25 Year Journey: It's Never the Tech, It's the People

Guest: Serge Blockmans - Independent Advisor | Change Management

Go live is a moment. Transformation is a behavior change that survives the moment.

I sit down with Serge Blockmans, who helped bring SAP and ERP into the East African market, to revisit what digital transformation looked like in Kenya before the term became fashionable. Back then, organizations wanted controls, governance, and trustworthy data, not buzzwords. That foundation still shapes today’s ERP implementation decisions across finance, procurement, logistics, HR, and payroll.

From there, we get honest about why so many programs stall after the system launches. Serge makes the case that “best practice” can become a convenient excuse to skip business analysis, process design, and real ownership. We delve into why a PMO is still often treated as optional, why change management is sometimes confused with project management, and how resistance to change can manifest in various settings, from boardrooms to procurement committees to frontline super users.

Then we step into AI transformation. Embedded AI in SAP and ERP often resembles an advanced form of robotic process automation: faster tasks, fewer clicks, quicker analytics. However, if your processes and data are disorganized, AI can exacerbate the mess even faster. We also explore agentic AI, native AI apps, and the uncomfortable truth that your organization remains legally accountable even when an “autonomous” workflow makes the call.

If you lead technology, transformation, or operations, you’ll leave with clearer definitions of success, sharper questions to ask before buying tools, and a strong reminder to protect the change management budget. 

Subscribe, share this episode with a colleague, and leave a review with the biggest people challenge you’ve seen in transformation.

Credits
Host: 

• Stella Gichuhi

Producer: 

• James Njoroge

Executive Producers:

• Harry Hare
• Agutu Dan

Transcript

Introduction

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Change management, project management. All terms you'd expect to go hand in hand in the digital transformation world. I sit this week with Serge Lockmans, a gentleman who's very passionate about change. He introduced SAP, that's the enterprise resource planning system, into Kenya many years ago. And we talk about the journey. We touch on upskilling, reskilling, cross-skilling. It's important. What AI transformation means for an organization. And one thing remains: people are still people. Join me, Stella Kishui, as we unpack this conversation. The year is 2001. Nairobi is experiencing somewhat of a transformation. And then a gentleman by the name of Serge lands in Nairobi. Walk us through your journey as being the gentleman who introduced SAP into the East African market. Yeah? Yeah. Talk me through that journey. We're in 2026 now, but let's take it back.

SPEAKER_00 0:59

So SAP in those days had their headquarters for Africa and still have actually in Johannesburg.

SPEAKER_02 1:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

And they met me in Ivory Coast, where I was finishing the SAP implementation at the African Development Bank.

SPEAKER_02 1:13

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 1:14

Which was a three-year project.

SPEAKER_02 1:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:16

And then they asked me to come to Nairobi because they wanted to open a regional office in East Africa based in Kenya.

SPEAKER_02 1:24

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

So we already had one client at the time. Because actually SAP was introduced in the region by Kenya Power. So I came in 2001 and You never left.

SPEAKER_01 1:39

What was Nairobi like then? We were like the was the term digital transformation around then? Is it a new age term, a new age tech?

SPEAKER_00 1:48

That's a new age tech time. Yeah. Right. Clients were not looking for transformation. They were looking for controls for governance. Yeah. Having a system that can give them more reliable information about how the business is doing. Okay. Both in private and in public sector.

SPEAKER_01 2:14

So so it was more about let's look like we know what we're doing or we need to know what we're doing. Who was the user at the time? Was it the finance department or strategy, accountants? Why did they want to introduce ERP?

SPEAKER_00 2:29

Yeah, I think so ERP in that sense was was was new.

SPEAKER_02 2:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

And yes, for a long time, ERP was uh equated to finance, finance and administration.

SPEAKER_01 2:38

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:39

Logistics, procurement.

SPEAKER_01 2:41

And then so it's 2001, and then up how long did you stay in Nairobi? How how arduous was the setup? You've been offered this job.

SPEAKER_00 2:50

Yes, so I come over. Yes, we started operation. Uh we started with uh three, four people. Yeah. Uh small office on Raftar Road in an apartment.

SPEAKER_02 2:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:59

And I stayed, the initial period I stayed was for three years. Okay. Because in 2004 I was asked by CP to to relocate to Johannesburg to look after their sub-Saharan services on the continent.

SPEAKER_02 3:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

And then I returned in 2006. So the initial period was three years. Okay. During that time, we then had Kenya Pipeline and a few other organizations that were coming on board. Actually, the reason why CP asked me to move to Johannesburg is that as an ERP vendor, you're selling software is one thing. Yes. You want the client to use it and to be successful with it and grow your market. Exactly. And the problem we had was lack of implementation partners. So somebody had to take responsibility. And NSIP said, okay, let's take that responsibility.

SPEAKER_01 3:46

Of implementation.

SPEAKER_00 3:48

Of implementation while building local capacity. So my role was to go look after the projects, do the quality assurance, and then guides and advise the local partners which were all small, new, and it was a very exciting time. Yeah. But make sure that everything went as as as per the global the global rules, if you want.

SPEAKER_01 4:11

So you've okay. 2006 you're back.

SPEAKER_00 4:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 4:15

At this point, have you seen any significant change in attitudes towards ERP or any major enterprise resource planning tool? Or is it still sac stagnant?

SPEAKER_00 4:25

But at that time we now already had so that's a few years later, and and and customers were using the solution in deeper, a little deeper, not just in finance, but uh human resources uh payroll on these other all these other functionalities.

SPEAKER_01 4:39

So I have a theory, I shall study about this theory, about implementation of any tech has to be context specific. I want to hear it from you. You you so you had experience in Ivory Coast, had experience in South Africa, and now that's Kenya. Are there nuances of cultural differences where tech is concerned, or is it the same across the board?

SPEAKER_00 5:04

My experience, I I saw, and I'll take the Ivory Coast program that we had with African Development Bank as an example.

SPEAKER_02 5:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:14

Was very much to what we saw, what went right and what went wrong with with with with with Project Theory and with Project Theory in Kenya.

SPEAKER_02 5:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:24

Some of those issues are, if not all, related to people.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

So it's not about the tech, it's the people.

The 3.5-Month Miracle

SPEAKER_00 5:33

The the resistance. Yeah. Resistance to change. That remains the chain. The main, the main, the main challenge.

SPEAKER_01 5:39

Okay. Government culture and private sector culture. Um the continent. Yeah?

SPEAKER_00 5:46

Different. Very different. And I think that's um that's also a global aspect. I don't think that just in Africa. I mean the No, it's not, no. I have one private sector company where we did uh at that time, that was in 2012, we did the fastest ERP implementation ever in uh in sub-Saharan Africa, which was three months for a full full-free EFP. Can I name them?

SPEAKER_01 6:10

Yeah, you can name them. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 6:13

Bitcoin. Okay. Three months and a half from start to finish. How many modules? Everything, including plant maintenance. The only part that was not done was at that time, which came later was HR and Payable. Yeah, they came up. Finance, plant maintenance, projects, projects, everything. In three and a half months. Three and a half months.

SPEAKER_01 6:31

And how did they manage to do that?

SPEAKER_00 6:33

Because they had a leader who said it had to be done.

SPEAKER_01 6:36

Oh, they had buy-in.

SPEAKER_00 6:38

Yeah, the leader who was very involved and said it has it has to be done and it's not gonna be otherwise. And if you think it has to be different or you think you need extra budget, you come to my office.

SPEAKER_01 6:48

Is there such a thing as agile in ERP implementations? Can you go agile? Can you afford to go agile?

SPEAKER_00 6:54

You can. And at a later stage, that became the method. Okay. Yeah. So if you look at uh project methodologies currently, including SAP, uh activate is an is an agile methodology. Oh so we went from from the older models to newer models. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 7:15

Okay. So then you did a stint at Oracle.

unknown 7:19

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

Right? After SAP.

SPEAKER_01 7:22

How is that?

SPEAKER_00 7:24

That was a very different organization.

SPEAKER_01 7:26

Yeah, because SAP and Oracle are very different. This the mindset is different. I when I I first got my hands on Oracle EBS in 2017, tried SAP, I said this is not for me, and then the ERP world was, yeah, now I'm here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:41

So now that's culture.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:44

So SAP was founded by German engineers.

SPEAKER_02 7:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 7:48

And even today that is still very much the culture of the company.

SPEAKER_03 7:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:53

Whereas Oracle was founded by a very successful businessman who knows how to sell stuff.

SPEAKER_02 8:02

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 8:03

So one of the one of the eye-openers for me, having come from a from an organization that only sells ERPs, is you come and find yourself. So I was asked, uh the position that Oracle I I had was was given was uh help us position the SaaS because that was already the event of the SaaS.

SPEAKER_02 8:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:22

And and I was fighting with, except for my team, we were fighting with everybody else.

SPEAKER_02 8:27

Why?

SPEAKER_00 8:28

Because you have the the consult the sales force there is that the trying to sell the boxes.

SPEAKER_02 8:33

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 8:34

So they'll go and tell the client, never mind the applications, guys, never mind SARS. Yeah. Stay on the boxes, use whatever software you want, you can run on Oracle.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

So what's their market share on the continent compared to SAP?

SPEAKER_00 8:49

What I know, and and that has not changed, is that between Oracle, which you find mainly living in Kenya, financial sector in the telcos.

SPEAKER_01 8:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:58

SAP has very much stayed within Barastatel's energy.

SPEAKER_01 9:02

Yeah, the airport as well.

SPEAKER_00 9:04

Manufacturing the airports and the tra the uh transportation, they call it.

SPEAKER_01 9:09

Oh yeah. The transport industry, yes, yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:12

So it's it's it's a bit like historically they've they've they found like this is my turf, this is oh of course you you try to for example if you look at the success of Oracle on the continent, if Mrs. I don't know, current state, but there was a time that uh there was at least three, four, five countries that had Oracle as the central financial management system short country for governance.

Chapter 2: What Transformation Actually Means

SPEAKER_01 9:33

Yeah, yeah. And so once you have that with one, then two, then three, it's yeah, it's it's it's it's the norm on the continent, isn't it? What's what's what's the government next door doing? What system are they using? Okay. And now I don't want to I don't want to go too far. So there's your Oracle days, there's your SAP days, and now there's transformation. Yes, yeah. Are you you're fully in transformation now, right? Correct. Yeah. And how has that been?

SPEAKER_00 10:00

It's the only way to get it on to lever value.

SPEAKER_01 10:04

How has that been? As somebody who talks about implementation and execution and transformation, how has that been, honestly? Let's be honest.

SPEAKER_00 10:13

It's the toughest conversation. Yes. And and transformation is not it's not a given.

SPEAKER_01 10:18

No.

SPEAKER_00 10:20

You see, implementing an ERP in many projects, in most projects, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:27

Is the moment that we work towards.

SPEAKER_02 10:30

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 10:30

And then it's like, now it's done. But it's never done, is it? Exactly. Yeah. And that and transformation, that is not transformation. Transformation is are we doing different things?

SPEAKER_01 10:41

Now maybe you can answer my my there's a question I've been asking since I've been in Kenya for a few years. It's rare for me to come across BAs business analysts and your BA in um project world, not your BA in finance world, your requirements gathering professionals. Why is that? Because they are a critical part of your transformation journey.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

They are, but we've gone we've gone through a time where and that's how the vendors position their their products. They will actually come and tell you you don't need you don't need to do too much of blueprinting. You don't need to. There was a time and that everybody was talking about best practices.

SPEAKER_02 11:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:25

So we've built this thing. Yeah. So this is how an invoice process is done. This is who approves it. This is and so take that. And and and and and and that's part of what you were saying, which is you haven't done the the BA stuff. You you've not looked at is that the best way for us. Exactly. Or is there even another better way that is not supported by the ERE?

SPEAKER_02 11:49

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:50

But uh best practice has been a fashional fashionable word in the sales cycles for a long time.

SPEAKER_02 11:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:56

Which is you just adopt what's there. And you tell you convince the customer that by doing that you you transform. Because maybe in one process you have like, I don't know, 15 decision points or approval points.

SPEAKER_02 12:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:11

And the software does it in three or four.

SPEAKER_02 12:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:14

And so that's like immediate return on investment because you're not cutting, you're cutting out a few scapes in that process.

SPEAKER_01 12:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:23

But that's not transformation. No. It's still not transformation.

SPEAKER_01 12:26

No, it's not. What about the role of the PMO and the PM? How have you seen that transform? Has it transformed? Are we appreciative of it? Anybody who comes to me and says, You're a PM, how have you navigated? I haven't, I've changed.

SPEAKER_00 12:42

What are you seeing? I still see a lot of clients even today who don't think they need a PMO.

SPEAKER_03 12:47

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 12:48

Who who leave it to the implementation partners and to when they come, they say we will manage this thing. And even today that's still that's that's still the case. That has not changed since uh then uh it's a question of it it always comes back also and and then goes for change management as well. It comes back to a but the question of budget.

SPEAKER_02 13:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 13:10

Can we afford another one or two people who are just uh perform that PMO board?

SPEAKER_02 13:16

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:17

No, no, we have a project manager that's PM equals PMO, which is which is No, it's not. But that that is the uh that is still the case in in uh in many many scenarios.

SPEAKER_01 13:29

In in Kenya alone, because uh the other countries is not the same. Is it is it an African thing or is it what is it?

SPEAKER_00 13:36

I've seen it most of the times. Yeah, most of the times. In larger organizations, then the budgets are also bigger. The PMO has has found its whatever not that is then what you would expect the PMO to do, or still a cluster of project management. Yeah, that's a different that's still something that one needs to look at.

The Gunpoint Story

SPEAKER_01 13:59

But I think a lot of EIP projects come and go live without without without yeah, without the without the individuals. So we talk about people, right? Where does resistance surface most? Because people is abroad, right?

SPEAKER_00 14:15

At every single stage of the process. From from from from the the moment you start the conversation about we want to bring in this solution into this organization, yeah, or such a solution, yeah, all the way through the implementation, the goal life, and and and and whether it's been adopted. And why I'm saying that is that I've known situations where when the topic came to the board, people were literally threatened. Now these are board members. These are board members. So I've I've had a this is a long time ago, but I've had a situation where a budget director was threatened by by gunpoint about we we don't we don't really need to do it this way, and definitely not that solution. What yes, yeah. So so from that point. And then of course there is the whole the whole how do we now procure, how do we choose the right solution. So even at that time, yeah, you'll find that if you have uh a committee that comes together and says, Okay, yeah, let's do requirements gathering. So again in an organization you have people who have more power, yeah, more influence, less influence, less power.

SPEAKER_02 15:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

And so what you end up buying is is definitely tweaked.

SPEAKER_01 15:38

As per people's interests.

SPEAKER_00 15:39

As per people's interests.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:41

Which means that you already have resistance there. Because then it's like yeah, they're bought a solution because it has a good HR. So I don't like the payroll. Oh dear. But I they didn't listen to what I had to say. So you can imagine as a super user, that process will become a problem with implementation. So but it's it's it's throughout the whole the whole process. It's throughout the whole process. And what I'm seeing, yeah, even very recent experiences, processes that I'm following, even from afar, yeah, it's still happening the same way because we remain human beings, right?

SPEAKER_01 16:16

So we so the tech, the tech is evolved, has evolved, there's new modules, there's like you said, there's an agile module for SAP, but the people are still the people.

SPEAKER_00 16:27

There's AI, but the people are still the people.

SPEAKER_01 16:32

And oh, how do you then get out of that?

SPEAKER_00 16:35

I think in many scenarios, in many organizations and companies, the o the ownership is is is is is where it starts. So ownership of the project? Yes. Okay. And am I accountable or are you accountable for the outcome of this transformation? Yeah. So and that's still something that we we leave on the table most of the time.

SPEAKER_01 16:56

So are are you like talking about like a strategic racy or going beyond that?

SPEAKER_00 17:01

I'm talking about co-value creation.

SPEAKER_01 17:04

Co-value creation.

SPEAKER_00 17:05

That conversation of that, which is something that the EP vendors don't like, implementation plan partners really don't like it. Yeah. But in the end, it's a client who ends up with with the risk of not delivering what it's supposed to deliver. And the losses that come with that. But so I think it's it's that co-value creation is still that con the conversation that doesn't happen. They they come vendors come with business cases that are I I call them IDC numbers. Which again, nobody's really at in the end, when you look at the paperwork and the signatures that you can put on the paperwork, nobody's really gonna look at the end and say, We missed this, we missed this target.

SPEAKER_01 17:46

Oh my god, this whole time I've been thinking uh transformation, transformation.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

We've done it, we've hit it, but make no mistake, there are several I know of a lot of successful ERP implementations. Yeah, that this success but in the end, did they all deliver on the promise that is that is the because they will all find as that 10 or 20 or 30 percent that that that was up there? So that that is the reality.

SPEAKER_01 18:11

That's what I was about to ask. Do you have to define success? Is success from the length of the vendor who managed to sell to this client, that's their success. Yeah, or success when the client is able to adopt and onboard the organization onto this new system or software, whatever it is, and it's delivering value. Now it's that side that tends to fail right.

SPEAKER_00 18:36

Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_01 18:38

When it goes wrong, that's what it goes wrong, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:41

Or we how she's how shall it's not let's let's just keep quiet. Let's wait to the late version.

Project Manager Vs Change Manager

SPEAKER_01 18:47

Oh, oh dear. What's the critical difference? I know this, but to whoever's gonna listen to this, what's the key difference between project management and change management? It sounds very simple, but we always get the two confused, don't we? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:06

And there were the times, so let me just say there was even a time that when you were talking to a project manager and you were talking about change management.

SPEAKER_01 19:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:15

They were actually thinking about the code.

SPEAKER_01 19:18

What? Okay, okay. Change requests to change requests.

SPEAKER_00 19:23

There was a time that even the terminology was not uh was not the known. Yeah. But yeah, the the this between project management you say the project manager is there to to watch over milestones and risks and issues. Risks and issues, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

And testing dependencies and all that. Yeah, testing, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:40

Where a change manager only looks after have we from the beginning taken the people along? Are they still with us?

SPEAKER_01 19:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:51

Are they still with us?

SPEAKER_01 19:52

Where have they dropped off and why did they drop off?

SPEAKER_00 19:54

Who dropped off and why? Yeah. Because in a in a if you do change management, you will you will actually know from the beginning what the resistance is going to be.

SPEAKER_02 20:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 20:03

And and and and throughout the whole the whole process survey, they need to go hand in hand from from day one.

SPEAKER_02 20:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:09

Change management in a lot of organizations is emailed from the CEO saying, we are buying this expensive software.

SPEAKER_01 20:18

You need to implement it.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

And then go in the old days, it was like, okay, Google ERP. I don't know how about how we did it when Google didn't exist here, but but uh what is ERP? Ah, who? Wow, okay. Yeah, you're gonna lose my job. Yeah, not with me. No, with you. So the next training that happens, I'm not around. And that I've seen happen so many times and so many times, and so many times.

SPEAKER_01 20:39

Oh dear.

SPEAKER_00 20:39

And that will never change.

Chapter 3: New Tech & The Mess Inside

SPEAKER_01 20:40

No. I don't like that. Okay, so then now we're living in the age of AI. Organizations are not transforming the way you and I know they ought to be transforming, or we think we yeah. Then now there's a layer called AI that everybody wants to introduce. Is again, what are your insights?

SPEAKER_00 20:59

Uh I'll start with an anecdote. So a few years ago, everybody was talking, or a lot of people were talking about RPA, robotic process automation.

SPEAKER_02 21:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:10

In a way, the AI that the SAPs, the oracles are embedding in their EIPs today is an advanced, I would say it just name it like that, an advanced version of robotic process automation.

SPEAKER_02 21:23

Yes, it is.

SPEAKER_00 21:24

So they're building technology, they're putting something in there that that that that makes sure that your task is done faster.

SPEAKER_02 21:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:31

You don't do the task, you just check at the beginning and at the end. And so that is AI within within ERPs today.

SPEAKER_02 21:39

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:39

Now the one issue or challenge with that is that if it's a mess inside. If it's all right, if if you have a mess inside your system, okay.

SPEAKER_01 21:50

Oh, if you have a mess inside the system, okay. With that mess to deliver the mess.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

It's gonna give you the analytics faster. So so So but the ERP vendors are positioning AI as that efficiency. There are startups startups now they're building native AI applications.

SPEAKER_02 22:09

Yes, they are, yes.

SPEAKER_00 22:10

Um the question remains if you have a native AI, which is gonna replace your ERP, you have an autonomous an autonomous agent that's gonna drive a process.

SPEAKER_02 22:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:25

But in the end, you're still liable, responsible legally for that for that process.

SPEAKER_02 22:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:33

So in how far those native AI solutions are really gonna replace ERPs, I don't think so. I think And they shouldn't. I think the ERP core with the main as we used to call it in the old days, is the same thing. We used to call it the one version of the truth. We will still need that. And maybe native AI workflows can can work with that and and it can be more cost efficient. Now, where the ERP vendors have to treat carefully is that if I tomorrow decide that I can deploy 15 agents and I can maybe do away with half of my workforce procurement finance departments, where does that leave the vendor?

SPEAKER_02 23:14

Yeah, where does it leave the vendor?

SPEAKER_00 23:16

But is is an AI agent, is that a seat that you have to pay for? So the whole the whole commercial model will have to be thought through again. So you you're going to get something like, okay, Ms. The client, so how do you think you're clever with your AI agents out there?

SPEAKER_02 23:34

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:35

But we're gonna charge you for the ERP core.

SPEAKER_01 23:39

So that's what the vendors are doing now.

SPEAKER_00 23:41

That's where we're going.

SPEAKER_01 23:42

That's where we're going. And have you seen uh is that a success story? Let me use terms we all like using in the industry. Do you have a success story you can share? Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:51

No.

SPEAKER_01 23:51

ERP AI, no?

SPEAKER_00 23:53

No, I'm not going across any yet. As in no.

SPEAKER_01 23:57

How is the country faring on with its digital transformation agenda?

SPEAKER_00 24:02

I think we still have a long way to go. A long way to go.

SPEAKER_01 24:08

Why do we still have a long way to go be as honest as possible? Why do we still have a long way to go? Why do you think we still have a long way to go?

SPEAKER_00 24:16

It's it's it's the human factor, it's it's it's human resistance. You know, we always when we talk about Kenya, the second thing that comes is MPSA.

SPEAKER_02 24:24

It is.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

Because I mean that's a a genius.

SPEAKER_02 24:28

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:29

A genius application. I mean, but that's because it's so easy to use and at a time, I mean it solves and it solved and still solves so many problems that that were there. Yes. When it comes to how do I send some money to my own country who needs to pay for it.

SPEAKER_03 24:45

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:46

And and I think in in many ways, when it comes to the traditional back to the the IT world, when you come to the EIP solutions, okay, we still we still far from having that ideal that everybody can accept that. Is really easy.

SPEAKER_02 25:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

That everybody's happy with. And as I said, the adoption of that, have we done the proper change management? Yeah. So we still have a longer.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

We still have a longer change. And is it because it's an idea, not idea. It's so in my readings, I'm tinkering with would it be because that Oracle and SAP were not, I mean, was it not built for the African market? It's a solution that you're introducing into a very diverse market. So would it be easier if organizations use homegrown solutions that understand that specific market? It's a bit of a catchment, too. There's pros and cons, but what are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_00 25:48

There are successful homegrown solutions.

SPEAKER_01 25:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:51

Then again, there's the fact that the finance process remains a finance process.

SPEAKER_01 25:56

Regardless of where you are in the world. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:00

So there are parts of such a solution that are not necessarily where the requirements are not so necessarily so different between an African context or the European Northern American context. As I mentioned before, the best practices approach and telling the clients, I mean, if you do it this way, it's going to be this many times more efficient, and then so you get your reculs faster. That's also terrible. I've never really believed it. But so do we need to localize the implementation? Yeah. Yes, to a large extent.

SPEAKER_01 26:31

Yeah, I'm thinking. So do organizations take time to go through those questions you're asking? Because if we're in the age of AI, you still need to ask those questions. Why do you need AI in your organization? And if they're not doing that for AI, how this no, if they're not doing that for now, your your solutions, be it ERP, whatever other solution, how are they gonna do it for AI? Who needs to come around with a stick and tell them, can you think through this process?

SPEAKER_00 26:58

I think organizations have to be careful. Yeah. Because yes, we we can easily repeat the same mistakes. The same mistakes. Yeah. And and and if we so if we if we don't think it's really true, which we're not if we think it's a process that needs to be driven by the IT department, yeah, and just wait for some outcome at the end of a go life, then then we're still stuck in the same with the same uh with the same with the same issues.

SPEAKER_01 27:25

Okay, let me not talk so much about AI then. Okay, fine. You you're now writing comic scripts, right? Developing what's the word? What's the terminology? Writing them, developing them, creating them, making them.

SPEAKER_00 27:43

The inspiration, how how do you how do you tell a story? How do how do you so it's storytelling, right? So how do you how do you tell somebody about the things that happen all the time and that they shouldn't they shouldn't be engaging in? And then because I'm a you will maybe you know, but as a Belgian, Belgian as a when it comes to a number of very, very well known Tinting, and so many others.

SPEAKER_02 28:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:12

Uh Belgian, we we are I I've read a lot of comics in the U.S. Oh, I loved Tintin.

SPEAKER_02 28:18

So do.

SPEAKER_00 28:19

Um so for me that was like, okay, maybe I can I can play around with that. Yeah. So that's why I started this comic strip of which I post one page uh YouTube about uh how things can can change and and how where mistakes because the failure, potential failure of a transformation project doesn't happen at the end. It starts either at the very beginning or somewhere in the middle, or so it's uh yeah, and I'm trying to bring that to to the to the to the fore. Yeah and the other part of that inspiration is that not long ago, yeah. As I said, I I mean uh people come and tell me stories because I've been in this business, in this market for a long time.

SPEAKER_02 29:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:05

And I'm again seeing an unbelievable story develop as in an organization. And now we're talking not longer than a year and a half now. So I can't mention them, but it's fine. Of course, not an organization comes out with an RFP looking for a solution. A SAS solution. And then this is also a bit technical, but in the RFP it then has technical evaluation, so the technical evaluation had like you need to show CVs that show that your implementation team can create graphical user interface. What? Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 29:44

GUIs. Yes. When did GUIs enter go into RFPs?

SPEAKER_00 29:49

They used to, at some point, but definitely being not in SaaS. I mean SARS is a I mean, you don't even run the application. It's a nice do you have experts who know about cybersecurity? I mean, who cares? I'm paying that vendor to run in a data center that is 100% foolprint. Yeah. So you could see from that RFP that already something had definitely wrong. Because somebody said, We need a solution for this. I I won't also mention which area, but it was a an ERP, a part of an ERP. Yeah. And they said, okay, IT, go and get us the requirements.

SPEAKER_02 30:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:28

And based on that, procurement then says, oh, these are the evaluation cut the ability, it was completely. So to nobody's surprise, a year later there was a new RFP because of course nobody.

SPEAKER_02 30:38

That was a total mismatch. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:40

It was still very much like the previous one. But apparently there was some vendors came in and and bid, and then there was a problem problem with the vendor, and they had to they had to go back. But it's a never-ending story, and it's not gonna end in the sense that uh that organization then eventually, and that's probably a budget issue, right there, awarded probably to the the cheapest, the cheapest bidder, yeah, yeah. Which is a local company which outsourced the entire implementation to another continent. With the few in Kenya, so with a few Kenyans on the ground, people are really gonna be kicked in the teeth when it comes to that.

SPEAKER_02 31:23

But do they care?

SPEAKER_00 31:24

And then and and then the timelines are completely out of and and this is a real story, and this is a reputable organization in Kenya.

SPEAKER_01 31:33

Do they know how Chad GPT could do a better job?

unknown 31:36

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 31:37

That's that's all you have to do is prompt prompt engineer, act as an expert with 10 years of experience in this area and align this RFP with the deliverables and the criteria for the capacity.

SPEAKER_00 31:48

You know, in a in an ideal scenario, yeah, if I have well-documented processes, yeah. Well that I can actually give an AI like ChatGPT those processes and say, find me the right PRP.

SPEAKER_01 32:04

Exactly. And or give me options.

SPEAKER_00 32:08

Oh give me the best. And then I can go and look for who can now do that work for me within Kenya and and so forth. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. But that's there's still a lot of a lot of those things. I still get, I still see a lot of freak of expression of interest or RFPs that are that are asking for things that you will.

SPEAKER_01 32:27

This is no, this doesn't make sense.

SPEAKER_00 32:29

Which means that there's still when it comes to now the AI space, there's still a lot of illiteracy out there in in professional organizations. People don't know what the possibilities are.

SPEAKER_01 32:39

So that that demonstrates a total lack of critical thinking.

SPEAKER_00 32:44

That as well.

SPEAKER_01 32:45

And when you're not thinking critically about the applications, the ERPs, whatever you're investing on behalf of the organization, you're almost tempted to think, are you thinking for the organization? Are you just thinking about your ego? Then that comes to the people problem, right? And you with your with the comic strip, do you think culture can shift through storytelling?

SPEAKER_00 33:10

I think so.

SPEAKER_01 33:11

Yeah.

Importance of Upskilling

SPEAKER_00 33:11

Yeah. If the very if the right people pay attention to what one not so right decision or wrong decision can lead to? Yeah. Yeah, I think so.

SPEAKER_01 33:23

Now let's talk about skilling and upskilling. How important is it for anyone entering the technology function? I'll not call it the IT department, the technology function. How important is it for them to keep up to date with language that is currently news, certifications? I like to certify, but from where you stand, a certification is still as important. Because I know Europe, Europe certifications are very much valued, right?

SPEAKER_02 33:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:54

It's key. It's key. It's key. The challenge that we have on the content, and that now that's a regional, at least for this region, because I've been very focused on this half the last few years, is that we don't have enough people who are certified or skilled enough.

SPEAKER_02 34:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 34:09

You see, for me as the client, I'm not necessarily interested in paying for your expensive certification because they're not for free.

SPEAKER_01 34:18

No, not quite, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:19

Because the chances that you will get that certification and then you will leave my organization and go and work for that that remains there, but that's a very short-sighted view.

SPEAKER_02 34:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 34:30

Uh but but that's that's uh that that that is a reality.

SPEAKER_03 34:34

That is a reality.

SPEAKER_00 34:36

But yeah, certification is upskilling, and I mean um I really feel for the young people who are starting their careers now because because we're moving very fast. Yeah. And and the iron landscape has not I mean, it's still in motion, right? We still don't know. So for the time being, if you ask me, I would tell you, okay, focus on those skills that are gonna help you build agentique AI.

SPEAKER_02 35:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:05

Because that's what a lot of customers are gonna be doing for the next what is it five years, ten years, or two years?

SPEAKER_01 35:12

The executive couldn't stop talking about building a Gentex AI and building a company around agentix AI, okay.

SPEAKER_00 35:18

But we also don't know how long that's gonna be. Because the next thing is, yeah, native AI is maybe around the corner. Yeah. And then agentic AI. So it's it's um it's like a cycle. Yeah, but it remains really important. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:36

Now what about those who don't want to talk get into AI? Or should they be what there there is there is a cohort of individuals who are not interested in AI, whom we will not be interested in AI. Is there still a place for them? Like in the ERP or there's still a place for them, right? Your solutions architect, your skills.

SPEAKER_00 36:01

That's never dying out. That's not dying out, at least not until we get pistol balls that can but so that's not dying out. So yes, there are still, I would say, skills closer to the core ERP. Yeah. Developers also. It's only it's only that now that I mean now you can use natural language to develop things.

SPEAKER_01 36:20

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:22

So so yes, those roles are those roles are still there.

SPEAKER_01 36:25

Okay. So people don't panic, there's a role for you somewhere.

SPEAKER_00 36:29

Of course, absolutely.

Day-to-Day vs Decompression

SPEAKER_01 36:30

And the and ERP is the place, one of the few places. Yeah. Absolutely. And cybersecurity and all these other odds. Okay. So what's your day-to-day? What does your day-to-day look like? If the if ERP is your niche, what what does it look like? Talk walk me through that.

SPEAKER_00 36:47

I I think I spend every day a good of course, there's my comic tip, there's the things I'm doing to communicating to customers as it's cool.

SPEAKER_03 36:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:55

But I also keeping an eye an eye out on what's happening. So upskilling is is definitely it takes uh I I I easily spend two or three hours a day reading, leading up. So I also find my weekends are sacred.

SPEAKER_02 37:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:10

There is the odd weekend that's there's something I need to finish because otherwise my Monday will not be. But uh I live in Kenya, so the Indian Ocean is not is not very far.

SPEAKER_01 37:20

It's not very far. Because something has to, well, not something has to give, something will give if you're not very, very careful. And now you have your storytelling.

SPEAKER_00 37:28

Does it the story that the comments are? It's like I was uh a mentor and a partner for the ICT PDTP program in Kenya.

SPEAKER_01 37:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 37:35

Presidential digital transformation.

SPEAKER_01 37:38

Digital transformation. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 37:40

I think I've done that for six or seven years.

SPEAKER_01 37:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:43

And that in a way was also for me decompressing time. Yeah. Because you meet new faces. Usually you have like two or three mentees, yeah. Yeah. And it's a it's a two-way street because you learn from them as well. Where are they? What are they thinking? What so uh and but these are the things that also make that professional side of your life a l a little bit more interesting and and it's a learning. So there's there's many things you can do just to make sure that you you keep a good uh well, your your mental health is intact.

SPEAKER_01 38:19

Have you not been tempted to develop your own ERP to to compete with what is out there in the market? Have you ever been tempted to?

SPEAKER_00 38:28

Thought about it.

SPEAKER_01 38:29

Yeah. It can be your retirement project. Well, now it's a GPT, it's others, it's I can I can just sell it, write me a nice ERP for Yeah, and then develop it and then deploy it, and then make lots of money, go buy a house by the Indian Ocean.

SPEAKER_00 38:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:45

The incentive is there.

SPEAKER_00 38:46

There's a lot of other aspects that come with it. I mean, there are entrepreneurships. Entrepreneurship is not that easy.

SPEAKER_01 38:53

Yeah, it's uh it's it's an extreme sport. It's an extreme sport. It's definitely an extreme sport. So what next for you? Have you thought that far?

SPEAKER_00 39:03

Yeah, I know I know. More towards consultancy only.

SPEAKER_01 39:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:06

As in, whereas now I can I can still be involved in in an implementation or a transformation project. Yeah. Um thinking about retirement. But I don't think I don't think I will ever really retire. And but maybe to more towards the change management. So let's say back to the change management. There was a time, two, three, four years ago, yeah, that I I started focusing more on change management. So I then certified with ProSite to have a deeper insight in those in those methodologies. And um, and that remains an interesting fact is that that's a budget that comp that companies ever hardly cater for. The change budget. When they when they when they budget for a transformation project. If at all, let's assume the budget is enough, there will be some scope key. Yeah. And the first thing that falls off is change budget.

SPEAKER_01 40:06

It's so critical. It's it's it's what underpins change. I I find that change will dictate how well you deliver on whatever you're delivering on. But then it goes back to culture and the issue of culture. Yeah. It's like why do you need to change? You need to change, why do you need a posse or methodology? Why do you need to change the change?

Closing Advice

SPEAKER_00 40:24

So one of my next projects that I'm thinking about is is again in the comic script mode. Yeah. But geared around around change management, change management methodology, and then how it should be done according to also based on my experience.

SPEAKER_01 40:39

So as we wrap up, what's the one thing you'd like all CIOs, CTOs, anyone who's in a C and dealing with technology, what do they need to have at the back of their heads, the back of their minds?

SPEAKER_00 40:53

I actually have two. So the one is don't write the change management budget off.

SPEAKER_03 41:02

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 41:02

It's a good thing. It's actually as important as the money you're gonna spend with the consultants who are gonna configure your system.

SPEAKER_02 41:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:11

And secondly, is on the AI side, yeah. Be careful.

SPEAKER_02 41:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 41:17

Don't throw everything out there too fast.

SPEAKER_02 41:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:21

Because in the end, your organization yourself, you're still liable for that. The best way to explain this is that even today, if you ask Chachi Petit or another AI, like you show a picture of a mushroom and you ask there was a cartoon like that with a you know the red mushroom with the white spots, the dangerous ones. Can I eat that?

SPEAKER_02 41:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:44

The AI will come back and say you can eat that.

SPEAKER_01 41:47

You shouldn't, he'll die.

SPEAKER_00 41:49

You should have asked, Can I eat it? So so be very careful. Be very careful.

SPEAKER_01 41:56

Okay, you've had it right here, listeners. Your change budget is very important, extremely important. And whilst I talk about AI all the time, on this other side, you must be careful. There you have it, folks. Thank you so much, Serge, for joining us and walking the country through the change journey. I don't think your work is just done, done yet at all. Thank you. All right, thank you.