Calorie counting... Is the juice worth the squeeze?

Should you track your macros… or not?
It’s not a yes or no. It’s a depends on you.
For some people, tracking is like flipping the lights on. You finally see what’s actually going into your body. Awareness goes up, mindless eating goes down, and progress starts to make sense.
For others, it turns into noise.
Numbers take over. Food becomes math. And being “on track” starts to pull you out of your life instead of helping you live it.
That’s where this conversation lives.
We get into:
• When tracking actually helps
• When it quietly makes things worse
• Why you probably don’t need to do it forever
• And how to use it as a tool… not a leash
Because at the end of the day, health isn’t just about being in a deficit.
It’s about being present in your life while you’re getting there.
So before you download the app and start scanning everything you eat…
ask yourself:
Is the juice worth the squeeze?

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome into the Oh Health Yeah podcast brought to you by Healthy is Wellness. As you all know, our mission is to empower you to take control of your health and elicit a little bit of curiosity in your life when it comes to the world of wellness. Thank you so much for tuning in today. And if you have loved ones or friends that you think would benefit from this, share it with them. Let's get this thing going. Should I track my macros? Should I start counting my calories? Well, technically, yes, but kind of no. But if I want to lose weight, I have to be in a caloric deficit. So do I need to track my macros? Well, kind of yes, kind of no. We're gonna dive into it today. It's one of the number one questions in the wellness fitness industry. Do I need to track my macros? And from our perspective, there's times where it may be valuable, but there's also times where I don't think it makes a lot of sense. So we're gonna go into when should I track my macros? When should I not? And what do we believe about macro counting? Cool with that? I think we're gonna argue a little bit, but yeah. Ooh, game on, game on. Okay, so my first portion of this episode. When is it a yes that I should track my macros? The first one that I have analytical focused individual. Somebody that is very, it's gotta be either black or white. It can't be gray. I'm either in a deficit or I'm in a surplus. I'm either making progress or I'm not. That's the first one that I have where it's like, okay, maybe it's a yes in this instance. If you are extremely analytical, what do you got?

SPEAKER_00 2:01

That's true facts. That's me for sure. When it comes to stuff like that, I am very black or white, I am in a deficit or I am in a surplus. Maintenance is hard.

SPEAKER_02 2:12

So you'd agree with that one.

SPEAKER_00 2:13

I would.

SPEAKER_02 2:14

Okay. Sweet. Another one. When is it a yes? When the client feels the need to. The generic, obviously that's a generic answer, but in my mind, I think what's wrong with fitness and wellness is people tell you that you need to track your macros. That is your decision and your decision alone. If you, as the client, come to me and you say, Gus, like, I want to lose weight, I want to be 150 by my daughter's wedding. When's your daughter's wedding? Six months. Cool. Well, what do you think is gonna help you? I think I need to track my food. Great. I'm here to support you and empower you. If you think that's what's best for you, then hell yes, do it. So this bullet point to me is like if the client feels the need to, then do it. What do you think?

SPEAKER_00 3:04

A caveat that I have about this subject is while I feel strongly about macro counting for a lot of people. I don't when I say that, the caveat is I don't think that every person should do it forever. And sometimes I feel like and I I remember when I started seeing Paige, my my dietitian, it's like, yo, just track for like two weeks. Don't change your diet, eat regularly for two weeks so you can understand what you're putting into your body. It will force you. It I really do believe it's the same concept of reading the nutrition label. It forces you to eat more mindfully. Mindless eating is a big problem when it comes to obesity. It it leads to obesity, boredom, not knowing, not paying attention to what your body. I mean, and you and I can both attest to this. I've counted so many calories, I don't need to count calories. I don't need to. I I feel like you and I could, I you would agree with me. It's subconscious at this point. Like you could show me just about any food. I know, probably within a 10% margin of air, how many calories is in the palm of your hand, the chicken, the the thigh versus the breast, the beef versus the elk, the the fat person. Like you and I both know off the top of the head what the caloric and protein difference is between 80-20 beef and 93-7 beef. It's huge. It's a massive difference. Like you're talking like 80-20 beef, four ounces of it, probably like 285 to 310 calories, 93-7 beef, 180 to 210 calories for four ounces of it. You know, that wouldn't would you agree with those numbers? So, like, I I just think for a lot of people, doing it for a small amount of time, so you can gain knowledge. I think knowledge is power. With that all being said, the caveat on the caveat counting your macros can cause disordered eating. And I'm guilty of it, and I feel like you probably are too. It 1000% can and will cause disordered eating in some people. So that's why I say it's important to have the knowledge, but not become obsessive of it. That's easier said than done. I will pass the torch back to Gus.

SPEAKER_02 5:25

Yeah, no, you're 100% right. That's one of the things that I'll talk about when I get to when is it a no. So, what you just said, like I would agree that no one ever needs to track their calories for their entire life. I would not love that for literally anyone. Honestly, like, I would not love anybody to track their calories for their whole life. But it can be a tool that allows you to get a little data as to what you're putting in your body. And the other thing, too, to think about is how the people that make our food, the scientists behind this, have made these foods hyper palatable to where even if you think that you're consuming a little, they're so damn addictive, a lot of things are, that you don't even realize you're consuming a lot. So your mouth grows for a week can be like, okay, this was really eye-opening.

SPEAKER_00 6:12

Seriously eye-opening.

SPEAKER_02 6:13

I had to have three of these and it was X amount of calories. Whereas if I just have one, it's 150 calories, but that one is made to be so damn good that you ain't just having one. It's like the bag of chips thing. Nobody just has one serving of chips.

SPEAKER_00 6:26

See, this is the this is the fascinating thing about this subject, is I talk about how Healthy Is's approach is a roundabout way of putting somebody in a caloric deficit when it comes to weight loss, right? And I think that caloric deficit, doing what you just said and eating the three things and learning how many calories are in it is a roundabout way of doing all of the things that we talk about healthy is. Because if you're some a lot of people like quantity, right? Okay, so for example, just uh I just want to analogize this for people so they really understand. So let's say you have three McDonald's cheeseburgers, they're good, they taste good. But let's say that each of those cheeseburgers is probably 900 calories on the low end. That's 3,000 calories. 3,000 calories for three cheeseburgers. Now, Gus, if I gave you free rain in the grocery store and you could use elk burger, how many calories would it be for three burgers?

SPEAKER_02 7:36

Oh, not very much. I ate like 13 ounces of elk yesterday and it was like 500 calories.

SPEAKER_00 7:41

That's what I'm saying. But in the process of doing that, so you could make it hyper palatable, it probably had mushrooms, tomatoes, swish. You're coloring your microbiome, you're building your fiber up, you got the protein, you're doing you're eating whole foods, you're doing so many healthiest challenges in reverse. So, like that's why I feel like it can be so good to count your calories, even just for a little bit. The the other analogy I was gonna give the I'm really passionate about this, if you can't tell. I really think like, like for me, quantity, right? I am someone that really loves quantity. I'm not ashamed to admit it. So I put everything in a salad. And when I say a salad, I probably eat one to two pounds of lettuce a day, every day, because it's hella low calorie, but it's also really good for you to get that much fiber. The greens in your eating vegetables, and I love adding pickled jalapenos, dude. That's been my kick lately. But throwing the peppers in there, putting veggies in it, olives mushrooms, like you're coloring your microbiome. You're getting vitamin D from the mushrooms, all in the effort, so I feel full. So I don't snack on the hyperpalatable stuff. I make my super dense meal hyperpalatable. But the analogy that I was gonna give you is like everyone that, let's say you live in a certain area, at this point, you could probably drive through Billings without looking at your speedometer and be within a couple miles per hour, right? Oh, yeah. Like you know it pretty freaking well. You've been driving here your entire life. But you would have never known that if you didn't have a speedometer in the beginning.

SPEAKER_01 9:23

True.

SPEAKER_00 9:24

You know what I'm saying? Not suggesting people shouldn't pay attention to the speed limit, but you can't follow the speed limit if you don't know how fast you're going. Damn, that was a good quote.

SPEAKER_01 9:39

Put it on a poster. Add the damn, that was a good quote.

SPEAKER_02 9:46

Basically, what you're saying is when it comes to tracking calories, you can't really know if you're having success if you don't at least know where you're at. Yes. What the caloric density is of the food you're consuming.

SPEAKER_00 9:54

In regards to tracking calories, yes. Doesn't always mean success, but I do think it's it's just like I mean, our motto is the GPS, you gotta know where you're at to get to where you want to go. Yep. So I like it. Cool.

SPEAKER_02 10:05

The last one I have of when it is a yes to track the calories is similar to what I mentioned earlier, but the goal is very clear and they want change. The goal is very clear. Like, I am fixated on being 10% body fat. I am fixated on being 150 pounds by summer. Like, if someone has a very clear and concise goal, I feel like that's where it can be extremely beneficial. And the other thing, too, that comes to my mind for this is the the closer you get to optimizing your health, sometimes the harder it is to optimize that. And that's where the calorie counting comes in. So, like if somebody's trying to get extremely lean or extremely whatever, that's where it makes sense to me. What are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_00 10:50

I I think the problem with calorie counting is it doesn't take into account human error.

SPEAKER_02 10:57

Oh, and the fact that there's like an 80-20 by the FDA on most food items. They have to be within 80% of the actual caloric amount.

SPEAKER_00 11:06

It's five percent.

SPEAKER_02 11:07

80-20.

SPEAKER_00 11:08

I'm pretty sure it's five percent. I'll look it up right now. Yeah, look it up. It's a five percent margin of error.

SPEAKER_01 11:12

Alright, let's see.

SPEAKER_00 11:13

That's why mustard is five calories. How much of a ding ding ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. See, I told you guys we were gonna argue.

SPEAKER_02 11:25

How much of a chloricole air is allowed with foods? Up to a 20% margin of air. I win.

SPEAKER_01 11:34

Cite your source! Meaning a product with 100 calories listed could legally contain up to 120 calories.

SPEAKER_00 11:40

Okay. Okay. Morning. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 11:44

What were you gonna say though? You had a train of thought going and then I derailed it. Um based off of the math working.

SPEAKER_00 11:53

Oh, human error. Oh, yes. So, like, if somebody's goal is so strict, like you said, well, but it's just science. It's calories in or calories out. That I mean, that's what healthy is is, is is the human error. Humans aren't just science. We're emotions, we're feelings, we're struggle, we're loss, we're happiness. And that's the thing, is we that's the su the craziest part about food is just like alcohol and even some drugs. You need you you you eat at a wake when someone dies. You eat at a party to celebrate. You eat to live. You have to eat two or three times a day. So you use it to celebrate, you use it to grieve, you do all these things. So sometimes they can just get so convoluted, we don't take that into account, right? I'm not gonna lie to you and say that sometimes counting calories gets in the way of life. And if you're if you're somebody that I mean the human air part of it is just so big to me. And that's why I agree with you that not everyone should attract calories because what do you think about what I'm saying right now?

SPEAKER_02 13:12

I'm about to jump right into it.

SPEAKER_00 13:14

Go for it.

SPEAKER_02 13:14

So when is it a no? When is it a no to track calories? The first thing that I put on here, and Zach is referring to it, honestly, with what he's saying right now, I put general population, and that's very, very vague. But I would say that the majority of the clients that we see, I don't think the first step on their health and wellness journey is tracking their calories. I think that that could be almost too big of a step and too invasive of a step. We talk a lot, and Zach mentioned this earlier, how we use different habits to allow people to find a caloric deficit if that's what they're after. I love the idea of fixating on something that's doable for you and that's realistic for your life. Oftentimes, general population people, the people that we're speaking to the most, that first step of tracking calories can be so damn deep and steep. And it's like, okay, so I got to get a food scale and I got to get an app and I got to figure out like what's in my this, this, this. I make a smoothie every morning. How the hell do I know? Calories are in it. Yeah. So when is it a no? My first one was general population. I don't know if it's the first lever to pull for most people. What are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_00 14:22

And it's obviously very situation dependent. You've heard of task stacking, right? Oh, yeah. Sometimes people have a lot easier of a time when they can move the needle three degrees rather than one. And they see a tangible difference in task stacking, in my opinion. I was talking to my friend Darcy about that just the other day. She was telling me when she she eats eggs for breakfast, she does hard-boiled eggs, she'll boil an egg while she's in the shower. So she can just get them both done at the same time, and that just makes it so much more of an attainable step, right? So I feel as though when we I do agree with you that it's uh it's too daunting to have somebody track especially harshly right off the bat, but if you can gain them a mastery experience, for I mean, the perfect example of that for me as a coach is if someone's drinking a 12-pack of Pepsi a day and I can get them to switch to diet soda for the whole 12-pack or even half, that is a massive, and I cannot express to you guys enough how massive of a caloric difference that is. I mean, there's 140 calories of there's 140 calories in a full sugar Pepsi. So 140 times 12, that's like 1600 calories, right?

SPEAKER_02 15:44

I guess 1800, yeah. 1800 calories.

SPEAKER_00 15:48

So in a roundabout way, you will lose weight if you do those, if you go switch from that to that, cutting out 1800 calories in a day is a stark, yeah, stark difference. But that's without cutting calories at all.

SPEAKER_02 16:05

Exactly. That's what I'm thinking, too. Like, for instance, you're talking to the client about the soda. You're not talking about you need to go download an app and track.

SPEAKER_00 16:11

Exactly. So if you just do this one thing, you're gonna feel hellaciously better from not having that much sugar in a day, which is like I think there's like 30 grams of sugar in one Pepsi. Think about how much Pepsi. There's 28 grams in an ounce, right? So there's one approximately one ounce of sugar in a can. Like that's almost a pound of sugar in a day. In 12 cans. So well, think about it. If there's 12 ounces in a can. I have no idea. That's crazy. Well, think about it. There's 16 ounces in a pound, right? 12 ounces in a can, there's 12 sodas in a pack. So that's if it was if it was 16 cans, it would be a pound of sugar. Got you. But there's 12 cans, so it's 12, it'd be 12 ounces of sugar a day.

unknown 17:00

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 17:00

I think I think my master, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it's almost it's almost one ounce per 12 ounce can. It's a little bit more. So you're cutting out one pound of sugar a day. So the the mastery experience slash task stack task stacking that I'm talking about is we didn't touch calories. We didn't talk about calories at all. But you just reduced your sugar intake by one almost one pound a day, which is your A1C is gonna be screaming better. And you're gonna lose weight from it. You're gonna see the needle move a whole bunch, and you didn't even talk about calories, but you gained that client the mastery experience. Yeah, you did something that moved the needle, and it didn't take that switching from Pepsi to diet Pepsi is not that much effort. Sometimes it's hard, and I understand that, I acknowledge that, but it's I so that that's where I sit with that.

SPEAKER_01 18:02

I like it.

SPEAKER_00 18:03

And then once you gain those mastery experiences, then you can start to get into calorie counting, even if you even need to. I mean, if you're eating a pound of sugar a day, that might be all the weight you need to lose. Exactly. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 18:14

Cool, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:15

Absolutely. I'm with you. Uh, the next one I have, when it's a no, when calorie counting is a no, I just put busy individuals. I think this is something that stuck with me. Like when we when we had our fourth kiddo in the house and we were going into labor and having the baby and going to be at the hospital and taking time off of work. The last thing I want to do is be tracking my calories. Like, I don't want to be wasting my time scanning my food, weighing my food. When I want to be present with the woman that I love and my kids. And I think of that with a lot of our clients, like our CEOs or our kind of the top-tier individuals that we work with from a business perspective that are extremely busy. Like, oftentimes they don't have time to track their macros or track their calories. So in my mind, when is it a no? When you're busy or you're going into a busy phase of life where other things are the priority. Thoughts on that one?

SPEAKER_00 19:04

I have such a bias on that topic. It's hard for me because like when you don't have time, that's why for meal prep, meal prep, meal prep, meal prep. True, yeah, that's a good way to get around it. Yeah. That's that that's my solution for a lot of people, but sometimes meal prepping isn't realistic for people. So but I am a big advocate of cost effectiveness, and I really like those, the new stofers, um, kind of microwave meals. They pretty good macros, decently clean ingredients. And for people that are on a budget, they're like $3 a meal, which is when in all of my meal prepping experience, when you can average your meal between two and three dollars, that's pretty darn cost effective, especially if you consider going to a restaurant. You're paying $10 to $15 a meal without tip per for your plate. So those stower meals, you know, they got really good. Like this one that I've been eating a lot lately is tuna casserole. It's got celery and green beans. Maybe it has green beans. Either way, it has tons of tons of colors in it. Tuna, high protein, I think it's like 22 grams of protein for 360 or 420 calories. Pretty darn good. And for people that are on a budget or on a time constraint, I think meals like that can be very beneficial, a very good tool for people. So, but I do understand that they are ultra processed, hyper palatable. But sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. I'd rather you do that than go to McDonald's, right? Every day of the week. Every day of the week.

SPEAKER_01 20:26

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 20:28

Absolutely. Next one on when is it a no? I put poor relationship with food or triggering. Do calories, do macros trigger you in a negative way? And that could be there's a multitude of reasons behind that, but it could be that it triggers you in a negative way to where you then binge, or it triggers you in a negative way to where it negatively impacts your health. Yeah, when you restrict too much health. Yeah. Yeah. So that was my last one on when is it a no? I don't ever want it to be something that negatively impacts someone's overall health and well-being or their ability to be present. What are your thoughts on that one?

SPEAKER_00 21:04

It's an easy thing to hyperfixate on. So in in either direction. I mean, you can some as much as we talk about moving the needle and how poor important it is, sometimes restricting your calories X amount can cause the noodle the noodle. The noodle the needle, we're talking about food. The needle to move so much that it becomes addictive to your brain. It's such an endorphin release that you lost 10 pounds in two weeks. So I think my caveat is you listen to your body. If you feel like it's becoming a problem, first of all, therapy, talk to somebody, back off of a little bit, give yourself grace. Because it it's not talked about enough how prominent disordered eating has become, especially in this whulsa culture, man.

SPEAKER_02 21:53

Yeah, both ways though, too. I remember talking to you about I think I think somebody that is 10% body fat and addicted to track. Tracking macros and addicted to exercise is just as unhealthy as somebody that is 99% body fat and on the opposite end of this.

SPEAKER_00 22:07

Yeah, binge eating disorder. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:09

So it's like just because you know tracking macros can help you achieve your goal, it's about the relationship that you create with it and knowing like, isn't this right for me and is it not? And be honest with yourself as best as you can. See that's in those situations.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

That's that's the the interesting thing about like social media and the culture today is some people have expressed publicly that what you just said, yours is much more nuanced, but I feel like some people could interpret what you're saying as glorifying obesity. Some people, not me, absolutely not. I love your stance on it.

SPEAKER_01 22:51

Glorifying obesity.

SPEAKER_00 22:53

So when I say that, I guess what I mean is like so just to explain to people what he explained is orthorexia, hyperfixation of calories, exercise, feeling like you're not doing well without doing those things that are hyper wellness, and the other side of the spectrum is binge eating disorder, super high body fat, eating all the time, you know, you know your your high obesity rates, right? A lot of people would say, well, I would take the person that's orthorexic over the person that's on the other end of the spectrum. You get what I do you get where I'm going with that? Like, I guess what I'm trying to say is some people think that being orthorexic is better than being obese. What do you think about that? Do you think they're just different?

SPEAKER_02 23:42

Man, it's my stance is you know this, but my goal with health and any client that I work with, how can we help you be the most present in any moment that you're in? So if somebody, like I said, if somebody's 5% body fat or 99% body fat, who I would argue is more unhealthy, is a person that has a harder time being present in the moment and has the distractions. Okay. It's like if somebody's addicted to substances, like if somebody's addicted to alcohol or drugs, it's not that they're a bad person whatsoever. It's that they have a relationship with said thing that pulls them away from being present in the moment.

SPEAKER_00 24:17

I love that.

SPEAKER_02 24:18

And so they're reliant on that thing to be able to be themselves. So I wouldn't say that like it's like the left side of health versus the right side of the health. I wouldn't say that the left side or the right side of health is more healthy necessarily. But what I would ask is who is more present in the moment? Because I know for a fact, because I've been there before, where I'm fixated on my body composition, that is so damn unhealthy. Like to the point where you feel uncomfortable in your own skin when you go out in public. Even when you're 5% body fat, the same that somebody that's 99% body fat may have. And so it's like both ends of the spectrum are very different, but at the same time, there's a lot of emotions that they both carry that are similar to each other.

SPEAKER_00 24:59

I'll never forget. This was gosh, two years ago. I was still pretty darn fit, but I I had been gaining some weight, and I was extremely self-conscious, extreme body dysmorphia. And we had service that day. Everyone had service that day. We were all over the map that day, and we had to go meet with Nick. Um, and I was at Albertson's, and I was getting some sushi and zucchini. I'm a zucchini fiend. Sorry guys. And I remember Colin, you called me and you explained to me, you're like, listen, dude, like I was telling you how freaked out I was about my body dysmorphia, and I'll I'll never ever forget how you explained to me that it isn't just me. And you did it in a way that was like it was just one of the most empathetic conversations I've ever had about body dysmorphia with somebody, and you explained to me how relative something like that can be. And even though I had lost 400 pounds, it's just as relative and relevant my anxiety about my body dysmorphia as one of my coworkers that's very small person, they can struggle just as much. Just because, like from the outside looking in, mine might have looked more profound, bigger weight loss. Of course, my body dysmorphia is bad. That doesn't discredit the body dysmorphia of my coworker that's itty bitty because they might be self-conscious about being itty bitty, you know, just like I was self-conscious about being big bitty, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 26:44

Yeah, no, it's so true. So true. I remember that conversation, and it's crazy too, because so many people just look in the mirror, and the way that they perceive themselves is the way that they they feel happy or sad or present or not present.

SPEAKER_00 26:59

As much as I love social media and I think it can be great for the world, I think I attribute a good amount of that to social media, but also not. It's so comic on your algorithm. It's so well, here's the thing. My mom, for example, dude, she has been on both sides of the spectrum. She's a taller woman, she's five six. Four years ago, I shit you not, she was 90 pounds. She looked like she was dying just the other day. She's she's probably she's gone through a bunch of heart issues now. She's just got a lot of swelling and water weight because she's getting a valve replaced. She's probably 160, 170 pounds. Doesn't really sound too overweight, right? She feels so disgusting. So dis I had a conversation with her the other day where I was like, hey, because she said something about being fat. And I was like, Mom, I want you to try something for me, please. And she was like, What? I was like, anytime you have those thoughts about yourself, I want you to think about what you would say to me if I said that to myself. And it was a really nice conversation. But here's the cave my mom's never been on social media. My mom has a hard time working on flip phone. Seriously. So is it social media or are we just using social media as a scapegoat? I do think it can intensify the body dysmorphia and the hustle culture for a lot of people. But you have to look at like people from the the 50s and 60s, they didn't have social media, but they also hold their bodies to those standards that we do now. So is social media just the scapegoat? Or is it just our culture in general that that has these unrealistic expectations for people, especially for women? I mean, women have these, you need to have this hourglass. It's like it's so unfair how judged women are compared to men when it comes to their bodies. Especially when you when you take into account pregnancy. Oh my gosh. I don't think it's just social media.

SPEAKER_02 29:08

I think it's the way you were raised, too. Like I think women that like I even with our kids, I struggle sometimes because they'll be like, hey, you gotta finish your plate before you leave the table. Absolutely. That's generational, bro. Like, okay, like as a father. Do you need to finish your plate? As a father, I want you to get your vitamins and minerals from these foods, but at the same time, I don't want you to have a negative relationship with food. And I think with women specifically, if you look at women that are, I mean, any age, so much of success in life and success in health has been dictated by weight by modern media. And that doesn't mean social media. That means like even look at commercials, even look at the ads back in the day, like the girls that were on the whatever ads.

SPEAKER_00 29:48

It would be so interesting to to to interview or talk or read something that was for before media was a thing. Like 1700s, Victorian, 1600s, Victorian times. Like, was it that it's so because like you you look at culture and the way that different cultures idolized and worshiped people, like the way that the the ancient uh Egyptians worshiped cats, for example, and now they're just domesticated, like cats were gods, you know what I mean? So, like, did being obese back then mean a totally different thing? So it's just it's so complex, it's such a complex point complex issue. It doesn't mean we're not gonna dive into it because we are, but yeah, no, it's interesting.

SPEAKER_02 30:35

It's interesting when you think about the way that people perceive their bodies too, yeah, like the way that you see yourself, and then those pre-nuanced thoughts that we all have in our heads that are based around the way that we were raised, because everybody has those things. Yeah, like everybody has those, like, okay, as a man I need to look strong, or okay, as a woman, I need to be petite. People just assume these things. Whereas if we truly believe that the definition of your health is your ability to be present in any moment, then does it matter if you look buff? Probably not if you're present. Like you don't need to look like jacked out of your mind to be able to be present with the people that you love.

SPEAKER_00 31:11

Fair enough.

SPEAKER_02 31:12

Anything else you want to add to this one before close it out?

SPEAKER_00 31:15

No, I think we could really get into the weeds on this one. I do think we should have we should we should have a woman on the podcast and talk about her experience and her her views on orthorexia, body dysmorphia, stuff like that, and see get a different perspective.

SPEAKER_02 31:32

We could just do like a whole women's.

SPEAKER_00 31:34

Yeah, we should do like a women's month, uh a month of the year that's dedicated to women guests and women subjects only.

SPEAKER_02 31:41

I like it. I want to do the dads too.

SPEAKER_00 31:43

I want to do a dad's yeah, I like that too. And moms.

SPEAKER_02 31:46

Yep. Closing this thing out, coming back to should I track my macros, the question itself. Obviously, there's nuanced. You've heard us talk, kind of debate back and forth a little bit about this. But one of the things that I wanted to leave you guys with, as clients of ours, if you're one of the people that we are able to service on a monthly basis, know that as coaches, we listen to our clients and we do our best to help decide what's best for them. Our job within our wellness sessions is to empower you to take control of every single aspect of your life. And when it comes to something like should I track my macros or not, don't be afraid to ask your coach that question. Ask your coach, like, hey, is this what's best for me? And that coach should respond with a question and not a yes or no. If they respond with a yes or no immediately, you need a new coach. They should ask you. They should ask you about your relationship with nutrition, your relationship with analytics, all that good stuff. And then as clients, always keep in mind is the juice, is the juice worth the squeeze? Is it really worth it? Is this fixation on macros worth it for you? And is this something you can do in a healthy fashion when we believe that health is your ability to be present in any given moment? Thank you all so much for tuning in. Leave us likes, comments, reviews. We appreciate you all so much and hope you enjoy the rest of your day.