Ep 30 Pink Hippo Sunscreen

Emma investigates the mystery of the prosthetic toe and the bizarre history of pointy-toed shoes, Billie asks you to attempt to identify animal poo from a picture book (a skill nobody asked for) and writes a musical masterpiece to introduce Günter’s Science Crap, and Günter dives deep into the microbiome impact of coffee — because apparently even your morning caffeine needs a scientific investigation.

⚠️ Content warning: contains questionable detective work, poo-based education, questionable footwear choices, and coffee being taken far too seriously. Listener discretion advised.

Transcript

SPEAKER_06 0:00

This podcast contains explicit language, inappropriate jokes, and deeply questionable choices. Just the way we like it.

SPEAKER_05 0:16

Oh my god, ever since I've seen these cheese, I've just been a bit like, hey guys. Yes, cheese.

SPEAKER_01 0:22

Cheese good. Cheese is good. We like cheese. Alright. Righty, right. Alright, alright, alright. Welcome to Dream Cheeses, lovely people. My name is Gunter. I give you the Thomas Aquinas of structural kindness. Emma.

SPEAKER_03 0:39

Thomas Aquinas.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

An ongoing proof that love is truth to the Billy. How are you both?

SPEAKER_06 0:48

Well, I'm good. Good, good today. Had a bit of sleep. And yeah, feeling good.

SPEAKER_05 0:53

How are you, Emmy? Thomas Aquinas. I love that. That is awesome. Thank you. Yes. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_06 0:59

And um Gwinter has got the headphones on. He's he's we're gonna be constantly getting that. Don't knock the thing again. Oh, Billy, you've knocked the thing again. Oh, don't knock the table. Get your elbows off the table because he's got the headphones on so you can hear every little bump and knock and thing.

SPEAKER_05 1:15

Bump and knock. Oh, that would be a good name for a prostitute house. Bump and knock. Bump and knock and see.

SPEAKER_01 1:23

But they have they have a doorbell ironically.

SPEAKER_05 1:27

What about that time we were in St Kilda? Um yes. Yeah, the three of us. And there was this multi-story building, and I was like, that's a red light on level five. Like, good, does that mean it's a prostitute room? And you're like, why have you asked me?

SPEAKER_06 1:44

That was when we were standing outside the palais. It was the Palisade.

SPEAKER_01 1:47

And my response was It was funny.

SPEAKER_06 1:49

What was it?

SPEAKER_01 1:50

Oh, it was something like, um, no, it's not that one, it's the one two doors down.

SPEAKER_06 1:53

Yeah, that's right. Emma is trying not to um crunch into the microphone because she is well into the cheese board. So I'm gonna get into introducing the cheese board already because um then you can hear us eating it. Um Emma has bought a delicious Jack's English club cheddar. I love a good cheddar. And we've got a red Leicester.

SPEAKER_01 2:17

We've got a red Leicester.

SPEAKER_06 2:18

We let Red Leicester, Red Leicester. And then Gunter has been to Monaco's, our Delhi extraordinary.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

Awesome call out to the awesome Delhi Monacos.

SPEAKER_06 2:31

Yeah. Yeah. We've talked about them many a time. And he they had a cheese tasting, and he tasted this cheese called, I'm gonna get it wrong, Occelli Testan di Barolo. And I'm sure I've pronounced that horribly, so I apologise. Um pasteurized cow's milk, sheep's milk, Mark Barolo wine and salt. So it's literally got wine grapes. Yeah, it's got a wine grape crust. Yeah, which is pretty good. And it's crumbly as fuck.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

Yeah, and it's strong. And it's strong.

SPEAKER_06 3:06

I can smell it from here. Gunter's probably a meter away from me, and I can smell it from here, but it looks amazing. I like it.

SPEAKER_05 3:12

Cheese is a meter away from you.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 3:15

Gunter is a meter away from you. Because you know the last time we had blue cheese, and I could smell it as I walked past the table. Past the again. I'm sensing the Gunta cheese.

SPEAKER_01 3:26

What if I tell you that I haven't actually eaten any of the blue cheese?

SPEAKER_06 3:28

I know you have. I saw you didn't. Um I taste it? I haven't had something. You should taste it. It is delicious. And it's pinkish. Oh Gunter's got me a little bit here. Better take that, thank you. Okay, I'm gonna try it. It's got I did have I got enough grapes on this? Oh yeah. I'll try the grape bit.

SPEAKER_05 3:49

I cannot stop smashing it. Like since I've walked in. It is delicious.

SPEAKER_01 3:52

It's very strong, but it's yummy.

SPEAKER_06 3:56

Very good.

SPEAKER_01 3:57

Oh, see, I didn't think you'd like that. I thought it would be a bit a bit down the blue vein kind of route.

SPEAKER_06 4:03

It is. And that one piece is enough for me. But it's nice. Like it's nice, it's beautiful. Um, I prefer the tasty cheese.

SPEAKER_05 4:13

Tasty taste, flavour flavor, flavor flavor. Flavor flavor.

SPEAKER_06 4:17

Yes. I've got any camera and I've got maffle cheese. Emma, have you toe dipped or have you jumped in the pool?

SPEAKER_05 4:26

Lately it's all been toe dips, for which I apologize. But I have been um gathering a um collective of people that we can speak with around me. So the latest is going to be Riley, who is getting, I called it the Medal of Honour, but it's not called that. It's some sort of medal that they don't even have to award every year at at the university. Um and it recognises it, you know, outstanding achievement. And he is very into plants. And I don't know what type, but No, you didn't say it was getting a medal of honour.

SPEAKER_06 4:55

That's super cool.

SPEAKER_05 4:56

It's not called that though, Bill. It's called a medal of something. Okay. But it's a uni medal. It's a uni medal. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 5:01

He's better than the Dean's Honours list that Emma and I both got.

SPEAKER_05 5:05

I didn't get, I'm just trying I'm trying to do that. Oh, yes. Yes, remember? That's my goal. Yep. With my masters. Um second place is first loser. I will not stop. Um, so anyway, I um well he's ultimate winner special medal. But his work is really purposeful because it is looking at um ways that seeds can be genetically modified without being genetically modified. Because once they're GM, you you know there's issues arising from that. So it's basically looking at what's working in the Australian landscape with seeds, and then his research in his PhD, he'll explain this much better, is looking at um typically what the the technology and also the standard practice for analysing plants has been to sort of put it all into a musha thing and then put it under a microscope. But he is devising technology to look at each part of the plant in isolation because certain parts of plants can have different um reactions. So you can have one leaf that dies or whatever. So it's actually going to provide way more insightful, um insightful insight um into what what happens. Plus, he's doing this whole other seed thing.

SPEAKER_01 6:19

So he's he also what do you mean by genetically modified without being modified?

SPEAKER_06 6:23

It doesn't mean you have to do it.

SPEAKER_01 6:25

That's just crossbreeding, isn't it?

SPEAKER_06 6:26

When it's being done naturally and not it's just crossbreeding.

SPEAKER_05 6:29

No, it's more good. And this is why I said to him you will have these questions. Okay. My questions will be around poo and its usage in transferring seeds.

SPEAKER_06 6:39

Uh our question is about when when are we getting him on? Because we can work out how to get him onto the mic without having to him having to be here. That's when we'll get him on.

SPEAKER_05 6:48

Well, because he's in Canberra, so because that's where he's doing his PhD in his lab business. So um it's up to Gunter and Billy when they can make the technology work. But to add to the poo thing, because that's why I'm fascinated. There is um a cassowary we went to Cairns recently, and the cassowary can um is there's a particular seed that will only propagate um or germinate based on uh well it's predicated through the needs to go through the cassary digestive system.

SPEAKER_01 7:21

Okay, wow.

SPEAKER_06 7:21

I know then some enzyme or something that it comes out with.

SPEAKER_01 7:25

Is it that a bit like the weasel coffee?

SPEAKER_06 7:27

Weasel coffee poo. Yes.

SPEAKER_05 7:28

Now, yes, some someone up Weasel Pooh coffee in Vietnam. Yes, someone said that in um in the thing. But then the other weird thing, and I'm just using just thing as a catch-all phrase. The other weird thing was that I was talking to Riley about something I did a deep dive on and spoke about on this podcast. Remember when I told you about the seed bank? Yes. And the the siege of Leningrad or whatever it was. Siege of Leningrad and they starved rather than and he had read the actual book about it. And further to that, his dad, who is also a plant professor, reached out to the person that wrote that book. So, like, see, it's all coming up, cheeser. Because this is you could because he listened to the podcast.

SPEAKER_06 8:13

He will. You need to send him a link to that particular episode. Yes, yeah, he couldn't. Then say, I'd like one of those books signed by that person, please. Or are they all dead now? No, but no, no.

SPEAKER_05 8:24

Well, no, Lennon Grad, the the yeah, that dude obviously died. But no, the person wrote the book.

SPEAKER_03 8:28

Lennon, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 8:29

Yeah, no, Lennon Grad. Famously, yeah. Both um double N-O-N and N-I-N. Yeah. Both of the Lennons. Um, but I anyway, I want to get him on. That's my contribution because recently I have only done toe dips. So my um I've got one notation which I made in my phone um around the pullet cans because um my this is my cousin's uh stepdaughter's partner that we're going to going to bring on.

SPEAKER_06 8:59

Stepdaughter's partner. Oh, but you're talking about the guy who's his name.

SPEAKER_05 9:02

Riley. Yep. But my cousin's part husband. So he's a this isn't Sally's step.

SPEAKER_06 9:09

Yeah, Sally's husband. Oh, okay. Tim.

SPEAKER_01 9:11

He he won the 100 meter plant.

SPEAKER_06 9:14

Hang on. So Sally's husband's son, so her stepson.

SPEAKER_05 9:18

No, no, so so Sally's husband has a daughter and a son.

SPEAKER_06 9:22

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 9:22

But this is the daughter's partner. Dude's partner. Yep. Cool. Then his dad is also a plant man. But then Sally's husband, Tim, is also a connoisseur of weird and wonderful tales. One of which he shared. Because we're talking about, for some reason at the breakfast table, we're talking about um pointy-toed shoes. Perhaps it might have been actually because my cousin was the original person that paid out on the tubes, which Billy and I love our tubes. What's a tube?

SPEAKER_06 9:51

The tubes, the shoes. You know, Emma's green shoes that have the strap across the front and the back, and I've got a red pair, and I bought the extra fancy bits for the top.

SPEAKER_05 10:00

Okay. So Billy bought the plastic shoes.

SPEAKER_06 10:03

No, they're not plastic.

SPEAKER_05 10:04

They're they're sustainable. They're the same. Yeah, they're recycled. Yeah, recycled plastic. But they're but they're recycled.

SPEAKER_06 10:12

They are not what you think they are. They're not the weird ass, they're not crocs.

SPEAKER_05 10:16

No, they're super comfy, and we Billy and I love them. Yep, and I'm born them in cans, flat out. So perhaps that's why I think this I think Sally now you've found a pointy-nosed version of them. No, Sally was just like, your tubes are lame, and I'm like, you're lame. Then Tim said, let me tell you about pointy-toed shoes. Terrible for women. No. No. You know where they originated from. Ooh. Are you ready? I am.

SPEAKER_01 10:41

Attacking people with pointy feet.

SPEAKER_05 10:44

Could be, could be. Originated from times when people lost toes due to syphilis.

SPEAKER_06 10:52

Oh, and so they didn't need to have the whole top of the shoe that didn't. No, incorrect.

SPEAKER_05 10:58

It elongated the shoe to improve balance.

SPEAKER_06 11:03

Oh my god, it gave it an extra bit at the t at the front.

SPEAKER_01 11:06

Okay, so what does the curly thing in the end? It it gives the turkish little spinny turkey curly thing.

SPEAKER_05 11:13

It gives the illusion of toe more toe as well. It's like I do not have syphilis. Look at this curly thing on the end of my shoe. How could someone that had lost toes?

SPEAKER_06 11:24

Clearly, then people went, ooh, queen toe shoes, syphilis. Yes.

SPEAKER_05 11:28

And think about it, it was aristocrats. Although syphilis isn't specified to um social, economical, but and that actually reminded me, forget all my Tweebs talk because this is the deep dive you guys have been waiting for. Unfortunately, we don't have time today, see ya. Yeah, it it was ongoing throughout my time in Cairns. So what happened was we went to see a croc show at um Saw Your Little Not the Shoes, to be clear. It it will get back to the shoes, don't you worry. Oh Native Crocodile. Um God, what was the name of the croc place? It was amazing. Anyway, we went out there and they did this croc show and it was phenomenal. They got the croc to do the death roll, they got the croc to do all this sort of stuff. Yep. And he gave obviously information about the croc throughout it. However, the guy that stepped into the croc pen, first thing he does is take off his socks and shoes.

SPEAKER_06 12:25

So he can go in the water with it.

SPEAKER_05 12:27

And when he did that, I observed what I still believe is one prosthetic toe. Yeah, you showed me that picture.

SPEAKER_01 12:37

I saw that picture too. Yeah. And I reckon that was just slightly white. But you could interpret it a few different ways.

SPEAKER_05 12:43

I was like, it is a prosthetic toe. I am so sure. I'm taking photos, the whole thing. I'm not listening to anything, I'm not watching the death roll. I'm zooming in on the toe. How can I see it better? At the end, when he said his other questions, I was like, is it no? I wanted to say it, do you have a prosthetic toe? Then I was like so obsessed with it. It was all I could think of. People were like, why would you get a prosthetic toe? And I'm like, because it improves balance. How would it stay on? Potentially a little suction cup. People then were like, um Do you have the lick it?

SPEAKER_01 13:14

I got one of those in the car.

SPEAKER_05 13:16

You got one of those in the car. You gave it to me, remember? Yes, yes. Lick it and stick it on the stump. Not it wasn't a prosthetic toe, it was something else. But so I'm like so obsessed with this fact. Then the man that did not work at the croc park, but works to ferry people from hotels to croc parks. I said, Do you know unless you pay him at the start? What? You pay him at the start to do a croc show.

SPEAKER_01 13:43

No, to ferry you. Sorry, it's a classic ferryman thing. You never pay them till you get to the other guide.

SPEAKER_06 13:49

Oh you're interrupting the story for a silly joke that we didn't get. Keep going in.

SPEAKER_05 13:55

So then what happened was he um There's a whole bunch of people in the car parking that's left.

SPEAKER_01 13:59

Sorry, hang on.

SPEAKER_05 14:01

I said to him, Um, do you know anything about this particular man in the croc thing? And he goes, I know of him. And I said, Does he have a prosthetic tone? He's like, What? And I said, The whole show, I'm so convinced he has a prosthetic tone. He said, Um, I think what would be more likely is that they take off their socks and shoes and he's probably stubbed his toe, resulting in a cut which is prone to infection in Kansas weather, particularly. So he is wearing an all covering bandage. And I was like, damn it! I think it makes way more sense than where my brain is. I think he's covering for him.

SPEAKER_06 14:37

I think he's covering for the man who's lost his toe.

SPEAKER_05 14:40

But that is the practical logical thing that most people go to. But I'd gone straight to prosthetic toe and created this whole backstory. He then said, if a croc had bitten him, do you think it would just be a toe?

SPEAKER_01 14:53

Yeah, that was the logic that was coming through my head, I gotta say.

SPEAKER_05 14:55

But then I thought, what about a baby croc just bit the toe?

SPEAKER_01 14:59

It's a tiny little crocodile.

SPEAKER_06 15:01

Yeah, really, really small crocodile. There are really, really small crocodiles. They're born in eggs, you know. Yeah. We saw babies up there. And they're such tiny babies that maybe it could have been a baby. It could have been. But would he have been wandering around and bare feet and baby crocs?

SPEAKER_05 15:14

Maybe he thought it was safe because they're babies. And he got too cocky, which is a classic trope. The crocodile pen bloke that got too cocky. Yeah, but too crocky. So, anyway, that was that was my deep dive. That was the conversation at the breakfast table that bought on this tidbit from Tim. However, my second issue is is it ever okay to um a pathologize and b shame a crocodile in a plaque that they cannot read?

SPEAKER_06 15:46

How are they shaming the crocodile?

SPEAKER_05 15:49

How are they shaming the crocodile? The next phase of it, there's this big lagoon that's Croc City. The next phase are these big pens where there's single crocs that are massive, who I actually genuinely thought were fake until you see their nose holes.

SPEAKER_06 16:02

Yeah, because they don't move very much at all. Like literally. Unless they're actually moving around, like a lot. You they sit so still with their gumbo.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

Which is why crocodiles can only run very short distances. So if you can run far enough, they'll never come after you.

SPEAKER_05 16:20

But they're so quick, 100k an hour. Yeah, they're gonna be a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 16:24

So over short distances. But they can only do short distances. So if you can So you never get stalked by a crocodile.

SPEAKER_05 16:29

No. Never stalk by a crop. Um they're in these, they're in these pens, they've all got names. This is Sultan, this is Bart. There was one called Bart from the Simpsons. This this guy is called Chopper.

SPEAKER_06 16:46

Oh, is he missing an ear? No, you've ears.

SPEAKER_05 16:52

He was missing an ear. He only had a hole. You're right, Billy. Um so then you read it and it says, My name is Chopper. I am psychotic and aggressive. I'm like, that's a bit harsh.

SPEAKER_01 17:06

Yeah, they're taking the metaphor all the way, aren't they?

SPEAKER_05 17:08

Yeah, I thought that was harsh, but then I did read that he used to be allowed to go in the lagoon.

SPEAKER_01 17:12

Quite charismatic.

SPEAKER_05 17:13

Well, no, not charismatic. Eatomatic. He ate, he ate all the other crocs and he kept fighting them. Because he wanted the food.

SPEAKER_01 17:21

I didn't know they would were Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_05 17:23

You want it to be Alpha Croc. They're cannibals. Yeah. They are cannibals. Wow. Particularly Chopper. He was off the cannibal scale. He was just like fighting and eating and fighting and eating, so then they're like, no, you're in this pen. And now also we will shame you with this label. And we'll call you Chopper.

SPEAKER_01 17:38

But your question is whether it's ethical to be able to write that about and become a chip.

SPEAKER_06 17:41

And did they call him Chopper after the fact? Because he sounds a bit like Chopper Reed.

SPEAKER_05 17:45

He started out probably being called cutie pie. Cutie pie.

SPEAKER_06 17:48

Cutie me, cutie face. No.

SPEAKER_05 17:50

Yep. Maybe he ate the the guy's toe.

SPEAKER_06 17:54

Maybe. Maybe that was a final straw. Next time you're up in cairns, you need to ask him if he has a prosthetic toe.

SPEAKER_05 18:00

Well, I did have what was really weird is that I saw two of my daughter's friends' mums. Mm. That was weird. That's weird, right?

SPEAKER_01 18:10

In the same place randomly.

SPEAKER_05 18:11

Yep. Yep. So sh one of them, Jules, hi Jules, was going to follow up for me. So I I'll hopefully be able to bring that tidbit back to you.

SPEAKER_06 18:19

You could have just easily asked, have you ever been bitten by a crocodile? Because he could have said, Yes, I lost my toe. Oh, much better than being specific and saying I was saying, Is that a prosthetic toe? Or do you just look at it?

SPEAKER_01 18:32

Your nose looks a bit funny. Were you ever bitten in the face?

SPEAKER_05 18:38

That's actually very true. But then scrolling down in my notes, I have found that yes, I did go deep dive. I forgot how deep dive I went on this. I I was looking up toe prosthetics and I found that they're sold they're sold on Etsy.

SPEAKER_06 18:50

What? Oh yes.

SPEAKER_05 18:51

Etsy do them. And they're actually quite believable. They've got little nails. And look, for one.

SPEAKER_01 18:57

That's a pretty believable toe. And do you lick it in these dictions? I hope so.

SPEAKER_06 19:02

For what for what reason, other than sticking it top someone's bags? What?

SPEAKER_05 19:08

Yeah, a few. And you're wearing your tubes? You want to have five toes. Aesthetic.

SPEAKER_06 19:14

Yeah, but how many people are missing toes?

SPEAKER_01 19:17

A few.

SPEAKER_06 19:18

Yeah, but not enough for Etsy to somewhere that's a big thing.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

Well, apparently enough for Etsy to sell them.

SPEAKER_06 19:22

Or people just got munted toes and they go, oh, maybe more hairy toes.

SPEAKER_05 19:28

Like a super hairy toe, so you cover it with a but I was thinking that's another option for us for merch.

SPEAKER_01 19:33

They're not like toe condoms. They're actual cool toe things. We coat an existing toe with them. Yeah, we talk about covering a hairy toe. That's that's just called shaving.

SPEAKER_06 19:41

Yeah, but this is Or depilatory cream or something. No, this isn't just sticking an end on.

SPEAKER_01 19:46

It's a whole toe. Yeah, but it's a whole rubber toe.

SPEAKER_06 19:49

Can you do you put it over your toe? Like is there a picture of that? No, I'm fascinated by that now. Now I've passed it on to you. It's contagion.

SPEAKER_05 19:57

It is contagion. I've I've spent all my nights doing this in cans, so now I'm I'm done. But the other interesting thing is Clydesdale horses. And okay, clean segue into usually um or or now.

SPEAKER_01 20:16

So we're going from hairy toes to Clydesdale horses.

SPEAKER_05 20:18

No, we're going from crocs to snakes, which were also up there. The young guy had a venomous and an anti-venomous. Non-venomous, rather. I was gonna say anti-venomous would be pretty good. Yeah. Kunja never do that action again.

SPEAKER_06 20:42

Yes, Gunta just had one fist coming one way and another fist coming in the other way, and it looked a little wrong. This is why we should film. Or not film as the case may be.

SPEAKER_05 21:00

Um yeah. And so it was, yeah, you're right, it's non-venomous. But they now, of course, have got synthetic anti-venom and they can make stuff in labs. But before that, or even maybe still during, I don't know, I was still looking at the toe. But they have in Australia the one of the only anti-venom labs.

SPEAKER_01 21:20

Labs, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 21:21

And because cliestele horses are big bastards, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:26

They can withstand a decent dose and then they create the antibodies and then you can extract it from the horse.

SPEAKER_05 21:32

Legend, yes. Emma's telling the tale.

SPEAKER_01 21:33

Sorry.

SPEAKER_05 21:34

No, but I like that.

SPEAKER_01 21:35

Edit mine out.

SPEAKER_05 21:36

But they're but they keep pumping them though, because it takes a while to get to antibody level. So they're like, they give it a dose and it's like Do they ever die from that?

SPEAKER_01 21:45

Probably.

SPEAKER_06 21:45

Or do they just get really sick? Clanails are beautiful horses.

SPEAKER_01 21:49

Yeah, but they're you know, they're they're horses, so they're they're pretty resilient. So strong as a horse.

SPEAKER_06 21:53

But it's because they're really fit as a horse, strong as a ox. Strong as an ox. They're really big, you're saying. So It's why they can withstand the venom. And their hearts a bit.

SPEAKER_03 22:04

Well, you know, an amount that we call us, obviously, doesn't kill them.

SPEAKER_05 22:07

Yeah, they don't kill them, they incrementally build it. But it's not just one jab antibodies done. It's c cumulative, but potentially they could go overboard and kill them, but that would be sad. But generally they just and how they used to get the anti-venom. Yeah. From horses. Yeah. In fact, still some. Still some.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

A few medicines were done that way.

SPEAKER_05 22:26

But then you'll make this leap. What is the issue moving forward with that?

SPEAKER_01 22:33

Uh there are people who have um intolerance to horses, so they've they um have an allergic reaction to the anti-venom. Yes.

SPEAKER_06 22:41

And it's anti-venomination.

SPEAKER_01 22:42

And it is sometimes called anti-venom and not anti-venom, but it's called anti-class.

SPEAKER_06 22:45

But it is anti-venom, isn't it? I and it's not.

SPEAKER_01 22:47

It can be either, I think.

SPEAKER_06 22:48

Yes. Wow. Yeah, so if you're allergic to horses and you get bitten by a snake, yeah. What about if you a red-backed spider? Is that the same thing? Do they sting horses with them and do the same thing?

SPEAKER_05 23:00

Jack Russell's.

SPEAKER_06 23:00

They trail that on Jack Russell's On Gunther's because he's the size of a horse.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

Thank you, baby.

SPEAKER_06 23:08

No, well in comparison to a Jack Russell. To a spider. Yeah. Oh. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 23:15

Yeah, if they were inventing anti-venants for Jack Russell's, then I'd be the one. Yes. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_05 23:20

Yes. Yeah. Would now goodness me, that's would you care for my final which was for more, Emma. Which was brought to me by my youngest, and it's kind of very sweet that she thought of this. Yes. Because she heard it from the creative arts night at her school where they were ad libbing. Um, and now though I do need to quickly check that it is true because I forgot to do that. Well, um when does that ever stop disappointment?

SPEAKER_01 23:48

That's reporting the truth. That's true. Don't let the truth get in the way.

SPEAKER_06 23:51

I remember when you get to the bottom of the article M and it says, Oh, by the way.

SPEAKER_01 23:56

This is all fake, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 23:59

Oh no. Sorry.

SPEAKER_01 24:02

So do you think Tilda Swinton is wearing an Emma Donaldson t-shirt right about the?

SPEAKER_05 24:05

I I wore it particularly because you love it, Gunta. I love it too. I've got a t-shirt that says Tilda Swinton. Yeah. And every time I wear it, Gunther has to have a I love it.

unknown 24:15

I love it.

SPEAKER_05 24:15

He's like, why?

SPEAKER_06 24:16

Why are you wearing that? And yeah. I would love to send her an Emma Donaldson t-shirt. I'd love to send have a picture of her wearing that and then like Emma wearing that. Watching Snowpiercer. Yeah. I love that her rolling that's a little bit.

SPEAKER_05 24:29

So Charlotte very excitedly told me that hippos produce pink milk. Oh. Pink milk. But I've since fact-checked it, and it says that technically it's not milk, but they do produce a pink sweat-like secretion, which sounds much grosser.

SPEAKER_01 24:48

And you make cheese out of it.

SPEAKER_05 24:49

Oh and now I'm thinking nut cheese because it's pink cheese. Well, because I brought this up earlier, and it's not just for being cheap.

SPEAKER_06 24:56

No, um, Gunter did bring this early up early.

SPEAKER_01 24:59

Because we make goat's cheese. We make sheep's cheese. We make cow cheese.

SPEAKER_06 25:03

But Gunter did say, why don't we make pig cheese? And it is made. You can make it, however, it's it's incredibly rare. And there are reasons for that. The first one is they only release their milk for about 15 seconds at a time. Oh, is that what the biggest is? And they produce less than a cup per session. It takes 40 hours of labor to collect enough milk for just two pounds of cheese.

SPEAKER_01 25:33

Wow. That's a lot of things.

SPEAKER_06 25:34

So that's a big um cost. And the flavor profile. Those who have tried it describe it as gamey. It's often grainier and saltier. So it's yeah, it's often called. Oh, this is gross. Okay. It's often called head cheese. Um pig rennet cheese. And it's, yeah, they they're just like it's not a good cheese. So basically they're saying it will take you a long time to get it, and it's also not very good when you do it. Not good. Um it's seldom obtained for human use. Who else would make cheese? Who else would eat the cheese? If you make pig cheese, who do you sell it to if not the human? That's also weird, yeah. Like, seriously. That's a bit strange. Um, there you go though. Chef Edward Lee prepared a ricotta cheese from pig milk and he described it as delicious.

SPEAKER_05 26:41

But did he add vanilla or sugar or something to it?

SPEAKER_06 26:45

Well, yeah, it took him like dozens of hours. Ten people worked on the floor.

SPEAKER_01 26:49

That chef's got game.

SPEAKER_06 26:51

Yeah. Oh, but it would be. That's also not worth it, then, is it? He works out at $2,300 a kilo. Holy shit. For something that tastes like Yeah, exactly. And there's something that's more expensive called puel cheese, and that's made from a Serbian donkey. Puel cheese. Puel P-U-L-L. Pew pew. But people did use in the olden days used to wash their face with pig milk. Believing it helped retain one's figure and complexion. But that then would have been so they're two hours getting 15. Yeah. Yeah, but you wouldn't need a lot to make a little bit of stuff in the bottom of the wash with. Whereas to make that and make cheese, you needed quite a bit.

SPEAKER_05 27:37

Well, and then maybe that's why they did that in Germany. That's why they give pigs masapan pigs so kindly made for me. Yes.

SPEAKER_06 27:45

There you go. Oh, but the poo I've just gotten rid of my thing that I had to share. That's right, I found that.

SPEAKER_05 27:50

Well, pig milk um aside, the hippo milk is not pink. Um, it's not sweat, but a skin secretion that is a combo of sunscreen, an antibiotic, and antimicrobial compound. See, that's the stuff you should be putting in your face. Did you say a sunscreen? Yes. So hippos never get sunscreen because uh sunburnt, because they make their own sunscreen and it's pink.

SPEAKER_06 28:11

See, why are we getting all that sunscreen there?

SPEAKER_05 28:14

Why aren't we oiling ourselves with hippo?

SPEAKER_06 28:17

Yeah. Um hippo hippo secretion. Secretion. Oh, I'm that sounds worse.

SPEAKER_01 28:22

No, you call it hippo secret.

SPEAKER_06 28:25

Hippo secret. I know.

SPEAKER_01 28:26

I've no marketing.

SPEAKER_06 28:27

Yes, well, no, hippo secret fucking sh hippo in front of us. No one's gonna bite that.

SPEAKER_01 28:32

The hippos secret.

SPEAKER_06 28:33

Just call it the hippos secret. Oh, I like that. Yes, or just the pink pink secret. Just call it secret face sweat. Secret cream. Secret cream. Oh, you are off the campaign. You are off. I'm not okay. I'm not good at the naming. Okay. Fair enough. You're making it more unappealing with every iteration. Fair enough. Hey Gunter, what's in your book? Secret cream. What's in the book? Secret cream.

SPEAKER_01 29:05

Are we gonna do that or are we gonna are we gonna talk about your great intros, Gunther?

SPEAKER_06 29:08

No, well we'll talk, we'll do that when you get to your science bit.

SPEAKER_01 29:12

Okay, so I've got some silly jokes, but here we go.

SPEAKER_06 29:15

Emma. Gunter's decided, well, I've decided.

SPEAKER_01 29:19

Gunter should not try and be funny because I'm not.

SPEAKER_06 29:23

Should not should stop doing his bits because we don't understand them. And he thinks they're really funny and he sends them to us all the time. And Emma and I just send back little smiley faces, but secretly we're texting each other going, what the fuck is he saying? Well you're not. But when you say them, we can we look at each other and go, sometimes they're really good and funny, and sometimes we just don't understand them. Sometimes they're cheap. And so I said, But you should stick to the science things because I really like the science things, then they're good. And then I said, Oh, I should make you an introduction. So Emma.

SPEAKER_01 29:54

So she's spent the afternoon chuckling away in the corner, getting AI to generate actual music.

SPEAKER_06 30:00

Actual music. Are you ready? Yes. Okay, yes, it's pretty pretty. I'll start them, but hold on one sec. Oh, I'm excited.

SPEAKER_03 30:09

This is good.

SPEAKER_06 30:10

So I'm gonna open my book because I'm gonna go. Oh sorry, I'm knocking the thing. Who's bookcamperst? Um, so I wanted to do a short uh segment intro, right? Just a short segment intro. And I wanted it to be fairly generic. So I just put in their uh podcast introduction, Gunter Science Crap, you know, thing, right? So this is what it came up with.

SPEAKER_02 30:39

Ginter Science Crap.

SPEAKER_06 30:42

Right? So did you pick for it to go do? No, no, because that's very cool. It's almost Star Wars, in there. Yeah, that's that was the first one.

SPEAKER_01 30:52

Cantina band.

SPEAKER_06 30:53

That was the first one, and I went, yeah, that's yeah, it's a little bit too generic. A little bit too generic. So this is my next one. Hi!

SPEAKER_02 31:02

Science crap!

SPEAKER_06 31:09

But I thought I I thought that was a bit sounds angry, good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:13

Science crap.

SPEAKER_06 31:14

But I I thought what it didn't do is appeal to our wider audience. Okay. And I wanted a more Eastern European one for our for our worldwide listeners. Okay. So I tried to put in a I don't know, my prompts are really bad. And this is what it came up with.

SPEAKER_05 31:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 31:38

Ginter Science Krap.

SPEAKER_05 31:41

Oh my god, it almost sounds like a bip from the Muppets. I know.

SPEAKER_06 31:44

And it even said Gint is Ginter Science Crap. That sounds Scottish. But yeah, I wasn't impressed with that. No, what? I love that one. Didn't like that one, didn't like that one. So I thought in my head I was going for more traditional, like old-fashioned TV segment kind of thing. Like a short thing. Okay, okay, so that's what it came up with then.

SPEAKER_03 32:07

Into science crap. Trust the process.

SPEAKER_05 32:11

Trust the process. And when then what did it say? That's it.

SPEAKER_06 32:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 32:16

No.

SPEAKER_06 32:17

But I mean, no, that's boring. That's boring. And I tried to think Emma won't be too impressed with that. And our listeners like Lauren wouldn't be too impressed with that. So I'm thinking 90s boy band law kind of thing. So fight back.

SPEAKER_04 32:39

The Fact Stone Fightback. Did you tell it that?

SPEAKER_06 32:43

The Fact Stone Fight Pack. So I thought that was pretty good. With Fax and Five. But then I was like, okay, nah. I need it's a bit boring, a bit too thingy. So we needed more rock. Oh. That is giving you my name. It is Bleak Wine 2. Yes. I thought we might get stood for that. Oh yes. Oh no, I was also thinking of Gunter. Gunter likes funky scarf. He's always wanting the funky stuff. So I just touched in Gunty Science Gunty. Gunter Gunty Science Crap funky and then Gunter Science Crap!

SPEAKER_02 33:33

Gunter Science Crap. Yes. Don't fight back!

SPEAKER_05 33:45

Oh, that's rage against the machine slash flash. Early run DMC. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 33:49

That's giving an early run DMC vibe. But I also thought, no, we're leaving one of the most important people out, and that's Emma. We all know Emma's favourite instrument is Bot Whistle. And a second favourite instrument is of course Saxophone. The mouth whistle or bagpipes. Yes. Yes. But then I'm like. But it should also be.

SPEAKER_01 34:22

I reckon they sounded like Illum pipes.

SPEAKER_06 34:24

I know it's I needed. Um actually needed a more kid friendly one. Because I know we don't have a lot of kids.

SPEAKER_01 34:31

We have so many kids listeners.

SPEAKER_06 34:34

Just in case. Just need to put the parents letting go. Because we segment might be really kid friendly. It might be a good kid one. So here's our kid friendly one.

SPEAKER_05 34:44

Oh, that's creepy. Oh god, there's a child screaming because it's been dragged into something. No.

SPEAKER_01 34:54

We need experiment. I'm experimenting on kids.

SPEAKER_05 34:56

I don't like that. Again's coming for an experiment. Man with the canton. That's what he used to sing to Kunty. I don't like that. I've really liked that one.

SPEAKER_06 35:08

Okay, my brain. Okay, I've got two more. Two more. This one's built on layers and I've just gone like I just strip it right back. Just need to strip back something that you can just put on the back. Acoustic and something can put in the background. Okay. Something a bit ethereal. Oh, Enya. Yes, very Enya. Let's see.

SPEAKER_07 35:35

Sarah McLeod. Where's the fashion? Where's the Ferap Flasco?

SPEAKER_05 36:00

This is so sad.

SPEAKER_04 36:01

AI is gonna make musicians. It's so good. That's the voice of Sarah Plasco.

SPEAKER_05 36:14

Like a grammar. Now this is making me sad for the state of the world, Bill, your AI.

SPEAKER_06 36:22

Alright, I know that has, but the artist with an A.

SPEAKER_01 36:25

I know.

SPEAKER_06 36:25

And you know, I I do agree. I totally agree.

SPEAKER_01 36:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 36:28

But this is the one I've gone with. This is the one I've chosen. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 36:33

We will of course have a, you know, a I want some German um influence. Woodwind. Oh, maybe.

SPEAKER_06 36:40

Oh well let's have a listen and see what Emma, if Emma gets her wish.

SPEAKER_00 36:44

Günther Hawk. Günther Science Grap.

SPEAKER_06 36:50

Play it again. One more time. I'm just gonna play that again, because that's my favourite one. Hold on. Just gonna play it again.

SPEAKER_00 36:59

Günther ha, Günteraska, Günther Science Grab.

SPEAKER_05 37:03

I love it. I love it. And I can even picture Günther in Liederhausen with the miniature microscope also in Liederhausen.

SPEAKER_06 37:16

Before we actually go ahead with that tune in to actually try and work out what the fuck AI was saying there in case it was saying something.

SPEAKER_01 37:24

Yeah, we're not sure because it we can completely Scandinavian good.

SPEAKER_06 37:28

But um I loved that one. I'll tell you play it one more time because it's fucking hilarious. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 37:34

Guntar, Gunther Science Grab.

SPEAKER_04 37:41

Guncha will grab your children.

SPEAKER_01 37:42

Some of our European listeners can can send us something to tell us what that actually says.

SPEAKER_06 37:47

Yes, that's fucking hilarious. That is amazing. I spent far, far too much time today. And then Gunther went, oh, keep the Ethereal one because you know we can get rid of that vocals and we'll just do one of our own. That was really good. I really like that. And it is sad. It is like because we used it and went, oh, that's a bit of fun. And it's good for us because we went, that's a bit of fun, and we can use it as a bit of fun. But fuck how easy it is to fall down the AI hole.

SPEAKER_05 38:15

But then also, yeah, beautiful artists with genuine voices. Yes. Because that was the other thing that Sally's Tim was saying. He worked at Tarzan, um, which is um a theatre restaurant in Canberra, and Jules worked at um Drax. Yeah. So all these incredible people that are so artistically talented, and now already they were live, you know, living and operating in in very limited spaces.

SPEAKER_06 38:45

And now AI's just gonna come and I knew there was a uh Draculus, but I had no idea there was a Tarzan theatre restaurant. I asked him to come on and deep dive with Oh my god, that's so cool. He was hesitant. Okay. We'll have to keep asking him. Before Gunther does his science crap, um don't worry. I am going to read a book that Emma bought for me. I don't know if you've read it, Emma, all the way through, but I'm gonna read it. And you and Gunther. It is called Shed Gifts. It is called Whose Pooh Are You? Are you gonna ask listeners to guess? We can ask listeners to guess. And I do love this because you know, Emma's in cans. So it's clearly got an Australian animal vibe to it, but not all.

SPEAKER_05 39:32

But Billy, could we please take a photo of my favourite poo, which has the best expression, and put it on Instagram?

SPEAKER_06 39:38

I can, once I know which one it is. Alright, you'll know. This book is all about poo. Can you guess who the poo belongs to? This poo is large, wet, and brown or dark green. Whose poo are you? I look a bit like a cow poo, but I'm not. Is that that one?

unknown 40:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 40:01

No, it's not that one. Okay. Whose poo are you? Yes. All the poos have eyes, by the way. Whose poo do you think it is, Gunther?

SPEAKER_01 40:08

Well, if it's Australian themed, and it looks a bit like a cow pool.

SPEAKER_06 40:11

Large, wet, and brown or green, and it looks like a bit like cow poo.

SPEAKER_01 40:16

Emu?

SPEAKER_06 40:18

It is an emu. Emu poo!

SPEAKER_05 40:20

I like that the emu's also looking kind of guiltily at a squaster poops.

SPEAKER_06 40:24

As we learnt when I went up to um Gary Wild the the Grampians um Horscap Zoo, the emus swallow stones to grind their food. To grind their poo. To grind their poo. Okay. This one's an easy one. Easy one. This poo is small and round. If you give it a sniff, it smells like gum leaves. It's the poo that is also on my oh it was.

SPEAKER_01 40:50

She's pointing to the cheese platter.

SPEAKER_06 40:53

Because I had it on the cheese platter.

SPEAKER_01 40:55

You had it what?

SPEAKER_06 40:56

I bought back. Oh, the phone. It's koala poo. Okay, the chocolate version. Emma also bought the cheese. So we clear koala poo. Do you know koala's chocolate though? Do you know koalas poo? Koalas poo all day, even when they're asleep. I love that. How about that? Could be awkward on a first date. This poo is long and narrow, about the size and shape of a thumb. If you break me open, you'll find beetle shells and bits of grass. Which poo?

SPEAKER_03 41:28

Beetle shells.

SPEAKER_06 41:29

Oh, but grass. Beetle shells. Wallaby. No, not a wallaby.

SPEAKER_01 41:33

Beetle shells.

SPEAKER_06 41:35

Bat. Nope.

SPEAKER_01 41:36

Long about the size of a thumb. Yeah. So quite big.

SPEAKER_06 41:39

Yeah. A prosthetic toe. A prosthetic toe. Would you like to know who it is? Fuck, it's an animal that has a cloaca, but it's not a bird.

SPEAKER_01 41:48

A wombat.

SPEAKER_06 41:49

Crocodile.

SPEAKER_01 41:49

No, they're they're cubic ones.

SPEAKER_06 41:51

Crocodiles don't eat grass. What the hell? It's a bandicoot poo. A bandicoot. A bandicooticoot. A poo, and we added the same opening. It's called a cloaca. All marsupials have one. Oh. There you go.

SPEAKER_03 42:04

At least one.

SPEAKER_06 42:05

This poo, oh, this poo is full of ants. And termites and sand. And the ends of it are crumbly and broken. It is an a kidney. Crumbly broken. Just like our mother.

SPEAKER_01 42:19

Like us emotionally at the moment.

SPEAKER_06 42:20

This poo's sloppy and stinky and full of seeds. You might find me on the roof of a car. Bat. That was also me. It's not actually it's not a bat. It's not a bat. It's an Australian bat. What would we call an Australian bat? Flying fox. Yes, a flying bat. Um flying foxes turn themselves the right way up to poo. Otherwise they'd poo on their face. I did it again.

SPEAKER_01 42:50

Not while I was sleeping.

SPEAKER_06 42:52

Okay. Uh this poo is brown, mushy bits and white smeary bits.

SPEAKER_01 42:58

Oh, that's me in the afternoon.

SPEAKER_06 43:00

Um Wow. These animals poo about two days after they eat some meat. Sometimes the poo is as wide as their body. Oh.

unknown 43:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:12

So either the body's very small or very small poo.

SPEAKER_06 43:15

They can be big. Or it's Oh no, no. It's long. Snake. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 43:22

Yeah, it's basically turning the food into poo while it sits there and it's big long and.

SPEAKER_06 43:27

And so the the poo, they poo and wee from the same thing. So the white beard is the wee and the brown bit is the wee. Are you sure? Is that technically sound? It says it in my whose poo are you book. Oh. Okay. Uh this poo is black on the outside, green, dry, and grassy on the inside. You said this before, Emma. I'm about the size of a prune. Oh no, you didn't say that before. Whoops, sorry. Oh. Kangaroo. It is a kangaroo. Oh. Kangaroo Joey's poo and we in their mum's pouch. And their mum licks it clean. Oh.

SPEAKER_05 43:57

Just when you thought being a mum couldn't be hard enough.

SPEAKER_06 44:00

Oh okay. This poo is black or dark green and shaped like a cube. Wombat square boom. They say I'm a cube to stop me rolling away. Why would you want it to stay where it is?

SPEAKER_05 44:15

Because then the scat attracts people. And also it's a real power plate. It's a hierarchical thing. Wombat, whoever does the highest poo is the most elite. So they try and they try and poo like balance. Because they try and get the number. Did you know Wombat's.

SPEAKER_01 44:29

Because they're easier to stick?

SPEAKER_06 44:31

Like Lego.

SPEAKER_01 44:32

Is it like Wombat Jenga?

SPEAKER_06 44:33

No, look, wombat. Wombat's need to poo on top of rocks and logs.

SPEAKER_05 44:37

I had no idea what they're doing. Yeah, they poo higher. So they completely told us that before. And then they it's a it's a hierarchical power play. So the higher you can get your butt up, if you're ever trying to do a poo as a wombat, get it up.

SPEAKER_06 44:52

With all this pooping going on, why aren't we stepping on steaming piles of poo everywhere we go? You can thank the dung beetles. Some dung beetles eat the poo, other dung beetles eat the ear.

SPEAKER_01 45:05

So what do dung beetles poo and what do they do with it?

SPEAKER_06 45:08

Some dung beetles like to hang around. That's a philosophical animal bottoms. They cling to the fur, and when the animal poos the dung sorry, and when the animals poop, the dung beetles leap from their perch onto the poo pellets like tiny skydivers. There you go, that's a tiger snake poo if you want to see it. Well then there's yeah, the real pictures. Billy National. I'll put that photo in the thing.

SPEAKER_05 45:37

They got Australian coins for comparison.

SPEAKER_06 45:41

Pooh's about the size of a 26 piece. Fuck, the tiger snake poo is massive. A $20 note? No, it's like really big. It is really big. Oh. And that's the end of the book. Thank you for buying that, Emma. I thought you were in the book. I saw it and then went. That's so awesome. And it is actually from the zoology department of the University of New South Wales. So those facts are true.

SPEAKER_01 46:04

I probably know something about it.

SPEAKER_06 46:05

Yes, those facts are true. Let me find my favourite poo face. Okay, find your favourite poo face. Gunther, I apologise. You have been waiting patiently to do your what's in the book. So what is in the book today?

SPEAKER_01 46:15

Well, you gotta play the intro music. Gunter ha.

SPEAKER_00 46:19

Günther science grap.

SPEAKER_01 46:21

I am my worst critic, me myself, three out of five stars, but but but my critic is excellent. Five out of five.

SPEAKER_05 46:27

Yes, I saw that one on the chat. Yes. Did I miss a part of that? I didn't get it.

SPEAKER_01 46:31

I think I read it too quickly.

SPEAKER_06 46:37

Okay, next.

SPEAKER_01 46:38

Okay, science bits, because I'm not funny.

SPEAKER_05 46:40

Um You are funny.

SPEAKER_01 46:42

Um so I've got two science bits today. Which would you like to hear about? Data centers and human brain cells or coffee?

SPEAKER_05 46:50

Coffee. Coffee, but then data brain cells. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 46:53

All right.

SPEAKER_05 46:54

Is this your image that you sent of Prophenol?

SPEAKER_01 46:59

Polysphenols. That's right. That's the new brand we're gonna be launching in Fitzroy.

SPEAKER_06 47:03

Can I just make a noise with my microphone?

SPEAKER_01 47:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 47:06

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 47:08

Yes, polysphenols was the was the the poster I put on our Dream Jesus channel. Yes. Um Polysphenols was it was it just a bit of a gag on what I'm about to talk about.

SPEAKER_06 47:21

And then I said, Don't talk to you about it. Yeah, but maybe because I only tend to hear about it on Dream Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 47:25

So there's a bunch of really interesting um recent studies, and there's been a lot of work done on coffee for years and years and years and years and years. But almost all of the information has been kind of put down to caffeine. It's been very simplistically kind of labelled as um, you know, the drug that's active in it, and therefore that's what coffee does to us, right? And definitely caffeine's got huge effects on people and all that sort of stuff. Um but a recent study was really interesting, and it was done by John Criman at the University College Cork. And I'll I'll just side note why the hell do they call them university colleges? It just feels like a tautology, but anyway.

SPEAKER_06 48:00

Which a university college and a college college, because don't they call school college?

SPEAKER_01 48:05

They have Imperial College and they have you know they have loads of college things that are you know, it's just it's for me, it's just weird. It's like they're trying to appeal to the Australian and American markets at the same time.

SPEAKER_05 48:15

Oh, so they've mis uh renabled I can't speak. Yeah, let's continue.

SPEAKER_01 48:21

We we have unis, they have colleges and they have university colleges. So anyway. Um but there were 62 participants in the study, half regular drinkers of coffee and half non-drinkers of coffee at the start. Right? They took them on a 14-day absence so that no one could drink coffee. Obviously, the people who didn't drink coffee didn't have to make any changes. And then they did a 21-day reintroduction um with the participants randomly getting decaf or caffeinated coffee.

SPEAKER_05 48:48

But not knowing.

SPEAKER_01 48:49

Not knowing. Okay. No, I imagine they would have worked it out after taking it. So sorry, you know.

SPEAKER_06 48:54

Did I miss what the actual test was for?

SPEAKER_01 48:58

Well, the the setup is is very scientific and open-ended. Okay, they just they're just wanting to make it They're trying to understand what's going on with coffee in the body, and uh and let me move on and you'll find out what what comes out of it, right? Which is very interesting.

SPEAKER_06 49:11

Is it diarrhea?

SPEAKER_01 49:14

In some cases, yes. Um they collected an as long as you guys always just bring about tapo.

SPEAKER_05 49:23

Grinch is trying really hard to be scientific.

SPEAKER_01 49:26

I'm usually trying really hard to be silly and you guys are gonna try to be straight and you guys. No, that worked, that's fine. Um so they collected and analysed blood, saliva, urine, stool samples. Um, they also measured mood, cognition, stress, and sleep.

SPEAKER_05 49:46

Self-reported? Are these all self-reported?

SPEAKER_01 49:48

Um, well, it's very hard to self-report a blood sample. That's true.

SPEAKER_05 49:52

You know, but but mood and sleep.

SPEAKER_01 49:54

Mood and stuff is pretty much always done with self-reported cognitive. You know, how do you feel about this score?

SPEAKER_06 49:59

So they would have done that stuff at the end of the thing and then they're at the start.

SPEAKER_01 50:02

Yeah, they did baselines and they did all sorts of follow-ups and that sort of thing, right? Um and there's good basis for this. I've done stuff with DAS-21s and things like that before. They're they're pretty well recognised and they're usually pretty well, you know, they're pretty effective. Um both kinds of coffee. Here outcomes, right? Both kinds of coffee, lower ratings of depression and anxiety.

SPEAKER_05 50:23

Interesting, because you would be led to believe the opposite, wouldn't you?

SPEAKER_01 50:27

Very much so. Uh decaf specifically had better memory scores and better sleep quality compared to a group that had no coffee at all.

SPEAKER_06 50:35

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 50:36

Of neither variety.

SPEAKER_06 50:37

So you're saying they also had a control group of non-coffee drinkers.

SPEAKER_01 50:46

Now keeping in mind this is not a huge state. 62 people is not huge.

SPEAKER_06 50:49

No.

SPEAKER_01 50:49

There's statistically significant after about.

SPEAKER_06 50:51

You'd say 20 something, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:52

21 isn't some magical number instead. It's not really, but it's you know, it's considered for some people to anyway, whatever. Um, but there's enough there to have the three kind of cohorts, right? Um so caffeinated, lower anxiety, oddly, and improved attention, which you would kind of imagine. Yes. Right? Um, the implications though is is really, really interesting because if you take away the caffeine from it, you're still seeing effects. Right? So the caffeine is definitely a you know an important chemical in in coffee, but it's not by any means the most important chemical necessarily in coffee, right? Yeah, and so they've sort of broken it down and and it basically shows that polyphenols or possibly other non-caffeine plant compounds are both affecting the outcomes. And the implications are that the gut microbiome, uh you know, always always the gut microbiome is the thing that's kind of at play. And so there's a lot of complex things in polyphenols that are are doing a really important job for the body. And um so uh phenolic acid flavonoids, tannic acid, and egalitannin. Egalitarian, it's it's fair to everybody. Yeah. It's a very fair. The tannins.

SPEAKER_06 52:06

The tannins are the things that we know that egalgitannin.

SPEAKER_01 52:10

I don't know. Um but there was an interesting side bit here which I noted when I was looking this up on Wikipedia. Um polyphenols are often historically used in dyes and tanning.

SPEAKER_05 52:23

Hmm. So quite strong and in coffees and tea.

SPEAKER_06 52:29

So when like when we want to stain a piece of paper and something to make it look old, we you know dip it in a teabag and do all that sort of stuff.

SPEAKER_01 52:34

Yeah, when you talk about the tannins.

SPEAKER_05 52:35

Do you get the paper in a teabag or we dip the teabag on the page?

SPEAKER_01 52:38

If you want to get the if you want to get the year yoldi map looking looking thing, you you dip it in tea, right?

SPEAKER_06 52:44

Yeah, yeah, and in tea. Or coffee. Or coffee. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:48

And that's but that's actually where tanning, the process of treating.

SPEAKER_06 52:52

The process of tanning is from tannins. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:56

Tanning with tannins. Or tannins is from tanning. I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 52:59

Why don't they just rub tea bags all over my skin instead of all the crap that they're putting in their body and it just probably don't last that long. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:05

But you know, so um so this is just my brain, right? As tattoos predate coffee drinking significantly. So tattoos are approximately five thousand to ten thousand years ago. We started tattooing.

SPEAKER_05 53:17

Yep. Well, look at Ma I can't say the word probably Maori culture. She had the Maori culture.

SPEAKER_01 53:22

Yes, yeah, yeah. Um, yeah, and so it goes w way, way back, right?

SPEAKER_06 53:26

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 53:27

Um, but coffee's only been around for approximately six hundred years.

SPEAKER_06 53:30

Really?

SPEAKER_01 53:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 53:31

Seems like one.

SPEAKER_01 53:32

Probably uh probably forming in Yemen or Ethiopia, apparently.

SPEAKER_06 53:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 53:37

Yeah. Little interesting science-y fact for you. Um so when you think about those two things together, it's probably a fair chance that the first barista ever had tats.

SPEAKER_06 53:49

But um, I love it. I I do love it. Was this just a big fucking lead up to that joke? No, it wasn't a big lead up to that joke.

SPEAKER_01 53:57

I was just that just came to me as a channel.

SPEAKER_06 54:01

Can I ask a really billy stupid question? Um, you know how coffee's from a bean, yeah?

SPEAKER_03 54:07

Yep.

SPEAKER_06 54:08

And cola's from a bean.

SPEAKER_01 54:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 54:10

Why don't we drink hot cola?

SPEAKER_01 54:13

It is a hot cola drink, isn't it?

SPEAKER_06 54:15

Is there? I don't know. Like we dr we drink tea, tea tea's leaves, I know, but we have coffee bean and we have cola bean. Why do they why is it?

SPEAKER_01 54:24

I think it's actually quite difficult to get cola out of cola beans. I don't think it's it's there's chemicals involved in making Coca-Cola and stuff like that. Yeah, like cola drinks.

SPEAKER_06 54:32

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:32

But it's it's quite a different process than just boiling them. Is it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 54:36

Okay. Is it in a different process to make coffee? Or do you literally just boil the coffee bean?

SPEAKER_01 54:40

Yeah, yeah, that's crushing and boiling.

SPEAKER_06 54:42

Do you just you have to crush them? Yeah. Do you? Yeah.

unknown 54:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 54:45

Okay. They don't release much if they're and so but wouldn't cola be the same? I might need some. No, it's because it's interesting that we have cola cold, but we drink coke.

SPEAKER_01 54:55

It's the same way we don't make colour.

SPEAKER_06 54:56

Coke cold, but we drink. But some people drink cold coffee. They do, yes, exactly. So that's what I'm saying. Do we ever drink hot, warm cola?

SPEAKER_05 55:05

There are drink uh drinks in Japan that are hot, weird, hot cola things. Are they? In the yeah, in the um I'm going to September.

SPEAKER_06 55:13

A warm cola drink. Yes. Mmm. Okay. Sorry, just a little side thing there, I'm sure. No, no, it's just one other being.

SPEAKER_01 55:21

But we don't make, you know, we don't make lentil.

SPEAKER_06 55:23

Well, that's what I'm saying. Don't we? Do they?

SPEAKER_01 55:25

I think that's just called like soup or dull.

SPEAKER_06 55:28

Yeah. But isn't that what all those things are? Isn't that what coffee is?

SPEAKER_05 55:31

Billy calling a doll?

unknown 55:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:33

Isn't coffee just soup? I don't know, is it? I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 55:40

And if it is what's the definition of soup?

SPEAKER_01 55:42

Have I broken my soup fasting?

SPEAKER_06 55:43

Yeah, because it's like you hate it. If you're just saying you're putting lentils and beans and stuff in soups, then isn't coffee just a soup? I don't know. What's the difference between a drink and a soup? I don't know. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 55:56

The biscuits. Uh the bread on the side.

SPEAKER_06 56:00

You don't drink you but you dip a biscuit in your in your tea.

SPEAKER_01 56:04

No, it's exactly the same then.

SPEAKER_06 56:06

Yeah, okay. Sorry. I'm come I'm I'm asking a lot of side questions. I feel like if anyone's got an answer for that, is soup coffee and coffee soup? Or is it um you're like just being a bit? Yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_05 56:19

Oh, here she goes. There's there's your episode name. What's that? Is coffee soup? Coffee. Is it coffee soup? I just it's weird. I think to answer your question, yes, the first barista had tats. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 56:32

There's a non-zero chance, right?

SPEAKER_05 56:33

Did they have an ironic mini micro beanie too? And a button?

SPEAKER_01 56:37

Quite quite possibly. And a man button.

SPEAKER_05 56:39

A teeny weeny beanie. He wore a teeny weeny beanie.

SPEAKER_06 56:43

A teeny weeny beanie. Oh, Paul Randy. Yes. I love. Yes. And the late great, only late because he's off the air now. Stephen Colbert. A teeny weeny beanie. Yes, he's not late. No, all he's from the late Joe. Yeah. Yeah, no, no more.

SPEAKER_01 56:59

No more. Very sad. Yeah. Um, so the gut microbiome reaction, they tested all that sort of stuff as well. Um, and it was really quick. Within weeks they saw changes in in microbiome.

SPEAKER_06 57:09

So positive changes.

SPEAKER_01 57:10

Changes. So if you went off coffee, it changed radically. And if you went back on coffee, it's a change.

SPEAKER_06 57:14

Oh, your biome changed. Okay. So um there was measurable microbiome effects. Is that why you get headaches when you drink when you come off coffee?

SPEAKER_01 57:21

No, I wouldn't possibly get it. Or is that the caffeine? Deemed to have an answer on that. I would I would probably suggest that the caffeine was the bigger factor there. But um I yeah, I don't know about that.

SPEAKER_05 57:30

But a lot of people, you know how there's the new um well not new, recent trend of um bowel cancer in younger people. A lot of people, when you read their stories, like Dawson from Dawson's Creek, are like, oh, I started drinking coffee and I attributed the changes to my bowel and movements to the coffee drinking. So it does have impacts on obviously digestion and oddly you say that.

SPEAKER_01 57:55

But I would think the positive effects far outweigh the the negative effects almost universally in the stuff that's coming back now these days. And there's lots of studies doing lots of stuff that's not.

SPEAKER_06 58:06

But there are the negative things of going, okay, it depends how you drink it, because you drink it with three sugars and uh lots of milk and you have four of them a day. You know, is that too much milk and too much sugar?

SPEAKER_01 58:14

Well, there's an obesity problem if you're going to be doing stuff like that and whatnot. But no, overall, and this is you know backed up by lots of other stuff, lower mortality from all causes from drinking coffee. Right? Seriously. Yep. Lower tube tight diabetes, protects the liver, it improves metabolic markers, it's um got neuropositive uh neuroprotective effects, so dementia and stuff like this, it can stave off. Um reduced inflammatory markers, moon cognitive benefits, and a whole bunch more. Yeah. So it's quite remarkable how it changes things. But it's not just that it's coffee, right? Because there's a whole bunch of things that we have polyphenols in the case.

SPEAKER_06 58:51

So this isn't talking about an S Cafe.

SPEAKER_01 58:53

No, not so much with the brand particularly. Yeah. Um But you know, it's it's true in coffee, it's true in tea, it's in berries, in olive oil, in cocoa, um, in herbs and in legumes in particular.

SPEAKER_06 59:04

Right, so all I have to do is drink tea and eat chocolate.

SPEAKER_01 59:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 59:08

Excellent. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 59:10

And that's your takeaway, yeah?

SPEAKER_06 59:11

Yeah, that's my takeaway, because I don't drink coffee. Don't touch any of the other things. I don't drink coffee.

SPEAKER_01 59:14

Drink the tea and chocolate and eat the chocolate. Yeah. Um and and what's interesting about it is that all of these things, because they're complex chemical compounds and stuff like this, what they're there's a sort of sub-argument going on here that's suggesting that the produced, massively produced food, massively um what do you call it, uh um processed foods, right? Are flattening all of those complex compounds and they're turning them to be very, very simple, you know, basic carbohydrate plus basic sugar plus lots of fat plus whatever.

SPEAKER_06 59:47

What was the word you called it? You c you called that something today when you were talking to me about it. I don't know. It was a great name. It was like think of it. It's like flavour. Flavonoids. No, but you said you know when it when they flatten our flavours with something, you called it something specific. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:05

Yeah, sorry. Um but yeah, but it is it you know, it's often flattening or loss of of of of information and and complexity within our food in processed stuff.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:14

That makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:15

So, you know, we know that processed food is no good for us, but there's all sorts of reasoning now as to why that might be actually the case because the complexity in the in the gut biome um makes a huge difference to all sorts of things about how we react and and brain health and that brain. Well it's a second it's a second brain.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:31

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:32

And it's really important to feed it with the body.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:34

Is that where so what you're saying now is that the there are good things in coffee that are like a uh positives to drink it, but uh not necessarily caffeine.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:49

Yeah, the caffeine isn't necessarily the thing that's doing the work. Okay, so also doing the work.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:53

Well, I say to people, okay, we're drinking decaf coffee.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:56

Polyphenols.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:57

Is so are those polyphenols in decaf coffee?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:01

Okay. Could that be the new buzzword? Because remember it was antioxidants. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:04

Yeah, well they are like they basically are.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:07

And then it was um well, protein's the big buzzword at the moment. Yeah. Um, and that's the next one. I think you're coining it and you're you're picking it the track.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:16

Well, antioxidants is the same thing, essentially. They're in the same realm, right? Very tightly connected. They're you know, the with what I'm talking about, and I don't want to get the the the definition wrong and confuse people or anything like that, but there's very they're not quite the same thing as antioxidants, but they they're tightly connected.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:33

Similar effect. And there's fibers and what you were saying before though is you need you need fresh, proper, good ground coffee, like well, to get the good effects from it.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:48

There's all sorts of differences in the roasting level and the thing. And I actually, you know, the thing I was riffing about on that poster, the poly's phenols, right? Was yeah, you can see where the name comes from now. Um uh what I was actually riffing on with that concept was that we could actually start a business um and it would probably work, um, selling coffee specifically for the biome effects of the coffee, not necessarily for the taste of the coffee.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:11

So hang on, let me bring that image up. So you're talking about are you having trouble with memory? Purchase this, yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:17

Yeah, and depending on, and there's a really important one that you should you should know about. There's a a liver enzyme called the CYP1A2 enzyme. It's part of the chromosome uh cytochrome uh P450 family, and it helped break helps break down caffeine in the liver. And it's radically different in different people, just purely genetically.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:39

So is that why I go crazy on caffeine?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:41

Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:42

So people will react, you know, some people will be slow uptakers, some people will be um fast uptakers of caffeine, and you can have radically different effects. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:49

Um and I always thought it was just because I didn't have much of it, but I drink lots of cups of tea. But if I have a can of coke or I have anything that's got added caffeine, it makes me feel sick and I get lightheaded and I get it get makes me feel really speedy.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:01

Yeah, so you're probably a fast uptaker of caffeine. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:04

Um which is probably linked to ADHD as well. ADHD is respond differently.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:09

But I don't I mean, I don't like coffee because I just don't like the taste of coffee. I love the smell of coffee. I'm going to bought this beautiful um coffee beans today that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:17

Well, I bought some decaf coffee beans so that I can have it later in the day and more of it. That's because I can't drink a coffee after about lunchtime.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:25

Yes, same. Up all night. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:27

Um so I must be a slow reactor or something, right?

SPEAKER_05 1:03:30

Uh well then maybe that's what I am. That's so interesting. Do you drink ever drink decaf? Yeah, if I if I'm out in a cafe and I've already because I I have two coffees absolute max a day.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:43

Um, I'm looking at Gunther's picture here and he's got polysphenols in the coffee packets, morning focus, balance blend, gut-friendly decaf, slow system roast, and polyphenol max. I think you should put this up.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:58

Do you know what you need to do now, Gunther? Is just put it in a little pill. And then people like me who don't take coffee can go, well, I'm getting the benefits of coffee without. Yes, exactly. Yeah, yes. Oh my god, that's the big thing at the moment, gummies. You should make coffee fennel gummies. I'm not joking. Yes, oh my god. Oh, um coffee good bloom 2026.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:25

Feed your second brain, supports a diverse microbiome and long-term health.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:29

Guta, I'm impressed. Well, I you know, it's me, right? So I went a bit deep. Um, and I actually uh went into how you quantifying polyphenols with AI. And it's as you may be able to see, quite a long conversation. Um, but we went through what the costs are, what we could do in terms of options, you know, and we could outsource it to certain food chemistry things, but there's like four different levels of testing to try and extract the different stuff and understand what's in it.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:59

You know how you're taking some time off soon.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:02

I reckon the coffee gummies. Yeah. Um because the microbiome, that's a big one. And people are selling the gummies like fucking hotcakes.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:10

And if you have poly call them polyspennels. Polyspennels. I like it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:15

I think it's awesome. I think it's a go. And you just join with a co with a coffee company like um what's the ones we used to get your sustainable coffee things from? Um I can't think of it. You know sarky coffee's delicious. Yeah. But I would take a no, see, I wouldn't even take them because they taste like coffee. I couldn't eat the coffee things. They'd have it to taste like make black currant ones that don't taste like coffee. But all the benefits of coffee without it tasting like coffee. But though I know people love coffee, that's why you drink it because you actually like the taste of it. Yeah. I'm yeah, I would like the benefits without that.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:54

But I thought this was interesting being in Melbourne and you know, such a coffee culture. Um, there's a to total polyphenol test, which is usually the fallen sier calto assay, gives the total phenolic content as a gallic acid equivalence. Very cheap, blunt instrument, but it will give you an overall kind of thing, right? So you could do those tests quite quickly and just get a rough score, right? Um, and then there's more specialised stuff, an HPLC slash L CMS to measure chlorogenic acids, caffeine, try I don't know, this shit it's it's very intense chemical stuff there. Yeah. Um but HPLC is already a standard for compound coffee compound profiling.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:34

How do you go about making a a prototype of a gel or something like that?

unknown 1:06:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:39

That you want people to make it. You talk to food labs and stuff, they exist.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:43

Do they have to do that and universities and stuff do this sort of stuff?

SPEAKER_06 1:06:46

Because how do people go about doing that and then all of a sudden they've got a fucking business on you know, like Moody and stuff who I love?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:54

Yeah. We ran some numbers.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:56

Yeah. Oh, you and you and you and Jodie ran some numbers. You and Jody. Oh, are you back, Claude? Or are you with Claude?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:02

On off. On off. Um so antioxidant capacity can be measured by the DP DPPH, F R A P or R R A. Letters and Numbers.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:11

Letters and Numbers. You speak in bits.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:13

I know, it's it's gibberish, but it's it's this stuff exists, is the point, right? So I'm not trying to because I was talking about the um the the phenolomatic machine that I could just jump some coffee into and go ding ding ding ding here's the profile, you know. It comes out and you can just go, great, this is the put this in this category over here, and you know.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:29

Um Because you'd have to use good uh responsibly sourced coffee. Sure. Sure. Or not.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:38

Well it doesn't matter to the science of it, but sure. It matters to the ethics of it.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:41

But doesn't it also matter to the science? Don't you need good coffee to get the better noids or whatever you call them?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:48

It's point there's the point is you can you can do this stuff and you can go really deep on it, or you can go kind of surface level.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:52

Again, copyright Gunterbloom 2026. But does Jody say it's doable? Yeah. Jody says it's doable. But Joey says it does. Jody says everything's doable. Oh Gunta, you didn't do you didn't you didn't say my perfect joke that I said to you the other day. Oh no, we aren't gonna say. Um I can't I I don't know. Gunter's looking at me shaking his head, going, don't say it, Billy. Okay, we'll say it off air.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:18

Bye!