Becoming CREDA

We are honored that we could be part of announcing NAIOP name change to CREDA, here on The Mountain West Podcast. Chad Moore sits down with CREDA Board Member and Senior Managing Director for Newmark Mountain West, Andy Moffitt, President of the Utah Chapter of CREDA (NAIOP) Braden Moore, and Chair of the Public Affairs and Legislative Committee for CREDA (NAIOP) Stuart Clason.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

So it really provides a platform to understand each part of the deal, how you can better and be more efficient in your part of the deal to get it done. Welcome to the Mountain West Podcast.

SPEAKER_05 0:14

Welcome everybody to the pod. This week we have a really interesting podcast, and in a lot of ways, it's kind of an announcement, so it's going to be pretty exciting. But we have three amazing guests on today. We have, in no particular order, Braden Moore, who is with Big D Construction, and he also is the newly announced president of NAOP. We have Andy Moffat, who's with Newmark Mountain West, and he's also a board member of NAOP. And then a man who needs no introduction, Stuart Clayson, who is the I gotta say these things right, the CRE political action committee chair for NAP, but that's just a small part of what you do.

SPEAKER_04 0:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:00

You do so much more. You're the Swiss Army knife. If somebody needs something, you do it. All things political. Did I describe that right? Sure. Okay, perfect. Perfect. You nailed it, Chad. Let's start with you, Stuart. Give us a quick rundown of what you're doing just outside of NAOP and for NAOP.

SPEAKER_04 1:17

Yeah, well, I'll if if I may, I I'll chime in for NAOP. I was asked to be on the board four years ago. Um, and it's been really exciting. I have been the chair of the public affairs and legislative committee for NAOP. Um, and Braden can talk more about our board structure. And through that, we founded two years ago the first ever commercial real estate political action committee, which you which you just said I'm the chair of. And that came out of a recognized need of a kind of a growing lack of appreciation for commercial real estate on the stake and local level, which I think all four of us will agree that that is something we've seen grow through all of our time and careers here. And then what I do on a private day, um, my partner and I really focus on blending public and private capital around projects that aren't straight down the middle of the fairway that are a bit more complicated. It might be an entitlement issue, it might be kind of filling something in a capital stack, understanding how a multifamily project, if you incorporate like the right kinds of things that that a particular municipality or the state of Utah would like to see, you can get a public participation so you can go vertical.

SPEAKER_05 2:24

Which I think a lot of people don't think about that and how valuable that is. And I mean it's just a little bit off of the radar for most people, but man, is it a valuable asset that you guys provide? Yeah, I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_04 2:36

And I think we're seeing a bigger need now than we've ever with kind of the way debt and equity are working on projects. There it's just harder. I think all three of you guys would agree with that. So that's what I do. I love it.

SPEAKER_05 2:48

Yeah, uh Andy.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

Good sir. Hello. Pleasure to be here.

SPEAKER_05 2:53

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 2:54

Yeah, Andy Moffitt, Newmark Mountain West. Um, going on close to 20 years in the brokerage business. Been riding.

SPEAKER_05 3:03

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 3:04

Somebody need to say it. Been riding shotgun with Chad here for 15 years, just celebrated uh last week. That's crazy. So yeah, it happened fast. But uh yeah, I'm new to Naop this year. Um Braden called me up and asked if I'd be willing to step in and help uh on the sponsorship side. So I'm excited about what we're gonna bring to the table there. And uh yeah, my day-to-day um broker here, retail specific and focused, spent a lot of time working on projects like Foothill Village, the Dasana Partners has been uh transitioning up on the east bench of Salt Lake, uh working with Lincoln and Centennial, Colmena and Wadsworth on the prison redevelopment project out in Draper, which has been an interesting uh three-year challenge as we're uh still have a few years ahead of us.

SPEAKER_05 3:51

But you don't need to brag about things, just you're just working on some of the biggest projects. Working on some of those projects.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

Yeah. But no, all in all, I'm I've I've been um I'm excited to be working with NAOP. I've done more probably for NAOP on the retail side of things as a panel member or speaker over the last five years. And so um I'm excited for the direction and what's to come for uh for NAOP, and I'm excited to be helping support that effort.

SPEAKER_05 4:17

Give it to us, Braden.

SPEAKER_00 4:19

Yeah, I'm just here to hang out with you guys. I love her.

SPEAKER_05 4:21

Yeah. The after party. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:25

No, yeah, I'm uh obviously with, like you said, with Big D Construction, been there uh about 18 years. So um vice president of our Salt Lake office. Um I mostly handle the verticals of warehouse distribution and advanced manufacturing, uh data centers, um, and some of our general commercial type buildings. So uh project executive and and vice president of kind of those verticals. Um, as you know, big D's, you know, 19 19 states, Minnesota West and Big D's big kind of throughout the the Western United States. So um it's been really cool. And NAOP was a huge part of like my growth in that industry, just getting able to meet fine folks like yourselves, um, being able to be mentored, even though some people probably didn't know they were mentoring me, but uh you know, guys like Kyle Roberts, um, who I've been friends with and has been a mentor of mine for a long time.

SPEAKER_05 5:16

That's a good one.

SPEAKER_00 5:17

Um, and and that's really what Naop brought for me, right, originally was just the ecosystem of seeing a different point of view. Meaning I'm in construction every day, right? We gotta get to the numbers, we've got to make sure the budget works, we've got to make sure that the the performer works. But when you are not looking at it from the lens of the developer or the real estate professional or the city, right, you're you're gonna miss some things. Um, and really to bring value to our customers, I found out quickly that I really want to know the viewpoint of all these different aspects of a deal, right? And that's really what Naop gave me is that opportunity to find those folks and seek them out and prick their brain and ask as many questions as I could. So it gave me a lot to my career. Um, and I want to I wanted to be able to, you know, now 19 years in my career, I wanted to be able to say, hey, I see some of the things that we could do even better and and be a part of that.

SPEAKER_05 6:13

Yeah, that's great. So as I mentioned at the beginning of the episode, this is a special episode, and everyone's probably thinking, why are they saying NAOP so many times?

SPEAKER_00 6:22

And what the heck is it?

SPEAKER_05 6:23

What the heck is it? And so I I won't spoil it for you. You can you can you can say it, but I guess my first question is, and I'm honestly, I'm probably as uneducated on this topic as as anybody listening, but what is NAOP? I've been doing this for 28 years, and I still, it's an acronym. I have no idea what it stands for.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

Yeah, it's it's like many associations. Once you're in the ecosystem, it means so much to what you do, right? Um, certainly many succeed without being in the ecosystem, but um, yeah, so NAOP originally started in the 1960s. Um, I think it was nine developers of industrial products that said, hey, we have some commonalities of issues that we're going through. And I want to hear about your issues and um how we can learn from one another. And so they started actually at the time it was uh an AIP, uh, which was National Association of Industrial Product. And then about 10 years later, when they had the big office boom in the 70s, they decided, well, let's let's add office to this acronym. Um and over time it just became, like I said, a place where real estate professionals and whatever part of the deal you're in, um, could kind of come together and learn from one another and and be more efficient in the deal process. Um now, obviously, like the 60s to the 70s, they changed the acronym and added office, right? Because that was important. Well, we're at a point now where it doesn't make a lot of sense to be we have data centers, we have power, we have you know retail, which is long overdue. I'm getting it in there.

SPEAKER_05 7:56

I've been to like a bunch of naop events over the years, but I always feel like I'm unwanted because I'm like, where's the R?

SPEAKER_00 8:02

Where's the R in this?

SPEAKER_05 8:03

N-A-I-O-P-R something.

SPEAKER_04 8:05

But I I think Braden, I think it's safe to say that it is it is one of the premier associations for commercial real estate.

SPEAKER_00 8:11

For sure. And what a lot of people don't understand that there's 55 chapters in the United States. So this isn't like uh Utah local, hey, we're gonna do this together or just a few chapters. It's 55 chapters, it's the largest um real estate association in the United States.

SPEAKER_05 8:28

Um, it's robust in Utah too.

SPEAKER_00 8:31

It is, yep. Um, some of the the you know most successful and most impactful developers and real estate professionals have participated in this for years, right? Years and years. And so, yeah, it was to came a time now where, and I totally agree, there was some, you know, discussion, a lot of discussion, especially nationally. Um, they're based in Virginia, the corporate office. Uh is this is this a good thing to do? Is it change a name? Changing a name's hard, right? As you know, but it had they had to bring some more inclusivity on and really more progressive thinking on. We're representing a whole industry, and that's it's changing so rapidly that we can't, no one knows what naop means, right? Not no one, but if you haven't been in it, you don't really know what it means. And if you do know what it means, then like how do I fit in? And so changing the name is the big announcement to Krita is is what is happening July 1st.

SPEAKER_05 9:26

So when this comes out, you come in as the president and immediately you just change everything.

SPEAKER_00 9:32

Let's change this up.

SPEAKER_05 9:33

I will be the president on one condition. The name must change.

SPEAKER_00 9:36

Yeah, no, yeah. Uh there was would you like to be president, which you know would I like to sign up for something? Uh sure. I can put my schedule. But yeah, and then a name change.

SPEAKER_05 9:48

So it's a big, it's a big task, but uh so officially July 1st, the name will change from NAOP to Creeta.

SPEAKER_00 9:55

Which stands for Commercial Real Estate Development Association.

SPEAKER_05 9:59

Wow, okay, much cleaner. Yeah, I like that.

SPEAKER_04 10:02

And I'll chime in if you think about commercial real estate in the United States, collectively, we're the largest contributor to national GDP as well as the largest employer. If you take in contractors, brokers, attorneys, everything. I I like to say, Chad, if we don't do our job in commercial real estate, there is no economy. Whether it's a 5,000 square foot nail salon or a million square foot Amazon fulfillment center. If we don't acquire, entitle, uh build out infrastructure, all the things, whether it's big D or whether it's you guys, we don't really know what I do, but if if I if we don't do our job, we can't even talk about economic development.

SPEAKER_05 10:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:43

Commercial real estate is the economy.

SPEAKER_05 10:45

It really is. Yeah, it's it's such a funny industry because there are relatively few people in commercial real estate in the industry, developers, contractors, consultants, everything. And yet it has this enormous outsized impact, disproportionate impact on the economy. And I I read something recently that uh there was like sixty trillion dollars worth of commercial real estate in North America. So I mean it's just an enormous, enormous industry.

SPEAKER_00 11:13

Yeah, yeah, enormous. And this it gives a platform, obviously, for advocacy, which we're huge on. I mean, we have three kind of prongs advocacy, education, um, and networking, right? And that ecosystem is important because they kind of feed on each other, right? Um, if you're not networking, you really don't know the issues that everyone's dealing with. Going back to my original why I loved the association was I can't know what Stu's dealing with on the entitlement side unless I get into his brain a little bit, right? And so it really provides a platform to understand each part of the deal, um, how you can better and be more efficient in your part of the deal to get it done. Um, and most importantly, in my in my mind, is um being able to as a whole go to the whether it's our legislature or I was able to go to DC with Stu last year. Um, and I don't know if we just change his name to the Stuart Clausen, like the Ohio State, because it was amazing, and he'll never say this about himself, but it was amazing to see the doors that are open for congressmen and senators and uh many other people um to be able to just have that voice of saying, hey, we know what the issues are, because you know, you you guys are on these deals all the time. They're just they don't get to see the context of what is stopping deals from happening, right? Because it doesn't go far enough for them to even know that it's not happening because of this or this, right? And so to have that voice as an industry as a whole is huge.

SPEAKER_05 12:43

Yeah. What do you what's the mission? Maybe not the mission, but what what are you trying to accomplish with Krita this year or the next couple of years in Utah specifically?

SPEAKER_00 12:55

Yeah, in Utah, I think it's uh, you know, we have an opportunity to, as we're changing it to Krita, right, to be more clear with what our mission is, right? To advocate, to educate, and to network together, right? That that really is our mission. So now we have an opportunity to make that a little more clear for everyone, um, to get more eyes on it, which is why we're here today. Thank you very much. Um, and and be able to attack the issues that are stopping development from happening, especially when we have such a changing um economy. I mean, there's there's so many things that are changing now with many verticals, right, within real estate. And so we want to get ahead of those and make sure that our our policymakers are supporting our industry. Like you said, I mean it's it's the largest contributor to our to our GDP. So let's make sure we have a voice in the right spot.

SPEAKER_04 13:43

And by being organized, Chad, the the biggest issue we're facing right now is power. Yeah. And you know, when you if you were a developer, that was not anything you had to worry about. And now it's universal across the board.

SPEAKER_05 13:57

Yeah, no one ten years ago, five years ago, no one ever said the word. Yeah, we're water really 10 years ago.

SPEAKER_04 14:05

And so we have, but if if we're gonna do our job, we have to have at least a cursory knowledge, understanding, and knowledge of how those work and who to talk to so that we can do our job.

SPEAKER_05 14:16

Yeah, I've had more conversations in the last 12 months, six months about data centers. I'm a I'm a retail guy, that's my background. But I've had more conversations about you know, the big data center that they're talking about up in Box Elder County and power and water, and what are you guys doing, or what aren't you doing? It's interesting. Yeah, and you hear more and more the intersection of like we've already talked about, commercial real estate and politics. And it is it is more distinct than it's ever been before, in at least in my career.

SPEAKER_00 14:48

Yeah, and we we need to to make sure that we're informed with what one another is doing, right? You can't you're right, you can't have one of these conversations without data center or power coming up now, right? Um, they weren't represented in AOP, they weren't gonna come to the table and say, Oh, this is for me too. So that gives an opportunity. And um, you know, I when I started thinking, okay, uh business sign this, you know, I've I've never been good at doing anything alone, right? I go to the brightest mind. So that's when I thought of of Andy, um, because he is so well connected and knows so many in the industry, and he's he's been doing this experienced. I'm not gonna say old because you're not old. Thank you. Yeah, experienced. Um obviously Andy was important to for me to get on the board um because there is a lot that I think that we can get done with this. So there's so many misnomers um with development, right? Always been that way, yeah. But but especially now, and if we can represent the the industry as a whole and make sure that we're giving facts instead of opinions of facts, then that's important.

SPEAKER_01 15:49

And I I I think an interesting piece to that, Chad, is if you look back at where we were at 15, 20 years ago, ICSC was a dominating figure and still is, plays a role today. Yeah, less than that. But it's it's certainly different than what it used to be. Yeah. And so we used to plan our year around ICSC Western, ICSC monorail events. Yeah. For sure. Four events, yeah. And they were, you know, and and and even on the local side, you know, I think the last time we had a local event was like 2018. Yeah. Right. So it's it's completely disappeared from the local landscape. And my journey to NAOP really started with um the next gen ICSC board, which I participated in when I was early on in my career, because I wanted a networking component to my life. Um, and then, you know, as that kind of diminished or distinguished here in Utah, I looked at, okay, where do we go next? And so NAOP um, you know, has always missed the letter R. It doesn't have a presence, but that's not the only thing it's missing in the name. It also doesn't include multifamily. And so you look at the intersection of development today where it's occurring in urban areas, you have these mixed-use environments with retail and multifamily. And so I've I've really been kind of at the forefront of looking at those environments, understanding how retail can live in those areas and how do we make it successful. And so I've taken an active role in NAOP to try to push that forward and help drive that because I think it adds a lot of value to the current landscape of development.

SPEAKER_05 17:16

Speaking of industry events, so what does Creeta put on in the state of Utah on an annual basis? Or what will you guys be planning?

SPEAKER_00 17:24

Yeah, so um yearly we have our symposium. I don't know if you even had an opportunity to be to that before.

SPEAKER_05 17:30

I have, but but tell us about it, just for those that are listening that haven't.

SPEAKER_00 17:34

Sure. Symposiums are really, I mean, our kind of signature um educational event. Um kind of goes to all three prongs of of our mission statement. Uh, but you know, there's some panels of most incredible. We've had uh panels of developers talking about mixed-use projects, panels of developers talking about multifamily retail. Um, this last one we had a mission critical panel as well. Yeah, that was great.

SPEAKER_04 17:59

Um and so actually Braden put that together because Big D is the contractor on that. And going back to powered land, Nova data centers were one of the first in the country. They're definitely the first here to go solve for their own power needs, and they're building their own power, they've built their own power generation over in West Jordan.

SPEAKER_00 18:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:18

And it was amazing that big, I mean Big D as a contractor was doing that. It was a phenomenal panel.

SPEAKER_00 18:23

Yeah, and that that's one of the things that's right on the edge, right? It was like that's a real-time thing we need to talk about. So, how do other people solve for that equation of what's going on with power? That's a big event that you guys put on. Yeah, I don't tell many people will attend 700. 700.

SPEAKER_01 18:36

But if you think of the value that comes out of that panel alone, right? If you're at all curious about what's occurring in that field, and you've got the leading experts on the construction side, on the development side, on the city side, or the county side, the state side, like that, that that's hard to get all those people into one room to have that intersection of that knowledge coming out. Like that's where the value is is you come away with talking points, your clients ask you a question, you know exactly how you can deliver an answer because you were there.

SPEAKER_04 19:03

And then we do at least one event every month. Um, we'll do events at like a new multifamily you know project. And so we're I would say we're in the NAOP U or soon to be Creeta Utah chapter, or as you're seeing it, it's Creeta now. Um we're really good at networking in Utah. And education, you can get your credits at the at their at our symposium. And I I think I think the advocacy is something that we might talk about later, but I think I think we're doing a really good job of being innovative and pushing forward. I like what you're talking about with retail though. Like hopefully we're thinking through how we can fill that void of ICSC no longer kind of being the premiere. And I know you have thoughts about that.

SPEAKER_01 19:51

Yeah, I mean, I think you know, I think um, you know, when I look around the room and I say, you know, who am I doing deals with or where's the business occurring? And I I look around that NAOP room at the symposium, that's my that's my clientele. That's where they are, right? And they're there because they understand that that's an that's a that's an environment where they need to be. And so, you know, for me it's really become a moment to kind of survey my own business and say, like, are you taking what you do seriously? Like, where do you stand in the industry and the organization? Because your clients are they're all attending. And so you need to have a presence and be there. But you know, it's it's a moment for for, you know, Chad, you know this. Ten years ago, I don't think retail really had a presence at NAOP. We weren't invited to attend. Not that we weren't invited, but we weren't, they weren't, we didn't have panels or they would take our money. Yeah, but they just weren't interested in listening to us. They didn't really care about, and then one year they called us up and they said we need somebody to come and talk retail. And we're like, okay, why? This is a trap. This is a trick. What are you guys up to? Right. And so fast forward to where you know capital's flowing today and retail is is it's different, right? And so that that I think is, you know, and credit to the NAOP organization for the rebrand and you know, kind of pulling out the the tent stakes and expanding, uh, bringing in retail, bring in multifamily, bring in, you know, everything, really putting it under one roof and just understanding that the vision of where we're going looks different than where we've been.

SPEAKER_05 21:17

Yeah. And there's uh you mentioned ICSE, there's CCIM. I'm probably missing a couple of other ULI. ULI, yeah, right. But in my mind, it seems like NAOP or Akrida really is the dominant force in that in that area.

SPEAKER_04 21:32

You know, in in one aspect of it. ULI does a really good job on technical kind of training. And I think CCIM does a really good job on the education component.

SPEAKER_01 21:43

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04 21:44

Um, but when it comes to networking, when it comes to pure networking, yeah. And then on a national level, I'll chime in on the advocacy side that we you we spoke to it. If you're oil and gas, the American Petroleum Institute A API, like they're a monster. Because they're having to fight for their existence. And they, like commercial real estate, is not necessarily a big network, but they're have long been a powerful network. And they have a really powerful voice on the national level. Our team is not at that size, but we have a very sophisticated team. And they were very instrumental in the most recent tax bill where opportunity zones were reauthorized. We they made sure that our industry got a lot of tax benefits. And if we had Kyle here, he could totally speak to you know the the accelerated depreciation and and how you can move money around. But that's that happens on a national level. And that's kind of what we're trying to do here. But in when it comes to networking, we have the symposium. And for everyone who's not attended, our monthly events are a really good time. And it's if you're new in the industry, and anybody can attend those.

SPEAKER_05 22:48

Obviously, they they become a member and they can attend those events.

SPEAKER_04 22:51

Non-members are allowed. Most of our most of our monthly events for members, there we don't charge. Um, I think it's a minimum for non-members. I think it's like 30 bucks. So we're those are not to make money, those are just to facilitate network and highlight projects that are going on.

SPEAKER_00 23:08

Yeah, I mean, it is a nonprofit, right? So at the end of the day, it's not it's not a money-making venture by any shape or form. It's it's about getting people rather. But it's yeah, we can create great events, but we need to have great people come, right? To to really buy in on the on the mission of it. Um developing leaders, I I really am passionate about developing leaders just because I was able to go to NAMP events when I was younger. But also they have monthly meetings that developing leaders do. Um, but also some of us that are uh haven't, I guess, been here longer.

SPEAKER_02 23:40

Experienced.

SPEAKER_00 23:41

Experienced seasoned. Uh, we need to be there too to help develop, you know, the next generation and give that kind of same perspective um on different parts of the deal that that we all need to learn. So developing leaders is huge. They have a monthly event. They just had the event for um the legislative session. So Stuart was able Stuart was able to bring in uh Representative Walters and give kind of a debrief on what happened during the legislative session, uh, which was hugely helpful, really well attended. Um but yeah.

SPEAKER_05 24:09

How does that work? On the I think that's another thing that's really interesting, at least for me, and I think most people, but it's also very opaque, the whole political action committee pack, and that's what you do, and you're interacting with not only federal legislature, but also the Utah legislature. You were probably involved in the in the blue pond, the reflecting pond in Washington. No, not totally your fault, but it could have been never, never. Good job.

SPEAKER_02 24:35

More of a green guy. You like green. I like algae a lot. I like I like skin eating algae in lakes.

SPEAKER_04 24:42

Yeah, I'm from Louisiana. Um, well, first, like these guys are being humble, if I may. It has been amazing to watch Andy. You guys are very lucky to have him on your team because a lot of people get into their work and they're you can't see the forest from the trees. And I think that's what you're saying. You're you're going chasing work to to keep the churn going at big D. You're you're listing and and doing your thing. And it can be very easy to be short focused and NAOP to be on the board, to be involved with NAOP, you're it's a long-term investment. It means you got to show up, you got to go to events, you got to meet people. And I think knowing Andy and Braden both, you guys think long-term, which is why you're volunteering, because this board is not a paid, it takes your time, but you've gotten the benefit and you want to advance our industry. And that's what I think NAOP does. Um, we do not, we go and participate in the annual legislative meeting that NAOP Corporate has, and we help facilitate the relationship with our federal delegation. That's our members of the House and our members of the Senate. Um, and then on the state and local level, yeah, the we created, I was got on board and we're we're a non-disclosure state. So for the view viewers who don't know what that means, I think everyone here in at in on the podcast knows what that means. But what it means is when there's a real estate transaction, a commercial real estate transaction, you can put a non-disclosure on it so that it is not made public.

SPEAKER_05 26:11

Yeah. I think we're one of like 15 or 16 states, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:14

And it's very attractive for economic development for like a publicly traded company because they it's nice to know that they can keep things protected. But we've worked with the and and Nick Wood, your CEO, has been hugely helpful in that. We make sure that the assessors between the other brokerage houses, they're getting about 80% of the transaction data so that the assessors can give a real assessed value on commercial real estate. So we fought having that be been res to be rescinded. Um, power being an issue, not this session, but the session before, we partnered with the Utah Manufacturing Association and we were heavily involved in getting a piece of legislation called SB 132, which was the first of its kind in the country that allows for self-generation. If you meet a uh a threshold of a hundred megs over a six-year period, a group can get together and basically build their own utility and not have to deal with the Public Service Commission and there's a pathway to power, which bringing up Nova, they got there before, but I think they would even attest if this had been in place when they started their process, it would have made it a lot easier, not even from a construction standpoint, just from a regulatory standpoint.

SPEAKER_05 27:27

Do you feel like Utah legislators, politicians are receptive? Well, like when you go in with your delegation and you talk you're talking about these issues and educating them, do you guys feel like they're receptive to what you're saying, to the education? Because commercial real estate is kind of hard to understand for most people. Unless you're in it. Unless you're in it. Yeah. But also, like it's really important to understand, especially if you're a politician making these large-scale decisions that are super impactful. Do you feel like they um they get it? Well, so I'm a first generation pioneer.

SPEAKER_04 27:59

I didn't come out in a hand cart. I came out in a Volkswagen Passat with my wife and my two-year-old and my Scottish Terrier. Everyone's journey is different. Yeah, absolutely. But I am a pioneer, so I get to be a pioneer. Um, when I first moved here in 2013, I think there was a strong recognition both on the city and state level of how important commercial real estate is. And we didn't have to be really organized when it came to advocacy on the you know state and local elected official side. You could get any meeting you want, you could, you know, I think you can attest to this. Like it's it's it's one degree of separation. Um what I have found, and I think I think you guys would agree, since 2013 to 13 years later, that appreciation is kind of lost. Um and now you have local jurisdictions in the state scrambling to to raise taxes and find voids and and fill budgets. And just point in case, last last general session there was an effort to raise the exemption on uh a home, which on surface, oh that's great. Like it's what I think it's 75,000 to bump it up. What that was gonna do to our industry was gonna create a 40% increase on commercial real estate property taxes, right? Which does it be? And in y'all's world, you two think about CAMs, right?

SPEAKER_05 29:20

So it's not the owner. But what that means is is just like the economy at large, you're just passing that on to the consumer or you're passing that on to the tenant, the restaurant, the you know, whoever. Yep. The small business owner that is that is leasing a space. 100%.

SPEAKER_04 29:36

It would destroy the economy.

SPEAKER_01 29:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:38

So what we did in owning the advocacy space in the state level is what a united, when you have one stick, it's easier to break one stick. But when you have a gaggle of sticks, you might bend them, but you ain't gonna break them. So by us organizing around the advocacy space, that gives us a united voice. Because it used to be like one group would like hire a contract lobbyist and do that. We're we're not issue specific, we're industry specific. So it ties in with the message of us not getting only getting around in the symposium and talking to each other about what we're doing. We're now externally explaining to people who we are and how important we are. It's kind of like I have a rule in my house: if I do the dishes, but my wife doesn't see me do the dishes, I don't think I actually did the dishes. So you have to make sure as you're doesn't do the dishes. But I think as an organization, I think it's important for us to be a united voice in telling people who we are. And it's a new space for us. I think we've we've learned a lot. And and I'll just say this is our second year. There is a legisl legislative session roundup that that CCI, CCIM, NAP, and I think ULI do where we bring in legislators. We focused in on the developing leaders because they need to be informed.

SPEAKER_05 30:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:55

And they not only need to be informed about what's going on and what's impacting the industry that they've chosen to be part of, they also need to be proactive and get involved when they're municipal races or they're we're in the middle of a state cycle. They need to be when a when somebody knocks on their door and asks them their vote, they need to say, What are you gonna do about commercial real estate? We have to be individually engaging. So we're educating and doing that. So I I think we're not where we want to be, but I think we're now on a path, and I think we're working real hard to be united. I don't know if does that answer your question? It does, it does, it does.

SPEAKER_01 31:30

Yeah, and what comes to mind for me, you know, is people ask us what's going on in Utah, and I think what Stuart just outlined is part of the secret sauce. I think it's what makes Utah unique and different, attractive, all the quality and the flight, the capital that's come here over the last 10 years, that's exactly the reason why. Because they're looking for yield, and that's how we help find it.

SPEAKER_04 31:49

And a lot of you guys can experience this. We've had an influx of outside capital, outside developers coming here, and NAOP, now Krita, we have 55 chapters, so it's a known, it's a known entity. So when you come here as a first generation pioneer, you're kind of like, what's going on? And trying to figure it out. They can run to our organization and be like, I know you guys, they can get involved, and then we're we're not advocating for one particular particular issue. We just want the industry to grow and be successful, and so it's a good landing pad for as we experience, you know, other outside organizations saying, Oh, let's get into Utah.

SPEAKER_05 32:27

Don't you think uh this is kind of a lateral topic, but we have we have a contractor, we have a broker, we have a public-private capital guy. The the place that Utah has attained in the in the nation and where it was 10 years, five years ago, 10 years ago, 20 years ago, it is really amazing. I just I'm curious from all your different perspectives, because it's cool to have all you guys with different perspectives on the pod. What do you think about where Utah is now versus 10 years ago?

SPEAKER_00 32:58

Yeah, and I I was just gonna mention we were kind of in the same wavelength there. I was just gonna mention, right? Part of the the new frontier I would call is that I think I heard this on one of your other podcasts was um we're in it, we're going into a primary market. Yeah, we maybe not be at the primary market yet, but we're right there.

SPEAKER_05 33:15

I think so. I I I call it high too.

SPEAKER_00 33:17

High two, yeah, high two. And so that introduces all sorts of you know, um new uh ideas, new ways of thinking, but also an an even more need for having advocacy because yeah, we're a great place to live for many different reasons, but one of them is because, you know, not a secret, we're so pro-business, right? And our and our government and our elected officials have listened to the business voices for way before we were all even around, right? And it's that partnership that's always made Utah in my mind unique, is that we are always on the same page with our leaders, right? Or at least trying to get. And I see that it's still there. When we go talk to our legislators, we go talk to our elected officials, they say, tell me what I need to know, right? That's always the first thing I hear. Tell me what I need to know because I'm not in your world every day. And I want to know that I want to have the knowledge. So I think as long as we keep that, um, the sky's the limit for Utah. And it always really has been, right? But now we're just starting to get noticed. And so we need to make sure with more information, with more development, with more um things at our fingertips that that we're representing the industry, much like many people did before us. Um, I mean, so many of my mentors, right, that were in NAOT before. And that's really the reason I'm here. The Kyle Roberts, the rich Mitch Richmonds, the, you know, the the guys and the gals that came before us that represent our industry so well. Um, it's time for us to do things like that.

SPEAKER_04 34:46

And it's if I may riff on that, I as as someone who you know moved here, um I think we also need to protect what's brought us here. I love it here. I've I've watched two markets in Austin and Nashville. I would say they've sold their souls.

SPEAKER_05 35:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 35:04

And those cities had souls.

SPEAKER_05 35:05

They're reaping their consequences right now.

SPEAKER_04 35:07

100%. And so it's not just open door, come one, come all, right? You brought up Box Elder. Like, okay, maybe that's good, maybe that's not. But I love that we live in a place we also are sensitive to what are we doing with our water? Right? We got to protect the Great Salt Lake. So if you're gonna come here and be part of this, you have to contribute. I think of it like when I moved here, it would be like you inviting me to dinner in your house. And when somebody comes and dinner in your house, you have linens, you have dishes, like I you're inviting me in. I'm a guest and you've made a meal. So we want people who come here to also appreciate all of the generations of people who've spilt, you know, blood and tears to make this possible. And I think I think our organization also does a good job of that. It's not only our job to be open, become one, come all, but we need to educate people like, hey, there's a way we do business here.

SPEAKER_05 36:01

You guys think we're putting safeguards in place to not become a Nashville or a I mean, Nashville and Austin are incredible cities and then in many cases our stronger than Utah. But they're they're going through some challenging stuff right now because of the over-expansion, overbuilding, and overcapitalization of all these different projects. And now you're seeing a pullback. We haven't quite seen that in Utah. We're seeing it a little bit in multifamily and some other segments, but Utah always, as we've talked about before, is a little bit moderated compared to, you know, uh Phoenix or Vegas or whatever. But are we putting safeguards in place to not become those?

SPEAKER_01 36:37

Yeah, I think I think culturally we've always just been more conservative, and it's kind of ties back to our pioneer heritage and how the state got established. We've just been a little bit more careful about how we move forward with with our growth and expansion. Certainly, you know, COVID was disruptive and changed a lot of things for a lot of people. And in a lot of ways, COVID was uh a friend to Utah in the sense that you know people were no longer tied to coastal cities or markets and had a chance to come see Utah and then were like, hey, this is actually really great. Have you guys been out there? It's a wonderful place to raise a family. And then winter came. Yeah. But you know, like if you if you value your family and you want to raise good people and have a great place for your kids to go to school, this is a community where people find that, right? And so that's hard to change because that's ingrained in who we are, right? And so that's not going anywhere. So getting back to your question in terms of safeguards, I think inherently, naturally, a lot of those things exist. We have to protect those values, to Stuart's point. But I think the people that are rooted here already know that and they're they're protective about that. So we never we never grow as much as we probably should. Um, but we also don't bust like others would.

SPEAKER_04 37:50

And I'll give you two examples. Well, first of all, I think the greatest asset, and I'll just say it, being the intergalactic headquarters of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, it's not a bad thing. As an interloping Gentile, I think it's great. But I think about you think about your business card. Oh, I say it in meetings all the time, but I say, think about this. Why do you think we're a headquarters for Delta? How many flights a year does the church generate for Delta?

SPEAKER_05 38:15

Can't imagine. Can't imagine. Yeah. There's that that's the reason. They're actually, I think they're setting a record here in the next couple of weeks. They'll have something like 90 plus thousand missionaries. It's pretty amazing.

SPEAKER_04 38:26

That's the reason. It's not good planning. That's it's pretty simple. And that's an organization. Like, I don't now it's two hours. I don't have to go to church for two hours on Sunday. I can sneak in with my wife and go to Catholic church and be done in an hour. I don't have to tithe, but I reap the benefit of it. And so you can tithe though. I can. I don't have to. And more than this, he will be. But I reap the benefit of that. And I own that. Yeah. Like it's it's an amazing attribute that that we have. And I'll give you two data center examples. The first, when I was still at Salt Lake County, meta, then Facebook, the data center they built in Eagle Mountain, they were going to drop that in West Jordan. And it was a terrible deal. And I was in the county killed that deal. The governor wanted it, everybody wanted it. So I think we get close, and now it's Eagle Mountain. It's the best place for them to be. They built out all this extra infrastructure to deliver. It's opening up development. The reason they wanted to go, the reason Meta wanted to go there is because they didn't have to spend a lot of dollars delivering all the things, and they were going to be given one of the best incentives in the history of the state.

SPEAKER_05 39:36

That's like a million square feet or something like that, isn't it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:39

And we stood up and it was a nasty fight. It got in the newspaper and blah, blah, blah. And it came really close. But the line was held. And I've seen that over the 13 years I've been here. It it gets close, but it doesn't break. And then you watch what, you know, the box elder, Mr. Wonderful deal, like everyone's coming out and being like, wait, wait a minute. And, you know, in Louisiana, guess what? Meta is building a data center there and talking about power. The ratepayers of Louisiana are paying for their power. That's not going to happen in Utah. Like that's what I and when you see, when you get to go where an organization like ours gets to go on the advocacy side, you see how the sausage is made. And sausage, it ain't pretty, but the end product that we produce is pretty phenomenal. And we're not anti, it goes back. We're not like anti-business. We are pro-business. But if you're going to come and you're going to invest here and you're going to be here, you better demonstrate to us how you're going to add and perpetuate something that we've been reaping the benefit of for quite a while. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:47

And to add down to your saying, I totally agree. Um, there's also the those legacy um companies, right? The legacy developers we've had that done a great job being great fiduciaries for our market. Um we can all name all the the legacy developers that are in our state and are still active doing that, right? Those are important things to remember. My dad, 50 years at Big D, right?

SPEAKER_05 41:10

Um, there's a tendency I've seen in our in our world is we're out here throwing around 20 years, 50 years. That's exactly that's that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 41:18

Um and you know, just the greatest human, um, but principled, right? And you have to keep those principles. And I I see, and maybe this is just my opinion, but I see that sometimes in the this next generation, we're losing a little bit of the respect for that fiduciary that was given, um, for that, I guess, responsibility that they had. Um, and that needs to be passed down. Those those like core beliefs of Utah and what made us great today, we need to keep those intact.

SPEAKER_05 41:48

What's the trade-off? What I agree with you, but I it when you said that it made me think, what's the trade-off? What are they grabbing in the short term to give up that long-term fiduciary? Is it just money or yeah?

SPEAKER_00 42:02

I think it's always, you know, money or power, right? I mean, if we look at any, you know, we're going a little philosophy now, but if if you look at anything that's kind of deteriorated over time in a negative way, it comes down to you know, money or power.

SPEAKER_03 42:16

If you kill the goose that's laying golden eggs, you don't get any more golden eggs.

SPEAKER_05 42:20

I think that's what you know every every guy or person, Utah, Utah and feels like on the data centers. Because it's kind of hard to understand, and suddenly we all love Utah so much and it's and it's so near and dear to us, we want to protect it. And then you hear some guy's coming in and he's gonna build eight trillion square feet uh in a data center, and your first thought is like they're just coming in to exploit our our state.

SPEAKER_01 42:44

Yeah, take our resources, it's not prudent, right? Right? Like it just doesn't seem like the right fit.

SPEAKER_00 42:49

Yeah, and I would say right, wrong, or indifferent of that development. I agree that the way that it was gone about of announcing it, um, didn't keep in mind that that legacy of Utah, right? Yeah, it didn't keep in mind that legacy of Utah and what we all are are accustomed to, which is thoughtful, um, conservative, and um smart development.

SPEAKER_04 43:12

And while exactly right, it'll be a it it should be a master's class and a public relations class on how not to go about doing something like that.

SPEAKER_05 43:22

Yeah, also what's interesting, you got me thinking about that. The out-of-state developers that have come into Utah, um, there's been a lot of them, and there's a lot more that want to be in Utah doing business. And it feels like as I'm reflecting on it, the developers, out-of-state developers that have come into Utah and been the most successful have also been the most principled and respectful of Utah's legacy, and they're not pig headed, yeah, for lack of a better description, where they come in and just want everything and want all of it, and then they get on the next flight out of town with the money.

SPEAKER_01 43:57

And I think that's important to note, Chad, because it's not just Indicative of the way they interact in our market, but it's the way they interact in every market. Right. And so there's alignment there, right? But if you approach uh any of the family offices here and say, Do you want to dispose of an asset that you've held for 40 years? They immediately say, Well, who's the buyer? That's what they want to know. Yep. Yeah. Right? They want to know that the quality and the care is going to go right back into it. That's so true. Because that's where they've been.

SPEAKER_04 44:22

Or or in the broker side, if somebody comes to market and starts retrading, they pretty much get iced out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 44:29

It gets around real quick.

SPEAKER_04 44:30

I mean, it's it's phenomenal. And I I love being part of that network. Anytime someone new comes to town and they're like, well, how do you make it here? I tell them, if you go all in with Utah, Utah will go all in with you. Even a bombastic character from Louisiana that no one truly understands, they're like, he's a little crazy, but he loves this place. Yes. Interloping gentile. Interlopending gentle back. Sorry. I've been accepted. And there's a place that the table has been made for me. And they're like, you know what? He he might he might not act like us. He might come from a different place, but he wants to, I want to make this place better. This is where I'm raising my kids. This, this, I'm so blessed to be.

SPEAKER_01 45:13

Let me bring it full circle because I think this is important. So a couple years back, uh had a had a panel, had some cancellations last minute. There were flight issues going on across the country, had people that had to travel in, couldn't make it, had 24 hours notice. I made one phone call to a client out in uh out of San Diego and said, Could you be here tomorrow? I have a I have an open seat and I need you. I need to fill this space. So she came in less than 24-hour notice, was on the panel, helped me tell the story of what they're doing in the top 25 markets around the country and how they're executing in Salt Lake City and what value they're bringing to the community. And I think that's that's why NAOP now Krita is important for this market because those people understand what we do and how we do it, and they understand that that's an opportunity for them to get up there and tell their story and spread value throughout the network. And so that's the people we're looking for, and that's what you get from Krita.

SPEAKER_04 46:10

And that's why Krita is important to push forward what Rob has done, where you take someone, how do we not be a Nashville Nashville? You're sitting in a building owned by Steve Price. This is not how he makes his money in the industrial space. I remember distinctly, I was like, Steve, why are you buying all these houses on South Temple? It's like stort. Cities for the statues with character and a soul. They maintain their original buildings. We have to keep these mid-century modern buildings. And yeah, he puts a great advocate for Utah. You don't take a building like we're sitting in right now and scrape it and do multi-scale. Yes. You can you can harvest wealth, but what are you giving up? And that's in our organization, you know, all everyone has been involved in it, and you're now the president, you're now on the board, your organization supports it because organizations like Crete, now what is called Krita is what protects that. It's not, it doesn't just do it on its own by having this kind of tapestry of people that are not just thinking right now about this transaction, how much money I can make, but how do we think long term? That's that's what Krita does.

SPEAKER_00 47:23

Yeah, and and to your point earlier, that I mean, really it's a mentality, right? But these folks coming in from out of town, um, it's a mentality that we're looking for, right? Are you gonna be a great producer? Are you gonna do development the right way? Um, and I've met a lot of those developers through through NAOP um over the years. I mean, we go to the they have an icon conference down in Long Beach every year that's just for industrial. They have a cold storage as well in Dallas. But the Icon conference, I was able to meet some of these great developers that I could tell by the way they per did business, the way they thought about their company and the legacy they had, coming to Utah was going to be easy for them, right? And that's come that's become true for sure.

SPEAKER_05 48:04

How long do you serve as the president of Krita?

SPEAKER_00 48:07

Um, it's just a year term in our chapter, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 48:10

So wrap it up for us. It's a year from now that you've been the president. What are you hoping? If you could reflect back, what are you hoping to accomplish? What's success in a year from now from now?

SPEAKER_00 48:23

Yeah, success for a year from now is really helping people understand what Kreda is, what we represent, um, having more people involved. So really it's just recognition of the brand itself, um, which we'll see. You know, I love KPIs. I like to know that what what we're doing is working. So looking at our membership, our sponsorship, is that increasing? That means we have more eyes on it, it's working. Um, and secondarily is making sure that the board um is a place where it it can thrive for a long period of time. Meaning you understand your role, you understand responsibility on the board, you understand, understand your responsibility to the industry, um, and making sure that carries on for future boards.

SPEAKER_05 49:08

Yeah. That's great. Gentlemen, congrats on the rebrand. Nayopgo into Krita. It'll be announced July 1st, first week of July. Yep. Very exciting. You guys are doing an incredible job, great organization, tons of runway in front of you. You guys are a power team. Pretty awesome to see.

SPEAKER_00 49:27

Yeah, have a great board, a great executive director, and Cheyenne. So it's I'm excited for the next year and several years to come. So thanks for having us. Awesome. Thanks. Thanks, Chad. Awesome. I'd love to see how long are we gonna get us?

SPEAKER_05 49:41

Like 45 minutes. Is that too long? No, was it?