Was This Pacey's Best or Worst Episode? (Dawson's Creek 2x14)

Season 2, Episode 14 starts to feel like the moment where everything that's been simmering finally gets a little harder to ignore.
In this episode, we break down how emotions are no longer staying neatly under the surface. Dawson is still trying to define the situation on his terms, Joey is pushing further toward honesty (even when it's uncomfortable), and Pacey continues to exist just outside the rules everyone else is playing by. On a rewatch, this episode feels like a quiet tipping point - where the balance between what's expected and what's real starts to shift.
We talk about emotional pressure, unspoken expectations, and why this episode feels like the show inching closer to something it can't walk back from.

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Season 2 of Dawson's Creek keeps tightening the emotional stakes - and this episode makes it clear that the characters are getting closer to a shift they won't be able to ignore.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Oh my gosh. That one. There's a lot to unpack. What do you think about Jack's excuse to Joey? I really don't know what I think about his response. I I think that he wants to believe that, what he said. Correct. I think that he is lying just as hard to himself as he is trying to lie to her. Yeah. The feelings had to come from somewhere. Yeah. And we never actually hear the remaining portion of the of the poem that you know Mr. Peterson insists that he has to finish reading. Um I don't know. Does it sound like a plausible answer? Yes, but it's reaching. It didn't feel like a teenager just trying to come up with an excuse or anybody coming up with an excuse for something to make it go away. It really did sound like I mean here's the thing. He has probably been telling himself this for so long that it is a form of truth to him. Yeah, he probably really does think think I don't know where it came from. Right. Because I also think it's some form of denial that he's, you know, not allowing himself to fully realize. I'm just the look on his face at the end of this episode is almost traumatic. I'm embarrassed for Joey. Aren't we all? Not embarrassed because he comes out as gay. That's not what I mean. It's just like how much she is put. Girl, there is absolutely, even if he was not gay, there is no chemistry whatsoever. Quit trying to force this. It's like in Ming Girls when it's like, quit trying to make fetch happen. Quit trying to make this relationship happen. It is not happening. Press play again. Two roommates, one remote. The rewatch podcast where we dive back into the shows and movies we didn't stop talking about in college, you probably still can. We're your hosts, Anna and Megan. Two roommates with one remote, ready to laugh, debate, and maybe get a little too nostalgic as we revisit the classmates and discover a few new favorites along the way. So grab your popcorn, press play, and hang out with us as we rewind it off episode by episode movie by movie. We are officially, well, we're more, I don't even need to say officially, we're more than halfway done with this season. There's only 22 episodes. So we are over the halfway mark. We're on episode 14. To be or not to be, right? Yeah. Part one. Capeside High is a buzz with the gossip meal after Jack bears his soul in an English assignment and is forced to explore his innermost secrets while reading a poem he wrote out loud in class, leaving Dawson, Joey, and Andy shaken by the implications of what it all means. Jack happens to be gay. The synopsis is jumping the gun. He has not come out yet. I was like, whoa. Meanwhile, Pacey tries to defend Jack in the face of his adversarial English teacher, Mr. Peterson, and ends up getting in trouble when he assaults the petulant Mr. Peterson, which causes a rift between Pacey and Andy. Also, Jen finds Ty Hicks to be full of surprises. Oh God. Okay, hold on. Hold on. Hold on. I need to talk about the the teacher and the English class first. And I don't mean what happens in it. I mean throughout this whole season, they've all been in English class together. Not Jack, though. And in this episode, Pacey and Jack are in English class and no one else is. I noticed that too. This episode aired on February 10th, 1999. It has a popularity rating of 120 out of 128. And an IMDB user rating of 13 out of 128. That is a big difference in each other. That might be the biggest one. I think it really is. I think so too. Maybe the biggest one out of all of them, honestly. Yeah. So this episode opens up with the three guys being friends, and Pacey needs to go home and study and do his homework. And it is just pigs are flying outside. Mind-boggling to Dawson. But you know, let me just say this about Dawson through this episode. Loved him.

unknown 4:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:50

Loved him. Even his his joke about the gay elephant in the room. I still loved him. Like because he was he had a good balance of being a good friend with still making some jokes, being not critic like not criticizing Jack or Pacey even, but still giving his opinion, not agreeing, but still being supportive. I thought this was this was one of Dawson's, you know, last episode was a great one for Dawson too, but I think this one is up there in a top episode for Dawson. I liked him. I personally feel like when he goes to find Joey at the ice house, that you know, she kind of calls him out on I still didn't no, I think she was just being defensive. I still think that he was checking on her with true intentions. I'm not denying that, but there's something about the half smirk the whole time that he's there that is almost like you it it's it's a yes, I'm here to check on you, but it's also kind of because it is the other person. I just felt like there was some element, whether he was willing to be truthful about it or not, that was slightly in between gossip and yeah, checking on his friend. But okay, maybe, maybe a little. I can see. I'm not saying it was his whole MO. I I can see it. But I still, if we had to rate those two characters in that scene, he he was had she was defensive because she knew it was true, you know, like every the way she came across and the way Joey does, she deflects things, so she was making jokes and she's like, you know, he we haven't talked about it yet, he's not here yet. It's just like her whole attitude. I'm like, Joey, I just didn't like her in this episode. That may be a little harsh towards her as a whole. Um, she's been on my nerves for a little bit, so yeah. It's this whole storyline with Jack kind of annoys me with her because it's like, girl, you don't actually think that y'all are gonna be a true couple. Just quit wasting time. Yeah. It's weird. You don't actually look like you like him. You were making out with Dawson in the hallway, so you weren't worried about PDA with him, but now you're telling Jack, no, get off of me. That to me is all we need to know. You don't you're not feeling it. Well, I mean, she tells him not to come pick her up and twirl her around like Pacey had done to Andy, but she's also the one that inserts herself practically into his mouth in the hallway when everybody's staring at him after they spray painted the bad word on his that wasn't an intentional thing. She it wasn't the twirling around she didn't want. She didn't want him trying to kiss all over her neck. I know. That me but that's part of what I'm getting at. I mean, she's walking both sides of this fence. I know why she did the she went up to him at his locker. I'm not sure. I know why. It still was gross. It was because okay, that even though it was cringy, the whole scene was cringy. I still think that was her best moment in the episode because of the intention behind it was like I didn't like it, but the intention was trying to defend him. So to me, the way I watched it was her she and Pacey were doing essentially trying to do the same thing. Right. They they were trying to make things better the only way they knew how. Okay, I think because we will spend a long time talking about the Pacey of it all, I feel like. So Jen and Ty is borderline, aggressive, and creepy, and won't take no for an answer. And it's it like if somebody's calling me back to back, even though even though I know she has like a hint of laughter every time she says no, still. This might be cute in high school or like the first time that it's happening, but when it happens again, and it happens again, and it happens again, and especially if it's the same person, cuckoo. And I think like it saying that you're you're persistent and that you won't give up, okay, can go a different way. I if you say that and then you're just like trying to still be in their life by being friends and just like maybe maybe hoping they'll see your personality in a different light and they'll have okay, that's a different form of not giving up. Like you're still you're just trying to be friends with them, trying to maybe you ask them out every once in a while. The way he went about it though was literally dangerous. Yes, literally the moment the phone hung up, he's redialing. It's it's no, I don't I don't like it at all. Everything about him, I'm over. And she looked like she was over it too. She did, but furthermore, I already don't like the fact that he's it's okay. So whether or not he truly showed his hand or his colors who he is by taking her to this it's a party, but it's a Bible study. Yes. Um, if that's truly you, then be you. Don't try to sell yourself as some form of a hypocrite because you're trying to sell yourself as this party animal. Yeah. Okay. Like, oh, I can be so cool, I can have so much fun. And then on the flip side, you're like, oh, I'm I'm persistent. I don't take no for an answer. I don't give up. That that's a dangerous person. That's somebody who, like he even said when he was talking about the fact that he thinks that like having fun and parties are what you do so that you have something to go to church for on Sunday, that's a totally flawed concept that's literally dangerous. That's licentiousness right here. Yeah. Okay, let's not even dive into that yet. When she's trying to tell him why she's saying no to him in the first place, and she says your religion is important to you, it's gonna be an obstacle in this relationship because we do not believe the same thing. That let me try and say, if it really was for him the pro a priority, and I don't even like the word religion, but same ways, if that was a a priority for him, he would also see that as an obstacle to be in a relationship with someone who did not believe the same thing. I know they're teenagers, I get it, got it, cool, fictional too, awesome. But instead of j taking that, now he's trying to say, no, that that that's not all of me, though. I have these other sides too. But the the one side that is an obstacle for her is this one that's not changing or going anywhere. But that's what I was getting at by one of them is who you truly are, yeah. Because otherwise you're two-faced. Uh-huh. And and a lot of that right there is what people who don't believe who who have a pr an issue with Christianity, that's part of the issue that they have. Yes. Right. That's not what's gone into in this episode, obviously, but it it is. If we wanted to dive deeper, that's exactly part of the issue that people have with Christians. Well, in its own way, I almost feel like a lot of this episode kind of like pivots around the topic of hypocrite. Whether it's Andy not really being able to accept Jack, and she's saying that she would be disappointed if he was gay and she found that out to hypocritical of Mr. Peterson and the way that he's treating some of the students in his classroom, not others, to you know, you just you could almost pick any angle of a storyline in this episode and insert a hypocrite in there in some form, and you could practically track the storylines with it. So before we get into the Mr. Peterson classroom, Ty, when they go to the lounge bar, she's like watching the the singer music, she's like really into it, and then the camera like pans from her, and as the camera hits her face, it's like the camera and her are moving at the same time towards him, and he's just staring at her. Right. And it had the same thing as you in the movie theater when Dawson was on the date with with Joey, not him, and he's just staring. I'd rather Dawson stare than this Thai guy though. Well, of course. I I never thought that I would be like putting Dawson on a pedestal above some of these guys, but I would rather Dawson have his PDA and throwing himself all over Joey in the hallway than Jack, and I would definitely rather have him staring a hole through me, the side of my head on a date, than this creepy Thai guy. Team Dawson. Well, I think that the guys that are kind of like Ty are even more like I keep I hate to keep using the word dangerous, but it's almost like they've deceived themselves into believing that they're these perfect good guys. Really good, perfect guys that love Jesus and But he he's already told you he doesn't take no for an answer. Right. It's disturbing. Doesn't take no for an answer. I mean if you bring that up to him, he'd say, Well, that's not what I meant. I just wanted to go out on a date with you. But it it's easy for that to become the next situation. And you still don't take no. And when she says no, not in a physical sense, but just to a date, you should have just let it be. Like that is that is a sentence in and of itself. No. She doesn't have to explain why she doesn't want to go out with you. She doesn't even owe you the explanation of your religion is an obstacle for this. She she does not owe him anything. Now, Jen has a tinge of like a smirk throughout a lot of it. And even when she's saying no to him, I'm not saying that he should that was his a good excuse for him to just jump over the line of her no. But what I'm saying is I think that she likes the attention. Oh duh. So she's kind of stringing it along. She's entertaining it. Yes. Yeah. Then he brings her a cupcake and the whole thing. It's just it's what's here right now in front of Jen. In my opinion. It's just it's they have nothing else for her. Right, and she doesn't she's not interested in anyone else at this moment. Just I just don't need to s unless she's with the I I like when we're developing new friendships and and relationships, whether they're platonic or they're romantic. But I don't need it all the time. Don't try and bring in we just got rid of Cliff and Chris, and I I don't need someone else, okay? Unless it is like a a true serious get give the girl a friendship before we give her a romantic relationship because she can't even do those well right now. No, but I I kind of think that's part of her character's flaw. I don't know. So please just let Jack come out so that they can be best friends for this. Okay. I have nothing else to say about Jen unless you do. Done with it. It was like I literally wrote, I don't care about Jen and Ty, but he's creepy.

unknown 17:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:34

I I could I don't want to talk anymore about it because I'll end up saying something that I shouldn't say. Let's move on. Okay, now the main meat of this episode is Pacey, Jack, Mr. Peterson. Okay. This teacher is absolutely horrible. Horrible. And it's he almost has a little gleam in his eye when he is saying, continue. We're waiting. He's drunk on authority. You can see that is when you need to retire. You need to leave the classroom. When you find joy in just the it doesn't even have to be something like it was in this episode. If you can even just see that a child of any age is struggling with not wanting to read out loud, period, or not like a lot of teachers, it's encouraged to get away from even putting a child on the spot to answer a question. If if you see that they truly don't know. Now, when you're in that classroom, you you know you develop a knowledge of your kids you get to know them. Right. And you can see some that really are struggling and don't know. So don't call on them. That's gonna make things worse. You can see some that are just just not paying attention and they're being goofy. So call their name, get their attention, bring it back around. Some you can see they really don't want to say it out loud because they don't want to be wrong, but they're gonna be right because they've really been so you encourage that. You just gotta know the difference. This teacher, though, he literally just wants to humiliate people and just to remind them that he's in charge. Right. Like the whole thing with Pacey's poem of how this all starts. His penmanship. Yeah, because he was experimenting with cursive. And Pacey even says that he worked hard on it. At that point, as the teacher, you go, you know what? I'm just proud. I'm proud. Thank you for doing it. Like, and he even like was being sarcastic about the title of it. You did you give them guidelines of what it had to be about? Right. Did you tell them ahead of time that half your grade is penmanship? Presentation. Presentation. Because if you didn't making it up on the spot, no. That's basically illegal. I just really want to be like, let me come and represent you in that principal's office, please. Because he didn't have any parents either, and they would be there. And Jack's parents would be involved too. Right. I kept wondering or asking myself, like, where are his parents? Because we know that if his dad had the opportunity to be there for this, it would have been much uglier than it was. And I don't know what amount of will would have been bent out of Pacey. Yeah, I don't I don't think they wanted the writers, I don't think they wanted to take the focus away from the the p the teacher part of it. So I get in a realistic setting though, parents would be involved completely, all of the things. I understand why it wasn't in this show, but even like with Jack's, which again, I also know that his parents aren't there or able, whatever. But his parents would still be called too, because he's involved in this. Right. When teachers have been there for so long, they kind of start to feel like they're untouchable. Right. And Mr. Peterson has that air about him too, because he really should have been reprimanded. I mean, he he really was. He was drunk on his own authority. Yeah. Now Pacey spitting in his face. I don't agree with that part. It actually makes me uncomfortable. But I agree with him standing up for Jack. Right. I don't think that he should have done what he did in that regard. The spitting? Yeah. Or all the other. No, I'm talking about the spitting. That is damn right. Like that's beyond the point of just disrespectful. Not that Mr. Peterson was deserving of his respect. I'm not saying that either. But that is a a level of dehumanization and and just vileness that I uh I can't say that I would have done that. Uh the spitting. I can't say that I would have. So when I'm when I'm making a claim for why PC did it, I'm not saying that I would have done that. But I think to kind of play devil's advocate for a second. I don't think it was planned, obviously, because it because it just it it presented itself when he said you have spit in the face of education all that. It presented itself. And Pacey had gotten so worked up and it just okay. Well that's the way it's supposed to. Yes. Now at least it's supposed to for what the same thing is. The dehumanization, I agree. But to play devil's advocate, like I said, that's exactly what Mr. Peterson was doing to Jack. Right, I'm not denying that. But he also didn't cross a line of expelling bodily fluids onto his face. No, he didn't. He did cross several lines though. He did, he made the kid cry. Mm-hmm. I think that there was obviously different ways to go about it and to fight the system. I completely and a thousand percent agree with that. But nothing was being done to Mr. Peterson, and Pacy nothing still was done to Mr. Peterson. No, so here's one other aspect of how this breaks down in some ways, to at least in my opinion. Pacy not only crossed an insubordinate like an insubordination line, okay, of just defiance and yes, he's trying to stand up for his friend. But at the same time, he crossed a physical assault line where Mr. Peterson, in my opinion, is riding between verbal assault and emotional, like you know, bullying, truthfully. But again, that that there's something about spitting that literally is a physical assault. Okay, let's take the spitting out of it. Okay. Do you still feel the same about the insubordination he's uh he is well yeah, he's still being defiant in an effort to stand up. I I agree with that part. I would do that all day long. Right. I'm I'm not I don't I to me, I don't care if you are in a higher position than me or to someone else. I don't care if you are older. I'm supposed to respect you just because of this position or authority. If if something is wrong, is the yes, I I absolutely think that there is a right way to go about standing up to authority. I'm not saying that, but sitting by and just and I would tell kids the same thing. I would not say go spit in the face of your teacher. Please do not get but if if you see a wrong, stand up. It does not matter if they are older than you or in a a power more powerful position than you because that's what Pacey was saying in the end in the in the office was like, we're we're scared because we're just supposed to be on blind faith that y'all are right and you're telling us what we're supposed to do all the time. I'm not afraid to stand up and say that was wrong. Right. I'm in agreement with that part too. Yeah, you just at the same time don't incite people to a riot, and then at the on the flip side, everything Pacey did, fine, so be it, until you reach the part of spitting, and then I'm sorry, but he took it too far. Yes. I agree with his apology and the form of his apology, though. Right. I mean, I'm not dinging him for that, like, because it could have been as simple as I'm not apologizing. But the way he did it was I I do apologize for the essentially for the spitting and crossing the line in that regard. But I don't apologize for the intention behind it. No, correct a thousand percent agree. Which he doesn't owe anyone an apology for. What about how all of his friends reacted to to him doing it? Forget the spitting. We agree that actually it makes me it grosses me out. But I personally feel like when he runs into Dawson in the hallway and Andy, but you know, he's asking Dawson or she's asking Dawson how he felt about it or something. I'm sorry, but I think the main thing that Dawson had a problem with was the spitting in his face. And I'm on the same side as Dawson on this. Yeah. Okay, yeah. Like I wish they would have said that. Don't spit in somebody's face. I wish they would have clarified the difference in it though, and like Dawson saying I thought he did say something about the the spitting in his face. I mean I in that scene? I thought so. Is there a bridge in the locker? I think he just okay, I think he I think he did say, I mean you spit in his face. Maybe like that. Okay, okay. Okay. But I li okay, okay. Yes. Nobody else clarified the difference in in what he did. The rest of them kind of were upset. Well, I say the rest of them, Andy and Jack, were upset that he stood up so okay in the first place. Right. But my personal opinion of the way that Jack takes it is that he's almost upset with Pacey for pretty much well, Jack is basically accusing Pacey of being addicted to being the hero and taking the spectacle for himself. So in other words, I feel like, you know, Jack is yeah, Jack's embarrassed about all this. But you've got Pacey out here to Jack, seeming like, oh, he's some cowboy trying to take on, you know, this mission of defending his friend. But at the same time, it's like, dude, this this is my problem. This is my situation, and you're putting yourself as like the person out here in in front. And not that Jack wants all the spotlight on him, I don't think that's how he means it either, but it's like you're basically branding yourself in my cause in some way that takes away from my cause. Does that make sense? I think that how I've always watched it with Jack being upset with him is that to Jack, it probably would have died down quicker if Pacey had just kept his mouth shut. Right, that too. To Pacey, he could he well, we find out in the end of the episode two, part of his intention behind it was because he felt responsible. Right, we do find that out. So I get that. Part of it though, I think, is that Pacey just he cares about people. I we've said that until we're blue in the face, and he He can't stand the injustice. He can't stand it, and I think he he does believe that Jack is gay at this moment, and so he wants to stand up and protect Jack. But I also see Jack's perspective of it though. I'm not saying that I when I say I'm team pacey in this episode and this storyline, doesn't mean be gone with everyone else. No, but I just agree with him standing up for what's right and what's wrong. Can go about it in different ways. Absolutely. We agree on that. Um, Andy though, is the one that I'm a little perturbed on. I'm not saying that I don't relate to her a little bit. Um her Pacey calls her out on being a little frosty to Jack when they're at the table. And she won't, she hasn't really spoken to him because of everything that's happened at school. And her her side of it is that it's a little selfish in the sense it's like, well, now I've got to deal with this because he could have just kept his mouth shut, he could have written about something else. I think that that's a pretty harsh way of looking at it. Could he have? Yes. Did he, but but he didn't do it to try and cause this drama. No, he was taking Dawson's advice on writing from the heart, right? So if anybody should feel responsible, the deficit should be never comes up again, though. No, but it just you know that that adds a new layer to Dawson going to check on Joey.

unknown 31:32

Like, how are you?

SPEAKER_01 31:34

How are you doing? I might have been the problem. I might have instigated this without knowing that might have been the inspiration. You know, but oh my god, are you okay? That is so funny. I thought that though, like Dawson is the one who gave him this advice. Let's go here, let's go here. If Dawson is the one who gave him the advice, and let's say Dawson also thinks that he's gay, maybe he's trying to help him come out so that things will spiral on and and finish themselves so that he can have his next shot at Joey. Maybe I'm kidding. I'm just kidding. No, I do think hypotheticals like I do think that Dawson still is not over her, but there was one scene, and we'll get back to Andy in a second, but there was that scene when Joey had gone to Dawson's house because she she was just looking for some normalcy, like she said, and she's looking for her friend and wants advice. And when she thanks him and leaves, you see on his face where he's just it's like this back and forth. He was he was happy to have his friend back, and they were they were talking and they were kind of joking a little bit, but then there's that other side that's like oh, I still want her. That's not how I read that. Okay, so I read it because because I'm going off of last episode where he says day after day, it's a new I'm just trying everything. That's the way I took his face when he was like, the look on his face to me was I'm sending the sheep off or the lamb off to the slaughter. Like, she's gonna find out. We don't know, it's just we all know that she does it. That's the way I read it. Like, um really like girl, you're not that naive. Gullible. It's written on the stalinks. I like Jack a whole lot more once he comes out. I'm just honest. Right now, I can't stand Jack. I know, but when he comes out, I love him. I get it. So, okay, Andy. There's so much in this episode that we could just go on and on and on. But Andy, the way she's gone about it, wrong. Selfish, yes. But I get it, because it's kind of like we do we need one more thing that this town is gonna talk about our family for. I know. And that honestly, I can't sit here and say that that would not have crossed my mind, especially at that age. It probably would cross my mind in a s in that situation now at any age. If you are dealing with all these other family issues, you're the new family in town, and everybody has been talking about all the things with your family. Here is just another thing. Instead of and she does apologize for not her first reaction, not thinking of him first. She does do that. I still think that she, even in that apology, is like, please don't be gay, please don't be gay. Right. And she admits that she would be disappointed if she found out that he was. She told Pacey that. Yes. And I wonder if I I I think I like this episode so much because it really, like, through the writing and everything and all the different sides of it, I think it really did a good job of like honestly for the time in the 99 of talking about it and having all all these people's perspectives. Some people not accepting it at all, some people being very well, I think one of them that can't accept it is Jack himself. Well, and nobody in this town is openly out. That we know of at least. No, but I don't think he fully understands either. No. So he is trying to fight it and yes, mask it and and just deny it and push it back down, but he also, I think there I know that there's probably that fear of like, there is no one else. I don't I don't see anyone else having these same feelings for someone. So what is that gonna do to me as a teenager in high school? Well, there's nothing that you necessarily have to go by or to look up to, so you're just making it up as you go. And at that at that time, it was pretty hostile. So, I mean, like I know I was seven years old, but I just you know well, I mean, even our childhood, yeah, even in the 2000s, yeah, it was not a welcome. It was not widely received and accepted, yes, it wasn't. And and in lots of places it's still not. If there is somebody that let's say you don't agree with their ways or their opinions, further dividing yourselves with you know, conflict and tension and all that, that only makes it worse. Yeah, you can still love somebody and disagree with them all day long. Just sit down and talk to each other like people. Yeah, don't walk up behind Jack and be like, are you gay? My gosh. That that took me out. Nobody really wants everybody to walk up to them and give them all their opinions for no reason. No, don't don't solicit unless asked, please. So long day, huh? Yeah. I just Joey really just has no idea how to handle this. Well would she? Well, but it's just so I cannot imagine. I really can't. I don't know how we got so far off. I don't know either, but she does not apologize. Okay, uh, I'm gonna say this for my VIP. I was like, oh do we have a VIP page I don't know about? What the heck? Probably this is for the exclusive content. You gotta pay$100 to get the next statement that I'm gonna say. Oh my gosh. My MVP moment, I'm gonna say. But I'm glad that Pacey stood his ground. Yeah, technically apologize for the spitting, but not for standing up for what's right, but and still get suspended. I do think that the teacher, um, the um the principal and the counselor were proud of Pacey. Yeah, you didn't see the principal smirking and smiling in the direction of Mr. Peterson, like, mm, he's right. Yep, yeah. But she's and I but I do respect that she had to do what she had to do. She had to suspend him. I I get that. There was a situation um when Brody was in early middle school, did not even go to the school he goes to now, so it's not nobody would know who it is. But I don't even know the other kid's name. There was a situation in like PE or something, I think he was in elementary, and they all had to go to PE. And this one kid was being made fun of because he couldn't do something in PE. And Brody like he came home one day and was like saying, I'm gonna knock this kid out. And mom was being like, Brody, no, you're not, all this. And I I remember saying, because I was teaching at the time, so I not here, but I remember saying, as a teacher, they will have to send you to the principal's office. But I would not advertise this, but if the kid in my class did something that stood up to another kid for what's right, I would say, I gotta do this, I gotta send you, but I'm proud of you. And I'd tell their parents the same thing. I'm proud of what they did. And I told Bertie that, I said, if you're standing up for another kid, you're gonna get in trouble, but you do it. Knock him out. It never came to that, but I'm just saying, so they have the principal teachers, they have to do what they gotta do. Yeah, but we can still be proud of you for standing up for what's right. So he gives us the right way. Yes, they're not proud of spitting. I I'm not either. I don't like that part. I I agree a thousand percent. He's sitting on the dock though, and Andy walks up. What do we think? Um, he's hurt. He is. And I mean, she tries to say that she's there to apologize, but in some ways he doesn't quite let her get there. But at the same time, I wondered, were you really gonna get to that? Because it didn't feel like it. I think that Andy's personality herself is because she's such a perfectionist too, and her grades mean so much to her, that she is one to just be like, Okay, I'll do I don't even have to feel this way, but sure, I'll just do what I have to do for my people pleaser. She is a people pleaser. But I think that because of the conversation that Pacey had just had with Dawson sitting outside the office, I'm getting ahead of myself because this is my MVP moment. When he asks Dawson, would you have done it? And Dawson says no, he's honest with him. And Pacey, Pacey's face drops because he feels like he's disappointed Dawson in a way, and then he says, Are you ashamed of me?

unknown 41:54

Right.

SPEAKER_01 41:55

And Dawson says, Never ashamed. I would never and I think that that shows a lot to Pacey of like Dawson does not agree with what I did fully, right? But he is still supporting me. And that conversation to me is what led into what he's feeling and saying to Andy of like, you don't have to agree with every decision that I make and everything that I do. That would make the world a boring place. But I needed support and I needed you to be there for me today. And I and I agree with him. I know she was being there for her brother in a way, but she still wasn't fully even there for Jack. No, she didn't know how to navigate into this situation. So, you know, I mean you could almost argue that you know everybody's being a little selfish here. So and can we fully blame them? No. If they all responded perfectly, we would sit be sitting here going, that's not relatable or realistic. Yeah, so but we have the full authority to still criticize however we want to because it's our podcast.

unknown 42:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:58

But I do I don't I can criticize Andy, but I still probably I have that people pleasing in me too a little bit to some degree. And I've gotten a lot better the older I get, but and situationally, but so I I I can't say that I wouldn't fully be like her in some ways, but I also just know that I don't agree with a lot of things that other people that I'm close to do, but I you support them. You love them, you support them the way that you can without without um making them feel like without creating a wedge. That but also without like without allowing them to think that they were completely right. Like they're like with Dawson and Pacey. There it went it was done in a way of like, I don't agree with this, but I love you and I support. you and I stand by you so so there's a way to do that in all of our relationships of uh instead of being like yeah woo like you know like so that Pacey thinks yeah I have the right to do it and everyone agrees but then and the flip side of that is being like no I disagree with everything that you did and I can't support this he supported his friend without supporting the action that's what I'm getting at he supported his friend without supporting the action so MVP moment to Dawson Dawson and that conversation but yeah Dawson's actions in the way he was to Pacey for sure did you think I was gonna give it to Pacey for being the hero he's the one addicting to the addicted to the hero complex I don't a thousand percent disagree with that statement right but at the same time but that's why I love him but it's kind of his brand but it's also like cutting deep dang well need saving so there's a lot in more ways than what there's a lot of things that were cutting deep in this episode it was it was what else I think that's it I did get tickled though the line from Jack do you ever feel like you're trapped in one of those lifetime movies? And the pamphlets those gosh yeah okay that was funny that was funny I really don't think there were any movies mentioned at all were there don't ever ask me that question. I don't think there were just Dawson's movie if anything yeah but I and I liked uh in the beginning when when Jack had made that replica of Capeside so that they could do aerial shots and and Pacey has the comment of ooh the the magic of a cam camera angles or something like that. I I like that because the way that they shoot things you really oh my gosh I mean liter suits have you ever do you know what I'm talking about the show Suits I know what it is but I haven't really okay so it was based in New York not filmed in New York City though. No what filmed in Canada? Yeah but they put the and they were like in this so their their offices were in the skyrise building with windows all and you see the New York skyline okay not even a real skyline of any kind it was a shower curtain with like a picture on it I love knowing the behind the scenes of stuff like that. My mom went she's obsessed with suits she literally will finish it and restart it immediately she loves it so much but I told her that one time and she was like you just ruined it oh yeah she hates that kind of stuff yeah I love it I like to know the behind the scenes and ins and outs and it just cracks me up so what was your rating I wrestled with this one I'm going with an eight though still okay if it was not for the spitting I probably would have gone with 10 okay I mean because I I feel the need to explain why um even with all of the main characters and how they're I'll get to that in a second. All the main characters and how they're dealing with and trying to understand and grasp what's going on is he isn't he why would the teacher do this all this I thought it was I thought it was really realistic but not in the way that I ever had to deal with that so I can't fully say it was realistic because I never had to deal with it but I but I I see it that it could be realistic. It wasn't cookie cutter of like we all stand with you Jack and we support you no matter what you like you know what I mean. Right. Um but yeah I'm giving it a four and it's not anything personal it's just like the overall feeling of of finishing it was I just felt mixed emotions that are just kind of like uncomfortable it left me on a four okay okay so um you know what kind of makes me laugh is like Jen is literally nowhere to be seen with this group like how is she not somewhere even on the peripheral of the situation with Jack because nothing in this show really tracks consistently just she's just eating a cupcake with this I mean this is the first time we've seen Bessie and how many episodes true just gonna throw that out there there's no true continuity I mean there is but not in the small little details right unless at least rephrase okay I'm about to spin something oh God okay are we gonna do what we thought about were we gonna I'm so glad you remember because I forgot I've been waiting on this okay you have to start it I know this was a complete derailing expectations and I'm giving it all back to you um complete derailing of expectations and in all right in pursuit of I'm gonna give you I'll give you a phrase in pursuit of true feelings that's what I was hoping you'd say I don't know what I'm saying next but anyways that's what I was thinking and true feelings wait in pursuit of true feelings coming out period yep I don't know if that was successful or not but it worked what's your MVP moment I mean I I really appreciated that same scene with Dawson um in the end I feel like Pacey's very tactful way of apologizing yet still standing by what he was standing up for would probably still ultimately be because I don't want to choose the same thing as you know what I really loved because this is this is kind of me right now when Pacey was gonna go after Jack and check on him in that first the first time he was reading the board and the teacher demanded he sit down and then he tells everybody to open their books and Pacey just walks back and sits there and stares at him. I have that thought in my head every day like if someone that should not be speaking to me comes and speaks to me I just want to be like and it's like a challenge of like I know it is and Pacey his death stare he has perfected over the last few episodes yeah and it's it's lethal I like that okay okay I'm ready for the part two so that we can see does Jack come out I know right does Pacy come back from this grade wise? Well I've just and that's a wrap on today's episode if you loved hanging out with us make sure you like and subscribe on YouTube where you can watch this full video and follow us on Spotify so you never miss a rewatch you can also find us on Instagram and TikTok for clips, behind the scenes comments and all the nostalgia your heart can handle. Leave us a comment rate the show and share the episode with a fellow who truly means more than you know and we love hearing we'll be back every Thursday and Tuesday with more laughs and more nostalgia and of course more rewatches until then keep the remote close the memories closer and always be kind and press what was that it it just felt the spirit just moved again it was what I was feeling in that moment and it can't be held back I went real demurer on the last I didn't really feel that talk about roll the credits press play again two roommates one remote is fully the I editing us producing also us recording yep still us posting it everywhere shockingly us again two roommates one remote zero team so please clap accordingly thank you very much