16. Tea, Trust & Transparency: Inside the Business of Modern Wellness with Lisa Govro

What does “wellness” actually mean in today’s food and beverage industry — and how do brands build trust in a space full of trends, noise, and overhyped claims?

In this episode of Women Who Make It, Angela Dodd sits down with Lisa Govro, founder and CEO of Big Heart Tea Co., for an honest conversation about entrepreneurship, herbal healing, sustainability, and the evolving wellness movement.

Lisa shares how Big Heart Tea grew from a farmers market trailer into a nationally recognized brand, why ingredient sourcing and packaging transparency matter more than ever, and how wellness brands can stay authentic in an increasingly saturated market. Together, they unpack trends like adaptogens, consumer trust, personalized wellness, and the growing demand for rituals that help people slow down and reconnect.

If you care about wellness, food innovation, sustainability, or building a purpose-driven business, this conversation is packed with insight.

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Transcript

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People are no longer saying I'm stressed. They're saying, can I sustain operating at this level of stress? Welcome to Women Who Make It. Real conversations with women in the food and beverage industry who are building careers, leading teams, and figuring it all out. After years of building females on food, I've had conversations with some of the most brilliant women in the industry. And they shared the real stuff. The pivots, the boundaries, the burnouts, and the moments of is this even working before it finally clicked? So I hit record, and now you get to hear it too. We're women who make it. So let's dig in. Welcome back to Women Who Make It. I'm your host, Angela Dodd, and today's conversation is a fun one for me because it's not just professional, it's personal. I've been a longtime fan of Big Heart Tea, and when I say that, I mean I almost have every flavor stocked in my cabinet at all times. It's become my go-to gift, and I've probably introduced their product to more people than I even realize at this point. And what I've always loved about their tea, not just that it's delicious, the ingredients are super high quality, but it feels thoughtful, it feels intentional, and it feels grounding. And I think that's what makes this conversation so relevant right now. Because wellness is everywhere right now, especially in the food and beverage industry. But we don't always stop to unpack what that actually means, what's working and what's just noise. So today I am so excited to sit down with the founder and CEO of Big HeartT, Lisa Govro, to really talk about the reality of building in this space, what's changing, what's overhyped, and what it really takes to build a brand that stands out. Lisa, I am so excited to have you on the podcast. Welcome. This is a meeting that I have been dreaming up for a long time. So I'm I'm really, really excited to have you here. Ah, thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here with you today. Well, we're gonna we're gonna have a lot of fun and we're gonna talk all thanks tea and wellness. But for our listeners who maybe aren't super grounded in Big Heart Tea or your background founder journey, let's spend a few minutes kind of going back from the beginning because we have a lot to unpack from all these other areas of the conversation and what you're doing today and you know, really defining this space from tea and wellness. But take us back to those early days when you started Big Heart Tea. What was going on in your life, personally, professionally? What did that look like for you? Absolutely. Thank you. That's a great question. Um, I have like a short version and a long version of that answer. Um, but the short version is Big Heart Tea was started as more of like an art project as a way to introduce people to the love of my life, which is turmeric. And there are a lot of us out there who have like this loving relationship with turmeric. We just see it, we smell it, and it like makes our hearts open. And I really thought that like the healing power of herbs, and this was back in 2012 when we originally started our journey, had been gateked a lot by the health and wellness industry, particularly just like messaged or marketed in a way that created barriers that prevented people from experiencing just the space that you get from one cup of tea a day, or it ended up being tea that we chose as the vehicle to go through to help introduce people to herbal healing. Um, it's a very accessible, very relatable, everybody can relate to having a cup of tea. So, again, sort of working on accessibility and helping remove barriers. And so that's really how we started. We started um selling tea out of a trailer at farmers markets and just talking with folks in St. Louis about how they're interacting with herbs on a daily basis. And um, what I found really early on is that almost everyone we talked to had had cultivated a relationship with herbal healing in some way. And so that was a real eye-opener for me that I guess now I would think about it as market size, but at that time it was like the potential. Like we just had a lot of really great feedback and momentum in our journey based on the time we started and kind of talking about the love of herbs. I love that so much. And I do think people have go through their own journey with herbs and learning about it in different ways. And then there's always that also that turning point of with of not just knowing about it, but then making it accessible to people in their everyday lives, which which I think you have done for so many in the space and in this conversation of wellness in those early days. As you go from serving in a truck, right, in a in a farmer's market, going from that to national distribution is not an overnight thing by any stretch of the imagination. Um realize that this is like, oh gosh, I have I have a business here. And before you will say that, I really do appreciate that your first love is turmeric. I will say a love-hate relationship when I'm cooking with it with toddlers. I'm like the amount of turmeric that I'm scrubbing out of clothes from like my homemade chicken soup, you know, with with toddler boys who tripping this down. I'm like, it is, I love it so much until I'm scrubbing it out of clothes. Yeah, it's very memorable in in many ways, in many facets. It is. Okay, so go back and and talk to us about when did you realize this was turning into a business and how did you get from point A to point B in distribution? Yeah, absolutely. I think we had a series of uh milestones that sort of led up to where we are today. Initially, it was our first wholesale inquiry um from a local cafe wanting to serve our tea. And then we were like, okay, we have to like create a wholesale catalog. And that told us that like there was more potential to like put these healing herbs in conventional beverage spaces. So that was really exciting to me to think that we were like covertly healing people at a coffee shop or something like that. Um, and then in 2018, um, we were recipients of a grant called the Arch Grant. It's here in St. Louis, but it is an international innovation startup competition. And that was sort of some huge validation that we weren't just like doing what we loved. I mean, we were doing what we loved, but like other people were in it and supported us as well. And I think our most recent turning point has been um with the unsexy parts of running business, where operationalizing our manufacturing and realizing that we really could build a team and a capacity in-house to meet demand that wasn't super stressful or sort of like last minute, which I think a lot of manufacturing can get out of hand and be a little wacky. So yeah, when you have that, when you have that poll, it's really easy as a founder, right, to want to move as fast as possible and maybe to take shortcuts in the decisions to scale and get there, versus kind of staying true in your path and making really intentional decisions around sourcing and manufacturing. As we move into this wellness conversation, maybe you can tell us spend a few minutes because I know, but I don't think our listeners fully have an appreciation for the ingredients that you source and why that part of your business is so important to you. I think that would be super helpful because it ties so well into like actually how it's functioning in your body. And we spend so much time on it. It's a huge part of our business. Supplier verification, vetting, and constantly being on top of like the latest innovations and sustainable packaging are all really important to our core values. And I kind of am a compliance nerd and a rule follower, like a big rule follower. And so, how um how it ties in is that we want to make sure that our customers are drinking healing tea from a healthy place. And so that means everything from the farm in which it's grown. Um, and so we have some direct trade partnerships where we get our match and our black teas from um wonderful uh generational farms, family farms. And then we have we're also certified organic, which is a really great way for us to not just vet that our teas are healthy and good for you, but when you're talking about herbs, that's more of an aggregated supply chain. So herbs are kind of coming from a variety of different locations. And so it's a little bit harder to get that traceability when you're dealing with an ingredient like that. And so the certified organic, while maybe perceived as like a marketing stamp for us is really a first step for us to vet our suppliers. I think it speaks volumes to, you know, as we were talking earlier before coming into this recording, what's happening in the space day, how do people, how do people know where to what to trust, right? And what's a what's a label versus what's been verified? And I think the brands who are showing up and doing it even before you had to do it, right? And and knowing that the back-end compliance is there. For me as a food scientist, I just have a whole different degree of appreciation. But as I was telling you earlier, and for our listeners who maybe can't see us right now, I'm gonna tell you what I'm drinking because I have some big heart tea in front of me. And I said, as a longtime consumer and somebody who's been drinking teas from around the world for ages, like I could immediately taste the quality difference in your teas versus any other teas, right? Because you're you're not adding flavors and top notes to get the flavors, you're using the raw ingredients to bring through those flavors, and it's so balanced. And for people that can't see it right now, I have their chamomile mint in my cup, and it's ah, there, yes, I love your mugs too. Um it is so good. It's uh it's probably one of the only chamomiles that I can drink all day and and like still feel energized but relaxed from it. Yeah, oh, and the chamomile is so sweet because we do we use whole ingredients in all of our blends, and so when you're when it's brewing, you can really see the rose petal expand or the chamomile expand. And the chamomile across the board from like our production team to our our sales team to our operations team is the favorite in-house um because it just when it comes out, it's just like so cute and so happy. So I love that. I it and yeah, you can you can see it in every cup. It is uh, you got all the whole pieces and it smells divine. Well, yeah, translating translating that quality into the wellness space. So I'm gonna pivot the conversation because wellness is such a top, like it's a hot word right now. And so for those who have been doing wellness for a long time, you're like, I've been here, we've been talking about it. Um, and now it's like it's having this moment, right? Where we're not just talking about wellness and our broader lives, um, but really wellness as it relates to food and beverage and how food and beverage can be this medicine. And if we drill it down a little bit more to that, I think it's this whole realm of women's wellness right now that's getting a very big moment of what food and beverages serve us as women and our bodies' unique needs. And I want to just get your thoughts on this wellness category in general, what it means to you. What are you seeing from trends? What's real versus overhyped? And, you know, how is it impacting your business right now? Yeah, um, that's a great question. I think as I look at the wellness space, um, I've always sort of like kept a gentle eye on what's happening over there. Although I guess we are in the wellness space and I have like an identity crisis about that. Is that I see a lot of trends, like a lot of keywords that are people are top of mind based off of maybe what's trending in social media or in the news, and a lot of approach to address like single issue aspects of a trend. Like, for example, RTs are all blended with a base of Tulsi, um, which is a really gentle healer, also known as an adaptogenic herb. But I feel like the word adaptogen has been way overused and over-marketed to a point where people maybe truly don't understand what the impact of a gentle healing herb can be on their system. And maybe they're expecting something immediate to happen overnight. Or I do see, I mean, our culture really is results focused. Um, and when we when I think about Tulsi, I think about this as like your best friend, you know, like if you don't have a conversation with your best friend, like for some every day, but mostly like once a week, then like you're gonna be a little out of touch with yourself. Um, and so I see like the immediacy, the urgency of um self-care, rather than it being like another super trendy keyword, but a lifestyle. Like it is a part of your life. It's not just something that you can access occasionally and expect to reap the benefits all year round. I think that's so smart. I I don't think I knew like that. Is also I learned something new about your products. I didn't realize that base was was in and like functioning in that way. That's also why I love it so much. I have it's my new best friend. I I uh I love describing Tulsi in that way. With there being so much more, I guess, conversation in this space and awareness, as you put for for better or worse, right? Awareness and and how people are thinking, using, putting it in their bodies from an adaptogen or healing herbal space. I'm curious where you feel like consumers are are truly getting more discerning. And do you feel like the space is is becoming too saturated? Like, have we hit kind of that tipping point? And so, kind of on both sides of like consumer awareness, do you feel like there's still so much more education that needs to be had? Or do you feel like there is a true discernment that people are seeking products with a true understanding? And then, yeah, where's the saturation point in all of it? Yeah, that is a great question. And one of the reasons why I think we uh delayed so much on like really putting ourselves out there in the space, um, is because as a small brand, we don't have the marketing power, the marketing reach to do a lot of the education that was needed in the early days. Um, but now consumer consciousness has like come such a long way just in the last five years, where folks are coming to us asking us questions where we're like, let me get back to you on that. And so that tells me that we're not looking to be spoon-fed. Customers aren't looking to be spoon-fed information about what they need for their bodies because we're realizing that our body is unique to us and our healing method or our way of operating in the general daily world is gonna be different from the person next to us. And so we're all like sort of individualizing or personalizing how what our wellness journey looks like. And so, yeah, I think that we need to treat our customers like with a little bit more respect, like that they actually know what they're looking for. And um, and we just need to be there to assure them that we are doing everything and in good conscience and that they can trust what they're taking as something that would support their healing journey. Yeah, I love that desire for that individualization and personalization in that eating experience or that healing journey, right? Depending on where they're approaching the conversation, but really meeting them where they're at is really important. I hadn't it's really good insight. I hadn't quite thought of it in that way and looking at the trend in in that perspective. I think it's a really strong insight to what we're seeing happening in in the industry, especially as we think about Gen Z. I guess that's the other, that's the other piece, is like as you're looking at brands, where do you think brands are getting it wrong right now? I guess let's look at the other side of that coin. Yeah, I mean, uh, you mentioned Gen Z, but Gen Alpha as well, like as a mother of a Gen Alpha, um, I know that young people are really reaching for more functional, um, another word that I'm I have like conflict with, but more muted undertones and flavor, something that is more natural that's not gonna overstimulate their senses. Um, and so I think that there is like this old way of like developing a food that's like just packed with flavor and it's just gonna like leave a lingering in your taste buds. And while that's all well and good, I think there's also a real opportunity to like create a little bit more nuance in the flavor profiles that lends more to the natural aspect of the ingredient. Um, because when we do have those flavor-packed bites or teas, generally there's something behind there that is adding that extra oomph of flavor that may not be regulated in a way that herbs and foods are also regulated. So yeah, I think that's what most people don't fully appreciate or understand for better or worse. You know, I think some brands are are doing it right and and you know, are taking a very strong look at the compliance and what ingredients that they're using. But there's plenty of opportunities, especially in this space where teas are not as regulated as other food and beverage products, to be adding things into them that consumers might not have that full transparency around and not know how you're getting those notes coming through. And I think that trust in brands, you know, that's the other piece you you and I were talking about earlier, is like how do how are brands and and how are you driving you know that trust and authenticity with your with your client? Because in this space where digitization, we're all sol we're so overstimulated. And in a space of AI and digitization digitization, I can't even say that. Um how do we know how do we know what's real? And you know, would love we'd love for you to take a few minutes to talk about how you guys are showing up in your most authentic way and driving that trust with with your community. Yeah, absolutely. I think one of the best examples I have is like a recent dilemma that I am dealing with. So like the facts, we have like facts, realities, and then we have dilemmas as business owners, right? Like the reality is I have this great company, we have amazing customers, we have a great product, but the dilemma is how do we keep pushing ourselves to um not just live our values, but sort of like continue evolving or innovating our values. And one of those places that that shows up for me most is in the packaging of our product. Tea has been on the hot seat for quite a moment now for um microplastics being found in tea bags. And um, we've always been sort of in front of that because the composition of our teabag now is non-GMO sugar cane. Before that, it was wood pulp. And so we've like, we've evolved the composition of our packaging whenever there's new products or new innovations available. Um, and so like the current thing that we have is like, well, plastic is a big issue not just for our internal health, but also for our external health in our environment that we live in. And as we are expanding into the wellness space, we had to take a little bit of a step back in our values to develop a product that met the customer expectation of a single served product. And so while our teabags will always be plastic-free and nature-based, and we'll be continuing to innovate and improve those as new materials come available in the actual packaging space, like the film wrap that wraps the teabag, we're limited. We're limited by what's available based off of mostly volume. Key players in the industry choosing not to push the innovation side of the packaging to something that's more plant-based and compostable. And so, you know, we pay a little bit of an extra tax to have a recyclable plastic product. But we now are really doing a lot of research in like sea kelp packaging and ways that we can kind of like continue to push, but also knowing that like we're very limited because of the scale of our business, we just don't have the volume to push innovation like it needs to be. And so I think looking for um partners who are sort of like never happy, um, that would that's like a really good indication. Like we have we have everything sort of in that we're taking into consideration, even though we are a small tea manufacturer. So that's huge. I hope those individuals listening realize how rare that is, right? How rare that is in this industry to be seeking out that level of sustainability and and responsibility within the packaging space and innovating in that way. I I mean, even coming into this conversation, this is even news to me. Like most people buy it and don't realize how much thought and intention goes into every decision made in that product, right? Um, from the teabags. I only recently went down this rabbit hole of like microplastics and teabags, which I I didn't even realize there was a solution for it, um, which seems silly that of course there's a solution. And of course you guys are uh um have found ways to have plant-based teabags. But I was on Instagram when I saw somebody punching holes through like an orange rind to like sieve the tea through an orange rind. I was like, but I guess that's I guess that's one way to steer away from microplastics and tea bags. That seems like a tremendous amount of work. So I'm like even more grateful learning this about your products right now because I'm like, no, I'm just gonna stick with big heart tea. No, no grilling holes in an orange for me. Like I'm I'm gonna stick with big heart tea and call it a day. Um that's uh it's uh super relevant to like literally the rabbit hole I just went down, maybe too. Yeah, I mean it's really an issue of convenience, right? Like if we want to have a fast cup of tea that doesn't mess our mess our kitchen up, there's gonna be some sacrifice there because obviously having like a loose tea experience is the way that tea has been prepared for thousands of years and probably the best way to have it. Um, but if we, you know, want to be easy on ourselves and have that convenience, um, we have to realize that also comes at a cost. And so yeah, absolutely. Um yeah, I couldn't agree more. And with busy mom and toddler boys, I I will say those trade-offs are real for me every single day. And where where are we gonna find that convenience? Yeah. Um so going into like how business has evolved, um, because I know there's been many shifts, and I was first introduced to your product actually in a spa. Royal treatment was the beverage of choice. And for those who don't know, it's like this beautiful blend of lavender. Um what's you have to remind me what's the base. It's lavender mixed with yeah. Yeah, it's lavender, um, spearmint, peppermint, Tulsi, and um, we used to blend it with ginkgo, but we no longer do. So it's just Tulsi, lavender, spearmint, and peppermint. It is so good. So I'm sitting in a spa and I have this in my cup, and I'm like, oh my gosh, where can I like I've never had something with a lavender like ingredient in it mixed with that mint. It's such a beautiful combination. And so I know you had really leaned into one, like introducing people to the products through coffee shops, through spas, through gifting. And as an early business, like that's a that's a strategy decision, right? To like what channels are you really going to focus on? And I'm I'm curious, as your business has evolved, what decisions have you had to make? I have to think maybe COVID played a big piece into how your strategy has evolved, but curious to walk our listeners through that as a business owner and and how did you decide on those channels initially and where are you going today? Yeah, oh my gosh, sales channel is like so so I think about it all the time because obviously we have to sell our tea. And when I first started the business, like I spent months and months in the aisle of Whole Foods, the tea aisle of different retailers, just looking at what was available on the market and where we could kind of fit in and like add a little bit of differentiation. Because the truth is that like tea is a really pretty small industry when we're talking about specialty tea, and we're all friends and we all know each other, and we all know we have like a great product. And so um, how do we find our differentiation? And I thought we were just gonna go right into Whole Foods and um grocery is gonna be our model. Um, but I learned very quickly that obviously in the grocery aisle, people are price shopping. And if you have like a $12 box of tea next to a $5 box of tea, like who cares if it's a butter tea or if the packaging is cute or the quality is amazing, um, you're gonna make a price-based decision in that moment most times. Um I think that that is changing quite a bit, but in the early days, that was um one of the biggest barriers that we had. And so we would get shelf space and grocery. Then the hard part of like marketing and selling it at the grocery space, that's really what became the issue. And so we learned pretty quickly that we needed to look at markets that were not traditional tea spaces. And so that that moment really happened in 2020 for us. Prior to 2020, we were serving largely uh 70% of our business was cafes and restaurants, and all of that went away overnight. Um, but at the same time, when all of that business went away, our phones still were ringing because corporate gifting became such a giant part of business. Um, I didn't even know what corporate gifting was. Like I do kind of feel like I'm a village idiot in a lot of ways in business, but we were then feeling like sending tea to every employee at Microsoft and like realizing the potential and the volume and not just, you know, addressing that market, but then getting tea in everyone's cabinet at their homes and how that could create a natural, like recurring customer. And so um we have spent a lot of time in the gifting space. Big heart, our packaging is authentically naturally giftable. So we have like our royal treatment, our cup of love, like all these are just like sort of my cheesy way of I want somebody in the tea aisle to feel like we're talking to them, like we're like nurturing them just from the eye of the package. And so um we authentically created a very giftable product. And so we fit very authentically into that industry. And we've seen so much success. And um, we're able to really build our business and our volume based off of being a giftable product. So while that's great, I love, I love that story because it's like gifting was like our night in shining armor and a time, a really dark time for a lot of small businesses. But it also um has been a challenge for me personally because like the values that we care about so much, the quality mainly, the taste and the flavors of our tea, that's not why our product is being chosen by those buyers. Of course, they love our tea, but they also like the way that it looks in a gift set. And so it was a little bit of a it's been a journey. It's been a journey trying to realize, like, okay, we can fit in this place, but then where do we want to go? Like, where now we have like the autonomy to just decide what our next step is and where we want to go. And so just looking at our long list of customers, because believe me, like tea is not coffee. Like we have to sell a lot of tea in order to build this company. And so we do have a quite a long list of customers throughout the country. And just looking at trends that we were seeing, and spa was one of those where we realized that this was such a great opportunity because one um spa is a really accessible point for a lot of people. We're all trying to get through the day and be well or like have just a moment of peace. And so I think, you know, everyone from like your single mom to, you know, your, I don't know, business owner, which was me, both of those, um, would be accessing that space to get a a little bit of tranquility. Um so they're serving our tea. It's like a pre-treatment pause, is how we consider it. But then it's also you can take that ritual home. You can uh take it, buy it in the gift shop after your your service, and and then continue recreating that ritual at home. Um, and that was from the sales perspective, that was the like one-to-punch that we were really looking for. So um ways that we could build a customer authentically through them trying our tea and just enjoying it, having a joyful experience and wanting to take it home. And so that is currently where we see ourselves pushing a lot more is ways that we can talk to people through um spaces like spas or wellness spaces where they're already sort of open to that idea. I think is brilliant. And even the articles that I've been reading recently, even other brands identifying where do you show up as a brand to meet your client? And right now, people are needing that space for reset, clarity, energy, renewal, even in females and food. I mean, our second annual State of Women in the Industry results are coming out. I've seen the first glance at them, but the words we asked people in one word to describe how they would describe the last 12 months of their working environment. And there was both sides of the coin displayed, but what was the strongest in that word cloud and the biggest words that we were seeing were challenging, burnout, frustrating, and just a level of depletion. It was, you know, we've always we know working environments and people's lives are stressful here in the States. Like as a society, we lead high stress lives. But the change, the catalyst for the change that we're seeing in this data is that people are no longer saying, I'm stressed. They're saying, can I sustain operating at this level of stress? And they're seeking out those places for their own wellness. Um, I think those spas and brands are seeing it from Lululemon. How do we, how do we create our own spa experience and bring our brand to the spa, right? I think there's gonna be so much opportunity in the space of wellness and spas and meeting people where they need that time to physically reset and get that wellness experience. I think your tea fits so beautifully there. I was, as I said, I was introduced to it at a spa, and we all want to carry that experience home with us. And I and I did. I'm like test market number one here. Yeah, it worked out. I'm uh I'm a raving client now. So I hope uh all the spas are listening. Bring big heart tea in. If you're a client at a spa, please be asking. If they're not offering you a beverage at the start of your service, then uh you should be asking for it and let them give them that feedback. Say, you know what would enhance my experience a little bit more in your in your spa is a cup of big heart tea. Oh my god, thank you for that amazing. I'm gonna manifest that for you. All of our listeners, the thousands of you or hundreds, or maybe just one, just like start asking for it. Do do a sister a favor and uh and start requesting it. So well, as gosh, we could we could continue this conversation all day long. And there's like a hundred more questions I want to get to, but you know, your advice. You've been in this space for what, 15 years now? I'm like doing the math since 2012. That's a challenging thing to do at this point in the day. Um we don't have to do that math. Yeah, yeah. Let's not do that math. Um, what advice do you have for founders? You know, I I even see a lot of young founders coming into this space, specifically into the wellness space. What advice do you have for them as they're coming into their own entrepreneurial journey, whether it be food and beverage or whether it be wellness? What would you tell them? Yeah, I love that question because I actually am bringing on my niece. She's a junior in high school this year to do an internship with Big Heart. Um, she wants to be an entrepreneur as well. And in our first meeting, I was talking with her about value and authenticity, like your values, your personal values, and how you can authentically bring those into whatever you're doing, no matter what sort of business you're in. And I think one of the most important things for me is to be grounded in what matters to you. Um, so we know that like big heart, like I know herbs and I know tea, and like I know that stuff. But like what I have to constantly be reevaluating is like why, the like the why of what I'm doing. And so I think it's really important to be like curious about why people make decisions that they make and why you're making decisions that you make, and more like a philosophical approach to education. Like I think about my undergrad in Western civilization and how I hated that class, like when it was going on, like going through it, but like how often I like refer back to like my morals and my values and what I stand for, and like this baseline of um what drives me to keep going. And so when I look at these young founders and I think that there's so much noise in the world, and there's all this like, I mean, sexy representation of what running a business looks like. And yeah, it can't be sexy at times. I mean, I'm here with you right now, but like I think it's just really important to just be rooted in what matters to you. And I think that that for us, the authenticity has really been what has has kept us going and has kept me going, honestly, because anybody, I mean, like, as long as you don't quit, the chances of you succeeding are are pretty high. But you have to love what you're doing, you have to believe in what you're doing. And that all starts with like really understanding sort of what your hard yeses and your hard no's are. So yeah, it's so it's so important because you will be pushed every single day. And if you're not really strong in that why, and if it's not coming back into your head, and that why it shouldn't change, but I think you need a constant kind of like reminder to that. Like you need to hear it in yourself and in your thoughts and from your clients on a regular occasion to stay on that true north because there is so much noise in that entrepreneurial journey that can take you along a different path because everybody has a different opinion for your business. Yes. Um, and some of that feedback can be super valuable, and other bits you just gotta let it go and and stay true to what what you know is in your heart and your values. Well, goodness, like I said, I'm gonna invite uh Lisa needs to come to our next uh our next females in food event. I think everybody can use a little bit of Lisa their life. Um, I have so enjoyed this conversation. Um since she can't be everywhere, her tea can be everywhere. Tell people where, you know, where can they find you today? Um, tell them your website. I know you have direct to consumer as well. Where can they connect with you personally with Big Heart Tea? Buy your tea, share more. Yeah, absolutely. Well, of course, if you live in St. Louis, um our tea's all over the city and wonderful family-owned restaurants and cafes and shops right outside of St. Louis. Um, the best way to get us is um our website, bigheartea.com. Um, and then um if you aren't an online shopper, um uh we have an amazing, they're gonna hate me. We have an amazing customer service team um that can always like pick up the call and help you um make sure that we get that order through for you. And so again, with the accessibility, we don't want online ordering to be a barrier to your happy teeth moment. So I love it. You're telling, you're telling that is, I mean, these are all those small decisions. You're telling me if I pick up the phone that somebody will take my order. I'm not telling everybody to do that, but like the fact that you have humans on the other side to still accept an order is is pretty incredible. Um I think if that doesn't speak volumes to just the integrity and character of the company that you're building, I'm not sure what does. So thank you, Angela. Lisa, I am so enjoyed this conversation. To our listeners, if you have also resonated with this conversation, enjoyed the conversation, please go like, comment, share this conversation with your friends, with your family, request Big Heart Tea. There's nothing truly you can do to help us more as women in this industry than a simple like or connection or referral. So would really love for you guys to do that. For Lisa with Big Heart Tea and Women Who Make It, be sure to uh follow along on the podcast. Because at the end of the day, we're not just making food, we're making moves, we're women who make it. We'll see you next time. Thank you all. Thank you for listening to Women Who Make It. If today's episode inspired you, please follow the podcast so you never miss one of these powerful conversations. And we would also love your help in growing this community by sharing the show with friends and colleagues, because together our stories can create change. 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