Cybersecurity 101 for Doctors - Stop Running the Slowest!

Cybersecurity 101 for Doctors - Stop Running the Slowest!

Our guest today, Rosanna Filingeri, breaks down the cybersecurity mistakes doctors (and everyone) are making right now—and how to fix them before it's too late. If you're running a business or private practice, this is non-negotiable.

Critical Takeaways:
- Why your password is dumb (and putting your entire practice at risk)
- Social engineering: How hackers use your dog's name against you
- Don't run the fastest—just don't run the slowest
- Public Wi-Fi + medical records = disaster waiting to happen
- AI deepfakes: Your voice and image can be stolen and used against you
- What private practice doctors MUST do that big healthcare systems handle
- Free resources: NIST and CIS cybersecurity frameworks anyone can use

The information you post online stays forever—choose wisely

"Hackers are running a business. Make it harder for them than the next guy."
Protect yourself. Protect your patients. Protect your reputation. The stakes are too high to ignore this.

About This Podcast:
We Got Your Number is your go-to health and wellness podcast for real conversations on nutrition, GLP-1 treatments, plastic surgery, and medical innovations. Each week we bring you expert insights, the latest research, and actionable advice you can trust.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hi, I'm Dr. Thomas Romo, a plastic surgeon in New York City, and welcome to our podcast, We Got Your Number. My associate, uh Dr. Alexandria Filangeri, is here, and we're going to be doing a deep dive on an expert here who's with us today, Rosanna Filingeri, and she's going to tell us about lots of really interesting topics.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

Rosanna, let's set the stage and introduce yourself to our audience.

SPEAKER_02 0:31

Thank you guys so much for having me. It's great to be here. I have been in the tech industry for 10 years. I am a sales executive. I've been so fortunate to grow within the cybersecurity space. I've been able to travel the country doing speaking engagements, educating people on the importance of cybersecurity, more importantly, sales, how to talk about really technical and dynamic subjects with people who might not have had as much exposure to them before. Very similar to you guys as doctors who are, you know, you always have to focus on taking very complicated health subjects and making them understandable to the regular audience. So really excited to be here and chat with you.

SPEAKER_00 1:10

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

Awesome. So let's jump right in with our first topic. So I want you to talk to me about why is cybersecurity important? And I want you to talk about it in the context of, like you said, in the medical world, where what are we thinking? What do we do, Dr. Robo? We see patients, right? We care about research, we care about the academic side of things, and sometimes cybersecurity is the last thing that we're thinking about. So what do we need to know and why?

SPEAKER_02 1:38

Sure. So cybersecurity is one of those subjects where for a long time it was taboo. Nobody wanted to touch it, especially doctors. We used to joke and we used to say, you know, doctors are some of the smartest, doctors and lawyers, smartest, but the worst cybersecurity posture, because to your point, your forte is patient care and making sure that you do the right thing for your patients. They're properly treated timely and efficiently. Now, one of the things that doctors also don't know is cybersecurity and more importantly, technology is your engine to do that. So as much as you care about those patients, we have to remember that the back office is equally as important to that patient care. So cybersecurity posture is one of those things that you need to be prioritizing. And it does sound scary, right? Especially for someone who's never had exposure to something like that. Now, there is a misconception which I want to address, and that is that cybersecurity costs, you know, people think it costs a million dollars. Of course, right? The larger the organization, the more impactful and, you know, the more budget you have to dedicate to it. But there are so many things that doctors can do completely for free that can better protect themselves. And I'll give you an example. I met a health system early on in my career, this was about seven years ago, when cybersecurity was really becoming a thing. And we talked with them and we said, look, you know, strong passwords are super important. Uh turning on multi-factor authentication. So you have a password and then you get a text message code. And in conversation, they said to me, Well, we think we have to change something. And I said, What? And they said, All of our passwords are the units that we're under. So pediatrics password was pediatrics. I was like, guys, it doesn't take a genius to guess that, right? So, doctors, these are the things that we need to be thinking about. Small changes make a big difference.

SPEAKER_00 3:21

Absolutely. Um, we have uh stories that we were gonna talk about in a minute. I guess we I was at a meeting uh last week, uh, and a physician got up and talked about how he had had his uh uh practice uh charts and uh files uh on his computer hacked. Um and you may want to tell us a little bit about that, and I'll give you I know, but you have a bunch of stories like that. But it was interesting. Two physicians got up. One had cyber insurance, went through his tail, and then another guy got up and his brother had just gone through it and did not have uh cyber insurance, and it was a disaster.

SPEAKER_02 3:56

Yeah. Cyber insurance is almost like your car insurance, right? Like we all have to have car insurance, but we don't want to use it, right? Just because we insure our cars doesn't mean we drive, you know, with our eyes closed or without a seatbelt. Same thing with your business. So when you think about protecting your doctor's office, you want to do things, and I always like to equate this to a home. You want when you leave your house, you close your doors, you lock your windows, and you turn your alarm on because you're taking those measures to protect your house as best as possible. If someone really wants to get into your house, they will break the window, they will smash through the door. That's a point in time where thankfully you have an alarm that can let you know the police know that someone's made their way there. And then ultimately you have insurance as your last line of defense. Doctors need to do that with their business from a technical perspective. So when you you need to close your quote unquote doors and windows with strong passwords, with proper investments when it comes to IT measures, with cybersecurity practices. And then you want to grab that insurance policy as your last line of defense. We never want to operate with that false, you know, a misconsumption of saying, I have insurance, I can use that if I need it. Let's pretend it's not there. Let's really focus on locking down as best as possible. And there's so many organizations that can help you do that that don't cost a lot of money. So IT companies, cybersecurity companies alike.

SPEAKER_01 5:15

It makes me think of preventative medicine, right? So you go to the doctor and you go to the doctor when you're feeling well to make sure that you are well, right? So your cholesterol's good, your blood pressure's good, um, you know, you're going for your annual screening, so that God forbid something comes up that most likely has been there, you can get it early, right? So like early cancer screening and detection, it sounds almost like if somebody's inside of your network, it's better to figure that out quickly than to wait for it to become a really big problem.

SPEAKER_02 5:45

Yeah, that's a super good analogy. And it's actually something that all doctors will relate to HIPAA, right? So everybody has to understand it. HIPAA is backed by OCR. HIPAA actually has within the regulation that strictly says you need to have reasonable and appropriate cybersecurity measures to maintain from a preventative standpoint, from a detection standpoint. Ultimately, there's something called a HIPAA risk assessment. That is something from a cybersecurity perspective that all doctors should take control on for their practice. Do not leave it to your IT folks because they can operate from, you know, a strong understanding from a technical perspective. But if you are the doctor that's leading the practice, this is something that you need to be paying attention to because it will become a situation at some point in time, you can control the damage. And I think that's most important.

SPEAKER_01 6:33

What is OCR? Tell us non-technical people.

SPEAKER_02 6:35

So OCR is the Office of Civil Rights. Essentially, they are the regulatory body behind HIPAA. So when you think about all of the best practices of when it comes to protecting health care data, electronic health records, should there ever be an event that happens, a breach, you as doctors actually have an obligation to report that to OCR within a reasonable time period.

SPEAKER_01 6:59

Correct. I think we've seen that. We've gotten those notices from like hospitals that your information may have been breached.

SPEAKER_02 7:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:06

Right.

SPEAKER_02 7:06

Yeah. I mean, I dealt with the doctor's office one time, and I feel for him to this day, this individual was going to sell his small health practice to a larger health organization. He was deep into the diligence process, and one week before that acquisition was supposed to close, he had a very significant cyber event. It took that company 24 months on a minimum to recover from that. Because you think about it, you have to clean up the damage that the hackers did. In this instance, it was taking their information, replicating it. They were threatening to extort them with it. So that's one mess. These are criminals, right? We shouldn't trust them. So when when you always hear about these payments, right? Oh, give me a million dollars and I'll give you your stuff back. Who would be shocked if a criminal lied to them, right? You pay the million dollars and they don't give it back. Yeah. Right? So we don't want to end up in that position. So that happened, but then you have to recover and then you have to deal with reputational damage. And those are so many things that are avoidable, right? I always like to tell people when it comes to cybersecurity best practices, you do not have to run the fastest. You just cannot run the slowest. Hackers are running a business. If it takes them more time and effort to get into your company, they will look at the next doctor down the road who's doing nothing, who thinks it doesn't apply to them. And unfortunately, that will be their target before someone who's investing in doing the right things. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:28

Super valuable. Exactly. And I think uh just one example uh uh which is current practice, um, because within the healthcare system, you know, most people today after they get out of their residence and fellowships, they end up going and working for a healthcare system. And in New York we have lots of big ones. So you're expecting those big healthcare systems. There these guys aren't buying a chair or hiring a nurse or a secretary or or buying cyber uh insurance, they're expecting their healthcare system. The uh dinosaur in the room is the smaller practice, private practice doctors, which are essentially uh are maybe eliminated, and they're the ones that are gonna be uh uh delayed on picking up new technology. Right. So they uh and and and again they they need to do it. Right. So how do they get that message? Where they who do they listen to? Where do they they get are there uh uh studies or courses or things that people can take to do that?

SPEAKER_02 9:28

The same way that you guys read educational articles and stay current on new trending topics, new research, you can do the same exact thing with cybersecurity best practices. You don't have to nerd out, you don't have to geek out and say, teach me everything. There are small things that businesses can do to make major changes within their practices. And my best advice is no become informed. Yeah spend the time to say, hey, what are the 10 best things that I can do to protect my business? Now you don't have to be a doctor to do this, everybody should do this. Correct. And that is all available online. There's a really great website. You can type in NIST, N-I-S-T, or the Center for Information and Security, CIS. All of those actually put cybersecurity best practices out. Now, you use your discretion, right? Not every practice works for every business, not every security measure makes sense for everybody. If you don't know, have a conversation. There are people who do this all day, every day. Obviously, I'm one of them. I have given advice to so many people that has not cost them a dollar. They can make those changes to their business. And ultimately, a lot of the time it's, hey, I'm using this cloud platform. I'm using this electronic medical record thing that I'm I'm paying for each month. And I say, cool, have you read your responsibility when it comes to being a client of theirs? No. Well, it's right on their website. So spend the 10 extra minutes, formulate a list of questions, and then reach out to somebody just like I would with you guys if I had a medical question and just double check.

SPEAKER_01 10:54

I think that that's so helpful, and it really means like so to be a very smart doctor, um, you don't necessarily have to be a good business person. Um, and I think that there's a learning curve. And it's important to understand that they don't teach you business in any type of medical training for the most part, right? So it takes reaching out to that external person. I'll tell you some funny things that I've learned from Rosanna myself. Your password is dumb and your password is across the board, the same password for everything. Don't do that. Yeah. Right? Something as simple as like, don't log into your electronic medical record on an airplane that's using public Wi-Fi. Right. Right? The only reason I know that is because she told me not to do it.

SPEAKER_02 11:32

Right.

SPEAKER_01 11:32

And it sounds so silly, but I think it is so important. The next topic that I want to get into is we're in a technology-driven world, right? We have our phones in our hands 24-7. Social media has been, it's a major driver just in doctors' income, right? Getting your practice out there. Um, how do we protect ourselves? One on social media. And then the second part of that question is where is AI helpful and where is AI dangerous when it comes to um business?

SPEAKER_02 12:05

Great question. So when it comes to protecting yourself on social media, you have to remember that every single thing that you put out there on the internet, doctor or not, you're putting that out there likely forever. And if that information falls into the wrong hands, it can be used against you in many different ways. So one of the things that I had to really change my frame of reference on, to your point, like passwords. So let's just say for this conversation's purposes, my dog's name is Mario. I love my dog Mario. He's a black lab, and we get to spend our summers together and we go on vacation all the time. Okay. I'm posting about my favorite vacation spot, my dog, how old he is, and the type of dog he is. Well, maybe I wasn't feeling very creative that day where I created my password of I Love Mario. Well, now I posted on the internet that my dog's name is Mario. Then a couple weeks later, here comes my birthday. Then my parents' anniversary, and then all of these things. So we're publicly putting this information out there about us, but we don't ever stop to say, wait, these things mean the most to us. We're never going to forget them. We use them for our passwords too. So that's something that we have to think about, right? That's called social engineering. It's something that hackers do, and they quickly take the little tiny breadcrumbs about you and they put a line together and they say, These are all the things that I know about Rosanna. Nobody worry, my dog's name is not Mario. Um, so that's not something that I have.

SPEAKER_00 13:30

That's a brilliant uh statement, though. I mean, it's exactly right. You're gonna people are gonna use what they commonly have in their in their forebrain, and they're going like, yes, and and and and those names. And I think uh the present analogy to that are the Epstein files. Yeah, you think it's gonna go away, and things are popping up that it's tough to re refute uh videos of you talking to people uh or the data that you have out there.

SPEAKER_01 13:56

Right. Maybe I shouldn't have said that. Maybe I should not have written that email, maybe I should have been even very particular about what I said on my podcast. I think that you reminding us that when you put something out into the social media world, it stays there forever is very important.

SPEAKER_02 14:13

Yeah, well, there's the other side of it too. AI has become so advanced today that it is nearly impossible in certain situations to actually tell the Epstein files are a good example or just day-to-day life. Is this fact or is it fiction? Absolutely. The lines are so blurred now that it's it's really, really hard to see. I mean, I being in the tech world, I've I've gone to events and I've seen some of my tech friends and especially the more nerdy ones who like to get involved with stuff like this, and they show me videos and they're like, is this you? And I'm like, why did you make that? I I don't even know in certain situations that video wasn't me. All it takes is being able to have your image, being able to have your voice, and you can replicate that. So my advice is like, we need to be really real. The stuff that we put out there, control it. You know, make sure you're careful with what you say. Really? But you also have to be careful that you need to get ahead of this, right? Especially if you're a high-profile individual, especially if you're very present online. The world of you saying things and your voice being kept to you is gone. We will always have to deal with someone trying to impersonate you. We will always have to deal with reputational damage. AI will become something, hopefully, in the future, that's a little bit more regulated. Um, but it's not going away. And to your point, we should be careful with what we're putting into AI platforms as well, right? Who here, probably everybody, uses some sort of AI to help them write an email, to help them create a presentation.

SPEAKER_01 15:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:43

Let's be careful with what we give that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:46

That's great. That's great information. I um uh and I'm glad you're bringing that up. Uh you you're in the business and uh uh AI is changing uh radically. I I hear today uh it's even more advanced than it was six months ago. So uh I don't want to get off topic. Uh Ali was uh I talked to her about this a little bit earlier, but I've watching a couple of AI uh presentations uh this week. Um uh Elon Musk talking about Optimus and his robots are gonna take over and all physicians within the next five years. Uh another guy from ARC uh Financial was saying that uh he he's and he goes on to say, I don't want to really say this too loud because we need the physicians now, but five years from now uh we won't need the physicians. And I'm just going, I don't and then I was telling Allie this morning, it's kind of like uh Sully on that airplane when the jets went down. It was good that Sully was in the plane so he could land it on the Hudson. Right. So the humans are still going to be important, and I think they're still going to be very important in medical care. Totally AI is not there, everyone's not going to want to be treated by a robot.

SPEAKER_01 16:52

I want to give a really real-world happening now example. So I am a college professor and I'm actively training the next generation of students, and it is very much an everyday battle. How we are educating students has to change. I'll give you a few examples. We can't give them at-home testing because we understand that those algorithms are going to get the questions right way faster than the student is in the time period. I can't necessarily give written assignments because I've given written assignments, and they sound like somebody with a PhD that wrote the book wrote them. Um so, of course, like there's always going to be a level in medicine and healthcare and cybersecurity of integrity, and you know, having high levels of integrity mean AI is not you and AI cannot do the job of you. Um, I've heard you talk about this in a few platforms, but why is AI never going to take the place of a high-value salesperson?

SPEAKER_02 17:50

Good question. I think it's the same reason that it probably won't take the place of a doctor. These methods should assist us in our day-to-day. They shouldn't replace us, right? So I will never sit in the camp that says technology will take over the world and there'll be no need for humans. Humans using technology will replace the need for humans that are not, right? So we need to be very, very aware of where if I can take a task that used to take me two hours and do it in 30 minutes, that's fantastic. But what we cannot lose ever is the human element, right? So something that I'm focusing a lot in my future, um, especially from my sales career standpoint, I'm doing a lot of training. And the number one thing we have to focus on is you need to be a human being.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

So the way that you're a big one in healthcare.

SPEAKER_02 18:36

Yeah, the way that you need to read the room when you're treating a patient is the same way that we need to read the room when we're selling to individuals. Exactly. And AI helps us create foundations. AI helps us understand, hey, give me my top 10 differentiators. Help me understand uh, you know, this buyer persona. But if I'm reading off of the script and I'm looking at you and your face tells me, oh my God, I wish you would shut up. That's hard for AI to capture. That's hard for technology to capture. So my advice is let's use it to help us. Let's figure out a way that makes sure we're not replaceable. And a good example of that is Microsoft. They call their AI co-pilot. Co-pilot. Guess who else is there? The pilot. AI is not the pilot. We want to make sure that we can use AI for all of its best of capability, but we need to be the governing body over that to say, wait a second. Like, and a way to regulate this is just for your own knowledge, go online, ask AI to create you an image. It spells everything wrong. Go online and ask AI to fact-check itself. And it's going to sit there and say to you, this is based on the information that's presently available to me today. AI is getting to the point now, some of these chatbots, like they made their own universe, they're creating their own logic. Absolutely. There's a lot of human influence in that. And they're there people are positioning it to say like AI is taking over. Yes and no. People can train algorithms to do certain things. Right. People can train technology to act in certain ways. If I'm a good person, I'm going to create it to do good things. If I'm a bad person, I'm going to create it to do bad things.

SPEAKER_00 20:06

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 20:07

Now we as humans need to realize that we cannot have 100% reliance on any sort of technical platform. That's where our brains will be our most invaluable asset.

SPEAKER_00 20:17

Well said.

unknown 20:18

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 20:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

Yeah. And I have to say, you know, when I talk at its Allie, I she's actually a professor teaching students at college right now, so it's really outstanding. But the media have made this a scary thing. I mean, we they talk about students wondering if they should go to college because they're not going to be the white-collar jobs or middle management jobs out there. Uh everything's going to change and uh AI is going to take over. And so it it it's what you say, but with that message has to get out there. And hopefully, this on our uh wonderful uh podcast here, we got your number, that it does get out there. Yeah. But the media has have uh promoted this uh idea that uh to put that idea into younger people's heads that how do I build myself in the future? Where do I go? How do I what do I learn to anticipate because AI is going to take over?

SPEAKER_01 21:08

So a few things that I talk to my students about, and I think that this is going to be interesting to hear your perspective on, is I say on the first day of class, there are a few things that I need from you. The first is I need you to communicate with me because we have lost the value of proper communication. For example, and these are simple examples, if you're not coming to class the day of the test, you can't tell me after the test and think you're getting credit for the test, right? What I say to them is even when we translate that into the workforce, right? If we are going to create people that are going to achieve in today's workforce, they have to understand how to communicate and they have to be able to express what they need to get across, right? You can't really succeed in a job if you don't have strong communication skills. The second most important thing is, and this is what I want to talk to you about, it because You have fabulous confidence is cultivating confidence because I know you and I've seen you on multiple stages. This girl can have a room of 5,000 men that are 50, that have been in the industry, that are leaders in the industry, hooked in and locked into what you have to say. And I think that the most important thing is let's face it, you're young, you're pretty, you're successful, there's gotta be someone out there that feels threatened by you. How do you use your confidence as a strength in sales and business? Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 22:38

Being a female.

SPEAKER_01 22:39

Yeah. I mean, listen, we have to talk about it. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's not an easy thing to do to be in a male-dominated industry. Yeah. And to not only be in a male-dominated industry, but to be a champion in a male-dominated industry.

SPEAKER_02 22:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:52

What do you do? Because people need this lesson.

SPEAKER_02 22:55

It's hard. The first part of your question is, you know, how do you how does today's students figure out how to separate themselves? It's those skills, right? It's the personal skills. It's being able to have the conversation. It's focusing on an executive presence. But then when you do get into the workforce, being a continuous learner, being someone who wants to understand it, those skills are actually far and few between, right? I I have mentored so many students coming out of college, and they've said to me, I'm not taking this job for less than six figures. And I say, Why? I deserve more. With what? With what experience? What makes you deserve more? Right? Listen, everybody in the world, especially those that work for a degree, deserve to be compensated fairly. But we've got to remember we have to earn our stripes. And earning your stripes looks different for everybody. Earning my stripes for me. Yeah, tell us about that. Going into rooms and people would say, Who's here to help you? And I'd be like, What do you mean? And they said, Who's who's coming to this meeting to run it? And I would say, me. And they'd say, Oh. And I feel like I would lose people in the beginning of the conversation. And then we'd go through the meeting and they'd say, Wow, you actually know what you're talking about. And I'm like, Thanks. So for me, it I got to a point where it was like the best compliment ever, where somebody tell told me that they misjudged me. Or, you know, they they looked at the cover of the book and they thought they knew what it had to say.

SPEAKER_00 24:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 24:13

And for me, I found so much, I'd say, satisfaction in I knew I was the youngest a lot. I knew in certain situations that I was the least experienced. But what I also knew is that nobody in that room would be more prepared than me. Nobody would take the time to understand the subject more than I would. Nobody would take the time to truly sit there and say, I learned it because it means more to me. It's it made me feel so accomplished to be able to go and you know speak on a stage and have a conversation. But it did it from a way where it came from within of being able to say, I I care about this subject. I'm going to learn it. And ultimately, I'm going to be able to learn it in a way that I can teach it to other people, right? Like tech is so hard. It's so confusing. I didn't know the first thing about cybersecurity, anything when I got involved in the industry. Like you talked about the cloud, and I was like, What is the cloud? Like, literally, what is the cloud? I learned what the cloud is. But it my point is, you know, earning your stripes, sit in the rooms, take it on the chin, take the feedback, the good, the bad, take the praise, never let it get to your head. But also realize that there will come a point in time once you put your head down and you truly try and you truly do the right thing, never sacrifice your integrity because you'll look up two years later, three years later, and and your dreams have come true in front of you, and you don't even know how you did it. But it's just tireless work, doing the right thing, focusing on those skills that matter, relationships with people. Again, we want to talk about tech. I don't think a relationship will ever, you know, from a technical perspective, replace what we have right here.

SPEAKER_00 25:54

Where the where the younger and Gen Z and those are missing out are losing with being online all the time and virtual all the time. They're losing the communication skills and they're losing the cues. They don't even have the cues or see the cues. And you have to. And like you said, you've got to take it on the chin. You're not going to win every time. You don't deserve this uh position or uh an advancement in a position just because you're you. Right. I mean, you've got to earn it. Uh you gotta, like you said, earn your stripes, and uh you do that, and uh and that's just uh the the knocks, uh hard knocks of uh becoming successful.

SPEAKER_01 26:32

Yeah, I want to um share one story to wrap this podcast up, and then I have a question for both of you. When I reached out to Dr. Romo and I asked him, you know, if he was open to a conversation to collaborate between me, between me and him, you know, from a um patient care and academic standpoint. I was sitting in the basement of the hospital at the current job that I had. I was fresh out of my doctorate degree, and I was inspired by his academic mind, his reputation, and so on. And I sent that email and I said, you know what? The worst thing that can happen is I never get a response. But after I did get a response, then it was then me showing you that I was competent enough that we could have these conversations. And oftentimes dietitians ask me, even you know, other people in the healthcare space, how do you network with doctors? Um, and I always say to them, you put your best foot out there and you show them that you can be at the table with them. And then also you're open to taking constructive criticism and feedback and growing to if you don't necessarily know something, learning it. Right.

SPEAKER_00 27:42

Uh but on the other hand, you're um since I've been training surgeons for a long time, um I've and I've and had a tremendous interest in uh modulating and modifying and improving uh pre and post-operative uh surgical management. Uh I've been interested in the nutritional field for many, many years. Uh and to bounce into a nutritionist dietitian who's a PhD is as rare as hen's teeth. That person has got to be so committed, so smart. Yeah. So she doesn't even know how smart she is. And that's what I knew about you when I met you.

SPEAKER_01 28:20

So one more question for Rosanna. Um, what is your message? How does someone essentially become an alpha female in a space filled with males? Wow.

SPEAKER_02 28:31

Wow, that's right. So being yourself, you know, so many people, men and women, young, old, and in between, come to conversations with the persona that they think people want to see or they think people want to hear. If you can focus on being unapologetically you, good or bad, I've found personally that is what set me apart from others in the space. I show up and I'm myself. I do things that from an place of integrity. I make sure that you know you put a relationship above all else. Sales is one of those things where 90% of people will do whatever it takes to get a sale. Say whatever it takes, do whatever, put whatever has to be put out there, discounts, whatnot, to get that signature on the line. The 10% that don't are the ones that say no sale is worth a reputational hit. No sale is worth a relationship. So for me, it's just being myself, learning the hard way a lot, um, which I'm so thankful for. And I'm really early in my career. There's a lot of things that I want to do. There's a lot of leaders that I've seen, and I've learned from good leaders, I've learned from bad leaders, and it's shaped me into the person that I want to be for my future. And I think the best is yet to come, and the one thing that I will never sacrifice is what you see is what you get. And uh the good, bad, and everything in between. So it's been a great journey. I'm very, very fortunate for it. And what I will continue to do is surround myself with people always who are, you know, like-minded, have the same goals. Uh, one last example is I used to, especially early in my career, I used to hang out with people. I was, you know, early 20s. Everybody that I socialized with from a work perspective were 40, 50, 60, 70 years old. And some of my friends, you remember this, would laugh at me and they were like, going to hang out with your old lady gang? And I'm like, yeah, because if I am the smartest person in the room, I am in the wrong freaking room. And what I learned from those women was resilience, confidence. Um, you know, I've seen 70-year-old women come and school, literally, people that are they've forgotten more than these people know in these situations. And it's just, it's cool to see that because I've had fantastic women mentors, I've had fantastic male mentors, and there's something to learn from everyone, and those that get that I think are the ones that are going to succeed the most.

SPEAKER_00 31:00

Incredible. I am just and and I want to just end with the uh one word, integrity. Yeah, it is so necessary for us, and and we're so skewed by social media, and we say there's no social media police, and that's gonna probably lead us into our next uh topic that we talk about on the next episode. But uh thank you for being here today. It's incredible, and we're so happy uh that and with the information that you provided us, and we hope you follow us again on We Got Your Number Podcast. So thank you.