Mastering the Outfield: Insights from Andre Butler

Andre Butler: @Graveyardmentality

In this episode, Matthew de la Rosa sits down with Andre Butler, an expert in outfield training and player development. They discuss Andre's journey from being an outfielder to coaching at various levels, including his current work with Team USA and his business, Graveyard Mentality. 

The conversation delves into the importance of recruiting, athleticism, and the technical aspects of outfield training, as well as Andre's collaboration with Major League Baseball teams. He shares insights on assessing high school players and the significance of building trust in coaching relationships. In this conversation, Andre shares insights on overcoming the challenges faced by outfielders during the offseason, particularly in colder climates. He discusses creative training techniques that can be implemented indoors and emphasizes the importance of mental preparation and game readiness. 

Additionally, he provides guidance on navigating the USA Baseball pathway for young players and offers valuable advice for both players and their parents on how to approach the game with a balanced mindset.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

What's going on, y'all? Welcome to another episode of NJ Healthy Heat the podcast. As always, I'm your host, Matthew Delarosta, and today I am joined with Andre Butler. This is a unique guest. You guys know me as somebody who does infield and pitching. Obviously, haven't been a two-way player, haven't played the infield, and got drafted to play professional baseball as a pitcher. I can speak that. However, Andre's specialty is in the outfield, and I'm super excited to talk to him about that and get the ins and outs of what he's doing. He's been a collegiate player himself. He's been a college coach at a couple of different places, Penn State being one of them. And now he works with Team USA or currently works with Team USA. He also runs his own business graveyard training or graveyard mentality in which he travels around the country working with some of the best outfield players in the country. So super excited if you're a parent or a player who is interested in outfield work, and also we're going to talk about some recruiting, some of the things that he did, you know, while he was a coach. This is going to be a great episode for you guys. So tune in, get your paper ready, and let's go. So, Andre, my man, hey, we are just meeting, right? Like we just met five minutes ago. So our introduction is just like the people are here. So give it to me, man. Like, what's the story? How did you get here today? What how what where are you coming from?

SPEAKER_00 1:23

Yeah, appreciate you having me, Matt. And um, you know, pretty much my story is uh was an outfielder um and realized that no one paid too much attention to what we did from the developmental side. It was, you know, hit fungos to the outfielders at a far distance, and and that was kind of it. Um I grew up in Philadelphia, so I know what it's like to be in the Northeast in the wintertime and not having um high ceilings or the ability to get outside. Um and and I get it. Like, but we still can get work in. And just like you mentioned with infielders, we can get the same amount of work in as an outfielder with the right drills, with the right mechanics. You just have to be creative. Uh, and that's what I've just tried to figure out over the past uh 13 now, I guess going on 14 years. Uh, I've moved everything towards towards Georgia and the Atlanta area. Um technically we train about 10 minutes from Lake Point. Um, so we're able to get a lot of players who come in to train with us. And um it's nice, it's it's been uh it's been a great, a great journey. And um I I feel like we're just just getting going. I'm excited to see where we where we go.

SPEAKER_01 2:27

Nice, man. So a lot of people who come down to the uh what PBR uh pre game stuff. Yeah, PBR, um, they're just coming and visiting you in in the time that they hop off from their games.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

Yeah, pretty much. So a lot of those events they they they play one game a day, and then the rest of the day, you go fish, you go explore the area, you go to all the different shops. And so with being 10 minutes away from uh Lake Point and then about 25 minutes away from East Cobb, we're we're kind of in a perfect location where you know kids can come in and get training in, outfield training while they're here in town throughout this the summer and the fall. Now you got your own facility down there or what? So no, we're we're blessed because we're outfielders. So outfielders, we we want high, we want the high sky. Yeah um so we'll train um at various fields in the area. Uh we also, especially in the offseason, we train some of the top outfielders in the country um at a local beach. Uh yeah, Atlanta does Atlanta does have beaches. Um Metro Atlanta, it's more of a hidden gym. I can't tell you where it is, or everybody's gonna be there.

SPEAKER_02 3:31

Let's go.

SPEAKER_00 3:32

But it's it's it just created some ability to have some kind of unique training, work on footwork, work on you know the resistance with the state with the sand. You know, I have a big emphasis on move your feet, you know, and move your feet as fast as you can, uh, keep your head still. And what better way to you know implement that challenge than you know adding some sand, make players run, you know, do some short work and go about that way. So that was last year was the first year we did that. So that would kind of be our thing every you know, October, November, December, and then we send them off back to their programs.

SPEAKER_01 4:05

Nice, man. And so you how did you get into just in or uh outfield only and and no hitting? Like, do you do hitting as well, or is it just straight?

SPEAKER_00 4:13

Yeah, we do one hitting camp. That one hitting camp uh is at the USA baseball complex in Kerry, North Carolina. We do that in December. It's usually around the third week of December, depending on where Christmas falls. Um, but I wanted to say I want to do something that nobody else does. You know, I wanted to do something that no everybody just kind of flocked towards. Well, there's no outfield, the outfielders don't matter almost, right? You gotta hit pretty much see hey outfielders when the infielders are doing their you know positional stuff. If we're doing defensive situations for infielders and pitchers, um, outfielders go run bases or outfielders go hit, or outfielders go get extra time bunning. But then, like I just put something up on, you know, we had three plays over the weekend, and there's probably much more, I just didn't catch them, that were like game-changing plays. You had the kid in uh for Cincinnati, he made an unbelievable catch. He brought up field the one, he was in right field.

SPEAKER_01 5:09

Okay, I thought I think I saw one on your Instagram dude.

SPEAKER_00 5:12

Dude was in the middle of the street. So the same thing. So we had that one, we had one at Georgia, he won the game, right? He won a game for him, and then we saw Julio Rodriguez in the the World Baseball Classic make a great play. Like three robbing.

SPEAKER_01 5:34

Dude's unreal. But no, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 5:35

Hell yeah. Yeah, and everybody says like those plays are great, but but most guys can't make that play, right? Most guys can't. Um, and especially looking at like the high school player, you know, guys trying to get to college, they're trying to find an edge. And like, yeah, there's certain measurables and metrics that you you have to kind of fit the model for. But if you're going against, if there's two guys, y'all both got the same metrics, but this guy's a dog, and he can go put on for his team and have ice in his veins and catch a ball and bring it back in at the track, he's going to get the offer, you know, and that's that's just my expertise from when I was recruiting, and a lot of these players just don't understand that yet. So I try to, you know, give them that that information.

SPEAKER_01 6:20

Yeah, man. Um, so kind of getting into your recruiting background and your uh your your college uh coaching, let's let's kind of start there. What what what was your journey? How did that look like and and how was that for you?

SPEAKER_00 6:34

Yeah, so I I went to Eastern University um and King of Prussia area, uh right outside of Philly to play my college ball. And then following that, I had an opportunity to start coaching.

SPEAKER_01 6:43

Um you get a lot of looks out of out of high school yourself, or no? Not really?

SPEAKER_00 6:47

Not many, not many to be honest. I think that kind of drives my passion for still continuing to get better as a coach, is I'm I'm always trying to make up for lost time, even you know, 15, 14 years later. Yeah. Um, but went to Eastern, started coaching. I was finishing my undergrad. I was coaching at Swarthmore College. Um, so I was uh 22, coaching 21, 22 year olds. Love it. Um three months there, we didn't even play a game. I got a job at uh University of Penn um in the Ivy League. So I was like, all right, this is how coaching goes, right? Like you kind of fast track. Um so I was there for two years, and then I said I wanted recruiting experience. I was my position there was a volunteer assistant back when they had that position. I said I wanted recruiting experience, so I was fortunate to get a job at DeSales University uh under Tim Diamond, who's now retired. Um, but it was great. That's people always ask me, like, what was my favorite job? And I think they all have great things about them, but I feel like the sales was the one that really got me to where I need to go. I was only there for one season, 11 months to be specific. Uh they gave me everything I needed to be great. I had like the recruiting car was available for all the athletic uh programs. I feel like I used it the most.

unknown 8:04

Right?

SPEAKER_00 8:04

Like it was a white impala, and I had that thing, and people probably thought they probably thought that it was mine. I'm like, nah. It's I just always am on the road. So that led me to get to uh Penn State. Uh so I was at Penn State for four years, uh two years as a volunteer, and then I got promoted for the next two years. Um, and then after that, I was like, man, not that I felt like I'd done everything, but I was like, you know, I've chased this whole journey. Well, what's next? And obviously, you know, I'm a third base coach. I'm 26 years old at the time. I'm third base coach, um, outfield coach, working with the hitters, recruiting, like I'm kind of doing it all. Yeah. And I took a step back and said, I have a choice. Am I going to either keep going in this route, try to become a head coach or whatever the case may be, or is there something else for me? And at that time, uh, graveyard mentality was had started at Penn State. Like I spoke at the ABCA coaches clinic, I was people loved it. I said, all right, cool. So I took a leap of faith, you know, I stepped away from the college coaching side of things, um, and then started doing graveyard mentality full time, and here we are about seven, yeah, seven years later.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

Let's go. So you're at Penn State, and what you just you're thinking, like, hey, I can just start my own business, or I can just make a whole business teaching outfield.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

It really, it really was like, well, it was part of it was family ties and tied in with it too. My wife and I, we hadn't really ever like lived together full time.

SPEAKER_03 9:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 9:34

So she was moving back towards the Philly area. Penn State's three hours away, as y'all know. Um, she was moving back towards Philly, and I'm like, well, this ain't gonna work for long. We just got married. I'm like, so let's move back towards Philly. She was going to school there. We set up shop. I said, I'll find a job, I'll do whatever. And um I was like, light bulb, I'll just start training players.

SPEAKER_03 9:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:55

And I was doing, I was doing hitting, I was doing everything. And then I found like this niche where people were like, hey, we want to do outfield training and let's just get graveyard off. So we started started the the uh the social media and all that. And then what really turned I mean, it was always a business when I was in Pennsylvania, but I started to say, I can't do it the way I want to do it here because we're like, I'm not gonna get a kid from Georgia to come see me in PA. Like I knew for outfield training. I knew I wasn't getting that to that, that wasn't gonna happen.

SPEAKER_03 10:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:31

Um, outfield training is already hard enough to promote, let alone no offense to Pennsylvania. Promoted to five in a cold, in a cold area. So I said, all right, let's let's move. So three and a half years ago, we moved uh here to Atlanta Metro, and now we feel like I can like I can drive to Florida, Alabama, Tennessee, North Carolina. Now I'm more in a hub. Um, and then obviously those players coming in to see me as well.

SPEAKER_01 10:59

Hey, shout out to your wife for doing that, man. That's a that's a big leap. Just be like, hey, I'm gonna start a business in a very small niche, and yeah, we need to move to Atlanta. And oh, by the way, it's not really successful yet, but trust me, people are gonna like what I got to offer. So that's that's dope, man. I've uh I really respect that.

SPEAKER_00 11:16

Yeah, shout out to your wife. Three kids, three kids later, she's still trusting.

SPEAKER_01 11:19

Three kids, too, dang. Yeah, that's got a good family man. Love it. So, what what was it like um on the recruiting end of things? How did that go for you? So let's talk about recruiting outfielders. You know, what like I'm sure you're using a ton of what you use to recruit kids to now help those high school kids kind of, hey, this is what coaches are looking for. You've sat in enough camps, you've sat in enough um uh prospect showcases, things like that. So what is it that that colleges are are pinpointing or kind of eyeballing when they're grading out a a high school prospect right now?

SPEAKER_00 11:57

Yeah, I think the the thing that a lot of players don't realize is yes, and obviously I'm here like I'm I love outfield training. Like you won't find anybody else that doesn't love it, but I also am like I I keep it real where you want to stay in the infield as long as you can, you know. Um, so they do want guys that play up the middle. They do want an athletic catcher is a real thing in our game now, right? Where you see where Georgia Tech's catcher, like he can play eight positions as as he did. Um he can play the outfield at the next level. I've told him that. Like um, so it it's it's still recruiting up the middle, it's still being able to play as many positions as you can because when you get on campus, that part hasn't changed. When you get on campus, the best guys that hit are not gonna sit. And if they do sit, that means you got a legit offensive team, uh, which you're seeing in in college baseball. But athleticism, um, the the arm, if you talk outfield specifically with me, like from a recruiting standpoint, I want to find a guy that can hit. If you can hit and you can run and you've got a baseball IQ, I'll sacrifice a little bit if your arm's not great as an outfielder. Right? Shortstop, yeah, you gotta be able to throw the ball.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

You gotta be on Hey, real quick, real quick, you're about to drop some knowledge, and I really want to get this. Yeah, your face is like half in, half out. Can you just turn the phone just a little bit so that you're like centered the other way, the other way, the other way. Or you gotta slide in the middle of the of the camera, I think to your left.

SPEAKER_00 13:26

I gotta go this way.

SPEAKER_01 13:27

Right there, yeah. All right, perfect.

SPEAKER_00 13:28

Is that good?

SPEAKER_01 13:29

Yes, sir. Because when I put this on the internet, I need people to see your face, bro. All right, start it over, start it over. So when you're recruiting outfielders from the top.

SPEAKER_00 13:36

Yeah, so when I'm recruiting outfielders, like I'm thinking about athleticism. You know what I mean? I need a guy that can, if you can hit, you you gotta be able to hit. If you can't hit, I'm sorry. Like if even if you're a guy that can't hit for power, that's fine, but you better be able to butt, better get on base, be able to do something when you're on the bases. But you gotta be able to run. Now we're seeing runners at 6'4, 6'5. I don't even know if I'm trusting all these times, but like before it used to be like, hey, if you were at a seven, you were in the ballpark. Right? And now these guys are like six fives. So you gotta be able to run, you gotta be able to hit, you gotta be able to have a high baseball IQ. You have to be able to know where to ball where to throw the ball before the ball is even hit. And then the thing that I'm gonna sacrifice the last piece is is the arm. Yes, I want a guy that can go and throw a guy out at any point in the game, but if you don't have a great arm, we can still make do with you. We can still find a place for you because if you look in the MLB as far as like who's leading for outfield assists, like that top guy, most high school guys don't know how many guys, how many guys outfielders are throwing out in Major League Baseball in a year. And usually that high number, that leaderboard number is around like 16. Like 16 guys you're throwing out. I think Nolan Jones had it when he was with the Rockies. Uh he had like 19 a couple years ago, and he played like 140 games, and that was the leader. So to me, if you don't have a great arm, especially you talk about in college, we can always have that defensive position, defensive outfielder with a better arm that can come in and get the job done, maybe in the bottom of the knife, run on second base, type thing like that. So there's a spot, there's a spot for everybody um in the outfield, no doubt about it.

SPEAKER_01 15:20

Yeah, no, that's interesting. Yeah, I wouldn't have known, I guess, how to rank. I know that when you're gonna play the outfield, especially in the corners, like you got to be able to bang it, right? Just like in the corner of the corner of the infield. Like we're looking for dudes who can drive the ball into the gaps and things like that. So I guess where overall does the defensive attribute and and tool kind of rank in in your opinion when when grading out an outfielder? Like what is it, is it right after I guess that's an open-ended question for you. Yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 15:54

Yeah, no, I mean, the first thing I do, Lana, this when I was coaching as far as recruiting guys, I'm gonna watch you hit. I'm not I'm not looking at your defense.

SPEAKER_01 16:03

But you can teach him that, right? Like, because you you as graveyard mentality, you can just bring a dude in and be like, yo, I'll teach you how to play the outfield.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

Yeah, I'm not I I need to see you hit because you look at most hitters, like most hitters have some level of athletic of athleticism where you can you can find a place on the field for them. Left, I mean, they gotta be really bad as an outfielder to be able to not be able to make a club. But the also the thing too is that's where the mentality piece comes in. I don't have a problem telling a kid, hey, you're good enough as a hitter, but you suck as an outfielder, and you will not get drafted or not make this team or not do whatever simply because you can't play this position well. Um I have about four kids right now who are like legit that I work with, and they're legit hitters, like some of the best in the high school uh game, but their outfield play is not good. Like not good. I'm gonna say their names. Um bombs out there. That's that's why we work. That's why we work, you know what I mean? That's why we work, and and they realize it too. Like it's always cool to see the kid hit me up like yo, wait, we need we need some work. Yeah, or or I love like what I typically get is the sh is there's the kids that were out to say it so Eli Pitts uh with the Cincinnati Reds, he's out of Atlanta. Um he was a South Carolina commit. When I moved to Georgia three and a half years ago, uh him and his dad reached out and said, Hey, we're trying to transition from shortstop to outfield. Um, they they knew that his stock was going to be higher with his speed and what he can do. And that kid ended up being a six-round pick or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 17:51

Dang. Yeah. Yeah, man. There's so many nuances to every position of this game, man. Like, there's just so many different things. Shout out my boy Justin Dean out there playing left field for the uh Dodgers, putting his hands up, knowing stuff like that. Like, that's just you know, knowing the game, having a high IQ, things like that in the World Series. But, you know, there's certain players who who don't know those, you know, intricacies of that position. Um, and and again, it is it is very technical. How technical do you guys get out there in the outfield? I've I personally have never really played the outfield, so like I'm coming at it from somebody who's only played the infield. Um, I can understand what goes on, right? Catching a fly ball, uh, but I'm not somebody who's tracking fly balls, running, you know, 40 yards sometimes to get a ball. So I I don't know what that training looks like.

SPEAKER_00 18:41

It's um it's starting to get more technical, which is which is okay, right? There's a lot of data. Um it's it depends on if you have the right information, if you have the right analytics. Now, here's the thing if you're a high school program, you're not gonna be able to probably touch on this because you don't have enough time with your players. And I don't mean like you and I high school, like training high school kids, I mean like a high school coach, a high school teacher.

SPEAKER_03 19:05

No, no, I got to go.

SPEAKER_00 19:05

Um same thing college, like you know, the guys, the the the big guys in the SEC, they have it all. But we also know the name of their game is they gotta be able to hit. And they're gonna spend a lot of time focusing on hitting. Um, so yeah, those small details might not be worked on in the SEC, right? When you get to that next level, Major League Baseball, you know, minor leagues, um, there's a lot of time. There's a ton of time you're on the field every day. And then almost like what we're talking about, what we do is if we wanted to, we could be with our players, you know, as much as we can. There's not really any restrictions. Um, we can create that space. But when when you're seeing stuff in there with like outs above average and trying to determine like who is a legit best outfielder, because even still now, when we watch a game, we're not seeing the route. Like when that ball is hit, we don't see the route. We see the play and we see that that diving catch. We don't see how far he went, we don't see the bad read.

SPEAKER_01 19:59

Until AWS breaks it down for us afterwards.

SPEAKER_00 20:02

There you go, exactly, right? So we see that stuff, and that stuff's becoming more accessible to us. So I think that it's okay to get a little bit technical if if we have the right tools, which we're certainly starting to.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

Yeah, and I saw uh recently you you were invited out to the uh Cubs spring training.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

Yeah, so you mentioned uh you mentioned Dean, who was with the Dodgers, so he's actually with the Cubs now. Oh, bro, that's right. Let's go, dude.

SPEAKER_01 20:26

I played I played uh college baseball with Justin Dean, man. He hit Leadoff.

SPEAKER_00 20:29

Leadoff was fun. Great dude. Yeah, um, you knew about a dude who flies, bro.

SPEAKER_01 20:35

Reports have it. I didn't see it. I this is just what I've been told. Reports had it, they had this man at a 6'2.

SPEAKER_00 20:41

Like I wouldn't be surprised. So he talks fast, and it's because he runs fast.

SPEAKER_01 20:47

Bro, boy Peter gets it down.

SPEAKER_00 20:50

Every everything he dug when you see him, you're like, Yeah, I could I can see how you're fast before you you even move. You know what I mean? Like great routes in the outfield. Um, but yeah, so as we're getting into you know, this whole journey with graveyard mentality, starting to connect with more major league baseball teams. Um and the Cubs were the first team, they're like, Yeah, like once you come out and like go to spring training, and you know, once you got once you to have access to what we do, and we want to have access to what you do, and we kind of fill each other out and let you work with players, and and it was great. Uh, was out there for about a week. Um, was able to see a ton of what we of what they did, um, and then kind of implement some of the mentality piece. Because what I always tell players are is graveyard mentality is you have to have mentality. Obviously, it stands for where hits are laid to rest. You have to have the mentality, you have to have the drills, the mechanics. But you can't just be running out there having just mechanics, that ain't gonna do it. Right? It's yeah, and you can't go out there with just a mentality without knowing you know the proper technique. Of things. So I think it was cool for me to go in and kind of be around some of those guys and implement the mentality piece because that part for me honestly is easy. Yeah. You know. But when you're playing in front of a lot of people, when you're trying to make a team, sometimes mentality for them is a little bit tough. You know, at the end of the day, they're all humans. And some of them are, you know, 18, 19 years old, especially in the minor league side. So yeah, it was it was a cool thing. And um it definitely won't be the last team uh that we we do something with for sure.

SPEAKER_01 22:33

Let's go, dude. That's so awesome, man. What so what what did you have? Uh what were you doing with those guys out there? Were you doing a lot of observing or were you running them through drills? And if so, kind of talk through through what you were getting ready for.

SPEAKER_00 22:44

A little a little bit of both. Um a little bit of both. I mean, day one, I was in the big league dugout, and uh we we had uh the the Angels, we're playing a minor league game against the Angels. So uh they were kind of all on their own for day one as far as like positioning, you know, kind of letting guys feel things out for themselves. Uh so just talking about the small details of what I'm seeing. Like, hey man, like what's your prep step like, or your prep step could have been better there, or why aren't you doing the prep step at all? Um, and then for me, implementing some of the short work stuff that I do. Uh, some of the stuff that I do, they do as well. They're already doing it. Um, but I'm a big believer on short work, you know, because at that level, there are, you know, they they don't, you just can't run around with your head cut off because there are certain days that are this day is a hard day, this is the easy day, is a medium day, right? There's a light day. So you have to find a way as a coach, and that's what I always do anyway, but it's cool to see how they track it. Um, to say, hey, how can we still get in quality reps? I'll still understand that today is a light day.

SPEAKER_03 23:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:49

Most high school guys that come to me don't understand that. Um, and if they if I did tell them today's a light day, they would go too light, right? So you have to find a way, even as a professional, to be like, yo, today's a light day, but I'm still getting work in. Yeah. You know, like it's not an off day. It just means we're not running, you know, a thousand yards, go get a ball because we got game the next day. And trying to prepare to train like a professional before you get to that level. I think that is the key. So while I was out there, I got a chance to see a lot about how they go about that. Um, again, more from uh uh analytics side of it, um, which I think you can at least have some feel of it, you know, with our side and some of the guys that we train.

SPEAKER_01 24:32

And so what is what is short work?

SPEAKER_00 24:34

Walk the water. Yeah, so uh we all know like Ron Washington, you see his short work fungo drill. Uh for me, it's not that short, it's probably like uh 30 feet, right? Maybe 40 feet.

SPEAKER_01 24:47

I see you out for the fungal, bro. You're yeah, I'm good with the fungo, but hit line drives like that at a short distance is an unreal skill, man. That's uh hey, hats off to you, man. That's that's dope.

SPEAKER_00 24:59

That one's at about 90 feet. Um, so there's two different variations of the short word. That's about 90 feet. Um then I'll bring him in a little bit. Um, it's one of those where you've been hitting fungos for like 14 years. Um, I think the first person I told us, I said to uh uh to Dexter McLean, I trained with him. I said, man, I've been hitting fungals longer than you've been alive. Um and he got me beat by a year. I think he's like 16 or something. But um, you know, it's it's just one of those things I've got to create a feel for it. Um, and you know, then I taught myself how to hit lefty. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01 25:32

You gotta get the slices. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 25:34

So you think about it, you think like my top hand's not gonna be a strong one on left side, and on sometimes it is, sometimes it's not. But now an outfielder can read that. You know, now he can say, all right, well, I see coach pulled his shoulder off this way, you know, his bat's dragging through the zone. Okay, here goes some slice. Um, I've just tried to create different ways that allow an outfielder to be successful. Now, here's the thing typically I might not have another guy there when I'm training, so I'll hit it off the T. But you know, like with the Cubs and a lot of other big league teams do this as well. Like they're gonna do uh front toss or soft toss, I should say.

SPEAKER_03 26:07

Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_00 26:08

They'll soft toss it, they can get a real swing, real momentum, real ball in motion, and be able to pick that up. Most high school guys are only getting reads in the outfield during batting crisis. And we don't even know if they're taking that serious or not. Yeah. So think about where like and if think about it, an infielder during BP, you're closer towards the coach, right? You're closer towards the dugout. So you're gonna take it serious.

SPEAKER_03 26:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:34

But an outfielder, you're always out there. You're with the pitcher shagging. You know, that's so that's why the standard is what it is, and and why I'm so hard on these guys.

SPEAKER_01 26:42

Yeah, and pitchers, hey, if you're listening to this and you're in the outfield and you're taking away some face, get out the way. Get out the way, bro. Get in the gaps, get up against the fence, get along the lines, get on a bucket, let the outfielders get their work in. Because you need them to get their work in. Because when it's you know, bottom of the seventh and you're on the mound and you just gave up a shot, you know, wish that that dude had some some reads off of the bat a little bit better than uh what they got. So that's awesome, man. So so when you let's let's talk about a high school kid. When you start working with a high school kid, you know, what are what are the adjustments that you're kind of looking at when he comes in to evaluate what he needs improvement on? And then how do you kind of move forward with that?

SPEAKER_00 27:25

Yeah. Um, so I'm big on like time management. So like I don't want to just coach things that he already knows. I want to, you know, usually before I'll tell the kid or the parent, like, yo, tell me what he sucks at. Yeah. And I use words like that, what does he suck at? What is he like when you're sitting there watching your son play? Like, what are you like, yo, he is terrible at this? And it so if obviously I'll be able to get information from that. If I if I don't get a good feel of it and they're not giving me much, I'll just start hitting them some fungos at like that 90 feet distance, maybe 100 feet, just start hitting them some stuff and then see how he reacts. Not really anything to make him like chase too too far. Maybe the ball that's like six steps over his head, six steps in. What ball doesn't he die for? What ball does he pull up for? Because now I'm starting to look like, oh, he don't have graveyard mentality, he's scared, he don't have this, like kind of check those boxes, that'll last for like two minutes. Alright, let's let's bring it in. We got some work to do. Right? I'll mix in a ground ball, see how he feels that, and then from there I can start. All right, let's structure this in. Um you know, it usually takes me about two minutes to figure out like, all right, is a guy just getting loose or he just don't know. Right? Um, and then we can and then my main goal, like most of my sessions are an hour long, my one-on-ones are an hour, I'll just go over time because we be we be having fun. Yeah, um but my goal is to be like really get this kid to trust me within like the first six minutes. You know what I mean? If I fail, okay, first 10 minutes. Right? We ain't gonna go past 10 minutes, you don't trust me. Especially a new kid. Like, that's why new sessions they always go over because I gotta build that time in for trust. Um, and then I'll I verbally tell him, like, hey, like, that's why you're here. I'll I'll yell out things. That's why you're here.

SPEAKER_03 29:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:15

And then once I have that trust, now I can start talking a little bit of smack. If it's a kid that can handle it, right? If it's a kid that likes to like, you know, have that friendly competition. Once I get that trust, now I'm like, oh my bad, you can't get that ball. I forgot. You're not that good yet.

SPEAKER_01 29:31

Yeah, or you ain't that guy.

SPEAKER_00 29:33

Yeah, or or you told me you wanted to be top ranked in the state. Oh, my bad. So that ball's not for you. You know, some things like that, but I can't do that until I got that trust.

SPEAKER_01 29:44

Yeah. Do you do a lot of one-on-one, or is it do you do it? Because I see a lot of your like group training. Like, how do you how do you kind of approach that?

SPEAKER_00 29:53

It's a little bit both. So we do one-on-ones, I do small groups, where it's like a max of eight, and then we do our our like outfield training camp where like that can run up to like we go to Maryland. We go to Maryland, they they 70 outfielders indoors. 70 outfielders, indoor field house, turf. Like, we've been there for the past three years. So it's been a good, you know, good culture that the Maryland kids have created, but um anywhere from like 25 to 60 or 70 kids for our training camps.

SPEAKER_01 30:25

Now you talk about indoors and you talk about being up from PA, and uh, I was born in Texas, so and lived in Texas and grew up in Texas and played ball in North Carolina and Texas. So I'm just now getting acclimated to the New Jersey lifestyle, and I 100% see why we down south are much better at baseball because it is March and I'm still looking at a little bit of snow. It's 30 degrees, it's raining outside, you can't get outside. The high schools are taking it down to Florida right now to play baseball. So how like how does an end or how does an outfielder even stand a chance of getting better in in the offseason when you're just stuck inside for you know six months out of the year? Can you kind of talk us through maybe some things that they can do at a facility? And then sometimes people can't even get into facilities, right? Like there's not a lot of people who are gonna you know teach outfield inside of a facility, right? You're you're very unique in that uh aspect. So what can they even do maybe at home in their own house?

SPEAKER_00 31:26

Yeah, um, definitely need some tennis balls, right? You need tennis balls, you need wiffle balls. Um, but I love the tennis ball stuff to work on, you know, glove work. You know, if it's you and a buddy or you and a brother, you know, like literally stand apart from one another and get low, act like you're skipping rocks and like roll the ball at each other, like firm. You know, it don't have to be super hard, but firm. You know, a level that is a is a challenge. Uh so you only need a glove, you can get uh tennis balls for a dollar, like you know, use your glove hand, let it be challenging, then play a game with it, compete. You know, um I've seen you doing some stuff like with like on the wall, like where you know you're throwing the ball, and the player might get thrown against the wall, and a player might have to go receive it. Like I think some of the stuff that that an infielder would do can be good for outfield too. You just have to switch up when you know the point of receiving the ball a little bit. Um But again, like you're really working on reaction time. The one biggest thing is what outfielders gotta realize in the Northeast, and this is what I wish I would have known, you're not getting balls off the bat for like four months. Longer than that, way longer. Longer than that, right? Four months, and you you guys are going and do live hitting versus pitcher, that's fine, but you're not seeing a ball hit off the bat until maybe if you're in most guys are having their uh tryouts indoors, so it might be like that first week of a scrimmage or first week of games against somebody else. So you better find somebody that can hit a fungo or a bat or something, and you can be in a cage, you know. You're not gonna be able to get too much done as far as lateral movement, but at least getting the ground ball there, and if you have more of a smaller field space, Jersey got a lot of facilities. I think I do know that. Um, but it's definitely costly to get into a lot of them sometimes. Yeah, it's just it's difficult too, you know.

SPEAKER_01 33:18

I I you do what you can. I'll be completely honest. There's a couple of kids that I work with um for outfield, and I told them straight up like there's other people, but it just seems like again, there's nobody out there, and I'm like, look, I can teach you how to move and track a flyball. Like it's it's not rocket science. But I struggle because it's like you need that, you you need to see a ball almost, you know, a hundred plus feet away. And otherwise, it's just like I'm just throwing balls into the air, and like any fourth grader can catch a ball that you just throw right at them. But to really be an elite outfielder, like you have to understand that first step, and you have to understand how to go track a ball down. And I don't know how to, for me personally, and this is why I don't market myself as an outfit coach, right? How to train that to a kid indoors when you're when you can't do that. So so how do you get the the finer details, or can that only be replicated outside?

SPEAKER_00 34:18

Yeah, so when I was at the sales, like we were in Allentown, Pennsylvania, so you know, not far from the Poconos. Like it's it's cold. Um, we wouldn't we would do like throwing target drills in our basketball court, like all right, put the ball on a T, try to aim, try to throw it off a little competing. But there were times where like I wasn't I was insane. I'm still a little crazy now, but like I was insane with those guys. I was younger, I was I was fresh.

SPEAKER_03 34:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:45

And I'd be like, all right, we outside, we in the parking lot, y'all. And they'd be like, What? Yeah, coaching parking lot? I'm like, yeah, we in the parking lot. Um, there's another time where you know the the snow had melted, it was dry, we're good. Like we had these tennis courts, and the tennis courts were actually staggered. So like there was some up top, and there was another one down low.

SPEAKER_01 35:05

And you was hitting them from top top.

SPEAKER_00 35:07

So I I was down low. So look, I was down low. So check this out. Um one of them, it like they kept going. It was a large area. I don't know why they had to be in tennis courts. Like, there's not that many people on the team. So it was like stacked up, and it was one way down low. So I'm hitting fungos up top to the outfielders. They couldn't see me though. So that's how staggered it was. They just see the ball. So they see the ball go up, and I'm like, all right, y'all got the hang of it? All right, communication now. Meanwhile, we got a net in front of us. I'm like, all right, that's perfect. The net is the infielder trying to come back on the ball. Make sure you find him too and call him off. You know, so a lot of it became like creative ways to do it because in my mind, none of those guys, those guys are never gonna forget that drill. They can be working at a law firm and doing something else in their lives. And the minute that they see baseball played in the cold weather, they're gonna be like, Yeah, I remember one time we had this insane coach, he was hitting fungals on a tennis court, you know. So I just try to do stuff like that um to keep them engaged. Look, you're not gonna do outfield training every day in the Northeast um in December, January, and stuff like that. But if you can check the weather out and be like, all right, man, we got like 35 degrees in the sun, let's play outside. Because we have to actually run the most on the field. Yeah. So even when we have our training camps, we do some in some cold weather places, or like we went to Texas in uh December.

SPEAKER_01 36:38

Where'd you go in Texas?

SPEAKER_00 36:39

Uh Dallas, specifically Ulysses, Texas Parks uh Star uh um facility over there. Okay, and um so day one was like 60 degrees, it was great. Day two we got a cold front coming in, like 30 wind. I said, guys, don't worry, trust me. You will be warm in about 15 minutes. So then the training, that's a big thing too. If like coaches have to understand like some coaches, you gotta shut up when it's cold. Like, stop talking, right? If you want to talk, go inside, run out the plan, tell them what you're gonna do. When you get out there, keep moving. Drills, drills, because now your your players are warm. Yeah, you're gonna get more out of them. So that's just how I try to look at it to get it the much I can, the most I can out of them.

SPEAKER_01 37:27

Yeah, no, that's good stuff, man. That's good stuff. What is it? Uh run us through like a pregame routine that an outfielder can kind of go through to help get them ready. Obviously, probably taking care of uh BP and actually focusing on BP is probably the number one thing, but what are some other things that a a young high school kid or a college kid can even um do to prep themselves for a game?

SPEAKER_00 37:50

Yeah, I think they need to go, you know, and throw a ball against the side, like against that foul line, if there's a little bit of a weird cut. At a lot of MLB parks, you'll see like a weird cut. Yeah. Um so see how that ball you know bounces off of that, see how the ball bounces off the wall, see how many tracks, see how many steps there are on a warning track. Most high school warning tracks are not very deep. It's not much of a warning. Um, if you're on turf, it's just a different color, so you don't feel anything different. If there is gravel, who's gonna pay more money for extra gravel, right? Yeah, think about it, it's a business. Um, or if there's that game that they're getting a chance to play in like the minor league park, like, hey, now you're on a different track, it's about eight steps. Um, get a feel for that. Uh get a feel for where's the sun, what's the wind like. Um I I would say too, like the grass, you know, again, I grew up in Philadelphia, so like our grass was not great. So I knew I was gonna get a bad hop most of the time. That's gonna affect the way I feel the ball, you know, or hey, like the grass cut a little bit lower, ball's gonna take off on turf and it's wet, ball's gonna go. All those things, if it's not something physical that they could do, like when we talk about throwing against the wall, at least talk about it at with your unit. So when I was coaching, every place I coached at, we always had like a defensive outfield meeting before the game. And that just went over, you know, our scholarly report, a couple guys, like you know, my last two years at Penn State, we got into using the positional cards. Um, but it would go over how was that?

SPEAKER_01 39:22

Sorry, good.

SPEAKER_00 39:23

No, no, you're good. I I liked it. Year one was tough because like you're always changing stuff, and you know, it was kind of the first time using it, first time using it for them as well. It was more new to the industry as well. Um I liked it for the guys on the bench because it kept them in the game.

SPEAKER_03 39:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:42

So we always had a defensive guy going in there and like the ninth, like he already knew where to play. Um but I would do it's hard to do it if you're if the opposing team's not taking BP.

SPEAKER_01 39:54

Or you don't have like actual analytics.

SPEAKER_00 39:57

Yeah, like if you're a high school program, you don't have a lot of analytics. So like you need to beat now. If I was a high school coach, I don't need analytics. You let that opposing team take take a round a round of VP and put their their jersey numbers on their VP tops, I'll know where to play everybody at. Yeah, right. Um so I got obsessed with doing stuff like that, reading swings, like trying to get a feel for where guys are gonna hit the ball based off what he's showing me um and batting practice. If you if you are stepping in the buck in a back batting practice, you're gonna look horrible in the game, and we are not gonna give you any respect in the outfield, we're gonna be shallowed up.

SPEAKER_01 40:32

Yeah. That's good stuff, dude. I mean, dude, there's a craft to it. You while you were speaking, you kind of just reminded me of like that Dennis Rodman scene from the last dance where he's like, I see the spin this way, I go this way, I see the ball this way, I go this way. So I mean, it really is. And playing shortstop myself, like I prided myself in understanding swings and um understanding how to move guys, and I took it upon myself to move the outfield because again, you know, you guys can't some some guys can't see that. Some guys don't take the pride to you know where to go and what to do based on swings. How do you how do you get better at reading swings in your opinion as an outfielder?

SPEAKER_00 41:05

You gotta know. So, like back in the day, I said back in the day, like I'm old, but you know, I'm I'm 36, so I'm somewhere in that middle. I've I've lived a lot alone, you know what I'm saying? So so we used to play at pickup baseball, right? You know, you got four guys, so it'd be, or eight guys, or four on four. So you had to know where Joey was hitting the ball. If Joey was a pull hitter, you had to know that. Like we nobody had to tell me to figure out his swing, but I it was I was relying on knowing that so we could win. And we weren't even playing for nothing.

SPEAKER_03 41:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:36

So with these guys, like I try to do, especially when I'm coaching a team, I try to tell them randomly, hey, where would you play Mark? Where would you where would you play him at? Well, I don't know. Well, how don't you know you've been in practice with him all all year? You know what I mean? It's like May, you don't know where to play him at yet. You've been through the fall, this, so I make sure, yeah, I make sure they know where to play everybody. And then um if the if we have a disagreement, at least we could talk about it, but now we're having an educated baseball conversation.

SPEAKER_03 42:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:07

You know, I get away from just moving a kid and he's just moving because I tell him to, but he doesn't know the reason why. You know, so that that to me um is part of recruiting, right? Like that measures your IQ so that wherever you're gonna go, that's the less that they gotta teach you when you get there.

SPEAKER_01 42:25

So again, not having played the outfield really much, I've probably played a few games, I'd have to imagine, like sometime out there. Um how do you stay locked in, like all the way out there? You know, like you get a few chances, maybe sometimes in a game. I mean, it's the same as in the infield, but I just feel like it's a different presence out there because you are so much further away. If you're playing at a minor league stadium or in a great, you know, college stadium, you got the fans out there that are trying to talk to you, so you're talking to them. Like, how do you really stay locked in throughout a baseball game in the outfield?

SPEAKER_00 43:00

Um, I wasn't good at it when I first started coaching. Like, I feel like I didn't have a tight enough leash on my guys um to get their attention. And my and early in my career, I was at University of Penn in the Ivy League, and if anybody knows, like behind their I've been there.

SPEAKER_01 43:16

We played there this past summer. They got that train track out there.

SPEAKER_00 43:19

It's the it's the highway.

SPEAKER_01 43:20

Oh, the highway and the train track that runs by too, though.

SPEAKER_00 43:23

Exactly. So you got tons of noise. So I was never I wasn't good enough then at like being sort of making sure my guys had discipline to find me as I got into my career. I was like, yo, you can't play out here unless you find me. In between every pitch, every badge, just split your vision. So for me, I would always stand um at this at the uh same spot in dugout all game. You know, whether it was with the and it gets tough sometimes if you're on the road and trying to go in, see where I'm gonna stand, where's the best place, but same spot, and if they see me, I don't have to come out of dugout. Point them, direct them wherever I want them to go, but like that was that was our thing. Um, I got really good at that until we played in Cuba when I was at Penn State, and any you know, international play, like sometimes their dugouts are miles away from the field. Like it feels like there's just unnecessary extra space. Um, so you add in like noise, you talk about staying locked in, you add in like tons of fans, a lot of noise. Um, some guys have never been in that environment before. Like, I think if every American kid could have a chance to play against an international competition, they should absolutely take advantage of it. You'll learn a ton.

SPEAKER_01 44:40

It's awesome, dude. I went down uh after after I got released from Baltimore. I had the opportunity and I got signed to go play in Mexico with the Sultanes in Monterey. And that's it. It just opened up my eyes. And it's more fun, I'll be completely honest, dude. Like, if if you could just stick me in Mexican baseball, and then if I got a chance to play in the pro like in the big leagues, bring me back, that'd be great. Because minor league baseball, for the most part, it's stale, it's it's quiet, like you're just and then down there, it's just it's so much more fun and it's exciting. The games mean more. Yeah, all that stuff, man. That's good stuff, dude. That's good stuff. And so uh, I think you got you got some stuff coming up here in in New Jersey, don't you?

SPEAKER_00 45:24

Yeah, so April 26th. Uh, this will be the third time that we've been uh coming to New that we'll come to New Jersey. So we'll be at Elizabeth High School um on April 26th, and that'll be an outdoor camp. So uh we'll mix in a little bit of recruiting with that afterwards, talk a little bit about it's a four and a half hour camp. So we'll do outfield training for four hours. We'll talk about the whole recruiting process for the final 30 minutes. Um, but people are always like, well, why do we need an outfield camp? Or why do you think I'm like, yo, just come. Like you'll see you'll find out. You think I'm gonna leave my family in Atlanta just to go have a day camp and like be bored? Nah, like we we go and get after it.

SPEAKER_01 46:04

So yeah. And then uh I want to quickly touch on um, well, first off, I'll say if you I've had some people reach out to me, and again, I am an infield coach and a pitching coach. I will help you do outfield if you absolutely need it. I don't want to. So for the people who have reached out to me, who listen to this podcast, who listen to um, you know, uh my YouTube stuff, go to this and tell me what to train you on. Come back to me with the information because again, I don't I don't play outfield. Um, so I I want to talk about your USA stuff because I see that you're uh affiliated there. Kind of talk about are you still affiliated with them? I I saw that just one like coach of the year or yeah, so this it's been cool.

SPEAKER_00 46:46

I think that was and that that that helped me because when I got done coaching for a college, like I was I had that itch to like be around a team, but not doing anything full time technically. Uh and it was great, and they reached they reached out and were like, hey, you want to be involved with our ATU uh national team? At the time, I didn't know a ton about what USA baseball did for the youth level, so I was like, Yeah, like whatever, like not thinking much of it, you know. Um, and you get there and it's the best players in the country. You know, I think my first year, you know, it was like Max Clark's grad graduate. It's Max Clark's and Kevin McGonagall. Uh it was their year. Um I think the year actually, no, that was the second year. The first year was um it was like Trey Phelps, who's now with Georgia, um, RJ Austin, who went to Vanderbilt's now with the Orioles. Like, so you're it's just a load of talent. And the craziest thing is like, all right, now it's time to cut somebody. You know what I mean? It's like now it's time to cut a first rounder. You know, and you got it's it's you're literally building your dream team, and it's different, it's different than like the team we're seeing now in the World Baseball Classic, same organization. However, like there's no tryout for that team. Yeah, they just select, they're like, all right, cool, we won Bryce Harper, whatever, and whoever agrees, agrees. Where with the 18U and the 15U, the two programs I've been involved with, they bring it like a hundred of the best players, you know, to carry North Carolina at the complex and say, all right, well, we're gonna have training camp. And you're gonna be coached by former big leaguers, and then there's guys like me to just find their way into that mix. Um, and I'm trying to find my way into that mix, man. I got you. It's it's crazy. I'm like, I get in this room. Um, and it's like, all right, less like we're gonna have round one cuts, and then you know, we'll bring it back for like the final round of 40 and make a roster. But the key to that, anybody trying to get involved with USA on the playing side, play as many positions as you can because the roster is super small. You're looking at bringing 18 guys. So, like, if all the kids that said, I don't want to play the outfield, guess what? You go and play the outfield with USA baseball to win a gold medal for your country. Um, but it's been great, man. I've I've done some NTIS stuff, been on some task force, which is kind of like the entry-level part of it.

SPEAKER_01 49:06

Um, walk us walk us through the progression that because many kids and parents, I mean, they would love the opportunity, but I bet you 95%, I would say 99% of them don't even know how to even get their kid to that level. They probably think it's reserved for a God-given talent like Max Clark, but I'm sure there's other players who go through the identification process to get there.

SPEAKER_00 49:31

Yeah, every every region has an NTIS. Um, and that is kind of like your entry-level way to get in. So they have regional directors everywhere, and then they pick a team. They're supposed to select a team of guys that they see or that they know, and then bring them to Kerry, North Carolina for like this big event. Um, and then within that big event, there'll be guys like myself that are there on what we call the task force. And then at that event, you know, guys on the task force will identify players from those regional teams to say this kid should get invited to, you know, our our next event that's an invite only. So that's like level one, and then you get to level two, which is you know, an invite-only event. Um, and then if you get out of that, you know, then potentially, depending on your grant, your your uh, your age, you can go straight to like the training camp for 18U or 15 years. Now, I will say that obviously if you're a top dog in the country, you know, best players in California, Florida, like you know, McGonagall's Pennsylvania kid. You know, everybody knew he was good. You know, he got an invite, you know, straight away um because of how good he was.

SPEAKER_03 50:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:45

But but it it's it's super cool to be around that because they're just kids, man. They still make mistakes, you know, and uh and they're pissed when they make mistakes, and now I get a chance to watch them grow and like McDonald will probably be in the league this year for the for the Tigers. So it's that's real cool for him.

SPEAKER_01 51:02

Man, that's awesome. Yeah, no, uh, I I I really didn't know, to be completely honest and transparent. I really didn't know the process of uh USA baseball. Um, I had the opportunity to play USA, team USA with uh uh they had Alex Bregman on there, they had uh Trey Turner on the team back in like 2016. Dudes were nasty, nice with a college team. Um, but I never knew how people got there, you know. Like I guess it's again playing multiple positions.

SPEAKER_00 51:31

You better play like eight positions, man. I'm telling you, like we've had some dog like Drew Burst. Think about that. Drew Burris is gonna be a top first-round pick out of Georgia Tech, who I think is a great kid. I've built a good relationship with him. Um, Drew Burris did not make the ATU national team. He did not make the HTM national team. He's gonna be a first-round pick. Now, he made that collegiate team. He made that team because he's been balling, he's been balling out, doing what he needs to do. But it's when people are thinking USA, and I don't want to say that to like prevent people from trying, you know, wanting to try out, it's oh coaching do that.

SPEAKER_01 52:05

They're gonna be trying out.

SPEAKER_00 52:06

It's certainly it's certainly an honor, but like understand that it is the best of the best, and even the best are still sometimes getting cut, and that's that's part of life.

SPEAKER_01 52:15

Yeah, yeah. All right, well, we're about a uh at an hour here, so I'm gonna run through just a couple questions, just quick hitters, man. You answer them for the people, and then uh we'll log it off. I'll let you get back to your wife and kids right here, man. So um what's what's uh what's maybe not the best, but what's like your top-notch outfield drill that uh kids can implement?

SPEAKER_00 52:36

Oh, you're gonna need a partner. You're gonna need somebody to hit that fungo. It's probably that back it's probably that back spun line drive. If you don't have somebody that can that can hit the fungo, I think it's like your your standard quarterback drill, but make them throw it like uh where it's a challenge and make you run through it.

SPEAKER_01 52:55

Okay. What about uh most underrated outfield skill?

SPEAKER_00 53:00

Uh decision making by far, definitely decision making. Just on where to go with the ball or just where to go with the ball? When should I dive? Is this a ball that I can go get to? Do I know my range? Um, the decision making part to get to the wall, like the decision making within three seconds when that ball's up from when it's barreled, when it's hit, so it gets to you about 3.5 to 4 seconds. Like what are we deciding on?

SPEAKER_03 53:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:30

You know, I think that's underrated, like crazy. And kids would be 10 times better if they just knew what to do on every step because you've probably done that play a thousand times or a hundred times before in your life.

SPEAKER_01 53:42

What about most overrated or something that outfielders think that probably doesn't really help them too much?

SPEAKER_00 53:49

Uh everybody thinks they can throw the ball straight to the third baseman, you know, from right field or center field. I mean, it helps you, no doubt about it. But like just because you can throw the ball, let's say I'm gonna be low, we talked about like just because you can throw the ball 95, like that's great. I'm telling you this, but if you can't hit, I don't I don't really care. If you get if you get poor reads, I don't really care. Yeah, but definitely not say that overrated is gonna be um strength. It depends on level. High school level is probably definitely overrated, big league level. Not so much you need it.

SPEAKER_01 54:21

What about uh best advice right now for a high school outfielder?

SPEAKER_00 54:24

Um, especially the let's go with the theme of your area, like take care of your arm. Um, these guys are gonna go out there and start tryout, start their season, and everybody's gonna try to look good. And it's like, well, what did you do in the offseason to prepare yourself to throw that thing at max effort? I've been there in the you know in the northeast, so my arm hurt for a good amount of my career. And even when I first started coaching, my arm was hurt. I'm like, oh, we can't do this. So I would say take care of your arm, take care of your body, even though you're young. Try to try to play as long as you can without without injuries.

SPEAKER_01 54:58

Two more right here. Hardest ball to track.

SPEAKER_00 55:01

Hardest ball. Uh I would say right at us, uh, which is a lot of people probably think that I would say that, but I'll I dissected to was it right at you, or was it hit towards this side of like this eye, or was it hit on this eye, or was it hit in the middle of your brim? You know, you gotta be specific now. Um, so definitely right at us.

SPEAKER_01 55:20

And then the biggest difference is between corner outfield and uh center field.

SPEAKER_00 55:26

You gotta know how to play them all. I actually prefer that see the kids don't know this. Everybody wants to play center field. I actually like when I hear that kid's playing left field and right field because that slice is harder to understand, so I know he has experience doing it rather than the kid that you know in center field that's never played left field. That's gonna be your biggest difference. But a center field has been in center field his whole life, he's never played left field, it's gonna be a nightmare. Um, where at least you would think if he's that good, he had a chance to get on like a you know an all-star team of caliber players. Now he plays left. But uh guys out there that are corners, just know that you're getting quality work trying to read slice, especially like no offense to eight and nine hitter, but trying to read slice from those guys at the bottom of the order. Make sure you catch it. If you ain't catching, you're not getting the right reads, but um, that's that's our biggest difference.

SPEAKER_01 56:17

Man, this was awesome. Hey, I appreciate you coming on today, man. Leave the people with something. What you got for them? What you got for for the for the kids out there?

SPEAKER_00 56:24

Uh man, like we're we're so blessed to play this game, and like most of you guys are all kids, so so be a kid and like don't take this stuff too serious. Uh train, train, be for real about it, but like, you know, if you make a mistake, just understand that there's somebody who's not getting a chance to make a mistake, or there's somebody who's not getting a chance to play the game at all, or there's somebody who can't afford it or doesn't have the resources or whatever it is. So like that's what I mean, but like don't take it too serious, because at some point, like you and I, the game's over. Uh and then we give it back. So while you're still a player, if I would have if somebody would have told me like, yo, like just not to be cliche, but like go have fun and be a baller. Like your mom, if your parent then drove you an hour or two hours to go to camp, what the heck you're nervous for? Like, why why pay don't pay money to be nervous? You know what I'm saying? So think about it. So let's just go be dogs and and go go have fun.

SPEAKER_01 57:17

And what about for the parents? Leave it with them. They're the ones that are listening to this probably the most. The kids, the kid, the kids see the clips that I'll put on Instagram, they they get that information, but the parents are really the ones soaking up this information. So what you got for them?

SPEAKER_00 57:28

Yeah, especially as a parent myself, um, we challenge our kids in school, right? We we give them hard tests, we give them hard obstacles to try to get past and and and be better, but throughout those things, they're gonna fail. So even if your kids are failing at the sport of baseball, whether it be in the outfield or wherever, like that, like understand it's part of it. But do understand that every time you invest a dollar amount into the failure, know that your son has to be like in it as much as you are. Um, so don't be afraid to have that transparent conversation because it it could, you know, it could help make y'all's relationship better. Um, but this is a part of failing. They shouldn't be out there catching every ball in practice. In a game, catch every ball. But in practice, the level of difficulty is just like in school. We're trying to raise that bar. You're gonna fail a little bit so that you can pass the test.

SPEAKER_01 58:22

Hey, everybody, that's Andre Butler right there with Graveyard Mentality. Y'all can check him out on Instagram at GraveyardMentality. He is all over the place. He's probably working with some of the best outfielders that you see on Instagram. He's all over Georgia, looks like Michigan, Alabama, and now he's coming to New Jersey. So if you've got the time, when is that again? That's on April 26th. April 26th. If you got the time, go check him out. And then again, of course, hit him up on Instagram if you are looking to get better at outfield. Don't hit me up anymore. I think I'm done. I might be done. I think I've taken my last outfield. All right, I'm not gonna run into that. So I appreciate you, man. I really do. Best of luck to you and your career. Um, I'm wishing for you and and your family nothing but the best, and I'm sure we'll cross paths soon. Hey, tell Team USA about me, man.

SPEAKER_03 59:10

I got you.

SPEAKER_01 59:11

Let me get in there.

SPEAKER_03 59:12

Let me get in, man. I got you.