The Specialized Broker Advantage: Lowering Risk in Home Care

There's covered. And then there's protected. In home care, that gap can cost you more than you'd expect.

In this episode, Paul and Joan sit down with Josh Haisfield and Michael Papa of Diversified Insurance Industries to talk through what a specialized home care insurance broker actually does and why it changes things for agency owners.

If you've ever signed a renewal without really digging in, this one is worth your time.

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Your next big win starts here. Serve with heart, lead with faith, and remember… compassion is your calling, and wealth is your reward.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:06

Hello and welcome to the Home Care Millionaire Podcast, the show where compassion meets prosperity. I am Paul Timband. Alongside my beautiful wife Joan here, we're honored to be your hosts. Together, Joan and I have built a home care agency from a 12,000 little$12,000 credit card loan. Okay, some people call it a gambler at that time. We've built it into a we've built it into a an eight-figure business serving thousands of families over the years. And now we're here to share the lessons, strategies, and the strategies and the mindset shifts that help us get there so that you can too.

SPEAKER_02 0:42

We launched this podcast because the home care industry is often misunderstood. Too many people don't see the sacrifices owners and their caregivers make every single day, or the powerful impact agencies have on seniors and their communities. And truthfully, we looked around and realized there were not many podcasts out there shining a light on this industry. So we felt called to create the Home Care Millionaire Podcast.

SPEAKER_03 1:09

This podcast is designed for the purpose-driven provider for those of you who feel called to care but also want to build a thriving, sustainable business. Each week we're going to share with you real life stories, perfect strategies, and powerful mindset shifts that will help you move from just surviving to thriving.

SPEAKER_02 1:28

Absolutely. And here on the Home Care Millionaire Podcast, we're going to show you how to embrace both.

SPEAKER_03 1:41

So get ready for inspiration, practical insights, and encouragement you need to impact lives, build wealth, and create a legacy through your agency. So hit subscribe, folks. Join us on this journey to transform your business, your mindset, and your future. Welcome, folks, to the Home Care Millionaire Podcast. Hello and welcome to the Home Care Millionaire Podcast. Today, Joan and I are honored to welcome our trusted industry partners, Josh Haysfield and Mike Pappas from the first Diversified Insurance Industries Incorporated. We're so happy to have him on our podcast today. For several years, Joan and I have been working, our company has been working with uh Josh and Mike. They've been serving in our home care agency, and they serve home care uh agency owners in our industry with compassion and expertise because they understand what we do, they serve home care owners, which is key because there's so much that goes on, and we're business owners, we run our operates, we don't know the insurance part. These folks are the ones that come in and guide us. We just admire so admire the way they look out for us to review our books, advice us on how to reduce reduce our exposure, which is key. Because as you know, and as I'm sure Mike and uh Josh is gonna talk to us later on today, we start looking at workers' comp and all of that, it can get it can put you out of business, right?

SPEAKER_02 3:10

Yeah, John, you want to just uh absolutely so we're really excited to hear what they do and how they do it. So, without further ado, let's welcome Josh Hesfield and Mike Papas to the Home Care Millionaire Podcast.

SPEAKER_03 3:24

Welcome, Josh and Mike.

SPEAKER_00 3:26

Thank you, thank you, Paul. Thank you, Joan. I really appreciate you guys having us on the podcast today, and we're excited to be here.

SPEAKER_03 3:32

You're welcome. Awesome, awesome, awesome. Wow, wow, wow. Well, I think with Josh and Mike, we're not gonna waste to take too much time here. Let's just get started. Can you outline to us uh your role and what does an insurance broker do? Because that's what you guys are. We are diversified insurance uh industries. That's what you do. What is the role of uh of an insurance broker?

SPEAKER_00 3:54

So we're advisors and we're here to represent you to our carriers uh and help you through, help you with placement of your business insurance and also the risk management side of things, helping you manage claims, mitigate them, uh, you know, ultimately to keep your employees and customers safe while ultimately trying to control the cost of your insurance program and keep that competitive.

SPEAKER_03 4:22

Because insurance can be pretty expensive, uh Josh. I mean, you can you speak to that, please?

SPEAKER_00 4:28

Yeah, so I mean I I know that uh we've been working together, as you mentioned, since uh I think 2024. We met at an annual conference or started working a little bit before annual conference in San Diego. And uh you had come to me, you were working with uh a broker, I believe, that was handling your workers' compensation. Yes, and we kind of connected and started talking about you know what we do and how we get involved with the claims process. Uh, and you weren't getting that at the time. So you're you're nice enough to to share some information about your program. Yeah, we were able to go up, you know, go out to our carriers and come up with a competitive solution. But then we really looked into the claims that we were having. We started implementing some things. Uh, we we we started we put together a quarterly claims review with you and your staff, and we started meeting quarterly to talk about um the claims that were happening, looking for trends, and really identifying ways that we could get those claims closed promptly. Um, we also started talking about how you were filing claims, uh the timeliness with that, making sure that you were getting accurate information, um, working with those employees to make sure that they had everything that they needed to get treatment and get back to work as quick as possible. And uh, you know, through those efforts, we were really able to reduce the amount of claims that you're seeing. We keep a lot of them to just med-only, meaning that they're paying for the medical treatment but not missing any time. Uh, and we've even been able to implement some some light duty or return to work uh where you know that that aid might not be able to come back in their full capacity, uh, but we've been able to to work with the doctor's restrictions and put them to work in some capacity to get them to come back to work quicker uh and get that claim closed uh for less. Wow. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 6:30

And that has really served us well, Josh and Mike, to be honest with you, because sometimes we do our best to train our caregivers, we do all the um, you know, making sure that they understand proper body mechanics and all those, you know, nice things, policies and procedures, infection control and so forth. But then when they're out there in the clients' homes, you don't know what happens, right? And these things can happen, accidents can happen, and that's where you guys have really come in and helped us so many times, and we are really grateful for that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:04

I I gotta say this though. The one of the things that I like, and Mike, you can chime in whenever you're you're able to. Um, one of the things I like is the fact that you you're very proactive. You know, you you take very proactive steps, you meet with us. We we have regular meetings with you, Josh and Mike. Yeah, in fact, you you remind me about these meetings oftentimes. You set these things stop, you bring even a representative from the carrier to meet with us. Remember that? Yeah, I mean, to just to show them that in good faith. Go ahead, please.

SPEAKER_00 7:34

Well, that that was actually a really interesting meeting, you know. So we were looking at claims trends, and uh to your guys' credit, well, one of the claims trends that we identified that there was another number of caregivers that got bit bit by by dogs, uh, you know, incidents with dogs where they got injured by pets in the home. And when we were talking about those claims, and this was over a couple of years, but there was a trend of that happening. And to to your credit, you guys had an animal policy in place where your preference would be that that the family would put away those pets when your caregiver were in the home. But obviously, people like their pets and they like their pets to be out. So sometimes that didn't happen, and and that's when these incidents were occurring. Uh, but what we identified was uh large portion of those claims was the the caregiver going to the medical facility and having to get uh have a rabies check to make sure that those they did get rabies and those dogs were vaccinated. Uh, and we discussed you know potentially adding to that pet policy checking to get the pets vaccines so that if a dog someone did get bit, we could produce a copy of the rabi rabi vaccine to avoid that charge for that test, which was actually pretty significant. I think it was$3,500 for each one of those claims. So that's that's something, you know, an example of where we had saw the trend and we identified something that we could potentially implement uh to reduce future claims costs and try to get that under control. So that that was, and it was actually the carrier adjuster that was involved in that meeting that was able to kind of talk about to bring that idea to our attention.

SPEAKER_03 9:21

Well no, that's awesome. And you know, the good thing is that when you come in good faith too, especially the fact that we had a courage in there, we're talking that they were part of this meeting, they came up with some ideas to the table that helped us, right? It just it just makes them look at your your business, your exposure differently. Does it not, Josh?

SPEAKER_00 9:40

It does. I mean, I think these meetings are are great because I mean, a lot of times as as a home care owner, as you guys know, you guys are wearing a ton of hats, you're juggling so many different things. I mean, you want to stay on top of all of them, but unfortunately sometimes workers compensation claims might fall down on that list. So it's kind of the regularly quarter reminders, uh, you know, where we're we're we have it on our calendar, we're meeting, and your staff is great. I mean, they help out a lot in these meetings and help keep things along. We're following up with these adjusters to make sure things are moving along with these claims, uh, which has really helped from a workers' compensation standpoint. So it's been great.

SPEAKER_03 10:21

Awesome. I was just gonna add also that you know it's important. I mean, you know, we because of what we do and the kind of publication we serve, we have to have insurance, right? It's not uh, you know, if you want it or not, you gotta have it. I mean, you you know, it's part of the fact that a lot of our businesses, a lot of companies work with, you know, that's uh companies who contract for our services. It's a requirement, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 10:45

Go ahead. Go ahead. I was just gonna jump in, Paul. I'm sorry, this is Michael. You raise it, you raise a great point. Um, so home healthcare firms like yours buy insurance, and we did some reason two-thirds of businesses buy their insurance because they have to have it, just like you said. And not only does not only do home healthcare firms have to have it, they have to be in certain compliance with rules with regard to a franchise or so that's right. Uh yeah, maybe a third of the businesses in the country have buy business because they're risk risk averse and they want to make sure that if that something bad happens, the insurance carrier has that um that responsibility. And and there's a component of that for for all home health care firms, too. Um but the the thing that differentiates our team, we think, is that this division of diversified insurance does nothing but home health care. And the what that does, what that does for on behalf of our home health care clients, um, there's some misconceptions. I mean, we're an insurance broker, we're an insurance agency, we're a go-between. We match your firm with an insurance carrier. Yes. Um, but there are a couple of misconceptions. One, um, when a carrier quotes, uh it's gonna be the same quote for every agency. That is not true. They they underwrite us just like the carrier underwrites you, meaning they want to know that when we send them business to uh what your insurance carrier, that it's gonna be good, profitable, vetted business. And because our team, headed by Josh, does nothing but home health care, they know that we know what we're doing. Number two, that's important. Two, they don't want to lose money. That's right. Of course, no one wants to lose money. So they they will vet diversified insurance to make sure that the that the the business that we send them is profitable. So if all of a sudden all of our home health care firms have pay two dollars on claims for every dollar of premium they pay, we're getting fired. That's right, that's right. That's not that's not a good business. That's not good that's not a good business model, no. So so we um we make their insurance carriers money because they know that we vet our our clients like you, and they know that in the end, we know what we're doing. So uh we know what compliance is, we know what your franchise order is requiring, they know that we know, and although we're one of the top 100 insurance brokers in the country doing all kinds of doing all kinds of I'm talking about independent insurance agents, absolutely. Um, we might have the largest home health care only division within that insurance agency. So way to go. So Mike or Judge, way to go. And and the carriages start to recognize that. So when we go to, let's say we went to uh an insurance carrier, I'll just pick one out of the air. Hanover insurance. I just what now there's a misconception out there that Hanover insurance, if they quote, it's going to be the same quote for your firm as it is going to be if for another agency to bring your firm to them. Not true, not true at all. They will give us a much better premium to give to you than they would give that other agency who's doing a home health care business one hour and doing a garage the next hour and doing a contractor the next hour. So if your agent is doing things all over the place, how can they be an expert in what it is that you do? That's that's the differentiator that we because there are there are three there are 37,000 insurance agencies in the country, but I don't know that anyone has a division like diversified that hones in and knows exactly what it is that you guys need and can represent can represent your story to an insurance carrier. Now that of course it sounds like I'm trying to sell us, and I am well listen, Mike, please. But Josh and his team, um, we're proud of them. I mean, this is they're an exceptional crew. Wow, and um, so I just wanted to jam that in there because and another misconception is that that same carrier decides that picked up Hanover. Yes, if if we submit your your account, Paul and to Hanover, that all and another agency submits it the next day, that they're gonna quote for both agencies. Not true, they will only quote for one agency in any one year. So um a lot of times uh home health care firms don't realize that they're not gonna get the same quote from the every agency, and that they can't get multiple quotes from different agencies from the same carrier. And even though there might be 3,000 insurance carriers in the country, United States. Wow, uh, there probably are more. Uh, very few of them write home health care. Okay. So we know who they are, we know what they like, we know how they like it, and we deliver it on a plate in the right order, the right amount of potatoes, the right amount of steaks. There you go. Yeah, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 15:29

That's really interesting. You just shared some key uh points as to the importance of a maybe a potential client using an insurance broker that you know focuses on home healthcare. Yeah, know the industry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. George, do you have anything to add to that? I know Mike nearly. Mike called it all, just about.

SPEAKER_00 15:48

Well, yeah, I mean, I think just echoing what Mike said and going back to what we were talking about from the loss control perspective. I mean, us educating our clients on, you know, the proper things to do with, you know, and a lot of the stuff you're you're hearing from corporate as well. But we know whether it comes to your higher and non-owned exposure and making sure that you're making sure caregivers have a valid driver's license, you know, they have their own personal insurance in place, which is gonna be your first line of defense, and then you have your higher and unowned over top of that, or just educating you, you know, with with you know how to handle um employee employee theft. You know, so just coaching you up in different areas and our carriers knowing that we're working with you to make sure that you're protected, uh, is gonna make you more sellable to the marketplace and allow us to sell you better to the marketplace, like Mike was saying.

SPEAKER_03 16:37

Wow, that's that's good to know. This is you know, that's because like I said, a lot of folks don't they. I mean, I thought it was interesting, and I'll just share this with you real quick here. Uh, talk about exposure. We had a gentleman that uh contacted us seeking advice on how to get involved in this in this in home care, and he had uh an entity that was doing um doing okay, I think plumbing or something. He said, Well, um, I'm just gonna, you know, I'm uh I'm gonna set up the home care agency, I'll put it under this one and I'll be able to just do business. I said, wait a minute, but we don't you don't want to do that. Wait a minute, you know what's gonna happen to your insurance? What's uh you know, so a lot of folks don't know. So this information you guys are talking about, and and the fact this information is extremely important, but the fact that you guys are top in the nation speaks volumes, and we can we can certainly testify because of the quality of work we've seen. I mean, you know, I'll tell you, Mike, this team here with Josh and Zach and the other folks, they do a heck of a job, I gotta tell you, because I've witnessed it, you know. I mean, I really have. So yeah, yeah. The the I think the do you want to ask?

SPEAKER_02 17:40

Yeah, I mean, I think I think I was gonna ask the question about because I I just learned something new today. I don't know about you, Paul, when Mike was talking. I didn't know one uh carrier couldn't underwrite the same, no, couldn't underwrite the same company from two brokers, right? So would they would not? I just learned that today. So wow, that is interesting. So it's really important that folks who are interested in our industry looking for insurance, do some homework.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

Yeah, you know. It really is, Joan. And I would add to that that if if another broker were to submit your account to them, and then we would also submit it to them, not only would they decline it for us because uh someone else had gotten there first, they might they might decline it altogether because they think it's being out, it's being shopped so much that they they their chances of success are down. So there's another misconception that um, hey, I the best way for me to get the best uh combination of price, coverage, and insurance carrier, the best way to do it is to get three insurance agents to all quota my business. That may be true in some industries, it is not true in home health care because you you will negate uh the carriers who are very few and far between, who might be interested in a home health care account. If that home health care of that carrier thinks this is out the market with 15 different agencies, they'll just walk, they'll just they they have a limited time resource to underwrite accounts and they'll say, Oh, not this, I have low chance of success here. This is out all over the street. I'm gonna devote my attention to the next one. And I I can honestly say that that I speak from experience because I used to be an insurance carrier underwriter. Okay, I'd be sitting in this seat, and I if I didn't think that I had a good chance of actually attaining the account, I'd be moving on to the next one. Got a lot of opportunities.

SPEAKER_02 19:31

Wow, interesting, interesting.

SPEAKER_01 19:34

Go ahead, go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 19:34

Um Josh, do you want to say something?

SPEAKER_00 19:36

I was just gonna say that that that goes back to the risk management component as well. I mean, a lot of people feel that the best way to control the cost of their insurance is just to shop, shop, shop. And to what I mean, if you're talking if you're sending the program out every year to 10 carriers and only one or two of them is gonna get rewarded with the business after they do that year after year after year, like Mike said, they finally just say we're not gonna look at this anymore because we've done this one, two, three times. Uh, we're not gonna do it anymore. So the approach of not to say they never shop your insurance, but try to space that out a little bit uh and really focus on the on controlling those claims to ultimately control the cost of the program.

SPEAKER_03 20:20

And I would also add that it's good to have a dedicated broker like you guys, right? Because it's uh isn't business mostly about relationships, though. Have a dedicated business imagine this, right?

SPEAKER_01 20:31

If I have you quite quite it's a great point, Paul, because there are so few carriers involved with home health care that we make it a point to know these underwriters, not only just know who they are, know their family, know how many kids they have, what their dog likes to eat for dinner. Wow, birthdays, maybe, Mike. Uh it's in our best interest to have a really strong relationship with these insurance carriers. And they build so much trust that when Zach sends an account on behalf of Josh to ABC Company, that they know that he knows what he's doing, and they're not that they're not wasting their time talking to Zach. Exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 21:07

And and the and the other thing, also, Mike and Josh, you would love to do business people that they like, right? Well, it comes down to that. You get a relationship, they already like you, they're gonna look favorably on you. I mean, you know, we've said that in banking, another thing. So I was gonna ask this, and I know Mike may already touch on this earlier. How did you guys come to concentrate on home the home care industry?

SPEAKER_00 21:28

It's it's an interesting story. I mean, I I got in the business uh 15 years ago. Uh, I was I moved over from business banking and started uh kind of made a transition into insurance. And and Mike was actually helping me at the time. He he was my mentor, he he had been in the business already, had lots of experience and that underwriting experience. And we were kind of looking for new industries that we could focus on. Uh and we started looking at home health care, not on a national basis, but really just in Maryland, DC, Virginia. And we ended up writing a lot of independence, but also writing some franchises. And you know, we had wrote written a handful of one franchise. You know, kind of from word of mouth. We did one a good over a couple of years we did a really good job for one and it kind of spread like you guys do. You know, you get to talking. And owners from you know the Mid-Atlantic went out to annual conference and kind of advocated for us to become a preferred vendor in this in this franchise or next year we went out to annual conference and it kind of opened my eyes that you know that there were all these franchise oars out there looking for partners that act had expertise in the area. So I really focused on honing into home health and learning the industry, learning your guys' business, learning your needs, trying to figure out the specific coverages that you need to protect your business. And we were able to grow that into relationships with with multiple national home care franchisers, including visiting angels. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:14

Good deal. Good deal. Awesome. Wow that that that is great that that's awesome. I like that backstory because it helps. It does help you know so yeah yep yep. Joe you want to you know I think we have a question there.

SPEAKER_01 23:27

Yeah I mean why does it matter that a broker has business that is profitable in an insurance with an insurance carrier don't all carriers give the same quote yeah yeah I can speak to I can speak to that joan this is Michael um the uh insurance companies will underwrite the insurance agencies just like just like uh they'll underwrite the franchisees or franchise ours so um and if we don't provide profitable business to them they'll fire us so no our agency has been around since 1969. Uh the oh wow agency itself has never changed the Fanler just passed away but the it's still in the family the consistency of the firm has given us a reputation that the that the carriers trust and they like us because we're nice joan they like we're very nice people okay they like us they like us a lot more because we make them money and there you go uh so that's why they're rock they're knocking on our door and there's not a day Josh can attest to this it's not a day that it goes by that our insurance carriers are not not literally in our office trying to meet with our our people um to talk to us wow that's a truism wow wow so i i was gonna ask this um so what is the industry outlook like i know for home care workers comp uh we have to have it i don't know if there's any state that doesn't require that but what is the outlook like what what is in the horizon what's coming up well it's a great question it's a great question so uh we keep tabs on the trade press every day and the marketplace has been very firm hard meaning the prices have been going up for about a decade uh workers comp has been the one exception that's the one area not not necessarily in home health care i'm talking about a cross of industries that has been relatively stable or low over the past decade last week for the first time since 2017 did we see an announcement that uh the the property and casualty marketplace is starting to level off it's starting to the the increases are decreasing okay now that's good to know from a forecasting standpoint going forward but you don't care about that so much you care more about the home health care space itself so what we try to do is and and Josh can tell you we we have conversations with carriers all the time and we're doing a project right now to show that the the accounts that diversified has in the home health care space are more profitable than the accounts that ABC agency down the street has and we have the data we have the critical mass to now prove that because Josh has been doing nothing but home health care now for years and years and years. So we've got enough volume of of accounts where we can show that the losses related to those accounts going back five years are going to make the carrier money. So a carrier might say hey there are five key uh uh coverages that a home healthcare company needs you know you you need pro you need general liability you need professional liability you need theft of clients property you know hired a non-owned certain things you guys need no question about it there are a lot of carriers that might write one two three four pieces of that we're trying to make a case hey it's it's good for you to break your mold and write all five pieces for diversified and here's why we have made money for our car and carriers and we're gonna make money for you and that so we're working behind the scenes to broaden the number of carriers that are going to be available to you and the and that makes your account more uh more more attractive to the insurance marketplace what we're trying to do to Mike's point I mean we we've been successful with this we we've talked to carriers and have a number of markets that weren't necessarily writing home health and because of the statistics and profitability we've showed them on our book of business uh through the risk management and how we're handling things the screening up front they've started offering coverage and there are a couple even a couple situations where we've been able to get more more coverage than other brokers because of our reputation your history your history if you are and and and and and also if I may just add also if it's good for them it's good for us the consumer right I mean because the price is going to go down right I mean because if if you have one stop shopping if they have all your business more competitive it's easier for you guys also for you Mike and Josh to go represent us to the carrier say hey Jordan Paul have this business this is what they have this is what a total portfolio is right so doesn't it work better for us I think absolutely go ahead and I mean and even even the even the franchise franchise reputation I mean visiting angels you know other other other franchisors have have reputations and carriers you know much would rather work I mean no no offense to independents but just because you have that extra guidance and and and assistance out of the gate you know they wouldn't they'd like like to work with you guys because they know that those controls are in place or getting correction out of the gate um you know you're gonna have the things that you need to have you're gonna have the insurance requirements that you need uh that makes you more attractive to to just just the underwriters you know where some of the independents unfortunately maybe in the beginning you know cut some corners or decide not to get certain coverages because they don't feel that they're necessary so it's it's it's an advantage you know being part of a franchise or sometimes when we're representing you two two carriers huge and I was going to add also Micah Josh that as an independent it may behoove them to use you because you you you're like the guard rail now because they have no franchisor to direct them right so they they ought to come to you.

SPEAKER_00 29:10

That's that's a great point Paul I mean we we we work with a lot of independents and we also work with a lot of franchisees um you know the the franchisees are often dictated their coverage is dictated by the franchise or so sometimes it's a little bit tougher for us to come in and maybe add additional coverage or make recommendations where we can improve things where with the independents a lot of times like Mike has alluded to they may be reaching out to the agent down the street who doesn't specialize in home care. They're literally going on to Google and trying to figure out who writes home care insurance. And whatever quote that underwriter gives them is what they're presenting to the client and they might not have a million dollars of sexual abuse and molestation or that that they might leave off that hired and non-owned auto that's going to protect you if if you know a caregiver gets into an accident and their insurance doesn't respond. They might leave off that third party crime or theft of client's property. So you know with the independence we can offer a lot of advice and guidance and then also we're obviously still delivering our our superior customer service and claims and risk management services. So yeah we love independence uh we can add a lot of value there uh as well yeah they're they're great great opportunities for us and also I don't I don't know if Mike wants away but I think also as even as independent you know it will help them to use you because if they have the proper coverage they go to a long-term care company long-term care insurance company for business they're gonna they're gonna be able to because these as in what we our experience has been that even if you go to the veterans for business or these are the companies you go to they're gonna look at all of those numbers if you don't have the right insurance coverage you're out of door because of the contract go ahead it's funny you bring that up Paul because uh over the last year or so we've had some strategic partners that some of our franchisors partner with and they're actually sending independence to us because the brokers that they're working with aren't able to get them the coverage to meet that that person's requirements so they know that we've been able to deliver it.

SPEAKER_03 31:18

So we're getting referrals from you know your strategic partners because they've heard about the job that we've done through franchise ours wow wow awesome awesome mike did you want to wait i'm i think we are any closing any closing last words because we're done with thank you again for your time but any closing uh you know uh suggestions ideas nuggets you might want to leave with our audience Mike and Josh the only thing I can think of joan and Paul is if you ever leave home healthcare you're hired thank you thank you I appreciate that thank you we appreciate we appreciate that very much our retirement is guaranteed then that's right we got a job you know good deal good well and and yeah again thank you all so much Josh and Mike for taking the time we just join and I thought as we do this podcast you know to our audience who are folks who run home care agencies which we have a lot of independents listening to us as well we have a lot of franchises listening to us as well we want to kind of speak to this because it's it's an important part of your business i mean you know anyone in home care it's important i mean you know and uh and we know the kind of work that you guys do um the quality of work you've done for us you know over the years and that's what I want to bring you on to share your wisdom your expertise to our audience so thank you so much Mike and Josh for joining us today and have a wonderful rest of your day thank you again for your thank you really appreciate you including us thank you thank you so much for joining us today on the Home Care Millionaire podcast we hope you found inspiration encouragement and practical tools you can apply right away in your own journey our mission is simple folks to shine a light on the incredible impact that home care owners and their caregivers make every single day and to give you the mindset strategies and faithful wisdom to build both purpose and prosperity because here is what we believe compassion is your calling wealth is your reward if this episode spoke to you I would love for you to subscribe so you never miss an episode and if you like more resources or have questions for Paul and I just head over to askjoanandpaul.com we'll be honored to connect with you there. Until next time folks remember you have what it takes to build wealth create freedom and live a legacy through your agency we're here cheering you on every step of the way bye for now