#30: Why Your Hair Changes in Perimenopause (and What You Can Actually Do About It)

If your hair suddenly feels different in this phase of life… you’re not imagining it.

In this episode, I’m talking with Allison Conrad and Jay Small, founders of AREY, about what actually happens to women’s hair in perimenopause — and why so many of us feel completely caught off guard by it.

We talk about:

•  why your hair suddenly feels completely different in midlife 
•  the science behind gray hair (and why it’s not “just genetics”) 
•  how stress and inflammation impact aging hair 
•  why postpartum can accelerate hair aging 
•  the surprising connection between scalp health and overall health 
•  what’s actually happening when your hair becomes thinner, drier, or frizzier overnight 
•  and why changes to our hair can feel way more emotional than we expect

This conversation goes way beyond beauty.

It’s really about what happens when we start noticing the physical signs that we’re entering a new phase — and how disorienting that can feel as women who are used to functioning at full speed all the time.

And yes… we also talk about what can actually help.

Just to be clear: this is not a sponsored episode.
AREY is simply something I found while trying to understand what was happening to my own hair in my 40s, and I thought it could help some of you too.

🎉 GIVEAWAY 🎉

I teamed up with AREY to give one listener their AM + PM Duo (a 3-month supply valued at $295).

Enter here:
Arey + Next Phase Giveaway

About AREY:

AREY creates products designed to support healthier aging hair by focusing on scalp health, oxidative stress, and long-term hair wellness.

Learn more:
arey.com

Follow them:
@areyhaircare

If this episode resonated with you, send it to a friend who’s been staring at her hair lately wondering what the heck is happening.

Have an idea for the next episode?
Email me at stacey@stacey-hutson.com
DM me @stacehutson

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I got a heartfelt email from one of my listeners, and in it she told me she had entered paramenopause and her hair was changing and that it was really starting to mess with her mentally. And I felt this email because I had been going through the exact same thing. Everybody talks about skin changes and hormonal changes in this phase of life, but nobody is talking about what happens to our hair. The texture changes, the dryness, the frizz, and of course, the gray hairs that you never thought you'd get. It can really mess with you. Because our hair is no different than every other part of our body that is being affected by hormonal changes. So I decided to find people who could actually help us understand what's going on and tell us what we can realistically do about it. Welcome to the Next Phase Podcast, the show for millennial moms entering paramenopause who want to stop fixing themselves and start listening to themselves. I'm your host, Stacey Hudson, and today I'm joined by Allison Conrad and Jay Small. Allison is the founder of Array, the wrinkle cream of hair care. It's the first functional beauty brand to target aging hair by getting ahead of the grades. And Jay Small is a celebrity hairstylist and tricologist with more than 20 years of experience studying hair and scalp health. If you thought you knew your hair, I can almost guarantee you you'll learn something new about it in this conversation. We talk about why your hair suddenly feels different in perimenopause, the connection between stress and aging hair, why postpartum can accelerate hair aging, and what is actually happening when your hair starts to become drier, frizzier, or thinner, seemingly overnight. My mind was blown multiple times during this conversation, and one more thing before we start. This is not a sponsored episode. It is simply a product I found while trying to help this listener and understand my own changing hair. And don't forget to stick around until the end because we do have a really great giveaway for you from Aray. Let's get into it. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to the next phase podcast. I have Miss Allison Conrad and Mr. Jay Small with me today. Hello, how are you guys?

SPEAKER_02 2:46

Good. Thanks for having us. Yeah, thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

I am so excited. I told them offline beforehand that I did not know this product existed, this company that they have. And the way I found out is by Googling is there a product to treat gray hairs like and found that they are, they are the product. So I want to start by talking a little bit about the emotional component of what happens when you hit your late 30s and all of a sudden it feels like almost overnight your hair changes. And I feel like people don't talk about that a whole lot. We talk about our skin changes, we talk about our hormonal inside changes, but you never really see it coming until it comes. At least that was my experience. I have a gray cat and the very first gray hair on my head, I swore it was Frosty's hair. So I just went to pick it off and I realized it was attached and I lost it. I'm not joking. I started crying. It was a really emotional moment for me because I turned 40 this year, and this was about when I turned 39. It was like a shock to my system. And so I want to hear from you guys in your experience, Jay, you and the hair industry and Alice and you with creating this company. What have you learned about women specifically as they age and what it means for them for their hair just to change?

SPEAKER_02 4:19

I had the personal experience of going through a similar situation as you. And that's why we created the brand. Was I saw my hair was aging. Gray is the most sort of visible sign of aging hair, but it ages in many ways. I saw my first gray hair around the time I turned 30. And it was just like you said, everybody remembers that moment when they find their first gray hair or white hair, actually, is really becomes noticeable when it's lost all pigment. And so that's why we created this brand. And there were so many products for skin aging and your skincare routine. And for hair, it was really like, okay, you wait until it's too gray and you dye it, or you accept the gray and embrace it and live with it. And it's and some people love it, and that's great too. But we wanted to offer a solution to help slow that process. And also when you have great hair, preserve what you have at that time before it's too late and you're trying to fix a problem. So that is why we created it from my personal experience. And obviously, there was more people than me experiencing this, and Jay can speak to that more firsthand.

SPEAKER_03 5:20

Well, when Allison had come to me with her first gray and said, Hey, what are the options? I had been 15 years into the industry and I had seen the deteriorating effects of potentially covering it with hair dye for a long period of time. And much different from skin, skin, we will see a revival every 20 to 35 days. The hair that maybe goes below your shoulders there has been with you for two and a half years. And so the reaction that you had two and a half years ago is causing potentially the effect that you see now in the dryness or the thinness or whatever your concern is for that. And so I think a big part of it was really understanding the long-term effects of the choices that we make now. Because as your hairstylist, I've been Allison's hairstylist for 10 years, I've been some people's hairstylist for 20 years. I'm the guy you're coming back to. And it stresses me out when I noticed something that I likely had been a part of the problem.

SPEAKER_00 6:17

Jay, would you mind explaining what a trichologist can do? Trichologist, yes, I would. Trichologist, thank you.

SPEAKER_03 6:24

Trichologist. So my studies are specific to the hair and scalp health and the relationship that has to the overall ecosystem of the body. So, say for example, you are uh Herimenopause a woman, and you are noticing some thinning in the hair strand or excess shedding, that is likely due to a hormonal balance. And so oftentimes we think, oh, I have a problem with my hair. Let me get a new conditioner. But it actually has more of an intrinsic response. So something in the body has changed, and then the result is that the hair has changed. Now you can temporarily alter it with products, but my job as a trichologist is to recommend a product, but then also recommend a protocol that you look at your diet, your lifestyle, so that those products can have the best effects and work synergistically to correct the issue. And so a big part of it is giving people the benefit of doing the things with your hair to make it look and feel good now, but also making sure that we counteract those options so that we don't see deterioration as our relationship unfolds.

SPEAKER_02 7:32

Sure. And then I will just add because gray doesn't have an age. People go gray in their teens. Some women we've heard from don't go gray until their 60s or 70s. That's the other hard thing, is this isn't a specific age where you say, okay, you're gonna turn gray or you're gonna see your first gray hair at this age. So it really depends on a lot of different factors.

SPEAKER_00 7:51

I'm curious. I feel like I've seen more women embrace the gray either on media or in my real life. Is that been your experience too? That people seem to be more accepting of it now.

SPEAKER_03 8:04

I think what I see from my clients is that they don't feel as if they have to have a fully brown, dark brown head of hair, where it's the same way that maybe someone who's in their 40s who has like a perfect face, we might see as maybe having done a little too much in the preservation realm. So it's like there's a bit of a patina that we all have earned in our life, but it doesn't mean we don't want to preserve a youthful appearance. But maybe perfection isn't necessarily the desire as it was maybe 10 years ago when it comes to hair care, which is I'm not aging at all, and maybe overdoing some of those steps. So we do have clients that are like, yeah, I have great, but we maybe highlight around it so that it's not so obvious. But while you might have a handful of whites or grays in there, you still have thousands of other hairs that are still fully pigmented, have great texture that you're trying to maintain, right?

SPEAKER_00 8:57

Right. Well, let's talk biologically, like what actually is happening. Help us understand when our hair turns gray, what is happening and why is it happening?

SPEAKER_03 9:06

It really goes back to when we first came together on this concept, Allison's father, who is also one of our medical advisors, had really discovered that there's only one gene that causes gray hair. And to be honest, when we say that, people are gonna be like, but I think it's genetics. And you're like, no, no, we just said one gene. It's called the IRF-4 gene. It accounts for about 30% of our graying. And what we learned from our clinical study is even if you have this gene, it doesn't mean that you can't slow the process down. Very simply put, biologically, your body stops producing an enzyme called tyrosinase, which is what gives our hair its pigment. And so if you're genetically disposed to this, it will be compounded with other things like your diet, your lifestyle, and lifestyle breaks down to sun exposure and oxidative stress, dyeing your hair, or even your actual lifestyle stress and how that affects your sleep. And so all these cumulative things come together. And then as we get to, like Allison was saying, late 20s, 30s, maybe even late 30s, early 40s, it starts to show the effect. And going backward on that, our hair is a barometer of what's happening in our body. So if we have too much stress, if we're overexposed to oxidative stress, if we're not eating enough, if we're using a GLP1, all these things can show up in our hair because when our body is in a deficit, our hair is not essential and we'll see changes.

SPEAKER_00 10:29

And it makes so much sense, but I don't think we often consider our hair in the way it reflects our health, right? We we think about our skincare, we think about our weight, we don't think about our hair, and maybe that is why it feels like such a shock when it changes, because you're just like, well, I thought that I had hair and it was just going to be the same my whole life. And then when it changes, you're just a little taken aback by totally, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:55

And I get that. And I think the best way that I can visualize it is imagine a spider web and imagine the spider just got a little lazy on one side, right? And what happens is it's going to cave in upon itself because you have this consistent growth. Like if you have hair that is, say, past your shoulders, that's good consistent growth. But then say you had a moment, your hair is like a chain-link fence. So when there is a lack in the nutrients that are necessary to make that happen, or a lack in the nutrients to give it pigment, you're gonna see a marker in there that is where something had changed. And so I think often, like you had said before, it's about acknowledging it very early on. And hopefully now, the same way that we know if we see thinning or changes in texture, there are things that can be done, you know?

SPEAKER_00 11:42

Yes. Wow. It's kind of blowing my mind because all of us have been approaching our hair with outside products our whole life. That's just all we've known. It's a very new concept to understand that it there's just so many more levels to it than that.

SPEAKER_02 11:55

Yeah, I think also, too, because we think our hair is dead, you know. So it's like, oh, there's nothing I can do. It's dead. Well, your hair, it's sort of at the root, right? So all of our serums are meant to be applied to the scalp. I'm trying to nurture and grow better hair. It's thinking about like your soil and the nutrients you're giving to it to grow a better plant, but it takes very long. Our results take three to six months because your hair grows half an inch a month. So it's not like skincare where Jay was saying it it turns every 28 days. You can more quickly see the results from a skincare routine, but hair is on your head for so long and yet we're damaging it. And so we expect it to be beautiful for many, many years while we're also putting it through so much. It's kind of baffling that we haven't been doing more proactively and you know, having more of a routine for our hair, like our skin. So yeah, it's it is interesting that we it we take it for granted, I think a lot, our hair. And then all of a sudden, when it is not what we always expected it to be, we're like and you're like, hi, what's going on?

SPEAKER_03 13:00

I have a reaction. Do you have a reactive thing? You know, and I think to your point, very well put is that hair care has been very reactive for all of our lives. And then there's an element that I learned actually, I think from Allison and other like-minded clients that were very proactive with all other elements of their life, whether that is skincare, physique, even parenting. You know, like there's so many things that we look at ahead of time. Whereas with hair care, textural change, for example, the easiest way to describe it is is we use a flat iron. So we use 400 degrees of heat to like shrink it into a shape that we love, and then we hope that when we wash it, it's gonna be good. And it's not. So, you know.

SPEAKER_01 13:40

I'm laughing because I just I just did that before this. I know you, right?

SPEAKER_03 13:44

Yes, I know you. Yeah, I've been there.

unknown 13:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:48

So okay, wait, let's talk about texture a little bit more. This is fascinating. So I'm biracial, my dad's from Barbados, my mom is from England. I was born with very curly hair, dark curly hair, coarse dark curly hair my whole life. I just I had assumed that it would always be that way. And I relaxed my hair back in the 90s and I stopped doing that in my 20s, but I still straighten it and I go back and forth between curly and straight. Around 38, 39, I decided to wear it curly, washed it, let it air dry. And guess what? One side of my hair wasn't curly anymore. It was straight. And I once again had a moment because I was like, what the is going on? And I was shocked. I was in total shock. How is this possible? I have curly hair, and now my hair is naturally straight on one side. So that is one example, and there's plenty others that are a little bit different than that, but there are textural changes that happen too. Can you help us understand what's going on?

SPEAKER_03 14:53

Yeah, totally. So this goes back to the concept of the hair being a barometer for overall health. Like Alison was saying, the pot for the flower, there is uh about a hundred to a hundred and forty thousand hair follicles on everybody's head. These are all little microorgans and they all have a shape. Imagine that plant in your house, it can only grow as big as the pot that it comes from. So the same way, the shape of our hair follicles is going to determine how curly, wavy, or straight our hair strands are. And this is changing over life based on hormonal changes or levels of inflammation. So when you have a hormonal change, say you're 39, which I think we now know is a perimenopausal starting point. But like I think honestly, 15 years ago when I started cutting hair, I don't think that that was the way that we looked at it. So what happens is the estrogen drops a little bit and then the testosterone's higher. It then creates something called DHT. And DHT has a profound effect on our hair follicles. It actually causes elastin and collagen to build up in there. And what it does is it changes. So we have a circular shape that now is a almost like a ribbon, flat kind of cylinder. And so that's going to change the output of the hair. So straight, curly, wavy is going to be altered by that. And so when you see changes in your texture, it's actually really important to go and speak to your endocrinologist or your internal medicine doctor because it is likely indicative of a hormonal change first. Second is inflammation. So it could be an area where your head is most sun exposed. It could be an area where you're putting hair dye on. It could even be someone who has sebarried dermatitis that has unchecked scalp issues and is maybe itching more and more in that area. This inflammation is going to compress the hair follicles and cause change. So hopefully that's helpful to the people. It's really less about finding a way to care for your hair and more getting to the root cause, which is what a tricologist helps with, is to find the practitioner that can help you understand why the change happened. And then the hairstylist can help you mend the change.

SPEAKER_00 17:00

Okay. Is it easy for me to find a tricologist anywhere? I like I look at you two, and I I've had the same hairdresser for a long time, and I'm like, that would be so wonderful if we could just create a company together and all of a sudden you have him on call, but most of us don't.

SPEAKER_01 17:16

So who do we have?

SPEAKER_03 17:18

Well, I think a big part is you can reach out to j to ray.com. He's pretty quick to respond out here. And he's not AI, even though people think I am. But I also think a big part of it now is we're really working with hairstylists and dermatologists to try and bridge that gap. Because even dermatologists are really, I don't want to call it undereducated, but it hasn't been a focal point. Hair loss means you need monoxidil. And it doesn't necessarily translate to, well, what are the factors that cause hair loss? And so I think online there are a growing number of tricologists. I think there are more and more out there. It's growing.

SPEAKER_00 17:53

Right, right. But that's great that you guys are in an industry that it's like at the beginning, there's so much room for growth. There's so much to learn.

SPEAKER_03 18:01

Honestly, the best thing that I think a Ray gave me was the ability to go and learn more about tricology in a very serious way. There's a bunch of different levels of this programs, but spending two and a half, three years to focus the studies on that, seeing that there wasn't much available in the pigment space because seen more as a vanity as opposed to what we've learned about hair loss and scalp health. That was a real gift for me.

SPEAKER_00 18:24

Are you able to speak to the lifestyle changes that we can make because we're starting to understand that it's not just apply a different product on top, it's also starting from within, like diet or sleep or exercise, anything like that?

SPEAKER_02 18:38

Well, take not to say gray for your supplementation.

SPEAKER_00 18:41

I knew that was coming.

SPEAKER_02 18:43

Yeah, I mean, I I think it almost sounds silly, but it's even like wear a hat when you're out in the sun. The sun hitting your hair and scalp is like, what do you think? It just hits your face and your skin, but doesn't affect your scalp and your hair. That is a big contributor to gray hair that people just don't know, don't think about.

SPEAKER_01 19:01

Oh God. I mean, we do make so much sense, but seriously, you're blowing my mind. I'm like, wait, what? I have to cover my hair too.

SPEAKER_03 19:08

And I'll just say on that, if you want to know where to look for your first graze, you can look at the reverse T-zone. You can look at your front hairline and your natural part because those are the areas, like Allison's saying, are most heavily sun exposed without any UV protection. So those are the areas where you are most likely to see your first graze before they turn white.

SPEAKER_02 19:27

Yeah. What we found out from and why we started with the supplementation was that the diets is a huge factor in what you're lacking. And so that is why we developed not to stay gray with our proprietary ingredients. That is the foundational product of our whole assortment, is like we always recommend starting with the supplement. And then topically, of course, you can use our serums as well. We just launched an overnight serum last month, and that helps with the stress factor that contributes to gray hair.

SPEAKER_03 19:55

And I think going back to just like lifestyle changes, even if there's not a product purchased, diet is the biggest thing, right? So, what can you do if maybe you can't add an incredible amount of leafy greens? Take out processed foods. Just these simple little things, because again, your hair is the last line of defense. Your hair, your body doesn't need hair, you want hair. So the best thing you can do is just think of all the things that are unhealthy. You might not be into exercise, but you don't have to eat unhealthy. And some people might say, Well, I'm stressed, I'm busy. Well, okay. What's going to make you less stressed is actually taking stock on your diet, your sleep. But that's the foundation. And then once those things are in check, there are things that you can add on, like our supplementation and our topicals. They will help on top of that, but they're only going to be as effective as the vessel that they are being applied to.

SPEAKER_00 20:47

Right. Right. Right. Your body doesn't need hair. You want hair. That right there says a lot. And that is interesting. Okay. I have a background in nutrition. Uh, used to be a food blogger, personal chef. I love using food for our health. So would you mind breaking down for me a little bit what is in the supplement, not today gray, that we can also get from our foods?

SPEAKER_03 21:13

Absolutely. Yeah. So I think the big thing is a complex of B vitamins. So we break the supplement into two categories. First part of the category is going to be things that are for overall hair health, the hair growth cycle. And what our hair growth cycle needs is cellular rejuvenation. It needs cell turnover, but it also needs to get rid of free radicals in all those little microorgans.

SPEAKER_04 21:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 21:36

And so it's a combination of B vitamins. It is iron, selenium, copper, those are big important minerals. But then there's a suite of antioxidants like black sesame and foti. And so it is both about giving life to new cells, but it is also about getting rid of cells that are bad or corrupt or damaged so that we have a healthy environment. For proliferation of hair. And those could be found through avocados, through salmon, through whole foods. But again, as you get older, you might be having those whole foods, but you need to eat a lot more of them for your body to be as efficient as you know. Five grams of protein at 25 is not five grams of protein at 35. Allison will laugh because she thinks I talk about protein all the time. That's just a personal thing. I love protein. So it's you and the rest of the amino acids.

SPEAKER_02 22:27

It's not just you.

SPEAKER_03 22:28

But I think that it's from our supplementation, it is meant to be used with a daily multivitamin because it is for your hair. The daily multivitamins for the eyebrows and down.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

Right. Okay. That's great. What are the common mistakes that you see women and men making with the thinning hair or the gray hair that's just making it worse?

SPEAKER_03 22:51

I'd say a big thing is that they don't realize that it's not a hair strand problem, it's a factory problem. So think about the hair follicle as your little factory, right? And when you start to see thinning, something about the factory is less efficient than what it was two, three, four years before that. And so oftentimes I see a lot of women right now that are say postpartum and getting through life a little bit. And that means that their food supplies are down. Chicken nuggets, chicken, survival foods, right? Survival foods and sleep is not prioritized. And I think that the thing is they go and come to the hairdresser and they're like, I think I need a glossing treatment. I could put a glossing treatment on you, or I could give you a product, but fundamentally the factory is growing a less sufficient product. So you got to get to the source of the product. And while you can mend the other characteristics by giving volumizing products to it, you got to get to the source of the problem, which is what fuel do we have? What repair are we getting? Like Allison mentioned from nighttime care. And that could equally be saying, okay, sleep better, or hey, dad, you need to take some of these night shifts. I think it's a really holistic lifestyle view. What can you handle and what are you asking help for?

SPEAKER_01 24:18

I'm curious how your clients handle when they come to their hairdresser and they're like, give me the glossing deep conditioner treatment.

SPEAKER_00 24:26

You're like, well, let's talk about your lifestyle.

unknown 24:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:29

It's a big thing though, because I think so many people aren't really listening GLP1 is the biggest thing that I've seen the most changes in. And actually, I saw it for the first run through COVID. There was a strain of COVID where it was a very delayed attribute. Now, what we call this is is telogen of fluvium, but it's about three to six months after you have a what we call a causation factor, you'll see a shedding better. Doesn't mean the hair is not going to come back, but something caused the factory to shut off. And so we see shedding and then it turns back on again. And I think oftentimes with like a GLP1, we're like, great, we're losing weight, we're feeling good, we're getting healthy. But like healthy isn't just being skinny, it's also providing the nutrient supply to keep not only your hair healthy, but your skin elastic and your muscles strong and vibrant, right? And your mind sharp. So, you know, I hope more hairdressers start to dig in because I know a lot about the personal relationship stuff. I'm not a psychologist. I don't know how to keep a relationship good, but I do know how to help your hair. So maybe stuff with the relationship advice.

SPEAKER_00 25:35

I feel like you and bartenders would have a lot to talk about because you come to them for something else and then you start telling them their life story. The GLP ones, that's interesting to me. So is there a negative reaction on your hair when you take GLP ones?

SPEAKER_03 25:50

Yeah. So what we've seen, and I think what a lot of experts have seen, is when you stifle the food supply, you then stifle the amount of nutrients that can be used throughout the body. And like we said before, hair is not essential. So there's essential organs, our skin, there are so many other things that stack up on the list of priorities. So those nutrients now that are say in deficit, maybe 25 to 50% of what you were getting before, are gonna be utilized where they are needed. And the result is, oh, well, hair doesn't have what it needs right now. And so the signal to the body is we're gonna shut the supply off. And that's a shedding event. It doesn't mean that it's not gonna come back. It's very similar to postpartum shedding. The estrogen and progesterone turned back on in a more consistent way, and then we see shedding. But yeah, it's basically just less food means less ability to grow the stuff we love.

SPEAKER_00 26:45

Right, right. Let's talk about the scalp a little bit, because I feel like I've seen a lot of what are they called, head spa. There's a there's a lot of talk about scalp more recently and more products that are focused on the scalp. You've seen the videos of the Japanese head spas where there's like steam coming out and there's just it's a lot of fancy stuff. It's intriguing. Is it necessary? What is the importance of the scalp?

SPEAKER_03 27:11

Well, like Allison said before, the scalp is like when we think about a houseplant as the easiest way. This the scalp is the nurturing point of what you're gonna be growing, right? Whether that's hair or plant, whatever it is. So it's the foundation. And what's interesting about the scalp versus the our face is that our scalps have hundreds of thousands of microorgans on them that all have their own issues to deal with, right? Like you said before, how can one side of my head go straight but one side of my head maintain curly? It's because they're all autonomous little organs, right? So they all have their own supply, thought process, or stressors. We even see it sometimes with people that drive a lot and they see graying on the side of the head that faces the window, right? I actually notice it in my beard. So in this zone right here, I have more depigmentation than I do on this side. And so scalps are where hair really starts and comes from. So I think as we age, we have to think beyond shampoo as like something that smells good. Our hair care routine needs to mimic more our skincare routine, right? And I think Allison, a big part of this was learning more about the skincare routine and all the steps we take.

SPEAKER_02 28:25

And your scalp ages six times faster than your skin on your face. It is also aging quickly and is not getting the love that your face is getting.

SPEAKER_03 28:37

And a big part of that is what you do to it. Yeah. But yes, fundamentally, organs and the skin shedding and the oils are exasperating that. But I think a big part of it is how we treat it. Yeah. Right. Imagine if you scratched your cheek the same way you scratched the back of your head. Never. You would never do that.

SPEAKER_02 28:53

Yeah. Even like not washing it enough. Like that's not good. There's a lot of things we're doing. Relaxers, hair dye. There's so many things we're doing to our scalp that we're not helping it out.

SPEAKER_00 29:05

We need to go. Okay. Allison, can you speak a little bit more to like all of the things you started to understand better about our hair after you founded this company and started going down all the rabbit holes? Because I feel like you keep dropping like little things that I'm like, wait, what?

SPEAKER_02 29:23

I think I've I've dropped all my bombs. No, I I think the biggest one is thinking about hair like skin. And we're trying to be what skincare was 10 to 15 years ago. We're trying to bring to hair care. So for us, when we say the word gray, when we're treating gray hair, people automatically think, oh, my mom has a ton of gray hair. This is a great product for her. And we're like, yeah, so we could help her more with the texture and the hair health, but this is for you who have just found your first gray hair, or you who has a beautiful head of hair and you want to keep it, that's the time to start. It's not when you are too far gone and it's harder to fix at that point. Just like we wouldn't wait for a deep wrinkle and be like, oh, shoot, now I guess I should do something about that. It's the same kind of thought process. And I like to always say hair dye is Botox. We are the daily retinol, hyaluronic acid, UV protection, creams. We are the daily maintenance that you use. You can use it in combination with using hair dye. We're not here to say this is a replacement for hair dye. We can work in conjunction. But ideally, somebody starts earlier than when they start dyeing their hair, and so that they can slow down that process, kick that can down the curb, and have beautiful hair for much longer than they would have been able to.

SPEAKER_03 30:38

Well, and I think to your point earlier, Stacy, texture is a big thing, right? So you might have somebody on the line that's like, oh, I want to embrace my gray. Wonderful. That's a color issue that you're talking about. Now there's the textural issue. And when we started to research this, we learned that when you stop producing pigment in a hair strand, you also stop producing the disulfide bonds. And to make this very easy for people to understand, when you bleach your hair and it gets a little fried, you remove the disulfide bonds.

SPEAKER_01 31:09

Oh no.

SPEAKER_03 31:09

Sulfide bonds add flexibility, they add elasticity to a hair strand. They make it have good life and luster. And so when we see a gray or a white strand start to become more dry, coarse, brittle, it's because it doesn't have that fundamental texture, texturizer, if you will, which is this disulfide mod.

SPEAKER_00 31:30

I'm just thinking of all of my friends in the 2000s that had, you know, blonde highlights, including me at one point on my bangs. So like it just reminds me of going to the tanning salon for years and then finding out in your 40s that that was a really bad idea for your skin.

SPEAKER_01 31:48

So it's a little depressing, but we can still do something about it, is your point.

SPEAKER_03 31:54

I think that's the big thing. And I think like that's a big thing that our products also help with because I hope people understand that gray is our north star, pigment is our north star. But in order to make sure that a hair strand is pigmented, it has to grow consistently and it has to have all the other fundamental properties in order for it to look and feel its best. And that is a well-rounded hair strand that has the flexibility and the elasticity. So I think within skincare, whether you're concerned about wrinkles, dryness, whatever that is, or protection, it is about making sure that, you know, you have a well-rounded, kind of thoughtful routine. And I think for many of my clients, beyond all the things that we talked about before, it's like, okay, you're shampooing and conditioning at 32. Are you doing anything else for the scalp? Because shampoo removes all the microbiome, if you will, and conditioner just adheres to the ends. There's really nothing that we're using to actually nurture the scalp and make sure that hair is actually healthy in the food.

SPEAKER_00 32:55

Okay. And is the application process equally important in terms of like massaging it? I think about massage when I get a haircut and a deep condition, how good that feels. Is there any value in that?

SPEAKER_03 33:08

The way I look at it as a tricollege is it's stimulating blood circulation. And when we stimulate blood circulation, similar to microneedling or any type of massage, it's telling the body, hey, you got any extra nutrients that could be used up here because that's triggering blood flow, which blood flow is going to bring those nutrients that are so essential to it. So yeah, whether it's massage after using the scalp brush, it's definitely going to help both the absorption and then when it gets down there, the interaction with the nutrients that your body has to help.

SPEAKER_00 33:39

Okay. Allison, what have you seen that is possible, either for you know, friends who tried your products or customers? Like again, there's that emotional component too that I do want to touch on before I let you guys go, that it's not just about the physical changes, but it's about how you feel inside when you've got your hair back. So, like, what can we go from this to this if we start taking care of our hair in the right ways?

unknown 34:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:06

So we did a clinical study on our supplement and our serum. Um, and that was hugely important for us to see that data and understand what is possible, right? What how much effect can we have on the hair? And it was placebo controlled. So we saw from the active group, 88% had less gray hair growth after six months, and they had 13% on average less gray hair. So we're not even talking about slowing the process. We call it repigmentation. It's like reversal. And then our active group had 13% less gray hair. Our placebo group had 10% more gray hair over six months. So that was an incredible thing to see how effective is very statistically significant difference in the two groups. So that was that data point that we all now we saw it anecdotally. Jay saw it from his clients in the beginning, we saw it from customers, we get before and afters, of course, all the time. And so we knew it was working, but to have it quantitatively in black and white that this works was really important and hugely satisfying. But I will say Jay and I still look at all the reviews, and it's the most satisfying part of the job when we hear these stories that are more on the emotional side, not just like, I saw 4% less gray hair. Oh, you know, that's not what people are commenting on, but it's more of, oh my gosh, I feel so good. I got compliments on my hair. People haven't complimented my hair in years. Just that confidence boost of knowing you have some control, you're doing something about it. I also love when people are like, my husband stole it from me in the shower and is now using this product. So it's just great to hear those stories and know that we are having an effect on people's lives. But I will say you have to use this consistently daily over time. So this is a commitment, and we want to make sure people know that.

SPEAKER_00 35:51

It's a real mindset shift. And I think a lot of us only come to the conclusion that we have to take better care of ourselves when we hit a certain age, and it's like we can't ignore it anymore. And to just make time for it in your nighttime routine or in your morning routine, it's not an afterthought. It's like, no, I do this every day. I just want to share. I'm not gonna read the whole email, but it was an email from one of my listeners, and she said, I used to have curly hair, similar situation to me. The texture started changing, went straight, which I was okay with at first, but then it started falling out, and she said, It truly is starting to mess with me mentally. And she says she's done so much research, but she's so overwhelmed. And it was actually like the impetus to reach out to you guys because she's like, I want to know where to start. And it just reminded me of how personal all of this is. So, what do you wish women like her understood about this phase and about our changing hair so it feels less overwhelming?

SPEAKER_03 36:56

I really want people to understand that there are an incredible amount of solutions that exist on the market now, but you have to ask and you have to be not scared to either ask or tell somebody something, whether that is you notice something on a friend or you notice something yourself. There are things that we all go through. And the sooner that we feel comfortable to say something, know that likely on the other end of the conversation, whoever you talk to, whether it's your hairstylist, your internal medicine doctor, or a friend, there is a pathway to either stop the changes, slow the changes, or even correct the changes. I say this to my nine-year-old daughter, she'll get some feedback from us and she's like, Well, what are you doing? I'm like, I'm taking time out of my life to try and help your life. That's really all that there is to this. And so I think a big thing is let's communicate about the changes because for some people, yeah, it's hard for them to say what they're seeing or what they're feeling, but there are solutions that you can take and use, but you have to start it sooner than later so that you can get the best result. And we all know how good we feel once we actually start to have a routine, whether that's exercise or beauty or diet, right? So sooner than later.

SPEAKER_00 38:07

All right, that was so helpful. I learned so much, and I'm guessing most of my listeners feel the same way. This is all new information. Some of it's it's new information, and and it feels common sense when you tell me that I'm like, cover my hair, put sunblock on my hair. Yes, okay, sure. But we haven't been conditioned to think about that. So please I tell us where to find you, where to find your products, and then we'll talk about a fun little thing for our listeners at the end.

SPEAKER_02 38:38

So we're array.com is our website, and then we're also on Amazon, Credo, as Jay mentioned, Erwan here in Los Angeles, and hopefully more places soon. But yeah, you can definitely find us easily online.

SPEAKER_03 38:51

And you can follow us on social array hair care, whether that's on Instagram or TikTok, but we try and make bite-sized educational content consistently. Sales are great, but understanding why you're using what you're using is so much more important to us.

SPEAKER_00 39:03

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you also have a giveaway for our listeners. Can you tell us about the product that we'll be giving away?

SPEAKER_03 39:11

Okay. So the listeners that are lucky enough to win this giveaway are going to get the AMPM duo, three-month supply. So you can get to the start of seeing results, right? Big thing that we learned from the clinical study is that three months is when you start to see visible results because it's based on how fast your hair grows, about a half inch a month. The AMPM duo, what you're going to do is when you wake up in the morning, you're going to use to the root serum directly on the scalp. And then at night, what we have just come out with is called Good Night Gray. Good night gray is a three-part system that is in one serum. And so that is going to be our patented melanine complex for pigment preservation. It's also going to block the cortisol receptors in our scalp. And then lastly, it has something to slow age-related hair shedding and thinning by way of a DHT blocker. So it is really, in my opinion, the trifecta as a tricologist. But like Stacey mentioned, massage is key. Yes. After application, please get in there, stimulate that blood circulation. But keep in mind, you gotta have the fuel as well. So whether that's from food or from not today, crack.

SPEAKER_00 40:17

Right. I love that. Oh gosh, that sounds so good. There's something about that ritual, right? Of like massaging into your skin with serum and then extending it to your scalp. I feel like that that's not just physical beauty there. That's also like mental spiritual filling, you know? So thank you. Thank you so much. I learned so much. You guys were wonderful. We will be in touch and we'll speak soon. Absolutely. Thank you, Stacy.

SPEAKER_02 40:45

Thank you, everyone. Great to meet you.

SPEAKER_00 40:46

Bye. Wow. Did you learn something about your hair? My God, I feel like I'm 40 years old and I'm just learning about this stuff now. If you want to enter to win a raise AM plus PM duo, that's a three-month supply of the To the Root Scalp Serum and a three-month supply of the good night gray overnight scalp serum. You just need to head to the link in the show notes. And honestly, I would really love to hear from you on this one. Are there changes happening in your body that you feel like nobody is talking about? Or products that you're curious about, or experts that you want me to interview? This show is for you. So let's make it about what you want to talk about. And thank you to that listener who reached out to me to ask me for an episode like this. Send me a DM or email me at stacy at stacy hudson.com. Thank you so much for being here with me today and learning with me. I will see you next time in the next phase.