What Did We Completely Forget About This Episode? (Dawson’s Creek 2x17)

Season 2, Episode 17 humbles, haunts, and lightly unhinges everyone—in the best way.

In this episode, we break down Dawson getting a serious reality check when his new film teacher, Nicole Kennedy, absolutely does not hold back about his latest movie. Let’s just say… confidence was high, and then it wasn’t. We talk about whether she was too harsh or exactly what he needed to hear.

Meanwhile, Joey heads to the Capeside Fair and gets her future read by a mysterious fortuneteller—because of course she does—and is told to stay open to new opportunities. Enter: a spontaneous, slightly chaotic encounter with a photographer that pulls Joey out of her comfort zone and into a completely different version of herself. On a rewatch, this storyline feels like a subtle but important shift for her character.

Elsewhere, Jen is busy playing matchmaker, trying to convince Grams to reconnect with someone from her past (which is exactly as entertaining as it sounds), and Pacey starts to feel a little unsure about where things stand with Andie—because nothing in Capeside can stay simple for long.

We talk about confidence, taking risks, unexpected advice, and why this episode feels like a mix of reality checks and new beginnings.

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Season two of Dawson’s Creek continues to challenge its characters in unexpected ways—and this episode proves that sometimes the truth hurts… but it might also be exactly what you need.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

I had every intention of like actually washing my hair today and it being down and clean and I mean it's Saturday so I wasn't gonna put on full makeup or anything, but because I don't even do that for work. But then you texted earlier than I anticipated. You know, I never anticipated you to be.

SPEAKER_01 0:22

Okay. I'll tell them myself if I have to.

SPEAKER_02 0:26

Did you see?

SPEAKER_01 0:27

I woke up like this.

SPEAKER_02 0:30

Well now from the concert last night. My hair is eight days old right now. Okay. Um, and I was like, I mean, I was gonna shower and everything before you got here. And then I was I'm now like a gardener. Um, you know, like last time that we recorded, I'm basically a gym rat. And then now I'm a gardener. So this is just what I look like because I will still have to go out and help with some garden stuff in a little bit. So here it is. And if you don't pick up on my jokes, I'm not a gym rat. I walked to the neighborhood. It's okay. It's okay. I'm waiting on that gym to let me out of the membership. Been there, I've done that. You get locked in for a year. I had every intention and I went for so long. When is the year up? Uh, this was the last month I had to pay. Okay, okay. Yeah, yeah. So I'll be saving a whole bunch of money.

SPEAKER_01 1:28

That's good. That's a good feeling.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

I know, I know. It it kind of sucks because at the same time you're like, what if I decide that I want to go back? But oh, I for sure need to, but at this point I've been gone too long. I'm afraid they'll look at me and be like, she's back for a day. Uh so now I'm like, I'll find a new one. I feel that. Yeah, well, that's why I look crusty, anyways. You do not look crusty. You for me to not look gross and actually look put together, you gotta catch me on a Sunday. That's the only time I'm fixing my hair, the only time I'm putting on makeup. Unless I'm doing something after work, right? Welcome to Press Play again, two Roommates One Remote, the rewatch podcast where we dive back into the shows and movies we couldn't stop talking about in college and probably still can't. We're your hosts, Anna and Megan, two roommates with one remote, ready to laugh, debate, and maybe get a little too nostalgic as we revisit the classics and discover a few new favorites along the way. So grab your popcorn, press play, and hang out with us as we rewind it all, episode by episode, movie by movie. Episode 17. Yes, ma'am.

SPEAKER_01 2:53

All right, the synopsis for episode 17 says Dawson's confidence as a filmmaker is shaken when his new film class teacher, Nicole Kennedy, a Hollywood movie studio executive on sabbatical in Capeside, speaks her mind and tells him the painful truth about his new romance movie and its faults. Meanwhile, the future is unsure for Joey when she visits a gypsy fortune teller at the annual Capeside Fair, who advises her to be open to every new opportunity that crosses her path. Shortly after, Joey stumbles into Colin Manchester, a gorgeous photographer who brings out Joey's free-spirited side during a wild photo shoot. Also, Jen tries to persuade Grams to go out on with an old flame, and Pacey becomes more uncertain about where he stands with Andy.

SPEAKER_02 3:41

There's a lot to unpack in this one. There he is. This episode aired on March 10th, 1999. It has a popularity rating of 80 out of 128. And an IMDB user of 104 out of 120. Wow. That's kind of surprising. Yeah. I know I thought so too. It's kind of I I didn't not like this episode. Right. Like it was it's not my favorite by any means. Cause it just kind of felt like it's kind of neutral, but on a happy side. Yeah, yeah. It's it's still good. We laughed a few times. Yes. So they they open this up with a little bit of a misdirect. Dawson and Joey are watching his movie and she is just raving about it. And then they direct us to thinking Jack is the one who created it. So then immediately it's like, oh, okay, Dawson is dreaming. And so his worst nightmare is playing out in front of us. Yes. It was comical. I think even more so because our dreams, we you know, our dreams don't have to make sense. And so Jack asking Joey to marry him and run off to Tinsel Town. It's like, okay, they're sophomores. But that's the dream world. Like you know, but it was funny.

SPEAKER_01 5:07

It was very funny, you know, when Dawson's trying to be like, hey, wait a second, I filmed this. You were there, you know. Yeah. Yeah, our our dreams don't make sense. But I do think that that like spills over into how he feels like in his day-to-day and other interactions, whether he means to or not. Yeah. Um, on some kind of a subconscious level, I think that that already left him a little unsteady.

SPEAKER_02 5:38

And then you add to that with the insult to injury that Kennedy gives. Yeah. He, you know, when we first started the show, he had no reservations about his movie. He was very proud. He was good. Like he didn't care what anybody else said or thought about it. He was confident in his own abilities. Yes. But now we see more insecurities with much more impressionable about it. He is. And he just he he he's not confident in his his own work anymore. And he he even says to her, It's only my second baby.

SPEAKER_01 6:12

Well, I feel like that's part of, you know, of an artist's perspective or like a director's perspective at times. Like you can be so gung-ho and confident in what you've got or what you can do. And then as you start making progress, somehow people's opinion starts to have or hold more weight for whatever reason.

SPEAKER_02 6:38

And it it really can kind of be your demise if you'll let it. Yeah. But he is on his downward spiral right now. Oh gosh. Because it's not just the movie, he is still seeing everybody around him kind of moving forward, like he said in a previous episode. Um, he sees Joey and Jack really bonding as a friendship. He doesn't even he doesn't interact with he he does interact with Jen in the very beginning. Um, but his main story is with the art teacher. I mean the film teacher, sorry, yeah. Film teacher in this episode. So he is just in full hero worship. Yeah, in the beginning. Yeah. Because she is an actual writer for movies. Yes. And she's just there on our sabbatical.

SPEAKER_01 7:26

I did remember some of this, and I I think I remember what's coming up in a few episodes with her.

SPEAKER_02 7:33

Um, you know, she mentions that his dad talks a lot about him in the teacher's lounge or wherever. Yeah, Mitch has started subbing. Yes. English, of all things. Of course, because Mr.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

Peterson likes to. I know, I know. But it just it's still, you know, whether or not you track that, Mitch doesn't strike me as an English teacher. And it makes me wonder like are there any credentials for substitutes?

SPEAKER_02 8:05

Uh some places are different. I mean, some places you can literally just be in college and you cut you just need to pass back a background check. Some places you need to have an associate's degree. I mean, but everywhere's different really. Because it's like what history or background does Mitch have that. You know, do you follow me? I mean, not that we're fact checking here because no, but I mean he could very like in the real world he could very well. But yeah. Everywhere is different, every district is different, I would say. Yeah. I mean, I remember in school we would have some like kids in the class, their parents would come in and substitute, but it was only for like a day or two if the teacher was out and they had a pre-plan, you know, left for them to just tell us to do whatever assignment. So it wasn't like they were actually teaching teaching per se. But I mean, it would strike me to think that this could be a that's he's a semi-long-term situation. He's a long-term sub. And like that would be the same as a like a maternity leave. Right. But for those type of situations, you want a retired teacher, really. Right. You want somebody who is still going to continue the way you would do it. Yes. Continue the education. Yes, because a long-term period, yes, they would miss too much than just a day of them doing busy work. It's like no big crazy. Right. If you're out for a day, just please don't let anybody kill each other or burn my classroom down. And just please pick up at the end of the day. That's all you're asking for at that point. But long term, no, I mean, uh some places are desperate for subs though, so they can't be picky.

SPEAKER_00 9:50

Like they just say we'll be able to do that.

SPEAKER_02 9:53

Yeah, exactly. But Dawson is he says, I'm glad you got a job that and one that you like, but Dawson's still a little embarrassed.

SPEAKER_01 10:02

Yeah. Yeah, and he makes the comment like, Don't think I'm calling you dad. Yes, I'll get beat up. Yes, you know, it makes it just just a thought. You know, nobody's really talking about Mitch being there. Yeah, not asking for a Mitch storyline like that, not at all.

SPEAKER_02 10:21

We'll get more Mitch as the show goes on, but um, this whole episode though, we have the Winterfest, the Capeside Winterfest, where they have different it's almost like a little flea market or a little, it would almost be like a little just a Saturday market where people are set up with their tents selling different things. Like Graham's has her quilts and baskets and her knick-knacks, her little decorative clothes pins. The fair. Uh-huh. Okay, yeah, yeah. What? I was just, I didn't realize it was like a just a Saturday thing. I thought they were No, it was no, that's what I'm saying. It's almost like if you go to the farmer's market, just without all the you know, produce and stuff. But it's like people have just different tents set up and they're selling it like a flea market or like first Monday, you know, like things like that. But this this is like the fair for them that's coming to town without all the rides that we would be used to. But um they have a psychic, they have fortune telling the yeah, they have art exhibits and Pacey is working at the sheriff's department booth the safety mascot, Captain Skippy. He and Andy convinces him to do it. God love her. His accent that he anytime he changes his voice for something, it's the same. It is, it's the same voice that he changes to, and it's it's really funny. He was he when he stoops down to the level uh of the kids. I know you are, but what am I? It's funny, it's funny, but if I'm gonna be honest, it did give me the ick a little bit. It's funny because uh it's pacey, but it's I was like, I don't like them. I I don't want to be like from a in a romantic angle, yeah. Yeah, but no, if that was hysterical. Um, but what I mean he did look very cute in this episode for what it's like. He is that's just but but honestly, I think he's wearing clothes that fit his body, not like too big, but also I think he's probably filling out more instead of that scrawny little true.

SPEAKER_01 12:39

I mean, he he looks like at the least, some of what he's wearing is almost a slight bit more mature. Not saying too old or anything like that, but it just I don't know, like the the scene of him and Andy walking and he's got his coat on and all that, like he looks so handsome there.

SPEAKER_02 13:01

Not just like cute little boy, he looked handsome, and he has no interest in going to this winter fest. She convinces him to be Captain Skippy, yes, and then she says she wants to go to the fortune teller. Yes, he thinks it's a scam. Of course. Have you ever gone to any type of fortune teller? Me either. But you know what? They're on the way to Tuscaloosa, like right before you get into it was like my the way I would travel. I know what you're talking about. There was always I don't know the name of it, but it was a giant sign. Yes, it advertised her yes, her poem readings or something. Yes, yes, and it's like the railroad track was over here and the house was behind it. I remember seeing it. Yes, okay, that's so funny. That I've never gone to one, never done any of that because it would be scammy. Uh I'm not giving you my money. No, no, so but it just always cracks me up because every time I would drive by it, I would think, who is actually going? Yeah, because there was never a car in the parking lot. It I think it was a house. It was who's coming into some stranger's house behind the railroad tracks? Mm-mm. What are you telling me my future that it's ending right now? I mean, you might show up or come up missing after that. But it was a really big sign. It was a very big sign. It just makes me laugh. I just thought about that one. But they were all about going to this fortune teller and she was perfect. Her eyeshadows were. Oh, yes, yes. I thought that she was the cigarette for the smoke effect. Oh, yeah. And Jack and Joey are both yes. It's funny. So Jack and Joey go first. Yes. And well, they had this whole cute little conversation that she says that she misses kissing. Yes. She doesn't necessarily want a relationship, but she does miss the kissing. And so Dawson walks up when they're kind of giggling, and and he tries to ask what's going on, but they brush it off. And that just adds to his if we're if if if the whole show is from his perspective, I can see where it's like constantly everything is just coming at him. You know what I mean? But we watch it from everybody's perspective. We we see all the different sides of it. But for him, it feels like I I've had this horrible, horrible nightmare that Jack that Jack is still getting the girl, even though he's gay. He yells out in his dream, he's gay. So Jack is still not. Jack has got Jack got his girlfriend. Yes. Jack now has gotten his friend. And in his dream, his movie. Yes, yes. And and so then he walks up to try and join the friendship conversation, and he kind of gets brushed off. And then as the episode goes on, his movie isn't good enough for this really big name writer of movies. And I we let's get to that in a minute because I kind of want to break it down more. But Joey missing the kiss, and so Jack convinces her we're gonna go to the to the fortune teller to find out when her next kiss is gonna be. She needs it to be before the next millennium. Yeah. Which is like so.

SPEAKER_01 16:17

He's 15 and 16 year olds are so tragic.

SPEAKER_02 16:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 16:21

But I know we were too. Yes, but I didn't fear that my next kiss wasn't gonna be until the next millennium.

SPEAKER_02 16:29

So well, no, but they were so close to the next one.

SPEAKER_01 16:34

Oh, that's true. And we were not, you know, like so.

SPEAKER_02 16:38

They were seven months away.

SPEAKER_01 16:40

I didn't think about that part.

SPEAKER_02 16:41

Yeah.

unknown 16:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:42

Okay, well then that's just overrated. Calm down. Seven months is anyway, move on. Yeah. So they go in and this this fortune teller. Five dollars. She is like, do you know uh someone that starts with a C? Yes. Carol, Casey, what do you know? All of Corey. To get a reaction. Anything.

SPEAKER_01 17:10

Anything she borrowed something from you. Does that mean anything to me?

SPEAKER_02 17:14

Well, it's elementary school, so she's like a pencil, maybe. Yes, yes, your pencil. But then it shifts and a breeze blows through her and she's like, You are you need to say yes to every opportunity.

SPEAKER_01 17:29

Yes, you've you've been through more heartbreak than a life or something.

SPEAKER_02 17:34

Anybody your age. Yes, which is true, but it's like back, you could say that to anybody and you could make it apply to you, you know. But any any teenager could go, Well, my boyfriend didn't just break up with it. You know, like anybody can make it fit for this. Yes, so she's not saying anything that's new. She says that, and then she says, You should you should take every opportunity and say yes that comes your way. And a tall, dark stranger is gonna come into your life. Okay, Joey perks up on that one. I perk up on the say yes to every opportunity, but also that there's a fork in the road coming. Yes. And when she says, Which way should I go? She says that she'll be fine or something as long as she follows her heart. Yeah. I don't like that because that's stressful. My heart doesn't. I will have options, but don't don't narrow it down to just two. Now say yes to every opportunity. I'm all for it. As long as it's not like harmful to me.

SPEAKER_00 18:39

Yeah, you know you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_02 18:41

But I'm all for it. Ask me to go somewhere, sure. It may end up terribly, but it's a story to tell. Doing for the plot. Exactly. In a little over a week, I'm hopping on a plane for less than 24 hours. I know. For the sole purpose of maybe two minutes, granted. Who cares? But I'm doing it for the plot. I'm excited for you. And who you never know. You never know. So they leave the fortune teller tent, and Joey thinks it's a load of crap, basically. And then they walk up and she sees this tall, dark, handsome stranger standing there. At her art booth. So she starts to believe what Madame, whatever her name was, through the Z, says. I don't remember her name. And they he don't blame her for thinking he liked her and was flirting with her. He was staring intently at her. He was. But I know he just wanted to photograph her.

SPEAKER_01 19:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:43

But he he was giving her signs.

SPEAKER_01 19:46

As as they want you to think.

SPEAKER_02 19:48

Yes. I never got the vibes that he was more interested in Jack. No.

SPEAKER_01 19:54

But when they actually get to the photo shoot, I start losing the idea of him being interested in her.

SPEAKER_02 20:03

Uh-huh. I totally loved Jack being the hype man. Uh-huh. I mean, this is the episode where it changes for me with Jack. Yes. I love him. I love him and his friendship. Yes. Yes. Agreed. But I there was like a side look from the photographer to Jack at one point that I thought, I remember this. Yeah. I remember where this is headed. Joey. I'm glad we don't spiral into a complex about this now. Me too, but she and Jack both need to work on some gait art. Yeah, she tells him that. She tells him that, but she herself needs to work on it too. He gets offended when she says that. He's like, they don't teach a class on this.

SPEAKER_01 20:49

No, he says, Oh, let me just jump on that. They had they had a class down at the Civic Center. Which, I mean, it it is a slightly insensitive comment. Let's be honest.

SPEAKER_02 20:59

But remember this, first of all, this is her personality. Second of all, she feels like this is their friendship, that they can do this. I mean, she even even before he came out as gay, when they went to the art museum and she was talking about him being clumsy and just he can't do anything, she takes it a little too far to where it does hurt feelings. She doesn't intend for it to, though. No. So I think this was the same situation. But I agree. Really, what all comes out after the photo shoot, she thinks they're about to kiss, it gets a little awkward. He asks for Jack's info. Yes. And she says yes to about Jack. Um, and but she ends up going back to Connor, the photographer, and she says, I shouldn't have accepted for him. He's just not coming. And this whole conversation, yes, it was a bit on the nose. The conversation between her and Connor about I don't remember why I wanted to break up and it was a bit on the nose.

SPEAKER_01 21:53

He's on a bit of a rebound because somebody that he was with, he had been friends for.

SPEAKER_02 22:00

With him for a very long time. And now he doesn't have the friend or the relationship. Yes. So here come some cliche parallels. It was it was a bit but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:11

I mean, for what it is worth, there is something to be said for sometimes over time, details can get fuzzy. Yeah. And that can be a dangerous place to be in. Uh just just saying.

SPEAKER_02 22:30

Like when you've had enough time and space that you start thinking, well, maybe I don't remember why we broke up. Or even why it was so bad. Right now I think she's kind of halfway to that point. She's more in the I know what I said. Yes. And why, but I or I know why I broke up with him, what I said. I don't remember why I felt that way.

SPEAKER_01 22:51

Correct.

SPEAKER_02 22:51

Or where that came from. She's kind of in that place. She's not full-blown where the photographer is. No. Because she's she's kind of wish she's going back and forth of like, should I just go back to him? Should I it but she too is is bordering on that impressionable point where well maybe that's where I am, you know. And but she also, I think she just I think really why she continues to go back to him is because she doesn't want to lose him completely.

SPEAKER_01 23:17

So and it's it's this it's a lack of experience in love and life where that's something that's comfortable and familiar, and she felt safe.

SPEAKER_02 23:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 23:29

So in some ways, that is gonna be what she compares things to, but at the same time, she wants something, and it seems like that's the only thing that she wants because it's kind of the only thing that she really knows.

SPEAKER_02 23:43

I think part of it though is she misses the friendship. Oh, yeah, and so the only way she knows to even get back to somewhat of that is to just give in and give him what he wants, or or just go back to him. So but that's why the relationship never works out because that's they don't work on how to actually form a new friend. They're trying to go back to an old friendship that is not there anymore, instead of creating and like cultivating this new friendship and figuring out who each other is now, correct. But again, they're young, they don't know how to do that. Sometimes we don't know how to do that, but like I'm not saying that we have to figure it out, but um age doesn't always help that. She does know, she does go to his house though, after this conversation with Connor, and she really is debating on going up the ladder and and talking to him, and at the same time, she doesn't know it, but he's sitting there at the end of his tumultuous today and staring at her photo, and then he turns the light off, and that she waited too long, the light goes out, and so she decides to turn around. And what happens at the end, the little cliffhanger that we are gifted with is a tall, dark stranger, so to speak. He's a stranger to her, is standing on her front porch, he turns around, and it is her dad out of prison. So, and then the show ends. So the next episode is really gonna be why, how'd you get here? What are you doing? Where do we go from here? So I'm I'm looking forward to it because the next few episodes, the rest of the season, I'm looking forward to the episodes, yeah, really.

SPEAKER_01 25:26

And I know you've seen all in season two, so right, but I mean, like we've said, a lot of this I don't necessarily remember, or I'm I'm beginning to remember some parts, yeah, but i I'd only seen it the one time previously, and it's not something that like I'm watching everything and know exactly what's coming. Right.

SPEAKER_02 25:46

Well, I don't remember every little thing that happens in these. I mean, I've said this before. If you were to give me a Winter Hill episode, I could tell you every storyline that's happening. This one, like when it says psychic friends, I knew it was the Winterfest. And the I forgot about Joey's dad. I forgot, like, there's little things. I knew it was Graham's and her date that didn't happen. But, anyways, um, I'm saving Dawson for last. That's fine. Grams and Jen are setting up her little tent, and this man that she graduated with comes up and is really adamant about taking her out for dinner, says uh once again the line of I won't take no for an answer.

SPEAKER_01 26:30

I don't like that line.

SPEAKER_02 26:32

I don't either.

SPEAKER_01 26:33

He wasn't as icky as of course uh, but it's but I don't like it dangerously close, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:42

Coming up with his single red rose, yes, and then to find out he his wife wasn't feeling well, and that's why he had to cancel. But there's a part of me that feels like isn't she like not well or maybe yeah, yeah, because he does come back around. Yeah, yeah, she's like really sick, or it's like the same situation, maybe as Graham's and Graham. I feel like I remember there being an element to that. We get an explanation, yeah. It's not just a dirty scumbag. Yeah, but this episode makes you think that a little bit because if she accepts, Jen and her have this whole makeover day, which really sweet bonding, and then she goes to wait for him and she's sent by the fire and he never comes because his wife wasn't feeling well, and so that's when that storyline closes out, and it's like, oh man.

SPEAKER_01 27:32

There's a part of me that wonders, did they say how she knew?

SPEAKER_02 27:35

Did he come by or something? But he didn't say there's he had to have come by, had to because there's no cell phones. Yeah, we didn't see it though. We just the next thing we see is Jen notices every crossover, so no, we we didn't see it.

SPEAKER_01 27:49

But she looked very pretty. She did now. Okay, for what it's worth, it did break my heart a little that okay, let me back up before that. When he first asked her out, her little panic moment of no, no, no, I I couldn't. Yeah. That was cute.

SPEAKER_02 28:04

Yeah. I I get where that comes from. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:08

It's like anyway, but then then it immediately like he's walked off, and she starts into the whole thought process of like she's feeling emotional about feeling like that part of her life it's over. Right. She closed that chapter, yeah, and then she immediately starts thinking about her appearance, and that just it turns a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 28:35

It doesn't go away. It does not go away no matter what's going on. Is I guess that thing that that part of life never goes away, but it doesn't, because even when you feel confident in who you are, there's still a part of you where where you go, I just don't look like that, or I don't I can't pull that off, or I can't wear these things.

SPEAKER_01 28:55

Like you know. I know, but feeling her age and she says she looks like she could be his mother.

SPEAKER_02 29:02

I know you do not. No, you don't. I know it was but Jen tells her she's gonna introduce her to makeup. Yes, and they do have it was a sweet bonding moment together. Um I think Gran's looks great all the time. I love her. It was fun to see her with her hair down though for what it's worth. Red. Oh yeah. Red Bob. I know, so cute. Um, so we'll we'll wait to hear from what was his name? Wit. Wit. Wit. We'll wait to hear from him again. Oh, but her comment when he walks up and says who he is, and she says, Oh, I thought you were dead. I don't want to bring the same room, but I can't wait for the age that we can say that to be. I don't want to get there. That means we're close to that too. But it's just funny. It's like, oh I thought you had that. I thought you were dead. Well, here you are. Wouldn't that be retro obituary one day in the morning paper? I feel some type of way about that comment considering my last name.

SPEAKER_01 30:23

So anyway.

SPEAKER_02 30:27

So Pacey and Andy, Pacey is doing his little good deed of being Captain Skippy and the puppet of the dog, and she goes to see the fortune teller on her own, and she we don't hear what is said. No, but we can see her face. So she doesn't like what is said. She walks out of the tent. I'm not gonna lie to you. If a fortune teller is reading Andy's future, it's pretty spot on. It's not gonna be overly optimistic. Her just neurotically anxious self is gonna read the past is just a preview of what's to come. Spot on. Spot on. It's the only one that wasn't a scam. I'm just saying it if actually what she says to Pacey was probably my favorite. But he could have got that from a therapist. But thank you. We need to bring that back. Yeah, who needs the therapist this week of this episode? Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of people they all need the therapist. They really all, but if we had to give the award, I probably ooh. Who would I give the award to? Well, honestly, the easy way out would be to say Jack because he's going through a major, a major change here. Yeah, another easy one would be Andy, bless her heart. Yes. But we we are to assume that she is still seeing her therapist. She yes, she is. She is going or has been to some therapy. Um, I mean, I I'd like to see Dawson see somebody just because he does have so much potential. Yeah. And again, we'll get to that later, but yeah, you know. Anyway. Um, so Pacey, though, catches her, sees her. She won't say what happened, but he can tell she's upset. He tries to when she's upset, he's upset. Especially when she won't tell him what's upsetting her. He he he doesn't know how to help her. But he also knows, I think, that when he sees her upset, he knows her history, he knows what she deals with, and there's a little bit of fear is into what could happen if this spirals. So he he approaches the fortune teller. Well, they're getting coffee, and um he she sits, he says, I forget what Ollie says, but she says it's oh he he he approaches her about um say something nice to people instead of saying things that's gonna upset them, and she says they want the truth, I'm gonna tell them the truth. And so then he sits down and he says that he's good and she says, Well, I'm gonna tell you anyways. Yeah. And so she reads him like a book, uh, this this boy who wears a mask for the world and he's confident and capable, but deep down he's just this little boy who um I can't remember what she says about about him, but he's he's really just everything we've been saying, he he does deal with all of these different issues, whether it's with friendships, grades, his relationship, his family, the town label that has been put on him. He deals with all of these things, so he does put on a mask to just kind of overcompensate all of those things. And so she read him like a book on that one. Again, any good therapist could also tell him that. I mean, we didn't be our life, yeah. We caught on to that already. Yeah, so he does eventually get Andy to tell him what was said, and that's when she says that her past is a preview into the future, and she just wanted to know that it was gonna be better. And I just thought in this scene that everybody needs somebody in their life that will look at them and say, When you don't believe it, I'll believe it for you. And that's what Casey says to her. When she can't believe that things are gonna be better, that he will do it for her. Yes, everybody needs somebody like that. Yes, they do, whether it's a family member, a friend, a significant other, somebody to just a mentor, somebody to say, I'm here. When you can't see this about yourself, I'll be the one to remind you or to believe it for you. And honestly, Dawson needs somebody like this right now, too. But Dawson. Oh dear, yes, he does need somebody, but I think that he's too deep right now to even to even appreciate or accept somebody saying that to him. It be because he wants validation in this movie because honestly, I think it hurts even worse when she criticizes it because it's his life. Oh, 1000. When she says it's uninspired, yes, it doesn't say anything, it's literally his life. Yeah, it may not be good, but I think she was ruthlessly hatefully hurtful. I think she wanted to like flaunt her experience and expertise around.

SPEAKER_01 35:54

I think that in its own way, this would have probably been her only opportunity to basically eat somebody for breakfast.

SPEAKER_02 36:03

So at this moment, she's the big fish in the little pond, and she her tone was harsh. Oh, disgusting. She couldn't even say it in like a kind any kind with any kind of kindness, kindness, not at all. She her tone was harsh and hateful. Yes. I mean, and it was purposeful. Yeah, yeah. Like you could read her facial expressions, her body language, everything.

SPEAKER_01 36:30

It was intentionally meant to be hurtful. And in some weird way, it gave the impression to me that it was basically her trying to give him a taste of what would come in the future if he made it to Hollywood.

SPEAKER_02 36:46

And I mean, I understand some people thinking that they're probably offering tough love, but at the same time, one opinion of one thing is not the end-all be-all. No, because at the end of the day, we know not everybody likes the same thing, not everybody gets excited about the same storylines. So also, all she is is whang, whang, whang in the green side. She just turned 16. Yes. So this honestly, you have to look at it from a lens of a six, a 15-year-old wrote this, directed it, yes, put it together, produced it all with a very she her comment about the production value. Well, first of all, he had half of $2,500. You're right. He didn't, he's doing what he can. Yes. And she is coming in as the the long-term sub-teacher, because Mr. Gold all of a sudden is gone. Yeah. But so she, I know that she doesn't have history in teaching, but she's coming in as a teacher to inspire young filmmakers. Right. The way you go about that makes a big difference. And she is just to me dream crushing. She yes, she is, but she I think she wants to just just just blunt her status a little bit. And she she, what did she say?

SPEAKER_01 38:10

Something along the lines of some people mistake her ambition for arrogance.

SPEAKER_02 38:18

I'm sorry, you can't call that just ambition when you are arrogantly so ugly. It was it was very hurtful. Yes. I mean, at that age when you do have a dream and a passion, for somebody to just word vomit all of that at you, it would be very hard to continue.

SPEAKER_01 38:41

Yeah. I mean, it it would that's potentially dangerous to have in the classroom. I mean that that could borderline if if it went that far, but it a a weird Mr.

SPEAKER_02 38:54

Peterson type situation in the film side of her even when she looked at him and said, Do I make you nervous? It was a weird weird line. I didn't like that part because that was Miss Tomorrow. Yeah. Miss Jacobs. Miss Jacobs, but yes, it it it did give a weird vibe. I was like, oh, this doesn't take this turn. Why do I feel this way? It was not, I didn't like it at all. No, I I'm not a fan of hers. No, and so with him and and his spiral and just I I feel for him. It's not that I'm like annoyed with how he's oh okay, Dawson. Wow. I feel for him because he is still in this downward trajectory of like the comparison game, too, because he's still comparing where he's at with even her, who's been in it for a long time. So there is no comparison. He's comparing the his friendship with Joey versus hers and Jack. I mean, just everything. There's a lot, there's a lot. He's still he's still struggling with this, and so I just really feel for that because I get it. I get that. And it's hard to kind of climb out from that because he's pretty down deep right now.

SPEAKER_01 40:06

Yeah, he is.

SPEAKER_02 40:07

And just when he went back to his room at night and he just just destroys everything that they worked on, him, Jack, and Pacey all worked on. It well, I get that. I really do because I used to go to my room pretty ticked off for whatever reason, and all I wanted to do was punch something. Yeah, and all I could do was like slam a door, like you know, like I don't I didn't have something to destroy like that. But I get the feeling of like nobody likes this anyways. Why do I still have this? Why do I want to be reminded of it? And just the anger, he has to let it out.

SPEAKER_01 40:40

But well, I mean, he's just been told that it was garbage, basically.

SPEAKER_02 40:47

So destroy into the trash. But real this is where the the perspective shift has to happen. Like you gotta look at what he did as a 15-year-old, and then the clo even not even just him, his classmates, Jen, produced it. The community and the school helped put it on grams with craft services. Right. I mean, it's everything that they did together. I mean, it the actors, the the the girl from college who played the Joey character. Yes, she she signed on and said yes, like he got someone who's actually in film classes, and then even like Cliff. Nope. No, Chris, Chris Chris. Yes. He him coming in and like we said the scene that he played, he did a good job. It's like, look at it as a whole. I wish somebody would say this to Dawson. Look at what you've done as a whole, don't look at what other people are that have no idea, right? Look at what you actually accomplished. Well, sadly, you would think or at least hope that someone who's in the business should be able to see that and be able to break down the value of each of those features and qualities of the film, and yet instead she uses it to basically just tear him down. Yeah, but you would hope that somebody with her level of experience would see that because she's in the industry, and there's a way to to um critique alongside of that, yeah. To say this is how it could be better. This is what I mean by saying anything here. This is this is what I mean by the production value looks less than right here. How can you make that better? Not just tell him how terrible it is. Yeah, don't give me your opinion if you don't give me the feedback. That's really what I was looking for. Yes. Was actual feedback from her because he respected her work. Yeah. Don't don't give me your two cents and expect it to have value. Yeah. This one was um Dawson is kind of if I didn't know how the show goes, Dawson is in his own little on his own little island right now, and he kind of feels like he doesn't have anybody who under he does, but it's like they're doing their own things. And and they're so used to always being about him. So I understand them being off, not worried about him right now. I get that. I don't blame them, but he is used to people continuously pumping him up or talking about his work or saying how proud they are of him, and he's not used to this change. So, but you know, she is right, going into that business, he's gonna have to get used to it. As a 16-year-old, I don't think you have to throw him to the deep end, throw him to the hill.

SPEAKER_01 43:42

So just I don't think so either. And you know, he gets his other part of the fortune about you know, that his soulmate or something walks among him and he immediately thinks Joey. Yeah. And I can't remember exactly what he says, but when he's

SPEAKER_02 44:00

Starts talking about like he's lost her or something, and she starts telling him basically that he hasn't, or like what it like what's lost is found and found is like yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 44:09

But he's basically reading into it with Joey in mind, but she's almost basically telling him, No, you're you're on a different track. Like she's you I got the impression that she's not talking about Joey. Do you follow me at all? Like he's trying to read into it for what he thinks he wants, and she's trying to tell tell him that that's not the right direction.

SPEAKER_02 44:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:34

But it it doesn't connect for him. That was my takeaway.

SPEAKER_02 44:39

Honestly, I think that Dawson's soulmate is movies. I I could see that. Making movies, directing. That's just my opinion. That's just me knowing where the show goes. Well, I think that's one of the main things that will fulfill him. Yeah. Yeah. And he he is good at it. He's good at making something out of working with what he's got. That's impressive. I respect him. I do too. Um so this this little bit of trivia, I just love it. This is like a spoiler for the show. Just but you know how it ends, so it's not spoiling anything for you. I don't remember what you tell me, but well, you know Pacey and Joey end up together.

SPEAKER_01 45:31

I know they end up together. I don't remember who he ends up with.

SPEAKER_02 45:34

Okay, well, this this is about Pacey though. Pacy calls himself a tall, dark, and handsome man in this episode. Joey gets the the fortune that she's a tall, dark, handsome stranger is gonna come into her life soon. So it's just a little I don't think it had anything to do with each other, but anyways, it's just a nice little parallel there. It's a nod, if it's anything. I don't know. I'm interested to know if they when they knew they wanted to write towards Pacey and Joey, but I do think it's fun to know to like watch it all the way through, see it all progress, how it happens, and then to go back to the beginning and you start seeing like that episode where they worked on the school project together. Like, I don't think an episode, whatever that was, that they knew, but it's fun as fans to go back and be like, that's when Pacey knew he loved her. I saw a girl on TikTok that said, Here's the difference when Pacey knew and when Dawson knew. Pacey, they were in a swamp hunting for bugs, yeah, and she was in her ratty clothes. Dawson, it was when she was all glammed up for the beauty contest. Yeah. Yep. So very true. Very true. That is the difference there, but anyways, do you have anything you want to mention before we kind of close this one out with something? We touched all of them. So do you have what's your rating? A six. I have no idea what mine is. I give the last one a six. This one I'm going five. Because the only reason I gave the last one a six is because of how funny it was. Right. This one, there was some comical things. But I think I'm just gonna because it was a pretty neutral episode. It was not bad, but it was not my favorite, but it still I appreciated that it still ended on not necessarily the cliffhanger.

SPEAKER_01 47:35

I appreciate um, but I just appreciated the fact that overall as a whole, it it it had its moments, obviously, but it did have kind of a lighthearted happiness.

SPEAKER_02 47:48

I like where the show is going in the sense of everybody is kind of we're we're getting storylines from each character at this point, even if they're short and small, like we're we're getting to see everybody, we're invested in everybody at this point, and I don't know that a lot of shows with this big of a cast today do that. No, because it requires more money, it requires more but you know, so I like that we are getting all of our characters all the time.

SPEAKER_01 48:16

Well, even if I feel like today's shows, if they do, they're kind of grouped into separate episodes, and it's not necessarily we're following everybody now in one episode.

SPEAKER_02 48:29

Right now, what I've noticed in a lot of episodes I'm watching now is they some characters may not even be in that episode if they have such a large cast, because that's if they have more guest stars, they have to pay them. And so it I I like that we're getting even if it's very small, like we didn't really get anything for Jen personally, but her with Grams, it's that friendship that's developing between them and the common respect between them. I appreciated the angle of where Grams has been trying to pour into Jen. Now Jen is getting to pour into Grams. Yeah. Jen comes alive to me when there is a mutual respect and an actual they actually like each other between her and Grams and her friendship with Jack as it comes. And I don't think you ever even got to that point when her and Jack really gotten to that point. So just trust me, it's it it is the best storyline for both of those characters, Jen and Jack. So that is when Jen really comes alive. Jack and Jen, Jen and Grams, those things.

SPEAKER_01 49:37

That's my favorite Jen that we well, even her hair, which it's been looking better, but her hair in this episode looked cute.

SPEAKER_02 49:43

It did. It did. So and we didn't get a whole lot of pasty, to be honest. I mean, not it was like we didn't get a whole lot of anyone, it was like enough of each of them, though.

SPEAKER_01 49:54

Right.

SPEAKER_02 49:54

It was perfect. It was little snippets for each one. So, okay. You make me want to bump it up to a six. I'm going six then. I'm gonna bump it up because of of everyone included, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I like it. Okay. Well, I didn't mean to coerce you into changing your rating. Who spun a wheel last time? Me. Yeah, you did. That's you. We're about to have to refill it again. All right, spinning away. Hmm. It was there to go. Oh my gosh. Okay. Who would go viral? Like from this episode. Let's just go with this episode.

SPEAKER_01 50:42

Who would go viral? There's a part of me that wants to say the photographer, but um let me think.

SPEAKER_02 50:54

Out of all of our difficult with these this episode. Or could it be the fortune teller? You know what? She popped into my head. Doing little TikTok clips of her collections. I think it would probably go far. Yeah, because I'm not saying Miss Kennedy. It would not be her. Um I think even, or um I mean it could even be like Jen and her makeover with grams. She could do makeovers. I could see that. But the fortune fortune teller is probably the best way to go with this one. Yes. Yeah. As a whole. Like, yeah. Okay. So if this aired today, who would get canceled? I think the teacher.

SPEAKER_01 51:38

Yeah, Miss Kennedy. Bye.

SPEAKER_02 51:41

Every time we get this one, we say a teacher is being canceled. Not our fault. Well, I'm sorry. This is their writing. Okay. Who would have a podcast apology episode?

SPEAKER_00 51:54

Hmm.

SPEAKER_02 52:01

I have two options here. Number one, Pacey, because he went off on a kid. I actually thought of that first, but then I thought he wasn't that bad. He wasn't that bad at all. Who's your second? Um, my second would be Joey because of how insensitive she is to Jack and the gaydar and this. Like, you know, I mean, now it if if this aired today, correct. If this aired, it would have to be. She honestly might get canceled. Correct. Because of just, I mean, or Dawson even just being so flippant about the gay elephant in the room. Like, you know, I think it would be this storyline though. Either they'd be canceled or they would definitely have to do a podcast apology tour. But okay, well, that was fun. Do you have an MVP? I should have been thinking about that. Um I have mine. Go ahead. It's when Pacy tells Andy if you don't believe it right now, I'll believe it for you. I'll do it for you.

SPEAKER_01 53:01

I think mine's gonna be Jen with Graham's. Yeah. That that storyline spoke to me.

SPEAKER_02 53:09

Yeah, it's sweet. Oh yeah. That's good. I love it. Okay, I'm so excited for the next one. Joey's dad.

SPEAKER_00 53:18

I know.

SPEAKER_02 53:19

Like, okay, I do have a question though. Okay. Like, how do you not know your dad's getting out of prison? Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 53:25

Like, I don't care how long he's been in there or like how long you thought he was gonna be in there. Like, that's information that you had to have known something about. You would think.

SPEAKER_02 53:34

But like it could be X number of years and then out early by this point. Yeah. So maybe they'll answer it in some capacity in the next episode of like how he got out and how we didn't know he was getting out. I don't know. And is he a changed man? That's my question. See, I don't remember all the details.

SPEAKER_01 53:57

I do remember him coming back. Like I did not, I it surprised me at the end of this episode. I'm not saying I remembered that it was coming.

SPEAKER_02 54:05

I just I remember that being part of some of the storylines at some point, but I don't necessarily know that I remember at this moment how it plays out. But I think it's not how I thought it was gonna be. If that makes any sense. Yeah. It's this season, so we'll oh yeah. That's a wrap on today's episode. If you loved hanging out with us, make sure you like and subscribe on YouTube where you can watch this full video and follow us on Spotify so you never miss a rewatch. You can also find us on Instagram and TikTok for clips, behind-the-scenes moments, and all the nostalgia your heart can handle. Leave us a comment, rate the show, share the episode with a fellow Roomie. It truly helps more than you know, and we love hearing from you. We'll be back every Tuesday and Thursday with more laughs, more nostalgia, and of course, more rewatches. Until the end, keep the remote close, the memories closer, and always be kind. Rewind and press play again. Bye Roomies. Bye! Roll the credits. Press play again. Two roommates, one remote.

SPEAKER_01 55:03

It's fully DIY. Editing, us, producing, also us, recording, yep, still us. Posting it everywhere, shockingly, us again. Two roommates, one remote, zero team. Supple recordingly. Thank you very much.