you connected. And therefore, phones do not get tied to IP addresses. And and and and so the the understanding of how that technical space works is not something many people pay attention to. So getting awareness on the African issue has been a bit of uh a long journey, so to say, and we still have work to do on that. Even helping governments understand, helping uh the ISPs understand what it means to assign a part of your IP address block to a third party and the implications of it. When I own a house and I invite people to stay in my house, it gets to a point where if the people staying in that house are criminals and the house belongs to me, I will be held liable for it. Because I'm the one put down as the registered owner. So when you are the registered owner of the property, you need to know what your tenants are doing. You do not give out your house without knowing what business the tenant is involved in. Because if the tenant will be involved in illegal business, you will be held liable. You will be part and parcel of the arrangement.

SPEAKER_00 34:02

And people are not realizing this.

SPEAKER_01 34:04

And people are just beginning to awaken to this fact. So, on the internet space, when you give out a part of your IP address block, you are liable for it because you are the one who's registered as the owner of that block. If anyone misuses it, uses it wrongly, you are ultimately the one person who will be held liable. And therefore, it's you who'll be accountable to law enforcement. If there are issues that pertain to criminal activity that warrant you a jail term, you will be the one going to jail.

SPEAKER_00 34:38

And have we had power of the city?

SPEAKER_01 34:40

And you cannot transfer, say I transferred power of attorney to a third party. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 34:45

No, it would it was you. It is you are the one who transferred it without doing your due diligence checks. And has anyone been sent to jail? Has anyone been held liable?

SPEAKER_01 34:55

Uh we I think the inspection being undertaken by the government of Mauritius is now going to determine that because there's been a lot of situations and uh there's a lot of cases of uh possible arrests, but I can't go into those ones right now. Should be speculating on people's credibility. I don't want to do that.

SPEAKER_00 35:15

No, thank you. Thank you, Fiona. Oh, oh gosh. I I really like the analogy of when you're renting space out or whatever you're renting out, you should be held liable at all times. And then the example around just waking up and expecting, assuming there will be internet. It's like when you take a shower in the morning, you go in, you switch on your shower, and there's water. You don't know where it's coming from. You you only you're only concerned when there's an outage. And the difference between this kind of outage and an internet kind of outage, with outages, there's scheduled maintenances. You know, on this day, um, there's load shedding, on this day, there's a maintenance. On this day, there's always a pipe burst, and then we know the engineer who's gonna come in and resolve this matter. We know it's only a main a maintenance schedule for nine to five. We know this. But with the internet, we don't know. We're not likely to know, and we don't have those structures in case um, in case a total shutdown happens. I'm I'm really worried about that. But despite these challenges, Fiona, are you optimistic Africa can avoid this trap?

SPEAKER_01 36:19

Yes, I am.

SPEAKER_00 36:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 36:21

I'm extremely optimistic because the governments have not have come through, and it's not just been Mauritius. I'd like to appreciate the support that has come in through Smart Africa. The CEO of Smart Africa has done a lot of running around to try and get things into perspective, to try and build a community, consensus even of possible candidates during the last elections. Okay, and they're still willing to do that right now. Smart Africa has come through as a good friend to the community. That's fantastic. So the while they are not telling us do this, they are saying no, we need to actually consider this and then facilitating engagement and platforms. So ministers have been briefed.

SPEAKER_00 37:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 37:10

They are aware, the regulators have been briefed, they are interacting with the community to just get consensus and agreement on uh suitable candidates who can be put on the board. So I need to appreciate the the input from Lucina of uh Smart Africa CEO Lucina and the work that she has done to try and get us and his team to try and get us into these conversations. Okay. Uh there's been uh there's been an awakening within the ecosystem.

SPEAKER_00 37:47

That's the tech ecosystem, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:48

Yes, the technical community on the need for us to do what is right.

SPEAKER_00 37:54

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01 37:55

And to agree, put aside our differences, yeah, and let us move together as a community. And as that is happening, it is helping us begin to actually reflect on so what were the differences really?

SPEAKER_00 38:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:13

And also appreciate that though we may think differently and speak different languages, yeah, we have the same goal.

SPEAKER_00 38:23

One internet.

SPEAKER_01 38:24

One internet.

SPEAKER_00 38:26

Oh wow. I like that. You know, it's it's um it's quite philosophical, isn't it? Yes, yeah, history, a bit of history, a bit of philosophy, and you know, when I like the role of Smart Africa, they're playing the perfect mediator. You know, this is not the time to bicker. This is not the time to you use your words, point fingers. It's happened, it's happened. How do we chart our way forward? Yes. You know, how do we ensure that the current generation, future generations, everybody is not adversely affected by a potential uh melt, not meltdown, sorry, blackout of the internet. So we will not experience a blackout. Is that what you're saying?

SPEAKER_01 39:05

Yes. With where we are at right now, okay, the chances of not experiencing a blackout are higher than they were before.

SPEAKER_03 39:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 39:14

Uh there is an opportunity for us to be able to present our version of the issues to the inspector. Yes. And hope that the inspector will put those into consideration. He's not yet called for input yet, because he was just appointed, and I think trying to put his things in order so that he's able to have time and have a schedule, know when he's reaching out to the community, know when he's talking, going through the court cases. So there's quite a bit of work on his plate, but we look forward to the engagement. Asta spoke, we are ready.

SPEAKER_00 39:54

I I you're smiling, you are ready. And when listeners, when Fiona says she's ready, oh, she is very ready.

SPEAKER_01 40:01

I'm very ready. I have got my bazookas ready.

SPEAKER_00 40:10

I'm always um yes, oh yes, I know it. And it's so great to have you know voices such as yours, you know, championing for the very infrastructure that we need for the internet. Yes. I mean, we're in the age of AI. Nigeria recently, there's a startup that uh has a somewhat of an AI as a service startup, but they have the GPUs, and that's just one. There's an upcoming one in Kenya. Uh, I'm referencing back to the AU continental AI strategy. We have countries like Botswana who are now talking tech, you know, instead of relying for you know the usual um mineral resources, it's now the internet as a resource, from Uganda to, you know, the the the continent essentially is it's technology and the internet and ICT is no longer a back office operation.

SPEAKER_01 41:07

Actually, you move from Cape Town to Cairo, from Nairobi to Accra. Yeah. The entire continent. Yeah. The thinking and perception of tech has changed. It really has. And the more the young people are getting online, the more they appreciate why it is important for them to be online. They appreciate some of the UN principles that many didn't appreciate before. Communication is a right.

SPEAKER_00 41:34

It is. Being online is a right. Freedom of speech, regardless of the channel you use, is a right. Exactly. Oh, wow. Thank you so much, Fiona. And thank you for shedding light on this critical issue. And before we close, any final words to empower our listeners? What should they walk away knowing? No, we've started this episode. Internet will be shut down. Actually, no, it will not be shut down.

SPEAKER_01 42:01

No, we are we are hoping with where we are at now, there's going to be nobody pulling any rugs from under our feet. So we hope it will not be shut down. My final words would be to internet service providers, please review your IP resource allocation. Please check if you are in control of all your resources or some third party has control over it. As TESPOC, we are happy to help service providers get out of any crazy arrangements they may have had with third parties so that they are able to participate in the ecosystem directly, exercising and benefiting their rights as entities in their own right. We are asking CEOs, CTOs to get reports on their IP resource allocation and to also check into the Afrinic system to know who is having access to their system, their resources, their accounts on the Afrinic platform. We are asking the civil society to help us create awareness so that the customers are paying attention to what they're who their service providers are. Because as a customer, you also want to be served by a legitimate service provider. You do. Not some entity that is uh stealing off from others and coming to serve you in the pretext of being a service provider. Make sure your service provider has got the required licenses from the regulators. Because that also then kills some of the market opportunities for IP brokerage that may have existed. So, so especially with third parties who are taking other people's IP addresses. So I would ask then the governments also to be keen as they go digital. We talk about the digital economy. This is really the heart of the digital economy that has been interfered with. Governments should not blink.

SPEAKER_00 44:09

No. And from what you've said, they're not blinking. No.

SPEAKER_01 44:13

So far, Smart Africans make sure they're not blinking. So please continue. Should not blink. They should have their eyes wide open and keep watching to enable us to get to where we need to get to. And I think everybody, everybody really has a role to play in making sure that we ethically are using the internet for the right things and in the right way. Remember, technology is as good as those using it.

SPEAKER_00 44:42

It's as good as the people.

SPEAKER_01 44:46

If we are ethical, we'll go on in ethical ways, and that ethics will propagate and support future generations. When we are unethical, this is where we find ourselves.

SPEAKER_00 44:57

Garbage in, garbage out. My um my one of my favorite books, uh Technology Fallacy, you know, it's it's not about the tech, it's about the people and the processes. And this is what essentially you're trying to fix. Fix the process, work with the people, and it's gonna lead to one internet. True. Well, thank you so much, Fiona and listeners. You've heard it first. Look out for your internet, protect your internet, protect your customers, cushion yourself from external actors. And we've still not talked about the cybersecurity side, but we'll talk about that much later. Thank you. We will actually we will have this, we will have multiple conversations about this. Thank you so much, Fiona. And from me, protecting Africa's digital sovereignty today ensures true independence tomorrow. You've been listening to Tech Talk Africa. I'm Stella Kishui. If today's discussion resonated, please subscribe, share, and stay engaged. Until next time, stay informed, stay sovereign, and keep Africa's digital future in African hands,