Ep 26 Butt Baby

Our first-ever guest joins the chaos as Hamish shares his Confest experience (brace yourself), Billie unpacks the gender bias behind “reference man,” and we somehow end up debating whether insects deserve legal rights — and why flies are long overdue for a PR rebrand.

⚠️ Content warning: contains colourful language, festival chaos, unexpected feminism, and strong opinions about insects. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_06 0:00

This podcast contains strong language, bad decisions, and zero regrets. You've been warned. Just say Confest is an inclusive temporary city with a series of intentional village communities.

SPEAKER_01 0:21

I'm not gonna say that. I think you just said that. Hi everyone. It's Dream Jesus.

SPEAKER_07 0:28

Hi.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

Billy's eating dumplings. I have a mouthful of dumplings. And and Emma is is pondering Confest. Because we just had a drop-in um from Hamish and it it sounds like a fun place to be. Yeah. Confest sounds like a very fun place to be.

SPEAKER_05 0:46

Yep. And Emma and and I were talking about whether or not we could actually go to somewhere like Confest. I reckon in my 20s I would have gone. Would have been fun. At 55, not quite so sure I would be comfortable going.

SPEAKER_01 0:59

I would have enjoyed you in your 20s at Confest.

SPEAKER_05 1:01

You did.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

Oh yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:04

But twigs and mud. But Confest being a festival, free spirit, free thought, free clothing because it's clothing optional. It's a place where you can go and do yoga, you can start a chakra aligned, go in um do anything you want, really, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 1:35

Can we start a line of clothing where it it's optional?

SPEAKER_05 1:38

Clothing optional is called the is what the clothing's called, yeah. Clothing optional clothing. And so Ham has dropped in to um to chat with us a bit about Confest. So uh here's our chat.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

Hamish has dropped in to give us a little bit of a an update on a recent adventure of his. Um and we just wanted to kind of hear, you know, the inside story of what really happens at Confest these days, because we've heard, you know, the legends.

SPEAKER_00 2:07

But well, as a first-time confester and also invited by my son, who's 18, um, I've never heard of it before except until late last year. And yes, it's it's just a hippie festival. Um it's been going for 50 years, apparently, and this year was the 50th anniversary, so it was quite a busy one.

SPEAKER_06 2:27

But can you tell tell the people where it is and how you actually get there?

SPEAKER_00 2:31

Uh so it's up near Dinilquin, uh about 50 minutes past Dinilquin. And um, yeah, just in a farm somewhere.

SPEAKER_06 2:38

And you've got just a big paddock.

SPEAKER_00 2:41

Well, it's a big paddock, but then um there's also a forested area where you camp, and there's a river, and by the river is the saunas and and um the spas. And also a tent that I did not experience, but it's called the consent tent.

SPEAKER_05 2:58

You you were you were talking about this before going. Tell us a bit more about what the consent tent is.

SPEAKER_00 3:05

Um well actually I was speaking of some the old timers there as well.

SPEAKER_06 3:08

So apparently And um Tracy, no, what were their names?

SPEAKER_00 3:11

Uh um Joyce. Well, maybe they won't don't want it their names. They they might be like anti- We don't know their surnames, yeah. Well, they all know who they are. Shout out to uh Wayne and Joyce. Yeah, Wayne and Joyce.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

Wayne and Joyce.

SPEAKER_00 3:25

Um well yeah, apparently Confess used to be a bit more um sort of political and world event type sort of protest type thing, but now these days it's more like yoga and self pleasure. Self-advancement self-advancement.

SPEAKER_05 3:42

Um Emma's blocking in his ears already. She had she had a hard enough time with Dempsey's sex swing, and now we've got the consent tent.

SPEAKER_00 3:50

No, well, apparently, even uh, I don't know, five years ago or something, there used to be like cuddle parties, and everyone just gets oiled up oiled up. That sounds so cute. Just imagine a pit of oil and people were just in there, but then I think there was some issues here and there about consent, perhaps. Uh okay. And now it's all moved to a tent. Okay. Okay. So my experience was just So the cuddle party was more political.

SPEAKER_01 4:11

This is the political stuff you're you're harking back.

SPEAKER_00 4:14

Possibly.

SPEAKER_06 4:15

So it's I'll vote for them. Explain the facilities, the toileting and the shower. That's what Emma wants to know about.

SPEAKER_00 4:23

My my experience was just um mostly yoga and meditation, and then I just read my book and drink beers, and then um danced around the fire a bit at night. And um, but it was a little bit lonely by myself, even though I was with Jay, he was with a mate, so he just went off. And um, so yeah, I don't know. It would have been nice to have Emma there.

SPEAKER_06 4:43

Um in the cuddle tent. Again, mention the toilet conditions. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:48

Well, yes.

SPEAKER_06 4:49

It was just This is why Emma didn't go.

SPEAKER_00 4:51

Yeah, pretty much it dropped toilet. Yeah, it was a bit nasty. It was okay. Depends on what time you go.

SPEAKER_06 4:57

How many days is the festival?

SPEAKER_00 4:59

Uh five nights. Oh yeah, I only spent three nights there.

SPEAKER_06 5:02

So by day three, how was the toilet looking and smelling?

SPEAKER_00 5:05

Fine, fine, actually. You you told me it was Well, some of it was bad, but then again, I was speaking to someone just yesterday, and they said they've been to festivals where people forget to empty the thing and the the poo just overflows. Oh but I didn't experience any of that.

SPEAKER_06 5:21

Um what about what about the mud? Talk about mud truck.

SPEAKER_00 5:24

Yeah, yeah, okay. So what related to the.

SPEAKER_06 5:27

What was the weather? How was the weather?

SPEAKER_00 5:29

Oh, lovely. It was like 28 degrees on the first. So there was there's a lot of nudity as well. Um all genders, all ages, um, all shapes and sizes, everything you can think of. So um anyway, so when I was telling people it was my first one and that I'd done Mud Tribe the first day, they're like, oh wow, you're really jumping straight into it.

SPEAKER_05 5:47

What's mud tribe?

SPEAKER_00 5:49

So that is um you head down the river and you cover yourself in mud and sticks and leaves.

SPEAKER_06 5:55

Um not wearing any clothes.

SPEAKER_00 5:58

There's about 30 of us, and then you pretty much you pretend to be an advanced species that have come from space, and you now travel around the confest, like the market areas, the um oh there's new people, there's new people walking everywhere as well.

SPEAKER_05 6:14

Yeah, so you go you cover yourself in sticks and mud, and then you go back to where everyone else is. Yes. As an alien.

SPEAKER_00 6:22

As an alien, yes. And the and the humans are the primitive people, right?

SPEAKER_06 6:25

So with muddy bits, yeah, and sticks on the muddy bits. Yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

We've de-evolved not to cover ourselves with mud sticks and berries.

SPEAKER_00 6:33

Yeah, yeah. So, and you just go around and just cause a bit of mayhem and stuff like that. With twigs and berries. Yes. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 6:39

With twigs and berries.

SPEAKER_05 6:41

Did you did you know what this was before you partout?

SPEAKER_00 6:43

Uh not exactly, but I knew I knew most of it. So the funny thing though is I was talking to um uh this woman there, so she was beside me, covered in mud and sticks, and and then um uh these two, she's about my age, and these two um 16-year-old girls or whatever walk would come up and they're like, Mom, no! And their friends are there laughing as well, and she's and the mum's like, oh, that's hilarious, because all they wanted was their friends not to see me nude. Yeah, and then here she is, just full glory.

SPEAKER_02 7:15

Uh well, full muddy, sticky glory.

SPEAKER_05 7:18

And I'm assuming that um Jay was not at the mud fest.

SPEAKER_06 7:22

No, no, he was. Jay was next to Hamish, they're both nude, mudding it up, and then Jay suggested Hamish go down the mud slide.

SPEAKER_00 7:30

Oh yeah, the mud slide was a bit rough. You're gonna say with all the sticks and stuff. Yeah, and then I warned some other people who were coming down. Just be a bit careful. Slightly abrasive. I didn't need to need to wax this week. Stick and no.

SPEAKER_05 7:48

Oh my god. Not that I wax anyway, but yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:52

No.

SPEAKER_06 7:55

Uh yeah, and probably a good thing you didn't go. I know, I know. And then also people have not showered for like days. Then they're in the mud.

SPEAKER_05 8:04

How do you get the stick and mud off you?

SPEAKER_00 8:05

Uh you're in the river, uh, but there is they do have um yeah, the sauna and the spas and the shower are all run by a fire. So they've got like a the shower is pretty cool. It was like a steampunk type thing. You've got a big reservoir of water with a fire underneath it, then there's crazy pipes coming out of it, and they're all touched to trees, and you just turn the and the the hot water comes out, you know.

SPEAKER_05 8:23

So that's awesome. I know I think we said before, you said take some photos, and you said there's no no phones, no photos allowed. Fair enough. Good, good, good. Yes, I love that.

SPEAKER_01 8:32

Based upon what I mean, you can take a look at it.

SPEAKER_02 8:34

You can take some photos here and there, but you're not meant to be. Well, there is that too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's it. Yeah, I've invented a phone stick. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 8:44

Just having in your mud pocket. Oh, what was it?

SPEAKER_05 8:47

So, what was what was your main takeaway from it? What was the best bit? How was the yoga?

SPEAKER_00 8:52

Yoga was good. Uh, it was funny. The first yoga I went to was a bit more like let it all out, so it was like and um let out all the demons, I guess. I don't know. I was like, mmm, this one's not really for me, so I went to another one.

SPEAKER_06 9:06

Ham, what about the woman that was uh there was a woman that asked you the time because she was heading to the consent tent, but then there was a woman heading to a tent that you were not allowed to enter.

SPEAKER_00 9:16

Oh no, no, I think no, you can go anywhere you want.

SPEAKER_06 9:18

Could you go into that?

SPEAKER_00 9:19

I assume so.

SPEAKER_06 9:20

The vagina tent.

SPEAKER_00 9:21

Yeah, the vulva tent. I think it was called the Volva tent.

SPEAKER_06 9:23

Yeah, what's the Volva tent?

SPEAKER_00 9:26

I don't know. So what what I didn't go in there, but what well they're not really tents, they're like open, so there's plenty of spaces around, right? And um and anyone can hold a workshop in there. Like if you if you want to do a workshop, you just put your name up and then So no qualifications necessarily. So that's why you gotta yeah, you gotta take it all with a bit of grain of salt.

SPEAKER_06 9:46

Well, that's why Hamish went to Wayne's knife sharpening workshop, though, and that was very useful. You know how fun our knives are. You guys have no.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

My knife came back as sharp as Wayne sharpened your knife? No, I sharpened my knife in front of Wayne.

SPEAKER_06 9:59

Did you know that was happening and did you take a knife with you?

SPEAKER_00 10:02

Yeah, I took my knife, my own knife, and sharpened it in front of Wayne while Wayne watched on.

SPEAKER_05 10:06

It's a bit of a worry that you took your knife with you. Did you know that was there?

SPEAKER_01 10:09

Uh yeah, because no phones but knives are allowed. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 10:13

No, because there's a big communal kitchen and he was cooking up drunken noodles.

SPEAKER_00 10:18

Uh okay, so there's cooking areas that you and you can just um cook whatever you want there, but there's two or three communal kitchens where you can go if you help chop vegetables and stuff like that, or you can cook whatever you want for enough people and you can get free food and things. So all vegetarian.

SPEAKER_01 10:31

Yeah, that's awesome. I really like that idea.

SPEAKER_00 10:33

Yeah, so that was good. Um, yeah, there's uh yeah.

SPEAKER_06 10:38

So you didn't go to the Volva workshop, you went to the knife sharpening.

SPEAKER_00 10:42

I love the way you call it a workshop.

SPEAKER_06 10:44

Yeah, I have to workshop my Volva. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:47

Well, they have things like shamanistic sound healing. Come on, baby, it's it's early in the day. Yeah, so shamanistic sound healing, stuff like that.

SPEAKER_06 10:57

What about what about your ask me anything and your comfort scale?

SPEAKER_01 11:01

Actually, there's something on that. I heard something the other day. There was a is it 421 hertz? There's there's a really specific frequency that apparently has a soothing effect.

SPEAKER_06 11:12

It's a frequency in my fart, too.

SPEAKER_00 11:15

Isn't that the brown note, Emma? Yeah, I think that's a much lower frequency. Brown. Yeah, because back when you back when you were younger, we thought of a computer virus that you see you monitor your sound system, your computer plays the brown sound, everyone's just shitting themselves around the whole world.

SPEAKER_05 11:30

I love that.

unknown 11:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:33

Way worse than um Stu Necks or whatever, stut next or whatever it was. Stuck Snap.

SPEAKER_01 11:41

Um no, seriously, there is apparently there's there's a specific frequency that actually is used quite a lot to to calm people, and it's used a lot in calming music and things like this. It sort of comes up a lot. Um but the the thing that really weirded me out is that we've got you know the A440 pitch system, right? So, you know, all keyboards and modern stuff is all based around this concept of A440, which is completely arbitrary, right? There is no such thing as perfect pitch, it's a complete wank. Um but that 421 or whatever the frequency is, it's something around that um has some meaningful thing. So maybe we should just shift the entire um you know scale of music down a few frequencies and then we would feel good every time anyone hits an A.

SPEAKER_00 12:29

Yeah, it sounds nice. Yeah, right. I'm I'm I'd be up for that.

SPEAKER_06 12:32

What about Ask Me Anything Tent?

SPEAKER_00 12:35

Um I went to meet uh so did you say Ask Me Anything Tent? Ask. Ask with a K with a K with a K. Um Actually, I saw a friend of mine there um who I haven't seen.

SPEAKER_06 12:47

In the Ask Me Anything? No, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

So we were in the Bliss Kitchen where you cook all the food, and I was like, Oh Ben. And he goes, Oh, I'll be down at the uh open mic tent at open mic tent. Yes, so like stand up or anything you want, singing or stay. Uh there was a oh man, I'm going next to you. Yeah, uh there was comedy, there was um someone went up and did a political rant. So you do what it do whatever you want.

SPEAKER_06 13:11

He was doing guitar and singing.

unknown 13:13

Cool.

SPEAKER_00 13:14

Uh no, he was just watching, but anyway, he said, meet me at five. Anyway, I thought he said five, I think he meant seven. Anyway, so I went down that five. I'm like, oh, he's not here. And then someone's like, You here for the workshop? I'm like, sure. Didn't even know what it was. Man, I like it. Yeah, yeah. Um, and I think there were about maybe eight people, I can't remember. But um, he's like, Alright, we're gonna sit down, it'll be like a ask me anything type thing. Like, you or you can ask people to do anything you want. You don't have to, but he goes, first of all, we'll start with um intimacy level. I was like, oh god, what have I got myself into? What scale do you measure intimacy level? Yeah, well, he goes, uh okay. Oh yeah, the scale the gunty scale.

SPEAKER_06 13:55

The gunty scale, 57. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:58

Um, so oh yeah, he goes, all right, close your eyes, and he goes, zero is like no intimacy. And I was like, boom, hand goes up. And then he moves up to he got up to like five or something, and it was like uh exchange of body fluids. And um, and then he goes, okay, everyone open their eyes. He goes, That's at five. Yeah, he goes, Wow. Now most people are happy with five. Um we only had a couple on zero.

SPEAKER_05 14:25

Does that mean that um that that you take the average of the room?

SPEAKER_00 14:29

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 14:30

So if you said zero, you still have to do the average of the room?

SPEAKER_00 14:32

No, I just said um, I go, well, I I'll let everyone know I was zero. And he goes, I just didn't want to out you know he goes, I would have looked after you. But um, I think everyone everyone kept it sort of quite mild anyway. So it was like uh some people got a massage, maybe, and yeah. Um yeah. So no actual body bodily fluids were. No, no, not this time. Maybe uh maybe I brought the room down. No, like yeah, maybe drop the average. Yeah, the average went down.

SPEAKER_05 15:00

So will you be returning?

SPEAKER_00 15:02

Um actually I said Emma, I would if Emma came with me, because um, like I said, it was as a solo person, I found it a little bit um still um were there many solo people there? Uh I did run into a couple.

SPEAKER_06 15:14

Um what about the guy in the robe that was looking for the consent tent?

SPEAKER_00 15:19

Uh yeah, he was in completely the wrong. I was down the I was down in Tranquility Village in consent tents like a long way away, and he's just cruising around in a robe. I said, excuse me, do you do you need a hand? He goes, uh yeah, I'm looking for the consent tent. I said, uh, yeah, you're in the wrong spot here. So um I know I said, nice robe, bro. That's right. Anyway, I pointed him in the right direction. He goes, Oh, because I'm running a workshop on that. Okay, hold on.

SPEAKER_05 15:45

He's running a workshop in the consent tent. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:48

There was a couple of lost people. Yeah. Their eyes were a little bit all over the shop. So I now um Jay's mate had a bunch of mushrooms. I was gonna say how many hallucinogens are involved in this process. First of all, he's funny because um he likes to work out and uh the mattress I gave him was slowly deflating overnight. So I said, I was like, mate, sorry about that. I'm sorry, I gave you such a bung mattress. He goes, Oh, it doesn't really matter, I can sort of sleep anywhere because my back muscles are so huge. And then he came back. Yeah, and then he came back with these mushrooms and he's like, they won't work on me because I'm so huge. I'm like, okay, mate, no worries.

SPEAKER_05 16:25

So he's found the mushrooms there.

SPEAKER_00 16:26

No, no, he bought them.

SPEAKER_05 16:28

Yeah, yeah, bought them there, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:29

Yeah, and then uh then he was staring at a wall for an hour. Look at they didn't work on him, and then he just turned to me and goes, I'm tripping balls. So yeah, he's 19. He's 19, by the way.

SPEAKER_06 16:46

Thanks for joining us on the pod.

SPEAKER_00 16:48

My pleasure. It was an adventure, and I would go back if Emma came with me.

SPEAKER_06 16:52

Not gonna happen. Emma's gonna run a workshop.

SPEAKER_05 16:56

Margie, will you go with him? Yes, okay. I think Em needs to go run a workshop. You can do you can do a mindfulness workshop there, Em.

SPEAKER_00 17:03

So I would go back, um, but not as solo again. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:06

I'll come in there next time. Oh, okay. We'll we'll do the stand-up tent.

SPEAKER_00 17:10

Okay. Would you come mud tribe with me? Sure. No worries. Might as well dive riding in.

SPEAKER_02 17:18

What level of consent is that requirement?

SPEAKER_06 17:23

Actually, I could see you two there. Actually, really good.

SPEAKER_00 17:26

I reckon, you know what? I'd go with Gunther. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 17:28

Yeah, here you go. Seriously? Yeah, yeah, it would.

SPEAKER_00 17:31

Alright, cool. All right, all right, thank you all. See ya.

SPEAKER_05 17:37

So, M, does that take place of your uh deep dive? Is your Ace Ham in the deep dive for the time?

SPEAKER_06 17:42

That's my contribution to this set.

SPEAKER_05 17:44

Thanks. Yep, I bought him. I prepared him earlier. So I've got a prepared I got a question for you. Do you want my uh bias against women thinking or do you want my animal?

SPEAKER_01 17:59

I want the bias against women.

SPEAKER_05 18:00

I want both. Okay. Well the bias against the.

SPEAKER_01 18:01

Well, yes, I definitely want both.

SPEAKER_05 18:02

Okay, the bias against women, um, I'm sure Gunter will have heard about, and Emma probably has heard about as well. Because, and I don't know why it keeps coming up in my things that I'm reading at the moment, but Reference Man comes up a lot. You've never heard of reference man? Have you heard of reference man in the world?

SPEAKER_06 18:20

Oh, yes, actually I have. I'm sure you will. The medical model, a crash test dummy, so much is based on a man. So even the office temperature is based on a comfortable level for the average inverted commas male, crash test dummy, average inverted commas male. Um, there's a lot of medical misogyny because hips, etc. The replacement parts are based on reference man. Yes, yes. Rather than it's reference man. I wanna be.

SPEAKER_05 18:51

Reference man. Yeah. Reference. Reference man. So we're just gonna beat into that. Reference man. Oh god. Um, so yes, so that's where my bias against women, my gender bias was coming up because Does that make me a Republican? Um it's going for the reference. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 19:22

That was very funny. The faces go, what the fuck is happening?

SPEAKER_02 19:27

I'm talking about Donald Trump with his whole YMCA.

SPEAKER_05 19:31

Yes, okay. No, we weren't thinking that. Yes. Yeah. Anyway, um explaining the jokes is so much funnier. But there were things that that um are based on reference man that I'd never thought of. So for example, the hand holds on trams and trains, the height of those is based on reference reference man, right? So it's not even anti- it's not even biased in this women, it's biased in anyone that's not that uh height, you know, but it's based on that height. So is the reference man, as M said, you know, Caucasian 25 to 30 year old man, 70 kilos, 170 centimetres tall. Yes, right? That's reference man.

SPEAKER_01 20:10

70 kilos, J.

SPEAKER_05 20:11

Yeah. And so, but there's crazy things like M said uh airbags are based on that. Uh where the airbag hits you is based on that. So if you're a woman and you're shorter or you know, stuff that's gonna hit you in different places. Razors, power tools and things, like you know, where your hand is and how big your hand is.

SPEAKER_01 20:29

I can say razors is probably reasonable to have man somewhere related to it.

SPEAKER_05 20:34

Yeah, yeah, but women use razors and they haven't changed that for one year.

SPEAKER_01 20:37

Yeah, sure, but you know.

SPEAKER_05 20:38

Yeah. But even things like musical instruments and the the things like, you know, they were all based on these.

SPEAKER_01 20:46

So is that why they call it the horn?

SPEAKER_05 20:48

And yes, that's why they call it the horn. But the thing that I and I'm I'm pretty sure we talked about this, but I'm not sure. That you know, uh especially things like in the military, so the boots and the backpacks, all those things that people have to wear, because men, you know, there were no women in the military, and now there are, they haven't remade or adjusted things, they're just the same things, but for women.

SPEAKER_01 21:11

But for example, and and spacesuits.

SPEAKER_05 21:14

Space suits. That's a the thing, going back to M's one from last episode, is that yeah, the the women in space and they didn't adjust the spacesuits, and then when they were panicking because they thought, you know, how many tampons do we have to have in the massively overstocked. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 21:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 21:32

Um, but did you know that disposable pads and tampons weren't tested on real blood until 2023?

SPEAKER_01 21:38

Get fucked.

SPEAKER_05 21:39

Yeah. Now I did read recently. I think Emma I really talked about this.

SPEAKER_01 21:44

Were they tested on on the blue dye that we put in tickets?

SPEAKER_05 21:47

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly. I remember that.

SPEAKER_06 21:50

All of Duncan. Yeah, in the water. So it was literally just actually cold. Or was she called Duncan?

SPEAKER_03 21:57

Because Duncan or That was just coincidental.

SPEAKER_06 22:01

No, yeah, I got that convinced. But no, there was blue it was never even blood. They couldn't allude to the fact that it was and even with this, it wasn't it's not red water, it's not anything.

SPEAKER_05 22:09

It's not even the viscosity of what actual blood is. And period blood, sorry, good to you not getting gross out, but it's but period blood is also a different viscosity than blood blood, because it's not blood, it's the lining. Yes. So you know, it's it's different again. Yes, it's different again. And it it's not tested on that till three years ago. It's out three years ago.

SPEAKER_01 22:30

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 22:30

And because it was men who had made the product and did the product and all of that sort of stuff. So So we win. Woo! Isn't that the most ridiculous thing? And then I was reading up.

SPEAKER_01 22:41

Sorry, Aaron, I know that was no, you know, but yeah, but I was weird.

SPEAKER_05 22:45

Then reading up about prescriptions winter. And 75% women are more likely to get a reaction to prescriptions and medication than men because the amount is tested for is factored in for reference men for the height and the weight of the of the average.

SPEAKER_01 23:05

Is that why is that why none of the drugs work on me? Because you know I'm I'm just twice the size of a reference man.

SPEAKER_05 23:11

Reference man.

SPEAKER_06 23:11

Yeah. Um but also uh the I think I've spoken about it on the pod. Yeah. The uh warning signs for heart attack are very different for women than they are for men. And yet you only hear the ones for men. You only hear about the men.

SPEAKER_01 23:24

Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 23:26

I don't even think it was acknowledged.

SPEAKER_01 23:27

What are we talking about?

SPEAKER_06 23:28

Um women are more likely to have things like nausea and vomiting and non not get the experience of pain down the arm.

SPEAKER_01 23:36

Oh, so the that that whole pain in the arm thing is is a male is more dominant.

SPEAKER_06 23:41

Yeah, tends to be more a male representation.

SPEAKER_05 23:44

But I went right like I did it, I did an Emma deep dive, so I kind of went right into it. And it's I'm I'm fascinated that it's 2026 and how much stuff is still like made around reference man. And also when they go and they end up do making something for specifically for women, it's then like has to be either it's either the same thing in coloured, like razors and such, it's still the same, and or we get a pink tax. We get it's more expensive because you know, oh, but we have to make it differently for you, you know. So it's you know, it's it's what they call the pink tax. You know, it's a women because it's a women's version of it. It's you know, more expensive, yet it's exactly the same. They've just had to re-make it at the at a different um, you know, different hand strength or a different, you know, because and I suppose it goes again it goes towards the fact that we've now slightly, not a lot, slightly moving away from the gendered things of oh, power tools are for men and only men use power tools. Yes, a lot of men still use power tools, and yes, it's still a majority of men would use or buy power tools. But it doesn't mean a woman wouldn't pick up the that power tool that's in their house and use it, but they're not against their man. Against the man. Yeah, but it's you know, it's the it's that why I have these several holes. But it's even crazy things like light, like little light things like surgical tools for doctors. They're all got the the length of them and everything is still for based on that male reference bandwidth.

SPEAKER_06 25:20

And I argue that a lot of women use power tools. I think it's split.

SPEAKER_05 25:24

Oh I but I think these days, yes, we're heading more towards that.

SPEAKER_06 25:28

But still defined by gender are also becoming increasingly challenged. But I think that did this come up through readings a signed by school bill originally.

SPEAKER_05 25:38

No, no, no. It was just um I think I was reading it, I literally was reading an article about it, and you came up with reference man, something about reference man. I think it was about um a woman who was suing because she was suing reference man. No, well, no, she was suing, she was suing the car company because she had an accident and got hit with the um the airbag went off and she didn't get like she had a she had a lot of damage from it. No, because it hit her and smashed her face more so than where it's meant to go on your chest or wherever it's meant to. Well, it's meant to be because she's shorter. Well, I actually no, it's meant to go in your chest to stop you going forward. Oh, I thought that was a faith thing. Well, but anyway, whenever it was, she she got a lot of damage around it, and she was suing them because they didn't take into consideration the height, and then that was talking about reference man, and I'm like, who the fuck's reference man? And yeah, it's been around since like the 20s or even before the 20s, but they started doing more on this specific person, as in this is now what we will use as our reference for you know everything's you said, Em, that crash, the crash test, dunny, dummy, dummy. Um, I don't I really don't want to watch those those tests. But do you know what? The toilet seat, probably all those things are probably based on this freaking reference man. Reference man. Yeah, I the height of the the height of it, all that sort of stuff. Like it's there's so much stuff when you look into it that is based on this particular person. You don't fit into reference men.

SPEAKER_04 27:08

No, fuck not.

SPEAKER_05 27:09

You know, you're taller for one, you you're bigger.

SPEAKER_01 27:11

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 27:12

Um, you know, I wouldn't fit into reference. There'd be these days also, people are taller than they were in the 1920s. People are slightly bigger, and their hands are bigger. We do different. My man hands. I do have man hands, so I would be fine.

SPEAKER_01 27:30

Like literally, no, no, no, no, no, this is not an insult in any way, shape, or form.

SPEAKER_05 27:35

But that we can put them up. I have big hands.

SPEAKER_01 27:37

And she has fingers, yeah. And I have big hands.

SPEAKER_05 27:40

Yeah, yes, yeah. I don't have big hands, it's a strength. I love it, Billy. It may have got little Tyrannosaurus Rex, but I think piano, like you know, Billy Joel.

SPEAKER_01 27:50

Yeah. Because you've got the stride. Is that called a stride? What's what's the um the span thing that you can do? Is it the stride or is I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 27:58

I've never heard of the stride. Wind span. Um I thought I thought that um this may come up because you teach in an all-girls school, and I thought how important that would be.

SPEAKER_05 28:07

No, but it would be I think it would be fascinating to for the girls to actually go in and see just how many things how many things were actually made for that. Because it's it's crazy things, it's height of benches, it's you know, it's it's all sorts of things are really, really made due to this particular one reference man. Like it's a general like thing that they do, and they haven't changed it.

SPEAKER_06 28:31

So many things, sorry, yeah, please um people would argue that it it's essential to have some sort of universal technical. Don't disagree, don't disagree. Yeah, but this is the issue is that why is it based around this very um and again leaning into discourse? Yeah the discourse of the male, yeah, a white male of this very specific, narrow, and when it's unchallenged, yes, it becomes um an unrecognized bias. It's an unconscious bias. Exactly, because it's a belief that this is the world that it is in.

SPEAKER_01 29:03

It's treated as an axiom, yeah. Um where it's got not it it's arbitrary, yeah. Right, and and so it's a a foundational point of of logic that you then must move on from, right? But there's no basis in logic at all.

SPEAKER_05 29:19

No, no, but also to not even go back, and this is what what got me as well, it's you know, 1920s, we're now in a hundred years on. Haven't they gone back and gone, oh, what's our average height now? You know, and not just our average height of men, what's our average height of people? Yeah, there was a great West Wing episode. Therefore, do we need to change our seats in the cars or our where our you know thing hits when we hit a car, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:45

Where they were going, well, you know, the definition of the CPI, um, or the you know, the the the the minimum wage or whatever it was, you know, was defined by you know some Polish girl from the 60s um based on what was happening at the time. And it's like we're doing this stuff all the time because we we use these indexes for all sorts of stuff, right? And we reuse them and reuse them and re-reuse them, but we're you know, what's it actually based on? You know, when rent was a small priority versus food, then it becomes dis disproportionately different, right? So, you know, now rent is crazy expensive and food is less expensive, arguably. Right. And so therefore your concept of of your actual CPI index blows out is is is totally kind of distorted. Yes. So how do you then define who's poor, who's not poor, who's suffering, who's not suffering, if you're basing it on something that's completely outdated as a measure.

SPEAKER_06 30:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:45

Which is reference man kind of stuff done in in a different way.

SPEAKER_06 30:49

Well, even um, so my cousin works in the public service very high up in um government in Canberra, and um there was a super superannuation program that she was the last one to get onto. She's my age, they stopped it because similarly, it was based on the premise that one the man would be earning the income. Yeah, the woman would be your classic homemaker, and so then the super needed to provide for the man and spouse because the woman had not accumulated any independent income and her own superannuation. Yes, so it was a two-person in and so then they're like, well, hang on, this is not, I mean, it's very convenient for government to do, of course, but you know, looking at in terms of progression of society and what has changed, yeah, but when that doesn't happen, when there's not an interrogation or a critical lens applied, it you end up with these standardized norms which in fact are not equal, and they have elements of um inequality or inequity embedded intrinsically.

SPEAKER_01 31:56

And and you know, right there, you you even said it in in the description. It's based upon the concept of a couple. Yes. What about singles? Yes, yes. What about people who are never, you know, or you know, didn't survive that's all thruples. Well truples.

SPEAKER_06 32:13

What about people that like ice cream? Remember that ad?

SPEAKER_03 32:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 32:18

Who can who can be a um a foster carer? Yeah. And then the kids are saying all the different things.

SPEAKER_05 32:24

And yeah, people who like ice cream. Yeah, because they were trying to get people to foster. And so it was one of those progressive ones as anyone can be a single person, can an older person can, a younger person can, even people who like ice cream can be.

SPEAKER_04 32:36

I totally don't like that.

SPEAKER_06 32:38

Wow, I can't believe you don't have that one. Yeah. What about my um a crocodile came out, beat me, and then?

SPEAKER_05 32:46

Oh, I remember that one. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:47

And my guts went that way.

SPEAKER_05 32:48

My guts went, yeah. Oh, that little kid, he was on the phone. I heard him, actually heard him on the radio the other day. He was doing it. He was talking about it and how you know he still gets people come up to him and say, do the bit, do the bit. You know, because my guts went in. Oh, he'd be in his 40s. Does he still look the same? I I it was on the radio. He's I'm gonna say he's taller. Yeah, yeah. You know, when they got him on, they were talking about what's iconically Australian. Yeah. And someone rang up and said, Oh, this is iconically Australian. And he rang in and went, yes, work in any other country. No, and like me a pin, yeah, ping up. And what about not happy Jan? Not happy Jan. That's a very, very strange thing. Um, anyway, didn't mean to bring things down, just it was it's been fascinating to me. Because you know what it's like when we're talking about observational bias. Now that I've been reading all these things about um gender bias, I've now got observation bias. Is it because it keeps coming up? Like I keep seeing it, and every time I go and do things.

SPEAKER_01 33:52

It's the basis of institutional bias, which becomes the basis of learning bias, which becomes the basis of knowledge bias, which becomes the basis of actual, you know, everything else bias, right?

SPEAKER_06 34:03

And I epistematic ep epistemic epistemology.

SPEAKER_01 34:08

And then ontology ontology as well. Epistemic bias.

SPEAKER_06 34:12

These guys are just pulling epistemics.

SPEAKER_07 34:14

No, this is a real word. Epistemic bias.

SPEAKER_06 34:16

And then there's a whole bias against um what is knowledge and who owns and creates knowledge, and who gets to decide this is knowledge, this is not. And then there's um ontological. Oh Jesus. You can tell them's been a uni.

SPEAKER_01 34:31

Hey, I'm I'm big on ontology. I'm I'm I I've been working on a lot of ontology stuff and I've I've spent a lot of time on ontology. What's ontology?

SPEAKER_05 34:42

It's the for those people who don't know, it's dislistening. Can you explain it good to us? Sure.

SPEAKER_01 34:46

I know, but you know, just just just to it's it's the structural organizational aspect of things. So if you wanted to say that you know, uh a given system is described a certain way, you're basically describing its ontology, how how you organize or categorize it.

SPEAKER_05 35:05

And the system itself, bitch.

SPEAKER_01 35:06

It's kind of meta-categorization knowledge.

SPEAKER_05 35:09

Okay, yeah, well, that would relate to you and your business and what you use.

SPEAKER_01 35:12

Oh, obviously, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 35:13

Alright, so I'm gonna move I'm gonna move on from there and talk about an animal. Yes. And then and then we'll do your book. Alright, so I thought this was really interesting. So um I know we talk about a lot about animals, and and I'm into one of M's favourites, The Guardian, and um was reading, so she may well have heard this because I know she reads it every day. Um, stingless bees from the Amazon have been granted legal rights. Whoa!

SPEAKER_01 35:43

Legal rights to do what?

SPEAKER_05 35:44

In the world. So to not be killed and to not be harmed. Wow. Yeah. So they're the planets ones. They're the planet's oldest bee species, and they're the primary pollinators in the Amazon, and um they're under competition from killer bees, and from, of course, the um rainforest like everything being deforestation. So they've become the first insect ever to be granted legal rights anywhere in the world. In a breakthrough, supporters hope will be catalyst for similar moves to protect bees elsewhere. It means that across a broad swathe of the Peruvian, Peruvian, sorry, Amazon, the rainforest bees now have the right to exist and flourish. And like it's it's amazing. And they were cultivated by indigenous peoples. So they used to be killer bees, and then they got cultivated to become like the more that they I don't know how they bred them or bred them or did what they did, but they're now stingless bees. And they are the highest pollinators and sustain the biodiversity and the ecosystem in the rainforests, they're massively important to that, but they faced also got some in the world. Is that what you were talking about? But they are faced with deadly um with with death because of climate change and deforestation and pesticides. So now they are protected, they're not only on the International Conservation List, it's now law. That's amazing. I just it for me, you just go, how does that work? Like, how does our laws that are traditionally for police that? Yeah, but how how do our laws that are I killed a big laws laws are for people? And this I bicentennial man for some reason goes in my head where he was a robot and then was that Robin Williams? Yeah, Robin Williams, and was saying, you know, he wants to he wants a law, but they can't give him rights to be human because he's not human, he was a robot. How do we put our human law to say that an insect has the right? This particular one insect has the right to live and to thrive, like other than an ant or uh something like that. I mean it's clearly important. But uh I it just was the weirdest thing. So I I love it. I love that there's this bee now, and we know how important bees are to um biodiversity and to ecosystems, and you know, that's one of the big worries they say when the bees are gone, but you know, we won't survive. Um well actually I have a whole bit on Okay, so in weirdly, weirdly, now has something very similar.

SPEAKER_01 38:30

I I have something completely related.

SPEAKER_05 38:33

Okay, that's weird.

SPEAKER_01 38:34

Yeah, but yes and this is you know totally not related to it. What's in the book? In the book? It's in the book. What's in the book today? And it is in the book. It is in your book, yeah. I've got a whole bit on it, and I've got multiple pages of it. Um so have you ever heard of the hoverfly?

SPEAKER_06 38:51

Hoverfly? No.

SPEAKER_01 38:53

Right. It turns out that the hoverfly is kind of the the the partner to the bee. So bees pollinate flowers mostly.

SPEAKER_06 39:05

Hoverflies pollinate poo.

SPEAKER_01 39:07

No.

SPEAKER_03 39:08

But they take the poo and they put it in Emma's drink.

SPEAKER_01 39:11

Though they interestingly you say that they they actually they do um thrive in poo and and waste and and to try to be stagnant in a pool and stuff like this, right? So they require quite a complex ecosystem for them to survive. Yes. Right, but they um The hoverfly. The hoverfly.

SPEAKER_06 39:31

I'm gonna Google it and then you can't do it.

SPEAKER_05 39:32

And it named that because the it hovers over things. Oh, there you go. There's tyrannosaurus. Sorry, I've got tyrannosaurus hands, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:39

Um but let me let me there are 6,000 species worldwide. Whoa. Right?

SPEAKER_06 39:46

6,000 species.

SPEAKER_01 39:47

Of hoverfly. Right?

SPEAKER_06 39:49

They actually look more like a wasp.

SPEAKER_01 39:53

Bees pollinate 80% of flowering plants.

SPEAKER_06 39:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 39:57

Hoverflies pollinate 72% of all food crop.

SPEAKER_05 40:03

Oh, do all food crops flower?

SPEAKER_01 40:07

Well, some do, and and and and whatever, you know.

SPEAKER_05 40:09

To be pollinated, it has to have pollen, doesn't it? And pollen's come from flowers. It looks more like a wasp. Oh, it does look like a wasp. It does not look like a fly. When you see a few, I want flies of that. If I saw that, I would think it's a bee. And I've probably do they happen in Australia?

SPEAKER_06 40:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 40:24

I've probably killed some thinking they're bees.

SPEAKER_01 40:26

Yeah. Um so they feed on pollen and nectar much like bees do. Um, but they have slightly different tastes. Okay. And the larvae have to be, you know, rotting plants, dung, um, decomposing, rotting matters.

unknown 40:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 40:48

Um and and some of the stuff. Um interestingly, some can even filter bacteria from water. So in in principle, they could even help clean up sewerage.

SPEAKER_07 41:00

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 41:01

Which is a fascinating kind of side thing, right? But the extinction risk in the 1980s to 2013, when we have the data on this, right, bees have declined by 25%.

SPEAKER_07 41:13

Oh shit. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 41:15

Hoverflies have declined by 24%.

SPEAKER_05 41:18

Why is no one why is no one out there giving it a few people?

SPEAKER_01 41:22

Well, people are, but you know no one's really hearing them.

SPEAKER_05 41:26

No, because it's weird to say flies.

SPEAKER_01 41:31

In in Germany.

SPEAKER_06 41:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:34

In Germany, 80% have decreased in the last 40 years. 80% decrease in Germany.

SPEAKER_06 41:42

Oh, 80% decrease, not 80% have decreased.

SPEAKER_01 41:44

So I there's only 20% left of hoverflies in Germany. Obviously, they're doing better studies than everyone else in keeping up.

SPEAKER_06 41:52

What does that mean for your people?

SPEAKER_01 41:54

Well, yeah, pollination, not good.

SPEAKER_06 41:56

Yeah, the crops.

SPEAKER_01 41:57

My people. You're talking about my people.

SPEAKER_06 41:58

Yeah, your people.

SPEAKER_01 41:59

Oh, thank you.

SPEAKER_06 42:00

The Germans.

SPEAKER_01 42:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 42:04

Oh shit. 80%. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 42:07

So what's what's do they do the little little tests like they do here in our park where they have the little catches for the different bees and flies and things, and they're not going to be able to do that. Oh, quite possibly I don't know how many people.

SPEAKER_01 42:18

I don't know the mechanism of of how they they test this. Have you seen them, Emma, on your box? I've not seen them. I'm going to assume that someone sensible has done something sensible about that.

SPEAKER_06 42:25

But what what is the factor that's made it so much greater over there? Like, is it pollution? Is it um you know, knocking for developments, huge hards in developments?

SPEAKER_05 42:36

Is it just because they're doing the research and there probably is that same loss in everywhere else? They're more analogies.

SPEAKER_01 42:44

Yeah, yeah, the the likelihood is that what Germany is doing is reflecting what the world is doing. Yeah. Right. Um it's it's a fairly good.

SPEAKER_06 42:51

But they're very efficient at Germany.

SPEAKER_01 42:53

They are. Um We are. Um so pollution, pesticide, intensive agriculture.

SPEAKER_05 43:02

Same all the same things as well. Livestock farming are the major factors.

SPEAKER_01 43:08

Right? Yeah, but all of the you know, feed the people stuff is really fucking up the biodiversity. Yeah. Right? As it always has been. And we know have known about this for a very long time.

SPEAKER_05 43:20

So who's taking the the um hoverfly to court to get them protected?

SPEAKER_01 43:25

Exactly. Exactly, right? And you're talking about protections of bees, the hoverfly is actually almost more important than the bee. Yeah, no one talks about hoverflies. Bees have got all the good PR. Well, you haven't heard of them, right? So so that's exactly the point, right?

SPEAKER_06 43:42

Um so Do you know what I did have, sorry, just briefly in my head? Marty McFly from Back to the Feature. Hoverbore.

SPEAKER_07 43:51

Yeah, Marty McFly. Marty McFly.

SPEAKER_05 43:54

Yeah. And do you know what I had in my head is how much I'm enjoying my little fly wand over there. Now I feel Now I feel really bad. Have you got any hoverfotflies? No, I haven't been. I haven't killed any hoverflies about it.

SPEAKER_06 44:04

Have you got any Marty McF hoverflies? Hoverfly?

SPEAKER_05 44:09

No, but he's sure he wouldn't like my wonder. Oh dear. Oh Guta. So terrible.

SPEAKER_01 44:16

Yeah, and and look, and you know, I'm not trying to bring everyone down. It it's it's but it's interesting stuff, right? Um and so what's actually happening at the moment is that people are pro-bee and we're trying to repopulate bee populations, right? Which is fantastic. Yeah. Love it, love it as a thought. It's fantastic. But unfortunately, it's also having a detrimental effect on hoverflies, which is a problem in itself.

SPEAKER_05 44:41

So if there's more bees, are there less hoverflies?

SPEAKER_01 44:44

Repopulating bees is a$300 million a year industry.

SPEAKER_03 44:48

Shit.

SPEAKER_01 44:48

Right.

SPEAKER_03 44:49

No wonder they want to protect them then in the that's probably costly.

SPEAKER_01 44:57

Right? They don't really need anything else because they go back to the hive and they survive in that. Hoverflies need this incredibly complex ecosystem of you know stagnant pools and and and rotting wood and and these sorts of things because their larvae need to isn't that in nature though as well?

SPEAKER_03 45:12

But are we knocking their natural habits happening? But the nature is going away. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 45:15

Because we're using it for farming and and and so on and so forth, right? So we're we're taking away the nature. We're we're building you know more houses on it and we're putting hives in for the bees but no stagnant water in for the flies. Yeah, right. So all this stuff that actually is very, very important is not actually, you know, we're we're actively um taking this away, right? Um and but also at the same time, we're there's uh the well-intentioned and beautiful people trying to repopulate the bee population, are putting hives all over the place. But what happens is that the bee populations then br introduce uh diseases into the hover flight populations and and sort of existed together out out no no they haven't because they haven't existed together. Well they've had they've obviously existed together, but they've had their own kind of vibes, you know, their own kind of realms. And what's happening now is that the bees, the repopulation of bees And we're bringing in to bees in areas where they weren't.

SPEAKER_05 46:20

Introducing them where they shouldn't be.

SPEAKER_01 46:22

Right. And we're not reintroducing hoverflies where they should be. So we're we're indiscriminately kind of putting bees in places that they shouldn't be without consideration of the implications there. So they then outcompete the hoverflies and the hoverflies die off.

SPEAKER_05 46:39

So Gunto, I I charge you with creating on your AI a little um save the hoverfly poster so we can have a campaign to save the hoverfly. Well, now he's already written it. He has got a whole page. He's just looking down his book going, you know me so well, boy. It's on my um t-shirts. I've made t-shirts already. They've got little wings on the back. They're not fairies. No, I'm not dressed up as a fairy this year, I'm dressed up as a hoverfly.

SPEAKER_06 47:11

Hoverfly. What if you give the hoverflies miniature Thanos fist?

SPEAKER_05 47:16

And they're on each on six little eggs, six little hoverflies. Snap. Pew pew pew. They can kill the um kill the bees. Yep. You need to move them to the rainforest and then someone will save them. Because as soon as you go, the rainforest is going away. That's the I know, but well that's that's why they're keeping the hoverflies are doing fine in the rainforest before people take it away. I know. Yeah. This is we we all just got the biggest shock because I believe someone's at the door. He's back! Hey Micha's back. You just scared the crap out of your life.

SPEAKER_06 47:47

Like literally, I've shat myself.

SPEAKER_00 47:52

I just want to throw back quickly to confess because uh I spoke quickly about I spoke quickly about Wayne and Joyce, my neighbours. Yes. Uh now as I was leaving, I've now returned.

SPEAKER_05 48:02

But uh Thanks for doing that. I think we've picked up on that, yeah. Long time leaver, first time returner.

SPEAKER_02 48:10

I've received non-time listener, two-time.

SPEAKER_05 48:15

Hang on, wait for him. You should move the microphone.

SPEAKER_00 48:18

I've actually received a text from Len and Joyce.

SPEAKER_05 48:21

Oh, I love it. Did you tell him did you tell them that you were there on the podcast? No. Did you listen to it? Okay.

SPEAKER_00 48:26

I'll give you the gist of it. It's like great having you as our neighbour, really enjoyed your company. And then he goes on to give me some tips on knife sharpening.

SPEAKER_06 48:33

Can you please share? Share with the listeners. Okay. Maggie will love it.

SPEAKER_00 48:37

Uh, one tip on knife sharpening I thought you'd appreciate. Use a whiteboard marker or other felt tip pen to colour in the bevel you want to sharpen. As you sharpen, the colour will be ground away. It will help you visually see how your angle is holding up during sharpening and allow you to adjust.

SPEAKER_01 48:51

Yes, I know this one.

SPEAKER_05 48:52

That's a good, that's a good tip.

SPEAKER_00 48:54

It's a good tip. Well, maybe maybe you guys could do knife sharpening next time. Yes, I I think our listeners will love the knife sharpening episode.

SPEAKER_05 49:03

And and also, Hamish, please don't suggest that to Gunda because he has about five different fucking knife sharpening kits in the middle of the room.

SPEAKER_01 49:09

That's actually true.

SPEAKER_05 49:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:11

Unfortunately, very true.

SPEAKER_06 49:12

Make sure you text him back because that's very thoughtful.

SPEAKER_00 49:15

And and give him a link to the pod.

SPEAKER_05 49:17

But I do already have enough friends, so and he'll hear that.

SPEAKER_01 49:24

Are you saying we're doing this out of desperation?

SPEAKER_05 49:26

No, not us. The people other people. The people that haven't made the cut.

SPEAKER_06 49:31

That's what he's saying.

SPEAKER_05 49:33

Mike and Joyce?

SPEAKER_00 49:34

Now I feel bad. Cut all that out.

SPEAKER_06 49:36

Okay, I'll go. Yeah, it's clean. You need to text him back.

SPEAKER_00 49:39

It's not the confess spirit, is it? Well, you need to text him back? Um, sure, I will.

SPEAKER_06 49:44

Didn't that sound believable?

SPEAKER_00 49:46

No.

SPEAKER_06 49:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:47

No, not even vaguely.

SPEAKER_06 49:48

Please. Text it out.

SPEAKER_00 49:51

Evan, you don't even know them and you've got like um secondhand, secondhand um anxiety about it.

SPEAKER_05 50:01

That was a real plea.

SPEAKER_00 50:02

You'll never see you'll never see them ever again. I could block them and it wouldn't matter.

SPEAKER_06 50:07

No, Evan, I feel so bad. He was very kind. Please. Just so it was a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00 50:14

Well, no, they weren't, but they were raw vegans. Raw vegans? Raw. Oh, so they're not anything. No, no. They ate enough pig drink. I had some of I had some of their food actually. It was pretty good.

SPEAKER_05 50:24

I don't know how vegans who raw vegans surprise like surprise.

SPEAKER_00 50:27

No, so they had a lot of.

SPEAKER_05 50:30

I don't know how they're surprised.

SPEAKER_00 50:31

They had a lot of activated legumes. Oh. So it's like like you get lentils and you put them in water, I think, and then they sprout a little bit, and that's been activated.

SPEAKER_02 50:45

Emma and Billy are just laughing there. Something about being activated. What's going on?

SPEAKER_05 50:57

It was more about something I said and how I said it. And Emma thinks I'm racist. Again. Castelle, she just looked at me and went. So no, I'm sorry. I interrupted your act.

SPEAKER_00 51:10

What did you say that made tomorrow?

SPEAKER_06 51:13

Ah, you said surprised in that sounded more like Borat, but when you said it, it was a different accent which you've been told not to use.

SPEAKER_05 51:30

Sorry. We were talking about being a raw vegan. Oh, but so what can't they eat? Anything cooked? So had you had to bait the almonds. No, nothing warm.

SPEAKER_06 51:41

No, nothing warm.

SPEAKER_00 51:43

No, no.

SPEAKER_06 51:43

What if it gets warmed in the sun?

SPEAKER_00 51:45

That's fine, I guess.

SPEAKER_06 51:46

Okay. But I've got anxiety. I need him to respond to that message. Feeling very please.

SPEAKER_00 51:52

I'll just write back things.

SPEAKER_05 51:53

Hang on! Hang on, no, ham, ham, ham, ham. Now I think we need to have a live um I'll call up. I'll call. No, not a call. No, not a call up. That would be weird.

SPEAKER_02 52:03

We know that people listen to this later, right? So nothing about this is live.

SPEAKER_05 52:08

No, no, no, but I think you should have randomly should be.

SPEAKER_02 52:11

Here's the phone number if you want to download it. 1-800.

SPEAKER_05 52:15

But chatting about you on the podcast can um 1-800 permission. Do you give us permission to uh chat about you on the on my uh wife's very famous podcast? Listen to in about 12 countries around the world.

SPEAKER_01 52:29

12 countries?

SPEAKER_05 52:30

Yeah, we've got new ones. Texas.

SPEAKER_00 52:34

As much as they want it to be one of the people. It's still not.

SPEAKER_02 52:41

Even though Texas thinks it is. They really want it to be.

SPEAKER_06 52:45

Texas. Oh my god, this is what I have to read to you. I was trying to be smart to my dad, but I'm not smart. And I have my feelings, but it's true. Well, you're not smart in maths. No. Okay, so dad texted me. Ah, let me find it. I was like, um Sao Paulo.

SPEAKER_05 53:09

Oh yeah, as Em said, America, we've got some more Texas, Utah. Um, and you might know where this is. Your geography is pretty good, Hamish. Imbabura.

SPEAKER_00 53:21

Yeah, I know where that is. Where? It's like north.

SPEAKER_02 53:28

We're in Australia. Fair guess. I'm gonna say, yeah. No, I've never heard of it. Solid guess. Is it an island looking?

SPEAKER_05 53:37

Ecuador. Oh, Ecuador. Oh, amazing. Thank you to our Ecuadorian listeners. Listener. Singular. We love you.

SPEAKER_06 53:46

So I I'm 45. Um, and my dad sent me a text message. Um, I'd sent him a photo of something, and he said, Great pick. I've lived in Australia for 52 years. Today is English. And I said, Wow. And four years after that, you had me. And he writes back, no. And I said, 52 minus 46. Now I see. Actually, yeah, I'm I'm nearly, am I 46 or 45? Anyway, I said, now I see we as we know, maths is not my strong point. Then the next day I went into the city and I took a photo of the amazing tower made of brick that is very tall for its time when it was built. And I sent him a photo of that.

SPEAKER_01 54:32

We're talking about the one in Collingwood?

SPEAKER_06 54:34

In um Melbourne Central.

SPEAKER_01 54:36

Oh, that one, okay.

SPEAKER_06 54:37

I said, um, Dad, this is called the Bullet Tower. It was used to make bullets, dropping the hot metal from a great height. And he writes, they are called shot towers. A shot is a hot piece of metal. A bullet is constructed by Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 55:02

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 55:11

Randomly on the way down.

SPEAKER_02 55:13

Very constructive.

SPEAKER_01 55:15

Except the gunpowder on the way as well. Do you know the one that's at the end of the eastern freeway um going into the city? No. On the right hand side, just as you enter the the Is it the one that looks like a hotel?

SPEAKER_05 55:28

Uh they may well have made it into hotel now.

SPEAKER_01 55:30

No, no.

SPEAKER_05 55:31

You're talking about the tiny one on the way out to the belt.

SPEAKER_01 55:34

No.

SPEAKER_06 55:35

It's called It's an art piece. It's so stupid, it's not even funny. Continue.

SPEAKER_02 55:40

I'm laughing.

SPEAKER_01 55:42

There's a brilliant shot tower on on that's like a like they haven't knocked it down. It's been there for years and years and years and years and years. And when I was in my 20s, we used to live kind of three blocks away from it. And so every now and then I'd get just drunk enough to climb it.

SPEAKER_06 56:01

No.

SPEAKER_01 56:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:02

Internally or externally?

SPEAKER_01 56:03

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Internally. Yeah, I did do the grappling hook thing and and and and scale my way up. No. Like Batman. But internally. But internally it was it was dangerous as fuck. Because it was rusted down. It basically had a spiral staircase running the inside of the all the way up.

SPEAKER_06 56:24

She's obviously in various stages of decay.

SPEAKER_01 56:26

Yeah, yeah, it had big gaps.

SPEAKER_06 56:28

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 56:28

Like, you know, we're talking like two-meter gaps in in the stairs, and the rest of them were rusty as fuck anyway. Right? So you kind of went, okay, I'm gonna jump onto that next one, but I don't know if it'll take my weight, and yada yada yada. Did that twice, got right up to the top, and felt very good about that for some odd reason. But you know, when people talk about brains not forming properly until they're 25, yeah, there's a reason for that. Because that was just me going, okay, I can't die. I'm immortal, right? Yes, but the chance of me dying was probably 50-50 the whole time. Related. The 3D printing with m Mosquito proboski. I'm not quite sure what the plural is of the nose. Yeah, that Emma's making a Emma's just doing this weird fucking hand movement with them.

SPEAKER_05 57:30

That's what they're doing.

SPEAKER_00 57:30

Yeah, you're doing dinosaur arms. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 57:33

Are you talking about the bit that sticks out the front? Yeah, the stinger bit.

SPEAKER_00 57:37

Yeah, they've got that colour. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 57:40

That's a stinger.

SPEAKER_01 57:41

Yeah, the thing that's a big thing. Stinger sucks in. Yeah. Yeah. It's called 3D Necro printing. Which is kind of creepy.

SPEAKER_06 57:48

Necro is dead.

SPEAKER_01 57:49

Like you know, pitch black and Riddick or Vendasel stuff, you know. Um researchers in Canada, McGill Uni in Montreal specifically, are working on a 3D printing replacement for tissue and organ printing. And they were looking for a very, very small nozzle to do it. And they couldn't make one artificially.

SPEAKER_05 58:19

So they started looking at Oh, they're gonna pull the things off insects. They're gonna pull the things off mosquitoes. That's messed up.

SPEAKER_01 58:28

They couldn't do anything to find out. Does anyone care about mosquitoes?

SPEAKER_05 58:34

You're there.

SPEAKER_01 58:34

And then I was like, yes, I got you.

SPEAKER_06 58:39

We electrify them.

SPEAKER_05 58:39

We electrify them. Let's pull the things off before we electrify them and then donate them.

SPEAKER_01 58:45

So the problem with there was not it was very difficult to produce something at the sort of scale it's needed for the the accuracy. So they tried um uh snake teeth.

SPEAKER_05 58:58

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 58:59

You know, with the venom kind of aspect of it.

SPEAKER_05 59:02

Anything that's hollow.

SPEAKER_01 59:03

Yep, scorpion stingers. Um and it turns out mosquito proboski are very good. Um specifically the female Egyptian mosquitoes called the uh uh deities uh gypti. Um and they use a bio ink called uh puronic F127, which can build a scaffolding for bio uh biological tissue, um, including blood vessels and potentially organs. So the concept that we can actually print you know internal organs now is uh actually a possibility.

SPEAKER_06 59:46

That's wild. So they use the probiscus dipped in pre-humanoid stuff to make a baseload or is it flowing through that?

SPEAKER_01 59:56

No, no, it's flowing through it. But how does it make it? The proboscis lasts about two weeks.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:00

How do they get the ink thin enough to go through the bottom? Well, that's the nature of the ink that I just mentioned, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:05

Um but it was the nozzle was the problem. They couldn't get it thicker enough and small enough to get it.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:12

But then where are they pouring it? Into a mold?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:14

No, no, you just you're just making a scaffold. So imagine you're 3D printing anything.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:18

But what do they need to print with something so anything you like? But what do you know? Yeah, but why does it need to be that that small? Sure. Buttholes.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:26

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:30

Prosthetic butthole.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:31

Sphincter printing will be a big deal in the in the in the future.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:35

It will, we know. Yeah. We talked about prosthetic buttholes. It's very important. Sphincter print printing our us.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:41

Sphinctification.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:42

Sphincter prints are us.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:43

You know what you you guys are going to get um contacted by like uh the sex robot industry. Again.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:54

And repeatedly.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:55

I must admit I didn't put hashtag prosthetic butthole on the last one.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:00

Well, I went to see the um Vivian Westwood and Cobacoba ex exhibit, and there was one outfit that was essentially a giant butthole. And it just had the model's face through the middle.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:12

Of the butthole. It looked like a butthole. Did you take a photograph of that never?

SPEAKER_04 1:01:17

No, I think.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:18

Tramanagery. Or the hang on, the face was coming through the butthole. Like she was pushing through being born out of the butt.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:29

No, she was a butt baby.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:30

A butt baby.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:31

She's a butt baby. I love it. Good dish-faluting, probiscous DNA.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:40

Doesn't take you long. We we we pivot quite quickly.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:44

And on that, I think that's a good way to end. Our butt baby.

unknown 1:01:48

That's cool.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:49

Butt baby.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:50

All right well, thank you for having me. Bye.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:52

Uh thanks, Ham.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:53

Thanks, M. Take.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:55

Catch you on the flip side. Bye. Bye.