Kama Sutra : Courtship

 Jen and Dagda return after a 3 week break to dive deep into the Kama Sutra—and no, it's not just a sex manual! Jen spent a week researching the ancient Hindu text penned by Vatsyana, revealing it's actually a comprehensive guide for living well, finding worthy partners, and achieving emotional fulfillment.

The Kama Sutra targets young men (though women are welcome to read it) and teaches the four pillars of a well-rounded life: Dharma (righteousness/moral values), Artha (prosperity/economic values), Kama (pleasure/love/psychological value), and Moksha (spiritual liberation/self-realization). It's essentially the original Boy Scout guide for men, helping them become better partners, leaders, and community members.

Jen breaks down the flirting and courtship advice: hosting poetry parties (the original Mad Libs!), creating poems together to find compatible partners, and playing peekaboo swimming (Marco Polo-style). The guide emphasizes realistic expectations—marry within your social circle, share similar interests/core values, and understand that differences (carnivore vs. vegan, anyone?) make relationships harder.

#podcast #kamasutra #courtship #sexpositive #sexhistory #balancedlife

Artwork:bubulina65

Always a good time to be had...After Dark.

We truly enjoyed our time working on the brick and mortar side of the adult industry. We spent A LOT of time trying to satisfy and satiate many a curious mind while educating the 1st timers on some adult fun ideas!

We had a great employer who was not only the 1st fully licensed adult store in Washington , Momma D was the 1st FEMALE adult store owned in our state!

**Music: Burning Night by _NeutralMatrix_**

Transcript

Welcome

SPEAKER_02 0:05

Welcome to Everyday Life. This is our After Dark podcast. My name is Jen.

SPEAKER_00 0:11

And I'm Dagda.

SPEAKER_02 0:12

Here is your explicit content warning. The following episode includes adult language, content, and situations that is intended for entertainment purposes and mature audiences only. So sit back, relax, and take a listen. Ready for the journey, Dagda?

SPEAKER_00 0:31

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 0:32

All right, let's go. No. Yeah. Listen, Linda.

SPEAKER_01 0:40

I like it up here.

SPEAKER_02 0:43

You got it creepy every once in a while, I think.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 0:47

How are you doing?

SPEAKER_00 0:48

I'm doing all right. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_02 0:50

I'm doing good. We've taken a break for uh what, two, three, four weeks? We took a few weeks' break because we had an issue.

SPEAKER_04 0:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:57

Uh, and that all got resolved. That ended up literally being the dumbest reason ever. And that was over a single word in the sentence that I literally changed the word from A to B, and then there was no problems.

SPEAKER_03 1:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:12

But it was still frustrating because it's just like, how can you sit there and say something that's actually historically factually correct? You can't use that word, you might offend somebody.

SPEAKER_03 1:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:25

Assault is a word that happens every day. That was the word I had to take out was assault.

SPEAKER_03 1:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:31

Anyways, fuck them. Fuck them if they don't like it. So, so, but we had the break, right? And so it gave me some time to do some research on the Kama Sutra.

SPEAKER_00 1:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:44

Kama Sutra.

SPEAKER_03 1:46

Kama, Kama, Kama, Kama, Karma Chameleon.

SPEAKER_02 1:49

Every time. Every time I I was at work the other day, and Karma Chameleon came on in the evening, and I'm just like, oh, did I? I literally I stopped in the middle of an aisle and went, oh, did I finish the Kama Sutra research? Yes, I need. So I did the research on it and kind of got the history of it. And I thought it

The Research

SPEAKER_02 2:10

was pretty, it's pretty interesting. What do you know about the Kama Sutra?

SPEAKER_00 2:15

It's a book of sex magic.

SPEAKER_02 2:18

It's a book of sex. It is not a book of sex magic. It's not. No, so I know you're being funny, but is that really what you think it is?

SPEAKER_00 2:28

I mean, it's meant to be um sort of ritualized sex that um is supposed to fucking lead you to enlightenment.

SPEAKER_02 2:38

It's that's one part of it for sure. So, and and you know, it's it's a it's fascinating reading the history of this. This is not like a five-minute conversation because it's very it's actually really fascinating. So the Kama Sutra is penned, they say, by um Vatsyana, and I'm hoping I'm saying it right because that's the way the phonetic spelling said was Vatsyana.

SPEAKER_04 3:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 3:03

So Kama Sutra Sutra actually is the principles of love. It's actually not a sex position manual, it's a guide specifically targeting men. Okay, it very specifically targets men, but women are welcome to read it as well. Um, and so it's a guide meant to like enlighten and enhance the art of living well, um, what the nature of love is, uh, how to find different partners, good partners and equal partners and worthy partners.

SPEAKER_00 3:37

And uh especially interesting because most of those people had arranged marriages at that point.

SPEAKER_02 3:45

There's a reason for that. So they were arranged in the sense of you can only pick from this cast, and you tell us what the person is you like the best, we'll arrange the marriage. So there's like this whole thing later on where you're going through and it talks about you want to basically pick like within your social level. And that is so you have somebody who you're not gonna get bored with. So they would meet different people within their caste sept, their their social section, their social rank or societal rank. So like if you were a dentist, obviously you're gonna be meeting with professionals. And I say dentist like it's a real thing back then, but it's not quite the same. Yeah, it's um completely different. Yeah. But if so, if you were somebody who was a uh if you owned a business and you were uh a merchant, then you wanted to be in the same company of other merchants, so you would have more common things to talk about.

SPEAKER_00 4:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:45

And it wouldn't it because it's it's a big long thing.

SPEAKER_00 4:49

Well, there was more to it than that as far as the staying within your cast because the cast system was self-reinforcing. Yes. So I don't know how much mobility that you had because you were born to your cast. It wasn't you you got to choose. No, you're fucking born this fucking social uh uh rank, and you're gonna stay that for your entire life almost guaranteed.

SPEAKER_02 5:14

It's it's yeah, it's it's only like a certain amount of guarantee because you can lose if your family lose their cast, you will fall.

SPEAKER_00 5:22

But you can you can also is extremely small.

SPEAKER_02 5:25

It's yeah, it's only like a 30% chance of rising, and you have to go above and beyond to do it.

Vatsyana

SPEAKER_00 5:30

Yeah, but again And also you have to look a certain way in order to do it.

SPEAKER_02 5:33

Yeah. Um, I mean, it's like literally basically the way one of the analogies that I read was it's like if you basically pick within a 10 block radius, pick within your means. It's kind of a way that they put it. But it but it's interesting because again, this is targeted more for guiding men. And then of course, women were encouraged to read it, um, certain parts of it. But mostly this this literally is a manual for men. And the last aspect of the manual is um, you know, the other aspects that come with um, you know, pleasures and you know the orientation of your pleasure faculties, like what can blink bring you pleasure besides sex? Okay, so which I find really interesting. So um I was kind of I like almost stopped doing the research, but I'm like, why is this really targeted towards men? And until and I was I like literally almost stopped researching, and then I'm just like, oh, well, then you have to go back in time in your mind and realize that women were giving choices, but limited sets of choices. And and Hindu women and actually had a lot more freedoms, a lot more freedoms than any other culture out there. They really did because they had the right to say no. If somebody said, um you know, Vana wants to marry Bishu, and Bishu's like, no. Bishu has the right to say no and reject it, but Vanu can go out and like get another prospect. And if that person says no, he can come back and double his offer to the first one. Because a lot of times the women aren't wanting to be in the relationship unless it really helps their family. They really didn't want to do the marriages unless it really helped the family, or they had a really good connection. Almost everybody who was a step below would say yes, but it's it's just once we get through the whole thing, you'll be like, Whoa. Cause I really was. I spent basically a week reading the only thing I didn't do was read the book, and that's because I couldn't get a hold of the copy of one. And so, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:45

Well, I mean, the also the ones that we have here in the United States are probably extremely watered down and only in the sex part, not the like philosophical and other shit that's in there. Um, because most of them are sold at sex shops.

SPEAKER_02 8:04

Yeah, and and so it's a very edited um edition. And so that's the really like literally the sex portion of it is such a small aspect compared to the whole thing. So I guess the best, and I'm not like, don't get offended, okay? But the best way to acknowledge it, I think, would be or to say it would be kind of like it's comparative for it's like the Boy Scouts guide. You know, we show the Boy Scouts, they have a whole book of rules, regulations, and guides they try to teach you. Basically, this is like the original Boy Scout guide, if you if you look at it that way, because it is targeted towards young men and men in general, and it's it's great to an extent.

SPEAKER_00 8:49

That kind of makes sense. One of the um hypnosis dudes that I follow, he uh has for years talked about doing

The Pillars

SPEAKER_00 9:00

a I can't remember what he called it, but it basically like a Kama Sutra training. Um and he complained about because he studied like traditional um fuck, I can't remember what the practice is called. But anyway, basically the Kama Sutra.

SPEAKER_02 9:17

Kuru Shartha? Uh Sharpas or Sharthas?

SPEAKER_00 9:22

I don't remember. But anyway, he was saying that um when you finally find someone who is actually trained in this, it's really hard to fucking go through the process because first of all, it takes several years of doing the like meditation and philosophy portion of it before you get to the actual sex part.

SPEAKER_02 9:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 9:45

And that causes most people to be like lose interest. Yes. Um, and so one of the things he was talking about doing was using hypnosis to short to basically fast-track that part of it because as far as like the meditated practices, you could do it really quickly if you're using hypnosis to do it, um, rather than spending months staring at your navel.

SPEAKER_02 10:09

But anyway, yeah, it's interesting. So it's so the book itself acknowledges Peru, P-U-R-U, Sharthas, and the literal translation for that, which I am so apologetic to anybody Hindu or in India that I don't know how to pronounce it right. Yeah, I apologize, but that's my best American in translation. Uh, it literally means the objective of men. So it is supposed to be teaching men very specifically, because one of the things that um Vatsana set thought, and he's not, they're not really sure if he's the writer of it, he's just credited with it. Okay, because he did like some acknowledgments and stuff. But, anyways, he really pressed the idea of the Kama Sutra or Kama Sutra on people because he wanted men to do better than they had before. That's the whole idea. So it so it acknowledges Peru sh uh sharthis, right? The objective of men, literal translation, and it deals with four points.

SPEAKER_03 11:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 11:12

Dharma, which dharma is righteousness, moral values. So it teaches you how to discover your dharma.

SPEAKER_04 11:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 11:22

Your artha, that's about the prosperity and your economic values.

SPEAKER_03 11:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 11:27

And then you have kama, and that's all about pleasure, love, and psychological value.

SPEAKER_03 11:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 11:35

Which a pause on that is very important because I already under take sex out of the equation. What gives me pleasure is my friends and family. It brings me joy. That's my pleasure.

SPEAKER_00 11:50

There are many things that can bring you pleasure.

SPEAKER_02 11:52

Absolutely. So for me, uh and a lot of people don't understand this in an absolutely non-sexual way, you bring me psychological value because you teach me and you're fucking amazing. Oh, for fuck's sake. Anyways, and then of course, moksha, and that's about liberation, spiritual value, and self-realization. So four very important factors for they believed for being a well-rounded individual and a well-rounded man and a better man to lead his family and community. Um, and what's really cute about it, and I

Partner Selection

SPEAKER_02 12:30

I would love to see them take the sex portion out and do all the other philosophical stuff in there for the for, you know, like younger guys, younger women too. But so the book itself, it lists desire, sexuality, and emotional fulfillment as one of the proper goals of life. The thing about it is, is it's with the right partner.

SPEAKER_00 12:51

Yeah, and it's like within reason, obviously.

SPEAKER_02 12:55

100%. And and that's the thing is like they firmly believed you had to understand your dharma, your artha, your kama, and your moksha to achieve understanding the the sexuality and emotional fulfillment. And that's a key thing, like a lot of people are are missing in this. They're just like, oh, let's talk about sex. Fulfillment, emotional fulfillment is a huge thing because what fulfills you, what emotionally fulfills you where you feel you have emotional stability and mental health and balance in your life? What fulfills you emotionally? Don't say that special sock from the dryer. We're not talking about the sock goblins.

SPEAKER_00 13:40

No, I wasn't even gonna talk about that. Oh, thank god. I was gonna talk about murdering stupid people.

SPEAKER_02 13:45

Um having a fantasy of murdering is completely different than doing.

SPEAKER_00 13:49

Um having peace.

SPEAKER_02 13:55

And what brings you peace?

SPEAKER_00 13:57

That special sock. And murdering stupid people.

SPEAKER_01 14:03

Well, it's true. Um I'm like, we're actually we're having fun, but it's actually a serious question you have to ask yourself.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

Yeah, basically, fucking um being able to be calm and relaxed. That fucking yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:19

So being able to like in difficult situations figuring out a way to calm and relax yourself. And that's where you found meditation works for you. I mean, not meditation, self-hypnosis works for you.

SPEAKER_00 14:27

Yeah. Meditation, self-hypnosis, basically the same thing.

SPEAKER_02 14:31

I I meditate every night when I go to bed with my stuffed dog, and I don't think I did it well enough last night because I did have another. It was a very short episode, though. It it was a very, very short episode of having the uh sleep paralysis demons, but I meditate every night before I go to bed, and I've kind of expanded with that, but anyways, I'm not gonna squirrel, I promise. Um, so it also discusses the methods of courtship and training in the arts of being socially engaging, how to find a partner, how to flirt with a partner, maintaining power in a married life, which sounds so outdated. But back then, the men were expected to lead their family. They didn't have this where it's a basically a joint task force. You know, it's not like the FBI and CIA or they're gonna get together and do this job. You've got to have one or the other lead. And that was okay back then because again, they used to work on the caste system, which is pretty much gone now. Yeah. I mean, to an extent. Um, when and how to commit adultery, which is super funny. Uh, different sexual positions, those are all little parts.

SPEAKER_00 15:49

Yeah, there's like a chapter on this and chapter on that.

SPEAKER_02 15:51

Yep. Kind of thing. The majority of the texts discusses the philosophy and the theory of love, what triggers desire and what sustains

Courtship

SPEAKER_02 16:00

desire, and how and when desire is good or bad for you. So it really goes into this, it really goes into your mind because even um Votsyana acknowledged that sex is not a constant throughout your life.

SPEAKER_03 16:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:16

Which, you know, sad face, uh, spoiler alert for anybody under 30. Sorry. You you hit it's a thing that people don't realize. You hit patches where you just don't want to. Yeah. Not everybody is like Hal and Loak Lois on Malcolm in the Middle doing it into their 90s. Uh it's just not the reality. And so that was the one thing that Vatsiana had said about this was teaching you how to keep that desire with your partner and all of that. And the thing about adultery, um, he was not a um promoter of it. Yeah, he wanted people to understand there were times where there was acceptable ocays to do certain things, and but the adultery was mostly for the women and not the men. Right. Okay. So this is this is old, and this is something that a lot of people read, right? So this goes all the way back to like 300, 400, 300 BCE. That's a long time ago.

SPEAKER_03 17:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:15

Um, and it's been collected into its present form in the second century, according to the British historian John Key. However, the co-translator, of course, a woman, Wendy Doniger states the surviving version has um it's been composed or it was revised after 225 BCE, um, as it mentions um dynasties that were not existing in the ancient India, like the um Abhiras and the Anthras during the original writing. So it mentions something that couldn't have existed during Vatsayana life, right? There is no mention of the Gupta Empire, which went from 300 to 600. Um yeah, so it ruled the area from the fourth to fix. There's no mention of that, and and there really is a lot of mention about like social status and all that. So everybody's gonna debate it. And I think you end up kind of taking from it what you want.

SPEAKER_03 18:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 18:17

You know, like it's it's just like it's like when we read Dresden. There are certain things I key into a little bit more than maybe you, and then vice versa. And then together we doubly enjoy it more because it's like, oh, I didn't even notice that. Well, yay, exciting! So it's it's kind of the same way with you know. Um, so here's the thing it's it's exact location, um, exactly when it was composed and where it was composed. Nobody's really nobody's really sure on that. Um, Vatsayana is a note is note is notated and widely accepted as the author because his name is embedded in the the colophone verse, the the brief statement that you know that contains information about the publication at the start, like I dedicate this to John Dew because he made my John Deere happy. Like that kind of thing. Yeah. Um Vatsayana stated that he did, in fact, write the text after a long period of meditation, and he cites the works of others that he called his teachers and and and everybody's teachers and scholars. Um Adilaki, Bob Ravgra, uh Dataka, Savamama, like dozens of people. So he took a little bit from everybody, studied it, and then put it together with what he thought was the best answers.

SPEAKER_03 19:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 19:35

So I love I love this drink. So I figured, uh, so that's kind of the backstory on on the Kama Sutra, right? Okay. So I figured we'd talk about a little bit about what's on the inside of it. It's really healthy for him to hear this too because he is currently single, ladies. All the single ladies, all the single ladies, all the single ladies. Uh flirting and courtship. Get over here.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

Right. Hey, you get in my car.

SPEAKER_02 20:04

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 20:06

Anyway.

SPEAKER_02 20:07

Um, so what's interesting about it is it's just a key guideline and it's so hilarious. It's super cute. Um, so one of the major things that he discusses is flirting and courtships, and it's a very uh it's it's a very kind of short but sweet thing. So uh it suggests that young men send them dick pics

Marriage

SPEAKER_02 20:31

on a stone tablet back then, I imagine. Yeah. Excuse me, can you paint a portrait of my penis, mostly not flaccid, to Vayana over there? Of course, doucheku. I just like her name. I just like her name. Um so the first thing it recommends uh is that if men who are seeking women uh who want to attract them, they should hold a party and ask the guests each to recite poetry. And they make a game with a poem, missing parts, and have the guests fill it in. So believe it or not, it is the original. Do you know what it is? The original of the very first, the very original mad libs.

SPEAKER_00 21:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 21:17

It's literally, it's it's literally what we would consider to be mad libs or the add-to game where it's just like I was walking by the river Thine and I saw a red flower. I thought it was a rose, but it really was your turn. So it would be something kind of like that, or it would be something like um filling in Shakespeare or a monologue, but creating poetry together. It's a bonding experience.

SPEAKER_00 21:48

Also, this is making me think even more of what I thought in the beginning, which is this is obviously meant for the fucking upper echelons of their society. Um well the thing about it is a lot of the lower echelon people would be like a party, I ain't got time for this fucking shit.

SPEAKER_02 22:08

I gotta go milk them goats and hoard them sheep. Well, the thing about it is is it's apical for every class of person. And whether you can or cannot follow it is is entirely not his fault. But he's saying the situation works.

SPEAKER_00 22:25

Also, I don't know, like um I don't know the educational level of the lower castes. Like in Europe, most people couldn't read. Right. But I don't know if that's applicable to to like India and China.

SPEAKER_02 22:42

I believe in India they wanted everybody, at least all the males were encouraged to read, regardless of caste. I mean so they wouldn't make the social blunders of walking into the wrong shop, yeah. Um so so yeah, it is kind of interesting because that's their biggest recommend is throw a party, create poetry together. Because the idea of creating poetry together would tell you who would be upon reflection of the completed poem and who wrote what could give you a better idea who might be a better match for you because you're on the same mentality, you're understanding how to there once with a man from Oregon. Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

Nope, only Nantucket.

SPEAKER_02 23:31

Um, so but that was the idea, is it would give you a way to kind of see, like if you and I were to do uh uh poetry and we were to make fun of single people, you know what I mean? Like if we were to make fun of you, like you're like, I'm the smart one, and I'd be like, you are the smart one. You know, but it's just a way to see if you're kind of on the same brain wavelength. So you would you would take note of it, and then after the poetry was read, you know, completed, and you would see on there in black black and white or whatever color ink they used back then, you would see who might be a very good match for you based on the same logic. You said that before you even went in the fucking door, bro.

SPEAKER_00 24:13

Anyways, um but if they were like, Oh, we're gonna compose poetry, I'll be like, nah, I'm good.

SPEAKER_02 24:20

Unless you got to recite, recite gar guar. I mean, guar is technically some type of poetry, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

Pink pony club, they actually have a t-shirt for that now, and they have a single for that. Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:34

They have uh on one side it's I'm just Ken. And on the other, it's Pink Pony Club. And uh, they sell it on a seven-inch vinyl. Nice, which, yeah. Like the old the little little old 45s.

SPEAKER_00 24:49

I was gonna say.

SPEAKER_02 24:50

Do you remember the old 45s from when we were kids? Yeah. You should because you had like your read-along books on that until you destroyed it.

SPEAKER_00 24:57

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 24:58

And now goes.

Realistic Expectations

SPEAKER_00 25:00

I think I might still have that fucking record player, even. I'm not sure. Because there's a little like travel one.

SPEAKER_02 25:08

Yeah. Anyway, he's gonna get the guar seven inch and find that, and he's gonna sit in his room, crisscross applesauce on his bed, and sing guar pink pony club. God, what have you done? You're a pink pony girl. He danced the club. Oh mama. Literally, I don't even like guar, but I love their version of that.

SPEAKER_03 25:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:29

Because I didn't think hilarious. It's so great. Plothar squander. Uh, I actually came out of my mouth. Okay, anyways. But the other game suggestion that he had was to go uh when you found somebody that you liked, go and do peekaboo swimming. Not take your clothes off. It would be go and then go underwater and swim away and be like peekaboo. Almost like Marco Polo.

SPEAKER_00 25:52

This party's fucking lame.

SPEAKER_02 25:54

Let's go peekaboo swimming, peekaboo.

SPEAKER_00 25:57

For me, it would be peekaboo drowning. Anyway.

SPEAKER_02 26:01

See, this is why you weren't born back then. This is why you were born now. Because you couldn't live in this life. There was no guar, there was no porn stars, there were no special socks, none of that existed. There's a lot of sand and a lot of dirtiness in the Ganges River. Still is. It's very polluted, anyways. Um, so one of the things he wanted to teach with with flirting and courtship, or the Kama Sutra teaches flirting and courtship, is that marriage is a conductive means to a pure natural love between partners. It can lead to, and it should lead to, emotional fulfillment in numerous forms. Um, if you get along well, it should mean more friends for both people. So more friends to have more mad lib poetry parties with and Pikao swimming.

SPEAKER_00 26:52

More friends to ignore.

SPEAKER_02 26:54

Uh, more relatives you gain. They firmly believe it's not like even though we say like mother-in-law, father-in-law here, it's considered second mother, second father, another sister, another brother. It's mother, it's just mother, it's just mother and father.

SPEAKER_00 27:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:08

It's mom and dad, mother and father, whatever, sister, brother. Um great.

SPEAKER_00 27:12

I could have two dads.

SPEAKER_02 27:18

They did a TV show about that in the 80. I believe it was called My Two Dads.

SPEAKER_00 27:21

Oh, yeah, I think so. Yeah, something like that.

SPEAKER_02 27:23

Which I yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:24

Min.

SPEAKER_02 27:29

Anyways, uh progeny, so children, um, amorous relationship, sexual relationship, like guaranteed sexual relationship, because if you partnered and picked well, you would be constantly craving each other's sexually.

SPEAKER_04 27:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:44

Um, and then of course, the joint pursuit of Dharma, um, a spiritual and ethical life. So you'd be very balanced on that and would encourage each other to stay within the realms of those things. And then, of course, Artha, you'd have a better economic life because you would have stability. So essentially, you know, if you were a merchant, you may have your wife help you at the shop. So free labor, hello, that's a good thing, right? Um, or if you were, you know, say higher than that and you were like, I want to say land baron, but I don't think that's applicable to that time, maybe. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 28:19

But if you were like a landlord, I had something similar at least.

SPEAKER_02 28:22

Yeah. And and and so you were out traveling, collecting your dues, you know, you would want your wife at home taking care of everything, keeping your home and hearth how happy and healthy. Um, but it also so the guide itself also help help set uh realistic expectation. You wanted to look for somebody with the same or they really emphasize looking for somebody with the same or similar interests. So, like for you looking for uh a part, if you were to be looking for a long-term partner and not just a short-term booty call. So if you were to look for a long-term partner, you would probably want to look for somebody who either A goth gamer girl. There you go. Yeah, but but like wants to do, like would want to join your game group with you and sludge through the we're only gonna work on the campaign three times this entire year, but we're gonna get together 52 times. Yeah. Um, who would want to do that, or who would want to, you know, independently like Did you did you read that new lit RPG? My boss Nova Yeah. So you'd want to stay in that realm, but I think you just nailed it perfect. And and of course, as soon as you say that, I immediately think of somebody that I know of from the local store, and you know exactly who I'm thinking of. And she is very sweet, but she's not for you, but she's very sweet. I'm pretty sure she loves girls, girls, girls. Um only only dumb people. Um, and and then, and of course, you want to look for somebody who has the same or civil similar cult core value values, and um uh especially in religious aspects. So, you know, because it just, you know, and and and

Gender Equality

SPEAKER_02 30:00

I tell you what, this is something my partner and I struggle with because uh at the center of all, we have the same core values, but I'm slightly left, he's slightly right. Yeah, you know, I'm left of center, he's right of center, and he hates it when I class it like that, and I apologize, but it's just kind of a reality. Like, I have uh shorts I would feel fine wearing to work, but he's just like, um, I I don't think those are appropriate for work. And I'm like, well, they are because it's gonna be hot as balls this year. Yeah um, but so I found a second pair and said, What do you think about these? And it still isn't within his uh realm of satisfaction, but it's it's about the about the biggest compromise I'm gonna make. Because, like, look, this Saturday, we just had our hottest day of the year recently so far. And the AC at work, and it's a big building, you could not feel that AC unless you were standing directly underneath a vent. And it was and it was set to keep the shop at 78 degrees, no more than 78 degrees. And we have big, huge line of glass windows that make it 10 degrees hotter with the sun beating out on you. Yeah, I was probably another 30 minutes of working away from having swamp ass again. No thanks. I need I need some shorts so I can have some AC going to my another ya-ya. Just saying.

SPEAKER_00 31:24

Uh, anyways, some alpaca underwear.

SPEAKER_02 31:29

Alpaka spare pair of underwear. Get it? Alpaca. Yeah, yeah. You're like, you dork, nerd. Uh, anyways, um, so it sets everything in motion for the right thing. Hi, I like books. Do you? Yes, I do. I like meat, do you? No, I don't. Oh, well, we could be friendly, but that I have to have meat in my life. I'm a carnivore. So, see, you know, you're setting those proper expectations. Now, I I have met people where one partner is a carnivore and the other partner is a vegan or vegetarian. And I'm like, I don't see how that works because you can't be vegan or vegetarian, and they have two sets of everything. And I'm just like, I literally just had a couple come in to the shop on Saturday that were buying a second set. They're moving in together. She's a vegetarian, he's a carnivore, and they're just gonna have two sets of everything.

SPEAKER_00 32:22

I remember at the old shop, um, there was a dude who worked there, and he fucking would bring in a little toaster oven. Ugh. And he would cook his dinner while he's there because he was working the night shift. And one of the customers was a vegan, and he came in the next day because the dude had been cooking steak or whatever. Yeah, and he was crying about fucking oh, it just was so gross, I could smell the cooking meat. Like, go in the back, take a sniff.

SPEAKER_02 32:53

Yeah, turn it around. This tastes like shit. Turn it around. That's the thing, is so I'm not saying those relationships are impossible. I just can't imagine if you're a hardcore vegan or vegetarian. Uh, and uh because anytime that you speak to somebody who follows veganism in any way, it's I don't want to hurt animals or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 33:24

Yeah, a lot of them are like that, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:26

But I think the relationships at work where you have opposites is people who are just like, no, literally, my body doesn't break down the protein complex, the complex proteins of meat or whatever. I don't know. I mean, I don't know. I just don't see it being a long-term solution because I most certainly not gonna be the MF or standing out on the back deck during a snowstorm trying to fry me up a ribeye. I'll be like, nah, I live here too. You go outside and breathe, okay? You go outside and breathe so I can enjoy my fucking ribeye and all the bloody juice that mmm because I would do that.

SPEAKER_03 34:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:06

I did fun, fun story. I had an aunt when she was alive, God rest her soul. She had a thing about overcooked meat, like other people we know in life. Okay, it's gotta be overcooked, can't be any bloody. Well, my ex-husband had grilled food for us over at my grandfather's house when he was still alive, and he uh he did a very well done steak for her, and then did the rest of us the way we liked it, which were medium. And I waited and I watched for her to get into that steak. And the minute she did her first cut on it, I went. She was so mad she got up and went and third threw it into the fucking microwave for five minutes. She was angry with me. She's like, I'm not gonna give you no coconut cream pie. And I'm just like, well,

A Guide for Success

SPEAKER_02 35:00

I'll never do it again. I did do it again, but I pretended like I'd never do it again. That's me. I'm not a vegan, I'm not a vegetarian. I respect that you are, but don't don't come up into my house and tell me not to pull the feathers off that chicken and eat it, because I will.

SPEAKER_03 35:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:19

I will eat bison. I will eat cow, um, chicken, piggy.

SPEAKER_00 35:25

Um did you know I think I mentioned this before. Did you know that there were bison in Europe also?

SPEAKER_01 35:31

Uh-huh. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:32

I never knew that. I thought they just had like cows and fucking uh buffalo. Although buffalo are native to fucking Africa, but you know what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01 35:42

So fun fact.

SPEAKER_02 35:45

So y'all uh we're we're gonna get back to the conversation in a second, but I'd read square, I had read a news report and I was talking to you about the scientists, and um, yeah, actually, I did know they had bison. Did you know they also went almost went extinct? Yeah, and how they saved them. So don't say anything more because on on conversations over coffee, that's what this is about.

SPEAKER_00 36:14

No, okay.

SPEAKER_02 36:14

This is part of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm excited.

SPEAKER_00 36:17

Did they talk about England in that report that you read?

SPEAKER_02 36:20

Uh so uh it did talk about so it talks about this specific, it talks about a very specific person and what they basically created and perfected and how it saved the bison.

SPEAKER_03 36:32

So okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:34

So it's it's it's shocking because a lot of people didn't know for many years, but it's actually true. Um okay. Uh so they look for somebody with same similar interest, look for same or similar core values, uh, especially you know, religion, all that. And then the biggest statement of it all was one should play, marry, and associate with one's equals, people of one's own circle. Uh, basic differences make managing relationships more challenging. So it was something that in this guide that they really wanted people to know, like, hey, you you can marry who you literally, you can marry who you want to marry. But just understand, if you look at Vanya and Vanya wants to have pork nine times a week, and you only can afford it once a week, you might have problems.

SPEAKER_04 37:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:27

And if if Vanya wants to worship under the pagan status and you want to follow Buddhist, you might have a problem.

SPEAKER_00 37:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:35

You had to think about that one for a second.

SPEAKER_00 37:37

No, uh I was having a fucking moment. Actually, moment in my head, whatever.

SPEAKER_02 37:47

Well, the the so what's really interesting about partnerships is yes, the more you have in common with somebody, the the more it might work when you're going through difficult times. You know, whether it's a financial struggle, an intimacy struggle, no matter what you're dealing with, because everybody goes through these ups and downs where they're engaged in the relationship or they're not engaged in the relationship.

SPEAKER_04 38:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:06

And how you the the more similarities you have, the easier it is to get through. But, you know, at the end of the day, you you marry who you want to marry, you partner with who you want to partner with, and um or you can afford to. Well, yeah, and you kind of let the you know, it's a roll of the dice no matter what.

SPEAKER_00 38:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:22

Because, you know, we've seen it time and time again on these true crime documentaries like Match Made in Heaven, both from Ivy League schools, both earning six figures, both notorious and well-respected doctors, and dun dun dun, the intern caught his eye, or and then the baseball player caught her eye. So it it doesn't really matter, yeah. But it's what they encouraged because um divorce was very uncommon back in those times. Like, you know, when you say uncommon, like you were allowed to divorce back then, but they wanted

Until Next Time!

SPEAKER_02 39:00

you to have reasonable answers as to why. So if you were taking all the recommended steps to avoid the problems and you still had the problems like irreconcilable differences, you know, then they were more likely to grant it. Or they might grant you something where it was just like, well, you don't get a divorce, but you, ma'am, can go have sex with another partner because he's not fulfilling his obligation as a man.

SPEAKER_00 39:25

Yeah. Well, yeah, and like in several other non-Christian um societies, it was acceptable, let's say.

SPEAKER_04 39:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:37

If not not common, but it was acceptable for like in Japan and in the um uh Norse region, Scandinavia, um, for the woman to divorce the man because of sexual reasons or like this would happen sometimes to like Vikings, because Viking was a job description, not the society, um where the dude's gone for months and months, and so the woman's like, yeah, I'm sick of this fucking shit. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:09

And a lot of times they had salt wives.

SPEAKER_00 40:11

So I mean, yeah, a lot of that's a very common thing if a dude fucking goes elsewhere for work that he'll end up well, you know, and some of these ships had shared salt wives on them.

SPEAKER_02 40:26

So, you know, it's it's it's it's that theory that we have what's good for the goose is good for the gander. It's like you have to have equal play. So it's kind of interesting that like Batiana and all the other philosophers were like, look, we know shit's gonna happen, but we want to try to set you up for success in the right way, which ironically, I think is some of the best teachings that's out there, like saying, hey, you can form your own opinion, but we've looked at this and we've thought about this and we've studied this. And this is where we're seeing the most success, the most joy, the most happiness. And it's that thing where it's just like the many to the few. That's what they're looking at, is the many to the few. So, anyways, we've ran out of time today. We'll talk more about what the next part of the Kama Sutra is. Hope you guys have a fantastic day.

SPEAKER_00 41:16

Later.

SPEAKER_02 41:17

Bye. Thank you for joining us on our After Dark journey today. Please follow, like, subscribe, and share. Until next time.

SPEAKER_00 41:40

Later.

SPEAKER_02 41:41

Bye.