Were They Ever Really Endgame? (Dawson’s Creek 2x22)

The Season 2 finale delivers everything Capeside has been building toward—big emotions, bigger decisions, and the kind of moments that change everything.

In this episode, we break down where everyone lands after a season full of tension, growth, and messy honesty. Dawson is once again caught between what he wants and what reality looks like, Joey is forced to confront what moving forward actually means for her, and the shifting dynamics between the group finally come into full focus.

We also talk about how Pacey and Andie’s storyline leaves a lasting impact, the continued strength of Jen and Jack’s friendship, and why this finale feels like both an ending and a clear setup for what’s coming next. On a rewatch, it’s impossible not to notice how much has changed since the beginning of the season—and how nothing is quite as simple as it once was.

This is the episode where choices are made, feelings are fully realized, and the groundwork for the future is officially set.

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Season two of Dawson’s Creek comes to a close with higher stakes, deeper emotions, and relationships that will never quite be the same.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:16

Press play again. Two roommates, one remote, the rewatch podcast where we dive back into the shows and movies we couldn't stop talking about in college and probably still can. We're your host, Anna and Megan. Two roommates with one remote, ready to laugh, debate, and maybe get a little too nostalgic as we revisit the classics and discover a few new favorites along the way. So grab your popcorn, press play, and hang out with us as we rewind it off episode by episode. I don't know how we got to this one. I don't know. I mean, oh man. We might have differing thoughts on it. I don't know. Put it in one word how you felt after this one. Oh I don't know. I mean, I was sad. Yeah. But in some ways I feel unsettled. Unset okay. Well, season finale. Sometimes it sometimes they do that. Right, but it's not like a cliffhanger or yeah, like I'm excited. Not in a traditional sense of a cliffhanger, right? It it had its own weight. I don't necessarily want to call it heavy, but it was not uplifting. No, it wasn't, but there's something about like even when it's got its own heaviness, there's something about when it is full of drama that draws me in. And I'm just like on the edge of my seat. Like, there was a moment in that episode where I just was like, I am in this. Like, and I've seen it, but I was in it. It I don't know. I think I honestly I liked the episode. I'll get into it more, but I think it's because we are right there on the verge of season three, and it is my favorite season by far. So I think I'm just like itching for what's coming in a lot of areas, not just in one particular storyline. So I'm just I I I was sad though. I mean, I was tearing up through a lot of this episode. Yeah, there is a lot of moving parts, literally and emotionally. Um, I I don't know that I would be like, I really liked this episode if I'm being truthful. I mean, yes, there was drama, but I almost feel bad saying it wasn't like it just sucked me in. I I mean, I I told you when we finished it, I remembered a lot of what happened, what was coming. I forgot how it ended, but I knew what the end result was gonna be. Um Well, why don't we read the synopsis? Yeah. Okay, the synopsis for episode 22. Dawson's suspicions about Mike Potter become confirmed when he sees him selling drugs again and is torn on whether or not to tell Joey or leave things as they are. But Pacey's grumpy and misanthropic father, Sheriff Whitter, is already suspicious and has the ice house staked out, hoping to catch Mike Potter in the act, in which the restaurant is set on fire by Mr. Potter's competitors. Meanwhile, Gil tells Mitch that she has decided to take the job offer in Philadelphia and wants to leave as soon as possible with Dawson. No, I don't remember that. That's not right. Yeah. She wants she's gonna leave, but it's not with Dawson. No. Pacey becomes more depressed as his school grades start slipping now that Andy is gone from his life and his his domineering father verbally bullies him. Also, Jen becomes more and more depressed over Abby's death. We've all forgotten Abby, okay? Yeah. In which Jack wonders if she is suicidal. Eventually, Graham's asked Jen to come back to live with her, and Jack is welcome to live with him too. Okay, that's glossing over that. That this episode aired on May 26, 1999. It has a popularity rating of 76 out of 128. And then IMDB used a rating of 19 out of 128. Wow. Yes, such a large gap there. Um, and it is the season two finale, so that is that is really exciting, actually. But I okay. So this episode, there was a lot happening. A lot. I mean, like, and a lot of big stuff happening, you know, a lot of times big stuff happens at the end and the episode ends. This was like beginning, middle, the end was a little bit quieter and slower and softer. It would it was just a lot happening in this episode. What I will say, and what takes a point or two away from my rating is because it still felt a little choppy in moving to the next scene or like back and forth. It didn't feel very fluid. Um, the storylines were s were good, it just felt choppy in the way it was edited, I think. So that takes away a little bit for me. It does. All of the storylines I thought were fine. There wasn't a bad storyline. No. What I will say in the beginning, let's talk about Jen and Jack. Because what I do think is that her storyline was not serviced enough. Agreed. Teen Suicide could have had much more, obviously could have had much more. I really feel like they should have already started planting this storyline before this episode. Agreed. Like when Abby actually did die. Yeah. And that could have really triggered some things in her because her friend dies, she witnessed it, she tried to save her, then she has a meltdown at the funeral, she lashes out on everybody, her grandmother kicks her out, then her parents say she doesn't like all of these things. This could have already been a storyline that we are seeing her deal with, and some finally somebody, as in Jack, is the one who's noticing instead of just all of a sudden this episode it's being brought up. Well, I mean, I kind of had noticed a little bit of a trend and a vibe about her that that would cause concern, but we only get like the tiniest little bit of an afterthought about Jen and anything leading up to this. And even this still feels like an afterthought. As well as they did the whole mental illness storyline. Yes. Teen suicide could have really been handled. Well, and I might not should say this. What? But I feel like they have hard almost too harsh or too hard on mental illness than they honestly I feel like they could have taken a tiny bit out of that and plugged in some more of the that train of thought with Jen and done well. And it wouldn't have needed much. And I honestly don't remember if there is like another character that we deal with suicide with later. Oh, I I would have no idea. But I know I tried to think about it in that episode, and I really don't remember. Like that's something that really could have been a relevant thing. Um, anyways, I just thought this was underwhelming. Very um, but Jen is just making little comments here and there about teen suicide. She's writing a paper on it, and then she is making more comments about um she won't be here. She won't be here. And then when the fire happens at the ice house, she just is staring at it with the thought of not moving. It wasn't because she tells Jack later, it's not that she wants to necessarily kill herself, it's just she did not care enough to remove herself from it, and that's what we see in the fire. It wasn't like she was just gonna go jump headfirst into it. No, it was just like I don't want to move. This is happening to me and I'm not gonna stop it. Or this could happen to me and and I'm not gonna get out of the way. Yeah, it so the whole when and I kind of felt like Jack was a little bit harsh with her in some instances. A little. I mean, if you really think your friend is contemplating killing themselves, are you really gonna be like, why are you saying it's just like two there's I think there's just a different way to go about it. Well, I think there's a difference also between the mental state of like and I may say this wrong, but like seeking out suicide versus passively not making an effort not to die. Does that make sense? Like you're saying, she wasn't gonna just throw herself into the fire. Yeah, she was basically gonna just accept that that was her fate if that's what happened, versus throwing herself into the fire. There's there's kind of two camps, in in at least in my opinion, of how you can kind of be contemplating some of those dangerous thoughts. Um or even just feelings. But I feel like in Jen's case, I didn't feel like I mean, yes, some of what Jack said was a little too strong, but I didn't feel like it was so strong that it would have pushed her over the edge because I don't think she's seeking it out. Correct. Um I think he's just trying to kind of shake her and wake her up in in a sense that may not necessarily land the way that it should, but yeah. I mean when they when he sh so when they're at the ice house after Graham's has already come to the school to ask her to move back home. Well, I'm going all over the place. Jen's hair looks good. There was one scene where it showed the back, and I was like, okay, we're on the verge of mull it in the back, but the front looks great. Yeah. Like the way it's framing her face and the color of it, right? It really looks good. It does. But she looked so much too old, in my opinion, when she goes to Graham's house and she's wearing that half suit looking outfit. It's like, okay, yeah, I didn't like that full-grown businesswoman. It was that was weird with the collar. Yes. And it was almost like there was a slick back vibe to the hair. Right. I mean, she looked like somebody's working mom. Yeah. I mean, can I be a little too truthful? My mom used to have a very similar hairstyle to that, and she worked at the bank. And I mean, that that was the vibe I was getting. 90s of my mama working at the bank. Yeah. And Homegirl is still in high school. Yeah. Not even a junior in high school. I know. Yeah. Um, but again, we shouldn't be surprised by the way that they dress and make some of these people look, or who they choose to act out a part of whatever age they're supposed to be playing. But she grands.

unknown 11:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:32

Not getting too far into why she showed up at school. Like Oh, I know. You know where she's living. She's also been right next door for how long and you haven't tried to do this? Yeah, but she's not there now. Right, but it's not been that long since she No, but she wouldn't have known where she was staying. She acts like she knew whenever um Jenna's talking about Jack is used to this, and and she was like, Yeah, or she she says, Um, Jack is showing me how to do this, and she says, Yes, but Jack is used to this. Like she kind of acts like she knows, she's not shocked, she doesn't have a shocked expression that she's not at the Leary's house anymore. I I guess I just didn't pick up on that. I was just thinking that like I thought the context was that you know he's just kind of used to fending for himself and stuff, not so much that that's what I'm saying. Okay, so even if she even if she did not know that she moved out of Gail and Dawson's house, why not go over there? To Jack's house? No, to the Leary house. Oh no, right. Yeah, I don't know. Why don't you show up at school? I don't know. Um, I mean filling in blanks for this show, like we usually have to do, who's not to say that she didn't go next door and Gail didn't tell her I don't know where she is. And Oh my gosh, that would be But I mean, hey, parental supervision is not this show's strong suit, okay? Yeah, but okay, so she says You know that's kind of a a play on the name of this episode, parental. She tells her she's not discussing this with her here. That she's late for class. Yes. And that just that's the end of that. But at the ice house, when Jack is asking her, like, why why not just hear her out? Why not talk about this? And Jen immediately jumps to you don't want me to live with you anymore. And it turns into this whole thing, and he even in that, he's like, Well, my dad's gonna sell the house. We can't stay there forever, we're both gonna be homeless. And it's like, but you just you literally just invited her to come stay with you. I know. Why are we it is he already thinking through, like, if you she might let me also move in there? Like, I don't think he's that calculated, so I wouldn't think that's his thought. I mean, I guess that in my head, he was just giving her a temporary place. Yeah, but temporary isn't I'm meaning shorter than that. I'm saying, like, just somewhere to like literally lay your head down right now while you have nowhere that you feel like you can be. Immediate need, temporary. Because he says when he's asking her, he's like, I have plenty of rooms and need a roommate. I I just feel like that could have been teenage speak for I just feel like it could have just been his way of being like, you can just come stay with me. But I mean, looking at this long term, they're about to go into the summer and everything for summer break, so I don't know. I I guess that I just hadn't thought that far into any of that because there's not been much to that storyline. No. And truthfully, I think that it was a pretty pitiful, like literal afterthought in just throwing grams in there to come and confront her or meet her before school that day, just so that it's not totally out of left field when she goes back. But when she does go back, that I cried. I was crying. It was such a good conversation because she says I have three conditions, and she the first one is that um we have to talk about why I really left. Well, you really left because she kicked you out. They kept making it like Jen chose to leave because Grams did things made her mad. Yeah. Grams literally kicked you out because of your behavior. But it could it could still go either way, like really talking about why it got to that point. Right, and there are differences in beliefs. That's yes, that's what I took it as so that was the second condition of no judgment. I need support and understanding and no judgment. And the third, uh, well, and that she she just needs a family. She when she says, because this was such a good clarification, when she says, I'm actually pretty strong. I've been through a lot, and I can I can do a lot more than you probably think I can to take care of myself. I want to live here with you. I don't need it, I want it because I want a family. Correct. Such a good clarification. It is so good. That's when I really start crying. And then when she says the third one is Jack, and the way he's just sitting down there, it just was so sad because he just needs a family too. He looks like a little lost puppy waiting to find out if he can. He needs family too. He needs someone, he doesn't want to be alone anymore either. So sweet. It was, and you know, I had already thought about it. You know, they have an extra room that was her grandfather's that, you know, she's like, Well, I haven't been able to clean out your grandfather's room yet, or I've been needing to, so this is the best. It's I this is the best thing for Grams. It really is. This turns into the literal best storyline we could have ever had with Grams. Anyways, put a bow on them. We're done with their storyline. I I mean I know we can only do so much in one episode, and the meat of this was really Joey and her dad. But still, I just feel like we could have serviced Jen a little better. But it's kind of been that way for a while now. She's kind of had the It's kind of oh, this is so bad. It's kind of a twisted callback, in my opinion, to how she felt so like outside of the group so many times during season one and parts of season two that she has just felt so left out. I mean, I'm sorry, but the writers have done that to you too, girlfriend. Oh, for sure. For sure. So we start this whole episode though, which with Joey and Dawson talking about unrequited love and love stories, and she says, I prefer sad stories, they're more powerful. Correct. And really, this fits her personality, I guess. I will say it it does show the difference in the two characters for sure. But it's like, okay, but then when you're actually presented with an actual sad story that you're living, you don't prefer that. No, but you know, Dawson makes it a point to ask her if that has an impact on her love life or just you know, her life and stuff like that, and she says yes, that she believes it does, but that that's what makes it true love is if it lasts. And I don't know, that that's not necessarily my philosophy on love or life. I'm not looking for the sad stuff to basically solidify or prove whether something is or isn't good or true. Um and and that perspective can really hurt you down the road. So I hope that changes for her. It does, I'm sure. Um, okay, so Dawson is still dealing with seeing her dad dealing cocaine. My gosh. I mean, we have just jumped straight from marijuana to cocaine, like the big dog. Like, whoa. So And especially at that time too. Yes. Oh yeah. So I feel for Dawson because he's constantly in the middle of stuff. We we just know, and not even by choice, it's not like he is searching out drama to be a part of, he just happens to get in the middle of it, whether it was his parents, the stuff with Jen and Joey, like it's just uh Tamara and Pacey, but all of the things, and now this because he accidentally sees it, and so he's having his father-son advice time with his mom and asking, like what he should do in certain situations. And Dawson is a very black and white person now. Normally we talk about that in a negative connotation with him. There are some situations that are black and white situations, and dealing drugs, it's a black and white situation. Yeah, you know, there is no gray for me in that area. I'm sorry, like I'm I understand that your intentions behind why you're selling drugs may not be like horrible criminal intent. Like you're you are doing it to support your family, but it's still bad. Yeah, it's still wrong. I'm sorry, there's other illegal things that you could be doing that aren't that bad if you had to do it, okay? Just not advocating for it or condoning. But even Joey in this episode, she says exactly what we've been saying through this whole show. You live in a black and white fantasy world. It does. And she says, I live in gray areas, and that's why what made me fall in love with you, but that's what's pulling us apart right now. Okay. Again, he's dealing drugs, and you all could have died. So I feel like from Joey's perspective, though, she's just looking at this like she is trying to preserve the fact that her dad is back home for sure, and they've got a a more structured family union, and their financial situation is not as strained as it had been. And even though that's bad and it's wrong, I feel like she's making concessions for it and trying to help protect her dad. Like, for example, when she walks in to the conversation with Mr. Witter and Sheriff or Sheriff Whitter and Mr. Potter trying to kind of, you know, cut off that conversation. Um, it it's kind of that. Family dynamic of I'll do anything to protect you kind of a deal. But I think that that stems from she just so desperately wants to have a real family um and and not lose her dad back to prison. Yeah. Well, I really appreciate that this has been a through storyline of her dad dealing drugs. He actually was in prison. We saw that and then he came. It wasn't just in this episode. Here her dad just appears and now he's selling drugs dealing. Yeah, no. I'm glad we got the full backstory because you know, shows sometimes old shows, they can just like episode of the week, here's the drama. And and Dawson's Creek can do that, but I like that this one actually had a full-through storyline that we are actually seeing through. Well, that that's one of the things that they've done. Yes. Yes. They could stand to do that on a few others, but that's okay. Dawson is really battling with whether he should tell Joey or not, but then when it comes down to it, there's no way around he has to he has to say something because the competitors in the drug trade world have now thrown a Molotov Goddamn into the window of the bar. And the kids are all there studying for their finals, and Pacey's outside fighting with his dad, and it's going up in flames. Well, the kids run directly to the flames because Joey knows that her dad is back there. And Dawson, superhero of the episode, single-handedly putting out the fire, getting people out. It's like, what? This doesn't suit his personality, but I'm okay with it. I mean, good for him. If like I said in the last or with the last episode. The construction. If he could have been a little more of a handyman and more like he was this time, and I mean, not just putting the fire out, I mean smashing the window, grabbing a jacket, knocking the glass out so Mr. Potter can get through, that makes him look more attractive. Yeah. Oh yeah. The rest, he's just too, I don't know. Wimpy. Wimpy's not quite the right word for it. And I mean, like, just uh I'm not gonna say that either. I don't we'll move on. I just that side of if if that could have been the direction that his character went, I think he would have been a little bit more likable. I think I could have tolerated some of his over-the-top word vomit and everything else he's known for. If those characteristics had been there already. Yeah. Well, can I be completely honest? This this really has nothing to do with the episode, and yet my Pacey loving brain was just watching him through the whole fire scene.

unknown 24:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:59

Because he literally picks Joey up from mine and carries her out. Then when they're standing outside, he's rubbing her arm to comfort her and also to keep her from running back inside. Right. And he was defending her dad through this. Like when he is having his fight with his dad, and he looks at him and says, even if he is doing illegal stuff again, yeah, he's still a better father father than you. Exactly. Like, I I thought that was good to acknowledge, like, not all the kids are living in denial of like, no, he's completely changed. He's just it was like, even if he is, he's still bet a more of a man than you.

SPEAKER_00 25:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:36

Which really, with these two dynamics of parents here, and even like Grant, I mean, we could compare all of the parental figures in this show, and like how yes, Gail and Mitch, they start out as like in in the show, they start out as the typical family that's like would do anything for their son, they listen to him. They it's it's almost like there's a bit of like the gentle parenting, uh, so to speak. I mean, he is a teenager, so they they're able to do more of that. He's an only child. Then you've got Graham, who is your grandmother who's raising her granddaughter. We've got Mike Potter, who is trying to do anything to make up all the time and the regrets that he's had. And you've got John Whitter, who, in his own mind, he is the one who's got it all together because he has a stable job. He's raising his family, he's a he's a civil servant, and he's, you know, he's but you can look like you have it all together and actually be the worst of the worst.

SPEAKER_00 26:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:34

Because the way that you treat your family, or even just one kid versus the other kids, and this is what we see with him, he is horrible to Pacey. And in public or in front of people, yes, horrible. And then to just even throw out the insensitive comments about Andy. I mean, you could tell even in the car when he's dropping him off at school, the moment that his dad even brings up her her at all, her name, anything, Pacey's whole body language just like his body. He's so demanded. Yeah. Oh, it's horrible. He is ready to fight immediately. And and number one, that's just because of who his dad is. Number two, he hasn't heard from Andy yet, so he's carrying that. Number three, he's just mad because she's not there anymore. Like it's all the right. But when his his dad says uh you're throwing your life away all for a girl with a few loose screws. You could not actually think that he was not gonna check you. And furthermore, after he's already hit Pace. Yes. I mean, it took some restraint and self-control to not rear back and hit him then. I'm sorry, Mr. Whitter, you had it coming. Deserved it, yeah. For sure. He definitely deserved it. Um Pacey, though, I think he looked his best in this episode. I think the hair, the clothes, he just looks his best. I like a little scowl sometimes too. I love him so much. Okay. But um the scene with him and his dad at the end of the river walk. I was tearing up for doing that one too. Yeah. Um I know that he basically I've I'd forgotten about Andy calling him, his dad, and speaking to him and telling Mr. Witter about Pacey's story that further underscores what a pitiful excuse of a father he is that he doesn't even know anything about his son. But at the same time, I could see where at least with the impression that we've been given of how involved or the lack thereof that Mr. Witter is in Pacey's life, he wouldn't know those things. So we know that Pacey doesn't talk to him that much. He wouldn't have any opportunity to learn this. So thank you, Andy, for that. Um, but it it also pained my heart a little bit that she took the time to call Mr. Witter, but she hasn't contacted Pacey. Well, she called the house. Okay. I mean they don't have cell phones, so she couldn't just call Pacey. Yeah, she called the house. Right, but well, I know that they didn't have cell phones, it wouldn't be direct like that. Well well, he says, you know, in an earlier scene, he says you got a phone call at the house, but it ended up being the guidance counselor. Then he says you got another phone call yesterday or today or whatever, and it was Andy. So it was for Pacy, but because Pacey doesn't want to be at home, like he's never gonna be there. No. This is gonna sound bad, but Andy probably would have done a better job calling a friend to speak to Pacey than his own house. What I thought was really funny was when Mr. Winter says, um, that one, she's a she's a chatty one. Yes. Basically just says, yeah, she is. But I appreciated the fact that on some level, whether it was meant to be picked up on or not, she's not been that kind of herself kind of chatty in a while. So it makes me or it made me feel hopeful that whatever she's doing, or you know, what therapy she may be receiving working. Yeah. Yeah. You can tell in this scene, like the more Pacey is listening to his dad talk about it, he has just been holding on to his pain. So he's like not fully let himself grieve that she's gone and that she is now having to deal with this on her own. I mean, I know she's at an intensive rehab facility essentially with support in that way, but like he is not the one there. But when he says, She told me that you are her hero. I know, and to give you this, and then he gives him a hug. Now that part that was incredibly sweet. And poor Pace, he just breaks down on his shoulder. And I mean, truthfully, that's the hug that Pacey's been waiting on for years. Yes, it is, and but then it made me think about the fishing trip when he's laying it all out there crying in the sand, but his dad's passed out. Like he has been holding on to all of this for so long, and like him hugging him, holding on for dear life, and the tears, yes, in this moment it is about Andy and it hurts so bad, but it was just years of built-up correct, yeah. And I don't doubt for a second that that's not part of what or that it it's not, or that I think that Andy would have realized if if she had enough of her right mind back, she would have known that. Yeah. And she would have known how healing that is, yes, and and is impacting him even now, even though she's gone. Gosh. I just want to hug him too. I love him so much. I'm not sure that I can say that enough. I know. But um, it was good. It was it was sweet, it was a bit healing. It does not, but uh what I will say, and I do think that it is realistic that when you have a relationship like Pacey and his dad have, it's not gonna be solved or completely healed or fixed in that one conversation and in that one hug. And so it it's not for them either, and so we're gonna see like the ups and downs and the back and forth between them. But I do think that some there is breakthrough in that in that scene, and I like it.

SPEAKER_00 32:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:55

And he apologize actually apologized. That that was needed, like words need to be said. Oh, of course. But I mean I think that stems from he doesn't know what all that Pacey has been through or how far Pacey has come because he doesn't know anything. But then he he and he says he called the school to explain and help so that he can retake the finals that he didn't even write his name on. But I mean, I'm sorry, he Mr. Witter set that up in the you know, when he's dropping him off in school in the police car, and he is base I mean, I just put, you know, that he's getting dropped off by his downer of a dad, just harping on him, don't screw this up. And I mean, Pacey's walking in with the weight of the world on his shoulders to begin with. He doesn't feel like he has any reason to continue to keep moving on the track that he had been since Andy had impacted his life and she's not here and all this stuff. So it it really does speak volumes that his dad called to get that set up and that they were willing to allow him to come back and redo it. Yeah. You know what? I will continue to build up Dawson too whenever he deserves it. So in the scene where he gets out of the cop car, Pacey, and he's walking, he slams the door, and Dawson is like, What'd he do? Tried to run you over this morning. Um, then Dawson says to him, as they're walking, they're walking away. The camera is behind him. So it's just a conversation in passing. Dawson says, How's Andy? Have you heard from her? Right. Which Pacey hasn't. He says, No, not yet. Okay. Dawson is also dealing with a lot right now. He is. A season ago? Oh yeah. I wouldn't have even asked. Episode two, when it's Pacey's birthday. I don't know if it's two, but anyways. Episode whatever, when it was Pacey's birthday and he's slamming bikes around because he failed his driving test. And all that Dawson can't even see that. He's not even aware of what's going on because he's solely focused on what he's dealing with. The growth that we have seen in this character is incredible. Just putting aside, which I know he doesn't want to share everything about what he saw with Joey's dad right now. But it's still even even the stuff with his mom moving, like his family, and it's still a lot that he's also dealing with, and he's not even bringing that up, which you shouldn't, obviously. But for Dawson, it's a big deal. It is. And two, though, I mean it I I wondered several times. I can't remember if Dawson knows if Pacey knows about Mr. Potter. But you know, Pacey's dad was talking to him about some of the investigation before he got out of the car to go into school. Yeah, he says, Are y'all staking it out? Mm-hmm. And but but then he says, Can't you just leave him alone? He's trying to right. So it makes me think, just like with Joey, Joey thinks they just won't leave him alone because of his past. So maybe Pacey thinks the same thing and doesn't actually know anything new. Right. I mean, I I just several of those lines or scenes made me kind of wonder, like, what do you know or not know? And they don't do a very good job of helping you to know or not know what they know or don't know. But anyway, I do think that um we we get a glimpse of just how small this town is, though, when like the sheriff walks into the ice house and Mike walks out from the back and he says, Hey John. And it's just like I mean, we know that it is, and we know these kids have grown up together. But it's still when we see glimpses of that and just like they're they're not just they don't just know each other because their kids are friends and grow up together. They literally know each other, they lived around each other, they all also grew up in a way together because even as adults you're growing up, and so like they're raising their kids together, and and so it probably also was I mean, Sheriff John doesn't have a heart most times, but it couldn't have been he probably wasn't a sheriff, maybe. I don't know how long he's been the sheriff. It's only been three years that m Mr. Potter was in prison, I guess. So who knows? But anyways, either way, he was probably a cop at the least. So Sheriff Whitter probably was a part of the original arrest in some capacity. Most likely. I mean, it's probably just all tangled, and so I just it we were just reminded how small this place really is. And Pacey um Joey looks at Pacey and says, What's going on, Pacey? Like right. And furthermore, you know, he he walks in and is like, What are you doing here, Pacey? And tries to tell him multiple times not to associate with them because he's a known felon. Um you're a known abuser at this point, so yeah. So the well, her dad goes back to jail because uh Dawson does tell her what she what he saw. And he I mean he he says that he's gonna have to do the right thing even if she can't, and so he's gonna have to go to the police and and she goes with him and his parents. Dawson goes to speak to Mr. Potter and bring it up that he knows. And he tells him basically that, you know, I'm I'm stuck. And you know, Dawson tries to persuade him that, you know, for someone who says that they love their family with all their heart, like you're saying that you do, and we know that he's just trying to provide the best way that he thinks he knows possible for his family. You know, he's Dawson tries to make the plea that you know, you would think that you would try to get unstuck, especially after you've already been to prison for this and you've you've come back and you know shouldn't want to start over. But yes, he talks to Joey. They end up going to the sheriff's office and talking to Mr. Whitter about it, or Sheriff Whitter about it. And I mean, you can tell, or at least I felt like I could tell that Joey was not happy about the situation. Not at all. I mean, she she shrugged Gail's touch off. Like she didn't even want to be, she's done with all of the people at this point. Yes. And they have but then she wears a wire. Well, it's when Mr. Potter, her dad, is telling her that you know he he needs to make this right and that he wants to, and then she tells him that, well, I did it for you, and lifts her shirt up to show that she's got a wire pack strapped to her. And the cops are outside. And Bessie's outside too. Yes, and I mean he you can tell he there's almost an element of relief and and that can be said for some people in bad situations that it's like they just didn't want to have to do it themselves. It's like they'd almost rather be caught than have to go turn themselves in because turning themselves in is on their own, you know, or is of their own free will and accord versus something happens to them and the blame then falls on the fact that, you know, I got caught. You know, do you get what I'm saying? It it takes their own responsibility out of it in some level or to some level which is kind of sad, but I mean it is what it is, and and like I said, I remember that that was coming, but I did not remember that she wears a wire, and that's how that comes crashing down. Dawson is there though for the whole thing, or he just walks up or whatever outside, and she looks at him with nothing. I mean, just pure well, pure anger, but I mean it borderline on hate. Yeah. I mean, she and she he asks her how she's doing and if he can do anything for her, and she says, No. Right. I mean, she tells him, he tells her that she did the right thing, and she says, No, you did the right thing. And it leads you to believe that you know there's some part of her that appreciates that this has been done, yeah, but then it spins on the head real fast, and this Yeah, because she she's not denying that what her dad is doing is wrong, correct. And and Dawson feeling the need to do what's right, fine. That's not what's argued here. It's she just doesn't want any part of it, and she's begging him to just not like just let it be, let it go. But he can't, and I respect him for that. I don't blame him at all. But when she says, I can't even describe what I did after she says, You what you did is right, I can't even describe what I did. And she says, I don't know if I can forgive my father, right? I know, no, she says, I don't think that I will ever be able to forgive myself, and she tells him, but from now on, I can never forgive you, and I don't want to know you. I think that on some level he knew it was coming because another conversation they had where she's uh he says, I'll do it for you. Um because I love you too much, and that I don't want to be selfish, or it's not about me, or so whatever he says. Like she's basically told him in that conversation, We won't be able to move forward if you do this. There there won't be us. Well, furthermore, in the opening scene, it's all about this or this conversation circles around, you know, love can it withstand anything? And he asks her to tell him that she'll love him no matter what, or through anything. Because he knows what he's gotta do what he's got to tell her. And she doesn't really give him a a firm answer. And then boom. Mm-hmm. She spits basically some of that conversation right back out in his face. Because he says, I've got to tell you something that you're not gonna like, so I'll say it quickly when he's about to tell her about her dad, and she says the exact same thing to him before she uh does that whole I don't want to know you.

SPEAKER_00 43:47

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 43:49

But basically she tells him that you know there are just some circumstances that love cannot basically withstand. Mm-hmm. And I'm paraphrasing here, but So they're done. It is It is over. And he just says, See ya, Joey to himself. And it's really sad. I don't I'm not a Joey and Dawson fan, but it is really sad because when it's something that like, you know, when they first broke up the first time earlier in this season, it was that was well, she technically kissed Jack too, but uh that was all Dawson. Like it was Dawson and he couldn't get past his own self. Like that was this though, it was this was grown up like this may not be the right way to say, but this was grown-up material, like grown-up situation, grown-up conversation, grown-up like actions with consequences, big stuff. And with either one of them, like I I can't place the blame on either one of them in this because it's like I I understand her anger towards him, but I understand why he did what he did. Right. So it's not it's not like it's like, could you not have just kept your mouth shut? No, it I I don't blame him, but I know why she's so angry, right? So it's it's just uh uh I mean at the end of the day, she had to know something was coming at some point period. I mean it it just is what it is, yeah. But at the same time, you know Well, it was heavy. It was good, and she I think that I think that both of them did a very great job in this episode. Like her, she has some emotional stuff sometimes. Yeah, and just and I think what makes it that much heavier is how happy she's been, like we mentioned in the last one. They really, really drive it home how happy she's been lately and then just sticky with it. Yes, definitely, yeah, it's pretty, it's pretty hard. Uh uh, Mitch and Gail. Mitch um was like two different characters for me in this episode because in when he first comes in and she's telling him that she's leaving, and he he's trying to make her feel guilty for leaving her son. He is the real villain in the show. He's the worst. The worst. As the episode goes on, it's not that I like him, but it's like, okay, this is the old niche where he and he says, I felt like a father again, I felt like a husband. Okay, I get that. Great. Well, did it did it take your son almost dying for you to realize you miss your family? Like I you've had every opportunity, and now she's leaving. Well, I just I stand by what I've said in a previous episode or after a previous episode that I personally feel like he just wants her there so she can see whatever he ends up doing, whether it's with somebody else or whatever. He he just wants her close enough to see it in like a selfish way because he doesn't he's not gonna get back with her, and he's never gonna get past what happened. And I just it it it's an ego thing to me. Does that make any sense? I see the ego for sure, you know. It because he's he's obviously dating other people, like where was Nicole and all this? I said that earlier. Not that I want her to be around, but you know, like you're asking her to stay, but you're clearly with somebody else and you have no intentions of getting back together. Why are you asking her to stay? Anyway, I just I I can't stand Mitch. But I'm glad that Gail, because she was willing to stay in the last episode. She was gonna stay and fight. But in this episode, I'm glad that when it comes push comes to shove and he's begging her to stay, she says, No, I gotta go. And I'm proud of that. Me too. Proud for her and not letting him guilt her into staying to be because she's gonna be labeled as a bad mom leaving her son. Because no. Dawson has he doesn't want his mom to go, but it's not because he doesn't want her to go for the job, it's because he really wants his parents to be together. I mean, let's not forget Gail has been the breadwinner for how long? Exactly. Gail's gotta do what Gail's gotta do to provide, okay? Yes, and at this point, what she is doing is legal, above board, and not involving scandalous activities. So and she has gone about in the right way, like talking it out with her son, and and it she even tries to talk it out with Mitch. Now she's saying, No, I'm going. What no matter what you say, I'm going. Exactly. So she's Gail has grown too. And she says to him, I'm going, but and and not these exact words, but and then if we find our way back to each other, we find our way back to that's a very mature thing. I mean, as adults, they should be showing some maturity. Surprise. Yes, but I think she either she makes a comment, I think, about you know that they're not gonna fight he Mitch says that he wants back what they had, yeah. And she says, we'll never have that back, which is the truth. But if they are able and what a what a turn because that's what she was trying to fight for in the earlier episodes, like yes, she wanted what they had, yeah. So now it's such a it's such a parallel thing of like it's like she's putting the shoes on the other feet, basically. Yes. But it just it it shows all of her maturity and how far she's come and found resolve in it, in that she is saying, you know, like and it we're never gonna have what we had again. And if we find our way back to each other, then we do, you know, like when she comes, if she comes back or whatever, but it's not gonna happen if she stays. Right. And that goes back to his ego because he selfishly, I just feel like he just I'm not saying he's out here trying to just flaunt everything in front of her, but he He is right now, at least, yes. He is, but he wants her to have a front row seat to what he's doing, just because I think that in some way he's still trying to find a way to get back at her. Whether it's I think her leaving will be what's best for him too, because people can actually try to basically they need to detox from each other. This toxic situation that they're in, they need to detox. I agree. Um well I thought overall I I liked the episode. I'm going an eight. I'm giving it a five. I contemplated a four, but I didn't hate it that bad. So I just I don't know why. I I'm just I'm I'm ready for some of these storylines to move along. Like what? Well some of what I would say, if I'm being really truthful, would be too insensitive to say. But I mean, overall, I I appreciate wrapping up certain stories. I I hate that we just got Joey's dad back and now he's back in the pen, but it is what it is. Um I'm thankful that Joey and Dawson are finally over because I'm I'm done with that ricocheting effect of back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. I'm happy that you know we're beginning to figure out how to move on for Pacey and what's coming for him in the future. Um and then I'm very excited about Jack and Jen and having Grimms back in the future. Yeah. But for sure, this was a better season. It was good. Yes. Um, I'm so ready for season three. It is by far my favorite season of the whole show. I'm not saying every episode is my favorite. Oh no, but as a whole, season three is. I don't want to put it up there and you're like, when we start watching and get to episodes you don't remember, to be like, what the heck are you talking about? But as a whole, season three. I know, but I'm also excited to get into episodes I've never seen before. I know, me too. And be hopefully just like shocked. Me too. I hadn't even thought about my MVP, honestly. And we had to go Dawson. I mean he's kind of the low-hanging fruit, if you will, but I really am proud of the growth, like we've talked about, in his character. Um it took a lot out of him to go and speak to Mr. Potter first. Um it took a lot to, you know, just overall be a part of the sting operation, whether it was indirectly or directly. Um, because you know, I I look at it as a sting operation with mostly Joey, but he still had to go and speak to you know, the authorities to let them know that what he had seen. But um because I mean he could have very easily just tried to be like, oh, this is not my problem, and not done anything about it. Yeah. True. But but I mean, those are hard drugs. It would have been worse than a fire. Oh, I know. And I think too, like, the fire could have been a whole lot worse. Like the restaurant was closed down for the time being. So the kids weren't even technically supposed to be there. So I think it was just like a threat from his competitors. Oh, I don't know them, so I'm not reading too much into it, but it's okay. No, like it's not like they did it when it's a restaurant that's open full of people. So it would just escalate though if he didn't listen or he didn't back off or do what they were wanting to do. And so it could have been a whole lot worse. I think my MVP moment, not a person, but the moment was with um Jen and Grimms at the end. I almost said that. And I loved Pacey and his dad, but we don't see enough of the dad to really get some gratification from that relationship and how they fix it. Um I honestly don't remember the next time we will see him. Like I don't know if we see him here or there or if it's the very end of the show that I'm remembering. So I have no idea. But the grams and Jen and she's moving back in, and now we've got Jack and this beautiful little family that they're gonna create together. It makes me so happy. So that I know it, that is and Jen, the the line of Jen saying that about I don't need I don't need correct you, and I don't need to live here, but I want to. It was a great family. So um a couple of little trivia things. That this is the last appearance of the Ice House. Okay, because this the actual restaurant wanted to cut ties with the show. Okay, and so they just wanted to discontinue. I don't know why. Um, so they've burned it down. Makes sense. And this was the last um episode that the creator of the show and the original showrunner, he this is it, he's he's done. He quit after season two. He does come back for the series finale at the end of the show. But so we will because this is interesting, and most people pick up on this because season three starts and it does have a different feel to it, and it's like, what the heck are we trying to do here? It is because it's a different showrunner and it is going in a different direction, so it is important to note like he he did leave. He he it was to focus on a new show, but anyways. Um ready to spin. Okay, this is survivor reality. Survive a reality show and what reality show? Okay, so which character would go on a reality show and what reality show? There's a part of me that wants to say Jen. What show? I don't know. I think I I've never watched Big Brother, but if it's somebody that's gotta figure something out and be kind of crafty at it, I feel like Jen could do it. Okay, if we're going game show and like deception, I think there's like some version of Pacey that would be good at that just because of his charm. And like he would draw people in and they'd want to be with him and work with him. So if it was something like Big Brother or Traitors or I've never watched Survivor, I so I don't know about that, but I feel like my reality, I feel like Jen might have been like, um, she probably maybe maybe the old Jen, I don't know. She would do well in something like party down south or something. Maybe where she could just party it up. Yeah, I feel like it would need to be a different genre than just party down south for her, though. Like I feel like that's kind of a little too wild country. Well, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't want to go That's what I meant by genre Jersey sure, yeah. It would need to be like a form of that, but just maybe one that's in like Massachusetts or something, yeah. Although I could see Jen being on the Bachelorette to some degree, yeah. I agree. Dawson would never survive as The Bachelor. My gosh. He would probably have a coronary and just wouldn't. Yes, he would. I'm so ready for season three, but we are gonna take a little hiatus because we're gonna watch two or three movies, so our next few episodes will be moving related. So that's exciting. And then we'll dive into season three. Yep. But also, we're gonna have coming out in the next few weeks the rest of the boy draft. Yes. So round one is out and we've we're gonna release the rest of them. No one else matters because I have Joshua Jackson's. Wait, did I say Pacy or Josh? I think I said Pacey. I think you did say Pacey.

unknown 59:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 59:26

Anyways, I'll take them both. I don't care. That's a wrap on today's episode. If you love hanging out with us, make sure you like and subscribe on YouTube where you can watch this full video and put us on Spotify so you never miss a rewatch. You can also find us on Instagram and TikTok for clips, behind the scenes moments, and all the nostalgia your heart can handle. Leave us a comment, rate the show, share the episode with a fellow Rumi. It truly helps more than you know, and we love you and Remy. We'll be back every Tuesday and Thursday with more laughs, more nostalgia, and of course, more rewatches. Until then, keep the remote close, the memories closer, and always be kind. Rewind and press play again. Bye, Roomies. Bye. Roll the credits. Press play again. Two roommates, one remote is fully DIY. Editing, us, producing, also us. Recording, yep, still us. Posting it everywhere. Shockingly, us again. Two roommates, one remote, zero team. So please clap accordingly. Thank you very much.