Was This Show Better Than We Remember? (Dawson’s Creek 2x13)

Season 2, Episode 13 brings everything a little closer to the surface—and makes it harder than ever for anyone to pretend they don’t feel what they’re feeling.

In this episode, we break down the emotional tension that’s been building and how it starts showing up in more direct (and sometimes messy) ways. Dawson is still trying to hold onto control, Joey is caught between expectation and honesty, and Pacey continues to operate just outside the lines everyone else is trying to follow. On a rewatch, this episode feels like a shift from quiet avoidance to moments that almost force the truth out into the open.

We talk about vulnerability, mixed signals, and why this episode feels like the show inching closer to a breaking point—without fully crossing it just yet.

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Season two of Dawson’s Creek continues to blur the line between what these characters say and what they actually feel—and this episode makes it clear that tension can only build for so long before something gives.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Um, so uh I have to tell you something. I can't keep up with when we record and what I tell you and what I don't tell you. Okay. Anyways, you know, I said I said at one point I wasn't buying Sophia Bush tickets. I knew better. Then I got on there to buy my Chantel ones, my Quinn ones, and Sophia wasn't sold out, so I was like, um is this okay?

unknown 0:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:35

Missed opportunity I had to. Of course you did. That was Jesus telling you you got to meet her. So I am I bought a photo with Sophia. You should see my list. My mom was like, Anna, you're gonna be spending like two grand on this. I'm like, it's broken up over several weeks. You never know. Oh my gosh, I love it so much. So listen, I will I I have the notifications turned on on my phone so that anytime they post something, I'm like ready. I told you last June when we were in Trick. I know. I still feel like we need to make a trip to Trick when we go in June. Well, I would be upset if we didn't. I I just do too much. I do too much. Every time I see you, I have a new trip book. I just booked a cruise the other night. Like, literally, I can't stop, okay? But that's your thing. I know there's nothing wrong with that. Oh no, I have no regrets, but of course not. I would hope not. No. No, I mean mine'll kick off this week. Wait, where you? Oh, yes, your thing. Yeah. I'm so excited. It will literally be my entire personality for the entire month of September, probably through December, probably through the next event. Welcome to Press Play again, Two Roommates with One Remote, the rewatch podcast where we dive back into the shows and movies we couldn't stop talking about in college and probably still can't. We're your hosts, Anna and Megan. Two roommates with one remote, ready to laugh at debate, and maybe get a little too nostalgic as we revisit the classics and discover a few new favorites along the way. So grab your popcorn, press play, and hang out with us as we rewind it all, episode by episode, movie by movie. I'm gonna go ahead and say I loved this episode. It was pretty good. Episode 13, his leading lady. Tell us about it. So the synopsis for episode 13 says the filming of Dawson's new movie brings back memories for both the filmmaker and for Joey, who grows to dislike Devin, the actress playing her, as well as Chris, who's playing Dawson. Meanwhile, Jen, now working as Dawson's producer, meets a new potential boyfriend for herself, Tyson, Ty Hicks, who is hired as a props man on Dawson's set along with other Capeside High volunteers. Also, Pacey learns that Andy is bipolar after he finds antidepressants in her trash, which prompts her to believe that Pacey is more of an interference than a help in her life. This episode aired on February 3rd, 1999. Happy birthday, Jamie. It has a popularity rating of 54 out of 128. And an IMDB user rating of 72 out of 128. Okay. Um I I knew the episode going into it. I knew it was about his movie. I did not remember all the stuff in it though. Okay. I feel like it can be assumed why I loved it, number one, because they are all together.

SPEAKER_01 4:05

Yeah, true.

SPEAKER_00 4:06

I loved the working together part of it.

SPEAKER_01 4:09

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 4:11

But coming out of it, I'm just on a high because I just feel like this show is so good. I love it. Yes. It was a good episode. It was. It really was. I agree. Um I this is this is probably gonna shock some people. Dawson was probably my top three people in this episode. No, I would completely concur with that. I mean, I I gave him a round of applause. Oh my gosh. At one point. He looked good. He was confident because it will I mean, obviously, it was his realm of expertise. It was his movie, his writing, his all of the things. So I understand that part. But just like how in charge, but but in that in that space, he could be bossy. And it didn't come across as like, oh my gosh, Dawson. It was like it is his world at that point. And he was good at it. Like he really was it just and you know, you gotta give something to Jen because she's helping him facilitate this and execute it well. Um, you know, we've got Joey, who is basically broody and frustrated and acting like everything is Dawson's fault that they're not together or she's blaming him. Well, from the very beginning, she's upset because he is like completely moved on. Right. And she's hurt and upset and almost like embarrassed that she he's moved on and she's not, and it's like what happened here? So the whole episode is stemmed from that. It's almost a reversal of roles in in some way, but not entirely, where she's the one expecting him to be pining after her now. Yes, and she doesn't she can't stand that he's not. Correct. It's like it's the least you could do for me. I've pined away for you and you know my whole life. I will say, obviously, it came out in the episode that he was not truly over her, but I thought that he pretended pretty well. Like in the beginning, when he's saying, Yeah, I mean, we moved on, it's fine, like it sounded pretty genuine. Like it was convincing, yeah. And I mean, truthfully, even at the end where he's talking about, you know, a little more and more each day that he's you know moving on, it it it opens with that and it closes with that. Why not just be together though? Well, that comes down to Joey, and that's where basically Dawson calls her out. I know, but she clearly is she says she's not over him either. Like right, but Joey doesn't know what Joey wants. And that's what I made a note of. And that I'm frustrated with her right now because I'm I'm yeah. She went to the wrong. And the rapid fire was like relatable or frustrating. This one is the frustrating one. Well, that's why it ends. It's very she doesn't now I give it to her that it would be very weird and very hard to watch the things that you lived through very recently be acted out and and said by people right in front of you. Give her that. Just the way though, like she the the way her delivery is just not good. Usually that's Dawson that the delivery is not good, but no, uh it can be questionable on Joey sometimes. But so even at the Ice House, when she's telling Jack that she's gotta go, she's told Dawson that she will help him with the movie, and he's like, Oh yeah, how long do you think he'll have us for? And she's like, What? And he says that Jen asked him, yeah, okay, and she's like, Well, how does Dawson feel about this? Um, you're asking the wrong person the wrong question, and the fact that you're more concerned about how Dawson's gonna feel about Jack being there versus how is Jack gonna feel that he's working onset of this movie that's Dawson's about his girlfriend and himself as the director. Yeah, you should be a little bit more worried about his comfort level. I will say if she was not with Jack, like if um if they were not boyfriend and girlfriend yet, but they still don't even say that at all. They don't weird. But so if they were not, and Jack and him had just had a little spat, you know, and she was saying that. I get well for her, the intention behind it is like clearly misguided and and wrong. But I wish that it was more like Dawson, she has gone through this with Dawson. They've already made a movie together, she knows how important it is to him, and she really just wants it to be that that be the focus for him and him not be worried about any outside forces. That is not her comm that ain't it though. No, that ain't uh Joey, Joey, Joey. No, but her um I'm so glad we didn't have more uh animosity between her and Jen, though, in this episode. No, I agree with that. But we had enough between her and Devin. Oh okay. Girl was a little weird. Yes, she was too much, yeah, way too much. And just crossing the line of like you're you're an actor, so Dawson aspire. Yeah, you're a drama student. You have the script. Dawson is telling you how it should what how he wrote it and intended it to be played. Yes, there is someone it's inspired by, but she's clearly not wanting to help you. So, as the actor, you need to draw from the words on the page and the director to figure out how to play it, not force someone to show you. You you want to stay in keeping with how the director has written the scene and the script, but there is something to be said for you are not that same person, exactly. It's not gonna be a hundred percent accurate. There is some creativity or like creative liberty here that's allowed. Um, because all you have to say is it's based on a true story and it doesn't have to be identical. But no, it is. It was very and her baiting her into getting angry because I knew as soon as Dawson said, You're an angry girl. Oh Lord, that is not the right choice of words there. It's not. But now, what I will say is that Chris Wolf, he was great. He was because he was just more genuine and like yeah, just uh uh he was taking it serious. Even him asking if Dawson wanted to go eat with them after, it was just so I thought that was nice. It's like it was very nice. I mean, he he's I don't want to say he's come a long way because he's still yeah, oh yeah, camera stops rolling and he's back to his old shenanigans, but like he's taking the part seriously, even for a student-made film with a very low budget that he never planned on being in. Yeah, and he's not getting paid for it, like he's not getting anything, but he's still taking it seriously. So I do appreciate that. I like it. The whole scene with where Dawson is telling him and Devin it's the it's the scene about Joey kissing Jack, and he's like, I don't have experience with this, I don't know how to do it. I can't relate, yeah. And when Dawson is explaining it, I did not gag. You know, you normally when Dawson is having these long-winded moments and these this dialogue of of how we felt in this moment, it's just too much long-winded drawn out. But this and I think it helped with the camera cutting to Joey so it showed his perspective of her. Yeah, it was really you really kind of felt for him in this. You know what I mean? Like I just thought that was a really good scene. It was, and I mean to him trying to make sure that the delivery was done accurately on those lines because it is that the most important scene of this movie? No, yeah, but it's something that really mattered to him, yeah. Obviously, it still matters to him. Yeah, and and Joey uh at some point sees well through the through there's like a uh um montage of like Devin trying to figure out how to play Joey and she sees her wrestle his hair, but oh weird so creepy. But when Joey takes Dawson inside and just starts yelling at him and goes speechless, yeah, because he's truly like what what he puts her in his pla in her place, he does, as as he rightfully deserves to be able to do it. I think so too. I absolutely think so. Because truly she starts at him and is carrying on about how you know, like, nobody said I'm not over you, and and that, you know, like I I thought you weren't over me. And he's like, Rewind, you're the one that broke up with me, or like you broke up or broke us up, like this this was all you and you have your other things now. You've got a new life, a new passion with art, and he's like, This is all I have, yeah. And you know what? We can say whatever we want about Dawson and his obsession and his passion for directing, okay, make movies. But I I appreciate when somebody knows what they want to do. Now, is it to the downfall of other people sometimes where they don't matter to him? He does act like that sometimes. Yeah, but this moment in particular. I appreciate that he is making a movie. This is his way of working through things. I mean, we could probably find a find articles and lists of a plenty of other writers, show runners, directors, actors, even who take roles that they relate to on some personal level to help them work through things or whatever. Creators of shows make entire shows based off of their own lives. Exactly. I mean, the OC, the creator of the OC, he it was based off of he was Seth. Like he it's a it's a legit thing. So him doing this now, it is to a T word for word, yeah, what happened in his life, but you know, he is just he's trying to work through it, and for that, uh that for a teenager, there could be worse ways to work through something. You know, I mean, and he's not got a lot of money, and he's making a full production movie. Yeah. And and he makes some comment at at some point in the episode, you're like, this is just supposed to be my cathartic, yeah, you know, basically activity that that just you know helps him move on or or get over it or whatever. And I I don't think that it will. No, I don't either having to relive it every day, but you know, whatever. You can think what you think. There's lots of ways that I even goes back to like fake it till you make it, you know, or telling yourself enough to do it. Oh, that's what he would do. Believe it, you know. That yeah, there's a lot that can be said there. But um, no, I really did. When he put her in her place, I mean I and he stormed out of that room. I couldn't help but just I know it was so it really was good. It was a good moment for Dawson. It was and and I'm sorry, but Jack could not have handled delivering the same conversation with a straight face, let alone with any behind.

unknown 16:46

I know.

SPEAKER_00 16:47

No, I mean everything with I I appreciate at the end when Jack asked Dawson if they can help to stay clean up and they kind of have mended fences a bit. Yeah, yeah. I thought it was mature of Dawson even and and it wasn't snarky in his response. But Jack, I right now I'm over Jack. I've kind of been over Jack, truthfully. Yeah. Um no, I made a note, you know, closing scene with him and Joey talking that you know he's genuinely the bigger person here. Yeah. Like, no, you know, he's offered for them to send you. No, y'all go on and enjoy your night. Have have fun. You know, you know I've had I've taken enough of your night. Yes. I loved when Chris asked him if he wanted to come eat with them and he says, No, I just I kind of want to just be here. I I liked that. I thought it was a really sweet thing because it is there is something too like you have created this and now you just want to kind of take it all in. Yeah, just revel in the moment and yes. Yes, it's a really personal thing. Oh, I just loved it. I thought it was really good for Dawson to take that step back and be like, we did this today. Because I mean, some kids that are just it it doesn't have anything to do with age, actually. Some people would be like, Oh, next fun thing, off they go. They wouldn't stop to think this is a monumental moment, and I need to literally be present. So they remember this. And realizing that he didn't do it by himself. Like there are so many people around him that volunteered his friends, other classmates that he barely even know. Like, you know, I'm sure we could we will I will assume the drama club at the school is helping in some form or fashion. You know, like just like there's so many people that are helping make this happen, the school allowing them to just run rampant through it, and and all the equipment that that was some legit stuff. Well, I wonder how much the film class teacher may or may not have been involved or helped to donate some of that to help you know him accomplish this. But you know, I mean I it speaks volumes to how much he's already done and and he's still in high school. And you know, much to Devin's chagrin when she's like, Oh, your first movie. Um, no, second, exactly. You know, it's like and he won the junior film festival. Yeah. I mean, just say it won a an award just his first first movie. Well, even if it was his first movie, he's only 16. Exactly. I mean, he it's not even just that he's directing it, he wrote the entire script. I mean, I mean, this is literally his brainchild, uh his life, but you know. Yeah. He didn't have to come up with a lot. No, yeah, but it just I I yeah. It's it's at this point kind of historical data. But you know, but either way, he's making sure that it translates on screen the way that it should, as any good director would. Yeah, I I was proud of Dawson. It was very it was it was a good it was I think this was other than the episode where he that I gave a 10 between his parents, you know, the the fighting and all that. I still that was a 10 out of 10 episode for me, but I think that this one is Dawson's best episode. I would I would as the character of Dawson. I think I agree with that. Um I just liked I really don't have anything bad to say about Dawson, I don't think. No, I mean if I'm telling the truth, I was I mean, we've already made this clear. I was frustrated with Joey a lot. Yeah, yeah. And I mean part of that is she's taking out her own frustrations in the wrong places because it's girlfriend, it's you. Like you've gotta make up your mind. Yeah, you've gotta decide. You're either gonna sit on this pot or you're gonna get off. If you're in so much pain that you dumped him, if there was a solid reason, which okay, okay, let's backtrack for a second. I understand her reasons from a few episodes ago, and she needs something else besides him. He was all she had. I get that. But you can't dwell on the fact that now you're not together because that was your decision. Correct. So you need to continue your growth process, but then you just jumped into another relationship. Well, it's the whole dance with the one who brought you. You know what I mean? I've never heard that before. What's the song by Shania Twain? Oh never heard it, I guess. That's okay. It's very old. Or like one of her older ones. But it my point being, you got somebody, girlfriend. And you either need to water the grass you're standing on or quit looking across the fence. Pick one. You know, it wasn't she was she was snarky and rude and sarcastic whenever it was she thought that Jen was encroaching back into that. But it's a different, it's it's a different when she sees that he might be truly moving on. Him just jumping back in with Jen, it's doesn't necessarily prove he's moved on. That's just him needing someone. I mean, it opens with not only are they talking about the fact that you know moving on, they're talking about letting go. Uh-huh. And that really stirs stuff up for her in his bedroom. And I I literally feel like Joey is getting a little butthurt that it's not turning out the way she kind of wanted it to. Yeah. Or like she might have hoped. Yep. Because I'm not gonna lie, I know we've we've already said it. She almost has this air about her, like she expected him to just be unwaveringly pining after her like she did for him her whole entire life. Well, at least like he was for the past few episodes. Yes, but I I kind of think that she was almost enjoying having that role reversed. Oh, yeah, yeah. Definitely, and now it's not. She was in control of of just she's the one with it the the power. Well, she's the focus. Oh, boy. Instead of him. And and I can appreciate that a little bit. But I see what you're saying. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, I get it. At the least, I just I think that it's like, wait a second, my moment has already ended, and and I didn't get to control that it ended almost. Does that make sense? And it's almost like she's she's taking that out on others and not happy. Well, I I look at it too, like she has this her whole art thing now. And he even through that of her starting her her art class and drawing and even like our friendship with Jack developing more. He really Dawson himself didn't have, yes, he knew he won this thing, and he was writing his script, but even in the middle of writing his script, he's still thinking, when he's talking to Jenny's still thinking about Joey nonstop. He did not have something else. Now she sees that he's got something he's putting his focus in, his his energy into instead of into her and trying to get her attention and impress her and get her back or whatever, pining for her. He's got something else taking his attention away, even though it is a movie about them, and she's not really happy about that. Well, because she wasn't even remember she wasn't even supposed to be helping with this movie. Correct. Because she told him she didn't want to. Yeah. Again, make up your mind, girlfriend. Um to add to that, you can you can kind of break this down in a way if you're looking at characters and be like, okay, when you take, if your focus has been on the wrong thing or the wrong person or whatever, if you can remove yourself enough to find what you're passionate about, what you love to do, and start like taking after that as as fast and as hard as you can. You it literally you can tell that Dawson he feels better, he overall looks better, like we've already said. I mean, all those things start adding up to it's good for him to do what he loves to do. Now she's not focused on her art as much anymore. She's still doing it, yes, but you can tell that internally she's diverted and looking around and assessing other things when you in my personal opinion, and I'm I'm all over the place at this second, but I'm gonna try to bring it back. She was in the relationship with Dawson, started getting cold feet because he's so all in, and she's like, Maybe I'm not and then upset because she wants to chase this passion with art, up comes somebody who has that mutually, you know, like they both enjoy this, that mutual interest, and now she's interested in Jack. Well, that was a momentary spark at best, um, just based off of something that was a commonality, it's not a foundation. So at the end of the day, what she thought she was leaving him for, or that she thought that you know she wanted to go experience, she has, but it's not fulfilling her. Yeah. And what he's always loved and wanted to do is fulfilling him. And I feel like in some ways she's a little bit jealous whether she's willing to admit it or not. Yeah. I agree with everything. That was a very long explanation to get around to it. I agree. I agree with everything. Um, Pacey and Andy is the other side of this episode. Yes. He finds her medication bottle in the trash. Which I'm not gonna lie, there's a part of me that's a little salty. Like, number one, I love the color of her room. Like, that purple plum color is fabulous. Uh-huh. Secondly, I did not get to have my own bedroom with an ensuite. Like, excuse me, girl. I did. Good for you. In one house. I mean in one house. No, yes, I'm kidding. No, my bathroom was down the hall and across, so but one house. I'm trying to I'm trying to. So our one house on that dead end road, I had my own bathroom. Because my bedroom was hot pink. Did I paint my bathroom that pink? I love I just loved that house so much. It was just so small and sweet. Um, and I'm trying to think our next house. I didn't because the room I had didn't even have a closet, like we had to build one. Like it was not intended to be a bedroom. Um, but I wanted that room. Uh and then we moved into the house in Ripley. And my room, my original room was a part of like a mother-in-law suite. Yeah. And so there was a bathroom back there. Anyway, sorry, that was I was just going through all the houses I've lived in in my life, apparently. I only lived in the one. They moved in right when I was about like two weeks old, so you know, it's okay. The guest bathroom was my You did have your bathroom in Tuscalys. Oh yeah, I did. I did. Yeah, I did. Mine just also had the door, the guest door. Yeah. Anyways, well, not that we had anybody over, but No. We did occasionally. My family came to stay some. And we had some friends, I guess. Anyways, um Pacey finds her medicine bottle in the trash. That's where he is now concerned because he sees that she's taking Xanax, even though the bottle said Xanax. Yeah, I saw that. But he was saying he was saying Xanax when he was speaking. So I don't know if they just couldn't I don't know. I think if anything I mean, there's regulations about stuff that they can and can't show sometimes. Who's not to say it? They deliberately put something that's oh you to insinuate what is supposed to be in the bottle, yeah, but not the actual term. But either way, I you know, she's just totally coming apart at the seams with my note, and she is it you know, I I can understand him going to talk to Dawson about it. Um I'm trying to think of where did I make my note about. Uh I didn't make anything further other than I started to make that note and then didn't finish it. But, you know, he's he's talking to Dawson about it because he's concerned and it it makes him feel some type of way. And you know, I mean I appreciate that even here, Dawson was very level-headed and and just cool. He's like, you know, just ask her about it. Yeah. Which he does, and then she like she lies again and says it's her mom. She does, but when he presses, she just spins out and basically tells him that you know, out of all the things that are in my life right now, you're the most yeah. Yeah. It was and and he is he is in that scene when she's listing this and saying that he's like, Don't say that. Don't he's kind oh, it was so sad just the way he was like trying to help. And he was he was worried that she was that of what she was about to say, which she ended up saying, which was essentially a breakup in that moment. Yeah. I mean, somebody says that they want you to leave them alone and get away, and you're the one thing in their life that they can do without. Like, I would kind of take that as a I mean, he says she What does he tell Dawson? She's done with she I don't think they had had they hadn't had that conversation yet. Well in the hallway when he when he finds him crying. Oh, um he tells Dawson shrible. Dawson suggests that he needs to let her go and move on. Yeah. And I when he first started saying it, I thought, oh, don't turn it to yourself. He does a little bit, but I still It wasn't as bad as it usually is, where Pacey can't continue his own conversation. Pacey still continues his own problems and talks about what's going on. So that's the only redeeming part. That's why it was redeemable because yes, Dawson is saying, That's what I need to do. I've got to let her go. We need to just let him go. But then Pacey still gets to bring it back to himself of I can't do that. This is not the same. And so I appreciated that whole conversation, honestly, with all of them, or with both of them. But Andy is slowly the best word you've already used with unraveling. This she I know that the election episode was like the first big mood swing that we saw. Yeah, but this is the slow unravel that we're seeing in her. She even says um that her doctor wants her to stop taking her medication and try therapy. We're gonna see her in therapy in a few episodes, and it's just a continuation of just like it's slowly coming undone. And Pacey is a teenager who does not know how to handle this. No, and and truthfully, I commend him because he does a better job than most. Yeah. Um, you know, he shows up to her house and he's got a single red rose, and she slams the door in his face, marches back upstairs to her room, and he proceeds to start to climb up to her bedroom window, and she's like not having it. And if not for the fact that Joshua Jackson can deliver these lines and execute these scenes to the impeccable level that he is capable of, this could have been a cringy situation, this could have been a creepy situation. It's like, no, I'm not leaving. There's so many ways that that scene could have just altered the inflections slightly in the same sentences, and it could have been a totally different, you know, vibe, feeling, whatever. But because he's so good at what he does, he plays it to perfection. Andy and Pace are the other two in the top in the three. Oh, of course. Dawson and Pacey. Yeah, I mean, it and then her she is scared. She I think that the whole this is all stemming from she is scared. Well, right. All right, so truthfully, they've just moved here, right? Mm-hmm. Because the whole town knew too much wherever they came from. Providence. So here she is now beginning to feel like her skeletons are being seen and brought out into the light. And now she's kind of in this whole walls are going up, I'm kicking everybody out, kind of a reaction. And in its own way, it it if if I thought she could move, I think that she'd almost consider just leaving. Yep. So, you know, there's there's that kind of an underlying current going on with her in that respect. Um but if if she is scared, which I totally agree, I think that she is, she doesn't fully understand what she's dealing with in her own head. Um how to process it, how to uh just uh deal with it in general. And uh she's pushing him away just I I think that that's something that she thinks she can control. Are you following me at all? Anyway, I I think that it that's something she thinks she can control because she feels out of control of her own emotions and body and cutting Pacey out, yes, yeah. But he's like, You need me now more than ever, which is true. Yeah, I mean it really is. She needs a parent, but she doesn't have that, right? But it just it goes to show his ability to see a bigger picture and not just be like immediate knee-jerk reaction of oh, she didn't want me, I'm done with this, you know, hands off. Or she's crazy, I'll let her figure it out. No judgment from him. No, it was absolutely sincere, and you know, he's like, You need me, and I love you. So, I mean it was it was a very sweet scene. It and it's tough, you know. Somebody who's just mentally going through it, that's that can be a very tumultuous and she point in time. It I think too about like her doctor is saying, we're gonna stop your medication and try this instead. Okay, I underst I I don't have to deal with this, so I don't mean I understand it in that way, but I understand like a doctor wanting to try something. Let's just see if we can stop medication, let's see if this will okay. But I think that this is where the importance of parents come in for a lot of reasons. But as a teenager, when you're dealing with this, a parent can can in that situation, okay. Let's try this, but then if it's not working, we're going back and we're getting something else figured out. Andy does not like to fail at something. No, she's an overachiever of heart. So medication, they're gonna stop it. She's not gonna want to admit if therapy is or is not working. No, but she doesn't even have a mother or a parent to even lonely. Yeah, that has got to be so lonely because it's not even that she's even lonely. That would be alienating. Yes, it's not even that she just doesn't have the parents either. I know the dad is gone, but she has a mom physically there who can't even take care of herself. That's what so she has been the one taking care of her, but now she just needs somebody to take care of her. And Jack has already said, which he does come around, but he's already said, get it together, basically, in so many words. But don't you think that there's probably some whether it's just a tiny bit of doubt or just a thought in the back of her mind that like there's probably some kind of fear of like, am I gonna become like my mom? For sure. I think that has been there since day one. I totally agree. So personally, if I were Andy, which I can't say that I've been in this kind of a situation, if you have a therapist who's wanting you to stop your medication and try therapy, yes, uh know that doctors and physicians have your best interest, or they're supposed to have your best interest at heart. But we've also seen Andy when she's not taking the meds. So if if I I mean I'm not saying that a pill is the answer to everything because that's also half of the problem that's plaguing this country and and the world for that matter, but we won't get on that totebox tonight. Um I just I don't know that I would necessarily jump straight to come off. Yeah. Cold turkey, come on. Like well, you're not supposed to do cold turkey for any of those periods. You're supposed to taper out. Um but either way, I just I think you know, I I would she's not the adult and she's not the parent, which would be the best person there to stay. Like be like, hey, full respect for what you do, but like I you haven't seen her. Or just just to call to question what they want to do because I just would feel like if I were in Andy's shoes and if if I were to raise that concern, that I would be afraid of being met with resistance and like, oh, you're the child. You know what I mean? Like, no, let's try this. I'm telling you what you need to do. You know what I mean? And that it really is an alienating feeling to feel like you literally have no one in your corner. No control over right your your own body at that. Well that, but nobody to advocate for you, no one in your corner to help you because you're helping them. Which I think was part of also with the controlling part. She's not used to somebody advocating for her. So when Pacey is asking her how he can help and what he can do, she's like, uh-uh, I got it's like, no, I'm I've been doing it myself. Like accepting help in this would also be showing vulnerability and admitting that you need help. That would almost be like a failure. Yes. She couldn't do anything. So she just not having it. She doesn't know how to even accept somebody coming in to be an advocate for her until he continues to just push, but not in a in an aggressive way push, but just like not giving up on her. Right. I mean, even that in and of itself is advocating for their relationship and and just showing her that I'm not going anywhere. Well, he's also trying to because there's there's some element of this that like if you're in Andy's head, you're so fixated on like this moment right now, everything is so much overwhelming, and that doesn't necessarily go away after you're 15. Like, yeah, that moment can still occur any day of the week, any year of your life when things are just too much. But he's he's trying to kind of be like an anchor, he's trying to anchor her back down to be like, hey, hey, wait a second. You're making this quick decision out of pure emotion and what you're feeling in this moment, versus let's think this through. And you know, again, trying to have a bigger picture in mind than just finished or done. And if he had not fought to for them, then it would have further proven to her how alone and alienated she was. Him continuously pushing through, stepping up, saying, I'm not going anywhere, climbing the trellis was like, maybe I'm not alone. Maybe I actually have somebody who even if she doesn't know how to accept it right now. In its own way, her slamming the door in his face is almost like self-punishment. Like she's the one being like, I can't have that. And it do you get what I'm saying? Like, go away. Yes, she's telling him to go away. She doesn't want him like in the midst of all this. But at the same time, it's it's I can only imagine that internally, it's also her own way of of self sabotage. Like, yeah, everything else is a mess. I he's the only thing that's dispensable at this moment, and you know, we do things to ourselves sometimes whether we will ignore. Knowledge that we're doing it to ourselves in an effort that we think we're being self-sacrificial or something along those lines, and it's really just we're acting out in the mind. Yeah. I agree. I also appreciate, like I've said before, I appreciate that we are not wrapping up the mental health storyline in one episode. It is a continuous storyline. Yeah. I appreciate it. It has some fluidity. It does. Which mental health does. Now I did want to at least go ahead bring up for a second. You know who was back? Graham's. She was helping, she was helping Ty. I know. And okay, so her scene with Jen, which we haven't talked a whole lot about Ty or we didn't. That is comical. Yeah. So, you know, he he shows up and Jen gets the impression that he's interested. Which, I mean, he he kind of gives that vibe. And then, you know, they're they're talking about potentially hanging out or going somewhere to a party that night. And Graham's tells her that, you know, she hopes that number one that she's proud of her and that she hopes that they have fun, that she deserves it. It was a very sweet shooting. It was a precious moment. Very good. It was very precious. Um, you know, that she's accomplished so much on her own, and as a woman without a man. And she didn't need a man by herself. Nope. Nope. And then we find out where they're going, and they show up to this house party, and everybody whips out a Bible to the first of kings. It's Bible study. And she is looking around. Oh my goodness. Well, first of all, the guy goes, We can start. Oh my gosh. I just want you to know people. Some Bible studies might be that way, but I don't think they don't have to be that way. No, they don't. The majority of minds were not like that. Oh my gosh, that's so funny, though. It really is. It really was because also we're given kind of this like we're supposed to read between the lines. We really kind of think that he's so interested, and you know, she's been like down boy, and all this other stuff. I told you, and she thought that he was wanting to jump her bones in the hands. It's like Jen, you are playing two different people. And my like one episode, she's like, Why did it just everybody keep bringing up the pets and calling me a hub and this and that and Joe and little Miss Vixen? But then in the next episode, you're gonna act like a little Miss Vixen. Yeah. What so okay, I didn't say this in the last episode, but where they're all calling out crap, I'm sorry, but a lot of the issues y'all are complaining about, you've been doing to yourself. Okay, it's it's choices, and you can control those. So, you know, I don't think it's a bad thing that you know, maybe this guy's heard about her. Maybe he's I think she needs a little Jesus, and I'm interested in the case. Or you know what though, with the Bible study thing, it kind of makes me draw a line to Grams. Yeah, I was about to get- I mean he was helping her with the groceries. It makes you wonder did do they know each other from church? Did the Grams kind of start working her mouth? And I think that's what Jen is thinking too. Now, yeah, oh yeah, yeah. Not at first. She's thinking hey, you wanted to jump apart. Oh no, gross. I know comical. Oh my gosh, that was so funny though. I love how the episode ends. So we've already talked about Dawson telling Jack and Joey to go. He's had he's taken enough of their time, and she just says goodnight, Dawson, and because they had that great moment where they're kind of getting on the same page a little bit, and he just says the day by day. And he he just kind of watches them and he turns around and walks. And I just I love the ending. It was good. Absolutely zero red flags. I feel like Dawson was a green flag in this episode. I'd agree. You have anything to add? Anything else? I really don't know if I just missed it or um I have nothing for trivia. Like any, you know, like last it just little fun facts like last episode was was the um it was the first episode we see Pacey's dad. Like, I have none of that. I don't know if I just missed it. I have no movies. I mean we added two new characters. Devin. Yeah, and Ty. And Ty. I mean they won't they'll be short-lived, but yeah, but Devin, um Rachel Lee Cook is her name. And she was like a big 90s 90s star. She won one of those awards that I was reading off a couple weeks ago. Um so she she was actually just on Danielle Vishal's podcast being interviewed because they were teen stars together. Um yeah, I was about to say let's play a game, but uh oh, we'll forget the rating. I'm giving it a nine. That's good. I'm giving it a nine because I mean, we've already said I raved about this episode. They're all together, they're working together for a common goal. Dawson is great in this episode. Pacey and Andy, all of that. Yes, Joey is frustrating, but it does still, it's like not out of. I still think it's pretty relatable that a teenager would have that realization of crap, they're not pining after me like they always have been. What do I do now? I think I might want them, like not knowing what they want type thing. It's a relatable situation. I've this is potentially gonna come across harsh, but I just get the feeling that Joey just looks at herself and her life and thinks, just this is so tragic. And it's almost like I'm not saying she's manifesting that, but it's just almost I get I just get the feeling it it adds insult to injury that she's not getting what she wanted. Does that make sense? Yeah, after she's had all these leaps and bounds, it's like she'll figure it out. She will. She will. They all do. They all do. But nine, I you know, I was like, oh, I'll give it an eight, but I really think like I'm going nine. What's holding me back? I'm not going ten. It didn't it did not I gave a ten already and I know exactly how that episode made me feel in every way from the way they made it and everything. And I can't go ten yet. But that one was a nine. It was so good. I like it. It was very good. Well, don't don't be offended. I'm I'm giving it a five just because like this this is we're kind of hitting the middle of the road few episodes. I get it. Right. I mean, like I I'm alone for the ride to watch, you know. Um it's not one that I'm gonna be like, I that episode number 13. Yeah, I think we're willing to the spirit didn't move me on this one. It was it was good. Like I I can appreciate the content of what was in it. I think we will refer back to Dawson from this episode some and like how he acted, that kind of thing when we're thinking about the episode or and the Pacey and and Andy and what Andy's dealing with, like this is the beginning of that. But yeah, I like I I could do without his leading lady, Devin. Yeah, I could do I just but but uh yeah, okay. You want to play a game? It's your turn to spin. We're completely full again. Okay, are you ready? Three, two, three, one. Who's it? Okay it's life's little twists and turns and bumps and bruises that make you who you are. These could literally be anybody. It's an easy one, trust me. I have two people in my head. Okay. Dawson and Grams. Neither. Maybe I'll just a harder one. Say it again. It's life's little twist and turns and bumps and bruises that make you who you are. Gail? No. Jen? No. Joey. No. Pacey. Yes. Does it say when he says that? Well, I can tell you exactly how I'm feeling after it. I just feel like I want I want to listen to a compilation of all of Pacey's sweet moments. Um, I'm gonna go to YouTube, please. Help me. Um, MVP of the episode. Okay. I think I'm gonna still have to give this to Pacey where he goes to her house. Okay, okay. I think it was a tough one because it was either gonna be him or Dawson putting Joey in her place. I think that I'm giving it to Dawson and the scene him telling Chris and Devin how they should be feeling in that moment and like how it's cutting to Joey, and I just I thought it was a good one. If I didn't go with that, I would have given it to Chris and just how he was taking it so serious and he wanted to get it right. I thought that was so what would your rating be for episode 12? My rating is a five. Okay. I felt like giving it something lower would be too hypocritical almost. But I felt like where it fell in the ratings was lower than it really was warranted. Yeah. That's just my personal opinion. I give it a six. I think we're getting more and more good stuff within the show. Like deeper stuff. Yes. But as far as like a rating of like, oh my god, I love it. Yeah, no. No, no. No, yeah, it was. I agree. Also because it just felt out of place in the scheme of things. Correct. Um, but yeah, I give it a six. That's a wrap on today's episode. If you loved hanging out with us, make sure you like and subscribe on YouTube where you can watch this full video and follow us on Spotify so you never miss a rewatch. You can also find us on Instagram and TikTok for clips, behind-the-scenes moments, and all the nostalgia your heart can handle. Leave us a comment, rate the show, share the episode with a fellow room. It truly helps more than you know. And we love hearing from you. It honestly, that's how Spotify pushes it out. So, yeah, people rate, comment, all the things. We'll be back every Tuesday and Thursday with more laughs, more nostalgia, and of course, more rewatches. Until then, keep the remote close, the memories closer, and always be kind. Rewind, and press play again. Bye, Roomies. Roll the credits. Press play again. Two roommates, one remote. It's fully DIY. Editing, us, producing, also us, recording, yep, still us. 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