The Dap and A Hug Podcast

Tap and A Hug | Victor Vazquez | The Three Awakenings | The Dap and A Hug Podcast

• Sadarro Chisholm

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🥋❤️💯 Special thanks to Coach Joey — for everything you do for us on and off the mats. OSS.

In this episode, Victor Vazquez shares a powerful story of transformation, growth, and self-discovery.

He opens with a unique perspective on jiu-jitsu — not just as something often compared to chess, but as a Rubik’s Cube, where every movement requires patience, problem-solving, and the ability to approach situations from multiple angles.

Growing up in the South Bronx surrounded by gang culture, Victor reflects on how early influences and decisions led him down a difficult path, including time in a youthful offender program and incarceration. He speaks on the reality of navigating life with a felony and how it can impact opportunities in education, careers, and beyond.

While in prison, Victor experienced a spiritual awakening that led him to study philosophy and religion, changing his perspective on life and identity.

After his release, he committed himself to education — earning his GED, completing his bachelor’s in behavioral science, continuing through his master’s program, and now working toward his PhD.

The conversation also explores his travels across the world — from Europe to Africa to the desert — and how moments of stillness, darkness, and stargazing led to deeper discussions around mental health, reflection, and awareness.

Through jiu-jitsu, Victor describes entering his third awakening — a martial journey centered on discipline, patience, and control.

We also discuss the reality of rebuilding after incarceration. While resources, programs, and support systems exist, true change ultimately comes down to accountability and effort.

The episode closes with meaningful advice for anyone navigating a difficult season or standing at a crossroads in life.

💯 This is a story about growth, responsibility, and the power to change your direction — no matter where you start.

Peace and Love at The Dap and A Hug

SPEAKER_01

For a fact, bro. Oh on Easter Sunday, I went to my parents' house, right? I saw a bunch of pictures of me. Like movies at the beach and shit.

SPEAKER_02

Oh man.

SPEAKER_01

I was happy as it though. I didn't give a damn.

SPEAKER_00

You like at that moment was happy, or just you looked at pictures and said, Man, I was a happy kid.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I didn't give a damn about my 20s. This is when I got older, it started putting them more weight, I guess.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, so you so I mean when you were when you were younger, it didn't really bother you as much.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's when I got older, I got more chunkier. Oh, and then I think that's one of the fact when I went my diet wasn't the best. Oh, okay, okay, okay, yeah. That might have had something to do with it too. I just wanted to correct that because I didn't wear a t-shirt all the time, like I was thinking. I don't know why I remembered it like that. I remember one time I did.

SPEAKER_00

I think because a lot of times the a lot of times the memories are a little bit bleak when you're growing up, and then when you get older, you have that that uh that you know that idea like, oh man, I'm a little embarrassed about this as you're older. And then you think that it came from childhood, but it actually probably evolves later on. Because if you seen just if you seen yourself and saw yourself that at that moment, it's uh maybe I wasn't so I might edit this out.

SPEAKER_01

But the one time that I do remember having a t-shirt on in the pool, I started thinking about Freddie Cruz. Steve helped me out he called me down, man. I was like, we was at somebody's house ahead of the pool, though. I started thinking about a nightmare ahead about Freddie, though. Man, uh yeah, he was like getting the pool, you'll be you'll feel better. So I mean, I guess I need to keep my t shirt blowing up.

SPEAKER_00

I how would people say you drink some water? You feel better. Get it in the pool, you'll feel better. That just means you whatever you're on is just gonna mean you're a wet person intoxicated. It's actually dangerous.

SPEAKER_01

True, and then with coffee too, like you're still gonna have the alcohol in your system and stuff. It may give you a little more the caffeine is obviously gonna give you the energy or whatever.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's a bad mix though, because it'll just keep you up too. But the thing is, like, there's when you have intoxicants, it's nothing you can do, it's just time. It's in your blood, it's in your system, it's in your blood. You know, it's not it ain't going nowhere, man. You know, alcohol you can find in your blood and all that. You know, that's why some that's why they a lot of times they sometimes they'll you know inject blood out of you.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, man. Alright, so bro, I was just thinking about how the hell I jumped the podcast, I was talking about you. Now, so when I say the word Rubik's Q, yeah, uh, what comes to mind?

SPEAKER_00

For me, uh for me Rubik's Q is pro I think problem solving right away. And and like we were talking about in the gym, um when I talk about when we um when we when you hear when you read about jujitsu a lot, I always see like jujitsu is like a puzzle. Um which I agree. Um, especially if you do comp you you know, you'll when you do the competition, you'll realize you'll realize some things. Um we can get into that later, but um, as far as the Rubik's cube, you for me it was I I I noticed that rolling. And then you can be having a dominant role, right? Tuck the person down, you're in a dominant position with the side control mount, and now you're working on keeping the person in that position or going into all right, let's start going for a submission, right? And then you start going for that submission. But if you're not careful, you can just make the slightest move, and next thing you know, you're in the bottom. The person's now in a dominant position, and then now you're in your guard or something like that. And um, like it said going back to what Joey said the other day, and he was talking, he and he was equating uh, you know, um jujitsu in life. Like you can be in the bottom one, the very you can be at the top, everything's going good for you, and it's just that one, you know, days things are just not going well, right? And and it can and that can happen, it can be for a few days, maybe life is just taking a turn right now. And that's the Rubik's cue for me. It's like, yeah, I got this going. I'm almost there, almost there. And that slight little turn, maybe you start right back all over again, right? So that's how I that's how I um describe some the jujitsu sometimes like the Rubik's Q. Because I I I can, you know, I've been we we've been in the positions rolling and next, you know, like, yeah, I'm doing, I'm here, I'm here, I'm here. And like, damn, you know, now I'm on the ground. Here goes a reset, stall over. Or even trying to pass someone's guard. Like, like me and William was rolling on open mat, and um now grab started from his feet, grab his feet, put him down, and I'm now trying to pass his guard. And he ends up grabbing my legs, and I pull my leg up, I get out of it, now I reset. All right, stall over, let's go. So that's why I say like a Rubik's cube.

SPEAKER_01

So that reminded me of what Ken said on the podcast. Man, he'll record it. He was saying whenever Coach, uh Coach Joey puffed his single ex or the butterfly. He get up out of that, man. He don't want no problems with it. That made me think about that.

SPEAKER_00

Um, thank you for being here. Yeah, appreciate it, man. Thank you for having me back. I know I was we was a press press for time during the mornings, but we make it work. So appreciate you for the invite again.

SPEAKER_01

Also, man, I appreciate the grace.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_01

Um so when it you said the Rubic Cube, right? Because a lot of people talk about it like they had a metaphor or a simile of it being like chess. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I feel like you took it to another level with the yeah, it is and it's definitely like chess as well, because you know, you have sometimes you gotta just you gotta make a sacrifice and you use that little pawn for bait, you know. You might have to. And the same thing for jiu-jitsu, you might have to bait them into. I mean, a lot of sports are like that, boxes do the same thing. So yeah, you gotta set up a trap, you know. And I and like give you, I was rolling with Ken one day, one side of the open mat. And I should have known better. He's a brown belt, so I don't know why I jumped. I just I was it was excitement, and that's another thing. Control controlling yourself and don't get too excited. Ken let me pass because it was as soon as I did what I did. He was like in side control, and I went to pass. But as soon as I went to pass, next thing I was in the air, legs going this way, arm going that way, and pow! It's like and I should have known better because this is exactly what he said. When he got up top, he was like, uh he was like white belt, um, but he was like rookie move or something like that. Something like that. You know, white belt no. It was funny. I know I laughed after it. And then he said, he basically gave me, he basically baited me in. And I should have had known better. He's a brown belt. Like, why would it, why would he, why would he release his legs open and half guard and let me pass? He I should have known he was up to something. And I was sneaky with that. Yeah, I was too excited, uh, overcommitted, and next to and you know, uh, I was in that position. Um, you know, the Rubik's Q turned the other way for me. I had to start again and try to figure it out. But that's why that's what I said. It's like a game of chess as well, as you read. And that's what he did. He baited me and I went for it, you know.

SPEAKER_01

So hey bro. Um, the last conversation we had, I learned some in the gym. Interesting things. Oh, yeah. Can you talk a little bit about like your upbringing as far as as much as you're willing to share on that?

SPEAKER_00

Uh like like um as far as like like family or just uh just like growing up in where I'm from?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, just the things, the trials and tribulations.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, yeah. No, that ain't worried. Um we spoke about that. Um, yeah, I grew up in uh South Bronx, and called it the Mount Haven area of the Bronx. Um wasn't definitely not the best area to grow up in. But it was what it was for us, you know. I was home for us. Um yeah, you know, I grew up with my mother, my father in the home, my brother, my grandmother was there for a little bit. But it wasn't, it was, it was, it was uh like I told you, like I told you this when we were talking about yesterday, it was uh, you know, the area at the time doesn't look like it looks now. Like this this is I don't believe I believe it was Mayor Denkins when they started building the homes. I don't really remember too much, but they started turning in these empty lots because our neighborhoods used to have like empty lots. And you ever seen kids playing in abandoned cars and flipping on old mattresses? That was us. And they had all these abandoned lots. You know, that's what I remember growing up. Now it's like there's homes there, but it wasn't like that, you know, until our teen until closer to our teens. But our neighborhood um became in the early 90s, uh um it was like I mean in New York always had the gang culture, but in the early 90s it was new new gangs that started to hit and um it kind of um took over the neighborhood, so to speak. Um so you know, we were you know, we were um exposed to all this stuff. And we don't really know, I mean, growing up you don't really know what these are. Like you see movies and things like that, but it doesn't, it doesn't, you know, I get to actually see it in real life is not the same, like to experience it is not the same. So um, you know, so you know, as a young, as a young, as a young teenager end up joining the game, and not because for protection or anything like that, because we had all of we had, you know, for our friends, we protect each other growing up and things like that. It was just something to do. It was there. So it's like, you know, join them, you know. This is what's in our environment right now. So, you know, that's let's be a part of it. Um, so we're doing, you know, I don't want to not put out there what gang it was, but we all, you know, a lot of us joined these gangs, and then in those gangs, you know, you have to do certain things and you get you, you know, there's rankings and stuff like that. Um long story short, it didn't put me in a good place in my life. Um because I got incarcerated, a lot of it largely due to being affiliated. Um, and I think when I was in my during my incarceration was probably like I had this like uh profound like spiritual enlightenment. So um it was this, you know, like I was telling you, while I was there, I was uh doing stuff I was doing in the street, but just in jail, just in prison. Um and I met some I met a guy there who was who I was fascinated about because uh like I said, he knew seven languages and things like that. And um there began my journey of of like studying philosophy and religion, and then I gained a deeper insight about life, I started thinking totally different. Um and then uh wanted to educate myself, and that's when I just started to you know get a G earn a GD. Um go into after that, got my bachelor's in behavioral science, went into my master's and now the uh the PhD. But at first, you know, I would say those are awakenings because everyone has an awakening. For me, I had the when I was incarcerated, I had this spiritual awakening, and then actually the educational awakening after that. Um, so now I have the martial skills awakening. So, but yeah, those are you know, it was it was tough times, it was rough, but I think the the you can see like the resiliency of a person like in the story. Like I told you I was writing a book, and and in the book, I start talking about early life in the Bronx, and then you know, um moving into those areas and then like you know, the outcome from uh what I was doing to where I'm at today. Um, and a lot of people could attest to that. And you see in your in your Instagram somebody left a little comment in the bottom, and that person was knows who I am and knows like the stuff that I've been through and stuff like that. So um, but yeah, it was so it's it was tough, it was rough, but you know, um there's some sometimes you need that shock. Like for me, it was like incarceration as I at the time was like, you know, you don't mind it wants to be in there, but then I when when I go back and look at it, I'm like, man, that was a blessing to actually have to go through that and come and make it out of that because some people don't.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_00

You know, it is the the rate of people going in and out of prison, especially for minorities, is high.

SPEAKER_01

Is that uh recidivism?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's what you said before. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And I was like, man, you kind of you beat it. You know what I'm saying? It made you like some people get caught into it like in a cycle, man, but you really overcame it, man.

SPEAKER_00

I have an uncle who did that in and out of prisons for yeah, for from a young age. So adult, I don't mean I haven't even seen him for years, but my uncle was in and out of prison. I actually seen him. I was in, I was in, I was transported to a different prison, and he was being released. I don't know how he's been in jail for years, so I don't know. That was he cried. I didn't, you know, I didn't cry at the time because I'm really used to him being in those positions. I never actually seen it to that time. Like I've been to mostly city prisons, but this time I hit I hit the state penitentiary, so it's different. And then when I'm coming out of I'm in transit going to a different prison, and he is he's he's being released, so he's getting closer to the city.

SPEAKER_01

That's what it had to be emotional for him seeing his nephew going in and hit him.

SPEAKER_00

It was, it was, it was, it was. So when I'm I'm coming out, mind you, first of all, when I'm in in the cafeteria, I'm eating breakfast. I don't know, it was breakfast or I don't remember. But I saw two of my friends I ain't see since I was in Carson. And they had just got in there, and these are close friends. Um one of them is one of them was one of them was actually uh murdered three years after his release, when he rests in peace. Um, but I seen both of them in there, and and I was excited to see them. And then one of them saw me and he ran back to get the other fan. I didn't know who he was gonna get because I didn't see him yet. And then, you know, he came out and I'm like, oh, like it was uh, and then um they're talking to me and was like, yeah, I'm I'm getting close to coming out right now, so they're bringing me to a different prison or whatever. And he was they was like, oh, you know, we show each other love, and then I left on the way out. My uncle's coming in, and I'm walking, he don't see me. So uh um, I'm like, uh I call his name out, and then he turns and he says, My my middle name, because a lot of people don't know my middle name. Only family goes but calls me by my middle name, and then he comes off the line and the correction officers, you know, yelling at him and stuff right there. So I come off the line, we give each other a hug and stuff like that. And he said, What the what you know, what you doing in here, what you doing now? I was like, and I was like, come on, he knew what I was doing. So it was gonna happen eventually. Like it, it was I you know when you're doing certain things in in the in the neighborhood, you don't want it to happen, but you know it's gonna come. Yeah, but one though one thing you don't think about coming is is one thing I I can remember not thinking about is death. Doing these things, doing what we were doing, I didn't think about death. I thought about incarceration all the time. Because because you try to avoid that, which the death part, you you don't really think about it. Like you don't think it can happen to you at that, you know. So we're not thinking about that. But when I seen him, you know, he cried or then he told me to meet him in the yard uh the next day. I couldn't leave yet because I was still in intake, so I had to wait to see I wait to see a nurse and stuff. And then he um, but so that day I didn't see him, but the next day he called him for transit, so I never got to see him in the yard. I got to see some of his people, and you know, he, you know, they uh I was shooting basketball in the yard, and his people walked up to me and then they started talking to me and said, Your uncle, you know, and said he loves you and all that other stuff. So and then I ended up seeing him later when I was released, so yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I remember one of my uncles, he went to uh jail for shooting one of my other uncles. Shot his own damn brother, though. I'll never forget that shit. Uh that shit was hilarious. Oh, man. Like, anyway. Shout out to California circle. Um you you live in California, bro, and uh you've been traveling, you know, you told me a lot about like places you don't travel, man. It was an experience. Like you share some of the places, especially by the um, please make sure you share the desert situation.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll share the desert situation. I'm wife probably gonna be a little mad because she didn't know I went there. It was a spiritual thing.

SPEAKER_01

I want you to be in a doghouse, though.

SPEAKER_00

I've always I I'm always there. I think that's the you know, when you husband, you know, you're always wrong, right? Husbands is never right. But you know, life the wife know behind the you know, behind in the back of their head, the back of their mind, they know that the husband.

SPEAKER_01

I was I was engaged, I was engaged for a brief period of time.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, man.

SPEAKER_01

But go ahead.

SPEAKER_00

I'm gonna tell you what I learned from one of the guys about this, what you just said. So, yeah, I went to I traveled the world. I had a group of friends, I still have the group of friends that we traveled a lot. I'm actually going to Brazil with them in November. I'm definitely hitting the mats over. November what? This year. I don't know the date. I don't know the date, but I'm definitely going to Brazil. It's this year in November, and I told Joey about it. I said I'm definitely. He said, You're gonna train? I said, Yeah, of course I'm gonna hit those mats. Definitely. I wanna see what it's about. So I'm excited about doing that because I'm pretty sure I'm gonna have to go to the rough parts of Brazil to get some roles in.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_00

I don't think they're gonna be in like the tourist areas, so I'm probably gonna have to go to areas where, but I'm not, I'll do it anyway wherever I travel.

SPEAKER_01

Make sure you got your Portuguese down.

SPEAKER_00

Uh I think it's close to Spanish, I guess. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01

Correct way to tap was say tap verbally.

SPEAKER_00

Tap and tap tap tap tap as university.

SPEAKER_01

But you know what, man? I was training for a couple months before I learned that you can tap with your foot. I didn't even know that. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You gotta, you know.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I I I know that from just watching like, you know, reels and and it ain't like I never watched it either, but I just never picked up on that person. Yeah, but that's what that's I mean, the refs cash on those things. So sometimes it's hard for the audience to see the tap because sometimes the ref is you know knows what to look for. Okay, your travels, bro. Yeah, so we traveled a lot of places, I think. Yeah, no, we're all good. Um, we traveled a lot of places. When I was see, when we were young, we used to do a lot of clubs, a lot of clubs in New York, and you know, we spent a lot of money in the clubs, it ain't cheap. But then, you know, after a certain age, you're like, I'm not doing this no more. And um, me, my wife, and our friends, we was like, you know, we can just travel for the amount of money we spent. So, you know, we started going to uh some of them already traveling. I have friends that were already traveling. Um, I have um we have one, we have a friend, um, you know, and they're more they're more like family, shall I say, because we know each other for years already. So, but you know, she's a flight attendant, she's been doing it for years, so she's been everywhere. Yeah, and you know, shout out to her. Um, her name is Coco. Uh she's from uh from New York, but she lives in Atlanta, and she travels everywhere. So, and then she does our itineraries and stuff when we travel, and she's like meticulous with it too. Um, but we went to, I think our I remember where was our first trip? I think our first trip was Greece. And then we went to Mikono's Athens. Um, and I we we walk to towns. We don't, we don't go, we're not in the tourist spots and stuff like that. We actually walk through the towns. Yeah, immerse yourself into the coastal. Yeah, we immerse ourselves into the coastal stuff like that, bro. You know what it is walking by and we was in Santorini seeing the sunset on the Mediterranean. Like on the top of this, it's called Sunset Bar. Went up there. You can see the Mediterranean. See, the sun looks like it's in the palm of your hands. Um, so we went out to Greece, we went to Athens. Athens has a lot of you know historical things. Um went out to me and my wife alone went to um to uh uh Italy. And we still we stood directly across the street from the Vatican. And uh when I went to the Vatican, I went there and I like to talk to the I like to, and since I like talking about religion, I stopped and talked to the people about it. So I and I talked to a priest that was in the Vatican. I and I I talked to, I believe it's a monk. You know, he was dressed in brown with a brown suit, little, little uh rope tie right here.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think that might be a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00

I don't know what they're I don't know what they're called, but I I think they're monks. I don't know. I'm not thinking like the Tibetan monks or nothing like that, but I don't know if they're called monks, but um got to talk to got to talk to them and we you know got to talk about spirituality and religion and stuff like that. And nice conversations, it ain't debates, it's just conversations.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um then I went to uh I went to Egypt, and Egypt was a very good experience because in Egypt I got to see some uh you know the pyramids and things like that. Obviously, you know, mummies. Um they had a they had a they had one mummy in this uh uh temperature controlled glass, and it's just like it's like it was you just like in awe to see all of this, right? And this is stuff that we read about growing up, and like I'm actually seeing that now. Time out.

SPEAKER_01

What was the energy like when you walked into the pyramid?

SPEAKER_00

Did it feel like well you can't get into the Gaza ones, the big ones, yeah, right? But there's small pyramids you can go into. I remember we had to crawl into one, and this is this time. I don't like I didn't like tight spaces and now I'm okay with it.

SPEAKER_01

But I didn't like Judicially help with that, right?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, definitely. And I'll tell I'll tell you a story about that later. Because I was traveling and I almost caught anxiety on the train because it was so packed. And it was in uh I think we were in Europe somewhere. But um I was uh I went we're going to the pyramid and there's a group of us, about seven of us walking. Some of them didn't want to. Um and we go, we have to crawl. Like this, he said it's gonna be a little bit of a crawl, and you like squatting down, crawling, and this base is just, you know, the wall. Like, you ain't got much room to move. And then we get when we get to the bottom, then we can stand. And then it's just like I don't know if there's I can't say it's like I'm not like some people say you feel energy over there. I didn't I can't say I felt energy in in in those places that's as that I guess like um that is unusual. I have I didn't feel anything like that. The only thing you do feel is like I felt like I was just amazed because this is stuff that I read about, stuff that I see on TV, you know. Uh uh shout out to my boy Richard, Ancient Aliens, he likes the show. You see it on stuff like that. So I was like, I'm here now. And then we saw a tomb, and the tomb was like, I can't even describe how far down it was. But there was no, like, it was a bunch of lights, and then this tomb was the lights were shining on this tomb, and it was just way down there, and it was just like a uh a tomb down there. I guess you know, there was they have a there was a body in it, but it was no, we couldn't go down there and see it. But we looking at it, I'm like, no way, that's crazy. Y'all want to see a dead body? Yeah, that's exactly what the guy did. But that's exactly what you know he took us to see. But then there's something else that he showed us, and this was pretty intelligent, and the like the the intelligence of the people at that time is crazy. That's all good, right? So we ended up we in, we get we work, we walk further into the into the pyramid, and he and there's a wall. You can't see nothing on the wall. So the he takes a flashlight and he stands in the corner one and goes like this. All you see is hieroglyphics now.

SPEAKER_01

Nice.

SPEAKER_00

But you can't see nothing when he takes the flashlight away. But when he puts the flashlight back on, even if he stands with the flashlight, this you couldn't see nothing. He pointed on an angle, and he said, and then he should we can see the hieroglyphics, but then he said, in a in uh um, guess when the sun is in a certain position, you can see all of that. Brother. And now it's just like that's crazy.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, that's the that's one of the moments right there.

SPEAKER_00

How did that, I mean, what I I was I'm trying to read it. So I was like, you see an Egyptian carrying something, a snake, an alligator, and like, you know, like how do they even know what this this like this means? First of all, how do how do you know, because you have uh what they call linguists that study different languages and languages and things like that? And I'm like, how do they even know what this means? Like you would to know what this means, like I don't study that science, I never looked into it, but it's like you don't like how do you know? Like you have to be for like you didn't sit with somebody from that time to decipher all of this. Like, how so how do we even know what that means?

SPEAKER_01

Anybody know a linguistic uh contact me, send me a DM. I want to get them on a podcast.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I don't I never look, I never really you know dove into the sciences on like earlier languages like that.

SPEAKER_01

I bet that's like a wild different commitment being a linguistic it has to be.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, it's just like they like the people who did that, those those have meanings, and they can the people who wrote them could not know what they mean. It's like us reading a book today. Like they can read it, they're like, oh yeah, this means this is like it's just crazy, like when you see it. So um, but the spiritual experience happens is when you go to the you can feel it, the energy in the in the with the religious places. So when you start going to like the the um areas like uh the old churches, like the Coptic churches and things of the old places like that, when you're going close to like the mosque, and it's a whole different vibe over there. I have I have friends cry just from, you know, I've been in the mosque before, but I had I had friends that would travel with me cry when they hear when they hear you know the reciting of religious scriptures. The energy is different. Same thing in the Coptic church, like when when you hear them, it's it's not singing, it's like chanting. And it's just it's like vibration, yeah. And it's just different energy. You can feel you can feel the vibrate, the vibe, the vibration. It gives you goosebumps.

SPEAKER_01

And let me ask you this real quick, because you had said that one guy that you met that could speak seven different languages, he could speak Arabic, right? Yeah, I had I don't know if it was a linguistic I heard on the podcast, but somebody was talking about how like because of the way like they the dialect they use, it it it brings about different vibrations than what we use in the world. So they might be more competitive.

SPEAKER_00

Arabic Arabic using all palettes of the mouth, it's not like other languages, not even Hebrew, but they sister what they call sister languages. They'll Hebrew, Arabic, Aramaic, and Syriac are related languages. So they have words, they all have some of them share the same words. Like the Hebrew language has some Arabic letters in there, and then and so does the Aramaic and Syriac. But and they and they like I said, they all have uh they share some consonants, they have um some words that are the same, right? Um, but when um the Arabic language uses all palates of the mouth, it uses the tongue, back of the throat, the top of your mouth, the nasal uses the name. So it's different. So when you're reciting certain things, uh spiritual scriptures, not just not just the language. The language is the Arabic is is is what they call um a romantic language, like Spanish, Latin. It's part of the romance languages, right? But um, but when you're chanting, when you're reciting, is these rhythms, it's like long humps, like hmm, or um, or even just longation of some words and words together that it creates this this this vibrant feeling. And it's just like you can it'll give you chills, like if you just hear it recited. Some people that's some people break to tears not even knowing the meaning. Something to the vibrations, it could be like it really is, right? It could be talking about uh war, right? It could be it could be something talking about war, but sounds so beautiful. You don't know what it's saying, but it sounds so beautiful, right? It's like some like I I was reading about birds one time, and it says, some birds and you hear them in the morning chirping, sounds beautiful, but it's a warning to other birds. You don't I I didn't know that. It sounds amazing, but to other birds, it's like, oh, we can't go over there. Um they about they're lit over there. Let's not bother them, right? So it's this, you know, you things they things could things could have beauty, and you're not even understanding, not even understanding a word of it. You get what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01

And I'm not surprised about how like we lose languages, they get dead out because look at like cursive. Yeah, we don't even use that anymore. You know what I'm saying? We don't even use it anymore.

SPEAKER_00

We don't use crevices, it's a dead, it's a dead art right now. So my kids, our kids don't even know how to write cursive. Yeah, I taught my daughter a little bit, but yeah, and I I I try to teach mine, but I wasn't so good at it either. I can do it, but I'm not too good at it. I'm a good artist too, but I when it comes to that, I I can write it, but I'm not flow. Like my grandmother is amazing with it. Like, I think she that's all she does. I think when she writes, she only writes in cursive. Nice, yeah. And can you give a kid a cursive thing and ask them to read it? It's like hieroglyphics. I don't know what this says. You know, like give a kid today a school that doesn't know cursive, you know, and give right, just write a paragraph and tell them to read it. Watch how difficult it's gonna be for him to read it.

SPEAKER_01

If you think about it on a certain level, the uh emojis are kind of like modern day hieroglyphics.

SPEAKER_00

We're using them in universities now. Like you send an email, you send professional emails with emojis now. Thumbs up, you know, it's changed it, man. The digital world, man, technology.

SPEAKER_01

So you uh I honestly believe you're doing the lowest work, man.

SPEAKER_00

Oh try. I don't I don't I don't feel that way, but you know, some people, some people say, but you know, I appreciate that. You know, I don't really I don't feel like I am, but I'm just acknowledging it, man.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. I'm giving you a power right now, brother, man, because because of like your upbringing and everything, it's it's like that's part of your roots, right? Yeah, and right now you're kind of branching out to help the young the youth right now, yeah, to help get them on track and keep them straight. So thank you.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01

Appreciate the acknowledgement. Yeah, man, you're actually out here saving people, bro. Appreciate that. That's what I'm talking about, though, about healing, healing and helping people, man, especially the future. Some powerful stuff. What about the uh so what was it about the desert?

SPEAKER_00

So the desert, I hadn't met a Bedwin in the desert. Um, actually at the um at the pyramids with the of of Giza, or Geyser, whatever, however you pronounce it, but the big pyramid. And I was climbing, and I was supposed to climb on the pyramid. Allegedly. Yeah, I don't think I don't think one of them, one of them uh I don't think one of those bricks fit in this room. There's no way, but but I was climbing them and I sat on top just to take a picture. And it's like you gotta get down, you gotta get down. So I come down. Um dance on walking. Um, and then and and I I had studied Arabic for for about two years, so um he was, and I I can't say I'm I can't really speak to somebody, but if I catch words, I know what the person is saying a little bit. Yeah, so he was saying something in in Arabic, and I said I answered him back in English, and he starts laughing. And then um he's like, um, we start walking, and then he does uh the guy we have a tour, we have like a tour guy with us, and he speaks both languages. So he's he's translating what the guy's saying because he sometimes the they so Arabic, even though you know they speak it in Africa, they speak it in Egypt, they speak it in the Middle East, but the dialects are different. So some so some of the words don't translate the same, right? So he's breaking, he's explaining something to me. So I told him that I wanted to. He said, uh, I want I told he said he this is where he's like where he stays. And then they got tents and stuff like that. They have you know camels and and goats. I said, I want to uh I want to try to um spend an you know spend a day, like not a day, but a few hours when he was like, Well, they don't need to come at night. And I was like, come at night. So how long I was in the desert at night? So I'm thinking like scorpions in the sand and stuff like that. Like, you know, desert bandits. I don't know what's in the desert.

SPEAKER_01

Arabia, yeah, no, but no, they have security in the desert.

SPEAKER_00

So when when tourists go to the desert, look at pyramids, they have security there with armed weapons and stuff like that. So the guy did say there was desert, they have desert bandits too. Was it super cold at night? Nah, it was beautiful. It was a breeze, it was amazing. It was like spring over here. But so I say it wasn't hot, it was hot in the day, not in the night. Night was nice and cool. But what's the but there's no street lights. So when you go there and you just look at the stars, yeah, it'll put you in tears. And the moon is just lighting up the desert, like you can see, and there's no street lights, it's just like the moon and the stars just lighting up the desert. And it's it's just crazy because like you know, just looking at it is like you I've never seen so many stars before. Never seen so many stars before. Man, it puts you in tears if you just look up and and it's at a sky where there's no artificial lights. It's actually a South American country. I don't really remember the name. I was reading an article uh last week that is by law, at a certain time, all artificial lights have to be off. I don't remember it. You can probably look it up. Uh wish I knew, but that country, they call it, they have a they have their own night gazing. And yeah, and they and that's part of that's part of their uh it's part of their mental health. Uh what are you gonna say, son?

SPEAKER_01

Well, I was gonna say, yeah, if they started implementing that over here, they would probably prevent the possibility of a martial law down the road. But I don't know nothing.

SPEAKER_00

So I say that that, you know, just sitting there gazing at the stars. Like it's just now you think of I I start to think about the people, you know, in ancient times that used to walk the desert, and those great thinkers, like I was telling you Aristotle and uh you know Plato, uh you have uh other people in the Middle East, like uh Ghazali and stuff like that, wouldn't they? You know, things that they wrote about, like they were super intelligent, and that's what they did. Spend well, you know, like those great thinkers from ancient times, yeah. They would spend time. Yeah, they were they were dark-skinned fellows too, weren't they? Yeah, it's possible. The ripped pictures, man.

SPEAKER_01

They were you know eye complexion, man. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I seen one in the I seen one, I seen one in the church. I seen a picture of St. Paul. I'm St. Paul, St. Mark. Yeah, tell the people painting. I saw people in the in the comedy church.

SPEAKER_01

Before we move on, I'm gonna forget Uruguay.

SPEAKER_00

That's what that's what it is. Uruguay. South America, right? Uruguay.

SPEAKER_01

Uruguay.

SPEAKER_00

So by law they turn the lights off, right?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I didn't I read that article because I was reading a I was reading, I have a psych, I'm part of like this psychology club, and I was reading an article, and it was that article was talking about um mental health and the night and and you know, and the stars and stuff like that. So um and then you know, that's part of their law. It's just crazy. Never mind. It's talking about civil law dominance and stuff. Oh no.

SPEAKER_01

None of them about the uh yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I'll get the article for you. I have it saved in my phone.

SPEAKER_01

Matter of fact, let me see something.

SPEAKER_00

I think I saved it in my book.

SPEAKER_01

No light pollution. I didn't even put that in.

SPEAKER_00

I think I have it saved in my in my Apple books. I got it right here, brother. My bad. I ain't even put the all right.

SPEAKER_01

Hold on. But uh, yeah, we can just edit this out if we need to. Um Chile.

SPEAKER_00

Chili, that's it. Yeah, chili. That was it. It was chili, and I I do have it in my book. I got to go see that. It was chili, guys. I can send you the article if you like. Um, I have it. I do, I think I do have it in my books, man. But Norma Luminisa. Ah, I don't see it now. Luminisa. Luminisa. Oh, yeah. So Norma Luminisa. Yeah, I think that's the name of the the country. I think it was, I think it is them, yeah. That is them. But I have an article of, you know, this this psychology, you know, things now call the night, they call it like the uh the night sky connectedness.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

You know, and a lot of now people, psychologists are starting to use this as a form of of therapy, you know. So then they're starting to write about these things now. So so the you know, these this research on it is starting to expand now. So that's so important, man.

SPEAKER_01

We have we have to get back to our primal self, man. To you, man. It is important, and it is important for for humans to pendulum swing towards AR and the screens, but yeah, we we pushing back the other way too, though. At the same time, trying to find that value.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, we well, we want to, we we still want to keep those traditions. Like we want to keep those traditions. That's what and that's what and that's what religion does too for people. It keeps them, it keeps that old tradition. Um, but you know, the new tech, you know, technology, like you say, is it could do great things. Uh like now, you don't need to walk around with it, you know, if you want to your scriptures, even you know, you can have it right on your phone now. And you know, if you want to read a daily passage, you can get it right on your phone. That's the good thing about these things. Even schooling, you know, you can now do the school online. I sit in the movie theater doing one of my course materials in the movie theater. So, you know, that's it's a great benefit.

SPEAKER_01

It really is. Yeah. It really is, man. Are you Muslim? Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_01

Word, yes, sir. So um, you're going to Brazil, dog. That's all I'm saying.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah, I'm going to Brazil in November.

SPEAKER_01

My birthday the 11th of November, dog. Really? So if you're down there on the 11th, man, like, I don't know, send me a damn postcard or something.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I send you a postcard from Brazil. I get I'll I'll I'll get a roll in for you on your birthday. I'll shoot. I'll get a good roll in for your birthday.

SPEAKER_01

Hey, you know, uh, you know who uh I hope I'm mispronounced his name, uh, Bass Rutin. Never heard him. Uh he got this like VO2 Max thing that's supposed to help with endurance. You was talking about how you noticed your endurance was like real good at the last open match. Yeah, my last open, my last open mat.

SPEAKER_00

And I haven't been an open mat in a long time. Uh and I hate I don't like to miss open mats. I I try to catch at least two a month, though. It's been a while since I had open mats. But my last mat, my open mat on Monday when we had that. Um, yeah, I did I realized I didn't need much rest in between and rolls, and I was was I was pretty surprised because sometimes I like to take a little break, but I just you know I was going. And uh I didn't need any much of a break, but my endurance was was doing really good. So um glad to hit it, bro. Yeah. I know obviously you get your little break in between the rolls, like when the rolls, you know, five minutes, and you got that little, I think that's a I don't know how many seconds or whatever it is. I don't even keep track, but I want to hear the bell means go. Beep the heck five minute rolls. Yeah, five minute rolls, and I think I don't know, I don't know if it's a minute break or something like that, or 30 seconds or something, something like that.

SPEAKER_01

I think it was a minute.

SPEAKER_00

But I don't pay no mind to it. I just hear the I know the beep means go. You know, and the other beep means stop.

SPEAKER_01

You know what I love, man? Like, like the moments when I go to class, I don't I know I don't even look up at the clock.

SPEAKER_00

I don't watch the clock.

SPEAKER_01

I don't even look at the clock.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I I watch.

SPEAKER_01

Especially like lyric with her mama. Yeah. That's the only time I'm, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00

I I stopped watching the clock. Well, yeah, I mean, I watch my, I'll go look at my phone to see if anybody got text inside it. But I stop watching the clock because, you know, it's like if you're rolling with if you have a difficult role, right? And you look at the clock, you're like, oh man, I got two more minutes left with this guy. It throws you off, man. It's a setback. It's like it throws off your focus, and then you start thinking about that's what you're thinking about, man. I got two more minutes of of this, you know, this guy right here. He's he's precious. It's like rolling with William. You're rolling with, I rolled the William on the open mat. And we had a we had an amazing roll together, man. And and it's like, if you even roll with Ryan, like, man, rolling Ryan and looking, you got two minutes left, and like, I gotta get this big guy off. You know what I'm saying? So it's like I don't pay attention, I just go. You know, I just focus on the tasks in front of me. I'm not worrying about the clock or trying to look at the clock or anything like that because it throws you off. And then, and then I for me, it's like it makes your tasks harder. You know, your train of thought starts to go from what do you need to do in these situations to to time. And I don't want to think about that. So I just go.

SPEAKER_01

I'm gonna switch gears and go back to kind of what we were talking about earlier. Uh was there a moment? I'm sure there was. It might have been a couple, man. But like when you notice like your life would go in two completely different directions.

SPEAKER_00

Reflecting back, you know. Two different directions. Um yeah, it was a moment when I was with my uh my my my not my wife now, my kids' mom. There was a struggle there between um uh changing because I wasn't having a good lifestyle at that moment. I actually went back into into you know doing my doing my thing again that put me in that place. So but then so I it was that moment and then I realized that I couldn't be in this situation no more. Right? So I uh I had to kind of like get myself out of that situation, and it was it was everything, it was it was it was it was the relationship was deteriorating. Um I was doing that on the side. Um we ended up you know separating and then but I was still doing a little bit of what I was doing. And then uh when we separ had separated, I had a friend who I had a fallout with, and he did um some federal time, and we had a fist fight before he went in and before I went in. And we never spoke again. We were really close. Um when he was released, Facebook came out, he found me. And this is how me and my wife me and my wife know each other for since we were nine.

SPEAKER_01

It's a sandbox situation, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

We know each other since we was nine, and then he um he finds me. We start talking, he apologized and saying, man, we were kids, we're teenagers, and that happened like we're adults now, so we keep it going. And then he finds her. So, and I haven't seen her in years, and she was my girlfriend when I was growing up. Um, and then you know, and I always I always I always tell her, I think I I think I blamed her mom for a long time, for a long time. And it wasn't her, you know, I couldn't, you know, now I but I know it's not her mom's fault, it was on me. But when her mother moved out of the bronze because she didn't want her around me, and then from there on things, my life started to just change a little bit. Now I'm more involved in the street. But I think when she was there, kept me from that. So her mom took her there and wanted her with me. And you know, her mom and mom had arguments. You know, they got their older brother to beat me up, try to beat me up one time. So it's a whole story there. But during that time, I'm separated. Um, I'm still doing that. Friend is released. We all meet each other, we all hang out. Um, it wasn't the the stars were lined up for me and Habi together at that point. So I stopped talking to everyone for a little bit and started doing my own little journey. And then two years later, uh he passes from a drug overdose. Yeah. And um was it fentanyl? No, I don't know. Honestly, I don't I don't know.

SPEAKER_01

I mean I'm gonna have to figure that out.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's all good, man. I was talking my hands a lot, so it's not that it's not that. Um, so it was it was not from I don't know what it was from, but I know it was an overdose because I know him and he talks to me. Um my condolences, man. Yeah, yeah, appreciate it, man. It's all good. Did he have kids? Uh he did have one when he was when he passed. Yeah, his kid was really young. My prayers go out too. Um, so he passed, and then we went to the week, and from there we we kind of got together, and then we ended up having, you know, getting married, having a kid. But but that was, I was struggling between and then when I got with her, she said I couldn't do none of that. So she said you get rid of it. Yeah and then I I I started to, and then I forgot I had something on my book bag, and her mom found it. It was in the garage at her mom's house, and I had it in my book bag, and she found it, and I said it was giving it away.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, it was like a we can keep it like uh for um for suspense sake uh in the sake of the movie. What's the what's the name of the movie, man? Uh Pulp Fiction, like the golden the case was in the briefcase. Pulp fiction was like the gold glow. I know I seen the movie, but I don't remember the word of it.

SPEAKER_00

I don't remember.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, oh, wait. You know, Marcella was named Marcello or whoever he was working for. I know he, I know he had uh I forgot what it was, but yeah, but um um she had found it was only marijuana, but it was you know it was really good stuff.

SPEAKER_00

And it was my last of it, so I was like, I gotta get rid of it. So I gave it to somebody, but I was drug I was struggling between that lifestyle um and just wanting to just and you know, knowing that I can't stay on this path because we're just gonna look over to eventually, you know. So, and I was just struggling being staying legit. But, you know, those times, you know, when it's when it's hard to find decent paying jobs, so you're like, nah, I gotta get the extra. So you do stuff like that, you know, and but you don't you don't realize you're jeopardizing yourself for that extra. You can actually have nothing. You know, if you end up in a situation again, you lose everything. Everything. You know, so then everything, the little that you work for, you lose it all. So I was juggling between those two things, like like the life I should be living versus the life I should not be living.

SPEAKER_01

Circling back to what Coach Joey said.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, the ups and downs, right? You're gonna be good for a little while, and then you're gonna have this hard, you might have this hardship. Like, you know, some days is easy, some days is some days are hard. But you know, you um you just you know, you gotta fight, you gotta, you gotta fight through it. You gotta fight through it. You're gonna have some easy, you're gonna have some good times, you're gonna have some bad times. And I think that's what people don't realize. People people have this steady flow of good of great things happening for them, and then you start to forget. For me, I call those, I think those are reminders. But for me, they're reminders. Like there's one this one philosopher said that the world was like created on uh in chaos, like you know, you know, the big bang theory. But he said, but we want to devoid from it. Doesn't make any sense. So the world was created this way, it was created on chaos. Why wouldn't you think there's not gonna be some in your life? You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01

So if you think about it now to the molecular level, it's chaos. Yeah, right. Exactly. We don't see it going on.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, you don't see it going on. Yeah, but you know, but so that's what uh I thought that that was something I when I ran, I was like, Oh, that's that's pretty deep. And I try to, you know, remember those little things and say, hey, you know what? It's hard now, but it'll be okay.

SPEAKER_01

You know, galactical styles, dog. What what did it cost for you to become the man that you are today?

SPEAKER_00

Uh it it's a um effort, man. Just working hard, working hard and putting everything you can and just um you know it's it's I think about this is like especially having kids now, it's like you do you want to like it's your life. Like how do you want your life to be? Like you you can control control what you can and the things you can't, you know, do your best to figure it out. And you know, for me to have for me for for someone to have a decent living life doesn't really cost anything. It'll cost you it'll cost you more to live a lifestyle of you know fast money and you know, hang, you know, you know, women and cars and you know that other stuff, that costs more. Right? First of all, it's expensive, but then you're also risking your your yourself and your freedom to to anything, you know, carceration, you know, possibly being, you know, um your life, you know, you can lose your life. But it's like it doesn't really cost much for you to be a good person, to live a decent life. It's just hard work. And some people don't want hard work. Everybody wants everything, here you go. Just take it. You know, you you want everybody wants to be spoon-fed, but you don't want to work for it. You don't want to go out and get it, you know, to have that honest living. And you know, sometimes it's not gonna be easy to have that honest living. You know, the the good things are harder to achieve than the bad ones, right? So, but everybody wants it so easy, and it's not how it just doesn't work that way, you know? And then people are frustrated with their situation, but that what are you doing to change it? You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01

How'd you put yourself through college?

SPEAKER_00

If you don't mind me asking, I took advance, I took it, I took advantage of the financial aid. Right, right. And got some government stuff that take advantage to take advantage of it if you can. But some sometimes people can't. They're coming out of prison. If you have a felon, you can't get that.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, now we get into an interesting part of the conversation.

SPEAKER_00

As a felon. If you have a felon, if you're if you're a felon, you can't get it. The good thing about my felony was that I was I had a good lawyer, and when I caught my case, I was a juvenile, but I by the time I did the time, I was an adult already. So so basically I did adult time juvenile uh sentence, should I say. Um, but one of the things that New York has is called like a YO status. So it's a youth offender status. So what that does for you is if you if you don't catch another felon, if you come out, you come on parole, you finish the parole, and don't catch another, you don't become a predicate, that youth offender status now seals your felony. So you can still be a police officer, firefighter can still work for the government and stuff like that. So that's what I had on my case. And um, and I say I finished parole and then get arrested again for no crime like that. And then um, so I was able to, you know, move around. So that's how I was able to get you know financial aid and stuff. I didn't have to get no felony expung and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01

So do you agree or disagree that if those rules were to change, it would like decrease the amount of recidivism if more felons could get access to financial aid? Because they're trying to like turn it around, right? Trying to do the right thing, but they can't get no aid.

SPEAKER_00

We used to have we used to have we used to have college classes in prisons, ain't got none no more.

SPEAKER_01

I wonder why would they take that away? Do you have any idea like what law was passed to take that away? You know, I could do some research, man.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I read a book on this. I read a book on it, but I don't remember it too much of how why the reason why it's not in the prison system no more. But um, I would I would I would say it's probably gonna be funding. It'll always go back to the breach for now what you're doing. But um, I don't think that's the case uh because there's a lot of funds in the prison system. So um, but you know, people were able to one time to get a degree in prison, and you don't you can't get that no more.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, yeah, it depends on if it's like certain drug-related convictions. Yeah, yeah. The policy change have been restored, pale grant access for incarcerated individuals through approved programs. Yeah, it depends on like your incarceration status, um, conviction type and timing, the drug convictions. I mean, they set up the system that way to track lesson dollars.

SPEAKER_00

But most of my but how many majority of our prison sips in there for drugs? So man. That's why it's set up that way. The jig is up. The most, the, the like how many people, how many minorities are in prison for drugs right now? The jig is up. I'm trying to push for this thing.

SPEAKER_01

I heard about Ibergane, though. Yeah, like it helps with like people that have like prostormatic stress disorder and like issues with um what do you call it, substance abuse, yeah, specifically like opioids and stuff like that. It's like an 83% chance success rate on the first trial, and then like the second trial, it's like 95 or something like that. So I'm trying to push for that, especially for the veterans. But it's a bunch of stuff out here. You know, I mean, we ain't gonna I just point up to the Alice in Wonderland joint, man, because the jig the jig is up and we all know what's going on, and uh, that's an awakening, bro. That's happening. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. You had uh recently went on a cruise, right? Can you talk about that? A cruise?

SPEAKER_00

No, I haven't went on a cruise recently.

SPEAKER_01

Recently, no, not you told me you had met one of my favorite artists, man.

SPEAKER_00

Oh no, that was a that was years ago. That was uh man, I don't know, it was 2015 or 2016. I don't know what I got pictures with him, but I don't know. Um, I don't remember what year it actually was, but I know I was on a cruise.

SPEAKER_01

He did get him on the podcast.

SPEAKER_00

That'd be cool, right? That would be awesome. But uh I met yeah, I met him on the cruise. Uh um, I met say his name all. Please do. I'll be here. I met JDK. I met J the Kiss on the cruise. Down the earth guy, funny. Um, cool, you know, don't move with too much people. But he did a cool dude, man. Good to be around. I seen him in uh it was on the same ship together. So we, you know, we've seen each other a few times there. I seen him in uh we went to it was uh cruise to Turse and Caicos. I think we hit it was Terse and Caicos, St. Martin, St. Lucia, and I I don't know if it was Barbados, but I know we was in those areas like we hit like five different Virgin Islands so um but then I met um uh comedian by the name of Marcus Banks, and me and him are really good, we were really good friends now. I met like my brother, um super funny, man. I think I showed you his his uh Instagram and super funny. I met him that around that time too, and we just you know, since then we've been cool. He's out, he's out in uh uh New Rochelle. I think I don't know he's he's from New York, but I don't know if he's from Yonkers or New Rochelle. Um but I think he's in Detroit right now. He's in Detroit right now, but you know, he's you know, if you look at him, he got his Instagram, he's all he's all over the he's all around all the famous, you know, mic apps, roll on mic apps. That funny guy he's been to he every you know when he gets closer to the the south areas where I can able to go, then I you know I definitely always go to his shows whenever he's out in the south and stuff like that. So yeah, man.

SPEAKER_01

Tell him to come to uh the comedy zone if he can get a uh joint the comedy zone in Charlotte. I think he did that already. We'll go check him out.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think he was there. He was there uh man, when was it? It was it was this year. Hey, it was it was either early this year or late last year. He he came out here and I went to his show when he was out here.

SPEAKER_01

So he he hit that up already. And how awesome would it be if uh juice is it juices for life? That's the uh juice juice.

SPEAKER_00

But I haven't been there yet. Um, I was already out in New York when those things started popping up, but I haven't been there.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, but it'd be awesome when you go there. It'd be awesome if I could get them to be a sponsor for the podcast. It'd be dope as hell, bro. I know what I know I know what that burdock root will do. It activated me. That raw burdock root the the grounds of uh Pisgah, yeah, yeah. National Force in uh Transylvania County near Asheville. Yeah. Um so thank you for coming, man. And the last thing I want you to hit the audience with, man, like is speaking directly to someone that's troubled. Someone that's troubled, someone that's troubled, that may be going through some similar situations that you were going through, or are at a crossroads. Like, what would you say to them on how to get help? Yeah, this is a crossroads question.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think the there's programs out there, right? You just have to use resources and and um networking. You know, I I did some programs when I came out. Um, and first of all, while in there, there's programs. You gotta take advantage of these programs. A lot of a lot of inmates don't take advantage of these programs. A lot of honestly, a lot of times it's themselves, right? You just want to do your bit and go home. Or you can do your bid and do and put some work in and be a better person. I took a I took a fatherhood class in there. I was a young father when I went in, and I can't say I was much of a father. I had no idea. I know I I was I had a father and I was raised by him, but being myself a young dad, I was still a kid. You know, I didn't want to have that responsibility. So I took this called the man program, and then they teach young fathers, they give teach you your responsibilities as a father. So I took one of those guys' certificates for that. I did um alcohol anonymous and the anger management. Uh and a lot of those was volunteer. I did it on my own. Um, one program I had to do to be released, so it was mandatory. So it's like it's called the ASAP programs, alcohol and substance abuse treatment programs. I had to go through that too, bro. So I had to do that program, and I had to do that to be released, or you couldn't come out, so that was mandatory. But the other program I did on my own, you know. Um, I just volunteered to do them to see what they were like. And uh those are the type of things. Use your resources. There's many programs out there that can help with people. Um, I'm gonna say returning citizens. I don't like to call them felons, so returning citizens. There's there's um resources out there for you, but you have to put the effort, you have to take the advantage of it. Um, you can get your your your felon expunged if you want to, if you if it's hard for you to get uh financial aid, it's gonna and it might be hard for you to get a loan, you know, credit. Like those are the type of things you honestly don't even learn in the system. Or growing up, sometimes they don't tell you what you know how to build your credit, what credit is. You don't know these things. So I would say educate yourself. Start with education, educate yourself, know what you need out there in the world, understand what you need to get to certain places, you know. One of the reasons I decided to get an education was because I got tired of getting a low salary, and I knew I was very I knew I was intelligent, I knew I could do things, and I got tired of getting a low salary. So once I went to get education, it could open new doors for me.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_00

You knew you had that value. I knew, and then I watched people I began watching people, and I used to see men in the manufacturing facilities working into 75, 70 years old, just struggling to get, you know, to pick up parts and tools and stuff like that. I'm like, that can't be me. I gotta do something about that. How can I get out of it? And what's the the common denominator is the education. Many of them just have a high school diploma G they know other type of certifications or educations to put them in different positions. So I was like, I need to get a degree. I'm tired of I'm tired of being the person that they skipping over. So once I have once you got those degrees in place, it's like, oh man, look, he got this, he got this. You know, and then the skill set all combines it works to work together. And then you could now you can kick in the door and say, nah, this is what I want an hour.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and that made me think about something. Yeah, thank you for saying that, man. And I know some people probably that went in there, probably I know some cell phones do get into the prison system, right? Yeah, of course. But like I know for some kind of because I was gonna say at one point, at some period of time, people would come out and not know anything about technology, you know, so maybe they only they only had flip phone phones or something like that. But then like, what would they need to do? I guess they can talk to a family member, but they don't even understand technology, like they don't might not even know.

SPEAKER_00

It's courses now. You can go there's free online courses you can do. Like just you can go, I mean, you would need access, but the libraries just need a library card. Library card. There's ways, it's just access to things, people are just not taking the advantage of it. That's why I said you gotta put the effort, right? You can you can take you you can take you can take a horse to the water, but you can't force it to drink. So you you gotta put your own effort. You have you can't just wait there for somebody, you can't just sit at home waiting for somebody to say, here, here's this, here's it, here's it. Go get go out and get it, go seek it. If you want to, if if you can go to the library and use the computer, um, and you can you can uh go online and and take a little free course on just basic computer skills. You can do that.

SPEAKER_01

I was just kind of curious if to know if there was like a program that was already in place for felons to go to get all that information that they need and it's easy to use.

SPEAKER_00

There are nonprofit programs all over the place. That's what I did when I came home. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Was it hard to find?

SPEAKER_00

No.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, that's okay.

SPEAKER_00

No, because the core officer gives you those resources. Yeah, it's whether you're gonna use it or not.

SPEAKER_01

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

The poor officer's job is not their job is to keep an eye on you and make sure you're doing the right thing. They're gonna give you resources. You use them and not on you.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. Okay, so back to the horse being led to the wall. Back to the horse being led to the horse. So at the very least, they are at least pointing them in the right direction.

SPEAKER_00

Point you in the right direction. My poor officer gave me some places to check out, and I went on my own. I got on the train because I didn't have the funds to take nothing else. So I jumped in the train in New York, got to where I needed to go, started doing these programs, and I got a lot of resources in these programs. A lot of times I spent a lot of my day, my hours in those programs. And, you know, just in trying to, you know, trying to just do better for myself and figure things out. They help you find jobs. If you don't got a GD, they'll help you. Some you can get, some of you can take the classes there at the programs, you know. Now this is this is around my era. You know, so this was early to early 2000s. So, well, yeah, yeah, early 2000s, 2005, 2006, around there. So I don't know if them places are still there. Maybe those programs don't exist no more. I don't know, but I know they have this. I know those programs were there when I was when I was released. And I don't I doubt that they're gone now. It's probably different programs now, and technology is advancing, so we probably have online stuff now, like I said. So there's there's places out there that help. There's organizations that help, that help people, you know, help return citizens. There's definitely organizations. This is whether you want to utilize them and then seek them yourself. So that's this, that's why I can say to the people who are who you know are incarcerated, want to do better for themselves, you have to want to actually want to do better for yourself. You can do it, you know. Now there's now there's also systems in place to prevent it, right? But how much are you gonna allow it to be prevented? You know what I'm saying? Or how much you're gonna fight for.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

You know what I'm saying? The same way you put the effort to come to do what you did in the streets, the same way you do the effort to embed yourself, and do what you need to do for yourself. The same effort.

SPEAKER_01

Do you feel like people can fully rewrite their story, or do pieces of the puzzle kind of still stick with them?

SPEAKER_00

No, man. Stories can be rewritten. You know, stories can be rewritten. You know, some great stories you can rewrite. You know, but story, your your lifestyle, you that's why I said you can control certain things in your life. You can control certain things in your life. You can, you know, um, and like I said, the certain things you can't, figure it out later. Let it go. Just control what you can. And look at my life, look at my story. My story begins as a young child, um, growing up in the in what I thought was a nice little playground for me. But actually, to I actually know what the reason why them abandoned lots were there, right? It were burned down buildings. It looks like fun for us, but there was a reason for those buildings being there. The landlords were setting the buildings on fire to collect insurance money. And right, that's why we had them empty lots, right? But that's a playground for us. And as I get older, as I get older, now, you know, I realize, okay, now you start seeing things in the street, start doing, now we start doing little crimes actually right now, right? Growing up in those rough neighborhoods. And then something happens, I get incarcerated, you know, I meet some people, and I take that wisdom from these people and I turn it around. I just rewrote my story. My story could have been incarceration, maybe release, death, maybe killed, or back to prison. And that story didn't continue. That story stopped at my release. And keep writing, bro. It's still being written. And it's still being written until today put me six feet under. You literally, and even then, you what you you still leaving things behind. Yeah, like still leaving things behind. Podcasts, you know, writing a book, your children, they look. Reflections of you, you're still leaving things behind. The legacy, real the legacy is still going, bro.

SPEAKER_01

Yo, yo, hey man, that's a dumb hearty, bro. Yo, your story is so fucking inspirational to me. Appreciate it, man. Appreciate it. I got so much fucking respect for you, brother. Appreciate it, man. I had a lot of respect for you before, just being on the match, man, and just talking to you, man. Like, but yeah, appreciate it, man. I'm ready for your book to come out, man. I can't wait for it. I'm 100 pages in.

SPEAKER_00

I don't think I have, I think my dad read a few pages. I have to let nobody else read it, but I'm 100 pages in right now. I'm just joting things down and then I'll put it together later. But um, I just you know, I'm just trying to make sure I'm doing things right. Yeah, man. I don't rush it. And I want to keep the, you know, uh, you know, incidents that happen, I gotta make sure that people are not incriminated and stuff like that. I want to keep, you know, so I want to, you know, still have to protect people.

SPEAKER_01

Meticulous, though. So I'm gonna go through and scrutinize.

SPEAKER_00

And you know, these are real life stories that happen. And um, like I told you, I think what the title was uh Ghost Town, a true bronze tale, or I'm gonna say a real bronze tale. I really don't know. But it's cool, man. It's a night. I like and I I enjoy reading it because it, I mean, it's like it almost seems like that wasn't my like it wasn't something that was happening in real life. Like I'm reading it, it feels like I'm reading a book from that someone else wrote. So, but uh, but you know, when I every time I go back, I always start from the beginning before I start writing and read all the way through and then continue writing. And I don't know why I do that, but it's how it just, I don't know, it's just uh probably like just a just to see my story on um like written down, it's just like, man, this is crazy. Like I don't even know about I'll be doing this.

SPEAKER_01

I cannot hold a smirk back though. I was just thinking about I think it was actually Jada Kiss, dog. Kiss was like uh Sonny's like like Sonny from Bronx Tale, now you can't leave. Yeah, yeah. Sonny from Bronx Tale, you can't leave. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was a very interesting thing.

SPEAKER_00

Well, just the movie's actually about him and the Bronx. Yeah, yeah. It's based on the true story. Based on it's based on true events of him and the Bronx. I think he played, I think he's Korojo though characters. I think he is, yeah. But that's based on based on his story. You're gonna try to get a movie? Nah, I don't know, that'd be cool, but I don't know what I was gonna do.

SPEAKER_01

Maybe I was saying Bronx and Brother at the same time, but listen, man, like I would love to be a part of it, whatever I can do to promote it, or yeah, I got I'll de I'll definitely let you, you know, I'll let you let you, I'll set, I'll let you uh take a look at it all together. Maybe I can get a little small action rolling or something. I took one act. I'm gonna let you get up out of here, man. Yes, sir. Appreciate it, man. Thank you for having me. Absolutely, man.

SPEAKER_00

I appreciate your time, brother. Uh I appreciate you inviting me and the grace. I appreciate what you're doing here. This is this is good for the for the community to get these little messages out here and like what you know what Joey left in the comment where he said was real podcasts with real people. You know, I think that's important, right? Because it's we're not celebrities, we're real, we're we're we're fathers, we're people of our community, and we're nine to five guys just you know that practice jujitsu and you know, living doing the family thing and just trying to get a message out there for the public, you know. So it's real life.

SPEAKER_01

Shout out to Coach Joey Dean and everybody over there, Carolina family, man. Shout out to all y'all, man.

SPEAKER_00

Carolina family jujitsu.

SPEAKER_01

And I'm looking forward to uh open matter night. Um yeah, man. So tapping the hug. Don't forget to tap out.