Commission Impossible: Full Circle

Welcome to Commission Impossible! A little spin off from The Mountain West Podcast. Chad Moore is bringing Troy Hardy on board. Covering everything from local happenings to national, they are talking about it all. 

In this episode, Jake Woodward is in the house! They discuss what is going on in the retail industry, trends they are seeing in sales, the wonderful congestion in Northern Utah County, and of course – the Utah Mammoth.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Okay, we ready? 321 123. Let's go.

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Let's do it.

SPEAKER_00 0:12

Welcome everybody to the podcast. We have a pretty cool episode today, but before we do that, I want to say thank you to everybody that's been listening. This podcast was started with an idea just to have fun and interview commercial real estate people and people outside, people adjacent. And it's been more successful than we thought it would be. And that's because of all of you that actually listen to it. So I just wanted to take a moment and say thank you, and this is awesome, and we're having a fun time, which is probably why you like the content because we're having as much fun as anybody else. So today we are actually going to try a totally different format to what we've been doing before. We have a new segment we're experiment experimenting with, and it's called, well, actually, we don't know what it's called. Chopping it up. Chopping it up. We might go with broker talk, we might go with commission accomplished, or we might go with Commission Impossible. Commission Impossible, which is more likely. I like that one. So we've got on this podcast, whatever the name is, Troy Hardy, who's a returning guest. He's a beautiful man. I guess. Jake Woodward. Hey, it's my first time, guys. Glad to be here. So Troy has previously introduced himself, but I'd love to give him the floor to introduce, reintroduce himself.

SPEAKER_02 1:29

I think we're good. Uh I I mean, yeah, I think everybody knows.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

I mean, if anyone's know enough, I would love to introduce him. Yeah. Yeah, let's pass on that. Troy's an absolute legend. Yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 1:39

Introduce a legend to Troy.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

Yeah, no, I'm I'm Jake Woodward. I'm actually new to the to the uh Newmark Mountain West family as of uh January 1, and it's been awesome. So again, I think people listening to this pod probably know who I am too. I've been around for the better part of two decades in the business. And uh yeah, so it's good. I do have to give a little disclaimer though, I'm I'm a little foggy today because last night I was a long night. Long night. Got home at 2 30 in the morning because I was uh uh acting as a blackjack dealer for a high school graduation party. So yeah, it was good. And you know, after doing that. I didn't take home anything, and I had to remind them you gotta tip your dealer, right? And that they're too young, they don't understand. But yeah, after I, you know, spent a couple hours doing that, listening to like blaring rap music, and just I was like, I got home and I was just buzzing, man. I was like baked. So long night. Long night. But I'm glad to be here.

SPEAKER_00 2:33

That's all right. Glad to know that we have 50% Jake with us today.

SPEAKER_01 2:37

Well, I did crush a monster, so which I don't do normally. I didn't think it was great.

SPEAKER_02 2:41

50% Jake is is more than 100% of most people. That's true. I don't know. So it's it's probably better that we have him.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

I'm trying to figure out right now, like I uh we're standing in what June 1st almost here, and we're almost halfway through the year, and I feel like brokers and people in commercial real estate are complaining, which is totally normal. That's what we do best. But the pipeline is tough right now, feels a little dry. I feel like we started out the year last year was phenomenal, was a pretty good for for most people. Good. Beginning of this year started out super strong in January. Um felt great about this year, and then Trump decided to invade not invade, but to start a war with Iran. And interest rates obviously exploded, and there's a million other factors too. But I think most of us in commercial real estate and in real estate are feeling a little bit of a slacked pipeline. I feel like it's getting better, but have you guys experienced that or am I just imagining these things?

SPEAKER_02 3:50

I think I've said this before. I I sit next to Scott Brady, so I haven't noticed any slowdown at all. It seems like the deactivity just keeps keeps coming. No, there's definitely a little bit of a weird pause taking place right now. I I hope that we're not that uh you know, that roller coaster at the very top of that first drop, you know, where some people are some people are still looking up, other people are already looking down. You just you know, yeah, I don't want to feel that feeling ever again. Um but I I do agree with you though.

SPEAKER_00 4:21

I think it's an interesting metaphor though, because like a lot of why I'm saying that is because not only people here in Utah and the mountain west area are complaining, but as a general rule, I've always found that we lag behind most primary markets. Utah's a secondary market for most people, high secondary, we could probably say high secondary, I'd say. Um, but you know, LA, New York, Miami, whatever, they have experienced a pretty significant dry pipeline. And Utah's insulated for the most part from a lot of those ups and downs, but we're still feeling it. And so to your metaphor, I think that's pretty accurate.

SPEAKER_01 4:57

Yeah, I do too. I'm just glad to hear that it's not just me. Like you introducing that topic, I was like, geez, I I I've got like imposter syndrome, you know, being here looking at the amount of like business that people are working on, and things are tight. They they definitely are tight. So I'm glad to hear it's not just me, this like you know, underperformer as a broker, but uh yeah, because coming off of last year was great. And then this year, for whatever reason, and I'll I this is the way I've explained it too, is that most retailers are still very interested in Utah. Utah is is on the map for most retailers, but I mean, we've all probably been on lots of tours this year. We're showing lots of space, and they're not killing deals, they're not like turning their back on deals, they're just not getting them through committee, or they're going back through committee a second and a third time and like revising. And I think, you know, I represent a handful of like publicly traded companies, and they have to be very careful because they've got to say to the you know, to the market, we're a growth company. You know, if they say like, hey, we're we're pulling back, yeah, their stock's gonna hit it. It'll take a hit on the stock. So a lot of them are saying, like, we're still a growth company publicly, but to us, they're saying like these are really hard to get done right now. Like we're slow playing it, we're whatever. So it's yeah, it's been really challenging. Although I'm optimistic, I'm starting to see a little bit of an uptick. Um, so gosh, but yeah, the the first part of this year has been dismally slow.

SPEAKER_00 6:23

Well, I actually want to talk about what you just said relative to retailers, but to I guess to finish on the dry pipeline. The funny thing is, like as a company, you know, we're on track to do 2,000 transactions or whatever. I put a post out on X a couple of weeks ago that described where we are and our numbers, and they're for us and really the market, they're record-breaking, they're huge numbers. We're doing a ton of volume, but still you can feel that on the ground talking to everybody. Like deals are a little harder, for sure. Um, pipelines a little drier. However, I do think the last couple of weeks have swung back hard, and I feel like transactions are happening at a higher volume and velocity now. So I'm optimistic, but you have to be optimistic to be a broker, I think. No doubt.

SPEAKER_02 7:08

There, you know, and people people talk about seasonality in residential real estate, how there are these certain times of the year when homes are selling and they're not selling, and and there's really no seasonality in commercial real estate. However, there is seasonality when it comes to brokers, right? And so you talk about you talk about how there's activity right now. That's so funny that part of part of that activity is knowing that when you're you know you're doing a deal, there's there's someone on the other side of that phone or the other side of that email. And we are approaching what what I've experienced to be like the slowest time of year, right?

SPEAKER_00 7:39

Tell me what that is. I know what it is. I summer vacation. Summer vacation. I call it the summer doldrums.

SPEAKER_02 7:45

The summer doldrums, yeah. I mean, it is it's uh as good as things might be for a minute here. I I do see these are challenging times to get deals moved.

SPEAKER_00 7:54

Why is that? Why do we have summer why do why do brokers I mean like I get people go on vacation and stuff, but why every single year do some brokers just say, yeah, I'm out for a couple of months?

SPEAKER_02 8:07

I suffer from this this this problem here where I it doesn't matter where I am, I I have to work. I feel like I feel like if I'm not responding to that email, then the deal's not gonna happen, right? Time kills deals. So you've gotta you've gotta continue to push. So I don't know. I don't know why it is that some people feel really comfortable. Like there are a lot of brokers who have no problem, you know, saying, hey, I'm I'm out for a week or two weeks or whatever, um, not pointing any fingers.

SPEAKER_01 8:34

But uh I think he's pointing his finger at me right now because I've been gone for the last two weeks.

SPEAKER_02 8:38

Actually, pointing a panic. Um but uh but yeah, I I don't know. I don't have the answer really. Because it doesn't make sense.

SPEAKER_01 8:44

I mean, we can we can work from wherever we are, right? Yeah, we can, but I think you know, a lot of a lot of the folks we deal with are nine to five guys that have allocated vacation time, right? Sure. And so our clients. Our clients, yeah, for sure. That's what I meant. So when you know, they have vacation time, and vacation time is sacred to those people, like the people that I I work with. And so when they go on vacation, it's like their cell phone shut down, you know, their emails are are down. Um, and the problem is when we're working on deals, you've got three or four people that touch that deal, right?

SPEAKER_02 9:13

That's true.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

So trying to get all of them in the room at the same time, odds are some someone in the chain is gonna be on vacation during the summer. So things just naturally will slow down.

SPEAKER_02 9:22

Or that real estate committee meeting gets postponed because so and so is out of town, and yeah, just kind of you know what the number one complaint is for of brokers?

SPEAKER_00 9:34

Like across the board, number one complaint.

SPEAKER_02 9:36

The air conditioning upstairs.

SPEAKER_00 9:38

That like clients or or people in the industry say about brokers. Number one complaint.

SPEAKER_02 9:44

Communication.

SPEAKER_00 9:45

They don't return a call. The lowest possible thing that they don't return a call. That's the bar. So if you're young and you're at you know, a university and you're in an MRED program and you want to be a broker, all you need to be is a hard worker who's responsive, and we have a ton of young people here, which is awesome to see. But I mean, that is it. That is the injury level. If you do that, that is 50% a successful person in general.

SPEAKER_01 10:17

No doubt. And I, you know, it's funny because I've I've uh talked at you know at the U, for example, in a lab up there and and uh at a couple of other other venues, and they they've said, like, what is it? What's kind of that secret sauce? And it is really funny because you can point to like really, really good brokers. We have we have a ton of amazing talent here, and we poke fun at Scott Brady, but you know, there are times when I know like a couple years ago, um, like if I woke up at the middle of the night for some reason my brain starts going, and I would send a text or send an email, I'd get a response back from Scott within five minutes at 2:30 in the morning.

SPEAKER_00 10:54

Yeah, it's computer generated. No, no, his were real. His were real.

SPEAKER_01 10:57

But it is amazing that that you know, he kind of broke his his day up in weird working segments. But that guy's interesting. Like, we could probably send him a text right now while we're on the pod, and I guarantee he'd respond, probably within within five minutes. We're gonna do this right. You guys keep talking. So we'll keep going.

SPEAKER_00 11:13

But I there's a there's a saying that I think is what you're right on what you're referring to, which is the busiest humans I know in my life, the most successful people, busiest humans, they are the most responsive. Yeah, paradoxically.

SPEAKER_01 11:25

And you can look at a guy like Andy Moffitt, Lance Pendleton, same thing. I mean, those guys will respond so quickly. Um Preston, you know, I mean, they they just don't they don't let things slide. So that is very true. Yeah, that's a good point.

SPEAKER_00 11:43

Um awesome. Yeah, so the last thing I wanted to w hit was kind of what you were saying earlier um about retailers. I think there's projected to be 8,000 retail national retail closures closures this year. So significant closures, restaurants, the sales of national restaurants are for the most part either flatlining or in some cases they're decreasing. So it just feels like we're seeing a little bit of buyer fatigue, um, shopper fatigue, economy fatigue. There's the K-shaped economy. There's just a lot of things happening right now. And then you have this weird juxtaposition where Texas Roadhouse, for example, is just absolutely crushing it. Yeah. We did a survey, a study recently, and showed the top restaurants in Utah by uh sales, like overall sales. Texas Roadhouse and visits, I think it was. It was visits and sales. Texas Roadhouse was like four of the top ten restaurants in Utah.

SPEAKER_02 12:48

No way. I will be at Texas Roadhouse in well, as soon as we wrap this podcast, because that's where my graduated son wants to eat dinner tonight, right? I mean, it is it's no surprise. It's it's it's Applebee's on steroids. It's the the bread's warm. Yeah, the butter's delicious. How can you go right?

SPEAKER_01 13:09

And I might be catching you off guard on this, but and and people who know me, I've kind of gone on this rant that um that Red Lobster's back. And and I'm serious. Like, have you been to Red Lobster? When's the last time you went to Red Lobster? I'm not a Red Lobster lobster. No, I here's the deal. And I I can speak to this because I had this funny experience where I dropped my wife off at a restaurant and no, no, where she was meeting her friends, and I was like, you know, dropped her off. She was having dinner with her friends, and I turned around, I'm like, I want a steak so bad. I probably shouldn't stay at this restaurant because her friends are there. So I'm like, where can I get a steak? I was in the sugar house area, no joke. I go to I go to Red Lobster.

SPEAKER_00 13:46

I didn't even know they had steak. Okay, I'm gonna be honest, no joke. Stop the pod right now. I swear.

SPEAKER_02 13:51

So you're gonna have solo dinner at Red Lobster.

SPEAKER_01 13:54

Well, you have to understand too. I'm a pure product of the 90s. Everything I do is through the paradigm of like the 90s. You know what I mean? So I roll into Red Lobster. I haven't been there in a long time, but I sit down at the bar by myself, I order a steak, and the steak comes out perfectly cooked. I swear to you, perfectly cooked. The vegetables. But if had I done the lobster, I probably would have. Okay. But the steak comes out perfectly cooked. The mashed potatoes were hot. Okay. You know what it's like to get food when it's like you can tell it's been sitting whatever. It comes out like perfectly prepared. So I eat it and I'm like, this experience was awesome.

SPEAKER_00 14:28

And it was like 999 as he's about to tell us. It was awesome. It was a great experience.

SPEAKER_01 14:33

So the funny thing is, I start like kind of like googling Red Lobster. Well, they have a brand new CEO. He's this young guy, and he is on a mission. He's like, listen, we have tons of brand equity, but I promise you your food is gonna taste good. It's gonna be hot. You'll have awesome customers, like customer experience. And no joke, I'm so I get on the thread of like Red Lobster's Instagram, and there's tons of people that are like, it's back. It's back. He takes a selfie of himself in a red lobster. Yes, I'm onto something.

SPEAKER_02 15:00

I think, I think you may be on to something. I do want to remind all the Red Lobster fans out there, though, that this can turn very quickly because two years ago, Chili's was the darling of this segment. Are you gonna say you don't like chilies? Who doesn't like chilies? Because I I've no one doesn't like chilies.

SPEAKER_00 15:19

I went to Chili's for the first time. Like a couple months ago. It was great. It was great. Had a great meal. And it's inexpensive, unsurprisingly.

SPEAKER_02 15:27

I have a Chili's in a center here in Salt Lake. And um, last time they were up for renewal, which was five years ago, they said, Hey, we're we we can barely make sense of this. Paper costs are up, all our foods, you know, going through Uber Eats or Postmates, whatever. Um, margins are really tight. But they agreed to sign the extension, and about a year into this extension, their sales just skyrocketed. And everywhere you looked, people were talking about how phenomenally on top of things chilies was. Well, they're now closed at that location. So they had their they had their little moment in time, at least as it relates to this space, right? Um, they may still be doing well everywhere else, but something happened here where I and we can talk about this more on this pod or another pod, but we're dealing with a a world where landlords are now pushing rents to the brink, right? Like these these retailers, these restaurants, whether you're QSR, fast food, or just a small family-owned restaurant, you can no longer do the sales volume to justify the rent. Yeah, yeah. Same with retailers. Same with retailers, exactly. And that's what that's what ultimately you know caused this chilies to close. Is there are there are other, in this case it's a bank, but there are other retailers standing in line for high profile space like this. And they can pay the rent.

SPEAKER_00 16:51

I think when I when I started 27 years ago, I was doing deals at $12 a square foot, triple net. I did a little, I think my first deal was a little Caesars.

SPEAKER_02 16:59

Triple nets were two bucks.

SPEAKER_00 17:00

I was a buck fifty. Buck fifty. And I thought to myself, like, what what would be the point at which Little Caesars or a retailer or a restaurant literally like cannot pay the rent? And we went through 15, we went through $20 a square foot, we went through 25, then 30, then we broke 40, 50, now we're breaking 60, and we have, in my opinion, found we found the spot the ceiling. Yeah, for sure. We know that it feels that way.

SPEAKER_01 17:25

I I mean I can I can speak to that today. You know, we we had I had my call with Starbucks today, and we're looking at a um a trade area in Utah County, and you know, we I said, listen, there's there's two available sites. One would be a remodel of an existing building, the rent's gonna be a lot cheaper, the new one would be a ground up build-a-suit. Uh, the problem is the developer who's buying it is buying it for $37 a foot, unimproved. Okay. So a $37 land value with construction cost the way they are, borrowing cost the way they are, those three components right there, he's gonna turn around and tell us that our rent needs to be probably $80 a foot. And Starbucks has hit their limit because they're you know, their their pro forma saying that thing's red. You can't do it. We need the pro forma to be green.

SPEAKER_00 18:12

Pink drinks out the door.

SPEAKER_01 18:13

Totally. And and by the way, anecdotally, I mean, their sales are up. Yeah, finally they turned a corner. This new CEO from Chipotle is doing a great job, and we're seeing sales in Utah um across the board hitting levels that we that we've never hit. So it's it's good. But there is that limit. They're just saying we can't do this, we can't keep paying those rents.

SPEAKER_00 18:32

I agree with you 100%. Why is Starbucks seeing such great success in Utah?

SPEAKER_01 18:40

Gosh, I could answer that a couple of different ways. I'd love to say it's because site selection has been super. Incredible. It's a period. You know, just I mean, yeah, unlike anything anyone's ever seen, the site selection side. They're just yeah. Can we pay you 12%? Yeah. You know, I actually there is a little bit of truth to that because Starbucks, for a long time, with the culture here in Utah, um, you know, and the and the Mormon church, uh, they they were not a believer in the market. And then we had a store development manager, store development manager several years ago, who came in and said, Listen, I I think it it we can't be afraid to go after the right real estate, which means we got to step up and pay. And I think if we land in the right real estate, the sales will come. And we proved that out maybe 12, 13, 14 years ago. And so now we do compete. We we try to go after the best real estate and the sales, you know, uh follow.

SPEAKER_00 19:34

And there's more coffee competition than there's ever been in Utah. No doubt. And so I think you're right there. I think you're seeing more net customers, net new customers than ever before in Utah for you know, whatever reasons that we don't how aren't qualified to touch on in this podcast. Yeah, probably not.

SPEAKER_02 19:51

I should probably stay away from that. What what occupancy cost is Starbucks comfortable with when they look at sales?

SPEAKER_01 19:57

You know, they're they're very similar to to everybody else. I mean, if we can stay around eight percent, that's that's a good deal. You know, we will flirt with 12% for the right deal, but when you start getting, you know, above 10%, um, that PL is not gonna look good, or Proforma's not gonna look good. Um, it's really tough to comp, you know. So, so yeah, I mean, if we can get there at 8%, that's that's good.

SPEAKER_02 20:21

That's what scares me is I think a lot of concepts are, you know, whether it's private equity or some for some other reason they feel like they've got to continue to grow. And so they decide, okay, well, the the deals, the deals are more expensive now, so we'll just have to adjust you know our comfort level, right? So then you start seeing these retailers move their occupancy cost to 10, 12, 14 percent of gross sales. And if there's any dip at all, just wiped out, doors are closed.

SPEAKER_01 20:44

Yeah, yeah, because for for every percentage point of gross occupancy cost that they add, that's a subtraction of profit, right? Right. And and that that's that's the problem. So and and everything is so expensive, as we know. Yeah, right. There's exactly too many elements that are just on their uh on their PL, man, labor costs, you know, cost of goods, everything is up, everything's up.

SPEAKER_00 21:08

So and it's getting in the for the most part passed on to consumer, and that's that's just where we are. That's the fatigue point that we're at right now. When I go to Chipotle, which traditionally I've I'm a huge uh Chipotle lover, and my son is too. We went there and it was like five bucks, then it was eight bucks, then it was twelve bucks, and I went there over the weekend and it was like 17 or 18 bucks. And it's the same size, maybe even smaller portions. Yeah. And that's just the runaway inflation and the deal costs and the occupancy costs and the food costs, everything is hitting at the same time. Retailers are fatigued, restaurants are fatigued, consumers are fatigued, and we're stuck in a K economy right now where some people don't care and they just keep buying it, and the vast majority of us just can't afford it, literally. cannot afford it anymore.

SPEAKER_02 22:01

Did you see that article that said you can ask for more meat?

SPEAKER_00 22:04

No.

SPEAKER_02 22:05

Can't I think there's backlash. I think people are going to Chipotle seeing smaller sizes, there's smaller, smaller like you know meat. I can just be like run that back. They're saying you can just ask for more. Well have I don't know I've never done it. I'll try it. Try it.

SPEAKER_00 22:21

I'll try it. I'll report it.

SPEAKER_02 22:22

Portions are smaller, but you can ask for more. Now they may look at you like you're crazy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:27

Like how dare you steal money from us? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:29

I'll try it.

SPEAKER_01 22:30

I know that you warned me about like using names, so if we have to edit this out I will. But um you know where we don't see a lot of value anymore is at Taco Bell. Have you guys gone through Taco Bell at all lately?

SPEAKER_00 22:42

I can honestly say I have not.

SPEAKER_01 22:43

Okay, well I have a daughter unfortunately sad to admit it. She loves Taco Bell. It's like her guilty pleasure.

SPEAKER_00 22:47

So yeah Taco Bell's good.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

Heck yeah again product of the 90s. We love it. So for a restaurant without a kitchen they are crushing it. But the funny thing is you said like a $17 lunch at Chipotle. It's almost the same at Taco Bell now. Is it really wild? I swear it's it's wild.

SPEAKER_00 23:05

So guys that's why In N Out Burger is the greatest burger in the world.

SPEAKER_01 23:10

And Costco. I think they actually just the buck fifty lunch man.

SPEAKER_00 23:13

I think In N Out just raised their price here in Utah. It was $775 for the number one combo now I think it's like nine bucks or something but still but to try to find a lunch under 10 bucks it's tough.

SPEAKER_02 23:23

Yeah. Do you guys remember when um B Rus and Michael Jordan played one-on-one at UVU?

SPEAKER_00 23:29

Yeah that was one of the greatest incredible right I was one of the greatest performances home skill it didn't show up. What was that like uh 2005 or something?

SPEAKER_02 23:37

It's not important. Yes. I think it was around that time. Yes. And do you remember the person who was responsible for for coordinating that?

SPEAKER_00 23:43

Yes I do. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 23:45

So so that individual also had plans for a 450 foot Frank Geary design Travers mounted. Yes. At the time it was are we staying Travers Brandt Anderson Brandt Anderson and and in front of this hotel was going to be a wakeboard park. I remember that and do you like that was the coolest idea I mean I don't think anyone thought it was actually going to happen other than maybe Brandt and maybe Frank Geary.

SPEAKER_00 24:13

Yeah. But as long as the checks started clearing he was there.

SPEAKER_02 24:17

Every time I drive down I-15 and I see that vacant plot you lament at what could have been it could still happen.

SPEAKER_01 24:24

It could still happen. Well here's my question does who owns that does Brandt own it I I don't know if you're going to remember they had like renderings of the building they had renderings of the building and it was supposed to be the tallest building in the state of Utah the the Burj Khalifa of Utah County.

SPEAKER_00 24:39

I think the yes I think it's owned by X dev now. Yeah all right well then they're own Billy yeah they need to figure this out guys maybe they maybe they'll resurrect 70 foot tower with a wakeboard park surfing now it's probably surfing surfing yeah wakeboarding I think those guys are those guys are no more wakeboards anymore right I don't think so it's too painful.

SPEAKER_01 24:58

Yeah those I was just going to say those guys are big uh you know wakeboard or surfing enthusiast lake pal guys so maybe they'll resurrect that idea of doing the I'd like to see that happen.

SPEAKER_02 25:08

And uh and and while I was thinking about that I thought about all the congestion that's happening in the north end of Utah County and and how they're now um adding a freeway right that so so to get out to Saratogan Eagle Mountain we now have a freeway or it's under construction now supposedly saving the residents of Saratoga and Eagle Mountain 12 minutes per trip right so there was a state legislator who stood or something someone stood and said hey you know what are you going to do with the extra 24 minutes and it made me think a lot about how what I would do is just like a really deep scroll. It's gonna hurt our real deep doom scroll for 24 minutes. I'm not gonna I wouldn't spend that time with my family or with my kids or my wife why would you do that? It's brain rot yeah it would be more about like how many short form videos could I watch right but there are other people who would actually benefit from the 24 or like Netflix.

SPEAKER_01 26:01

You know what there was actually there was a book written by I think is it Thomas Friedman the economist called Thank You for Being Late.

SPEAKER_00 26:08

Why is he trying to interject like did you guys read? That was a little bit of a passive aggressive that was a flex.

SPEAKER_01 26:13

Is this on Netflix I it's on Netflix okay I'll watch I'll watch no but it's that same thing it's like about saving time. Yeah like how you know and that's when you have time to think I think you just go brain rot and watch short form videos. You think that about me?

SPEAKER_00 26:28

You just admitted it actually Utah County has been has been under construction since like 1973. We can go earlier yeah and it's a little I-15's better ish now but but yeah I mean obviously it's under construction because it's one of the highest growth if not the highest growth county in Utah and so it's just incredible amount of massive growth but man living out in Saratoga Springs or Eagle Mountain right now you got to feel for those people that are trying to get back and forth.

SPEAKER_02 26:54

There is genuinely only one area in Utah where I can get lost and it's right there. If I exit that Lehigh exit I'm traveling southbound. Yeah I have no idea where I am yeah that's a tough one there's one road that goes to Thanksgiving point there's another one that connects to I-15 there's another one that if I guess if maybe I went to Thanksgiving point but now I'm going to Saratoga I tip I literally did this last week and I got on the freeway off the freeway on the freeway off the freeway completely lost I'm almost 50 years old and I've been in Utah my entire life there is so much going on there.

SPEAKER_00 27:29

Have you ever thought that maybe they want it that way though they want you to be confused they don't want you to come back happening or they just they want to trap you like a casino.

SPEAKER_01 27:36

They'll let you in but you can't get out feels that way.

SPEAKER_00 27:39

I know all about casinos I'm a blackjack dealer the other you have to buy like an MLM product or something like what is exactly you end up at Young Living like what happened to Troy I don't know last time I saw him he was in sales all Utah County roads lead to MLM.

SPEAKER_01 27:55

Yes they they do no you know what having said that if I can touch on the two oh or the uh 2100 north yeah you know yeah um amazing corridor and what they've done so far is is awesome and I look at that and I'm like man that is fertile ground for uh retail development you know you've got this awesome like traffic pattern you've got like amazing housing density tons of growth and now you taught UDOT's gonna do this big overpass like this big byway kind of commuter lane and uh unfortunately I think it's gonna kill all those prospective deals because we went through this down at ICSC last week and started looking at how you would access a specific site and it was like taking more left hand turns than you know than the Padres bullpen it was just like so many lefts. I was like I I can't figure this thing out it's so weird. Well we have an an example of this with Timpanogas Highway right you exactly there's there's the local traffic and then there's the the commuter lane right and I mean the commuter lane has five times the traffic of the other and once you're on it you can't get off it no and that's exactly what's going to happen with the that 2100 but it's a shame because how do you strike that balance right of like protecting the commuter and congestion all that kind of stuff but then the city intervening saying hold on we need these amenities we need these like yeah we need these restaurants we need the services the daily needs that that stuff needs to be accomplished but man if you can't get to them I mean that that's a that's a terrible thing for the retailer.

SPEAKER_00 29:25

Yeah and they're just trying to get ahead of the massive growth that they're everywhere everywhere in Utah is trying to get ahead of the massive growth that's happening. Right? Yeah Utah County being a great example of that Washington County is another incredible example. Davis County like everywhere in Utah is essentially just growing like crazy and it's anecdotal but I just feel like every time I get in my car to go somewhere if it's eleven o'clock in the morning or it's two o'clock in the afternoon or it's eight o'clock at night it's just traffic but we don't realize how good we have it right I mean we've got UDOT's getting ahead of this growth.

SPEAKER_02 29:58

Totally they we have room for this additional infrastructure. Yeah when you go to other other parts of of the United States where I mean traffic is just a it's it's part of life. Yeah. I mean significant traffic at all hours of the day is it's part of life.

SPEAKER_01 30:11

Yeah two points on that yeah I mean you know UDOT has done a wonderful job Mountain View Corridor, you know, the fact that they procured all the land and that they can grow inward rather than condemning outward and like tearing down houses and stuff. So for the future growth, you know, we have national tenants that come in town and they're like man this is genius. So this is two lanes going in both directions now. Eventually it's going to be six lanes and they don't have to procure any more land. So the foresight in in their planning and development is really really smart. They learned their lesson with Bangor for sure. And they you know they've remedied banger to in to a to a large extent but the other thing is when you were saying that it's like I've said this before we live in a big city now. Totally we just do. I mean there our population is huge.

SPEAKER_00 30:51

Yeah because the pop of of Wasatch front is what three and a half million are we saying yeah plus you know so on I-15 that's why I mean it's it's just congestion everywhere yeah Canyon's congested downtown congested Utah County crazy it's just crazy yeah we are seeing the byproduct of all of the great attributes that Utah has and it's been a secret for a long time and it ain't a secret anymore. It's that's true.

SPEAKER_01 31:18

And we do have geographical constraints right we all live in a valley right you got mountains on one side a lake on the other like we just have these geographic constraints there's a huge hole up in the mountain there.

SPEAKER_00 31:28

Think how many apartments we could build in that hole they're not even mining right now it could just be hundreds of thousands of apartments.

SPEAKER_01 31:35

Some developers will think of that but it is crazy and that's why that's why things are so expensive here too. I mean our housing has just gone crazy because we have been discovered we're on the map um people want to live here well where do you go we have geographic scarcity right like you just we we're running out of land and so we've seen these land values and property values just go through the roof. I mean our our houses are as expensive as they are in California. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 32:01

Yeah minus the beach and MJ pushed off that's that's I just wanted I want to go back to the real topic here which is the the B Rus MJ one-on-one but he pushed off he pushed off he did push off and by the way didn't didn't we just discover that the Delta Center's uh Wi-Fi password that's right that's right is Jordan pushed off yes no way yeah go go to the Delta Center get on the Wi-Fi the password is Jordan pushed off because that's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 32:27

Yeah that's good stuff yeah it's a true story I watched it live it was brutal yeah it was tore everybody's heart out anyway that's another that's a topic for another day or we can talk about it now if you want Jake what do you got gosh I don't know I mean you know we talked about a lot of things we were going to chop it up and uh whenever I'm sitting with like my son and his buddies they want to chop up everything right so um one of the things that just you know we're sitting here with these hockey jerseys behind us and it just kind of made me think about the the mammoth and again the growth of our state and the fact that we've got an NHL team here that's got all this excitement around it. You know the Jazz are allegedly done rebuilding and now we're now we're gonna be competitive again and we're talking about getting major league baseball here. Yeah which is awesome. It's looking stronger and stronger. Yeah which looks looks really cool. What do they call that thing the the winter classic the winter classic is coming dice that's gonna be killer that's amazing because I do one game a year.

SPEAKER_00 33:24

Tickets will be available now for that I bought yeah I bought like six or seven tickets. Of course it was six seven I don't yeah good point. Six seven why would you buy seven I don't know how I got excited and I bought it and then I realized the stadium's like 6000 people so I probably bought too soon but you know and how how are the prices?

SPEAKER_01 33:42

Were they like reasonable?

SPEAKER_00 33:43

It didn't feel good didn't feel good world World Cup pricing or I don't know what world cup pricing is but I I think I paid like 400 bucks per ticket or something. Yeah I mean it I'm excited about it. It's gonna be awesome too dad doesn't like to sit if he can't touch the boards and if you know that about Chad so he's a rich you know what I mean with the best those are good no they're not like they're like the funny thing is about I've never been to a winter classic so I don't know but if you look at the map of it yeah I mean you have this tiny little rink. It's crazy and then you're the first row of seating at least the way I understand it doesn't start for like 50 yards. Because you're like below the rink if you're still on the field.

SPEAKER_01 34:20

I wondered are they going to put like seats up to the glasses like floor seats so to speak?

SPEAKER_00 34:25

I don't think you can because you have to have it staggered so it's not a good view I know it's it's weird.

SPEAKER_01 34:30

I don't know how they'll pull that off or do they kind of push it to like one you know side like the south side or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 34:36

Yeah I don't hey I'm a vibe fan for this thing. I'm just here for the experience I'm not here to critique but I love it.

SPEAKER_01 34:41

It's so awesome. But it's jan isn't it uh December 31st like New Year's Eve.

SPEAKER_00 34:46

So it'll be 72 degrees yeah yeah it'll be perfect we won't have no winter no snow 70 people be wearing tank toks tank tops and whatever. Yeah that's gonna be amazing though.

SPEAKER_01 34:56

But uh very cool so I'm excited about that.

SPEAKER_00 34:58

Sorry what were you saying though?

SPEAKER_01 35:00

No just that I was like you know you asked me what's on my mind and I'm like you know our our mammoth dude I'm so I'm so stoked for those guys it's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 35:08

Have you guys driven by the Delta Center in the last couple days or weeks the the the when the when the lights turned off after that last golden knights loss the the bulldozers and the construction crews arrived I mean that they they've been going crazy there. They're so fast on that it is unbelievable how quickly and efficiently they get stuff done and what are they doing right now? So you've got a VIP parking on the southwest corner and then I don't know they may be doing something to the to the the facade as well I I'm I'm not sure what that facade's beautiful from 1991 yeah or 90 or whatever it was.

SPEAKER_01 35:46

But surprisingly it still does look pretty good.

SPEAKER_00 35:48

Yeah for like a post-industrial Soviet era yeah like a German yeah exactly peptides bro peptides I had a guy the other day I was somehow the wolverine stack anyone that's doing peptides has to tell you peptides they have to tell you about peptides Peter Black man I it's nonstop he sent me probably 50 like posts the other day he's the goat but like somebody was telling me about a wolverine stack or wolves and the whole time I was looking at the person and I was thinking what in the world are you talking about dude it's a wolverine stack?

SPEAKER_01 36:22

The guy's like 140 pounds five foot seven what the heck is a wolverine stack you know what's weird though so I heard this the other day that that there are in the medical community they think that the the first person to live to be 150 years old is alive today I don't want to live to 150 I don't either because I think that quality of life's gonna be terrible to live to be 100 no same here.

SPEAKER_00 36:45

Same here what are you gonna be slinging deals until you're like 100 can't we just be happy dying at age two I'm into that with heart congestion and diabetes true but you were you were touching on on the Delta Center and this like renovation and what Ryan Smith is doing and I mean that guy has been such an ambassador for Utah it's it's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 37:07

I love what he's doing um but it I I I would love to see him kind of fold in the gateway you know as part of his as part of this kind of revamp of uh the sports whatever what are you call what does he call that what is he branding that thing but it's basically like a sports so the entertainment corridor the entertainment corridor yeah it connects City Creek to the Delta Center. So everything east of the Delta Center but we already have this like amazing facility west yeah in the gateway right I do the leasing on it is over a million square feet and it's next door to the Delta Center.

SPEAKER_02 37:41

It feels as though and I I'm not saying that this this is this is the case but it feels as though the Delta Center is is almost posturing itself to face northeast and and kind of forgetting about the fact that we've got this vibrant retail center adjacent to it to the west. So I'm with you. I'd love to see some type of connectivity I mean they're they're they're basically creating a a walkway between the um west quarters and and and the Delta center I mean that that's going to be connected you've got um that Japantown area you've got you know what what the north portion of the Delta or the uh salt palace it'll all be re you know redesigned and I mean we've all we've all seen the renderings but no one's talking about the gateway I'd love to see the gateway be part of that conversation I mean first of all you you guys took the gateway which when Vestar bought it was for all intent and purpose a distressed asset.

SPEAKER_00 38:36

It was in a tough place. And you guys took it I don't know what the vacancy was but you literally leased it all the way up to near a hundred percent and I kind of feel like it if you haven't been to the gateway recently like you should go check it out because it'll blow your mind. It's totally different than what your perception of it might be. And I think it kind of found its place in the world. And I think if they're doing this incredible um you know entertainment area that's gonna be high price it's gonna have a ton of cool tenants cool vibe but Gateway also has its own thing where it could be or it is the low cost provider in the trader.

SPEAKER_01 39:15

Yeah. But still has like a super cool vibe. Yeah. Because it's it it it is developing its own identity again which I think is really really cool. Because it went through a period of time where it was like what is its identity you know it wants but I I have such nostalgic feelings towards gateway. I love it. I mean my first you know real estate job in uh commercial real estate was with LoveSack and that's where they opened their very first store right before the Olympics in 2002 on the bridge right at the bridge on the bridge right at the bridge of gateway. So Sean Nelson talks about that and it's phenomenal man he's got like the coolest kind of you know narrative that goes along with the gateway and how he landed that deal and grew that retail yeah retail concept and coincidentally I'm I'm now back representing LoveSack.

SPEAKER_02 39:59

So here I am so that's why that's 20 years late to do the podcast that was a plug we have a space over the bridge that we could make a bit we should talk about it.

SPEAKER_00 40:08

All right let's do it wow talk about full circle wow exactly the infinity loop there's no there's no there's no dry pipeline in this in this building brother there's LoveSack is like they sell furniture now right it used to just be the sack thing and then that kind of man it's yeah very progressive in fact if if you've been into one of their stores their their stuff is is really cool.

SPEAKER_01 40:30

It's like revolution let's not make this into an advertisement I know I should come but it is cool it's very revolutionary not cheap it's not inexpensive it's it's like you know it's it's expensive stuff but it's great. It's really cool. And they are morphing into other kind of soft goods that they're gonna roll out in the next little while and stuff. So it should be pretty cool. They're gonna sell essential oils also yeah I think they're doing a collab they're doing a collab with uh you know one of the MLMs down in Utah County I love it.

SPEAKER_00 40:55

I think that's a good collab pretty sure and uh I got to get to Texas Roadhouse guys oh he's got to go this guy's gotta go so hungry yeah this has been uh this has been a ton of fun and uh we will figure out what the name of this pod is or we will put this in the dustbin of history and we will never we will act like this never happened but it's been a lot of fun and uh I think we'll do it again.

SPEAKER_01 41:19

Yeah you guys are legends.

SPEAKER_00 41:20

Thanks for having me on thank you guys until the next see you everybody all right chopping it up