Building Amanzi Cloud: Decentralized AI Infrastructure For Africa By Africa Featuring Justice Mukaro

Guest: Justice Mukaro - Founder of Strateji & Zimbabwean entrepreneur
 
What happens when Africa stops importing assumptions and starts exporting standards? We sit down with founder and computer scientist Justice Mukaro to unpack a bold, practical plan for sovereign AI: Amanzi Cloud, a decentralized infrastructure designed to keep data local, cut costs, and connect every country into one living network.

Justice’s water metaphor makes complex systems feel simple. Traditional hyperscalers are like dams; Amanzi is a network of boreholes—nodes in data centers, institutions, and smaller machines—linked by secure “pipes” that track flow, prevent leaks, and respect each nation’s laws. That shift unlocks data sovereignty without isolation, enabling cross-border collaboration, fair pricing for builders, and privacy-first compute that aligns with global trends toward decentralization. From a chance intro to a data center tour to a new partnership, we map how relationships move pilots from pitch to reality.

We also go deep on the human side of infrastructure: how Afrocentric tech means more than branding; why educating through product beats slide decks; and what it takes to be a diplomatic innovator who can talk policy on Monday and ship code on Tuesday. Justice traces Strategy’s pivots—from WhatsApp-native surveys to dataset curation to hardware-aware cloud design—showing how mission fidelity and flexibility can coexist. The stakes are clear: if Africa doesn’t feed its context into AI, the systems shaping daily life will misread the continent and harden those errors at scale.

Walk away with a clear mental model for decentralized cloud, concrete steps for building sovereign data pathways, and founder-grade lessons on partnerships, pricing, and courage. If you care about AI ethics, privacy, and equitable growth—from Nairobi to Harare to Lagos—this conversation is a roadmap and a rallying cry. 

Subscribe, share with a builder or policymaker in your circle, and leave a review telling us: what’s the first node your community needs?

Credits
Host: 

• Stella Gichuhi

Producer: 

• James Njoroge

Executive Producers:

• Harry Hare
• Agutu Dan

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Sabana? Munjani?

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Yeah, Friday Bazana. Munjani.

Chapter 1: Silicon Savannah

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Oh, Tobazana. Pan-African tech, global citizenship, cloud, water, what does this all mean for the future of the continent? I was joined by founder and CEO of Strategy, Justice Mukaro. And it was amazing to hear from a computer scientist speak so diplomatically and philosophically about technology, the cloud and AI, and the risks of not understanding the need to go sovereign with our data, to be intentional about how we move as a continent. And from being an environment that's been extracted upon to moving where it's essentially aura for aura. You have value, I have value. Let's meet in the middle. Can't wait for you all to hear this episode. Three flights, two cities, an AI forum, and now Tech Talk Africa. Welcome, Justice.

SPEAKER_00 0:59

Thank you so much. It's been quite the journey.

SPEAKER_01 1:01

It has been quite the journey. Welcome to Kenya. Is this your first time in Kenya?

SPEAKER_00 1:04

Yeah, yeah. It's my first time. And I'm loving it.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

So you're loving it? Are you gonna move here?

SPEAKER_00 1:08

Yeah, I don't want to go back home.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

You don't want to go. Why?

SPEAKER_00 1:10

But this is the best place to be if you're building tech in Africa.

SPEAKER_01 1:13

Guys, our brother from Zimbabwe has said Kenya is the best place to be if you're building tech in Africa. That's why we have Tech Talk Africa. Tell us a little bit about yourself, Justice.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

So the name, as you've already said, is Justice. I am the founder of Strategy Inc., and we are a startup that is on a mission to make artificial intelligence safer and smarter for Africa.

SPEAKER_01 1:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

And uh how we're doing that is through the construction of Afrocentric infrastructure for AI. So it's infrastructure in the cloud, infrastructure for data sets, and then algorithms themselves.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

Define Afrocentric tech. We look Afrocentric, but what is Afrocentric tech?

SPEAKER_00 1:51

Essentially it's tech built by Africans for Africans.

SPEAKER_01 1:54

With Africans. Yeah, yeah. So the whole team, so we're not importing anything.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

Yes. So we we we can import stuff, but we make sure we localize it to fit our context as opposed to just bringing plug-and-play systems that we have no contribution towards their creation.

SPEAKER_01 2:08

Right. And what problem are you trying to solve? Building is one thing, but what exactly are you trying to solve? What's the African problem that you're seeing, foreseeing?

SPEAKER_00 2:16

It's that we are importing AI that wasn't designed by our people or to save us. No. So in the long run, it means we are essentially importing problems for ourselves.

SPEAKER_01 2:25

Yeah. We met at the Nairobi, the recently concluded Nairobi AI Forum. What was your experience like?

SPEAKER_00 2:31

I think this is the best event I have attended so far as a founder. Yeah. I've been a founder for the past five years, although strategy in particular has been the past three years. Right. And why I say it's the best is it's one of the places where I have to explain my least my myself the least. I just told people that we are building a decentralized cloud for Africa. Okay. And the people in the room immediately understood what I was saying. As opposed to having to try and educate people from ground zero. The people already within the ecosystem understand these technologies and the impact that they're going to make on the continent.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

But then let me push back on that. Isn't it our job to educate people? Because my experiences when I I even call myself a chief AI bestie, Vasitech, was we have to educate people. So there's there's that balance between there's those within the ecosystem, like we rightly said, you don't have to explain yourself to them, and those that you have to educate to understand what it is you're trying to build, and that's the masters. But it what how do we resolve that? Because we need to educate everybody.

SPEAKER_00 3:35

Yeah. So I think the easiest way to educate people would be through the product. Yeah. Which means you have to have built something first in order for people to under to interact with it and understand it. So imagine trying to teach someone what AI is without Chat GPT.

Chapter 2: Strateji

SPEAKER_01 3:50

Without ah, so you need to build a product. And how has that build journey been for you? Tell us about the strategy.

SPEAKER_00 3:56

So when we launched three years ago, our primary mission was to address the gap in which there is a deficiency of African data sets that are to be used for AI training. Yes. So the first two years we were specifically focusing on that. And the approach was that you build relationships first with institutions, with the data, the infrastructure so that we could uh make that make a product out of that. And I would say the journey was really good. We managed to build a lot of uh diplomatic relationships from within Zimbabwe and on the continent. And I think uh the highlight of the journey was when I was uh selected as a Mandela Washington fellow and I managed to spend around six weeks in the US. Okay. Uh I was in Hansville, Alabama. So that was my my my first experience fully immersed in a you know a bigger country in regards to tech with the right ecosystem and the right resources. And on return from the US, that was last July. Okay, we got uh we hit the ground running. I managed to travel to India again, where we secured partnerships with a blockchain company.

SPEAKER_01 4:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:00

And uh the reason for blockchain is because it's one of the key technologies we're going to be using uh within our development. But then as we were having these conversations with different ecosystem players around building for the decentralized data lakehouse that we need to build, we realized that it's more of a secondary step. The underlying technology as well has to be decentralized so that our our lake house would have somewhere to sit. So from the relationships built over the past two years, we recently secured a gigantic partnership with Influx Technologies.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

Fantastic. Congratulations.

SPEAKER_00 5:33

Thank you. And they are the creators of the Flux Cloud or the Flux Technology, which essentially powers the decentralized uh cloud that we're going to be building together now for Africa.

SPEAKER_01 5:43

There are those who are not going to like what you're doing, and they're those who will support what you're doing. So let's start with the ones who are likely to not support you.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

The ones who do not want to pay what the uh their data is worth aren't going to like this technology. Mainly because, like it the word says is decentralized. Which means, you know, the control of the system and of the data is distributed uh evenly to the holders of the servers or the nodes on which the data sits. So yeah, most probably those are the guys that aren't going to like that.

SPEAKER_01 6:15

Okay.

Chapter 3: Amanzi

SPEAKER_00 6:15

The guys who are going to love this are the people of Africa. And the main reason for that is, you know, Africa is a continent, 54 countries, which means you have 54 governments, each with their own unique interests. Yes, yes. So when you go there via the decentralized route, it simplifies or it makes it easier for each country to physically store its own data, but be able to contribute to the global cloud ecosystem or the continental uh data ecosystem without violating their data sovereignty and their privacy. So this is specifically why we are focusing on Africa. And beyond that, this approach now is more, I'd say what, energy efficient. Yeah. Because you don't have to build industrial data centers before you start making money or making an impact. Something as tiny as a laptop could be saving and contributing to this cloud. So this is technology specifically built for Africa. And also to mention that it's very climate friendly because there is never any ideal time. The moment your machine is powered up and running, yeah, it's contributing.

SPEAKER_01 7:16

Tell me a bit about cloud. Let's talk about cloud.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

The cloud, yes. So, like I mentioned. Break it down, break it down. It's the decentralized cloud for Africa. And it's it's named Amanzi, Amanzi Cloud.

SPEAKER_01 7:30

Amanzi. Amanzi means water.

SPEAKER_00 7:31

Yes, yes. It's a it is it's an development or so if that means water.

SPEAKER_01 7:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:36

And there is a reason why we chose the word Amanzi. So to us in life, you know, water is life. It is. And in the digital space, data is life. Yes. So we looked at, you know, there is a relationship between data and water. And in regards to infrastructure, ah, it flows, it leaks, it needs to be.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

Okay, I like I like the word.

SPEAKER_00 7:59

Exactly. That is why I love talking to non-technical people. But then you have even technical, so you know.

SPEAKER_01 8:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:04

It makes it easy. But yeah, data is like water. So when data is like water, what does a data center represent? Like the traditional data centers, the hyperscale ones, they represent your lakes, your dams.

SPEAKER_01 8:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:16

So you take an example where you know a giant lake sits in country A in Africa. Yes. So it means country A is the full control of that water on the continent. Other countries are not going to be as secure when they consider that their water is being stored elsewhere.

SPEAKER_01 8:31

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 8:32

Which is the current scenario. It's not just on the continent. Our water right now is sitting in Europe, it's sitting in the US or somewhere in Asia. That's where our data is sitting. So our approach now, the decentralization, is instead of drilling, instead of digging dams, rather, we are drilling balls at institutional levels or even at household levels. But the beauty is that these balls are interconnected. So it's a continental pipeline of balls that are capable of communicating or sending water to each other, such that if someone is, you know, making a special recipe here in Nairobi and they need Zimbabwean water, they can make a direct request to get that water from Zimbabwe to Nairobi. And the fact that it's, you know, it's through a pipeline, it's easier to monitor the traffic of the water. Yeah. Who's taking it, who's using it for what, how much is leaking, like you had mentioned earlier. So it's the same context with data, instead of having a hyperscale data center in one country, which there isn't technically anything wrong with that. Yeah. But you know, it's mainly the costs and the issues to do with the environment. We are now putting nodes, like literal nodes in each country. These are the ones representing the balls. And then these nodes come together at sort of an abstract level to form one cloud or one dam in which the water is physically sits in different places. But when you want to access it, it's as if you're just taking it from one source. So that's what the decentralized cloud is. It gives power to each country to physically own their data in the nodes in the data centers, but be able to securely trade it with other African countries and contribute to the global ecosystem.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

That is genius. Like how you have how you've compared data to water and the water flows and the scarcity. But but with everything, there's always government or a regulator or a leg legislation that will get in the way. How are you how are you managing all that?

SPEAKER_00 10:29

That is actually the beauty of decentralized technologies, which means that when we have nodes, let's say here in Nairobi, those nodes by default are legally bound by the laws and policies of that govern that country. As opposed to having a a data center where data from Kenya is going to be stored outside that country. You don't have control of it. So that's where we bring in data sovereignty. Where the nodes sit, the laws of the land are what we are going to obey.

SPEAKER_01 10:55

Okay. Is there an another place in the world that you've seen a model such as yours working?

SPEAKER_00 11:01

Yeah, yeah. So decentralized computers, the guys we just partnered with, they are currently doing most of their work in Europe and the USA. Okay. Because data sovereignty, again, is it's a global challenge. It's a global challenge, yeah. And I'll even give an example of why uh decentralized technologies are going to take off in the next few years. I'll give an example of Telegram, which is one of the most used platforms here in Africa and globally. So uh the the the CEO and founder of Telegram was invited by the guys from XAI, like from Elon Musk, Elon Musk's team, yeah. Invited them to bring their data to one of his data centers. Okay. And he declined, saying that he would rather put it in a decentralized cloud, which is privacy first. So it's already you're seeing one of the biggest social media companies moving towards decentralized cloud simply because they want that. So imagine when they come to Africa and the decentralized cloud that is there is ours.

SPEAKER_01 11:55

Yeah.

Chapter 4: Data Centres and Skills

SPEAKER_00 11:56

Be nice to me.

SPEAKER_01 11:57

What was it? We started with three planes, two cities.

SPEAKER_00 12:00

Two planes, three cities.

SPEAKER_01 12:01

Oh, two planes, three cities, an AI forum later.

SPEAKER_00 12:06

Data center tour.

SPEAKER_01 12:07

A data center tour.

SPEAKER_00 12:08

How was that data center tool? It was amazing. So I think it was only my second time in a data center. First time was in Zimbabwe. Yeah. But the second time now it was in a bigger data center here, ex-Africa data center.

SPEAKER_01 12:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:21

And I loved how they've built that place because data center you typically need power and backup power. Of course. And backup power for the backup power. And you need cooling, you need you know a connection to the internet, but not just you know any kind of connection. You need strong and proper uh fiber optics flowing into that. So I really loved the location of IX Africa because they are along the Mombasa route. Yes. So there's a lot of traffic coming from the coast into the continent. Yes. They are right next to a power source where they are always plugged in. So they have the power or the power that they need.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:57

They have the necessary cooling systems, the pickup power. And it was my first time to see a Starlink ground station, which is uh part of the infrastructure that they have there. So I think they have built a perfect model for what it's like to build for Africa. And they are still growing.

SPEAKER_01 13:12

Let's talk about skills. How many, how many are you in your organization?

SPEAKER_00 13:16

Yeah, so there is six for six of us. Okay. I'm the founder, computer science background. We have a blockchain lead, uh, Xavier, we call him Xavi. We have Argument is more on the design side of things. So every visual you see with the strategy brand is the guy who does that. We have Adele who helps us with the finances and things like that. And that we have Beauty, she's the head of AI. Yeah. So when as we are building the data sets, Gesara is the one who's going to make sure we are feeding the global ecosystem correctly. And that is the model-wise or yeah, so it's all the technical things to do with AI, starting from the collection of the data, the cleaning, the sanitization. Until it's an API that's fitting into people.

SPEAKER_01 13:59

When it goes live, what is that one project that you'll say, my dream has come to reality?

SPEAKER_00 14:06

When Amanzi Cloud can be accessed by anyone on the continent at the lowest price available.

SPEAKER_01 14:13

Good pricing is an issue, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:14

Yeah, I I would say uh my dream is come true because it means we now can build together as a continent from anywhere on the continent without losing our security, but getting the value of our creations. I would say, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:30

What do you need to make that dream come true? You've you've said relationships slash partnerships. What are your challenges at the moment that are hindering you from achieving that dream?

SPEAKER_00 14:39

Yeah, so it's always capital for most of us as startups because you know you are selling something that most people haven't seen. So it's always difficult to convince investors. And the capital ecosystem on its own on the continent, it's still uh something that is growing. And fortunately it's it's growing in the right direction at the right speed.

SPEAKER_01 14:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:00

And beyond capital, uh I think yes, pretty much capital because we have the talent. Yes. We have the relationships now. Yes. Once we have the funds to do accelerate the development, we are home and dry.

SPEAKER_01 15:12

And how long will that take?

SPEAKER_00 15:14

It's difficult to put numbers to it because again, there are the players that are going to be contributing to this journey that aren't us. But we in a perfect word where we have all the resources, our pilot is going to be running in the next three months.

SPEAKER_01 15:28

Okay, the happy path within three months. Yeah. The delayed path within five months.

SPEAKER_00 15:35

You never know.

SPEAKER_01 15:36

You never know. I'm a PM, give or take, managed by exception.

SPEAKER_00 15:40

Yeah, yeah, but I this is it's definitely this year. It's definitely this year. Yeah, yeah, we have already secured some relationships that have taken over.

SPEAKER_01 15:49

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 15:50

Thank you. Oh gosh. Like I said, it's Kenya and Magic, it's Nairobi.

SPEAKER_01 15:55

How integral are relationships to the tech ecosystem on the continent? Are you seeing them? As you know, to me, I'm a I'm a relationship person, so for me, that they're very important. But what would you say?

SPEAKER_00 16:07

So relationships are are the rails on which opportunities flow. Exactly. And I'll give an example of meeting you at the forum.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:15

I just told you what we were doing and what we were looking for. Yeah. And instantly you just said you need to talk to the guys from IX Africa. And you made the intro. And within 15 minutes of, no, it's not even 15 minutes, I think five minutes of the conversation with Clement.

SPEAKER_01 16:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:30

He invited me to take a tour of their data center.

SPEAKER_01 16:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:34

And I went the following day.

SPEAKER_01 16:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:36

And we concluded that tour with us partnering together with them supporting us in the pilot project we are going to be launching. So this is already showing the importance of relationships, especially when you're building from scratch, like we are. These are the big guys supporting a startup of a guy they just met the same day coming from outside of Nairobi.

SPEAKER_01 16:55

Actually, yeah, we yeah, we did. It was during lunch, really. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We were talking to the Vas Tech team was talking to him, and then we happened to be at the same table that invited you. Yeah, so we're not gatekeepers, are we?

SPEAKER_00 17:06

No, no, no. That's why I love Nairobi. Everyone has just been saying, Oh, I I I know I've heard what you're doing. You need to talk to Person A.

SPEAKER_01 17:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:14

You go to person A, they you know, you exchange value with them, and then they say you need to go to person B. Yeah. It's just been like a wildfire for us. It's just been a week, but a lot has happened. So everybody needs to come to Nairobi. Everyone needs to come to Nairobi, or we need to take Nairobi to everyone. I don't know which one is easier.

SPEAKER_01 17:31

I think I think CIO does a very good job of taking Nairobi to everyone. Yes. That's why you're here, right? You just came, but yeah, the DX5 team takes Nairobi to everybody. What got you interested in this particular? Because tech, the ecosystem, there's cloud, there's AI, there's cybersecurity, there's just to name a few, I'll always talk about AI. Tell us about that. What made you choose this particular juncture and decide this is the hill I'm willing to die on?

SPEAKER_00 17:58

So I think it goes back to to my childhood. So I I think I was I've been in the computer space since I was eight years old. I'm 29 now. Yeah. I went to study it in high school and through to university.

SPEAKER_01 18:10

So what did you study at uni?

SPEAKER_00 18:11

Computer science. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:13

Okay. And then gone.

SPEAKER_00 18:15

I studied computer science and after the after um after college, that was just around 2021.

SPEAKER_01 18:21

Right.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

That's when it was time to go into the job market. So my original idea was just I was just going to be a guy who creates stuff and sells the technology to the big guys, making easy money.

SPEAKER_01 18:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

Yeah, it was a rude awakening. I had ideas, but no one was willing to take up the ideas.

SPEAKER_01 18:42

Yeah. That's every founder's issue, isn't it? Big ideas, but we're stuck on resources. We can't help you. Come back when you have something tangible and so forth. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 18:54

So I thought it was just going to be as easy as telling people build ABC and you get paid for it.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:59

But yeah, after realizing that the world doesn't work like that, what pushed me was okay, if someone is not going to take up these technologies, these ideas, I have to build them myself to show the impact. And I just thought I was going to do that for like a few months, and yeah, the few months tend to the past five years now.

SPEAKER_01 19:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:15

And why AI in particular is 2023. Yes. I was doing a short uh, I was working as a contractor for a company that was doing data annotation.

SPEAKER_01 19:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

So as an individual, I'd always been a big fan of automation and AI. But working at that company, like uh that's what that's the closest I had been to AI, and it's developed my understanding of how AI works. So it's when it's where I developed the understanding that without the data sets, or rather, what the kind of data sets that you feed into the AI determine how smart and safe your AI is. Yes, yes. So essentially, yeah, from that day, that's when I realized if Africa is going to benefit from these chat GBTs, the Geminis, and all these LLMs, we need to be contributing our own data. And it can't be done by guys from outside the continent because they are not from the continent. They will not understand our unique needs and the you know the yeah, essentially the unique needs of the African people. We have to do it ourselves.

SPEAKER_01 20:10

Are we reacting to trends or are we working with our own strengths?

SPEAKER_00 20:15

I think we're working on our own strengths. Yes, it's easy to get lost in the trends.

SPEAKER_01 20:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

Because it's exciting, that's what everyone is talking about. Yeah. But I think that's part of what this journey with strategy has taught me.

SPEAKER_01 20:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:27

You can only talk about these things so much. Yes. Up until to a certain point, like, okay, you've been talking about this. What are you building?

SPEAKER_01 20:35

Exactly. Was the product? Was the tangible product, service, build infrastructure?

SPEAKER_00 20:39

So what are you offering us beyond just your words? Beyond the awareness that you're bringing, beyond the education. So I would say, yeah, we are working with working on our strengths as we move towards into the future. And looking at the future of African AI in general, again, it goes back to the infrastructure. So I'm I'm really happy that there are organizations like the AI Hub for Sustainable Development, which is uh part of what is what we are part of as uh as innovators, and how I ended up being invited to the forum.

SPEAKER_01 21:07

Oh, so you were specifically invited. Yeah, yeah. Oh, oh, you're the innovator program. Yeah, yeah. Okay, there's an innovator program, there's the builders program, which I'm a part of, infrastructure builder. Oh, brilliant. I love it. What does the founder of 2026 need to be aware of? Because you've done this for five years. Yeah. But you've seen the changes, the the dips, the highs. What what would you say?

SPEAKER_00 21:32

Uh I think it's what the continent is now focusing on sovereignty, data sovereignty.

SPEAKER_01 21:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:37

Yeah. It's and making sure that the infrastructure that you build on is from within the continent. You can build global relationships, but make sure you your impact is local.

SPEAKER_01 21:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:46

And it's serving the people that you're designing it for.

SPEAKER_01 21:49

Serving the people that you design it for. Do you have do you take part in policy discussions in Zimbabwe? Because tech cannot tech goes hand in hand with policy, right? It just doesn't stop at the build. It's, you know, you want to be in the room.

SPEAKER_00 22:04

Yeah. How has that been? Right. So it's a cycle where innovation feeds into policy. Yeah. And policy feeds into innovation.

SPEAKER_01 22:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:11

With policy making sure that it doesn't limit innovation. Yes. And innovation disrupting policy every time. And our contribution to the local ecosystem has been in participation in uh local uh hackathons during the inception of my ingenious, the founder. We were able to contribute a lot there. And uh it's only recently, I think towards the end of last year, where the national AI AI strategy for Zimbabwe was released. So prior to its release, they did consultations with multiple stakeholders within the space. Yes, yes. And we were able to contribute uh through the different channels that they took to us.

SPEAKER_01 22:45

Oh, and how was that process?

SPEAKER_00 22:47

It makes you think.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

Yes, that's what I wanted to say. Yeah, you have to be a thinker, right?

SPEAKER_00 22:51

It makes you think.

SPEAKER_01 22:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:53

That's okay, I'm building this, but what does it mean for our people?

SPEAKER_01 22:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:56

And it also makes you think about what the policy means for you. Yes and how you need to prepare for the impact of the policy later on.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

And that's why you need to be in the room because you you represent innovators who not necessarily be uh in the room or have the kind of a level of access you have, right? Exactly. And I'm I'm guessing that's been a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_00 23:16

Yeah, it's it's it's fun and it's also scary.

SPEAKER_01 23:19

Well, yeah, what makes it scary?

SPEAKER_00 23:21

Because you are interacting with people from a different space. So you you do not know how people will perceive certain things. Yeah. So I come from a science background, computer science background. And in science, there isn't a lot of diplomacy.

SPEAKER_01 23:34

No, there isn't. So that's the part I'm struggling with. Yeah, I come from a political science background where we're very diplomatic, and I'm in a tech environment. No, just do the damn work.

SPEAKER_00 23:45

Yes, you need to be able to be a diplomatic innovator or a diplomatic entrepreneur, is how I look at myself now. Yeah. You need to be able to communicate with both sides. So yeah, that's the scary part because I wasn't trained in any kind of diplomacy. I'm just a tech guy. But you learn along the way.

SPEAKER_01 24:00

So you're a technologist who is pivoting or has to pivot into the world of diplomacy because tech is changing everything. It's power, we're politic, we do business, everything at a global level. Exactly. Well, I I was saying to a few people during that forum, saying, I'm fundraising, yes, but where you don't have money, where you don't want to give me money, where you don't understand why you're gonna give me money, which is it's it's a scarce resource. What can we work on together? What can we partner on together? Yeah. Because there's something you have that I don't have, something I have that you don't have. So how do we uh there's a the there's a very good professor, lecturer by Alma Mata who calls it collaboration. Yeah, you know, collaborate where you need to collaborate, compete where you need to where you need to compete. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, collaboration in the age of intelligence. What does that look like? And as Africans, are we doing that? Or are we st are we stuck in silos from a founder's lens?

SPEAKER_00 25:00

Yeah, from a founder's lens, we we were still in the silos because of the absence of the proper strategies to get us out of the silos.

SPEAKER_01 25:08

Right.

SPEAKER_00 25:09

Yeah. So thankfully for the continent strategies building a Manzi Cloud, which specifically does that.

SPEAKER_01 25:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

Connecting those silos to form one thing. Yeah. And I see the adoption of this technology, you know, going uh up and high as we move slowly into the future.

SPEAKER_01 25:27

And what what are the risks of not doing something similar to what you're doing? What are we gonna regret if we don't back uh innovations such as yours? Because because there's a risk to not seeing why you're very important in the ecosystem.

SPEAKER_00 25:43

There are so many people that are scared of what AI will do to us. Yeah. I I think those nightmares will come to life if we don't contribute to the creation of AI.

SPEAKER_01 25:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:52

Because it's going to be built on systems and data that doesn't reflect people.

SPEAKER_01 25:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:57

And the worst part of it is if it was fed bad data outside the continent, it's going to destroy the continent.

SPEAKER_01 26:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

So if you're not contributing, you're killing yourself there.

SPEAKER_01 26:07

If you're not contributing, you're killing yourself there. Should we then incentivize? Because there's always that. How do you incentivize people to come under the same vision? Interest aside. But but you know we're a continent of stakeholders and interest holders.

SPEAKER_00 26:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:23

Are you finding it difficult to navigate those interests and stakeholders and ETC ETC?

SPEAKER_00 26:32

Yes, it was difficult, but I was fortunate enough to build the best relationships earlier on.

SPEAKER_01 26:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:38

So for instance, like I mentioned, we're now part under the AI hub for sustainable development, which is opening, you know, gateway to gateways to so many opportunities.

SPEAKER_01 26:46

It is.

SPEAKER_00 26:46

So the barriers are coming down. I think that's what I would say.

SPEAKER_01 26:50

Okay. So we're doing a good job.

SPEAKER_00 26:51

Oh, you're doing a great job.

SPEAKER_01 26:52

It could be better. As a continent, sorry.

SPEAKER_00 26:55

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:56

But it could be better.

SPEAKER_00 26:57

It could be better. It needs to be faster as well.

SPEAKER_01 27:00

Is time not on our side?

Chapter 6: Conclusion

SPEAKER_00 27:02

Is it ever on anyone's side? Well, my my opinion is it's it's a matter of agency because we've just been consuming and consuming for the past 200, 300 years. If you keep going back, the trend is almost the same. So we need to change that, to change that in this fourth industrial revolution because we're not sure what comes next. But what we know for sure of what's coming next is it's going to be data dependent and AI dependent. Yeah. So if we miss out, our con if you do not contribute at this stage, yeah, the next one is killing us.

SPEAKER_01 27:34

Any last parting shots?

SPEAKER_00 27:36

As a founder.

SPEAKER_01 27:37

Yes. Or as a new as a new citizen of Kenya. It's just like you've just not acquired the citizenship, but we've I think I'll I'll give you a Kenyan name. You look like a Camal. Yes, that can be a new Kenyan name.

SPEAKER_00 27:49

So as Kamal, the new Kenyan citizen, yeah, essentially what you're doing already, take Nairobi to the continent.

SPEAKER_01 27:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:58

Plug more talent from the continent into the ecosystem that you have built.

SPEAKER_01 28:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:03

And I think that Africa's transformation and Africa's future is going to be saved from here. And then as a founder, my parting shows would be be brave.

SPEAKER_01 28:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:14

A lot of things never happen for us simply because we're scared. And this is not about entrepreneurship only. No. It's about anything in life. Yeah. Like that girl or that guy, ask them out. If you want a specific contract, you know, shoot your short, go there and try. If you want to be a musician, you know, sing, we'll laugh at you at first, but you never know where it goes.

SPEAKER_01 28:37

If you want to start start a podcast, do it.

SPEAKER_00 28:40

Yeah. If you want to start a podcast, go for it. Yeah. Because I I I think that the real answer is in the journey.

SPEAKER_01 28:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:46

It's never clear from day one. But as you move and as you walk, that's when you learn, you know, this is what these are the do's, these are the don'ts. Yeah. This is how I can improve the system. You get the lessons and you you keep on growing. And another thing is found us now, be ready to pivot. You know, I I can't tell how many times we've pivoted because it starts to get where you needed to. Yeah. It's not. Too many times, actually. Uh the first thing we built was a data collection platform. Okay. So it's like think Google Forms, but for WhatsApp. Right. And we were serving nonprofit organizations in Zimbabwe, Southern Africa, who are trying to run surveys. You know, so they were using hard copy papers and trying to use Google Forms, which Google Forms was expensive, and then they're facing network challenges. WhatsApp, on the other hand, is the most used platform on the continent. Yes. People already know how to use it. So it's user-friendly. It's multimodal, which means you can collect pictures, videos, audios, GPS coordinates. So developing these chatbots that would enable organizations to run surveys on the continent. And I think a few months after the launch, that's when what happened? I think there was a withdrawal funding on nonprofit organizations like some of their sponsors and funders faced challenges. Which means there wasn't a lot of business for us there. And what came next was us now, okay, saying we would build this data collection platform so that we would help create data sets. So what's next for us is to help organizations with data to connect them to like connecting data-rich African institutions to the global ecosystem. So I think that one was the longest stretch that we took with minor people in between, but the core idea remained the same. And then as we're building that, I mentioned earlier as we're building the decentralized data like house, that's when you realized that okay, it's a software problem. We need to have the hardware on which our software sits, which is now why we are building the cloud. And the cloud is going to have a, we call it a cloud ecosystem because there are going to be a lot of activities and services happening in there. So yeah, you you you you pivot. The mission remains the same, just that how you deliver on that mission and how you make it a reality is what changes.

SPEAKER_01 31:00

So you pivot and the realities. You're so philosophical. Are you sure you're a computer scientist? You've had to be philosophical and diplomatic, like you said earlier.

SPEAKER_00 31:10

Yeah. Yeah, you actually like pinpointed with one of my gifts. I think I take this one from my parents. Yeah. They've done a great job in making sure that you don't stay, you know, competent in one space. They teach you everything.

SPEAKER_01 31:26

Yeah, you have to be multifaceted. The winners of tomorrow are multifaceted. Yeah, we were raised the same. We were also told if you're gonna have an audience with Ben Queen King, you need to know what to say to him. But whereas if you're in another part of the world, you should be able to converse with those individuals. We're all human at the end of the day. Oh, did I think our parents went to the same parenting school at this rate?

SPEAKER_00 31:49

The African parenting school.

SPEAKER_01 31:50

The African parenting school where where it was 80% less how to discipline your child and 20% everything else. Anyway, I've loved having you here. I'm I'm grateful that we got to meet, connect, and now we're talking tech and we're going to amplify it for the rest of the continent.

SPEAKER_00 32:08

Yeah, thank you. This was my first time talking to a Bridget and character, so thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01 32:15

Bridget. What can I say? Dear gentle reader.

SPEAKER_00 32:23

So thank you for having us here. I always say us because I'm just representing my teammates.

SPEAKER_01 32:28

You are, yes, yes, yes, yes. Well, that's it from me, Stella Kishui. Thank you. Bye.