How Did This Get Past the Writers' Room? (Dawson's Creek 2x20)

Season 2, Episode 20 somehow manages to be part chaotic rom-com, part emotional spiral - and the whiplash is real.
In this episode, we break down Dawson, Joey, and Jen fully committing to a Parent Trap-style scheme to get Gail and Mitch back together... all while out to dinner. It's awkward, it's messy, and it's honestly kind of hilarious watching them try to control a situation that is very much out of their hands.
But while that's happening, there's a much heavier storyline unfolding. Pacey and Jack are doing everything they can to support Andie, whose mental state is quickly deteriorating as she begins seeing and talking to her late brother. This part of the episode takes a serious turn, and on a rewatch, it hits even harder knowing how real and intense her struggle becomes.
We talk about tonal whiplash, the difference between trying to fix things versus actually helping, and why this episode feels like two completely different stories colliding in one.

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Season two of Dawson's Creek proves it can juggle humor and heartbreak at the same time - and this episode leans fully into both.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Well, can I tell you about my trip to Boston? I want to hear about it. Okay, so less than 24 hours. Like it was such a whirlwind. I my flight was at 9 a.m. Tuesday. So I had planned to leave here like four. Because in my mind, I just needed two hours to get to Atlanta. Even though okay. And I knew it would be an hour ahead. So like my mind, I'm like, oh, seven o'clock, I'll I'm good. Well, I get in my car to leave at 3 57 a.m. I'm like, I'm doing great. And I put in my parking where I was gonna be parking, it said three and a half hours, which had that hour built in. So like it was the same, but it's 7:30. So I was like, okay, great. So I'm trying to like shave time off as I'm going, and it doesn't matter how fast I'm going. We're still sitting steady at 7:30. I'm like, yeah, awesome. Okay, cool. So then I get into Atlanta and it like starts giving me faster routes. I'm like, yeah, we need to do those. We need to do that. You did it twice, changed my route twice. I get stuck in school and work traffic. It was horrible. It took me, I didn't park until 8 a.m. Boarding started at 8 15. Oh god. I was off site. Yeah. Wasn't even at the airport yet. Had to get on my shuttle. I get dropped off. And I'm worried about security. And it's not even that. Like I was, I was just praying that lines weren't bad. But then I was like, I don't even know where my gate is, like how far I'm gonna have to run through this airport. So get dropped off. I am not fully running, but I'm walking so fast, having like internal dialogue with myself. Like first the whole drive there, I'm praying that my flight gets delayed. Just praying, just delay it just by a little bit. Right. Because I thought, I mean, I got Frontier and I got like the basic, basic, like non-refundable. It's not changing. Like, if I miss my flight, I still just have to pay for a new flight. Like, I was like, oh god, I'm turning around going home. Like I don't know what to do. So I'm booking it through this airport, and this lady like intersects me. She walks out in front of me in the airport and she's like, You look like you're in a hurry. I was like, Yeah. She said, Do you have Clear Plus? I said, No. She said, We're running a promo right now, it's free until May 5th. You sign up right now, I'll escort you to security. You'll go straight through that line. It's and it's usually because it's like you pay a membership, so it's usually not long. Not every airport has that line up. Yeah. So I was like, sure, sign me up. So like we're signing up. I said, it's not charging me anything today. No. And it didn't. So she said, and you can use this coming back too. Well, I could have if Boston had theirs open at 4 30 in the morning, which they did not. Didn't matter. So I get it off, fill out what I need to, and then she starts running. And I was like, oh, okay, sorry, let's go up with her. So I'm running. She's running down escalators. I'm having to run. So excuse me to people. It was so awkward. We get and she like escorts me to the front of the line.

SPEAKER_01 3:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:19

And I was literally through that line in less than 30 seconds. That's awesome. And so then I'm like on the other side of security, I'm in terminal A and I need to go to terminal E. So I had to get on the train at Atlanta, go from A to E. I get off the train at E1. My gate is E42 on the opposite end of. So that's when I start running. Yeah. Because at this point, boarding stops at 8 40. It was 8 30. And I just, and like when you look at the signs, it's like, oh, a 13-minute walk to your gate. I'm like, oh we don't have that. I gotta get so I'm running. I am like second to third, second or third from the last people admitted on the plane. I was like, at this point, I mean I had curled my hair, I had full face of makeup on, and I had on like the clothes I was gonna be wearing at this thing. I'm dripping sweat. I don't remember the last time I had been sweat other than this morning working in the garage, sweating that much. And if there's one thing, if I'm in like outdoor clothes or clothes that I'm prepared to be sweaty in, I get that different. I'm like, sure, wiping my face on my clothes. When I'm in like, I don't want to say dress clothes, this because I wasn't in dress clothes, but you just know, like, just going out into the world clothes. You got dressed for something. My hair is full on, no curl left, it is big, and I'm just like, I'm dying. Yeah, so then I'm trying to adjust my air to get myself some air because I'm in the middle seat, also. Yes, because I went basic of the basics where I did not pay to choose my seat, so I just took what they gave me. Right in between these two men, but I made it, that's all that matters. I made it on that flight, it did not get delayed. We land, I turned my phone back on, and it says, Your flight has been delayed. Well, we're here, so I'm not sure. No, it didn't. Right. It was really weird. Everything worked out though. It was fine. I snoozed a few a little bit on there because I've been up since 245. I get my rental car. She was like, Oh, it's uh it's a uh brand new, nobody's ever driven. And I'm like, Great. She said, We have three different colors. Which one do you want? I'm like, I don't, I don't really care. Just give me one. I don't care about that. So she gave me this white 2026 Jeep Wrangler. It was beautiful. It's not for me like an everyday vehicle, but it was still, I love a new car smell. I love a big screen that I have, and like you know, it's and it it drove fine. It was like blowing all over the place. So I don't know very aired, I think. Yeah, but driving in Boston, no big deal. Like it was great, better than driving around here. People are way more accommodating and just nice, and they just do their thing. Got back to Atlanta and I really immediately wanted to kill somebody. Horrible. Yeah, well, driving in Atlanta is just a little bit. Oh yeah, here too, though. It's just but oh yeah. So, but I get to the um thing and the line I got there started at 2. I got there at 2 30, and most people in line were there by themselves. Like solo people, but most of them were from around there. Except one person commented on TikTok, he flew in from Florida, so like other people had done that, but I met so there were two people that live in that area who have been on the show before, and hit one was actually a winner, and so they were there meeting people. So I got a picture with one from two summers ago, Kenny. And then when we went through, like they had they had it set up where three people were giving their interviews at one time. I blacked out, not a clue what I said, probably wasn't good. Oh well, it is what it is, it was all worth it to me. It's absolutely I'll do it again, yeah. But I have no idea what I said, truly, honestly. Like we got these numbers and we had to hold it up so they'd see, you know, who was to associate like this video is with B, I was B52. Okay. So I had a microphone, like you're holding a microphone talking to the camera. It was a lot going on. A lot going on because out in front of you, it's the line of people and people just standing back here chit-chatting. So it's like very it's a lot happening. But then the winner from um a few years ago, and he was on the traders recently, he was standing around talking, and so we stood around, had a full conversation with him, asked because he he's from the area. We were talking to him about the show and traders, and just it it was great. And so we took pictures of him. His name is Derek, and he was an undercover cop when he got on the show. Now he has two pod true crime podcasts. Okay. So I just he's one of my favorites of all time. So it was really this. I made friends with a couple people in line that were there by themselves, and they were like, we we all said that made it all worth it, right there. Absolutely. It was so fun though, but I was so exhausted by that point. I had about an hour and a half drive left to get back to my hotel. Stayed in such a cute little area, it would have been great to like get out and walk. Except here in Alabama, it's about 80 degrees. There it's 44. Oh, and I did not dress appropriately, so I was not going out and and about. I ordered, I had not eaten all day. It's just too much happening. I didn't have time to get anything, and so I just ordered food to be delivered to the hotel. It was such a cute hotel, so nice, a great area, like would have been great to get out and walk. But then I woke up at 2 15 the next morning and had to catch another flight. Yes. Got to the airport before security was even open.

SPEAKER_01 9:04

That's okay.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

Uh, and then went straight to work. But yeah, you know I'm so excited that you went and you know, that could be a really daunting task to somebody else, but I mean, like you said, totally worth it to have had the opportunity. Yeah. That's so good. Just to even say I did it. Yeah. And I don't know if I've even said it out loud, but it was for Big Brother. I mean, I said the people were on it, but it was for the upcoming season of Big Brother 28. 28th season will be this summer. So there's so many, I mean, lots of people. And thousands and thousands apply every year. So, you know, it's but anyways. But one of who we hear something. Oh, well, I hope so too. I pray about it daily. Press play again, two roommates, one remote, the rewatch podcast where we dive back into the movies and shows we couldn't stop talking about in college and probably steel camp. We're your hosts, Anna and Megan, two roommates with one remote, ready to laugh, debate, and maybe get a little too nostalgic as we revisit the classics and discover a few new favorites along the way. So grab your popcorn, press play, and hang out with us as we rewind it all, episode by episode, movie by movie. It was a wild week. It's been a while since we recorded. Yeah. Sick last week, or not this past week, like the week before that, and um and then had a bunch of crazy stuff for work. Only thing I've done that's been, I guess, newsworthy was I went to the dark track races last night and got to sit infield. And that was awesome. And where is this? Taldega short track. Okay. And the is that that's like part of the races that are happening this weekend, right? Yeah, the big one that was supposed to have happened tonight, they canceled it because they were anticipating all the rain. And um, I think it's the world of outlaws was supposed to race tonight, and it's a big deal. So um bummed that you know they aren't doing that tonight. But last night was awesome. I had an absolute blast. I've been before and sat in the stands, but getting to sit infield was an absolute game changer. And also getting to sit inside of a truck because the last time I went was around a year ago, and I came home with a sinus infection from hell. Literally. I was I was out sick for like two weeks. I had to have two rounds of antibiotics to kick. Oh my gosh. Like I literally wished I was dead. I it it was terrible. So um I woke up this morning and felt a heck of a lot better than I did the last time that I went. So and two, I appreciated the fact that I didn't go home with the worst headache ever, too, because it's really loud. Yeah, and there's some insulation sitting inside of the car. But the announcer was absolutely the best or the highlight of some of it because he had me cracking up so hard. He was talking about one of the racers that came through two different, like two cards that were sitting like this, and he came up the middle and he was like, He was the baloney, hold the mayonnaise, hold the mustard. He slid right between the two of them. And I just died laughing. At another point, he was talking about somebody's debit card that had been turned in at the office, and he's like, And if you don't pick it up, I'll be headed to the gas station to pick up two cases for the weekend. Anyway, it was just, I mean, seriously, he was he was awesome. Yeah. That's uh that makes it fun. It does, it does, but anyway, it it helps having friends with connections to get you in. Because I got him free too. Oh, that's nice. I saw this morning somebody posted Jason Kelsey, the football player. Um he's here for it this weekend. Yeah. Yeah. He was at Waffle House. I want some Waffle House so bad. Okay, so the synopsis for episode 20. With Dawson and Joey back together, he decides to take her out to a romantic dinner for old time's sake. But also eating out are Mitch and Nicole. On top of that, the restaurant, not realizing that there are two Leary parties, has only one table available, forcing all four of them to sit together, which immediately serves up tension. Also at the restaurant are Jen and Gail, where Dawson, Joey, and Jen attempt to reunite Gail and Mitch after Nicole walks out from the constant arguing. But the pulley only works temporarily. Meanwhile, Andy begins to fall into insanity when she begins changing her hair color from blonde to brown and begins having ghost encounters with her deceased brother Tim, while Pacey and Jack catch on and try to confront her with her mental state. This episode aired on May 12th, 1999. It has a popularity rating of 82 out of 128 and an IMDB user rating of 31 out of 128. That's a pretty big split. It is, and I kind of get it because I like the Andy and Pacy storyline as tough as it is. I like that heaviness because it does give us like some meat to hold on to in this episode. And I'm fine with even like the Dawson of it all and like everything going on with all them. What I did not like about this episode really had nothing to do with characters, storyline, anything. It was, and this is not to disrespect because I clearly don't know anything about what I'm talking about. I didn't like the directing. No, it was a and it wasn't as much when it was around Dawson and at the restaurant and stuff, but at the at the McPhee house, it was so strange. Yes, it was. It was everywhere they were going, it was following, but it wasn't like doing it in a smooth, fluid motion, and then it was like shaky, and it was so weird. And instead of when Pacey's walking down the stairs after he sees the photo album, the instead of the camera being at the bottom watching him as he's coming down, it's behind him running down the stairs with him. It's like that was weird. I didn't like it. It really took me out of the episode. Well, I felt very distracted by, and we know that this show can flip back and forth between storylines, but it was like every three sentences it felt like we were flipping back and forth. Yeah, it wasn't done well either. Yeah, I agree. I mean, give if you're gonna have a scene, give it a moment to just kind of have a fluid situation unfold before you switch gears. Because it just, it's like you don't finish this thought before you move to another and you're having to, you know, redirect. Yeah, and they're not storylines that are close enough related or even on the same heavy level. No, and it that they don't go together. So emotionally it was like a yo-yo. I I'm not gonna lie, I was not a huge fan of this episode. It yeah, I can do without it as a whole, the whole storyline of Andy is the necessary part of it because it leads us to you know the rest. But so it had so I do know, like when I think about the last three episodes of this season, that scene of her in the bathroom and Pacey on the outside of the door, yeah, and her seeing her brother, like it is I know it's coming. It is, it's a big one. But as a whole, yeah, it honestly, if it would have been directed a little bit, like like that scene was so heavy, the whole thing of it. But you know, back in uh episode five, I think it was, when Dawson, it's it's his parents are dealing with everything, and even that in that episode, Pacey helps calm her mom down at the grocery store. That episode was heavy all around, very heavy episode, but because it was directed so well, right, it was a good, very good episode. This one, it was choppy, it was a mess. Well, choppy was gonna be my description for it for sure. I mean, I'm not gonna go as low as we went in some of season one or a year, I guess, because I gave seven trains. No, I didn't go. But I won't go that low, but it's not what it's been this season. No, and I hadn't, I mean, I remembered a lot of the storyline of this episode as it started. I appreciated it opening with everybody in one place, which kind of set a high expectation, I felt like, and then it just kind of because they really were all getting along. Yeah, like there was no tension between Jen and Joey. There, I mean, even her saying, I live here now, so yeah, like it it and I honestly forgot she moved in with them temporarily. I went straight to Jack and I had forgotten what all had happened right before because it's been a couple weeks. Oh yeah, Graham's kicked her out. Well, as soon as she said it, I remembered, so yeah. I mean, yeah, that's a good opening scene as a whole with all of them because we haven't seen other than no, because even at the all-nighter where they were studying, Jack wasn't there. Yeah, no. I mean, other than um when there the mystery of did did this couple sleep together or not in the classroom. That's the first time all six of these people have been really all together, and that wasn't a lighthearted episode. This was a fun friends hanging out, even though Dawson was like, Well, I really just invited Pacey. So then it like spirals from there. It was it was still fun. It was it was like, Yeah, but this, but I did this, and so it kind of like it made it very realistic. Like, we didn't plan this whole group outing, it just happens, but that happens in real life sometimes. It's not like you're planning a full party, sometimes you just invite one friend and then it turns into a whole group hang. And it's fun, it is but I did, I like that part too. Yes, and you know, talking about the um directing and stuff, you know, more of kind of like the inner workings of the episode. The other thing, remember, we talked about was the music in some scenes was so loud you couldn't hear what they were saying. Like those little things might not be a big deal to some people, but it takes away from the overall experience of the episode. Yeah, it was hard to hear what they were saying in the first part of the well, there was episode. There was a couple of scenes, but anyway. Um and but immediately after the opening credits, Andy has dyed her hair. So that's it kind of the while the opening scene was good, it felt out of place. It does the only way it felt like it should be in this episode is because in the very previous episode, Jen gets kicked out of Granda's house. So that's how we know, okay, it really does go here, but it just didn't go with the rest of the episode. Correct. And that's that's part of, I guess, a little more to why I said, yeah, I had high expectations for the episode because I didn't know what was coming before it started, but as it went on, I immediately when I saw her Tim in the hallway. Yeah, yeah. I would very remember to strike me yet, but when I saw Tim in the hallway, I was like, oh, I know where we're headed. Okay, so I'm gonna be completely honest with you. When I first watched this show, however long ago that was, I don't know if because I wouldn't have watched it in '99, so it's not like I was waiting a week at a time. Uh, but whenever it was, I did not know who he was. Like, I didn't know. I didn't either when I watched it for the first time last year. Even her having her nervous breakdown and seeing Abby in the last episode, like I still didn't put it together that this is her brother. I honestly, even though in my mind I was questioning where'd he come from, I still thought she was having some kind of emotional affair with somebody. Maybe she met him in therapy. That was really where my brain was. Right. And I mean, I think they kind of directed in a way to lead you in that mystery. Because he wasn't called Tim. No, correct. And, you know, the way he talks to her makes you almost think that there's some kind of a romantic element involved. Um, and especially too when he first shows up and he's just kind of lurking in the hallway smiling at her. And, you know, just just their exchange of, you know, whatever, facial expressions. It just makes you kind of think, where did he like you said, where did he come from? And when did that happen? So honestly, the first time I ever saw it at your house, whenever it was that we watched it, um, it almost gave me like I can't think of his name, Jen's ex-boyfriend that shows up out of nowhere kind of vibes. Like Billy. Billy, thank you. Yeah, he just shows up in the hallway, you know, leaned up against some lockers. It was like, oh god, if we got another one of those going on. That was my first thought. And then, you know, we find out that it's Tim. Yeah. Andy changing her hair, it was very out of left field. Agreed. And it, I mean, she looks fine, but it the blind looks better on her, we'll be honest. Um, I mean, it it definitely triggers the thought of what is going on, because I mean, we all know. Yeah, some some women just have you know a big event or emotional situation happen and they just go change their hair, and yeah, it really can trigger you to feel like somebody else sometimes. Yeah. And she for her, it's like a comfort thing of like as as Pacey sees later in the photo album three years ago with her brothers. It's like a comfort of being close to Tim and she's seeing him now, which was triggered by Abby dying, and she saw Abby and and her doctor, she goes back to therapy, and her doctor mentions about getting on medication. Yeah, but doesn't she say it like going back on medication? Well, I don't remember how the doctor worded it, but then Andy says, But I thought you said I didn't have to. So so yeah, I mean, which we know she's been on medicine too, so right. But Well, I just you know, one of the thoughts that crossed my mind too was you know, we we just we see them discussing their mom at some point. And you know, we haven't seen her no like ever. And it I've been wondering, especially when we've had scenes at Andy's house, like where is their mom? Well, she says in the beginning of this episode, I'm gonna study tonight and I've got to take care of mom. Right. So, you know, there's the scene where I don't remember what gets broken when she's trying to take the out yes, the lamp. Um, it's like, how does all this transpire? Is their mom in some kind of a mental facility? And and there's some element of that that she's meaning she's gotta go take care of mom because otherwise none of that makes sense to me. No. I mean, unless she is just so knocked out that she's sleeping 24-7 in her bedroom. You know, the last time the dad was there, he had made a comment about getting her mom help. So it would only make sense if she was in a facility. It would only make sense that way. Literally, that's the only thing that I could come up with. Yeah because I mean, even when Jack comes in, yeah, I mean, nothing's been like, there's no way that you've got these teenagers in your house and you've not come through or checked on them just once. And not that she's probably at least we're led to believe that she's not really even in a mental state that she could be responsible necessarily to do that, but uh I don't know, some of that just makes no sense to me. Yeah, there's not really like a connecting thread we're just to assume which that would be the only thing that makes sense. But well, I feel like if we're just too I mean they don't make a mention of where the mom is at all, and I feel like that's a really poor piece to how some of this is written. Yeah, yeah, I agree. I agree. I mean, just make a simple statement that she's off getting help or she is somewhere else, because otherwise it's like I I mean, yeah, now somebody can drive or they're they're old enough to get away. Say instead of I've got to take care of mom, say I need to go visit mom. Yeah, something simple like that, because then we could tie it back to dad came to visit and said he was gonna get her help. So we could kind of piece that together, but yeah, it's just really strange. I agree, I agree. Like I said, poor writing on that part. Yeah. And I don't know, I wish we knew like how much time has truly passed since Abby's thing. Like how long has she been having these ghost encounters? How long has she been seeing people? Right. I would even like to know how long it's been since Graham's kicked. Right, like Jen we need we need some time of how long this has been. I don't think anything was said. No, there's no time stamps in any of this because I've I was deliberately listening. Yeah. Um, because obviously Jen has had enough time that she's living there now, not just she's come over and asked here, or you know, like she's had to go get stuff, like stuff is there, she's living there now. And I mean, we're having to fill in the blanks, in my opinion. Did okay, when her and Gail are sitting on the back seat. That's exactly where I was going. Did they did not say it like did Gail say how long has it been since you've talked to her? I don't remember. I don't either I didn't even clock to me if she did, so it wasn't No, I I don't remember anything specific at that point, but what I was gonna bring up about that scene is we've had enough time that the way that Gail hugs her is a little more to me than just like putting your arm around somebody. I mean, it was like a whole yeah, you know what I mean? Motherly taken care of, yes. So I that was a question I kept thinking this whole episode, too. Yeah. Because also, this is nitpicky. But when we open, they're out at they're at Dawson's house hanging out. Andy has blonde hair. The next scene is at school with her hair changed. So was that the weekend and then her and Pacey didn't see each other? They say it's Friday because when they're hanging out, you Pacey walks up to her with her brown hair and he's trying to ask her to hang out, and he says it's Friday. At school it's Friday, so so they were hanging out maybe on a Thursday night or some night earlier than she do her hair, right? So I mean, you technically speaking, going dark like that, you could just go buy a box off the shelf somewhere at Walmart or a drugstore and go home and do it overnight. I mean, you could. Unfortunately, I have tried that before and it did not turn out that great. So I don't know. That's nitpicky and silly, I guess. But it it just goes right along with like Pacey getting all those phone calls and people for the teacher petition, all that stuff, you know, it just happens overnight. It's just I'm just as guilty of nitpicking, I've already been nitpicking, but this is gonna sound so ugly. I've just come to accept this storyline, or whoever writes some of these storylines does a pretty pitiful job at some things, and it's just how this show goes. Yeah, and I wonder, I'll be interested because even shows I watch now, there's some of that, and it's like that doesn't actually make sense, or why did we not talk about that ever again? Right. So it's not just the time. I do think I do think that they could get away with it, and even now there's shows that come on once a week, it's not all straight to streaming. I do think that there is something about when it's on a network television, you know, channel, they it comes on once a week. People, the difference now is that people still can stream it and still can like catch up on that episode. It's not like back in the day when if you didn't catch it here, you had to either rewind them. You either had to wait for that or you just missed it and you had to watch the next episode and you just didn't know, or there was no watching it in the middle of the week catching up or re-watching it before the new episode. Right, did a DCR at some point. I do think that they could get away with some things more back then that didn't feel like insulting to be like, oh, they're too stupid to figure it out. Or if they're I just really think they either brought in new writers or they didn't there wasn't a solid through line. I don't think it had anything to do with the audience. I think it was just they were kind of like they didn't even pay attention to it, so they're like, they won't notice it either. Wrong because I'm the one who notices things. Well, that's what I'm saying. It's slightly insulting that eh, they won't pick up on it. That's what I'm saying. I take TV too serious to not pick up. Well, correct. And that's what I think. That that kind of stuff bothers me really badly. Yeah, I get it. I get it. Well, I just noted with Andy at school that morning that she is literally unraveling in front of all of us. Like completely unraveling and painfully. He's the erratic. He he he's noticing, he clearly does not know to the full extent yet. But I really just the whole thing when she was at therapy before everything happens at the house, when she's at therapy, yes, could just see it in her eyes, and then when she's in the car and she has a breakdown and she's like screaming, crying and hitting the steering wheel, it was so sad. I mean, every I gratefully have not had to deal with anxiety or mental illness in that way at all. Like obviously I get anxious about things, but it's not to the level of what people really do deal with anxiety or what Andy's dealing with at all. So just like when when the doctor is telling her, we may have to get on medicine, and she's like, You said I didn't have to, and the doctor looks at her and says, Well, what's happening inside of you is not healing itself properly. Right. It was so sad because Andy is just she it I can't imagine somebody saying that to me and me knowing something is not right, right, something is not working. I should not be having these thoughts or seeing people that are not actually here or having full conversations or or being this erratic. She probably knows that she's so flip-floppy back and forth and go and acting a certain way, and just not knowing how to fix it or handle it or make it better. Well, the other thing that I think about when I see this episode is it's more than just seeing somebody because she's having tactile experiences. Think about in the car after therapy where he's supposedly holding her. So what are you doing? Leaning across the console of the car sobbing, you know, and not trying to be insensitive to that sort of thing. But the reason I'm bringing it up is it makes me think about Izzy from Gray's Anatomy when she's beginning to find out that she has brain cancer, and or it's it's the skin cancer melanoma that's spread to her brain. Um, isn't that what it was? I know it was melanoma to begin with, and then it had spread anyway. You know, and she's seeing Denny and all that. And it's a there's a there's a apparently there's a different form of just like you're seeing people just seeing them, but then you start having tactile, you know, experiences and it I don't know. I don't know anything about all that stuff, but it's a different level of you know, whatever. So yeah, it just m it made me really sad. Right. Because I can't imagine how that must feel, like to know like 'cause she knows that it's not normal. Right. I mean she she has to know, which is why she starts trying to deny it in therapy that she's you know seeing No, I I don't think I saw Abby. I don't think I saw her. Yeah. You know, like she starts retracting what she said, and then of course when she gets into the car after therapy and she's sitting there with Brown or Tim, her brother, and he's like, Did you tell her about me? And she's like, No. So it's just I don't know. It's it's odd and it's the brain is a very incredible thing. The power that it has to do different stuff for better or worse. It's I mean, it's crazy. It's hard to comprehend what all your brain is able to do and comprehend. Yeah. But Andy, like, she knows it's not she knows that he's not really there. Because I mean, with when the whole thing with Pacy, like she knows that he's she it's like it's like a war inside of her of like she sees him and she's communicating, she doesn't want him to leave, she doesn't want to choose and say goodbye, but she knows he's actually dead. Like she knows that's the difference I think in her and her mom because the mom really had herself convinced he was upstairs in his room. Right, he was still here, and she's telling other people about him. Well, I think that there's some level again of denying or denial going on in in the midst of the warring in internally because you know she's fully aware of the fact that he isn't real, but she is seeing him and experiencing him, you know, as far as like hugging and stuff. But there's just this I'm trying to find my words, but uh thinking about when uh she's in that bathroom and he's begging her to choose him instead of Pacey. And it that's not the first time that he's told her to choose him over Pacey. Like when she's in the kitchen and Pacey comes downstairs and he's like, Who were you on the phone with? Well, I wasn't on the phone with anybody, and she's getting defensive, but she is somewhere caught between reality and that mental state. Yeah, that I don't know, it it's she does believe that he's there in the fact that she knows that he's not real. Do you follow me at all? In in comparison to the mom who just literally is outside of reality. Yes, she's somewhere caught between the two. Yeah, and I'm sorry, that took me a long time to explain. No, just that's basically what I was trying to say. Yeah, that's the difference in her and her mom. Like they're struggling with essentially the same thing, they can't move on. But Abby, a bit Andy's was triggered by Abby. Like she she obviously has already been dealing with bipolar and these mood swings since she was on medication, but it got triggered because she's been weaning off of her medication and then the death of Abby. Yes, but the the scene with when Jack comes in, Pacey is cleaning up the mess and Jack realizes who she's been talking to. Because he just says, I don't know, somebody named Brown. That's when Jack realizes who it is. And he is walking down at the same time and says, That's my name for Tim. Yes, because she something about she couldn't say his name. So she called him her favorite color, which is brown when she was little. So that's when I the the the reality hits Pacey of what's going on. And I'm not gonna lie to you, I made a note of and I'm again not trying to nitpick her or poke holes, but I feel like in some ways I I love Pacy's role. I am not treading on that at all. Just hear me out. But it's it's a little mature and where's my note that Pacy shows some incredible insight and maturity in the way that he handles this. Not just, you know, trying to be as as compassionate as possible, but even like the scene with her on the other side of the bathroom door, and he's begging her to open the door up and choose him, to come out and choose him, like the way that he tries to like redirect the way that that conversation is going to kind of help pull her out of it. For somebody who has had zero experience that we're aware of with anything like this at 16 years old, I don't know who I know of, at least when I was back at 16, that could have necessarily done that. And at that Jack, who has experienced some of this with his mom has zero. I know, but inside Jack. I think that he just kind of he lives in denial. Right. He he just tries to keep space from the whole thing. Um, again, and I'm not trying to poke holes, but it's like well, but I do think that Bacy didn't start out that way. No, I mean he's gradually gotten here because well, even in just this episode, because when she first goes in that bathroom and closes the door, he's frantic. Right. Banging on the door, get out, come out here, like begging. That's what I meant. Yeah. Yeah, the gradual Well, no, I when he in that scene specifically, when I'm like he changes the way he's talking, yeah, redirects the way he's talking to try to help pull her out. But even his character as a whole, I feel like he's gradually gotten for sure, for sure, to this. And I agree that like how how is he mature enough to do this? He also did it with the mom though at the grocery store in that episode. He was able to redirect and change it. How he has gained these skills, I don't know. But I just won't either. But I guess it's it's necessary, yeah, because otherwise this whole thing flops. Yeah, and that's what I meant by I'm not trying to tread on his I just I guess we just need to attribute it to just his character and who he is. Like this is he is the I know. Kudos to him. I don't know. Yeah. It's just that it just feels like a stretch to me, that's all. In some regard. Yeah. I don't I don't know. I mean we have seen him mature a lot. Yeah. So I know, but but but to do the mental cartwheels that you would have to do to to keep up with the the mental situation that's occurring. It's a lot. And and I feel like even at my age now, it would be hard to not just kind of be like, we need to find you some help and and not be able to go that deep because sometimes people they just get so erratic and irrational that they just but she's already I I don't disagree with you. I that's not what I mean, but when I say but oh no, you're fine. With her, she's already started this erraticness, like coming down the stairs and you think I'm crazy. I'm crazy, and they're trying to be like, we don't think that. So it's like they already know that if they say the wrong thing, it's gonna send her in the opposite direction. So it may be a combination of all these little things. I still agree it is a it's asking a lot of one of the main things that and I'm something you just said triggered or made me remember when he starts telling her that it's not fair, that he can see me, but I can't see him. So I need you to tell me what he's saying. That's one of the lines or the the main parts of that situation that makes me think like, how do you at 16 think of that? That's that's my main thing. And I'm I'm not mad about it. It's it's really good. And and that that would be, I mean, that's that's what I'm getting at when he starts redirecting the conversation in a way to try to help pull her out of it, to not make her feel like she's alienated and crazy. Like, no, we don't think you're crazy. We know you see it, we believe you. It's just not fair that he can see me and I can't see him. Like that, that's that's basically the point of the maturity and and all that. That I'm like, it's necessary, I love it, it needs it, but I'm like, how do you get there at 16 and you have no previous serious previous experience? Can you say at the end of that when she's like, No, I don't want to choose, she's telling Times, and Pacy's like, no, you need to. Yes. Because me, I would be like, No, it's okay. We don't have to, we don't have to choose. We discuss this. Like, that would be kind of me, like trying to diffuse it in a different way. But he was like, No, you need to. Right. You need to. There's a part of me that feels like this kind of the way he's handling this feels almost like he would need to have been told by a doctor or a therapist or somebody how to navigate some of this. That's what I'm getting at. Yeah. And we clearly know that he has not been to therapy with her, so nobody has told him to do this. Right. And again, I feel bad for harping on it, but it just goes back to some of the things about this show that that kind of irk me slightly. Well, I get it. Anyway, I appreciate it. Like I said, it's necessary. It makes for the whole episode, but yeah, um, no, when he starts telling her it it's not fair that he can see me and I can't see him. I need you to tell me what he's saying. I mean, that's basically his way of unlocking the door to her head to figure out what's going on up there. For sure. Yeah. It was big. And then he's starts begging her, yeah, choose me. I thought, well, there we go, Mary to Grey. Oh I know. I think it every time. I think about it every time. I love that scene with Mare. Um But it was like he starts to he starts to break down right there. Like he starts up and could you not because there's no guarantee that she's gonna listen. Well there's no guarantee she's gonna make it out of the situ like this mental situation that she's in at this time because we know that the mom hasn't um you know and then when they do get her out and you know Jack is saying that he needs to call his dad and get her help yeah Pacey doesn't want to admit it either but then when Jack finally says when he makes him realize no this is exactly what we've already dealt with with her and we did not get her help when she needed it because Pacey's like maybe just time Jack's like no that actually hurts it worse. Right he makes them comment that her their mom I'm trying to remember exactly how he said it but I'll probably butcher it um that her grief was so overwhelming that she wasn't able to experience it or feel it with other people therefore her subconscious had to create someone for her to experience it with or share it with. Yes I mean I cannot imagine I don't know well that is that would be so hard also when as a parent when you are grieving something so heavy your other kids are grieving it too and it's like how do you help them through their grief while still also dealing with yours and that's what she couldn't do. Okay. She could not do it and I can't imagine I I I really can't I can't either because you almost have to like put yours to the side for a little bit to help them through some of it and then pick yours up by yourself. And unless you have a partner who is helping you and clearly the dad the dad did not do that properly and so out of sight out of mind for him but this when Pacy finally accepts at the end of that scene and he says call your dad and he knows I mean I think he knows deep down that that probably means she's going to be leaving for some period of time. I mean because the mom well we don't know let's not get back in that because we don't know where the mom is no but the dad has already he doesn't live there so if now we're asking for the dad to help this is his child I mean we we can't just assume he's gonna leave her in Capeside to get help. I mean the right thing to do would be the parent to take her with him to help her. Right. So I don't know if Pacey's been already thinking about that or not but he's showing maturity in other ways so why wouldn't he be thinking this already? But when he when she rolls over and at the end of of this whole thing and she he's just watching her sleep and she says that she's scared and she doesn't want to lose him. And she's asking what's gonna happen to me. Sad because it's not just about what's gonna happen like about where I'm gonna get help and how this is gonna it's like literally what is gonna happen to me. Because she sees what's happening to her mom. Right but it it has to be scary to know that you're mentally not in a stable place and you're experiencing things that are not normal and people don't understand and because it's not normal you don't know it very many people I mean clearly we know the mom hasn't been able to recover from this at this time so it's like where where do I like what where am I gonna end up it just and for whatever reason she didn't like being on medicine because that's why she stopped taking it to begin with. Right. So it's like now she's gonna have to get back on license I feel like the therapist was talking about like something that would be a different type of medication. Right. But you know several episodes before she stopped taking her medicine. Correct. So why? Because either the therapist tried to wean her off and that we didn't see that those conversations or Andy just didn't like being on it. Well sometimes it can make you feel different right that's what I mean like was that doing that to her right that's why she did so now having to be presented with the fact that you're probably gonna have to get back on medicine. What and I doubt it's gonna be just some Xanahex like I I feel like that's gonna be another level of something. Yeah and but he he says she says that she loves him and he says she's never gonna lose him not now or ever he loves her too and he real Pasey means it yeah he does he is not one to abandon anybody I know gotta love him so now the other side of this episode you know what Dawson fine yeah Joey there was one moment where I wanted to slap her Jen fine Gail gorgeous yes Mitch and Nicole disgusting I have written ick so many times in here because of some of the things that either Mitch said or did or just so it is Dawson and Joey's one month anniversary. How cute and she wants to do something and he he's making it out that no let's just you know watch movie or whatever he says and she's like that's boring I'm gonna do he's like no we're boring people the whole time he's really got this plan he's made reservations and I did like the reveal of that to her where he's like we're people who make reservations two weeks out at this restaurant for you know for a special occasion and she's like yeah that was a good reveal I thought on his part because at first I forgot I knew that they ended up at the restaurant I forgot that it was a surprise and all this so when he was like we're boring and trite people I was like what yes I get it now it was it was anyways so they get they go to this restaurant in downtown Cape Side Wilmington and when they walk in they don't have a table well the hostess says that he was not aware that there were two Leary reservations. Which when someone calls in to make a reservation and you realize that there's another one with that name you need to clarify. Right but it so what it made me think is that maybe when let's say that Dawson made it two weeks ago if Mitch had called any time within that two weeks to get a reservation or if he showed up and just said you know like hey like I don't know but basically my thing was I took it as there was probably a mix up that somebody was just told oh yeah we've already got a reservation for you basically does that make sense like yeah where Dawson had already made it it got and Mitch is just that he's like oh great because they just read my mind that I need a reservation. Yeah that's basically how I took that yeah and with Nicole I can't stand her I really can't stand her pretentious behavior even like at the table when they were all sitting there together and she's like well first of all this came out of nowhere where she's like your dad says was telling me about your summer plans you're you might do an internship in Hollywood what? Yeah where'd that come from don't know and I wanted to really be like that is just like a dad like Dawson has probably just it's just probably because of he wants to be a filmmaker and the dad immediately goes oh he's going to Hollywood this year like that is just like a clueless dad like not all dads are like that I'm not gender line I'm just clueless dad yes yes and because I I really wanted Dawson to call her out or call Mitch out and be like what? Right. Well when did I say that but didn't so maybe we missed that. But then he does other things that I appreciated in love. Yes Joey too well me too but I wanted to I did not agree with Joey when she calls him to the side and says oh yeah no you know why are you acting like that I wanted Joey without the whole setup thing to be like leave him alone right well I mean I I made a note so much for a romantic dinner or evening because everyone ends up at this teeny tiny table because the the I just had written that you know they mixed up the reservations and anyway the other thing that was cracking me up was instead of phenomenal persnickety was the theme word of this episode. Yeah Dawson says it to Joey and then Joey says it to Nicole yes yeah but um the uh Gail and Jen end up there because she burns the pot roast that she is cooking for her and Jen. And I'm just thinking to myself if I was cooking it burned or something messed up I am not getting that fancy in my little black dress and going to the French bistro I'm going down to the McDonald's and the thing is if you had to have a reservation right how maybe you don't have to and it's just recommended but at that time the way that Dawson talked about how fancy this place is and the fact he says he had to get reservations to they didn't have another table for Dawson and Joey but Gail and Jen could get this again I don't know. This episode I I know so but anyway Gail and Jen walk in uh everybody's noticed um Gail and Nicole run into each other in the bathroom and I just really want Gail to slap her. I really do I know I want her to because she's when Gail is like um I was just gonna ignore you watch that I was contemplating just ignoring you. And then she says well I guess I'm just gonna leave and she says that would probably be best for Mitch oh I the audacity don't tell me what my husband of 13 plus years was best for him. Ex-husband there they ain't signed it yet because he says in this episode all this all that's left is sign and signature that's right that's right well it doesn't matter I agree don't don't tell me that I need to go and and you're just like whatever flavor of the week now I just can't gross Mitch just likes to have a female in front of him. Yeah it's disgusting it is because he's talking when they when the kids have to set this up parent trap esque as Gail says that they turn on their Mitch and Gail song so that it will dri bring them together or Jen has a bottle of wine sent over that's special to them. And you know he immediately clocks it and looks over at her and smiles and to find out that it's actually Jen who sent it then makes me realize that she didn't even know that's why he was smiling at her when she looked or when he looked over but yeah I mean I I thought some of that was very sweet but then you know the conversation turns to how she's gonna be leaving and how Dawson may take that. But it's really about him. It's really about me I know I know it just be an adult and say I don't want you to go. Yeah well I mean I I like when he says that wouldn't be fair to you to say that okay but then say you he is a sub at the school just he should say I'll go with you or something you know like I know I guess it can't it's not always that simple especially when you're on the verge of divorce because of but you know what you hadn't signed the papers yet you still want to be together. Yeah he I know and the but she she knows exactly what those kids are doing because when they start dancing you might have been looking down when they start dancing and he says thanks for the bottle of wine and she says bottle of wine that's what I was getting at. Yeah because she looks up at the bar over his shoulder and sees them. I don't know if you had seen that one and Jen smiles at her and she smiles back because she realizes what's happening. Yes she plenty that's what I was getting at. Okay yeah yeah yeah yeah so I that whole conversation though she took that as I'm gonna stay because I'm gonna fight for this and I want to be with him. Well of course but then she sees them canoodling right but before we go there I did I did appreciate you know when they're all still at the table and um basically Nicole has told Dawson that there's other things he can do besides creative roles in filming and you know it it finally gets turned around to you know Dawson has repeatedly fired back Joey has inserted herself it seems like Nicole keeps basically instead of eating French food she is inserting her foot in her mouth all night for all the things that she harped and was so critical about for his film and you know Mitch finally st like he finally throws his two cents in about how you know like you're supposed to be this film teacher and help basically cultivate their aspirations to want to achieve these dreams and she's just shooting everything down left and right. Yes I can't stand I can't either but then he gets up and goes and dances with Gail to come back to an awkwardly silent table. And then my comment to you was when we see them canoodling on the dock you know and and Gail and Jen see it well they sure made up real fast because I mean she didn't act like she had a care in the world that it just it it's weird. I can't and after he was doing he was dancing with her close and he's all but saying he doesn't want her to go and now here he is just Yes that's what I mean he just a female in front of him he don't care. No he's just a weak man. Yeah I don't know and we end with Dawson and Joey Kenudman in the rowboat. I could have done without all that I could have too and that's where I wrote a bunch of ick but what I did like but what I liked about what she said was he says the night is still young and she says so are we yes I liked that. I did too and he he he does keep saying stuff but he respects it in that moment of like okay yeah and then he continues but yeah whatever he doesn't push anymore I guess. No I don't know. Overall I mean it wasn't I it's like the two storylines separate I'll they were fine. They didn't go together in the same episode though. No not at all so if you had to give it a rating what would you I'm giving it a five okay I thought about a four but I appreciated the opening scene enough and then a couple of the kind of humorous comments here and there but overall there was not a whole lot of comedic comedic relief or yeah no I'll do that too I'll say five honestly because it's just kind of yes I do always think about the pacey sitting on the other side of the door trying to talk her down I think about that. That's the only reason why it's getting a five right and that's why I kind of when it comes to my MVP I could go one of two ways one would be like Pacey and how he handled everything. That's the easy answer. Or Dawson, Jen and Joey really Jen and Joey and the their little plot at the restaurant and Dawson really has not no idea what's happening. Well that was actually my MVP really I like that because it was I do like it when Jen and Joey are friendly to each other. We are on the same page on this episode because I think I'm gonna you know Pacey deserves it but he deserves it every episode just about so if there's something else I'm gonna give it to them and because he's never lacking. Well I I ended up choosing that because I I made a note even considering Joey and Dawson at dinner and them and then standing up for Dawson. Like Dawson standing up for himself against Nicole's comments and all that but I appreciated it just was one of the only lighthearted moments in this episode of setting this up for Gail and Mitch to end up having that dance. So yeah yeah um okay so there's a goof that I mean there's plenty that we've pointed out but here's one too. When the gang is all in Dawson's room talking Jack says something about when we all started the school year. Mm-hmm the school year started at the beginning of season one and continued into season two Jack and Andy weren't there at the beginning of the school year. They started at Cape Side mid year at the beginning of season two. Yeah again some people did not do a good job with writing and movies mentioned the only the only one I remember hearing was parent trap because she refers to that Gil does but I feel like there was another one but I online I don't remember hearing anything about this but St. Elmo's Fire was talked about. But I don't even know what that is. I never seen it but Roblo um is in it. It's it's old but I don't remember when they would have said that because that because in the beginning when they're all in Dawson's room they're talking about Beverly Hills 9210 which is a TV show but I don't the only one I clocked in my brain was Parent Trap. And that one wasn't even listed so I don't know weird that is weird. Do you want to um spin a wheel? Sure most dramatic character oh overall well actually if we did overall it would be Dawson no doubt. So let's just do this episode most dramatic in this episode maybe Nicole okay for acting like his film is crap but then you know like he calls her out for saying you know that you're dating my dad you're trying to that's so true. Yeah I agree um does it mean to say anything I thought about it but I feel like it might be a little insensitive to the situation I mean you're free to say it I'm gonna go with Tim then too dramatic excuse me. I'm dead so like are you saying bring her to the dark side like I don't okay Tim Tim is my most dramatic in this episode. Okay or or Jack when she finally comes out of the bathroom and he's like he doesn't know what to do with himself he's like turning away literally yes I made a note of that in my head it was awkward yes so maybe Jack in that scene specifically because he doesn't know what to do with his hands because he like touches or his body and he pulls away and then he leans into the wall. Yeah yeah okay okay all right and that's a wrap on today's episode if you loved hanging out with us make sure you like and subscribe on YouTube where you can watch this full video and follow us on Spotify so you never miss a rewatch. You can also find us on Instagram and TikTok for clips, behind the scenes moments and all the nostalgia your heart can handle can handle. Leave us a comment to rate the show share the episode with a fellow Roomie because it truly helps more than you know and we love hearing from you. We'll be back every Tuesday and Thursday with more laughs and more nostalgia and of course more rewatches. Until then keep the remote closed the memories closer and always be kind rewind and oh I skipped right over it rewind rewind and press play again by room I swear I'm more out of it than I thought I would roll the credits press play again two roommates one remote is fully DIY editing us producing also a recording yep still us posting it everywhere shockingly us again two roommates one remote zero team so please clock accordingly thank you very much