Podcasters Roundtable: Change Your One Thing with Gary Thompson

Join us for a moving conversation with Gary Thompson, creator of the Team Powdered Donut™️ podcast and advocate for the metastatic breast cancer community. After losing his wife Maureen to stage IV breast cancer in 2014, Gary has dedicated over a decade to cancer advocacy, keeping her memory alive through a simple yet profound tradition—powdered donuts.

In this episode, Gary shares the origin of his podcast name, the challenges of raising three children as a widower, and why he's embarking on an ambitious cross-country road trip to 73 NCI-designated cancer centers. He'll capture stories from patients, caregivers, researchers, and healthcare professionals—creating what he calls "StoryCorp for cancer centers."

We discuss the value of storytelling in the cancer community, sustainability in podcasting, finding your "one thing" that can create meaningful change, and how Gary is discovering himself again in the empty nest years. From his unexpected podcast guests met while Uber driving to his vision for a future retreat center, Gary reminds us that love isn't just big or small—it's always enough.

Memorable quotes:

• "We don't have to change everything. We just have to change our one thing."
• "Worst club ever. Most beautiful members."
• "You are loved very deeply by people that you may never meet."

Episode Highlights:
• The powdered donut tradition and how it became a podcast
• Planning a multi-year road trip to cancer centers across America
• The lasting impact of cancer on caregivers and families
• Why there's no such thing as too many patient stories
• Advice for aspiring podcasters: start with purpose, not platform

Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed the episode, subscribe and leave a review — it really helps. Follow us on social media @livefromstage4 and visit our website at www.livefromstage4.org for show notes and links.

 Your support helps us continue to share important stories and advocate for those living with metastatic breast cancer.

Until next time, take care and keep pushing for progress.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:10

But if you are for the answer to the closest anything, welcome to Life from Stage Four, where MPC takes center stage as we talk to experts who share inspiring stories, break down science, and design the spotlight on what matters most. Because when it comes down to it, the spot for us and by us is all about us. Hello, friends. Welcome to Life from Stage 4. I'm Victoria Goldberg, and here today with my friend and co-host, Abigail Johnson, at the podcast of this round table. And I'm facing a dilemma. Usually, when I record an episode, I'm hunting for that one perfect quote to end with. You know, the mic drama. Well, our guest today gave us about 25 of them. So I have no idea how I'm going to choose. Gary Thompson is the host and producer of the Team Powder Donut Podcast, where he shares stories of everyday people doing extraordinary things, from cancer researchers and advocates to Uber riders with inspiring tales. And yes, there is a beautiful story behind the name. The weekend before Gary's beloved wife, Maureen, died from metastatic breast cancer in 2014. When Gary brought her a powdered donut into the car, she smiled and leaned forward to turn up the air conditioning. As the AC kicked into high gear, the powder blew everywhere. They laughed. Just like Gary has sprinkled Maureen's ashes and places of love since her passing. He's been sprinkling the powder and the love of the donut by carrying bags of Mrs. Baird's powdered donuts to special places in her memory. And next year, he's taking that love on the road, literally, on the cross-country trip to visit Kansas Centers and capture more stories. Gary comes from what he calls a long line of talkers. And in this conversation, he takes us from the powdered donut moment to his love crusade, from emptinessing to finding himself again, and somehow makes us laugh and cry in the same breath. He's also got this philosophy about the one thing that we don't have to change everything. We just have to change our one thing. And if we each change our one thing, we change everything. So grab a powdered donut. Or if you are in New York City, get yourself a dough donut and get ready for a conversation that's equal to parts. Heartwarming, hilarious, and full of wisdom. Let's get into it. Gary, it is so wonderful to have you with us. And I'm here with Abigail Johnston at the virtual podcasters roundtable. And we will talk to Gary Thompson. So first let's get started by having you introduce yourself. I was gonna ask you how you came up with the idea of your podcast name and all of that, but just please tell us about it yourself.

SPEAKER_00 4:15

Well, Victoria and Abigail, first of all, thank you very much for inviting me to be part of this. Live from stage four is incredibly important. I am who I am because of 25 years of marriage with my late wife Maureen, who was originally diagnosed while pregnant with my youngest, who's doing a semester abroad right now in Rome. Dealt with the disease, mastectomy, chemo, radiation after Caitlin was born, five years of remission, came back in 08. But then in early 2014, it snuck out. And we, of course, know the fancy term for that, which is metastasize. Just a little bit about me. I started my career at Apple, like we were talking about beforehand, Victoria. And that's where I met Maureen. I've been in tech, I've run an executive roundtable organization. That's got me to where I am now. And where are you now? So I'm in Austin, Texas. Maureen and I came down here 31 years ago. I hate saying that number out loud because it's more than half my life. So people can officially do the math on my age.

SPEAKER_01 5:22

You're in the right group here. Well, no. Excuse me, Abigail is not part of that group.

SPEAKER_00 5:28

You were asking me about, and again, kudos to you for launching this podcast. But the powdered donut traditions, pretty simple one, which is the weekend before Maureen passed, and we knew things were tough, but we didn't know they were imminent, like they were prescribed donuts. And so we got in our Honda Odyssey because the kids were still young and we needed doors that opened with the push of a button. And so I said to Maureen, what's your favorite? Went into the bakery, came back out with a powder donut, and she turned up the AC because at that point, with plural effusions and things being in her lungs, easier to breathe colder than hot. Powder blue everywhere. I'm pretty sure when I traded in the car that it still had powdered donut dust in it. And that's been the tradition I've kept on October 21st, the day of her passing for 11 years. So that's where the Teen Powder Donut podcast came from.

SPEAKER_02 6:16

So, Gary, as you look back on that experience, which obviously has shaped what you have done since then, even prior to Maureen's passing, what keeps you connected to the MBC community?

SPEAKER_00 6:29

A really awesome question. You, Victoria, the 44,000 other women and some men that pass from this disease every year. I could have very easily looked away from cancer after my wife passed and said some impolite words about the disease, which I say I'm private.

SPEAKER_01 6:48

This is not a PG podcast. So go right ahead.

SPEAKER_00 6:53

Oh, so you got those settings when you post this to YouTube. Got it. But you know, guys, it's one of those things where we each have something that we can contribute. And whatever I can contribute, I see Maureen in each of you. And 118 people dying from this disease a day is simply not okay.

SPEAKER_02 7:12

How do you see that affecting your kids as you continue to lean into the MBC community? As a parent, I am looking at that as a trauma. They lost their mom in various phases of life.

SPEAKER_00 7:24

That is a great question. So my kids, for those that don't know, were 15, 13, and 10 and a half when their mom passed, a son and two daughters. They're dealing with a single parent. I joke that they got stuck with me and not mom. I would have traded in a heartbeat if that was even possible. You know, it has its lasting effects, right? My son had his Eagle Scout ceremony, mom wasn't at it. They've all graduated from high school and college, and mom wasn't at it. There's all of those life moments, or like my youngest, who's over in Rome, can't ask her the questions. There's financial toxicity, there's time toxicity, and then there's the shadow that you just can't even quantify. Like the parts that you just don't know. So yeah, it's one of those things where we put our heads together after their mom passed and just said, okay, it's taken one, we're not letting it take four more. And Maureen lived with the disease, Maureen lived with the treatment like you guys do, and showed up every day like you guys do. Then the best way to honor her memory was to continue to show up in our own ways in her memory.

SPEAKER_01 8:26

That's so wonderful. And you know what's interesting? Abigail has said once, more than once, probably, that her children never knew her before cancer. My kids at least had some memory of me before cancer. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:43

I could have easily been a single father of a five-year-old, three-year-old, and a newborn, but catching a lump in her right breast and going, that doesn't feel like a lump in a pregnant woman should feel. And we were able to get on top of it early, because otherwise it just would have been different. So the kids, to your point, Victoria, at least have memories of their mom that are their own memories, not me sharing memories. But that said, they know a life of us running around to appointments all the time and mom being tired on Saturday after fusions.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

Yeah. So why don't we talk more about your podcast? As I mentioned to you in the email, you started it recently and you have twice as many episodes as we do. And I thought we were doing really well.

SPEAKER_00 9:32

Your episodes are great ones. So I just hope mine measure up to the quality of the ones that you already have out there.

SPEAKER_01 9:38

Thank you. So tell us about it, how you decided to actually propel into this podcast sphere, and tell us about the road trip that you're planning for more than that.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

Oh, absolutely. No, thanks, Victoria. Little did I know I was going to launch a podcast. So what's interesting is from 03 to 06, I actually ran Apple's education business in Texas, which is both K-12 and higher ed. And it was in 05 that Apple brought podcasting into the iTunes platform. Podcasting was a thing, but that started to make it mainstream. I had a person on my team that went around to teach schools how to do podcasts. And who knew? So it was kind of funny, Victoria, last summer when I got this bee in the bonnet and said, I want to tell stories. So the reason I decided to launch a podcast was knowing that I was going to do the road trip. So I have taken powdered donuts to special places around Austin every year on October 21st. And suddenly realized, like, hold it, this could be interesting. So, like Story Core, which is something that NPR hosted, which was an airstream that went to capture stories, was in the back of my mind. This could be really cool because I love people, right? 100% just love people. I've been privileged to do cancer advocacy for well over a decade. What would happen if I did Story Core but went to every one of the cancer centers? Because originally I was going to do a book about our love story and then go on the road to the book tour. And I'm like, hold it. That may be a set of stories my kids are not as comfortable having out in the world. And part of being a good parent is realizing that at a certain point in the process, you're not that role anymore, that they're young adults living their own lives. So all of that to say, I'm like, oh, this could be super interesting, but then decided, gosh, let's start to build up some momentum ahead of doing podcasts from the airstream while I'm at the cancer centers and do it ahead of time. And then I've just been really lucky to have a bunch of guests that I've met over the years doing cancer advocacy. That's kind of what got it going.

SPEAKER_01 11:59

And like most of our listeners, I wasn't exactly sure what story core was. So I looked it up and wanted to share it with you. In 2003, StoryCorping oral histories and permanent storyboards hardly decides an app and a traveling mobile booth, a branded energy material converted into a cozy sound-treated recording studio. Inside two people sit across from each other with broadcast quality mics and headphones for a guided forty-minute conversation led by a trained facilitator. Sessions are free. Every recording is archived at the Library of Congress, and many are later edited for broadcast and the podcast everyday stories that remind us how much they connect us. All right, back to the conversation with Gary Thompson. So, what exactly are you gonna do when you get to those NCI-designated cancer centers? Are you going to do community centers as well?

SPEAKER_00 13:28

Yeah, and another great question. Unfortunately, this community that's likely listening to your podcast knows what NCI is. But for some of my audience that might not, NCI stands for National Cancer Institute. It's a really important organization that funds grants and other investments in cancer centers. Comprehensive cancer centers, like I just talked about with Leon Platanias, who's the director of the Northwestern Cancer Center, those are the ones that really touch it all, right? So there's 73 comprehensive cancer centers, as you guys know, and some aspiring ones that get rated by their peers. So, like if you've got a stinky cancer or a rare cancer or just one of those, then you want to get to one of the NCI centers. And then fortunately, if it's done right, that knowledge weaves its way out into the community hospital so that everybody benefits. Just a little backdrop. So what I'll do at each is I'll arrive on a Monday. I've got four that have committed so far, and I'm just getting started on that. But basically, park on Monday, get set up Tuesday, Wednesday with the Cancer Center's help and others, have people sit in the podcast studio, capture stories to share, and then on Thursday, press social media day, and then just a big party on Thursday evening to just celebrate everyone, to honor the patients, to honor the caregivers, to honor the nurses and the researchers and everybody else that makes it possible to shine a light on this incredible network of cancer care that we have in our country.

SPEAKER_02 15:02

So are you going to be interviewing employees or are you going to be interviewing patients as well? And who gets to pick which patients you interview?

SPEAKER_00 15:10

All of the above, right? When I think about patients and their kids, there's a set of questions that I know my kids would love to have their mom's answer to that they don't have their answer to. That could be an interview, that could be a conversation. They may come out of that saying, hey, by the way, we want to keep that private, but we just want to take advantage of the fact that you're here to record it and have it in an archive somewhere that we can tap. Others may be more public. But when I think back to the journey of the oncologists we had, Mariana Chavez McGregor, who's well known in the community, we were blessed by her care towards the end, like our friend Janice Cowden, which we discovered in an SABCS one year, stories like that. The nurses, right? When I think about the infusion nurses and the folks that were always there for morning, equally important. And then, of course, the cancer center directors themselves to shine a light on what their centers are doing with a goal of more philanthropy, which is something Leon talked about. Like dollars that aren't tied to a grant let them experiment on things that work and don't. But whether they work or don't, you're getting new answers. And so that's the real goal of capture stories, but then shine a light in a way that people can invest. And then I suspect we'll probably have a site for people to throw in recommendations and nominations and kind of do like Story Core did, which is to figure out how to line things up because who better than the community itself to help guide that?

SPEAKER_02 16:32

Well, I think that would be fun to promote to our audience as well. We'd love to make sure that there's lots of MVC people represented in that tour.

SPEAKER_00 16:40

Oh, 100%. 100%. I really do think the answer to so much of this stuff is community driven, which is why I'm so glad there's this podcast, and I know all the boards you both sit on, respectively, of other groups. It's not about one thing, it's about a lot of one things, and then just orchestrating and harmonizing that to have as big an impact as possible.

SPEAKER_01 17:00

Are you coming to New York at some point?

SPEAKER_00 17:02

I will be coming to New York. So there's a few basic ground rules on my trip. My daughter doesn't graduate TCU until May of next year. The big trip can't start until that's done because I got to focus on that. So I'm gonna hit the southwest starting in Phoenix this October. I'll be at SABCS and then wrap up at MD Anderson. So staying close to home, a little trial run, and then June of next year after she's out of school, then I'll weave my way around the country.

SPEAKER_01 17:29

So it's really an extended almost two-year project, right?

SPEAKER_00 17:34

Yeah, so I'm old school enough that I wanted to get out a big map and put it on my wall and get my red pencil out and start drawing lines. However, I've been having close conversations with my friend ChatGPT, saying, okay, okay, July and August off, right? A little downtime, one week a month off. You have to go a logical route to drive, and you can't be in the Northeast in the winter. So I'd have to come to New York in May or June when hopefully the snow stopped. But yes, 100% will be in New York.

SPEAKER_01 18:04

So I wanted to ask you something that I've been grappling with for a while. Stories. Are they actually still interesting to people who listen to us? There are so many out there. What is that organization, Abigail, that interviews patients and collects stories? The patient story. There's so many patient stories out there. So I'm always a little reluctant to do an episode that just centers on stories. You seem to have a different opinion on that.

SPEAKER_00 18:40

You know, I think there are as many stories as there are people. And so it could be the case that one story of someone that has a particular situation at a particular time in life isn't out there. So I do think the one thing we probably need, and I think this is true of some of my other work around medical information and medical data too, is we need to find some way to tag all of these stories so that it's not dependent on people finding the exact channel and the exact podcast. Exactly. People can go, this is who I am. Please share with me all the stories. And maybe one pops up from my podcast, maybe one pops up from your podcast, maybe one pops up from somewhere else. But we each have a unique network of friends and relationships that lead to the stories we get the chance to tell. And as long as there's another person that's willing to share their story, I never think there's too many.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

That's a very good answer. So to tie in with what you were saying, it sounds like promoting what we do is probably not less important than the content we produce, but actually promoting it. And we have a problem with that. We're still trying to find our ways. So you, as a more experienced person, how do you deal with that?

SPEAKER_00 20:02

Yeah, it's interesting to think of myself as experienced. I like to joke with sales teams I've led and other organizations that there's two paths to success in life: dumb luck and brilliance. The trick is to not tell anybody which particular one you happen to be using at any given moment in time.

SPEAKER_01 20:20

Whisper to us which one were you using?

SPEAKER_00 20:23

Yeah, every time, dumb luck. And serendipity. When I think about it from a non-story perspective, and I think about it as a marketing guy, which I've done in my life, it's all about when you have a guest, that guest comes with their own community. So getting the guest to share their story out to their community means that there's going to be a ripple effect. And so that's kind of how I think about it. The other thing, and I'm finding my way to is I think part of its longevity, right? So what I'm starting to think about is okay, at this point, if somebody discovered my podcast back in November of last year, they could listen to a couple, three episodes, and there might not be another one that they really wanted to listen to. Now I've got a dozen, dozen and a half, where if they discover my podcast now and like it, hopefully, then they can listen to the whole catalog. So I do think part of it is just sticking with it. Audience will slowly build over time. I think part of it is just patience and fortitude to just keep going. And then the other thing I'm thinking about is okay, I'm gonna go back to some of the episodes and find little one-minute clips of really pithy stuff and then post that as like, hey, lesson learned here, lesson learned there, and to the point where people go, huh, if that minute was that interesting, maybe I want to go listen to some of the other stuff too. So I'm exploring just like you are.

SPEAKER_01 21:45

Have you found an ideal length for an episode?

SPEAKER_00 21:49

You know, that's another good question. And it really is interesting to think about this podcasting thing as an art with this roundtable series that you're doing. Because I know you've got some great guests on the science. And the advocacy. I've had some that are as short as 30 to 35 minutes, like I think about the one I just did with Leon. I've had some that go just over an hour. I think for what we do, I think that's about the right length, somewhere between 30 minutes, because any less than 30 minutes, and you're not really getting into a good conversation. And it's usually like Suzanne Stone, who's now the CEO of Livestrong, pointed out to me, always ask the next question. And so you've got to have them be long enough to follow the rabbit trail of questions to get to the unexpected answers that are the real gold.

SPEAKER_01 22:35

Right. Abigail, this is yokyu to ask a real gold question.

SPEAKER_02 22:42

We all play the different roles on this discussion here. My whole idea about doing this round table with other podcasters is that ripple effect that you were talking about, Gary. But I'd really like to know who you believe is your ideal audience. Who are you talking to?

SPEAKER_00 23:01

So my ideal audience is actually a lot like the theme of my podcast. So one of the quotes I have that formed after Maureen Past is we don't have to change everything. We just have to change our one thing. And if we each indeed change our one thing, then we'll have changed everything. And so when I think about my ideal audience, it really is someone looking for their one thing and realizing that whatever it is, whenever they find it, to just follow their heart, follow their passion, and go for it. And it's enough. So my ideal audience isn't a demographic, it isn't a category. You guys know me well enough to know what I'm all about, which is individuals. We as an individual person have the capacity to create great change. And you guys are both testament to that. I know what you both do. You're doing your thing, and that makes a huge difference. And like love, it's neither big nor small. It's always enough.

SPEAKER_02 24:01

So who has been your favorite guest so far? And who has been the most surprising guest so far?

SPEAKER_00 24:10

Oh man, darn you. Good questions. Because in the back of my mind, I thought you were about to ask is what was my favorite episode or my easiest and my hardest episodes?

SPEAKER_02 24:21

I had to change it up for you.

SPEAKER_00 24:22

I know, I know. Keep the podcast and dude on his toes. You know, the most surprising one was um the last one of season one, which was Gale Bones. And the reason that one was surprising is because of how we met. I was on a flight from Austin to Nashville for some meetings last spring. And I was in an aisle seat on Southwest thinking, oh, this is perfect. If you're in the aisle seat, if somebody has big shoulders and they're in the middle, you'll be fine. No. And so I had that rare logical moment where I'm like, I could either be really fussy doing the shoulder game with this rather large dude next to me, or get up because it was a lightly seated flight and find another spot. And as I'm coming back up, there's a gentleman by the window and a lady in the aisle and an open seat in the middle, a little bit older than me, and she's full on into Bible study and scripture reading. And I'm like, that is not going to protect the seat in the middle of you, because I am of the faith. And so I plop down in the middle. We had the best conversation ever. Complete serendipity, completely random, stayed in touch since that moment, and she was a guest on my podcast. So the most surprising was someone that I never would have guessed that I would have as a guest. So that was the surprising one. And what was the other half of that one, Abigail? Your favorite episode.

unknown 25:46

Gosh.

SPEAKER_00 25:47

The challenge with that is all of my guests are my favorites because I love all of them. But when I think about the most interesting episode yet, it was actually with Suzanne Stone of Livestrong because of something that she said during the episode. And this is so true for this community in particular with NBC. When that diagnosis happens, when this disease hits us, we don't just get diagnosed. Our entire ecosystem of life changes. The way that you use your time changes. The amount of time that you're spending at appointments changes. The juggling of finances changes. The kind of car you drive probably changes, right? Because of neuropathy and everything else. Like all of a sudden, it's not just I'm going to the doctor for a cold and I got a prescription and I'll be better in a few weeks. It's like an ecosystem change. And I just thought that was a really good insight on what this disease means as to how it changes us. It's changed all of our family dynamics because, you know, the kids are aware and they know what's going on. It just changes everything. And so that was my kind of favorite moment in a favorite episode.

SPEAKER_02 27:00

Would you just define Live Strong for our audience?

SPEAKER_00 27:04

Yes. If I think about especially the NBC world, right? If all these organizations like the one I happen to be board chair of, Side Out Foundation, if we do our work right, there'll be more survivors. And Live Strong really is about that community and being there as a support network with resources.

SPEAKER_02 27:21

Would you also talk about the Side Out Foundation? I would love for you to talk about that.

SPEAKER_00 27:25

Yeah. So my late wife was six foot one, so I quite literally married up in every way I could have married up. My two daughters, my oldest, started to do with her teammates a game called Dig Pink. And so it was this idea that you can use a fun game like volleyball to rally dollars. And started to do those games. Side out, and volleyball is you get the ball back. Side out, the foundation is all about getting control back over your life. The founder, Rick Dunnitz's mom, Gloria, passed of metastatic breast cancer. And she was diagnosed the same day he became a high school volleyball coach. So that's how that all came together. But with the idea of, and I think there's so many amazing, I mean, we could go down a long list of amazing NBC organizations that are out there. Sideouts it's in its own little spot doing this thing as its contribution, which is okay, how can we wrap the knowledge of others around an individual patient with a personalized treatment plan that says, do this. This is your best path forward. And Gloria, Rick's mom, was patient zero and actually got more years of life because of that approach. And then, of all things, hopefully a guy that I get to have on my podcast at some point, Daniel Von Hoff, who's a huge researcher in the pancreatic cancer space, was generous enough to lend their clinical trial protocol to Side Out. So volleyball, I like metastatic breast cancer, I hate, put those together, and that's what Side Out is.

SPEAKER_01 28:49

So why don't you mention to us the great MBC organizations out there?

SPEAKER_00 28:55

Oh gosh, you guys are gonna have to help me because I'm probably gonna miss one. But I mean, of course, the MBC Alliance, I think, does an absolutely great job of bringing them all together under one umbrella. MetaVor organization, another one. My first two podcast episodes were with Kelly Shanahan and with Maureen Sticko, who's the VPN GM of Sweet Baked Goods at Entman's. And I did them on the same day. So yeah, I think about the NBC Alliance, I think about Metavor, Side Out. And you know, I mean, quite frankly, there's the big ones, they are putting slices of money away for NBC. Do we wish they'd do more, of course? But you know what? They're spending money in places that other groups don't. So hopefully that frees up more from other groups that can spend more on NBC. So I really think if we get the ecosystem right for all those dollars, but those are a few that jump to mind. Metavir, NBC Alliance. What would you guys have on your list of other groups that people should be paying attention to?

SPEAKER_01 29:50

That's a good question. This is not how it works. You don't ask us. We asked.

SPEAKER_00 29:54

Oh, darn it.

SPEAKER_02 29:58

I tried. You made an interesting comment, though, about these organizations because you talked about Metavor, which is solely focused on MBC. And then you talked about other organizations where there's a mix of focus. And you being a caregiver of somebody who died of MBC, what do you think is the right approach? Is it to blend an early stage and metastatic focus, or is it to just focus on metastatic disease?

SPEAKER_00 30:25

You know, it kind of goes back to the ethos of my podcast, which is all about the one thing. I don't think it really is an either-or. I really do think it's an and. And so I think the smaller, nimbler organizations that can focus on a particular slice of it are incredibly important. You think about the Pink Fund. I'm thinking about uh the group that Roberta does.

SPEAKER_01 30:46

Infinite Strength.

SPEAKER_00 30:48

Great group, right? I think about the Nightbird Foundation, which was born of Jane Marcheski, and I'm probably pronouncing her last name wrong, who went on stage at America's Got Talent in the midst of NBC in her late 20s and just sang about hope and blew away, Simon Cowell. So I really do think all of those more focused approaches that are born out of personal situations are incredibly important. And some that look at the whole spectrum matter because they really see it end-to-end. But then I really do think underneath that there's got to be folks that are really focused at the same time. Yeah. That's my take.

SPEAKER_01 31:23

So actually, there's a good follow-up here. You talk about the one thing, but how do you choose your topics? How do you choose who you will interview next? Who will give you that one thing, maybe?

SPEAKER_00 31:38

Yeah, it really comes down to just relationships and being open at any given moment. I think about the three questions from Leo Tolstoy. Where's the most important place that you are with the person you're with right now?

SPEAKER_01 31:50

So wait, wait, back up. Given that my background is in Russian. So what were the Leo Tolstoy questions?

SPEAKER_00 31:58

I can only remember the one that I just referenced, but there's a book called The Three Questions. It's a lovely book. It's a kid's book, but it isn't. And one of the things it talks about is who's the most important person? And the most important person is the one that you're with right now. And in this case, the most important people to me right now are you and Abigail.

SPEAKER_01 32:28

Okay, I'm going to pause here for a quick cutaway because I need to tell you about something Gary mentioned that sent me down the rabbit hole. Gary brought up Lev Tolstoy's story, The Three Questions, during our conversation. And I have to admit, I was intrigued because I couldn't remember reading it as a kid. So naturally, I went straight to Wikipedia after we finished recording. It's a fable from 1903 and is part of the collection What Men Live By and Other Tales. It's about a Tsar who is convinced that if he can answer three questions, he'll be able to handle anything life throws at him. The questions are what is the best time to begin everything? Who are the best people to listen to? And what is the most important thing to do? The Tsar asks all these educated men, and of course, they all give him different answers. So he disguises himself as a peasant to visit the hermit who only sees common folk. The hermit just keeps digging in his garden and doesn't answer. The Tsar offers to dig for him. And while he's working, a wounded man stumbles out of the woods, bleeding from a terrible stomach wound. The Tsar turns to this man all night, saves his life. The next day, the man confesses he had come to kill the Tsar because the Tsar had executed his brother and sister, his property. But the Tsar's guards wounded him. And now, after being saved by the very person he came to kill, he pledges his loyalty and asks for forgiveness. When the Tsar asks the hermit again for answers, the hermit tells him, he just lived there. The most important person is whoever you are with. And the most important thing is to help the person you are with. It's beautiful, isn't it? And it connects so deeply to what Gary is doing, showing up for people in the moment, making them the priority and helping however he can. The most important time is now. The most important person is whoever you are with. And the most important thing is to help. Well, let's get back to the conversation with Gary.

SPEAKER_00 35:01

And so I love that framing of the three questions. So season two for me, I had Emma Halter, who just graduated from University of Texas. She was a Libero libero. We debate what the right way to say that is. She now plays for a major league volleyball team called D Ignite. Her one thing at this point is volleyball. In the case of Leon from Northwestern, well, I ended up there for a second opinion for Maureen. My guest next week is going to be Janelle Keegan, which is somebody I met early on at Apple who's been through her own cancer journey. So it just has to be the story, right? And sometimes the story is the CEO of Habitat for Humanity, and those stories matter. I like to say the stories sort of pick themselves. I've got another guest that I met, Uber driving, which I do for fun on the weekends because I love people. Ruby Dice, you know, just happened to be my last ride about a month ago, and we got to talking. And she's a musician in Austin and she's going to be a podcast guest. As far as the Uber thing, I love people. And so when I travel on business, I take Ubers. Three Christmases ago, I got a B in the bonnet to say, I wonder what it would be like to drive. And so I started to drive on Friday and Saturday nights, and I've had some amazing rides. Actually, Uber featured me on their Instagram about the breast cancer awareness month, the start of October. I had two gals in my car, I'm telling my story to, and they're like, Oh, we're oncology nurses. I'm like, Oh, really? And I said, Where? Texas Oncology. Oh, really? I said my wife was treated by Karsten Camp. They're like, You're the donut guy, right? They knew my story. So the Uber reel on Instagram is me. I went on Maureen's birthday because it was close. It was in April. And I have a picture of the two of them and Maureen's oncologist and donuts.

SPEAKER_01 36:39

Abigail and I like to do series of episodes in more extended type of format. So this sounds like a good series for you. Conversations with my Uber clients.

SPEAKER_00 36:53

It's really surreal what happens when you hit the accept button. But I like your approach with series. So you go, okay, for the next three, four, whatever, it's going to be on this thematic, and then this stretch will be on this thematic. It's whatever's best for you. I don't think there's any one right way.

SPEAKER_01 37:08

Oh, that that is absolutely true. But Abigail, you and I will have to become Uber drivers to look for our guests, right?

SPEAKER_02 37:18

Well, it is interesting that we talk a lot about how who we are influences how we approach MBC. And you can't really divorce the two because I, as a lawyer, encounter and deal with things in a very different way than somebody with Victoria's background. And I suppose the same thing is true for podcasting, that those of us who are more, what is it, left brain, are going to approach it like maybe a little bit more logically sequentially. But the intuition of how does this episode fit with this next episode, I think that's equally as valuable sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 37:57

Yeah. Maureen and I were quite the pair. She was an architect, she designed things, there was structure. And then she had her crazy husband that wouldn't flip off with his entrepreneurial ideas, and that balanced.

SPEAKER_02 38:07

But you need both of those things, right? My husband and I talk about you need the steady foundation and you need the person who's like, let's go have fun.

SPEAKER_00 38:16

Yeah, exactly. It's a great blend.

SPEAKER_02 38:18

So you're getting to the point of the next generation in your family as your children get married and grow up and all of that. So, how is empty nesting? How is the perspective from where you sit as a single parent?

SPEAKER_00 38:37

Yeah, that's another fun question to dwell on. On the one hand, of course, we love our kids. And do you miss the hubbub? Do you miss having the extra heartbeat around? Yeah. But at the same time, when I watch them becoming who they're meant to be, great joy. And in order for them to become who they need to be, they need to separate. It's just part of how it works. And especially when I think about my son and his wife, the whole notion of cleaving and leaving. That's an important part of they are now their family. I will always love my son, but he has his own responsibilities now as perhaps a father one day, God willing. If I think about empty nesting from an honest perspective, podcasting, going on a road trip, some of this other crazy stuff that I'm doing wouldn't be possible if I didn't have the time. And I've thought a lot about relationships. I get asked that question a lot. People want to set you up all the time. Yes. It's all well-meaning. But what I realized is getting the kids up and into college was job one. And so to disrupt that with a relationship in the midst of that grieving phase would not have been appropriate. And it wouldn't have been appropriate for me either. It's not like I was just doing it for them. I mean, it was doing it for me too. And then same thing through college and into life. It's like the timing just wasn't right. But what I'm realizing with the empty nesting is I am actually for the first time getting to build a relationship with myself. I would do it all again. But it's been 23 years since I watched my wife on the phone hearing the words you have cancer. And there is a shadow that puts on me. Um and I'm an empath, so I always care about everybody else first. It's just what I do. But I'm realizing like, dang it, I'm starting to find out who Gary is again. And I don't think he sucks too bad. So far, so good.

SPEAKER_02 40:28

I love that for you in this new chapter of your life, that you're the center and that you're the priority. Seems about time.

SPEAKER_00 40:37

Yeah. In a men's group that I was in a number of years ago, we called it being self-ful, not self-fish, but self-ful. And I think that is really true of all of when I say us in the MBC community, I realize when I say us, I am a degree of separation away from us. I was a caregiver, but MBC affected me not the same way it does for you guys physically. I mean, no comparison. But we need to be selfful because what you guys are going through sucks. And until my dying breath and my empty nesting at this point, I want this to suck less. I see who you are as humans, I see how you engage with others, and the world needs you here as long as possible. And so for as long as I'm here, that's what's going to motivate me.

SPEAKER_01 41:30

Thank you. And may I just say something? I wish Maureen could see you now. It's such an amazing love story, and it's such a testament to your relationship that 12 years later, you're still with us. You have not moved on. We are part of you, part of your life, and part of the mission that you're on. And yes, it's wonderful that this is becoming your time. But the fact that you're sharing it with us is incredible, actually.

SPEAKER_00 42:02

She made me who I am. I understand love because I got to love her. And when I think about what Team Patter Donut's becoming, it's a tradition that I've kept in her memory. And I think what excites me the most about the Love Crusade, as I call it now, between the podcast and the road trip is that love can start to spread out. For me, it's a powdered donut as my symbol for love. Like I have a girl, she takes her love language, which is to organize things, and it's incredibly important. That's what I'm excited about the most, is getting back out there to just meet people because they give me energy.

SPEAKER_01 42:36

So, do you ever think about sustainability? What happens after you decide that you don't want to do this anymore? Are you going to just close the shop? Or how are you gonna continue?

SPEAKER_00 42:48

Beautiful questions. And I've actually given this some thoughts. You teased out earlier that, yeah, the road trip when I chat GPT and I figured out that somewhere between June of 27 to about March or April of 29, then there'll be a book that comes from all various stories, and there's some other stuff sprinkled along the way, sprinkling love. So, like I sprinkle the dust of the powdered donut, just like I sprinkled the wine's ashes. But then I have a dream to be mobile for a while, but then to have a retreat center somewhere outside of Fredericksburg where part of the year can be dedicated to folks in the NBC community and others that just need a place to get away and to have rest. And so I will close up shop when I take my last breath. Until then, I'm going to pour love into everything I do because we have time and I want others to have time, and I'm privileged to have some time. So let's make that true for everybody.

SPEAKER_01 43:42

You always look for this one quote that you want to end the episode with. When I do an episode, I always think of that. But in this particular instance, I have like 25 quotes already. So I'm gonna have a very, very hard time deciding how to end this episode. Well, heck of a lot of mic drop moments here.

SPEAKER_02 44:04

That's right. A lot, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 44:06

I come from a long line of talkers. I wish we had a mute button from my mom. Although my sister and I love the joke, like we would love to be able to call our mom one more time and have her annoy us. What we wouldn't do for that moment.

SPEAKER_01 44:17

So glad you said that because both Abigail and I, well, Abigail is so young, so it's not surprising, but both Abigail and I still have our parents with us. And this was such a poignant thing you said.

SPEAKER_00 44:31

Yeah, I'm realizing that. Hopefully I haven't annoyed my own children too much. They're gonna pick my nursing home one day, so I gotta be nice to them.

SPEAKER_01 44:38

That's what we all say, don't we? When I was first diagnosed in 2014 with metastatic cancer, I didn't think I needed to worry about the future and the nursing home. And so that was one silver lining about having metastatic breast cancer. But now, 12 years later, I'm beginning to think about that.

SPEAKER_00 44:57

We need more outliers, more outliers to where it's not outlying anymore.

SPEAKER_01 45:01

Well, Abigail, shall we start wrapping up? I'm really all out of questions. So Me too. A question that we always ask, and it's important, I think. Somebody who wants to get into this space, what advice would you give them?

SPEAKER_00 45:18

I think what I've learned is if you're launching a podcast to have a podcast, don't do it. If instead you have something that you want to share with the world, like the stories that you're collecting from stage four, which are important stories, or in my case, one story, one moment, one donut at a time. Yeah, if that's your motivation and podcasting is the best vehicle by which to share that with the world, then you're not really launching a podcast. You're taking something that you love to do and using podcasts as the mechanism by which to share it with people that would like to hear it.

SPEAKER_01 45:58

Well, thank you so much for being with us and good luck with so many ideas and so many projects.

SPEAKER_00 46:07

Have us on your podcast. Oh, 100%. I mean, again, there's lots of stories and there's lots of time. If I could just close and do this as directly as possible, looking at a camera to your audience, ladies and men that are dealing with stage four, you are loved very deeply by people that you may never meet. I am one of them. Hang in there. I saw firsthand how damn difficult this is, but your memory will never be extinguished, and we will all continue to love you as much as we can.

SPEAKER_01 46:38

Well, thank you. This was the mic drop moment, and I don't need to think about how I will end this episode. Thank you. Thank you very much for being with us and for this easy way for me to end the episode. Please come back. Yeah. Oh, this is great. Well, I told you at the beginning I would have trouble choosing just one quote to end with, and I wasn't kidding. Gary gave us a lot of mic drop moments. But if I had to pick one, it would be this. We don't have to change everything. We just have to change our one thing. Here's my question for you What's your one thing? What's the thing you can do? Maybe the thing only you can do to make a difference in your corner of the world. Gary is doing it with powdered donuts and a podcast. Abigail and I are doing it right here at this virtual round table. And you? You get to figure out what yours is. We'd love to hear from you. What's your one thing? Share it with us on social media. Tag us and let us know what resonated with you from this conversation. And if this episode moved you, please share it with someone who needs to hear it. In general, I don't like the word journey and try to avoid it at all costs. But in this case, it's appropriate. If you want to follow Gary's journey, check out Team Powder Donut Podcast. Wherever you listen, we'll include links to Gary's podcast, his social media, and other resources we mentioned in today's episode in the show notes. So be sure to check those out. And keep an eye out for his Love Crusade Road Trip starting next year. Because something tells me there are going to be a lot more stories worth hearing. Thank you so much to Gary Thompson for joining us today and for reminding us that love, whether it's in the form of a powdered donut, a podcast, or just showing up is always enough. The podcaster's roundtable was produced and hosted by Abigail Johnston and me, Victoria Goldberg. Until next time, go change that one thing.