After The Hype: AI, Power, And Policy With Harry Hare

Tech Talk Africa | Season 2 Episode 02: After The Hype

Guest: Harry Hare, Chairman & Publisher at CIO Africa

A pandemic rewired our habits, but did it truly change our leadership? We open the door on Kenya’s post-COVID tech reality—how hybrid work became muscle memory, how decision-making evolved, and where old instincts still hold back progress. Then we wade into the storm ahead: elections, uncertainty, and AI stepping onto the political stage. From deepfakes that stress-test public trust to hyper-targeted messages that could raise the quality of civic engagement, we map the risks, the safeguards, and the surprising opportunities for those who prepare.

We also challenge a popular narrative: AI isn’t a bubble; the hype is. Real value sits in workflows where data governance, model observability, and human-in-the-loop controls turn experiments into reliable operations. That shift depends on skills and structure—teams that can instrument CRMs, segment audiences responsibly, and build processes that fail safely. Policy enters here, but only if it points to a coherent North Star. Regions that commit to practical bets—chip assembly, logistics, data centers—create ecosystems that attract capital and talent. Clarity compounds.

Inclusion is not a side panel; it is a performance edge. We talk candidly about women in tech leadership—why visibility lags, how confidence and nomination pipelines stall, and what it takes to get more women shaping models, data, and product decisions. The recurring theme is scale: Africa doesn’t lack creativity; it lacks the structures to grow pilots into platforms. Strong foundations, smarter governance, and regional market depth can change that. We may have missed the internet wave, but AI offers a second chance—if we align, build guardrails, and scale what works.

If this conversation sparked a thought, share it with a friend, subscribe for more Tech Talk Africa, and leave a review with the one shift you think Kenya must make next.

Credits
Host: 

• Stella Gichuhi

Producer: 

• James Njoroge

Executive Producers:

• Harry Hare
• Agutu Dan

Transcript

Introduction

SPEAKER_01 0:00

This week's episode is a reflection and a look ahead. Well, looking at post-COVID digital transformation has really meant a cadence. Beyond emergency adoption, beyond buzzwords, and asking what has actually changed in how institutions, businesses and governments operate. We also explore how artificial intelligence may shape politics in Kenya. Public discourse and elections to transregulation and the public panel of algorithms in democratic systems. We spotlight women in tech leadership in the country. Not just participants, but as decision makers, my question is where are we in the leadership journey? Are we showing up or are we not being given the opportunities? We also ask the deal question. What place does a social statist have in the age of AI? And how would they want to be? Lastly, I asked a question: what should leaders, founders, policymakers, and citizens be watching in the year? This is Tech Talk Africa, where technology beats policy, people, and power. I'm your host, Stella Gishui. I want to take us back to COVID. I think COVID catapulted and accelerated a lot of the innovation we're seeing in the industry.

SPEAKER_02 1:31

We used to have something called Cadit.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

Cadit, what's cadit?

SPEAKER_02 1:35

Uh COVID activated digital transformation or something like that. Also, there's a proper term. Yes, there there was, yeah, yeah. We we we uh you know, because you know, cov COVID did a lot of things to people.

SPEAKER_00 1:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:50

Depending on which direction you are in, uh, it either uh catalyzed you into a certain direction, yeah. Maybe a pivot.

SPEAKER_00 2:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:01

Uh or it killed you.

SPEAKER_00 2:03

Right.

SPEAKER_02 2:03

Yeah, there were there was no gray area. So uh yeah, so there was a whole term around the it was carded. I'm not so sure the the what the the words are, but yeah, cardit.

SPEAKER_01 2:15

Did you come up with that term?

SPEAKER_02 2:17

Uh no, I didn't. Actually, it's Moses. Moses Kimibaro is the one who came up with that term.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

Okay. Yeah. Well, the reason I'm going, I'm taking it back to COVID is because we've seen a lot of change, uh, skilling, tech, now there's AI.

SPEAKER_02 2:29

There's been COVID accelerated digital transformation.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

It accelerated digital transformation. And with that acceleration, did leadership necessarily change, or did it force leadership to change, or are we still seeing the same nuances of pre-COVID mentality?

SPEAKER_02 2:46

COVID required that you change.

SPEAKER_01 2:49

It required that you change, okay.

SPEAKER_02 2:50

Yeah, there was there was no way you're going to do business as usual.

SPEAKER_01 2:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:54

Um in the COVID area. And that's therefore made a lot of leaders rethink some of the decisions that they would normally make. It made uh businesses uh think different on how they conduct their business. Okay. So there was a lot of changes um because as a as a result of COVID. Uh because you know, then there were new industries that were created out of COVID.

SPEAKER_03 3:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:21

Um, and big companies struggled, suffered, died uh because of COVID. So they definitely there was change.

SPEAKER_01 3:30

And we continue to see that change.

SPEAKER_02 3:31

Yes, we because you see now, you see, you when you when you take up a certain behavior uh over two years, um, you know, when the situation changes, you you you don't go back to where you were. No. You you accelerate and move forward.

SPEAKER_00 3:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:47

Uh so a lot I think we took a lot of lessons from COVID and um some of the businesses, and um myself included, I think we we took advantage of the new things that we learned as a result of COVID. Yeah. And and just say infuse them into the business and you move forward.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

And has everybody moved forward? Uh, do you say because you convene quite a lot of leaders? And what I'm hearing from you is we've moved forward, we move forward. But is there a moment where you thought if these people don't move forward, the country is screwed now from a national perspective?

SPEAKER_02 4:22

Um I can talk about the industry, I understand.

SPEAKER_01 4:28

Yes, okay.

SPEAKER_02 4:29

Um if you look at if you look at the technology industry, um a lot of a lot of people actually have have done that move. Uh they've they've changed the you know, a lot of people changed how they used to do things. Um and and it became, you know, it became like muscle memory after after two years, you know, it becomes muscle memory.

SPEAKER_03 4:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:54

Um and and then you you now, okay, so COVID is over now.

SPEAKER_00 4:59

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02 4:59

So what do we do? Yes. Um, and you know, what I've seen is a lot of people now took the lessons. Okay, let me give you an example. Uh a perfect example is is a work from home.

SPEAKER_00 5:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:12

Yeah. Yeah. Uh walk from home is is a you know, it it never used to like it was not a conversation. Um, you know, but then COVID came. Yeah, and then people had to work from home. It even became a thing. Uh and uh COVID ended. Some companies still do work from home.

SPEAKER_01 5:35

They do, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:35

And they've so they've but they've integrated it with a few hours in the office or a few days in the office, and then a few a few days in you know, working from home or report. Yeah. Uh so there's there's these things that people now have mixed, you know, lessons from COVID, and then now the new reality. Yeah. Uh so you you try to figure out, okay, what what will work, what what is the best of the two worlds. Uh, and then you know, you propel your business.

SPEAKER_01 6:02

So a proper hybrid approach also.

SPEAKER_02 6:04

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:04

Okay, so COVID came and end, then we had an election.

SPEAKER_02 6:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

I've been wanting to ask you, how do you handle the business during an election cycle? Because we're gonna see one in 18, 16 months time, yeah, 17, 18 months time. Oh, man. How what how should the industry prepare for this period?

SPEAKER_02 6:22

You know, one one of the things that I wish could happen, yeah. Um, and and this is not just in Kenya, but I think across Africa, is is when uh businesses is decoupled from the uncertainty of elections. Uh, because you know, whenever there's an election, then there's a lot of uncertainty, and then uh it affects business because um, you know, people are not sure of what is gonna happen. Um so it's it's it's always dicey. It's it's it's very it's very scary for business people, uh, it's very scary for uh investors. Yeah. Um because and this is because of the you know, there's always a lot of shenanigans that come come up with, you know, during elections. You know, an election is disputed and therefore business is affected. Yeah. Or there's violence, and then um, you know, people cannot do business. Uh so so there's always uh there's always tension uh during during that period. Um but I think I think there's no one uh one solution to it. No. Um, you know, depending on what the business is, uh, because you you know, there's some people who actually make a lot of money during elections.

SPEAKER_01 7:47

I call them the merchants of the elections or the merchants of mayhem, a merchant of something.

SPEAKER_02 7:52

Yeah, it's not really mayhem. Um it's it's people who um, you know, their businesses align. Um because you see, an election is an event.

SPEAKER_00 8:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 8:03

I look at an election as an event.

SPEAKER_00 8:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:05

Um so the people who supply that kind of event. Yeah. Yeah. So you know, the people who do branding, the people who do marketing, the people who you know, they actually make a lot of money, doing that.

SPEAKER_01 8:16

The matches of the event. Okay, much it's it's a business and and and things need all this branding and stuff, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I I think I think it's it's it's not the election which is a problem. It's it's what happens um after the election or during the election. Yeah, that that elec uh that campaign period, you know, what happens is is there going to be violence? Now that you know, the moment there's violence, then businesses uh are affected.

Chapter 3

SPEAKER_01 8:49

Yeah. And now tech is gonna be a new actor, or has been a new actor, continues to be a lot of people. Why do I get the feeling that future elections, AI, the new actor, the new political actor, is going to shift how the electorate behaves, how they think, how they operate. You know, when I see rallies being put together, I keep wondering, do you know there's something called AI? Which will bring me on to my next question of how that the role of AI in all this and what you see on the continent for AI. So those are the two questions here.

SPEAKER_02 9:22

That's that's um it's it's actually a very large question.

SPEAKER_01 9:26

It is.

SPEAKER_02 9:27

Uh so let's let's let's break it down.

SPEAKER_01 9:30

Let's break it down, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:32

Um AI as a trend, AI as a technology, uh is changing everything. Yeah, you know?

SPEAKER_00 9:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:41

Um it's it's changing how we think about stuff, it changes how we do things, uh, it it even changes how we think. Yeah. So so uh you know, in the election period, um you you're going to see a lot of AI. Uh you're going to see a lot of deepfakes. Uh you'll you'll you know you'll see a speech uh that is uh uh is purportedly done by Stella, yeah, uh who is vying for MCA I don't know where she's somewhere, but probably not even the country. Um so you you you you you find that uh you know we'll we'll see a lot of this, but so so that's a negative side.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:25

Uh but you'll also see um say hyper-targeting of campaign messages uh by different uh candidates. Now that's a positive side. You know, I have a message, yes, I want to hyper-target it to the Gen Zs. Yeah, um, and you know, you can hyper-target that message to to you know to an individual.

SPEAKER_03 10:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:47

Um so so there's so that's a power that AI has. Uh so it it has both, you know, depending on how you want to use it. It's it's like anything. Um, you know, if you want to use it for evil, you can use it for evil. If you want to use it for good, you can use it for good. Yeah. So so I'm seeing I'm seeing a lot of uh I use uh in the coming uh in the coming general election. And you know, Kenya is uh is always you know, we're very experimental, so we try things.

SPEAKER_00 11:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:20

Um and people will try things. I can I can guarantee you. People will try things, they'll try to come up with crazy scripts and give it to different candidates, you know, depending on how they want to uh position that candidate to to to the world.

SPEAKER_01 11:36

It's like throwing mud at a wall and seeing what sticks.

SPEAKER_02 11:38

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Chapter 4

SPEAKER_01 11:39

Okay, so bring right, thank you. Bringing it closer to home. The AI bubble, I believe it's gonna burst. Poof. Do you believe it's gonna burst? Where is is it not?

SPEAKER_00 11:50

No.

SPEAKER_01 11:50

Oh, no. Okay, okay. Let's let's unpack this.

SPEAKER_02 11:54

It's it's it's it's not going to burst um because I don't think it's even a bubble. Um I think AI is a trend that is here with us. And and we we just need to figure out, you know, there's a lot of the hype, by the way, is is dissipating.

SPEAKER_01 12:14

Yes, the hype. Sorry, I should be asking that.

SPEAKER_02 12:16

So the hype will be but yeah, hype is dissipating. Okay. Uh, and now the reality is coming into play. Because you see, um and and you know, I I always you know, I always want to have this this distinction uh of AI. Because you see, if if you're talking about AI as an individual, yeah, uh, so you use your use of chat GPT, your use of perplexity or whatever, you know, those tools, uh, that's that's a different um kind of use case. Um, so that will continue. People will be generating text, they'll be generating images and etc. Uh, but there's also this other side of uh AI, which is now infused into business processes.

SPEAKER_00 13:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 13:03

Um, and that is the bigger, that's a bigger thing. Yeah, yeah. Because you see now businesses have started now looking at AI and say, how does this get into my workflow?

SPEAKER_00 13:14

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:15

How do we how do we get AI to help what we do? Yeah, that is a bigger discussion.

SPEAKER_01 13:23

And is it happening? It is, and you're seeing are you it is are you happy with the progress?

SPEAKER_02 13:27

It's slow that's being made slow because you see, uh, it's slow because not because um people don't want to move, but there's a lot of caution, uh, which I think is is uh is fair. Um there's there's a lot of caution on okay, what what if? Yeah. Um so we go we go the AI route, say if for for lack of a better example, so your CRM. Yeah. Yeah, you you plug in uh some sorry, cheat information. C C R M.

SPEAKER_01 13:57

C R M, sorry, okay.

SPEAKER_02 13:59

Yeah, your CRM, uh contact uh what is it called? CRM.

SPEAKER_01 14:05

It's customer relationship management.

SPEAKER_02 14:06

Yeah, yeah, that one customer relationship management tool that you're using.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:11

Um so you plug in AI in there uh for it to segment your data. Yeah? So you want it to segment your data, you want it to uh to be pushing out uh certain communications uh you know regularly, maybe after every week. Um but then what if it misses uh the segment that you you know, what if there's a mismatch? You know, so so there's a lot of what-ifs in there. Uh and it's until now people are confident and they've built the the resilience within uh within their processes and they have the right guard guardrails to make sure that you know whatever uh the AI is is supposed to do is what it's uh it's going to do. Yeah, uh then you'll you'll have that slow uptake. But what I know is people have started investing in skills, yeah, in processes, in infrastructure. Infrastructure. So people have started investing in those.

SPEAKER_01 15:12

Speaking of skills, you and I come from a social sciences background, and I've been lamenting how pivoting into a STEM, science, technology, engineering, maths is kind of mind-boggling for me. What would you say for those of us who want to pivot, but we come from social sciences? Keep keep up the good fight, or do you like the Palantir CEO believe that humanities and social sciences don't have a place in this new AI world?

SPEAKER_02 15:40

I think um, I think we're past that. We're past that. Oh yeah, we're past that because um if you look at um uh okay, my my my own example. Uh I'm an anthropologist. Yeah, a lot of people don't know that. But I'm an anthropologist, yeah. Uh trained uh as an anthropologist. Okay. Um, and I kept telling this story that um my professor, the first I you know, when I went to uni, I didn't even know what anthropology was. Uh but my pro you know, our professor, the first class, uh uh he tells us, you know, guys, uh okay, you you've been called here to do anthropology. However.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

Oh, however.

SPEAKER_02 16:23

However. Yes. Um, this does not define you.

SPEAKER_01 16:28

Fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 16:29

Yeah. You can be whoever you want. Um if if you you know you can use what we're training you here with, uh, you know, we're training you uh to become whatever you want to be. Uh you don't have to, you know, stick to a certain role because that's what you've been trained on. You've gone through a lot of sifing from nursery school to primary school to now you are at the university. Yeah, you're ready. What what we're doing is is just to prepare you for the world.

SPEAKER_00 16:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 16:58

Yeah, that's so so that was I think that was a really profound lecture.

SPEAKER_00 17:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:02

Um, by the late uh uh Professor O'Dach.

SPEAKER_00 17:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 17:07

Um, and and from that day, I think I I started looking at things very differently. Um, so it's it's really up to you. What do you want to be?

SPEAKER_00 17:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:16

Uh I can tell you the last and and you know the team here knows, but the last two months, I've been vibecoding like a madman. Vibecoding? Yes. What's vibecoding? Oh.

SPEAKER_01 17:28

Should I not be asking that out loud?

SPEAKER_02 17:31

Using AI to write code.

SPEAKER_01 17:34

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 17:35

Yeah, so I've been I've been right I've been vibe coding like a madman. Vide coding. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 17:40

Yeah, written several applications that we use internally.

SPEAKER_01 17:43

Fantastic.

Chapter 6

SPEAKER_02 17:44

Yeah, so it's it's really up to you.

SPEAKER_01 17:46

Okay. The country is on a policy journey. Yeah. So we had the AI strategy. Yes. Now we're in an AI policy journey. I don't know when it's going to be launched. Do we are we are we headed in the right direction? And right is ambiguous, right is relative. Should we be focusing on policy or should we be implementing?

SPEAKER_02 18:06

You know that's a tricky question.

SPEAKER_01 18:07

Uh there's i i I asked it deliberately. Yeah, it's you have to make your tech hat and your anthropology out.

SPEAKER_02 18:13

It's a it's a very tricky question because you see, we why why are we writing policies? Why are we doing strategies? Why are we doing all these things? Um, we want to to get to a certain point. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So so these these are supposed to be roadmaps. Yeah. Yeah. You're creating a roadmap uh which will take you from point A to point B. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I'm a very practical person. Um I know. I I don't like getting into into overthinking stuff, over over regulating or over policizing, over analyzing, you know. Um I think I think whichever direction um that you know, whatever documents that we're putting together, whether it's a it's a policy, it's a strategy, let's let's have let's let's align to make sure that we're we're we are all thinking about where we are going. Yeah uh so let's have this North Star, yes, which everybody now aligns to and say, okay, whatever we do, whatever documents we develop, whether it's a strategy, it's an AI strategy, an AI policy, whatever it is, regulation, whatever it is, yeah. It's directing us to the North Star. Yeah, and we rally uh everybody towards that North Star. I think to me that that is what is important.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

Do we have a North Star?

SPEAKER_02 19:45

That one I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know whether we have that North Star. Because when you speak to different uh individuals, we speak to different people, you know, everybody looks at these things differently. Yeah. Um, and I think that's why we lose a lot of time.

SPEAKER_00 20:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 20:03

We also lose a lot of because you see, uh, you know, when I look at the region, because you know, we do work across across the region. Yes. Uh, you can see people are making moves, um, very interesting moves. Uh, and and you can see these moves then they they they sort of create a perception that uh it's better to invest here than to invest here, or it's better for me to go and set up here because of this and this and that. Yeah. So so we just need to have that that not star uh which we can all be aiming at. Uh whatever we do, you know, however small, however big it is, uh the effort, but you know that you you you have a not star that you're you're aiming at.

SPEAKER_01 20:49

You said there's some interesting moves. Would you care to share an interesting move you've seen maybe in country across the region?

SPEAKER_02 20:56

No, it's it's things like you know, you you start hearing people who are doing uh say, for instance, chip manufacturing. Uh um Yes. Yeah. So so you know that's practical stuff. Yeah. Um, you can wish it. It's it's not in me. I don't think it was in their policy paper. No, I don't think so. No. Um but you know, those are the things that I'm talking about, you know, what you know, so because you see, the moment now you hear these guys are doing chip manufacturing, then uh what does that do? Uh there's a whole ecosystem around chip manufacturing. Uh, because the next thing is you hear there'd be somebody who is assembling stuff.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:33

Uh then you you it then becomes a logistics uh play. Then it becomes, you know, so there a whole ecosystem can form around it. Yeah. And and that's I think that is what we need to let's identify that North Star that we are all looking for as a country, and then and then we aim at it, and then we just go.

Chapter 7

SPEAKER_01 21:52

Okay. Ministry folk, if you're listening to this, we need a North Star. Uh, there's a conversation we had. Actually, we didn't have it. I brought it up. And I said, out of all the CIOs, the how many 17 CIOs, only two have been women or three have been women? I want to unpack that. I don't want to blame. I'm not going to play the blame game and say you don't you don't necessarily choose women. But there's also something you've said that stuck with me in that you've witnessed in the industry, you've worked so with some brilliant women, but they don't put themselves forward. They don't nominate themselves for such awards. Why do you think that is? What do we need to do differently?

SPEAKER_02 22:29

That is uh it's a battle we we just I think we just have to keep on um having. Um I uh yeah you're right. I know I know brilliant women who are doing some amazing work. Um uh but there's there's there's this hesitance. Yeah. Um I I think I think you guys now call it in imposter syndrome, I think.

SPEAKER_01 22:54

We've been calling it imposter syndrome. We've been calling it given names, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 23:00

But I think I think it's just um sometimes it's a confidence issue. Um because and and I don't know why that is an issue because you see, uh you're a professional.

SPEAKER_00 23:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:15

Um you uh you do you do your work well, you understand what needs to be done, and you're already doing it.

unknown 23:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:25

Um but but that's uh I guess I guess it's a it's I don't know whether it's um it's a it's a uh it's a gender kind of uh issue where men are always ready to boast and show off and then women don't women don't do it. Uh they they uh they actually frown at it. I don't know. It's it's it's uh honestly speaking, I feel like sometimes it's a social thing.

SPEAKER_01 23:59

So okay. I that I'm asking that because as an anthropologist, I'm sure you've come across data to support what you're saying.

SPEAKER_02 24:07

Or did you research the relationship? I haven't, I haven't I haven't, I haven't researched uh should that be a research tool. Probably it should be. Yeah, but I think it's it's it could be a socialization thing. Yeah. Uh where um and you know, probably when you look at you look back when you know people, you know, when we're growing up, um uh boys have always been the guys, you know, doing crazy things and aggressive, yeah. And and then girls are always, you know, calm and at the back and watching what is going on.

SPEAKER_03 24:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:39

Uh so maybe maybe that is taken too far. I don't know. Um I'm just I'm really I I don't have a straight answer to this. Uh but it's it's something that we grapple with.

SPEAKER_00 24:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:51

Um, because even even the uh even even just speaking at our events, um, you know, I I know they're brilliant people, and and you you know, we reach out to them.

SPEAKER_01 25:05

Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_02 25:06

Um uh but you know, people will turn it down. Uh and and then it turns around. Uh why do you have a manner?

SPEAKER_01 25:17

Yeah, where's the manner? Why do you have a I I know I used to be one of those. What's wrong with that panel? But I think working with you over the last few months, I'm starting to understand the intent is there, the support is there. I mean, fantastic team with Carol from Content, and she reaches out to a lot of women, but there's still a gap, isn't there? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And in a forever-changing world now, we've talked about AI. AI is here, and there have been organizations around feminism and AI, but I want to say but women should be involved in the formulation of this LLMs and the vibe coding. I agree. They should start from on this side as opposed to going on a stage and complaining why AI does not have women in there, it's replicating a sexist world. Should then should we then be uh going up a notch and saying, because we went through uh let's create coders. Should we now be creating data scientists and data engineers?

SPEAKER_02 26:13

I think we need to create everybody, everybody.

SPEAKER_01 26:15

So it shouldn't be specialist specific.

SPEAKER_02 26:17

Yeah, because it's you see uh that there are all these spaces uh which I think um they don't lack women. No, it's it's just that um it's a showing up. Um it's a showing up uh and and being being deliberate uh about about the your input into whatever it is. Yeah, so I th I think it's all it's it's not just AI, it's IoT, all these places where you know this technology. I I think you know, and and honestly speaking, you know, you know, when when you look at when you look at some of the women leaders in IT that I've I've interacted with, yeah, my goodness.

SPEAKER_01 26:59

They're brilliant.

SPEAKER_00 27:00

They're so yeah. Absolutely brilliant.

SPEAKER_01 27:03

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:04

So that's that's it.

Chapter 8

SPEAKER_01 27:07

Okay. So this time last week we were on a stage at the uh year ahead event and you know it was a matter of what do we foresee happening this year in the industry. Is there something that not something, is there something you'd like to wish, not wish, sorry, that you didn't necessarily communicate to the audience because I've realized, I've noticed that what we say on stage in front of a pack room of 100, 200 is not necessarily always internalized, and there's always something like I should have said this. Is there something you want to share?

SPEAKER_02 27:42

I think that I think that event was really it was there was like super good conversations. Yeah, very good conversations. But I think I think what's what stuck at me is what uh Deborah uh kept on saying. Um and I don't think what you know whether whether I I'm not I'm not sure whether people really picked it, but she she said we we we as Africa we don't lack uh creativity, no we don't lack innovation. Innovation.

SPEAKER_00 28:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:16

Um what we lack is scale.

SPEAKER_00 28:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:19

Um and that is so true. Uh because you know you you find that even businesses, yeah. Uh forget about the use of tech within within a business that you know projects or pilots don't scale. But even businesses that we build don't scale.

SPEAKER_00 28:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:37

Uh and and and that is that is something that is profound. I think we need to really, really rethink um of how we how we uh buy tech, how we integrate tech into our into our businesses, but also how do how do we build tech and how do we build businesses rather? How do we build businesses and how do we build them to scale? I think the scale conversation needs to be had more.

SPEAKER_01 29:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:04

Um, maybe louder.

SPEAKER_01 29:05

Louder, okay. Louder scaling conversation.

SPEAKER_02 29:07

Yeah. Yeah. Uh because I think that's where now uh that's that's actually the difference between Africa and the rest of the world. Yeah. Uh because you see, when you talk about unicorns, uh, it's scale. It's about scale. Um, so I I think that's a conversation that we need to have more.

SPEAKER_01 29:24

And what are the barriers to scale? What's like your top five barriers to scale? Because you've you've mentioned scale quite a bit in conversations.

SPEAKER_02 29:30

A lot of it is is structure. Structure. I think I think structure, um uh strategy, um, you know, having the the right strategy to whatever you're doing. Yeah. Um I don't know. I think I think those are the two big things that I can think of. Uh, but mostly uh mostly structure. Do are we build uh or are we building uh something um uh with with with the structure or the foundations to scale? Yeah. It's it's it takes take a skyscraper. Yes. Yeah, you have a skyscraper, you're building a skyscraper, yeah. Uh but then you're building on sand.

SPEAKER_01 30:10

Oh right reminds me of a nursery where wise man built his house on something almost almost a sand.

SPEAKER_02 30:17

Yeah, there's a proverb around that. Yeah, so so you need that foundation to be able to build something that is big. Um you know we've seen this, like you know, big good companies come up over the years. Uh then it gets to a certain point where it plateaus, yeah, and then it just tanks. And uh it's it's it's really sad to see companies like those um go down uh because because of the impact that it made. So so how do we how do we you know legally uh protect uh such organizations from uh what we've seen? Uh you know, do we put policies now? That's where now you need policies to make sure that these companies don't go down. Um probably if it was in the US, I don't know. Uh maybe you know there'd be a regulatory uh a regulatory action where regulators go going, regulators go in and make sure that they stabilize the business. Yeah. I don't know, but you know, we need to be able to, because the impact it's it's is massive.

SPEAKER_01 31:24

Okay, so we're championing scale for 2026.

SPEAKER_02 31:27

Yes, yes, we need to we need to scale.

SPEAKER_01 31:29

Okay. Any last words for our listeners for our CIOs? Anything burning that they need to be aware of?

SPEAKER_02 31:36

Nothing really. I think for now it's just too, you know, the year has just begun. Um I I think there's a lot of stuff going on. Um I think we just need to this AI thing, we need to really uh work on it. I keep on saying we we we I believe we lost uh the internet uh opportunity.

SPEAKER_01 32:02

Who's we? Africa, Africa. Africa lost the internet opportunity.

SPEAKER_02 32:06

We lost the the the af the internet opportunity because people really made a lot of money through the internet. The global north, yes. Okay. I think I think now we we we are already behind, but we we are not too far. Yeah. Um for us to be able to because you see the AI is also a developing story. Yes. Uh so I think I think we we have an opportunity to uh to really double down on the AI and and also become part of the people who benefit from it.

SPEAKER_01 32:38

Okay, fantastic. So don't lose the AI opportunity and the content.

SPEAKER_02 32:42

No, we should not.

SPEAKER_01 32:44

Okay. Well, thanks so much, Harry.

SPEAKER_00 32:46

I'll be covering it.

SPEAKER_01 32:48

Come back following up episode two. Thank you. Fantastic. There you have it all that's Tech Talk Africa joined by Hi High. Hi, I'm not sure.