It's Not "Just a Joke" - Part 2

In this episode of Between the Bells, we sit down with two 10th-grade students, Jason and Kyle, to talk honestly about what negativity, peer pressure, and bullying look like for boys in high school.

We talk about how guys sometimes experience bullying differently from girls, why things can get more physical, and how social expectations can make it harder for boys to open up or report issues. Jason and Kyle share their own personal experiences and talk about the pressure to appear “tough” even when things actually hurt. In the end, we all agree that having a support network and staying true to yourself are keys to navigating social stress and issues in high school.

Transcript

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Hi everyone. Welcome to the Between the Bells podcast. You're here with Cami, Alexa, Lucy, Maddie, Ruby and.  

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Elise and Mrs. Graham.  

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Hey, guys. Welcome back. In our last episode, we talked about bullying and what like the girls perspective kind of is. And today we have two sophomores with us to talk about the guys perspective. And it's basically just talking about like peer pressure harassment or like what just being mean feels like in the hallways and stuff. So we have Jason and Kyle here today. Thank you for joining us.  

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Thank you for having us. Hey guys.  

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So what does negativity or harassment look for, guys?  

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Um, I'd say a lot of the time it's like more physical or like, directed towards you. Like, I feel like you guys said, like girls. It's a lot more behind the back pressure. I feel like, guys, it's a lot more head on. Like a guy will talk straight to you or he'll physically do something to you. Yeah, I agree with that. I also believe that, like, just like girls, there are stuff like guys will go behind other guys backs. But yeah, I would agree that it's definitely primarily a lot more like straight up.  

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Where just like the physical stuff happen. Do you think the most.  

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A lot of like a lot of it happens like more in the hallways or like the bathroom. Like it'll just kind of get shoved around, or if there's, like fights in the bathroom or people are just confronting each other there because that's where they feel like they're hidden so they can't get in trouble. And that's where I feel like most of it happens in like a big crowd in the hallways. It's always a good spot for that.  

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So kind of where teachers aren't around.  

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Yeah, wherever the teachers aren’t are.  

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That's where they can get over you. I know I said I was going to say anything because that white boys are always pushing and shoving each other in the hallway, pretty much.  

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I mean, it depends. Like, sometimes it's just like friends shoving each other around, but other times it is like people, like, really getting back at each other or whatever.  

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Do you think that happens? Like, why do you think guys are so physical with each Um.  

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I'd say more of. It's just like guys are a lot more silent.  

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For lack of a better word.  

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Not violent, but in their nature.  

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They're more physical in general, like they you want to be big. You want to be more powerful than the next. The guy next to you. And like, that's it's like the nature that you've been, like, put forth for, like, since, like the dawn. It's like an animal, like someone always wants to be bigger, but like, yeah, it's it's for lack of a better term. That's how I'd explain it. But there's more to it definitely, than that. In like human Emotions.  

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When you said that, it made me think of the Mean Girls.  

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Movie or.  

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That they they see them all as like animals or like.  

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Oh yeah, like monkeys swinging around.  

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And like, yeah, that's what you thought of.  

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But you're not wrong.  

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I mean, girls in a long time.  

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I'm glad you've seen ever. That's that's culture right there.  

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Um, yeah.  

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How do you respond when it happens to you? How do you cope with that.  

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Um, a lot of the times when like you do see, like harassment or negativity and it's like happening to you, I like to talk to people. I think that helps me to invest, especially because, like, now it's like really hard to like it's hard to stick up for yourself in general. And it's sometimes really hard to like everyone says, like, go talk to like the principal, like report it, but that sometimes it's just hard for people to do. But I think a good method is always just having someone there to talk, because, I mean, it's just where you will feel safest.  

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So has that. Has this happened to you? Have you been in a situation where you feel like somebody was doing something unkind or, you know, mean, and then  

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you been there?  

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Yes, I have so one of my closest friends. Uh, recently I heard that he was talking really bad about me behind my back.  

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I don't know.  

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So do do.  

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Do I just, like. I mean, in the nicest way possible, possibly do. Words hurt you. Like, how do they actually, like, affect you?  

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Like, guys, sometimes there's this, like tough watch.  

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Yeah. It's like.  

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They can. And like, I feel like a lot of times you're supposed to, like, put on this, like bigger, like pursuit where it doesn't hurt you, but like, you, like Kyle said, you have those people that you go to and talk to and you'd be vulnerable to. You're really close to.  

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Yeah. So, Kyle, who did you.  

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Those people.  

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What did you do? Like, what are you doing about that or how are you handling it?  

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Uh, I love talking to my girlfriend about stuff like that.  

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Yeah.  

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Girls are so supportive.  

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Yeah, yeah, absolutely.  

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Like, she really helps me with stuff like this. Especially this, like, current situation that I'm in. Like, she has helped me like, a ton with, like, coping with it, dealing with it. Like making me feel better and more positive about it.  

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Yeah, I would say generally that I do feel like girls tend to report things more often. Maybe that's just like in their nature, but.  

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I feel like some is seen as like weak. If a guy reports.  

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Yeah, yeah.  

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Cuz like, it's gonna be like, you're like, what are you doing? You're what's going out?  

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Yeah.  

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There's this and you'll get like a bad rep and people start to.  

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Yeah.  

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We'll stop.  

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You. How do you feel about that? Is that the way like, I don't know.  

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It's stupid, but I mean, it is what it is, right? You can't. That's just kind of what the agenda like how the world works, but you can't really do much about it, I guess.  

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I hate that that's like normalized, like that shouldn't be a thing.  

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There's so many things that are normalized in today's world that.  

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Should.  

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Not. But.  

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So how do we take. I don't know, I'm always thinking about how do we change that? How do we make it better?  

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I think it's it's more complicated than that. You can't just go ahead and change it.  

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Yeah. Flickr. I wish you could just.  

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Snap and it'd.  

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Work, but it doesn't. Yeah.  

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I think it takes like, individual people just doing what they think is the right thing. Right. What is that quote like? You have to be the change you want to see.  

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Yeah.  

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Having good friends and stuff.  

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Yeah. You have to have one person start that and have a group behind you. But a lot of times since it is the normal, you'll have people that want to fit into that group, the normalized group, and they won't speak out against it.  

00:06:01:11 - 00:06:05:08 

Yeah. So Jason question. So, you know, has this happened to you?  

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Yeah. I'd say like people all the time, they will go out of their way to hurt you or not. And like Kyle said, it's better to talk to them or to someone about something. It's the best, most civilized way of handling things. But as I said, guys get a lot more physical. They'll shove back or do something, but it really just depends on like who you're talking to and what exactly the issue is.  

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I feel like, um, a lot like with harassment and stuff, like, I feel like sometimes it doesn't bother guys. It really depends on who's doing it. If someone random does it, I feel like it doesn't really have that much of an impact. Then if it's someone that you know or care about, like you think they're your friend, but then they're fake, like that stuff has a lot more of an impact.  

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That hurts a lot more than.  

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Like a random.  

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Shoving. Yeah, a random shoving.  

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It's like.  

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Yeah, like, what's your problem?  

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Yeah.  

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Don't either do.  

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Yeah, absolutely. Like if I have a random guy, I don't really know. And I'm like, they do something to me. I'm like, I don't really care. And then eventually, like, I had one friend. Like, I didn't like this guy for like, forever. And I thought he was like really annoying. And then I met him, like, not even two weeks ago. Me and him were like, good friends now. Like, out of nowhere. Like, he really just gotta get to know the person and talk to them before, like judging them or like maybe you'll just see, like, a base of their character through something. I mean, once you get to know everyone, you talk to them. You can see like a much better.  

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How did that happen? How did you go from feeling like you didn't like him to talking to him, being friends, would you?  

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He would always be in the hallway. Like Kyle said, he just shoved me randomly or say something to me and it just really annoyed me like a lot because he did it consistently. And then like, one day I just met him at the gym and I was I was hitting a PR and he really hyped me up and I don't know. Me and him just been good friends since then. Yeah.  

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Okay.  

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You bonded over something.  

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Yeah, yeah. And I've been seeing him a bit more recently, and I feel like we've become like.  

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Question. Did you ever bring up the like, hey, man, you used to, like, bump me in the hallway?  

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No. Not really. I don't know.  

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I don't really care about it. I mean, it depends on, like, how. I think that was just kind of like his nature. I don't know. He's a very like. What's up, man? Like getting up in someone's face. I think he meant it in a much more heartfelt way. But I took it very different.  

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It came across differently. 

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It because, like me and him, we didn't really know each other very well.  

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Okay. I have a question for you guys. Like we said, for the girls perspective, like, normally like they're not just like being mean to you for no reason. Like, sometimes, like there's something going on with themselves. Do you feel like it's the same for guys or they're just doing it for fun?  

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Mhm.  

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I think it could be both.  

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Yeah, absolutely. I feel like more of the time it's just for no reason because a guy just likes to mess around with another dude or whoever. They just like to annoy people. I mean.  

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Thinks he makes them or they think that it makes them look cool.  

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Yeah. Like, I don't know, I like I'll do it too. I'll be honest. I go around, I'll just, like, annoy my friends or. Yeah, but for no reason. Just because it's funny to see them, like, get angry.  

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And also random people.  

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Yeah, but like random people, I mean, it depends. Yeah.  

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Yes I know.  

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After this, I'm done, I promise. Um, but in your lives, do you like. Not generally speaking, but really just about you and your lives. Do you feel like you you guys have to, like, come across as being big and tough, or is that not the way that you like? How do you put yourself out to other people? Like, do you feel like you have to be this big, strong, tough guy?  

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Um, I'd say like to a greater, like public. Like. Absolutely. I like to like closer friends. You can obviously break down that and you can show your true self, but like to, like a bigger group of people. You act bigger, you act stronger. You gotta be like, hey, I'm not gonna get shoved around by everyone. You know what I mean?  

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Because there is like, girls that go around, like crying to, like teachers. Not like about stupid stuff. Like just being emotional. Emotional and more out there. Do you guys feel like you can do that with other people?  

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Um. Not really. I feel like sometimes we need to, like, you can't really just go around talking to, like, whatever. She's like. Oh, like, there's one of the counselors. I'm really close to them, and I'll go and talk to them sometimes. And that's like really close. But like with just like a random teacher. I just can't do that. Yeah. You know what I mean? It has to be some really close to I can really show myself.  

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Yeah. This is like a little bit off topic from what we were just saying, but like, how can you tell if someone's like, one of the guys are trying to, like, kiss up to you or trying to fit in? Like, how do you respond to it? Like, what do you do to.  

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Do you like how how can you tell if they're trying to like.  

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They're trying to fit in like, they're like doing things that like they're going out of their way to like, do weird things. Oh.  

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So like, do you mean like not being authentic? Not being like, but like.  

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Yeah, absolutely. Um, it can be taken two very different ways, I'd say. Like, there's a guy I know right now that's really trying to, like fit in. And he's like not being like. He's like trying to fit into one group and he's like going away from another one.  

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He's like, switch up his personality.  

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Yeah. And he completely switches up and like when you're on the other end of it that it hurts.  

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The girls are the same.  

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Yeah.  

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It's really annoying. And I feel like the different person, like everyone just started to like, not like that person. And then like, when it's the other way, when they're trying to, like, bring in your friend group. More like assimilate with you. It's more, it can be taken two ways. Like it's either like, why are you doing this? Like, this isn't how you act like, stop it. And it gets like just annoying and they'll end up just getting outed because they're just being like, an annoying person because of that. Or like they'll if the person has known them, they'll like, just treat that as themself.  

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And then what? The issues start to arise later when they have assimilated it, and then they finally show like their true self. And then that's when the issues start down.  

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Do they do that to like get into like a popular group or just to do it to do it.  

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Just any like, I mean some people are like, yeah, it's like a more popular group, but other times it just kind of happens to like, so you can make friends.  

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Well, I think the reality is, is we have to like, you see these posters in classrooms, like, I was in the health classes yesterday and there was a poster and it said something about like, be you. Right. And ultimately, I don't know if everybody always realizes it, but when we are ourselves, like when we are true to ourselves, people recognize that, right? Like there's an authenticity there that I think people pick up on. Like you're all saying, like, you know, when somebody is not really acting like themselves or pretending to be something they're not.  

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Um, but I think that sometimes we have to learn that in time.  

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Absolutely.  

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Little bit.  

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I feel like if you have to change who you are to fit in with the group, then you shouldn't be changing.  

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Right.  

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Like, those aren't your people if you have to.  

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Change.  

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For them. Mhm.  

00:12:50:22 - 00:13:02:04 

Would you say that like if you were to witness your friend doing this and witnessing them trying to change to be someone that they're not. Would you ask them about it, or would you kind of just let it go?  

00:13:02:10 - 00:13:34:24 

Um, yeah, absolutely. Like, I had, uh, a thing recently where my friend, like, he was completely changed up his personality. Like, it was more of like, um, he was changing to, like, be better and, like, grown to a better person. And there's a difference between that and, like, just changing who you are entirely. But there was also a part of it where, like, half of it, he was like just trying to be better and being more mature. And other half was like, why are you doing this? You don't need to be doing this. So like, since he's like one of my best friends, I'm like, you gotta like, focus on this and you gotta drop this part of it.  

00:13:34:26 - 00:13:45:04 

Like, you can't be focusing on these negative things and like. Or like just what's not you, like, stick to yourself, be you. Focus on what you love. Don't go straight away from that.  

00:13:45:06 - 00:13:49:21 

Yeah. So you feel comfortable having that kind of tough conversation with a friend?  

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Yeah, absolutely. Like, I, I really like I'm. I'd say I'm decent with words. I really like to talk to people and like, get down to like, know someone on like, a closer level, and I feel like part of that. Like what you said earlier. Like, you gotta know what each person is like. Like, in Hope Sqaud, we kind of learned. Like, everyone has, like, their their base state. You got to know what. Like what they're like. And when they deviate from that. What's like the issue. And I, I really like to. Like talk to people and understand like what their. Base like level is.  

00:14:20:18 - 00:14:23:00 

So I can like understand them on a better level.  

00:14:23:02 - 00:14:44:06 

Yeah. Like they definitely did talk to us about this at Hope squad. Like, you know, if someone's upset, you don't know if they're like actually upset or like, you know, they're just having a bad day or like, this is actually a sign. Like, I feel like that could go the same way for like, being mean. Like maybe this person's actually just a mean person, or maybe, you know, they're having a tough time and you need to check out. Like, you need to look out for them and make sure that they're doing okay.  

00:14:45:00 - 00:14:57:19 

I want to ask you a question I had earlier. Do you mentally do guys struggle with bullying or someone being rude to them? Like. Does it take a toll on you mentally and how do you cope with that?  

00:14:57:21 - 00:15:14:17 

Uh, I really feel like it just depends on like who in the situation. Again, if someone completely random said something about me, I. I don't think I care much, but if it was someone that like, I knew I cared about and I found out they were saying stuff, I think it would, it'd hurt a lot worse.  

00:15:14:23 - 00:15:38:23 

A lot of the time I feel like it's like when I find something out, when it's like someone close. I'm like, what did what did I do wrong? And a lot of times you just can't get that information out of that person. They give you like, really vague info, like because you wanna when you do something wrong and someone like, moves away from you, whether it's your fault or not. And sometimes you just don't even know that. And you want to, like, learn to fix that. But you can't do it if they won't even, like, tell you.  

00:15:39:18 - 00:15:40:18 

Sometimes it's really not.  

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Even your.  

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Fault.  

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Some. And a lot of the times, a lot of the times it's not a reflection of you.  

00:15:45:28 - 00:15:46:21 

Yeah, I.  

00:15:46:24 - 00:15:57:24 

Think most times I've seen bullying, even with just girls. It's the girl is mad at something and she takes it out on her friend. And it might not be the same for gu-. Woah, for guys, but.  

00:15:58:13 - 00:16:35:17 

Well, there's some human element to that too, right? We are. Even though we have different experiences, we are all people. But another question that I had is what do you do? Like what do you do when you see things happen? Like maybe they're not happening directly to you, but you're seeing something happen, whether it be with people you know or don't know, um, that you feel like is unkind. Call it bullying or like somebody picking on somebody else. Is that something you feel like guys are comfortable intervening in, or do you feel like people kind of mind their own business and keep walking? I'm curious how you respond when you see something.  

00:16:35:21 - 00:17:04:10 

I feel like it's very situational as well. I do think, and I like larger setting and like a huge like public area that people tend to like, not intervene as much. Then let's say it was like they're walking, I don't know, outside and they see people and someone's getting picked on, like then they'd feel comfortable sticking up. But for some reason and I feel like, do you guys feel the same way about that? Like if it's in a larger setting.  

00:17:04:17 - 00:17:05:12 

Large groups, it's.  

00:17:05:14 - 00:17:05:29 

Hard, a.  

00:17:06:01 - 00:17:09:27 

Lot harder to stick up and like get involved right in front of so many people.  

00:17:09:29 - 00:17:28:09 

We always have that feeling, you know, you want to fit in and you want people to like you. And it's like if you have an opinion that's different than what everyone else is doing. And maybe that is like everyone's picking on this person and you see that, like, that's hard. That's really hard to go and stick up for what's right. It's hard.  

00:17:28:11 - 00:17:45:10 

I feel like when you go into that public setting and you see like two people like fighting, like people don't want to help in that unless it's like their friend, they're gonna go for their friends. But like, if it's a random person and you don't know them, or maybe you've just heard of them, you don't want to go out there because you don't know the two sides of that.  

00:17:45:18 - 00:17:47:19 

That's very true. I completely agree with that to.  

00:17:47:21 - 00:18:06:10 

Pick the right side, and maybe the one kid who's picking on the other guy, but the other guy is just bigger, so it looks like he's challenging on him. So you help the smaller guy and you were in the wrong. He had the complete wrong side and that's like that fear. Like you don't know what side you're going into. You don't know what fight you're going into. You don't know. You have no.  

00:18:06:12 - 00:18:06:27 

Idea.  

00:18:07:03 - 00:18:17:06 

If if there is not a right or wrong, if you were to like, go in, is there any way that like if you went into like try to fix it, like you could start getting like like in the.  

00:18:17:08 - 00:18:17:23 

Fight.  

00:18:17:25 - 00:18:19:05 

You could also get dragged into the drama.  

00:18:19:07 - 00:18:19:22 

You get dragged.  

00:18:19:24 - 00:18:25:08 

In. They'll start stuff with you and then you have to deal with everything just because you tried to stick up for someone.  

00:18:25:10 - 00:18:39:06 

Is there a way to manage it after the fact? Like, is that if it's like something that you see happening and then the situation's over? Is that something that you just then, like go about your day and forget about it? I'm sure it's a little bit situational, too.  

00:18:39:10 - 00:18:56:20 

I mean, it depends like whether it directly affects you. Like one of my friends. Like the other day. Like he did something and it kind of got around and like, you try to take that damage control and bring it back and set the story straight, but you're never going to be able to set the story straight. It's going to spread faster than you can fix out.  

00:18:56:22 - 00:18:57:14 

It's like it's.  

00:18:57:16 - 00:19:01:07 

Twisted through the vines and you hear all these different things. You never know.  

00:19:01:09 - 00:19:02:08 

Yeah, I know.  

00:19:02:13 - 00:19:26:01 

You never know the true story. Like it? Because it's just going through everyone, and everyone hears things a little bit differently or twists their words a little bit, and then it's like, oh, I feel like you, you're on one side of like you're on one side of like the opinion. So you believe your friends, so you're just gonna tell everyone else, your friend side of it, not taking into consideration the other side of it. It's easy to do that. You don't even realize sometimes.  

00:19:26:03 - 00:19:31:13 

What advice would you give to other guys trying to navigate this or go through this at school?  

00:19:31:15 - 00:19:59:16 

I would say make sure you know who your close friends are. Like, obviously, as Kyle said, you have your girlfriend and if you've been dating her for a while, she's always a great person to talk to. I talked to my girlfriend a lot too, like she's so sweet. Shout out. But but like through like guy. Because not not every guy is gonna have a girlfriend through. You gotta have like, your your close guy friends like a close knit circle of like 2 or 3 people. Like, you only meet so many of those people in your life.  

00:19:59:19 - 00:20:00:21 

And you need someone to talk.  

00:20:00:23 - 00:20:05:12 

To. You gotta keep them close. Know who you can be real with because you you can't do that with everyone.  

00:20:05:14 - 00:20:05:29 

Yeah.  

00:20:06:01 - 00:20:24:07 

So it sounds like there's a little bit of a persona that guys have to uphold of right? Being this tough guy. But on the back end you find a person and it sounds like maybe it's a friend, maybe it's a girlfriend. You know, maybe it's an older brother or somebody that you talk to. Right. But just having a person sounds.  

00:20:24:09 - 00:20:24:24 

Like.  

00:20:24:26 - 00:20:25:24 

Someone in the background to help.  

00:20:25:26 - 00:20:26:11 

You out.  

00:20:26:13 - 00:20:30:16 

Shout out to the girlfriend, though. We all need somebody to lean on.  

00:20:33:02 - 00:20:33:18 

All right.  

00:20:33:20 - 00:20:34:10 

Well, okay.  

00:20:34:12 - 00:20:35:09 

Thank you guys so much.  

00:20:35:11 - 00:20:36:24 

Yeah. Thank you for coming.  

00:20:37:07 - 00:20:38:02 

Thank you for having us.  

00:20:38:04 - 00:20:38:19 

Yeah. Thank you.  

00:20:38:21 - 00:20:39:06 

So much.  

00:20:39:08 - 00:20:39:23 

We love.  

00:20:39:25 - 00:20:40:10 

To hear.  

00:20:40:12 - 00:20:40:27 

You come back.  

00:20:40:29 - 00:20:41:14 

Anytime.  

00:20:41:24 - 00:20:48:07 

We love to hear different perspectives. It's very exciting. So. All right, I think that's all we have for this episode.  

00:20:48:10 - 00:20:48:25 

Okay.  

00:20:48:27 - 00:20:50:03 

Okay, guys. Bye!