Seeds of Legacy | Community, Mental Health & Ownership with Jonathan Nazeer

In this episode, I sit down with Jonathan Nazeer — entrepreneur, community builder, and founder behind Landon Lane Homestead & Retreat and Victory Gardens International.

We talk about mental health, especially among Black youth, and the importance of having real outlets, structure, and support.

From self-sustainability and growing your own food to building systems rooted in cooperation and shared prosperity, this conversation is about taking ownership and creating change from within.

From my perspective, once you find your peace, you still need an outlet — something that builds discipline and control. For me, that’s jiu-jitsu.

Because nobody is coming to save us.

👉🏾 What are you building?
👉🏾 How are you contributing?
👉🏾 How can we come together and create something that lasts?

Peace and Love at The Dap and A Hug

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Gotta let the people know. And I I'm gonna go ahead and say this before we jump it off and get into the questions. Okay. I want to give a shout out to Alonzo Lumpkin. Yes. And I've mentioned this in a couple podcasts before, but he had the basically like a town hall meeting for local community organizers. And it was Guns Down, Gloves Up. Yep. And uh that's how I met you. Well, I I had heard of you before, but then I saw you, and I think Antonio Knox had mentioned you to me.

SPEAKER_02 0:33

See, you mentioned two great names, but Zoe, I've got a great deal of respect for, probably one of the first people that I knew prior to coming to the city. So when I lived in Rock Hill, um I did boxing promotion there, professional boxing promoting. And uh I would get my I would get my ring from Zoe. I would rent it from him. Uh and then my son was a student at Winthrop who was a fighter and needed a place to train. And I immediately, even though I was in DC, I was like, yo, I know a guy. And I sent him over to Zoe. So we've got a long-standing relationship. And so uh it doesn't surprise me that that gym is such an anchor uh in the community and a way to bring people together, but more importantly, it really gives, as we were talking prior to coming on, about the discipline of jujitsu and some of the other martial arts. Boxing is that too. That's why they call it a sweet science, right? So it's not just a a physical thing, there's a mental capacity that has to happen and that you gotta build into that and strengthen, strengthen your mental stamina just as much as your physical stamina. So uh Zo's been doing that for years, man. And you can just tell by the way he lives his life that he's an example of the work that he puts in. So it doesn't surprise me that that's where we met because he's such a a great brother. So shout out to Zoe.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

Yeah, and the message that it was about is you know, how are we gonna keep kids out off the streets and have them compartmentalize their emotions and maybe they'll have an outlet to where they don't go grab a gun and shoot somebody.

SPEAKER_03 2:10

It's a tough thing, man.

SPEAKER_01 2:11

That's basically what you know what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, and this has been going on for like years and years, and like just any martial art, the discipline in it, you find in your journey, yeah. You finding on your search for peace to where like if something happens, you don't flip out on somebody. You can control that kind of stuff. Yeah. So we can keep having these conversations, but I just hope that people that are in control, the people that have good hearts that really do want to see our community, you know, exponentially grow. Right. You know, like put the put the lens on the mental health of it.

SPEAKER_02 2:41

How can we how can we fix that first and then I don't think we realize how bad our mental health was. Like I'm I'm 51 and I am realizing now one, how important mental health is, but more importantly, the gaps that I've had throughout my life. You know, I feel uh I don't want to say I feel sorry for young black men today, but I am extremely concerned that the world sees them in the light that they do, that they unless they've got a good um support system around them, that they'll be able to get the help that they need. Um I guess it's been probably almost 10 years ago, there was a young brother that uh that was at the mosque and he did he was talking to me about the hood as PTSD. And I was just like, yo, that's it. It didn't quite resonate with me initially, but then I started thinking about it. I was like, damn, that's true, man. I mean, a lot of these young, these young brothers on the street, and I don't want to say young brothers on the street, but young brothers in our community are seeing so much, man. They're seeing uh I and I wouldn't I wouldn't necessarily like compare it to like a Gaza somewhere that's like war-torn, but they are they've seen us, man. If you're 18 years old, uh in in our community, you've seen a lot of trauma and drama from a little kid up until now. And even some of that is not even if you don't live in it, you've seen it. We've seen the depiction of the black man and our race and what we've had to struggle and go through through media and that sort of thing, and it still affects us, man. And I don't think we've figured out how to how to heal from that, and plus just the role of being a man, our masculinity, as confusing as it is, we're still trying to figure that out, man. That men, black men specifically, were more than just being providers. And that that's how we're that's how we're engaged. Can't how much can you provide? Nothing about our mental health, nothing about our nurturing spirit, nothing about whether or not we even have right spirituality, whether or not we are good with people, none of those other skill sets that really show the value of human life, but can you provide? And I know we're hunter-gatherers, and and and it's a fine balance because black men also have to provide, but that can't be our only worth. So, anyway, man, I'll I'll get off of that. I'll let you jump into your stuff.

SPEAKER_01 5:28

No, I was just gonna say, um, you said you were talking about how like we're portrayed in the media. Well, I was thinking how we're portrayed in the media with like even as like a little kid, you're watching like superhero movies and stuff like that. Like, none of them are black. Yeah, I never got into the Marvel thing, right? Right, but uh it's just messed up, and I'm not gonna go into a rabbit hole because I you know it's a lot of people sharing different stuff like online, yeah, about like you know, African American people that invented stuff, yeah, and it was never depicted like sure. But um I'm gonna do some more research, yeah. No, and I'm gonna do a podcast centered around it, and hopefully I can get Mr. Cathcourt on. Oh, yeah, no. That's let me let me let me just I'm just gonna put a pen on that and we're gonna move on. But my point is there's so much history locally that I have no idea about, and I'm just now learning that includes one of my like descendants. Yeah, no doubt. Mason Chisholm. Yeah, yeah. And when Mr. Cathcourt was enlightening me on everything that he was doing, I started doing a little bit of research on my own, and it blew me away what he did for the people around the Crawford Road area with the irrigation for the water and the buses to go pick kids up and bring them back. I mean So I'm I'm honestly, man, this means so much to me on a whole level that people will not relate to. Some of me, but I have to carry that that torch and I gotta carry the legacy and help my community.

SPEAKER_02 6:46

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, when I shout out to Brother Wally, who is man, my mentor, just spoke to him earlier this morning. I mean, I think it's guys like him who helped share the story. Because, like you, I didn't know who Mason Chisholm was, but I mean, to hear and to see the um how happy Brother Wally is when he talks about it and what he did for the community for him specifically. He always says, Man, I would have never gotten an education had it not been for him, because it was those buses that were able to bus me to Emmett Scott. Like I never would have been able to graduate high school had it not for been for the buses that he provided. And that wasn't like something that the city did. That was something that one man decided that he was going to make an investment into his community and make that investment, man. So I mean, you know, I'm we you, I, so many others, man, we stand on the shoulders of these giants, man, and I don't think that they necessarily get the credit that they deserve. I think they're about to. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, and and I appreciate that. Well, I'm emotional. I'm sorry, I'm emotional about this. I'm trying to calm down a little bit, but I got it. That's both of us, bro, because in in truth, there are individuals like this in communities across across our country, man, that don't necessarily get their just does and no disrespect to the bigger guys, right? And I don't even want to call them bigger, right? I compare a brother Wally to uh uh a um a Booker T Washington in my life, because I'll never get a chance to touch and feel and shake the hands of Booker T. Um, but I can with a brother Wally and and how much Booker T meant to him and you know uh Emmett Scott and what Emmett Scott meant to a Booker T and what it meant to, I mean, so that lineage, man, but I I I feel bad because our young people, especially young black men, man, they don't they don't get this or maybe it's not as attractive to them, but they they have that same power being giants too, man. So we we gotta figure out how do we how do we help cultivate the young brothers and sisters. And I and don't get me wrong, I don't, I I'm listening I'm a I'm a girl dad, and and so are you. Yeah, absolutely. So I mean, I but I think that there's so much in place, and and women do such a great job of like grabbing other women and loving on each other and trying to find healing and that sort of thing. Brothers, we just don't, man. And we just we have got to crack that cold. And I'm not saying that I know the answers, but I am willing to work with anybody who wants to try to figure out how do we do it because I think it's it's super important, man, for our future.

SPEAKER_01 9:39

It really is, man. Um, we'll move on from that. It's just we get you know, Black History Month is next month. You know, we should be celebrated every day, bro. 100%. And I'm gonna I'm gonna shed the light on everybody that's doing good in the community, uh, regardless of your race, you know what I'm saying? But it's just about your character that matters with me. No doubt. But we definitely gotta highlight some stuff along the way. Um, so who is Jonathan Azir? Can you tell the people that don't know or aren't familiar with like your works and what you do for the community? Because I had no idea who you were until I met you that day.

SPEAKER_02 10:13

I don't know if I I mean the one thing I don't want to sound is arrogant, right? Because I'm just a brother, man. I'm uh I I'm not originally from Rock Hill. I grew up in Greensboro, North Carolina. Uh I am I am a son, I am a brother, nephew, husband, father, friend. Uh I'm I care deeply about the communities, uh deeply about black communities. And I don't say that to say that I don't care about other communities, but um I've I have learned over the years to embrace my blackness and all that comes along with it, good and bad. And I I love that portion of it, uh, of my life. I I don't think that I will want to be any, matter of fact, there's no doubt about it. I would not want to be any other race other than black. Um and so yeah, I just I I love people, man, and I love helping our community. Um I certainly love the elders. Um and uh Yeah, that's that's who I am, man. I'm just I'm just a guy trying to trying to make a little bit of a mark and feel like I am um contributing and not taking. And so I just want to leave the world better than how I received it. That's all.

SPEAKER_01 11:34

Well, that's probably the foundation of where we align. Yeah. You know, we go through our lives going through the motion, at least I did for quite some time. Then you have something to change the direction of your life. Some people at least. And for me, I want to make sure that for the remainder of my time on earth that I leave it better than it was. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? As far as this area at least. Yeah. Hopefully I have a global reach, but we'll see. See what the people out there are gonna do if they believe in the dapping the hood aspect, man. And like the whole respect and love thing is very serious to me, bro. Cause I think that's just at least uh a half a step in the right direction.

SPEAKER_02 12:11

I I don't really know if people really understand that what that word love means, man. And so um I'm starting to get a little bit of a better understanding of it too. And not loving people, but also loving myself and who I am and where I'm at at this particular stage in my life. So I haven't always loved myself. And so um I wish that younger people would find that piece of themselves much earlier. But I think we have to provide environments that they can and and understanding what love really means.

SPEAKER_01 12:42

I think a lot of that has to do with what you're doing, and specifically like that day when I had brought Lyric out there, and we was helping pick up stuff and put stuff in the trash, and then you move stuff out to landing, right? Yeah. Like getting them involved early, getting their hands dirty, knowing they're part of the village, they're part of okay, daddy said that there's a problem, so we came up with a solution, so I'm gonna help him solve it. So we're gonna pick this up or take this over here, fix this, or whatever. A lot of that stuff gets detached, especially now with you know, social media and other distractions. The kids have like access to tablets and stuff, and sometimes us as parents, even you know, I hold myself accountable, especially doing running this business. It's like I have ideas pop up on in my mind, and I'd be on my phone looking up something, doing research on something, you know, saving an idea, but I'm taking away my time from my daughter. So I can't like be like strict on her about being on tablets and stuff like that. I feel like I'm kind of getting off subject. You know what I'm saying? It's it's about like just staying connected to the primal aspect of where we came from, hunters and gatherers. It's okay to have technology to better our lives, to make things more convenient, but we get a little too comfortable after a while. Then we look back and be like, what happened?

SPEAKER_02 13:50

Well, I I mean, I just think we're so disconnected as people. Yeah, and much of that comes from this idea that we are no longer we no longer think communal, we only think individually. Um, I thought about it today, even um, and again, I'm I'm striving, man. I'm trying to get it right too. I was thinking about it today as I went out uh trying to find salt, right? Uh to as the storm is coming in. I couldn't find any. Um I as I drove down my street, there are three houses together, and somebody had already gone out and put salt on the sidewalk and in the driveways for the three houses. And I thought about it, I was like, man, I I've been living in this community almost two years and I barely know my neighbor's name.

SPEAKER_01 14:34

There you go.

SPEAKER_02 14:35

You know what I mean? And it's just like um not the same race, but that's my neighbor, right? And uh he's a truck driver, he's on the road a lot. Um has a wife and I think like three daughters, that when he's out on the road, they're there. I mean, the least that I can do is to give him a sense of peace that while he's out traveling on the road trying to earn a living, that his family is safe back at home. And we've just gotten away from that, man. And I think that is one of the reasons why um I grew up in that type of community where everybody looked out for each other. Uh, and man, it was such a blessing to be in that. And so when I moved to Rock Hill, Rock Hill was kind of reminiscent of Greensboro a bit. Uh it has similar stories as it relates to the the sit-in movements and what happened with the Friendship Nine. We've got the uh we've got the the the Antique Four. Um, I think it was almost one year to the date. I think it was February 1st, 1960. And then I think Friendship Nine is February 1st, 1961. Uh but growing up in that type of community and that sense of pride in in a community and in its people um helped shape me. Like you were bringing Lyric out to do work. That's what I did with my mom and my grandmother. I I mean and my grandfather, like he would take me places and we'd help somebody else out. And, you know, so I learned the importance of it's not necessarily about getting paid for everything. It's about paying it forward, and you help people because at some point you'll need help too. So um it helped mold and shape me.

SPEAKER_01 16:15

And you know what, man? Just I share part of my testimony in little droplets and drips along the way, right? Yeah. Because everybody has a story. I'm not like, whoa, it's me playing a victim card, but I'm trying to help people from my downfalls, mistakes, and moving forward. So I didn't really know what community service was until after I got like my DUI with double. I got in trouble in Clemson, bro, and I had to go do community service.

SPEAKER_02 16:37

Yeah, but that's not real community service.

SPEAKER_01 16:39

But I'm just saying, but like that's punishment. But what I'm saying is get the kids involved at a younger age that are already helping out, and then like that way, maybe that'll prevent them from doing something to make a mistake to get a DUI. But I think that'd be part of the community, man. No, no, I agree with that. You don't want them learning the way I did about community service.

SPEAKER_02 16:56

But but and I think that that's almost also like I don't really like that term of like community service because it's really not granted, you're out doing something, but it could just be ingrained in what you you're born with, and you're taught right that you want to help people anyway in your community. Yeah, and it may be the reason why, like I'm just saying because it's punishment.

SPEAKER_01 17:13

You don't like it.

SPEAKER_02 17:14

The way that you just shaped it, right? Yeah, it makes me if I go out and ask some young brothers right now, hey, come help me do some community service, their idea of what community service is is connected to a judge. You know what I'm saying? So they're like, yo, I don't want no parts of that community service sort of deal. But um, being servant leaders, man, and just getting in our community to help, and I think if somehow or another we just gotta get back to that. And I wish that more people in our community would recognize, man, that we all we got, you know, and if we can't help each other, man, and build with each other, I mean, man, we're gonna we're gonna perish. And we're starting to see that in our communities now. That void, man, goes going back to your earlier point. That's really what love is. I mean, love is also doing right when you feel like nobody's watching. And I mean, and that's the piece of it, man, I think we miss because I think we have a very because and some of it is just an English language. If you look at other languages and really dig into what the word love means, it's way more, it's way deeper than how the English would describe love. Love to us just means like I love my mama. I love it's almost um a one-way sort of thing. Like it's not, it's not connected. And there's there's fear in love, there's um there's a bit of toughness that comes in love, and I think that's where we're at now. Like our community needs some tough love too, because I think we've allowed we've allowed people to um not um be accountable when they say that they love you. So I think that that you know you ask any woman about love, and they'll have a whole different perspective of what what love is than than probably most brothers.

SPEAKER_01 19:07

I think you brought up a good point. Like we can't sit around waiting for a government official or somebody to come and help us. No, those days. Like we and I and I'm and I'm so blessed and honored and just very humbled to be sitting here with you because I'm serious, man. Nah, I'm serious. No, because this is where it starts, bro. Yeah, us having these conversations.

SPEAKER_02 19:28

Well, you know, when we met and you were we were talking about it a little earlier, when we met and you were telling me about the hey man, I'm gonna start this podcast, man, and it it seemed very visionary at that point. And look at you now. You know, I I told you the other day, yo, man, like I think what you're doing is amazing because people don't get an opportunity to share stories like this anymore, or have an audience to share stories uh too. So I'm appreciative of you. I feel honored that you feel enough, uh, saw enough in me to say, hey, listen, dude, I want to sit down and have a conversation with you. So I'm I'm the witness blessed and honored.

SPEAKER_01 20:00

Yeah. I just, I mean, you know, it's the people I don't like, and I got a question later on in the the list, but what exactly do we need to do? I'm gonna go ahead and just ask you straight up. Like, what do we need to do? We're having a conversation. We have an area of land where we can like grow vegetables and stuff, right? Like, but what's the initiative like? What do we need to do to really make a change and get people a little riled up? Not riled up in a negative way. I'm just saying, like, excited, be like, okay, dang, they're talking about this. Did you hear the podcast? I didn't even realize that what that was going on. There's an opportunity where we can make a change and you know, just get people talking and get the buzz going, and then we actually meet up somewhere and come up with an actual plan. Yeah. And get the logistics down. Um because it ain't nothing, it's not gonna happen overnight. It might be a plan that we do like five to ten years for the next generation.

SPEAKER_02 20:47

I I think what I'm realizing now, probably more than ever. So to answer your question first, man, I really don't know. Yeah I I I don't know if there is a there's certainly not a one one, like if we saw this, we saw everything. And maybe there is. I just don't know what that is. But as far as what I can do and what I can contribute, yeah, um, I think land for for me and my family, that's what we've chosen to make our investment, not not only our financial investment, our spiritual investment, our uh our human capital. Um Henry Kissinger said that he who controls your food controls you. And so I want to be able to not control the control people, but I want to be in control of myself, my sovereignty. Um you know, if I can help the community, I want to be able to do that. And so I I for me I found it through food, I found and it and I will tell you this, Siddhartha, because you'll you'll appreciate this because you've had An opportunity to come out on the land. Initially it was all about being on the land and growing. But that has shifted tremendously for me, man. And the land has become such a healing place for me. When you're out there, man, and all you can hear, the chickens or the roosters crowing, you can think, man. I disconnect from everything else to the point where my breathing slows down. It gives me a sense of um one, I think it does give me a great sense of pride, man, that I own something. I think knowing the legacy of that land gives me a great sense of pride and that how now my family is connected to the Cathcart family. Um we want to continue to keep as we are building our own story, we want to continue to keep storytelling and telling that family story. Um so it became less about just getting out there growing, and it all it became about not growing food, but also the mental, um, the spiritual piece of it. That land is healing, man. And so I really would I and and we want to share it. Like we want we want the community to be able to come out and experience that and know what that's like. I wish I was I wish I could um be more articulate and just describing how that feeling, man, of being out on the land and how you can just get lost out there, man. You can go out there and realize, like, man, I came out here at eight in the morning. It's it's 4 30 in the afternoon. You've just it feels like time just moves past, man. But it it really is uh a beautiful place. So for me and for our family, man, I think we've just we've decided that we're gonna invest in um the land, invest in young people knowing um how to grow, how to survive, how to be sustainable based upon the land. And that's where I think we are really kind of pouring more of our energy and time into.

SPEAKER_01 24:12

Cut to a lot of other locations around town as being like deconstruction to construct these vertical buildings to fill in capacity and make money, right? Yeah, well, I mean, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 24:22

I just people still need a place to live, don't get me wrong. And I got and I I respect that too. Um, and some people like some people like staying in that type of environment, like staying on the top of each other and it because there's a sense of community that comes along with it, right? And so I I think for some people, for some people, bro, like that's the thing. Like, I listen, I I got a lot of friends from up north, right? So I got a lot of friends to New York. Um, I spent a lot of time in New York growing up, um, where everybody else would send their kids down south. Um, my my my stepdad would send me up north to stay with his family, and so I learned a lot. And there is a communal sense that comes along with it when when you when you stand in a high-rise and everybody in there knows each other and it's very diverse, and you have black families and Puerto Rican families and Haitian families, and so it kind of becomes this kind of melting pot. And I think that that's cool for a lot of people. For me, being out on that land, I'm with you, bro. I'm about to with you, but it's pop it it speaks more to me than than the larger city, right? Yeah, and and you couldn't have told me that growing up, bro. Growing up, yo, I really wanted to be from New York. Like I think like New York was it, it was the epicenter, it was where rap music was at, it was where fashion was at. If everything was so fast-paced, man, and I wanted that lifestyle, and then I got a sliver of it, and I was like, Yeah, I ain't I'm not cut out for this.

SPEAKER_01 25:53

Thank you for saying that. And I was just gonna say that's why I'm glad we're having this conversation, and for people to see that it's okay to think one way, and then you get some more information or a different experience, a perspective shift, and then you change your mind about the way how you see life looks or the outlook on life. Yeah, that thing you can change your mind.

SPEAKER_02 26:10

No, no, that's not to be, you know, you don't have to stay in it just because you made a decision.

SPEAKER_01 26:16

Yeah, or people around or or people around you or coercing you, or you know, the peer thing. They teach us about like not like so. When you're coming up in school, at least my parents will always like be a leader, not a follower. You know what I'm saying? And then it's always just the concept about like peer pressure. I I feel like the peer pressure thing going on even more now for adults. They don't they don't they don't they they they skid. Honestly, bro, honestly, man. I feel like a lot of people might even just be scared to even look within themselves because they scared what's in a yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:46

No doubt. I mean, I think that's why a lot of people escape. It's not like when you graduate from high school, all of a sudden peer pressure stays behind. Right. It I mean, there's corporate peer pressure, there's just peer pressure even among men to men. Yep. Um, social media, I believe, is probably the biggest form of peer pressure because we look at other people in that envious or that like I want what they have, or like nobody, nobody posts that, like, yo, I'm having a horrible day, and I feel like my life is falling apart, and I got like nobody goes on and shows that side of their life. Everybody only shows the good stuff.

SPEAKER_01 27:21

Well, now some people be crying for help sometimes. Well, that's true.

SPEAKER_02 27:24

And and and they're ignored a lot of times, too, you know. So I do think that um peer pressure hasn't left us. It's probably gotten worse if you really probably start looking at it. Yeah. Um, and then uh, how do we prepare our young people, man, to understand that peer pressure will always be there and you're gonna have to always manage it. It there's just so much, man, that I feel like this this current school environment, this education environment should be teaching us. But we're not, and then I'm not real sure if it is their place. Like school is supposed to be supportive of what you learn at home. And I think we've kind of put more pressure on school and feel like they do all the teaching and we're there to support when it should be the other way around. But anyway, that's probably a completely different subject.

SPEAKER_01 28:15

Well, no, it's a great subject, but we ain't even gonna get to the question. No, it's a great subject because I was thinking about this months ago, man. I wanted to talk to you about like the whole school situation, but I feel like there should be less time in school as far as the time that a parent is away from the child. That would give us more time to teach them like the core values and principles of how to be a human being, a human being, excuse me, and how to treat other people in general. And then plus, like I could teach my daughter how to hunt. Right. That might sound crazy, but like she needs to know how to survive in case something happened to me. Like everybody, I mean, the thing about it is when I look at it like this, I'm not like a definitely not an expert on anything, but I'm more of an expert on myself and I know my limitations. Yeah, and I'm very humble, bro. Like, I don't but anyway, my point is everything that I learned, I have to teach my daughter. Yeah, plus more though.

SPEAKER_03 29:07

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:08

Like, it was certain things, and I'm not trying to get too personal right now, but there's certain things I had to question my pops about, man. Like, I love my dad, man. Like, he's an amazing man. A lot of people around the area know him. Shout out to Duke Daddy. But I was like, man, why didn't you teach me how to like build uh fix lawnmowers and build lawnmowers, man? Like, I feel like that's scary. He did back in the day. My dad wear like multiple jobs. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. But he he did that as well. And I just felt like that could have been like something we could have bonded on. No, I mean But he was busy and he was he did the best that he could have going on. If you know better, you do better, bro. So I don't like hold it against him or anything, but I look at it as a learning tool or just a situation where I'm like, okay, well, if I know something that I feel like can benefit lyric, I have to share that with her. If I don't share that with her, yeah, I would be doing her a disservice. Yeah, she has to be prepared to be independent. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? Like to know as many skills as she can know, to not have to depend on somebody else.

SPEAKER_02 29:58

I'm in the house with educators, so we talk about the school system and this modern school system all the time. I mean, for the most part, our school system has not changed since before the Civil War. So it was never really created with us in mind, anyway.

SPEAKER_01 30:15

Well, I thought it was, I thought it was created because we had like a war going on and uh it was a bunch of like factory workers and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02 30:22

No, that I don't know. Just a half. Just the model of school itself. Okay. But I do know that there have been there have been a lot of transformative, like nature-based learning schools, things like that, that I think are are practical. They're not in um they're not in that traditional go to this class, learn it sort of thing. We were blessed enough to um um homeschool two of our children. And I do think that they have, now that they are in a public school system, I do think that they are a little bit more advanced than their peers because uh they didn't necessarily and we were concerned, like when they finally went to school, we're like, oh crap, did we did they get enough? Are they gonna be behind? And we realized, man, that learning is not reduced to a 8 a.m. to three o'clock sort of schedule. That you can learn there's there's an opportunity to learn something and anything. And so uh I wish that we would get back to learning that way. Um I I wish we like if if young people got a chance to really come out on the farm and really spend a day with Brother Wally and you can learn so much, man, there's so many lessons in what he's talking about. And I'm not just talking about like book knowledge, but just practical human knowledge of how to deal with people, looking at the world, the the sciences of nature to explain certain things. Like we talk about the parable about you know, you you reap what you sow, but young people have no idea what that means because they never place a seed in the ground. They don't realize that a shoot shoots down before it shoots up. There's so many, there's so much power in that in itself of like something's gotta get it in you before people can see the outward um transformation. There's something that has to happen on the inside. Like it's just those are all things, man, that you can't teach in a classroom, bro. You gotta you gotta experience that and live that. And so yeah, I agree with you, man. I mean, I I'm a fan of homeschooling um because I do think that um you get an opportunity to teach your children what you want them to learn as opposed to what a system says that they they need to learn. And that doesn't mean that they're gonna be less productive or productive, man. But I think that they get an opportunity to know who they are too. Spending time with yourself is not necessarily a bad thing.

SPEAKER_01 33:00

Right. And I'm about to get into dangerous territory because I don't have a lot of knowledge on the subject, but I'm just saying, like, as far as like we were talking about martial arts earlier, and then like the concept of how much time kids are spending in school, like maybe we could have like I mean, I guess you look at martial arts as like a third-party type situation because we don't have any martial arts like jujitsu or kickboxing, Muay Thai. We don't have any of that in schools. Oh no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 33:24

I don't know if that's like a a law thing or something, a liability thing, but I feel like it's a combat sport, but I I don't see I mean wrestling is a combat sport. So they got wrestling over there, yeah. They got wrestling. So they got they got girls wrestling. I mean, so I don't even think that. So I don't I don't know if it's it's a sanctioned uh South Carolina high school sport, but yeah, more for sure that it it could be introduced.

SPEAKER_01 33:48

Yeah, I mean I just really I just know in my heart that we're cut down on the bullying, man. And just I just had a brain for it, to be honest. No, I mean it's jujitsu in the school thing.

SPEAKER_02 34:00

Um there's a spiritual aspect.

SPEAKER_01 34:03

But that could be, I mean, there could be classes on like self-control. Yeah, that, but I'm talking about like I mentioned hunting earlier. Let's just say, okay, she's a female. Yeah, let's just not go that deep right now. Let's say like the hunter or the gatherer part of the hunt and gatherer thing, right? With like mushrooms or poisonous or beneficial. Or with greens, like poke salad. Everybody see poke salad. Yep, no, no, nobody, you know, just the I'm it's my job to inform the people on poke salad. Yeah, but I'm just saying, like, seriously, like any herb that's in the backyard, like because you have we have wild onions. Yeah, like I was up in the mountains, bro. Oh my goodness, shout out to Carrie Walter. I was up in um the Asheville area, bro. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I saw this plant. I was like, man, that plant is something about that plant. Like I can like tear out the greens and like just cook them up or something. Ramps? Huh? Was it ramps? It was uh burdock. Burdock, okay. You know, I took a picture of it, yeah, yeah, yeah. Use the app, yeah, which is a very great benefit for um technology right now. It said it was burdock, and I had taken burdock root along with like seamouse and bladderact, that kind of that combination. But bruh, I uh I pulled a plant up, took off the uh the root bark, yeah, peeled it off. I got the like the actual root itself, put it on the cutting board, cut off a couple pieces, man, and I ate a little bit of it, bruh. And uh it's been on since then. I legit feel like I was activated, man. It's it's like natural medicine that came from Mother Earth from God directly, like just on a camping trip, and I I ate it. I'm telling you, man, you know, like Manchurian Canada, yeah, that movie. Yeah, yeah. I feel like that was the same for me, but like for the opposite effect for like to do some positive and not go out and kill somebody.

SPEAKER_02 35:42

Yeah, yeah. But but I mean, our ancestors man had that type of knowledge, and that's not and and I think what what's sad and what's so sad about the situation is somehow or another that doesn't become science. Like somehow or another, that's old talk, that's old those remedies and things like that, man. Like, that's what our people should be learning. That's exactly what we're supposed to be learning living, how we should be condemned. But we've we've allowed a system to come in and tell us that science is something different. And don't get me wrong, science is science. I I know the scientists out there may be going crazy about this, but I I don't want to say that one science is greater than the other. I do believe that the science of that's from a municipal standpoint, man. Like you should be able to go outside in your backyard and find or have whatever ails you, you should have some sort of remedy for that. But we don't know.

SPEAKER_01 36:41

Well, see, the insurance companies, and you know, who don't like that, bro. And I'm trying to keep it. It's a power control and green. That's what it is. So I wanna I'm gonna fight against the current, dog, and that's what I'm doing. Like, I'm gonna I'm gonna talk to somebody who's serious about this. Who I'm not somebody that like-minded individuals think, like I'm in you think, and like, let's teach people on what herbs, what plants that we can have in our backyard that may even be wild already, that may be back though, that could like help an ailment. It's it's about preventative measures, man. We can't keep going through the system the way it is and depending on them to help us, and then we got to pay all this insurance, and that's a whole nother racket in itself.

SPEAKER_02 37:16

Well, I mean, that's that was so twofold. One, you know, that that herbal treatment, that sort of thing, man, like that's real healthcare. Not this this idea of what we think healthcare is versus what real healthcare is, is being able to take care of yourself, uh, being preventative as opposed to the healthcare system that we know of is really more a reactive piece than it is proactive. That's one of the reasons why when we had Victory Gardens, or wh while we have Victory Gardens International, we started um the pharmacy and we spelled it with the F was like everything that you need to survive and heal yourself is being grown. And um and if we could get back to eating healthier, um, we could we could change our health condition in our community. If we change the health condition in our community, we'd have more energy to go out and solve some of the world's issues. If we could solve some of the world's issues, our communities would thrive and grow. So it really started with, you know, um taking care of your self, health, and wealth. And so um I think we're a little ahead of our time. And so uh we haven't abandoned it, we just shrunk it down, and so everything will be out at Landon Lane. But nonetheless, you know, uh that was always our thinking man. Listen, we gave it a shot, bro. And if it didn't work, it didn't work. I don't mean I'm not mad about it. I'm not um I'm not bitter in any way. Uh I'm happy for the experience of being able to open pharmacy community farm stop. Uh it was a it was a wild concept. Um, and so you know, it is what it is. That's his life, bro. We uh we take the punch and we keep going.

SPEAKER_01 39:07

No, we're gonna figure something out. Yeah, do that. They think about how how many commercials it is for like, I'm not gonna say any brand name brands, but just junk food, all those commercials and stuff. From sodas to bags of potato chips, whatever. What I'm gonna do, after you know, talking with Mr. Cathicart and you, and he told me about a lady that's very specific in knowledge and like herbs and medicinal herbs and stuff like that. What I'm gonna do is I'm gonna get her on the podcast. Yeah, no, no, no. But I'm gonna start putting like clips and or commercials about like, hey, have you seen this weed in your backyard? Guess what? It's an herb that could help your arm, like whatever. All you gotta do is go here and follow the directions. You can just go boil some water and make some tea out of it, and then you don't gotta worry about wasting gas and time to go to the doctor for them to have you sitting up in there looking crazy, just to put a band-aid on it and not like cure whatever your ailment is. Right. I mean, I mean, I mean, I think that's that's that's possible, bro. I could do that.

SPEAKER_02 40:06

100%.

SPEAKER_01 40:06

It might people might say, Oh, he's crazy for doing that, but the intent and the purpose for me doing it, yeah, is it's like I don't want to say the word priceless, but it's I can't even insert whatever word you want to come up with, but that's the best way I can really help people, bro. A part of it at least.

SPEAKER_02 40:23

I just watched this uh this series on National Geographic called Pole the Pole. It's actually Will Smith produced it. I saw something about it. I haven't watched it, but I saw it. It's it's fascinating. Uh and so he's meeting with a guy, and I think that they're in like the Amazon or somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 40:40

Well, I hope he didn't make a joke about his wife.

SPEAKER_02 40:42

No, no. I had to, bro.

SPEAKER_01 40:47

I'm sorry. Go ahead.

unknown 40:49

All right.

SPEAKER_02 40:50

So he goes down in these caves and he finds like these rare bugs and stuff and gets the venom and that sort of thing. But he made a comment, and it's just like, man, the first of all, I can never do that. I'm not, I'm not that guy to be going down, but he's like he's they call it milking, so he's milking like scorpions and these rare bugs and stuff. But he said, you know, you never know that like this could be the cure to cancer. Like I mean, can you imagine with all of the money that we've invested into cancer research to know that there may be a plant or uh some venom from some creature that we probably never seen hidden down in a cave, and that could be the answer to cancer as we know it. If we wiped out cancer, bro, do you know how powerful that would be? But I believe that it's there. Maybe I'm I'm silly enough to believe that there's a plant out there right now, bro, that's been growing. And it might be in all of our backyards, and we don't even realize it could be that simple.

SPEAKER_01 41:54

That's the sad part about it, man. Like it could be. And unfortunately, some people wouldn't be happy about the cure of cancer. And like, I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_02 42:02

Oh no, they would find a way to monetize it.

SPEAKER_01 42:04

Yeah, and that's that's the issue because I honestly feel like God has provided everything we need on earth as is already now. Unfortunately, us as humans, our ancestors had to do a lot of trial and error, and we lost a lot along the way, obviously, right? Yeah, but that information is very sacred and it almost feels like somebody just like what's it called? Like a bank heist, confiscated it. And they got it like in a vault somewhere, yeah. Yeah, and they're like, how can we add this to it, manipulate it this way, and make money out of it? But these different chemical compounds, side effects, whatever, don't worry about that. Although this natural source right here is the source to heal everybody, we're gonna add this stuff over here to make money on it. And bro, that that virus, that that disgusting disease just grew and multiplied on an in an alarming rate, dog. And it's like just so out of control.

SPEAKER_02 42:48

Well, you can't trademark something that God created, right? So without adding all of the chemical compounds to it to now have a patent on it that I can now sell for millions of dollars, that's that's where we're left to, man. So greed. This thing about capitalism is is it's a real thing, man. I mean I think for many of us, especially young black men, we are taught capitalism in a very different sort of way. To earn, earn, earn, spend, spend, and not, and not I like to consider myself more this kind of community capitalist. I think it's okay for us to make money, but there has to be a balance between making money and giving back to the community. And so we just gotta figure that out, man. And like I said, I don't know all the answers. I'm not I'm just trying to figure it out along the way. And I want to work with people who um at least can find something in in me that says, Man, I we don't have to agree on everything. But I found all right, that part of him I can work with. And I all the other stuff, you know, I can leave to the wayside. But that piece I can I can work with them in. And though those are the type of people that I want to work with. I want to work with people who one know who we share love for our community. We share love and an affinity for black people. And we share love for wanting to help our people grow and be better. And sometimes that circle can be small. And so I'm I'm appreciative when I find brothers like yourself, man, that I can find a way to build with.

SPEAKER_01 44:31

Yeah, we're gonna build for sure, man. Before we move on, I wanted to say I had recently heard about some type of plant. It's a tree in the Amazon. It's like dragon something or something of the dragon. Okay. But apparently there's like just a natural like cure, like not cure, so to speak, but basically it'll make neosporin look just like near what? Right. It's just like something naturally that just comes from like the inner part of the bark of the tree or something, bro. And like kills bacteria. Let's take a trip. Um hey, I'm glad you said that. Nah, I'm I'm legit going to uh Peru. Oh wow. Okay in June. All right, that's right. Yeah, because so basically there are students and the anthropology professor over at Winthrop. Okay. They go like every summer, right? Okay. And they like dig for artifacts and they do like carbon dating and stuff like that. So that farmers now can see, looks like reflect back on how the soil was back then, yeah, and what can we learn from it to make it better for now in the future. That's amazing. Yeah, that was actually the longest podcast I did with them. But man, I'm so excited to go over there, man. And there was one thing I didn't mention, um, and I'm glad I didn't. I'm still not gonna say anything, but um, bro, I cannot wait to go over that all. Like just a bit immerse myself in the culture, yeah, practice my Spanish. Yeah. Because uh, I had gone to like France and Spain back with uh with the professor and some other students, some other visitors as well. But that wasn't really it was a good experience, man. But now that I'm in a good headspace, this is gonna be very, very awesome. It's all time. Such an I might uncover something, bro. Like, you know what I'm saying? There's no telling what could happen over there, but I'm really looking forward to it to just like 100% 100% immerse myself in that culture. Well, if I find it, they might I might listen. If I don't come back, if for some reason, listen, I'm making this announcement right now. Look at my face, I ain't playing. Nah, I told my dad, I was like, man, for some reason I'll come back. That means like I found something, they kidnapped me.

SPEAKER_02 46:30

Yeah, no doubt.

SPEAKER_01 46:31

But uh, but no, like seriously, man, just just to be able to have the opportunity to go over there with them, that's amazing, see what they do. I can document it, bro. Like, I'm about to start documenting stuff, I'm about to get this camera. So very skeptical about taking that with me. I'm probably not gonna take that with me. But just as far as being able to document what I can while I'm over the bro, that's uh like I said, bro, and just and one of the students was talking about how like she was over there for a while and she felt like such family, like a family essence feeling with them, and she didn't even really always speak any Spanish, but like after a few days, she just felt like she was like one of the is she of Latino descent or Hispanic descent?

SPEAKER_02 47:07

She's a sister, no. Oh, okay. Well, I mean, I think regardless, I Hey bro, we are brothers and sisters on the outside. No, no, no. I was I was gonna ask you this. Do how many do you know anybody that's been in Peru? I mean, your family, family-wise, not for anybody close to you.

SPEAKER_01 47:21

No, no, no, no, no. The only person that I know that have been that's I mean, shout to John Prado. We should do jujitsu together. But um, I know he's he's been over there, but other than those students, they're the only people that I know that actually visited Peru.

SPEAKER_02 47:34

That that's that's a legacy shift. I mean, you the you're the first person in your family to be able to go to Peru and experience that culture, and then you get an opportunity to come back and tell everybody about it. Yo, that's the promised land, bro, for you. Like, I mean, for what I'm saying is like you're doing something super amazing that nobody in your family's been able to touch. You and I having a conversation, bro. I've never been to Peru. You're getting an opportunity to go. So it's that's that means something. So don't don't gloss over that, man. That's a that's a real.

SPEAKER_01 48:08

I'm so excited about it, man. Just because like I can surf, eat fresh fish, eat some alpacas, go hiking. You said you're gonna eat alpacas? Yeah, that's the main protein over there.

unknown 48:23

Really? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:25

I got a pack of alpacas in a pack of them. I had wrote something out one time, man. But yeah, so that's the main protein. You what?

SPEAKER_02 48:32

Go and eat all the alpacas. Why are you doing why are you looking at me like that? What are you saying, bro? I mean, I when I They're not endangered or nothing. No, I don't think that they are. I just you know something about alpacas, I don't know. No, I've never uh listen, I've never dined on alpaca. I don't know what that's like. So I don't know. Um it is not uh you just can't go pick up alpaca meat at food lines. Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 49:01

You know what was cool, what was what was cool about that, at least to me, was back to the alpacas. Hey folks, we'll be right back.

SPEAKER_04 49:12

I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_01 49:13

But listen, that podcast meant a lot to me because in my mind I was like, I'm gonna put this out, bro. Like most men, even if they don't want to admit it, bro, they they they love Raiders of the Lost Arts. You know what I'm saying? Like being able to go out, like do excavate some artifacts on a journey, adventure. Like that was for y'all and for every little boy that watches stuff like that or likes to go outside or girl, whatever, in between, like it's a great thing. That's what I'm saying, bro. What what what what I see inspires me, what I'm interested in, bro. I want to highlight that and who's actually already out there doing the work. Get them on a podcast. Yeah, let's have a conversation to get everybody excited about it, inspired to be motivated to do these things and to check out your services or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 49:54

Yeah, no, bro. Like, I I love the idea of what you're doing because this is really about expanding the human existence and the human uh the human mind, man, that we don't put any any confines on our greatness and what we can do. So I love the fact that you're going. I I want you to come back and share with me what alpaca tastes like.

SPEAKER_01 50:16

Bro, I'm gonna get an alpaca recipe to knock your socks off.

SPEAKER_02 50:19

Because if not, you know, hey, listen, maybe, maybe I'll start raising alpacas down on the farm. Because I do know that I know the people raise them. I know like alpaca coats and stuff is like a real thing. The wool, alpaca wool is like a thing. So I mean, you know, maybe maybe we'll be the only alpaca farm for meat production.

SPEAKER_01 50:44

I'll be eating squirrel.

SPEAKER_02 50:46

Well, that's because um we're from the south, bro. I've eaten squirrel, deer, yeah, you know, turtles.

SPEAKER_01 50:53

Right, I'm about to say kudos. So why if I done ate a turtle, why wouldn't I eat an alpaca dog?

SPEAKER_02 50:59

Um, because because we don't have more local, I can't. Let's get back to your interview, bro. I'm so I'm so sorry, but that was that made it.

SPEAKER_01 51:12

How did it even come up the whole going to Peru thing?

SPEAKER_02 51:15

We were talking about just remedies and that there were oh yeah, the retreat over there in the bar.

SPEAKER_01 51:21

Yeah, man, they got a whole bunch of stuff going on over there in Amazon. Man, I believe that. I believe that unfound tribes and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02 51:27

I can't wait to come back and maybe I'll interview you about your trip to Peru.

SPEAKER_01 51:31

Yeah, oh yeah. I'm gonna I'm gonna end on this as far as the Peru thing. Yeah, I'm definitely looking forward to getting back and doing the podcast with like everybody that I was dealt with, like the professor and the student and stuff like that. And I don't know. I've been reaching out to Winter regarding a different type of project and waiting to hear back from them. But if not, it's all good. Just a uh a product of your educational doing good for his community. So let's work together for sure. And what pulled you into community economic development in the first place?

SPEAKER_02 52:02

I don't think I knew what community economic development was. So um when we were we worked with the organization, the South Carolina Association for Community Economic Development, who I now work for. When Crystal and I started Victory Gardens, they were the first, it was the first grant that we had ever received for they had a community garden grant. And so um it's like a $3,500 or $5,000 community grant piece, and that's how we started our work with him. And um the president and CEO of the organization just really liked our work, man. I think he he grew up uh down in the Charleston area, and some of the stuff that we were talking about resonated with him. Um being a country boy himself and just growing food and you know, serving the community. I think it just resonated with him. When I thought of community economic development, I only thought about it from the brick and mortar perspective. Like it was it was housing, it it was um things that you can tangibly touch. But the food insecurity or food sovereignty piece of it, I never thought that it was economic development, but in truth, it really is because what we spend on food as opposed to what you know, you can get you can get seeds for a dollar twenty-six cents that'll keep producing over and over again. But then we go into the grocery store and buy that same thing and we spend 20 times more for it, and it uh it may be genetically modified, it may not be as good, it's not at its ripest form, all those things. So, from an economic standpoint, this is how so many of our grandparents, and I say our grandparents were probably one of how many of our children, right? My my dad, my dad is one of 11. I could not imagine. It's the same number I was thinking. Yeah, but I could not imagine raising 11 children, hell on close.

SPEAKER_01 54:12

But I'm hurting them.

SPEAKER_02 54:14

But that's how they were able to do it and put food on the table, bro, because they grew it. And so in the neighborhood that I grew up in in Greensboro, it was nothing for us to share, you know, our surplus from the farm with other other people in the community, and they shared theirs with us. And so that's it's that communal piece of it, man.

SPEAKER_01 54:34

More along the lines of a border system, too.

SPEAKER_02 54:36

Yeah, very much so. Very much so. Like we'd you'll trade a bushel of okra for a bushel of tomatoes. Like that's just how families worked, how the ladies in the community would get together and can. Uh, and then, you know, when winter came, you know, it wasn't no running out to the stores to pick a whole bunch of stuff. They go to that cabin, they pop open a mason jar full of something that they had canned back in July, and it tastes like July, you know. So it the economic perspective of food, I just never really thought that it would be in the community economic development world. So when uh uh Crystal and I made a decision that she would um take over leadership of um Victory Gardens, um, I wanted to I wanted to spread my wings and get out into the space. I called um I called Bernie Mazik for some advice. And two weeks later I was on staff uh with the capacity builder program director position that I'm currently in uh with SkSA. So that's how I got into this world, man, and just went down a rabbit hole and just realized that man, I love this space. I love community economic development, I love it looking at case case studies of what has worked in other communities and just how vast it is. And so it has just really been a labor of love, man. I wish I would have found this area of work, you know, 30 years ago. So I felt like I was at home once I got into it.

SPEAKER_01 56:04

So I hope one day, very soon, somebody with like a bunch of money, bro, like a legit investor, be like, I like what these guys are talking about. We're gonna go ahead and get this thing going.

SPEAKER_02 56:14

Listen, and they're out there, and they'll probably hear this podcast and say, yo, we need to we need to figure it out. But we gotta have a plan. So that's the thing that I think we are what I am trying to work on and develop and work with other people. That when that investor comes, not if, but when that investor comes, we've got a legitimate plan that they can invest in.

SPEAKER_01 56:38

All right, yeah. Keep me posting on that plan, man. Oh, and you um you might want to talk about this like off air, but you had told me about like a group or something. You was developing like a group, and you never call me back about it.

SPEAKER_02 56:53

Bro, I'm always thinking, so I I'm trying to remember what that is.

SPEAKER_01 56:56

Just like local, uh just business owners, a group of people.

SPEAKER_02 57:00

And it's not just, yeah, no, and that's just not me, man. I actually sold into that through Brother Wally, was working with some other some other areas. I think uh I was like, maybe I didn't make the cut. No, no. No, no, no, no, no, no. Brother Wally, I'm so sorry. Like seriously. No, no, but I will tell you, Brother Wally pulls me into a lot of things, man. So I'm uh I'm gonna start pulling people in the way that he pulls me in. But in truth, man, I do think that as black men, man, we've got to find a way to network and work together and build, because that's how other communities have done it, and not a um the one thing I pray for, man, um, and I'm really being intentional about praying for this year, um, is to take the ego out of me so that I can work with other people.

SPEAKER_01 57:47

Just uh right up off Main Street across from Northwestern High School, Carolina Family Jiu-Jitsu, bro.

SPEAKER_02 57:52

No, just come.

SPEAKER_01 57:53

I get that. You gotta be stayed up for a week before you get you before you get your white belt.

SPEAKER_02 57:57

Yeah, no, no, I got it. I mean, and I I've serious listen, bro. I'm I'm former F FOI, so like, you know, uh the martial arts are part of our training. So I I get that. Uh but I I do want to work with other black men in this community, man, with no no ego there. I I need to be around other men that I can grow from too and learn from too. Because I don't, I think I don't have all the answers. The one thing I am learning, if I didn't learn anything else in 2025, bro, is uh I sometimes I just gotta shut the hell up. I gotta shut up. But I what happens is people always ask my opinion. So I'm gonna learn now to just say I don't have one at this particular time and just sit back and just soak up the knowledge.

SPEAKER_01 58:46

Right. Or be like, I can find you someone that would an expert. Yeah. That's why I kind of look it'd be it's funny. I'll I'll be on a podcast and I'll be like, my guest is doing a lot of talking. Like, I'm not really putting anything towards this conversation. But that's actually the art of podcasting. I think as far as my experience, I'm not supposed to do a lot of talking. No, I'm supposed to let my guests, you know. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's it's it's just the evolution of where I started and where I am now is is is is very just breathtaking, just personally to me, just thinking about like how my mind goes through each conversation in between questions, and then I have to jot something down in between or something. So I'm trying to maintain focus while you're talking, but at the same time, I want to jot this down.

SPEAKER_02 59:27

Yeah, no, I know your mind's because we're trying to fit this into an hour, right? We don't got to fit out of it.

SPEAKER_01 59:34

We do got this winter storm coming in if it ever gets uh no listen to it. Listen, listen, for real, y'all. I hope everybody's safe. Um, and I hope y'all are more prepared than I was. I waited two days before the storm's supposed to hit before I decide to go out and try to get a power bank. So um I hope everybody's safe and nobody's power go out. You know what I'm saying? Y'all got somebody around y'all in y'all's area, y'all can depend on. That's the village aspect. And we we can't wait until it's a winter storm coming in to get the calling people and checking up on them and being like, hey, we this that, you know what I'm saying? Like we're supposed to always have our brothers and sisters right there. Stay ready, be dependable, be accountable.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:12

Be ready so you don't have to get ready.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:14

Right. Yeah. Um did you answer that question fully?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:18

Um, about the group. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't think we I don't think I fully did. I don't think I gave you a lot of people. We'll talk more about it.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:24

We'll talk like I said, that's all I'm saying. We might need to talk about that out there. But shout out to um Mr. Kath Car for real. I need to get out there and holler at him.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:29

Yeah, for sure. Come on out.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:31

Yeah, bro, he got bees out there.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:33

Yeah, so matter of fact, I was with um I was with Catherine Martin last night. They're they're her bees. Um that uh and uh we plan on planting some lavender fields out on the farm. So it's gonna provide you know some more plants for bees to pollinate. When y'all gonna plant the lavender? Oh man, um we just we just ordered seeds, bro. So as soon as they come in and we can get out and get some good soil, that's that's the plan.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:56

Hey, please let me know. I like to come out there and help. I I love it, man. And Lyric loves lavender.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:00

Yeah, well, it's uh winter tolerant, what we order too, man. So it's gonna be exciting. I'm excited to see it.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:07

Yo, so we we create these classes on how to create soap. What can you do with lavender to create like some kind of like motion oil like that? I want to learn how to extract oil. Yeah, do all that. It's like a process you go through and all that. We can be creating our own stuff and trading it off, selling it, and just plan, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:25

It's gonna start small, bro. But like over the course of time, man, it's shit, it's gonna grow.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:29

Bro, I am so excited about it, man, and and hopefully get my children involved and that sort of thing. But like, you always wonder, like, if you go into you know, Earthfare and see a little bottle of lavender, like, how did how did it get there? Like, what what happened? What was the process to pull lavender from the plant so that we can get this medicible oil that we use and spend a crap load of money and doing?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:56

I was trying to think that man. Somebody that I know or knew or whatever, like made some stuff out of lavender. I can't remember. I think it was boiled. I don't know. It can easily be a research.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:08

They're putting lavender in like teas and coffees and all kinds of stuff. So, like, it's in everything. I'm looking, I'm looking forward to it, and I'm looking forward to it being. The one thing I do I will say this, not to cut you off, man. Like, Landon Lane is really supposed to be like this. I want it to be, and we got a little ways to go, but I want it to be so visually appealing that when you come out, you can see it visually and it looks beautiful, you can smell it. Like, I want I want the scent of lavender and jasmine and air. Like, bro, do you know how like it's do you know how like refreshing that will be? I'm not talking about just like disconnecting yourself, but when you get there, the goal is like to just immerse yourself in everything that's going on there, man. It's just gonna be fantastic, and it's a big it's such a big undertaking in my mind, man. I see it. I just gotta, and you know how this is, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:04

You got that vision, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:05

Well, you had a vision for this, and now look, bro, you we here.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:10

We here, we bro. I got you here, I got my grandma right there. Oh, Joey Coco Diaz, my favorite comedian. I actually met him, but that's a whole nother story for another day. The locks, hello greatest, realists, yeah, no doubt. I mean, you know, like I dabbled in the streets, you know what I'm saying? I don't claim to be no tough guy, bro. But they do it styles anyway.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:30

Oh, listen, Jada is like by far, but she is like the most underrated lyricist that anybody can ever hear of.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:37

The gorilla, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:38

Yo, man, no doubt.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:39

And uh, shout out to Joe Gordon, man. Uh, that's my guy with Brand Pro who does my merch. Okay. So let me let me know if you need some help with that.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:45

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:46

Um, he gave me that Janice Joplin one. Okay. Then, you know, Alice in Wonderland. We all grew up watching that. I got some artwork that Kiki and Lyric did right there. Yeah. That was uh showed it on the last podcast I uh aired, and the one in the middle lyric did it at school. Okay. And then I got The Grateful Dead, bro. Then I got, you know, and then last but not least, man, my diploma from Winthrop University, bro. And I put that there, bro, because when I was going to school, I was like, let's go ahead and go past Clemson and all that, because I kind of wrote this down before, like in a different podcast, I believe. But when I finally was like, okay, I'm gonna do business administration, but like what concentration? Like, I don't want to do accounting, I don't want to do this. I was like, okay, international business, whatever. I want I want to travel and make money, okay? We're going international this summer, baby. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:31

It's all to Peru, hablando español, order and all coming together.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:37

It it it's it's really it's it's crazy, man, when I wake up and I look in this room sometime, bro. Cause I'm it I came up with a vision with God's help, obviously, and just sticking to the script, just tunnel vision, just trusting in God, walking on faith all up in it, just going, going, going, going, going. Then you look up and look around and wipe the blood off over here and the tear off over here. Yeah, no doubt. Snotting all that.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:04

Then you're like, oh, then you're like, wow. It's the blind. I manifested this.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:08

How did I manifest this, bro?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:10

Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, and there has to be a not to not to get too, you know, spiritual, but there has to be a level of submission in the individual in order for us to get there. Because when you get that type of vision that seems so impossible, and you decide that you're gonna make the impossible possible, there's a level of submission that you there's something inside of you that has to die in order for that to grow. So anybody that has turned into something that just started off with just a thought and an idea and turned it into something tangible. And I I I I love it because what you've done now, man, is you have inspired somebody to make They're impossible, possible. So this platform allows for that, man. So you gotta keep telling that story though, um, so that people know that, yeah, just and it doesn't have to be them wanting to start a podcast. It could be whatever they decided they want to do. Hell, they want to go to the moon. But the point is they could see something in you and turn it into something for themselves and something greater for the community.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:25

Okay, I guess I gotta tell the story now. I went, I was gonna wait till he did the podcast.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:30

I gotta tell it, but I was trying not to cry.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:33

Um, so you remember um my friend Carrie that I mentioned earlier, right? Um about the bird out route and all that. So me and him at Went Camping. And then like on the on the ride home, I was.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:44

I'm sorry. Shout out to all the black campers. It's not a whole lot. Go for it. I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:54

But my brain just went through a million jokes. Um on the ride home, bro. Like, he was explaining to me about like his journey and how he was trying to figure out a way to like start his own business or whatever. You know what I mean? And he's an electrician out in the Asheville area. I was like, yeah, bro, I need that wake-up call too. I need something, dog, because like this ain't working, this job I'm doing, working under somebody, being micromanaged. Like, I just I'm not supposed to be doing this. Like, I got my sense of humor, just like my personality, just me sitting up in this cubicle ain't it, bro. And then I had always you know kind of joked around about doing a podcast because I love podcasts, I love listening to people talk about stuff on in an authentic way and laugh, and it's okay to mess up and stumble on your words, like all the editing stuff is whatever. But so anyway, um, he whenever he would visit Rock Hill to see his mama, I'd be like, bro, I know you be busy, maybe go and see my deuce. But like, I'm right here at five, dog. You can at least stop by and give me a dap in the hood. Like, bro, we ain't gotta talk. Give me a dap in the hood, uh. Got it. So that that was going on for a while. Then like after I surrendered, bruh, this is where it gets deep. You're not from like literally from here. So um there were the two twins, Adam Cox and Will Cox. Um, I met them like in high school because they went to Westminster, which was a private school. Yeah, and then they had a cousin named Daniel Cox. I've known Daniel since elementary school, but they they have all now passed away. Rest in peace. Uh much love to the Cox family. Um I had a dream, and I'm not Mart Luther King. It's January, I'm sorry. Oh, shout out to everybody that was out there at the uh parade. Shout out to my daughter, I did an excellent job, the three foot sheet step team at Old Point Elementary. Okay. Um, bro, I had this dream. And like there was somebody coming down, like it was like I was in the mall, and it was like somebody coming down the escalator, right? Um, you ever seen a low down dirty shame? Yeah, you know when she's coming down at the end of the end of Benjamin. Also, like The Legend of Billy Jean, that's a good movie. It's kind of like that. Like to both of those movies, I love those movies, but it was like that, and I saw somebody coming down. I was like, is that Adam or is that Will? Because you know they're twins. Oh wow. And bro, but back in the day, I could never tell unless I was up close to him, and I saw this area around their eyes. Okay. And like, you know, me and Adam came closer because he went to Clemson as well. We had classes together, we study and everything. But in the dream, when he was coming down the escalator, I was like, I don't want to mess his name up out of respect. I don't want to call him by the wrong name. Wrong name, you know what I'm saying? Then I saw that it was Will. Okay. And it's kind of hard to articulate this, man, because it was a dream, but it was just like I was just getting like this this powerful beam of just light saying respect and love, respect, respect, respect, love, love. Like I was like, that's it, bro. Like the dap for the respect, the hug is for the love. Yeah. The name is like incredible, bro. And I'm like, it's just been under my nose this whole time. Like, what can I do to help people in my area? Because like me going and knocking on the door trying to apply for a job is like with an international business concentration, you know, like what am I like? That's no like specific like mode of like concentration of like expertise. Like, I'm not an accountant, yeah, yeah, or whatever. Name it's a list, the list goes on. So yeah, man, I surrendered, bro. Like, and then I had that dream, and then it was just on and popping since then. And um, like, you know, jujitsu, bro, at the end of each, each, each training session, we all circle up. Yeah, coach gives the person to his left adapting the hug, and then everyone follows the suit all the way around, bro. It's just so connected, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:42

But I think I think the fact that you were able to quiet yourself and find, like, I feel like the universe, God, however you interpret it, the higher being, speaks to us all the time. But we can get so distracted. Because I think we always I say this all the time, like, man, God, I need you to speak clearly to me. Like, I'm that dude. Like, I need you to I need you to write it on the wall for me. I don't need I don't need simple things. I need like I want to come in the house and you say, Jonathan, do this. Right, right. Yeah. That would freak the hell out of me that I wouldn't hear. So it's these little things, man, that comes along. Like right here, over the last week or so, I feel like God is telling me that I need to earn learn Arabic because I keep seeing little things around learning the Arabic, um, being Muslim.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:37

Oh, he sends your signs on the club.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:39

Yo, like I'm seeing it all, and like I'm seeing it everywhere. So I'm like, I had I I laughed. I saw this little clip with this guy who spoke like non-languages, and he he was portraying a waiter inside of this like uh Croatian-Italian restaurant where everybody speaks all these different languages. Yeah, and he's a brother. So he's able to talk to all of them in their own language, and you know, like the hidden camera, people are like and speaking it in their full dialect, and it's just been little things, man, even in my own study of trying to understand Islam. Um, I have to do that and and know the Arabia. I have to know the language to get the full meaning of of the of the scripture. And so I feel like I'm getting ready to try to immerse myself into learning Arabic. So yeah, I know, I know, and but but it again, it's just been these little signs, man. It just kind of keeps coming to me. But I think that that's how the universe speaks to us, man. That is not going to be, I think for us, we're looking for the burning bush. We want something big and like that, but I think it's little signs along the way, man. And as black men, if we're if you're able to hear that in this day and age with so much noise in our life, you heard that call to tell you to do this podcast, and in the in the spirit of which is done, like that's amazing, man. So shout out to you for surrendering yourself to listen to the signs that God or the universe gave you.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:15

Man, I appreciate you so much for saying it. And like back to what I was saying about going around and applying for jobs, it's like if you well, if you drive around, it's just a bunch, a bunch of like um, what do you call it? When it's a bunch of buildings in one little area. Shopping malls. Okay. Bunch of shopping malls, bro. Like, I'm like, I can't really, I don't want to do that. Like, I don't want to drive to Charlotte. Like, I hate I77 traffic in the morning, bro. It's literally life-threatening.

unknown 1:13:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:42

So I was like, then my friend shout out to Jordan Dross, Matthew Jordan Dross. He was like, yo, what I want you to do is just look around. Like, just figure out what is it you can do, like, what kind of service can you provide just to help the people around you, bro? And that's literally what I was doing for about a week or so, man. And I was driving, I was like, that's it, though. Like, because you know, it's like a bunch of like like opportunities on like ZipRecruiter or whatever, like all these other places of profit jobs, like business to business sales. So essentially, that's kind of like what I'm doing now with the um authentic reflections by LLC, excuse me, lyrical miracle LLC. Yeah. But if I walk into a business owner's establishment and I look them in the eye and I shake their hand and I'm authentic and sincere about the conversation that I'm having with them, they're gonna listen. Right. And what what would you have to lose by having a long-form conversation with someone? You know, they'll give you people a listen, they'll watch. Yeah, yeah. You know what I'm saying? People, oh, he's on a podcast.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:35

But that's easy because it was authentic for you to say that it wasn't rehearsed, in other words.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:40

Yeah, and and that's why, as far as like the rejection part of it is very, very low. But I'm not scared of rejection because I worked in collections for like 11 plus years. More than anything, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:50

You realize that this is your purpose and nothing's gonna stop you. So somebody telling you no.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:55

I'm like, okay, I hope they're okay. Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:57

Well, they just literally don't need my help because it doesn't slow you down from what you know that you have to do, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:02

Because it's like a win-win for everybody, yeah. And yeah, I was gonna say something. I'm apologizing.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:09

Well, I just wish more people would get what you've gotten and even what I've gotten, man. I um as we're getting prepared for this storm that's coming in, I get super excited about sheltering in place. Like I I love the concept of sheltering in place, bro. You know how excited I think? Oh, bro, you can't.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:27

I just wait, I'm sorry to cut you off. Let me say this real quick. I'm apologizing to be. No, no, no, no, you're good. I just hope the power done go out. Cause I'm like, you know, if I'm trapped in with the ice, bro, I got the charcoal, I can go outside in the hoodie and the leather jacket, I can cook me some steak and whatever. You know what I'm saying? I can work on my music, I can pull, I can't. I'm so sorry, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:46

I said Alpaca me. I'm so sorry that I keep going back to that, but that's funny to me. I'm sorry. Please forgive me, man. Forgive me for that, man. But I'm I'm a face tie you.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:57

I'm gonna be a face tie you with an output. I'm gonna be on the outpack.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:04

Go for it. We'll go back to the thing. Shelter in place, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:09

How um oh no, but what I was gonna say is I can probably record like my first like solo podcast if I want to. Yeah, no, it's amazing. Um, I can work on my music, you know what I'm saying? I can work on my intro B, outro B, I can write, I can read, whatever, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:23

I found myself doing COVID through shelter in place. So when people talk about COVID, man, I am I know so many people lost their lives, man, and I am I don't take that lightly. And man, I am I am so sorry for those families and for those individuals who who lost their lives in that process. But the concept of sheltering in place, man, was was amazing for me. Uh just being able to not have to go anywhere or be anywhere, and just being able to think process and learning me. Where a lot of, listen, I know marriages ended during COVID. I know that people people have like trauma built around COVID. Uh I I am not, I I I thank God that I am not that. Um, COVID was gratifying for me. So when they were like, listen, this storm is coming in. We're advising people not to leave their house. Bro, I was ready for this on like Tuesday. Like, let's let's do it. Like, I'm I would hate to say this, bro. I was slightly disappointed. And I know that today is our day to shoot this. I was slightly disappointed that it didn't start today. Like, I really wanted to be sheltered and played Saturday, Sunday, and Monday. Like, I like I needed that excuse, not nothing. So nobody will call me and say, Jonathan, I need you to do this because I can't do it. Yo, you see it, you see the road conditions. Best excuse in the world. Always. I don't have to put it on, I can put it on something else. And you'll feel convinced. And I don't feel, yeah, I'm good. I'm good. I can't comb over there, bro. We supposed to be six feet apart. Like that was my that was my story during COVID. Like, yo, I I can't, I can't because of COVID. I mean, and I hadn't had that excuse any longer. So it was good to have uh Ice Storm to be able to say, I can't, I'm reading a fantastic book, or I'm watching a great podcast, or I'm thinking, or I'm strategizing, or I'm right. So I was looking forward to this. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:27

Man, it's crazy, man. Like, what I what I'm what I'm promoting is the exact opposite of like, you know, the six feet distance thing, bro. Because I mean, it's like it was like a my virus, man. Isolate yourself. Like, no, man, like we gotta be together, man. That's why I love jujitsu, bro. We sweat and blood. It's a brotherhood, sisterhood, though, though.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:47

Like, I'm not saying that I want to be in that place all the time. No, no, I'm gonna be a good one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was just saying, but but we do need to find those places, man, that we can still away. There's this book by um Tore Roberts. Um that's uh Bishop TD Jake's uh son-in-law, Sarah, Sarah Jake's Roberts' wife. He wrote a book called Balance. Amazing book, man, about how to balance yourself and that what came out of it, like I said, it's an incredible book, but what came out of it, man, is he and his wife take the separate trips and they just check into a hotel for a weekend or a week and they're just by themselves, that they can think, process, strategize, do all of those things. Sometimes, man, um my jujitsu coach uh explained to me that sometimes, like, if you look at a boxer and that a boxer is in the corner and he's taking all these blows, and he's taking so many blows, he can never get a blow off himself. And that's how life kind of is for us, man, that we're just taking all of these blows from life, that we've never been able to get a blow off to to get ourselves back on the offense. So taking that time out, man. So I've learned, and I need to kind of get back to it, but I've learned like once a quarter to just check myself into a hotel for a weekend and read a book or just be by myself and just think and get a level of clarity and that sort of thing. So I agree with you. I love the community aspect of things, but you also have to you also have to have an opportunity to be by yourself and have a different experience. Um you talk about the locks, and I know you're a fan of hip hop, like I'm a fan of hip hop. Um I had I'm a Wu-Tang fan, like I I love Clan Bro. And so um years ago, when they were first coming on the scene, I had an opportunity. I was working at um WNAA 90.1 and Greensworell at North Carolina T States radio station. And I had an opportunity to interview them on a on a show late at night. And so I kind of asked him, like, how do y'all do y'all like together all the time? And it's like, yeah, when we're on the road. But if we're together all the time, our lyrics are all gonna be about the exact same thing. So we have to spend time apart in order for us to have different experiences to make that when we do come together, we got we can all kind of share different perspectives. So I think for us, man, we if we're trying to build we can't be around each other all the time. I think the communal aspect and the love of just helping each other and sharing with each other is important. But I do think that we need to have time to steal away, man, so that we can experience something different because you know, we we all have different skill sets too. And so, like I got a good friend of mine, shout out to Rob into uh guns, like that's his thing. I'm not into that. So we always said if something ever happens, yo, you come to the farm, right? Because I'ma grow the food and you're gonna help protect. Because we all gotta have a different role. Yeah, everybody can play their role, yeah. Everybody gotta have a different role, bro. So I I say that to say that like I I love having that time to steal away specifically, man, so that I can I can think and process and you know get a blow off on this world that's constantly beating the shit out of us every day, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:41

Right. It's important what you said earlier about uh the brother that you mentioned, who's a gun enthusiast or whatever. Uh shout out to him because like everyone has their own road.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:53

Said his name, damn man.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:54

You said his name?

SPEAKER_02 1:22:55

I did say his name, but they don't have them. Okay, don't worry about it.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:05

Forget that name.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:06

Okay, this is why I brought it up. Yeah. Okay. So during my journey, and when all these ideas was coming to mind, right? The whole concept of human resources changed. Like a switch went off. And I was like, everything that I've been taught about human resources or like on the jobs, or I gotta go into the human resources office or fill out this human resources department. No, I am a resourceful human. Yeah. And that's it's my duty and job to see, meet other people and see what their expertise is in. You know what I'm saying? Like, what is what is this person's skill set? How can they be a part of the movement? Right. And you you basically just nailed it.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:44

But we got to be able to contribute. I was just having this conversation with somebody earlier. Like, yo, you can't, I don't want to be the person who can't contribute. You know what I mean? Like, I I this this idea, because we were talking about Islam, and I know, you know, that's my faith. I don't push it on everything, but the beauty of Islam that I appreciate, man, is the fact that it is about um heightening civilization. And that we all have to be productive, we all have to have something to contribute. I don't want to have to make the decision of saying if something catastrophic happened, I don't want to have to look at another brother in the eye and be like, bro, you have no disrespect, but you don't bring anything to the table. And I'm not talking about money, I'm not saying that you're not a good person, I'm not saying this, that, and but what can you contribute if we're rebuilding society or we're building society, what can you contribute to make things better for all of us? And that has been my that has been my drive in doing this work of Victory Gardens, Landon Lane, South Carolina Association Community Economic Development. It's like I want to be a contributor to society and make society better, make communities better, make people better. If I can't do that, man, then I am taking and I don't want to be extractive. I want to give.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:14

Bro, I feel the same way. Like in doing this podcast, it's like, because you know, I have a business administration degree, very general. But like I have you on. I'm learning from you. Like, what am I contributing? You are like how am I okay, like no, no, no, time. I'm I know, but I'm serious about like rebuilding a break, like a branch of civilization, how we see fit, like how it should be. Like, what can I contribute to that? I mean, you know, I have experience with planting vegetables.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:42

Yeah, no. I'm a decent, I'm a decent shot in a hundred yards. Like, what can I do though? But you are contributing. You dig what I'm saying? Like you, and and I think the the desire and the want to learn is contribution to society. Because if without that seed being planted, no one would do anything. So, like again, you you're a huge contributor, bro.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:06

And I guess the platform is contribution to the culture, and I guess that the people that listen will see and listen to the questions that I'm asking, and they'll see that I'm very interested in doing this, right? And so maybe that'll like trigger something in them to get them to like, oh, let's look into that. And then they'll come want to join and help out.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:23

Real talk to your listeners at home. You are perfecting your craft. This is not some, hey, John, swing by the house and I'm gonna drop this interview on you. Like, you were very like we scheduled this. This is our second time scheduling because I got I got the vid we were talking about early about shelter place the last time I had COVID, and then the storm almost took us out today. But my point is, we had scheduled this out. You had gotten a lot of background on me that I don't even think we've touched. Um, we don't it's okay, it's all good.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:58

I don't I don't yeah, you don't want to get you don't want to get ice name over here, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:01

No, I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna make my way home. But my point is, man, like you really this is not a haphazard sort of thing, man. You were very intentional, you've put a lot of thought, a lot of resources, a lot of time and commitment and your thoughtfulness and how you ask the questions, presented the questions, man. And you can look at previous interviews that from where you started, from where you are now, that's total contribution. And what you're being able to produce now, whether I say something that helps one person or a million people, or you say something that's helped one person, like that's contribution, bro. You're giving back to the community, to civilization in this. So you have and are contributing.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:44

Hey man, I appreciate that. I'm gonna say this real quick. The next time you have an opportunity, like you did that one time when like I had lyric, come help, let me know, because I can get her back involved and we can start back helping.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:55

It listen, it it is always there. So I do because I know we're probably getting ready to close. Out. So I would say this. Um, for those in the community that know about our work, so we have closed um the pharmacy. Um, just wrong time, wrong place. Um, we feel really good, and we'll be making an announcement in a couple weeks about the transition of the pharmacy.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:16

Oh, wait, wait, time out. So let me know what I can do to promote it.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:21

Yeah, for sure. For sure, for sure. So Victory Gardens is still going. Our our mission has not changed. Um, my wife Crystal is now executive director, um, and she is still moving forward. We're still growing food. We still plan on um donating food to a lot of local agencies. Um we will be conducting our youth workforce development program where we're hiring young people to get them interested in agriculture.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:47

Um, and so that process will still go on. Um, but land and lane is our our is our place. So land and give uh email address or web address. You can still contribute and look at all the great work that we're doing with Victory Gardens. You can go to growwithvictory.org. Um so you can find out more information about Victory Gardens and kind of its future and its evolution of where it's going. Land and Lane Homestead and Retreat is our new for-profit business. Um it it will be just that, a retreat space, man. It'll be a place, it'll it's an immersive agricultural um space, man, that people can come out to. We'll have an opportunity where you can stay on the land. Um, we'll have an opportunity for you to work on the land. If you want to work on the land, you can hold events on the land. Um, we're gonna hold tons of events, man. So we're super excited about where that's going. You can learn more about land and lane by going to landandlane retreat.com. And um, yeah, that's where we're at, man. I'm gonna continue to keep learning about this community and economic development industry and getting ideas and processes from um from communities on a national level. And my goal is to continue to bring them back to the state of South Carolina so that we can highlight those those things that are working and bringing them back to York County in Rock Hill and give examples of how other communities are changing lives and see if we can't duplicate the effort.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:18

What time do you got to leave? Bro, we only asked two questions. All right, go ahead. I'm just asking. No, because I want you to get home safe. I don't want you to feel how we I don't want you to feel rushed, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:28

No, no, no, no. I well, the only thing is, bro, I do have to make a stop to get home. But I would love to if if you want, and if time permits, man, I would love to have a part two at some point.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:40

Yeah, part two, three, four, five, six, seven, I wait 11. No, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:43

But no, seriously, man. Um, yeah, like I jumped around a little bit and asked a couple questions off of this format, man. But uh, we got like a lot more to cover. Yeah, we do. I'm gonna say I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:54

No, no, no, listen, no reason to apologize. This was great, bro.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:58

The lovely thing about it is, man, just being at home in my home podcast studio, like, and bruh, like you it feels you a good brother, man. You cool, man. You're doing such great things, man. And just we it's it's almost like we kind of caught up. Yeah, we had to catch up.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:13

Yeah, no, because we haven't seen each other, so that was good. It was good.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:16

Yeah, so ladies and gentlemen, um we'll do it again. Yeah, we uh just stay tuned and be safe over the weekend, man. Uh love each other, look after your neighbors. Um, because they just like you. I mean, they might have different color skin, yeah, walk a different way, whatever, talk a different way, but love is love, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:36

Um it's the human existence, man, that we have to, we're all here as humans, experiencing this thing called life at the same time.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:45

Yeah. But I'm like, man, did I get too comfortable?

unknown 1:31:48

No.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:48

Because we were just going on all these different tangents, man. I felt like I was in calculus classes.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:52

I'm looking at the number of questions that you had on here, bro. I'm they I'm glad we did it the way that we did it. That's a lot of questions, bro.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:59

Yeah, but I just feel like it's some important stuff in here that we should have covered. At the end of the day, what people need to understand is like we sit, we're serious about this, about you know what I'm saying, just like making things better for families, for individuals and families in the community. And um, I'm sure it's a lot of people out there that's just gonna be like, whatever. Keep doing what you're doing, and we're gonna do what we do. Well, and I don't mean that to be like um whatever the word is, what's the word when you say something derogatory? I'm not trying to be derogatory or be negative. I'm just saying, man, like wake up. That's all.

unknown 1:32:34

All right.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:35

And um I hope everybody has a prosperous 2026, bro.

unknown 1:32:39

Oh, amen.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:40

And um, everybody grows, evolves, become better human beings, whether that's through like whatever religion it is, um, whatever martial art it is, even you might not like martial arts. You know what I'm saying? Some people might not like jujitsu and boxing and all that kind of stuff. Some kind of um sport or something, some type of endeavor to where you can find your peace, become a better human being, man, and just be able to be a better contribution to everybody out here because it's a lot of lost people out here, man. I feel like the world is going in a very, very negative direction. And um hopefully our voices will echo. Like, seriously. Like something got to give, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:17

Well, you this platform and what you're doing, and you as an individual gives hope that all is not lost. When you look at Lyric, you can see all is not lost. I just I got a beautiful little grandson at home, man, and he in his interaction, I get to see that all is not lost, man. There's I gotta make things right for him.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:40

Hey, I'm gonna tell you, me and me and Lyric was at a grocery store the other day. I'm gonna tell you what she told me. It's out the blue. We was about to buy some salmon.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:47

She was like, Daddy, I'll give you $400 when you get your blue belt. Look at that.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:52

She was right, she was she was like, but it ain't happening. I was like, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:58

She believed it, she she dangled a little carrot in front of you to give you a little extra motivation.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:03

I'm gonna say something too. I think it's very important that we teach our kids how to defend themselves, right? Oh no. Um, and I really want her to do jujitsu. She used to do it. I'm not gonna make her go and do jujitsu, but what I am gonna do is teach her what I know. Back to the teaching them what we know. Like, that's more motivation for me to like get my black belt, bro. Which that's like a 11-plus year endeavor. You know, I know that sounds crazy, and I take it very seriously. But we lead by example, but like, yeah, man, so the more I learn, I can teach her to be able to defend herself, whether she's at school or wal walking down a dark alley.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:34

But the more you learn, you can also come back and not only teach lyric, but teach the community too. Because sometimes those spaces can be intimidating for a person who just who wants to learn but may be intimidated by the environment. You have a way now of teaching in a different way.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:52

It's a it's a lot of troubled youth. Trouble young men. And you know, I just hope that the people, the leaders that are questioning or wanting to get these young men prepared to help them that they take that last podcast I said serious. All the pastors, everybody. Yeah, well, well, I want to call some names. We can't do that, can't we? Oh, I could edit it out, but it ain't no reason.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:20

You can you can do what you want to do.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:21

I can do it, I can literally do it out more too.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:23

That's but but independence, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:25

And that's that's why I love this, bro. Like, I can just you know, cut up a little bit. Yeah, this is an independent thing. And I mean, that's what people do anyway. Yeah, and I'd be like, man, these businessmen that'd be, you know, they suit and tie and all that. You know, they got their scotch at the house, they whiskey, man. They got one sock halfway off, one side they ain't brush their teeth.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:42

Man, like we all human, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:43

We all the same.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:44

Yo, people have these platforms every day, man, and they get to go on and be their authentic self, and then they realize that there's a bunch of people out there that think the same way that they do about certain things. You're no different, bro. So you'll you'll you'll find your tribe will find you and are listening to you. So keep doing what you're doing, bro. I'm inspired.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:04

Hey, special shout out to uh Jay Miller. He from Rock Hill, right? Okay, found out you're not a Rock Hill. Yeah, he's in Atlanta, man, right now, man. But he be sharing my stuff, bro. Like people, it is what it is, and I'm not trying to sound spiteful or nothing like that, but it's honestly a little disappointing. But you know, people find like they like the ratchet stuff, the super duper funny stuff, or whatever, man. But it's like he's been sharing my stuff, man. Like every time I post something, bro, he shared it.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:30

Intellectual conversation.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:31

And bro, I love because I love you so much for this, bro. I can't wait for me and you, me, you and the I'm to link up, bring Lando, do the podcast, whatever we're gonna do, man. Shout out to you and the Yaman and all your brothers and your whole family, man. And shout out to Jay Shannon too, man. I love you, bro. I don't know you, bro. He just had a birthday. Jay Shannon had a birthday a couple days ago, though. I can depend on him for anything. Bro, like you know how it's rare to find a friend. You can like literally like tire. You know what I'm saying? Come and help me change my tire.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:59

I'm happy you have that, because not everybody does, bro. So it seems like a solid tribe.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:04

And you know what's awesome about it, bro? It motivates me to want to be a better friend. That's what's up. Because a long time, though, I was not dependable. Oh no. Not him making dumb decisions, bro. Not showing up, you know what I'm saying? Just because I'm hungover or whatever, dog. Like, and just the way he carries himself as a father, he takes care of his kids, his family. You know what I'm saying? Like, he he really motivates me, man. I got people in my circle, bro, that I really truly love, and it's all reciprocated, man. And they know who they are.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:29

Um still sharpen, still, bro. So I'm sure they feel the same way about you.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:34

No, it's not a game, though. Yeah. Like, I'm out for blood. And I ain't talking about like trying to kill nobody, hurt nobody. I'm just talking about the way that I'm approaching this podcast. Yeah. You know, you ever watch BMF? Yeah. Oh, it's one of the things. You know that song, I'm out here? Yeah. That's not the song. I got everything on the line, out here, out on the grind, trying to get mine. At least you can wish me luck. Like, that's how I feel, bro. Like, now that I got my editing up, like my ability to flip a podcast to all the dope dealers out there, um, and businessmen and women. Y'all know what I'm talking about. I mean, no, I'm just saying, not that you actually had to sell dope, which is a concept of if I record a podcast, the post-production, I can edit it. How soon can I flip it and put it out?

SPEAKER_02 1:38:18

Yeah, no doubt.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:19

And then it's like the platform, like the distribution. It's like YouTube.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:25

It's like in my language.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:26

It's like allegedly. It's like it's like YouTube, Spotify, iHeart, Apple Podcasts. You can listen to it on all those platforms. Those are my like drug runners. You know, no, no, my dope boys. They got they're just passing out the nickbags or whatever, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:40

And the knowledge of the kicking, though, is real, bro, because we uh our our young brothers have all the knowledge. They just gotta put it in the right, legitimate platform. But bro, there's no better businessman than a young brother off of the streets because they know they know supply and demand, they know distribution, they know, they know all the things. They know how to market a product, they know the bro, they know every single thing. They know a return on investment, they know how much they got invested in each product, which is their unit price, bro. Like, they know this stuff. It may not be in the economic language and forms that they're accustomed to, but bro, there are a whole bunch of cats out on the street that could go run any company with the right opportunity. There are tons of CEOs and mavericks, business sharks out on these streets, man. Anyway, bro, I gotta go.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:34

Can I say something real quick? Go for it. Um, I would be such a hypocrite if, like, you know what I'm saying? Like, regardless of what your past is, I feel like you should get a second, third chance, man. You know what I'm saying? And I don't know. I'm gonna ride a die for my brother, man. He did 11 years in prison, and God released him gave him back to us, to his kids, to his mom and daddy, to me as his cousinslash brother. Thank God for that. And um, you know, I guess some people may think that I don't know, I don't care about image and none of that. Like I ride rock and roll with him, he knows who he is. Shout out to Tay. I love you, bro. And um, yeah, I mean, I'm just saying because I I you hear certain things, and maybe it's a generalized concept of like people posting certain things, and that person might not be going where you're going on your journey. Like, man, I ain't I can't I can't get with that, bro. I can't get with that because he if he was going back to his old ways and you know what I'm saying, dealing dope or whatever, then yeah, that that would be it wouldn't be in my best interest to be around him. Yeah, but that's not the case. I'm super proud of him for that.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:38

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:39

So second chances, I'm telling you, you can't you can't judge somebody and then try to keep them down or anybody else that's affiliated with them.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:47

Yo, we need to take what you're talking about now, man, and we need to turn it into a much bigger movement. We need to get brothers together in one room and have this conversation. There's no reason, man, why we shouldn't be able to go to Burgurna, pull people together and just have a lineup of people just sharing and loving on each other, man, and just have a day where brothers can get together and be their authentic self and learn from each other and be inspired by each other, man. And be inspired by people we gotta get past, man, just because someone is uh from our community, if they don't have any value and they can't say anything to us. We'll go out and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars, man, listening to people who we will never meet and listen to them share their wisdom. When their cats right here and I on the street corner or in in our community that we go by and touch every day and we gloss over whatever they say.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:40

Yeah, and not only him, but like them as well, the wisdom and knowledge that they have that they can speak back to the youth coming up, say, hey, I know exactly what you're thinking. I've been there, I tie my shoe the same way. Do not stop. Yeah, yeah. No, don't do it.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:52

The worst mistake, man. I always say this about, especially when you're raising boys, the worst mistake that I can make is for my son to make the same mistake that I did. That means I never taught him anything. So, yo, we gotta give an opportunity for brothers of all walks of life, whether you were the straight narrow kid that went off to school, earned a degree, doing your thing, or you the brother that maybe did made some poor choices, went through that system, realized that that that game wasn't the right game, came back out and did your thing. Like they all have value and worth, man, and we can all learn something for all of them, man. So I encourage you, and I'll I'll support in any way, bro. We gotta find that platform and that way for us. We're gonna do it.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:34

Yeah, we're gonna do it. I'm gonna let you get out of here, man. Cause I was gonna say I want to circle back though, real quick. You had said something about like us growing up and something about mental health, man. We need to talk about the mental health thing because we all went through certain stuff and we it was never talked about.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:47

Yep. Even in my generation, no, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:50

But I was talking to my therapist one day. He was like, You need to write a book.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:52

Well, here's a good thing. You're talking to a therapist. Many of us need therapy, bro. And we gotta we gotta get away from this negative idea that therapy is not for us. We all need therapy. All of us. So shout out to all the black mental health professionals, man. Uh, and if there are any in our community, we definitely need to have them come and share and talk. And but we gotta create environments where if I share something that is personal and intimate to me, I gotta trust and believe that it won't go past that. You know what I'm saying? I think that that's that's where a lot of men have trouble with with sharing those very personal things about it. And so we just keep it to ourselves because we don't trust anybody well enough that we can tell those things too. Right? Vulnerability is something, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:48

Yeah, I'm trying to break that, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:50

We all are, bro.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:51

You know, I'll be on the junk sharing so much stuff, man, and just to you know, dip into my well of emotions and experiences to see if somebody else can relate to it, bro, and be like, okay, it's I'll I'll hope it's not lost. It's okay to admit that it's it's okay to go seek help. Yeah, it's okay to want to be better.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:10

We gotta get to that place, and that's a tough that's that's that's a tough thing, man. If I have any wish or prayer, man, I wish that our community would help. I think in that kind of going back to your question earlier when you asked, and I was saying that I don't know if there's this one thing maybe it is, maybe healing isn't. If we could get our people to heal from the trauma, that's that one, right? Like, yo, I would think I would think so. Yeah, I think if we could learn to start healing and getting past that, man, and and it's kind of like a a cup being full, right? If we could if we could spill all of that out and get rid of all of that old negative thought and healing, then we we're an open vessel to take on new ideas and new thoughts, new ways.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:57

So Yeah, like we need to get some um some therapists on board. Yeah, no doubt. And have a conversation. I wish I had money, man. I wish I could just like fund certain stuff. You just keep doing it. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 1:45:11

Like just keep doing the work, bro. The money will come.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:13

Yeah. I mean, I do want to buy a new truck, obviously, but I'm talking about like to help people. Like, I'm not gonna bring that up. Um, just like for this though, I wish I could, you know, just like help fund the first month of therapy or the first week of therapy for a single father with a daughter that has primary custody of his daughter or whatever, you know what I'm saying? Or vice versa, with a baby. Um, sorry, I was gonna say a baby mama. No, a single mother with like one to multiple kids, man. Like, I wish I could like fund.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:40

But this is where it starts, though, bro. And you you speak it into existence. So the mere fact that you ask and somebody's gonna hear this, and maybe there's somebody out there.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:49

Bro, they're gonna they're gonna cut the podcast off when they hit them with alpaca.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:52

Come on. Well, well, they it's not so much the alpaca, it's you barbecuing alpaca that probably is the problem. Yo, let's dap and hug, man. Let's dap and hug a little bit. Hey, I'm gonna listen to viewers.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:04

I love you all, be safe. Um, peace.