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Retail Media Vibes
Retail Media Vibes is your marketing lens on the world of shopping, commerce, and culture. Each episode brings fresh conversations with industry insiders who break down the stories driving how brands reach shoppers and how shoppers connect with brands. From big retail moments to the latest shifts in digital media, it’s your front-row seat to the strategies shaping the future of commerce.
We keep it smart, energetic, and actionable, mixing sharp analysis with good vibes so you walk away informed and inspired. Whether you’re a retail pro, a marketer looking for an edge, or simply curious about where the industry is headed, this podcast is made for you.
Join the vibe and stay ahead in retail media.
Retail Media Vibes
Ep. 2 - From Hiring Crunch to CTV and the Amazon-Walmart Effect
Ever wondered how retail giants are reshaping the commerce landscape while battling for your attention? In this engaging episode of Retail Media Vibes, we welcome Brad Godwin, the embodiment of positive energy and human connection in the tech-driven world of retail media.
Brad brings his refreshing perspective as a seasoned professional with Breaktime Media, highlighting why human relationships remain central even as retail media spending skyrockets to a projected $61.2 billion by 2025. The conversation explores the critical talent gap facing the industry, with Brad emphasizing that successful teams need diversity of thought: "What if you have some folks that are deep retail experts, you marry those with deep media experts, you come into some brand storytelling, and then you have folks that understand the mechanics of sales?"
The discussion takes a fascinating turn examining Connected TV's explosive growth in retail media – expanding 45.5% this year and projected to capture one in five CTV US ad dollars by 2027. Brad offers valuable insights on finding the balance between awareness and conversion, questioning whether tactics like QR codes actually drive meaningful action: "The incentive has to overcome the friction," he notes, suggesting that strong promotions or sweepstakes might be necessary to motivate viewers.
Perhaps most compelling is the analysis of how Walmart and Amazon are increasingly encroaching on each other's territories – Amazon expanding same-day grocery delivery while Walmart grows its marketplace and ad business. This competitive dynamic creates benefits through innovation, with Brad observing: "There's a bigger thing at play called the love economy... for retailers, there is your favorite. I'm in a pinch, what am I going to go to? They're trying to earn the shopper's trust through brand love."
Whether you're a retail professional, brand marketer, or simply curious about how commerce is evolving, this episode delivers valuable insights wrapped in an authentic, vibrant conversation. Subscribe to Retail Media Vibes for more thought-provoking discussions on the future of retail and commerce!
What's up party people? Bv here and welcome to episode 2 of the retail media vibes podcast, a doing business in Bentonville podcast. I am recording retail media vibes at podcast video studios here in Rogers, Arkansas. So if you ever want to create your own podcast and have a professional place to go and get hooked up, I encourage you to visit Podcast Videos here in Rogers Arkansas. So before we get into the show today, just a little disclaimer All of the opinions expressed are my own and are not necessarily reflective of past, present or future employers. And with that on with the show, All right, today we're going to start off with Vibe Chat, where we get a chance to meet our guest today and we get to know a good friend of mine, longtime friend, Brad Godwin. Hi, Brad, How's it going?
Speaker 2:Man, it's Friday and it's a beautiful day in Northwest Arkansas, so I got my hoodie on because it's fall-esque. Yes, it is, and I got a good coffee and all is good. We're going to talk some retail media today.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we are. Yeah, I think it's perfect to have you on the show. I think Brad is Mr Vibes Rand. You are like you are the. When I think of vibes, I think of Brad, and I'm sure those that know you probably feel the same way. So obviously we want to get to know a little bit about you for the audience and those that are tuning in. So tell me a little bit about Brad. What would you say you do? Oh, that's a great question.
Speaker 2:I always like to kind of do an inverse answer OK, because maybe that's part of the Brad vibes that I like to bring to the world, because maybe that's part of the Brad vibes that I like to bring to the world. But I get to be a husband, first and foremost to my wife Leslie, who is a just rocking entrepreneur here in northwest Arkansas, helping emerging brands get into Walmart and started her company Godwin Retail Group. I get to be a dad. I've got four daughters, three here on earth, one in heaven. My oldest daughter's name's Dia and she's a seventh grader, and then I have a fourth grader named Aria and a four and a half year old named Evie. So those are my primary jobs of what I get to do. And then, vocationally, I get to come alongside a company called Break Time Media, based out of Boston, massachusetts, boston.
Speaker 1:I love Boston. I know You're a Boston guy. You're a Boston guy.
Speaker 2:Shout out to my homies up in Boston, but we get to help build really cool interactive digital experiences for brands that drive commerce, and so I get to drink a lot of coffee with folks in Northwest Arkansas. You have one here, I have one here from Heroes. We get to talk life and I think that's what's so cool about Northwest Arkansas is being in this space and being in this industry and working in tech, quite frankly, sometimes can feel less than human, right, you know, because technology we'll talk a little bit about some of that today, but I think what's so cool and why I've stayed in the industry as long as I have, and I think how we met and our friendship that's budded has been because of human connection and getting to hear people not just, oh, what do you do for a living, but who are you Right, what are you about? Because we're all more than just what our jobs are or our titles are, and so, yeah, that's a little bit about who I am.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I mean you. You hit on some really great points there and I think that was you know. When I talk about Mr Vibes, like for you, it's really about the humanity that you bring to the work and to your relationships and to those you lead and coach and manage and and so forth, and how important that is in today's day and age, cause I think sometimes we get too focused on outcomes and process and numbers and dollars and all that stuff and that's all important. Of course, we all want to be successful in the jobs that we do and those things are indicators of how things are going, but you still need to have that human connection and I think that's an important part. I think you do a great job of bringing that and obviously that's a part that I've loved about you when, um, when we've gotten to know each other over the over the years.
Speaker 2:So it's interesting. You said that and I just something just came to mind this was not on script, but I'll just say it anyway is I was talking to a guy who just moved here to the United States from Argentina and I said what's the biggest difference from Argentina to the United States? He lives here in Bentonville and he's like oh easy. And I was like okay, what is it? And he's like, oh, you guys just ask wrong questions.
Speaker 1:Wrong questions.
Speaker 2:Huh, well, give me an example. He said well, when you meet someone in Argentina, whether you're at a bar or a restaurant or just out in public, you ask what do you do for fun In the United States? You ask, what do you do for a living, you know? And so I think it's something. It's a good reminder in that conversation of, yes, I'm so grateful for this industry in this space because it's been able to provide, you know, uh, vocationally for us. But I think what's even cooler is what do we do for fun? And getting to see sneakers and us to be able to talk about other things beyond just that, and I think that's what makes the work so meaningful and that's, quite frankly, why great work gets done.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, absolutely yeah, I think a lot of us. I think our identity is based upon what we do for a living. I mean, I moved here from DFW almost almost 13 years ago and you know I had nobody here, right, and so I moved here. All of my friends you know the people I have close to me that aren't my family are because of my job, right, and you know people I've met and I met you as a partner in the work and you got to know you better and there's so many people that you know I have really great relationships with and I love. So much is based upon my work. So, in a way, for me, my work is my identity and what I do, and because it's been so much of what you know who I am today, so it's really really cool, really really cool.
Speaker 1:So let's, let's, let's just one little icebreaker question. I have several, but I think we're going a little long, so it was one, a one little icebreaker question. So what it? What? What is your most recent e-commerce purchase? What was the most recent thing you thought you purchased?
Speaker 2:online. Well, this is like real-world confessions, because I don't think my wife knows about this purchase yet, because it happened last night.
Speaker 1:Hopefully it's not like a gift. No, not a gift.
Speaker 2:I recently stayed at an Airbnb, and at the Airbnb that I stayed at they had this really cool French press and electric kettle that you can set for coffee tea and it heats the water to the exact temperature. So I ordered both of those last night. Hopefully they should be arriving tomorrow. So, surprise babe, we got some new coffee equipment coming. But yeah, that was my latest e-commerce purchase yeah that's.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's so funny how you get inspired to buy a certain item and then now, obviously, with you know, the ubiquity of to be able to purchase something at any time for any reason just makes that process so frictionless right at this stage. For me it actually was. So Nike you know, you and I both have an affection for Nike very heavily. They just released and did a partnership with Lego and they just released some Lego, like a Lego kit with Nike dunks and the Lego figure is dunking the ball, and so I kind of got wrapped up in the moment, got wrapped up in the hype. You know, what was funny too is on my last episode we were talking about this whole trend around cadult right, adults that are buying things that would normally be for kids and I was like, hey, I just fell into that cohort immediately with the Lego and Nike thing. So I'm looking forward to putting it together and putting it in my office. So, all right, so that's what I purchased man.
Speaker 2:So, all right, so that's what I purchased, man, and it's interesting, this merger as a parent, yeah, because you know you have kids as well. I think it's not just about you know. Yes, there's the inner child that, like, loves those playful things, but there's also looking for, again, going back to that human connection, ways that I can connect with my kids. Oh, yeah, yeah, and not go. Hey, you got to do the things I care about, right, but oh my gosh, you really care about this. I really care about this, like Mario Brothers, right, and that movie came out. I'm like this is hitting at my childhood, yeah, and y'all now love Mario Brothers movie. This is a coming together moment, right, this is a coming together moment and an opportunity, not just selfishly for me to be like I love Super Mario Brothers, but to be able to engage with my family in a meaningful way too, which is just awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it definitely brings the family together and there's obviously that feeling of nostalgia is a very powerful feeling, and the ability to bring your family together around some of these IP is super, super cool. For me, when my kids were young, it was Star Wars. Star Wars is really what brought us together, and Spider-Man, you know, and so Marvel, and obviously it's all expanded from there. So, yeah, really cool, really cool. All right, let's move on now to let's talk about some topics. Right, let's go.
Speaker 1:I think you and I could just chit-chat all day, but that's not what everybody wants to hear, right? They want us to talk about some things that might be going on in the retail space, in the media space. So let's do a couple of quick hits right out the gate, right? So this week, taco Bell. All right, taco Bell. I know how much you love Taco Bell. Taco Bell is rethinking using AI in the drive-thru and this was obviously related to some things that happened. I think some guy ordered like 18,000 waters from you. Know, it's like okay, maybe AI wasn't the right solution there. I think sometimes we're throwing AI at the wrong things to solve it. I'm not saying whether or not that's the right thing or not, but what was your gut reaction when you heard that? To me it was like duh, not a surprise.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I had two visceral reactions. One is what in the world are they thinking? And two is I know exactly what they're thinking. Taco Bell just wants to be talked about, and they have been the leader in QSR for decades in doing things that were crazy. Not necessarily for those things themselves to be the profitability driver of the business, but guess what? It's called earned media.
Speaker 1:And guess what we're talking about it?
Speaker 2:on a podcast because of that and so I think so much of what they do and I think the folks I knew, some folks that worked in brand there they were looking for shock value and I think they've really re-imagined that brand over the last decade into a one that Gen Z resonates with.
Speaker 2:And so whether things work or don't work from a functional, quantitative. Oh my gosh, this doesn't make any sense. I think some of it I don't want to say it's a PR stunt, necessarily, but I don't think they hate it. Right, it got picked up and talked about and went viral. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I think, think you know different companies are going to try ai in different ways and sometimes it's going to work out. Sometimes, and, to be fair, taco bell is not the only quick qsr that uses ai in the drive-thru, right? So it's just they're rethinking it a little bit, totally so. Another quick hit is so the UK retailer, tesco. They just launched an avocado tester. Like I love avocado, I eat avocado a lot, but this avocado tester is a handheld scanner that will scan your avocado and tell you how ripe it is. So obviously that's a little bit closer to the retail that we know and love on a daily basis. For sure. But, like you know, is that just technology For technology's sake. Do you see that really something that I think more stores should adopt? I mean, what are your thoughts?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I actually was having lunch with a merchant at Walmart yesterday and we were talking about not just this specific topic of the avocado but like what are pain points for shoppers that might not come out like just in data, right Right, and you have to kind of watch and start to talk and you know one of the things I think for me, I love making homemade guacamole. Yeah, for me, I love making homemade guacamole. There's nothing worse than getting avocados and cutting into them and being like these are garbage.
Speaker 1:Yeah, can't use it.
Speaker 2:Now I got so stoked my wife specifically got stoked for fresh table-side guac at home to know we're not having it, or if we try to have it, it tastes like garbage, right, and so I think that's really meeting a need. I don't think it's tech for tech sake. I think it's going hey, there's a human problem, yeah, of I can't see inside this thing, yeah, and I don't know what's right and there's a lot of like. You can do research of like you.
Speaker 2:You knock on it you look for a certain color, you squeeze it but I can say with great certainty, as I've tried all of them them are reliable, right, and so if this is a new reliable and I think the key is is it scalable, like what's the cost?
Speaker 1:of having that at a store level, but I think it goes back to I mean, every produce department has a scale, so why not?
Speaker 2:You feel like you can integrate that in and it's about delight yeah, that's the word. Like when I read that article it's like, oh, they're delighting shoppers yeah you're removing the risk of.
Speaker 1:When I buy avocados I know for sure I'm getting the right one and I'm going to be able to execute right my meal or the dish or the recipe that I'm wanting to, yeah, confidence as a shopper, right, it's psychologically that helps a lot, right, so you have to trust that what you're buying is something that you can actually use. So I absolutely love it. All right, let's get into some of our big topics today. So you know, the first topic we're going to talk about is staffing, resourcing and hiring in this world that you and I live in on a day-to-day basis, which is retail media, right, and so $61.2 billion is going to retail media spend in 2025. And that's a huge number and it's a huge increase. It's driving this demand for resources for people that actually know what they're doing, skilled talent that really know retail.
Speaker 1:You and I have been in retail for a long time, and so we've grown up in it. But if you have a lot of people who work in the media space and they don't understand retail, there's that, that, that switch, that of switching over. Really try, really trying to understand the retail, because the retail channel is quite a bit different and even in the world where, like some of the advertising jobs actually have kind of declined, retail media is still they still exploding absolutely, and so everybody is competing for like in this space, right, whether it be an agency, a retailer, a brand suppliers they're all looking for the same people. I mean, obviously, here in Northwest Arkansas, we know a lot of people and know the movement that takes place between all of those entities right here in this market. And the idea too is like, with Omnichannel, right, and retail media and the definition of that continuing to expand, right, you know, retail media is now in store, right, retail media is in store. Retail media are sponsored search ads. Retail media is now and we'll talk about it in a little bit connected TV.
Speaker 1:Like the expectation is that you know all of these channels right, and I've been in the room, I've been in the room, I've been in those conversations. It just puts so much pressure on having the right people and I even contend do you even have the right team right? Do you have even the right team to service that? And so I think it puts a lot of pressure on individuals and you and I, you know we talk a lot about the people side of things and I think that also even indicates a level or drives a level of stress, you know, in order to cover all that. So I think like there's real pressure here. And then you throw in the AI component. Right, oh is you know. Ai is going to come in and make this easier. Now I work in a in an AI tech startup.
Speaker 2:I know how hard it is to get AI to do what you really want it to do, no matter what you know.
Speaker 1:Sam Altman says it's definitely very difficult. So you know, we can approach this from a few different angles, right, you know. But I would say I would start with, like, if you were trying to resource a team for retail media, specifically in this market, knowing what you know, how would you start? Like, where would you start? Would you start with, like you know, bringing people in from outside of retail media and training them? Would you start from scratch and bring people in and raise them up? How would you approach really trying to address all of these things that were have going on at the same time?
Speaker 2:it's a great question. I know it's like they should start a start a staffing uh consultancy company to talk through this, because I think it's it's not only a current issue, but it's something that I think every company is going to need a perspective on right. You know, and you've seen a lot of I have the luxury of getting to work with a lot of different people.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:From traditional agencies to CPG manufacturers, fortune 500 to, you know, enterprise kind of level down to startups, yeah, and you see different, varying approaches. Some are oh, is this e-comm?
Speaker 2:Right, so the e-comm sales team needs to do it. So I think the first place I would start is do I want to do this from an owned and operated perspective? Do I want this to be an in-house capability of our organization? So if I'm ex-CPG, what do I want to do? Do I want to have that talent in-house or do I want to have part of that talent in-house and then use external services such as a media agency or a shop or commerce agency, et cetera? And I think there's pros and cons to both.
Speaker 2:I've seen organizations kind of take that and so setting that framework of what is our perspective of? Do we want to own the whole thing or do what role do we want to play within the organization? And then I just like in all things and I think that there's nothing new under the sun, ai is not the first technology to disrupt the world and it will absolutely not be the last. I think it's it's it's the hot, hot thing if you go back a few years nfts oh yeah, web 3 rest in peace web 3.0 metaverse.
Speaker 1:I mean that was we're gonna be shopping in the metaverse everything was.
Speaker 2:I mean, at every conference I went to it was metaverse, metaverse, metaverse, nfts, you know, non-fungible, tokensible tokens.
Speaker 1:I don't know what that is.
Speaker 2:But like that's not even been mentioned recently, and so I do think it's a balance of going, diversity Right, of taking, and I think great problems are solved through diversity of thinking Right and diversity of experience. And so when you go, hey, retail is its own dynamic Right, and so it's probably not wise to bring a bunch of people who live in a certain market let's call it a major media market like New York city and just go. We've got a ton of media folks that have only ever done media, throw them in and let let's let them be our whole team.
Speaker 1:Right Now, yeah, it's a cross pollination that needs to happen, right, hey? What if?
Speaker 2:you have some folks that are deep retail experts, that grew up in retail. You marry those with deep media experts. You come into some brand storytelling, so people that are maybe classically trained in brand, yeah. And then you have folks that understand the mechanics of sales.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Of like what does it look like to work with a merchant? What are the problems with site merch? And how do I, how do I get things done? Actually, because I think one of the things that that can be a tendency is you get into this hypothetical world. Oh well, we get in a room and we come up with all these ideas for our retail media strategy. Well, can you execute it? And do you have the capabilities or the skill sets to do hands-on keyboard? As of July 1st, a lot of the stuff here is you have to do it. It's self-serve right and so do you have the talent to not just theoretically understand it but functionally execute it? And I think you need a balance of both.
Speaker 1:Honestly, I knew a lot of people scrambling at that time. I think what Brad is referring to is Walmart went from a lot of their media being managed service to hands-on keyboard, which basically means anyone can have a login and actually set up their own media, and so that transition for so many brands was so disruptive, right, because all of a sudden, you know I don't have somebody else doing it for me. I have to actually go in there and do it myself, and what levers do I pull and what do I set up and how do I put a daily budget in All of those things that go along with that. I would say, though, you know, on the Walmart Connect side, I do think they do a fair job at training and provide a lot of support from a training perspective, because that's one of the areas that, you know, for me personally, I'm passionate about is training and development.
Speaker 1:For sure, and I think you know, like you have, in this world where retail media experts are not necessarily all going to be falling from the trees, you've got to figure out a way to do a ground-up approach as well, almost an apprenticeship model, and have a have a have a structured training type of development plan like help people understand and all of the different aspects, right that that in that go into today's retail, media, retail marketer, omni-channel shopper market, whatever you want to call it, because it has like 52 names, but I do think it's. It's that development and that structure has to be there, otherwise, you know, nobody has time to just oh, come along with me to this meeting and you'll figure it out as we go, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's interesting, the word expert that gets thrown around a lot Like you'll read a job description, it's like, oh, we need 15 years experience, like if you go into any other field psychology I have a lot of friends that are like, in counseling or therapists, law yeah, experts is like decades Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this hasn't even really been around, no, for decades. No, this is a relatively new discipline. And so I do think that the ongoing curiosity of individuals like I think this is great to have the conversation for companies, but if you're a listener and you're going, hey, I'm sitting here in Northwest Arkansas and I'm a national account manager, I'm in sales or I'm a merchant at Walmart or at Sam's Club or you know whatever to be able to say there's a curiosity of ongoing learning, and I think what you're speaking to with those Walmart Connect certifications and the online training portal, I mean that's best in class, right, because you can come on and start with basic and get to, I would say, relatively complex, and that's up to you. They put that in the hands of the user. And so if that's something you're sitting here going, oh, this is really interesting. And oh, yeah, maybe I think five years ago it was a nice to have.
Speaker 2:It wasn't a mandatory, depending on your role. I think now, now in 2025 and as we go into 2026, everyone in the organization needs to have some knowledge, at least at a theoretical level, of how is this, how does it work and what is the impact and how is it different.
Speaker 1:Right, and I think I think that's the part that gets missed quite often is like how is this different? We're just talking about banner ads, right, you know, and it's, it's not. There's more more to it. Absolutely. And again, as we mentioned this earlier, but, as you know, retail media continues to expand and, you know, more tactics start to get thrown in the bucket, like how do you make all of those work and orchestrate media that is actually going to to to work for that specific retailer, for your brand? Absolutely, so awesome. Yeah, I'm really interested in the space and, again, as I have conversations with more and more people and, just, you know, trying to hear more about, like, how things are continuing to to grow and evolve in the space, and so, you know, we'll see'll see how it shakes out.
Speaker 1:Man, it's a crazy time for sure in retail media, all right, so we're going to move on to our next topic, and it's still talking about retail media, but we're actually talking about another channel within the retail media space that all of a sudden has kind of blown up, I guess this year. So last year it was in-store retail media was all the buzz. Everybody was talking about in-store retail media and like, how do we? You know how do you do it. Retailers were investing in signage, you know, tv screens and stores, but now it feels like that's pivoted a little bit and now the new darling is connected TV or CTV, right, and so retail media, connected TV ad spend is going to plan on growing almost 50%, 45.5% this year, and it's growing three times faster than retail search, which is not necessarily a surprise because I feel like retail search is pretty saturated, right, you kind of hit that saturation point, but it's definitely growing. By 2027, one in five US connected TV ad dollars could flow through retail media networks. So again, that's continuing to more and more money is getting put into that.
Speaker 1:Walmart acquired Vizio, right, so that was a big play for for them in 2024. Amazon obviously has Prime Video and they have ads in Prime Video, so they're playing a big part and obviously Walmart ends and Amazon are the big players and in retail media. So it's, you know, trying to figure out where connected TV really fits into this omni-channel retail media equation is really interesting to me Because on one hand it's really, you know, it's kind of top of funnel, right, and you know, I think there are some tactical and we'll talk about those as well, but tactical ways that try to make it more bottom of funnel, which I think you and I have some questions on the efficacy of that right, but you know, is connected TV.
Speaker 1:You know you think about retail media budgets. They don't typically, aren't typically as large, as you know, big brand, but are above the line budgets, national media budgets you have. Also you have brands that are smaller, have smaller budgets. Connected TV is expensive, it's very expensive. The CPMs are very, very high and so you're trying to manage the value, even though you're trying to do awareness and you understand you're trying to get reach and reach to a specific audience. Does that equation actually play out? So, from your perspective and just what you've seen with connected TV, you know, what role do you really see it having a practical play within a retail media plan, if you will, or strategy, that's?
Speaker 2:a great, again great question. You know I think you look before I answer that I think you have to take one step back of going like what's been the historical downfall of traditional TV advertising Right. Because cable networks are not necessarily thriving and haven't been for a decade.
Speaker 1:Maybe that's Definitely over the last several years it's changed quite a bit. It's changed right.
Speaker 2:And so you've got streaming services that are now, and most of the major networks now have their own streaming services, like Peacock and others from NBC, and so there's been kind of a pivot. That industry has made a pivot, and I think that as retail media, the secret sauce is those audiences and understanding shopper behavior in a really compelling manner. And if you walmart, you go, guess what? We've got 150 million weekly shoppers. Guess what they probably do watch tv and watch these streaming services. And so if I'm an advertiser, I go well, I want to get, if I think back to like png and maybe this isn't even an andy murrayatchi thing of the 19 moments of truth of like all these specific touch points in a shopper or a human's life.
Speaker 2:Well, now you can come into their living room or on their device, real time, right. And so I do think that there's an intimacy of that ad unit, if you will, comparatively to others within the traditional retail media spin, and so you know, I think it's something that's not going anywhere. I think it's like the data tells that there's going to be continued investment. I think the balance is what is the goal of that part of the broader plan, right, right. And so how do our tactics go in unison, rather than just go oh, here's our key visual and here's our creative campaign, let's throw it on on here and you scan this code and it goes here. But being able to be very decisive of what is the objective and then when because it probably won't be on every campaign, yeah, it'll be for certain moments that really make sense for the shopper.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think that that's something that, with the folks that I've been meeting with recently at WMC even a few weeks ago I was talking to Chad Bernstein, who's one of the industry leads over health and wellness, and his comment was we've got to make sure, just like Mr Sam talked about, the shopper is always at the center of what we do, and that we don't sell tactics, we sell solutions that are shopper-centric. And so I think the connected TV can go back into that kind of dynamic of meeting the shopper where they're at in a really compelling manner.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I think it's no surprise to anyone that everyone's attention is now fractionalized more than it's ever been before. Right, you have more choice on where you spend your, your attention. I think you know you and I were talking earlier about you know, your two screen experience, right, you have something going on on TV Plus. You've got your phone in your hand as you're, you know. You know we'll say you're co-watching, right, co-watching, right, co-watching the programming and paying attention to all of the ads, I'm sure. Right, because you are an amazing marketer.
Speaker 1:But you know, in those scenarios now you're starting to see some of these ways in which you can exit the funnel, you know, into conversion, right, or at least these attempts to do that, whether it be a QR code or you take your remote and you can add something and send it to your phone with certain networks, like, I mean, I do that out of curiosity as a marketer and really curious and interested. Like, do you feel that others are doing that as well? Is this just kind of a ruse? I don't want to say a ruse, but is this really just a way like, oh, this is a top-of-the-funnel opportunity awareness, but guess what? You can also sell something at the same time, so we get to eject out of the funnel at a different part, right? So I'm just curious on what your point of view is on, really, on the part of how do you transact or how you convert with these, when really, if you ever looked at a commercial before, it was always about awareness, telling the story, trying to brand, lift, etc.
Speaker 2:Now we're giving these exit strategies yeah, well, first off, we got to give a moment to whoever the PR person is for QR codes. Because, they came, then they went, they got ushered back in during COVID and now they are back in full force. Don't call it a comeback. It's a comeback of the year QR codes, but I think you know, as you were referencing, I just love to look at human behavior.
Speaker 2:Yeah, me too, I think human behavior is in watching my kids, watching my spouse watching, like, observing myself and my own behavior. And this is a confession, real-world confession here of like, most of the time when there is something on the TV, I am primarily looking at my phone first, yeah, and so I think that could be really interesting as a 2.0 of connected TV, of will they ever be able to tell that, hey, I'm watching this screen, I also have, I'm in this household and I'm on this device. Is there a way to marry those simultaneously? Maybe a little freaky for some, but I think the capability can be there to achieve that, but I do think it's one of those. Now, it's not every commercial is shoppable, but I do think it's going to get to a place where everyone starts to do it and go. At what point is that content that compelling? That I'm going to get to a place where everyone starts to do it right, go like, at what point is that content that compelling?
Speaker 2:right that you're going to stop everything that I'm going to stop everything else I'm doing to scan that to now I think, if it's like, let's say, there's a promotion, yeah, absolutely promotion like I can save a dollar off. I think promotion, that could be a huge unlock. I think sweepstakes like hey, enter to win. Oh, I watch this. Oh, I can enter a window trip to hawaii from you know, sun made, yeah, a brand, the incentive has to overcome the friction totally right.
Speaker 1:And so if the, if the in the formula right, if the incentive is strong enough, then you will get people to to do it right. And I mean that you see that in in any situation. You have a, you have a display in store that's talking about a sweepstake, it's if it's easy for someone to sign up, then they will do it. If the, if the value of the prize is a million, you put a, you put a end cap or you put a display, a display in a store that says you can win a million dollars, I guarantee you're going to get a lot of entries right. I mean, it's just because that's, you know, that equation, that value equation for time versus effort, leans towards. I'll put in the effort, absolutely. Yeah, I think you know.
Speaker 1:I do think, like connected TV, like anything, to your point, it depends on what you're trying to achieve and what you're trying to do. You're trying to get eyeballs, you're trying to get attention. Your audience is on that specific. You know programming, you know you may be an underdeveloped brand or a new product and you're trying to bring in a market. And you've got to do education. I think there is definitely a lot of opportunity and I do think there is more to thinking about. How do you, what does conversion really look like? Right, and I think also the measurement side of things aren't really well developed as well, and at that stage I mean, I'm sure you know a lot of really smart retailers are figuring that out. So I'm not saying that it won't ever, ever get there, but I think that also, when you look at how much it's going to cost to do this and what the measurement and value you get out of it, if you're not looking at things holistically, it may not look like the best decision every single time for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, and you saw, even last night it was the start of the NFL season on.
Speaker 1:NBC.
Speaker 2:And you know, with the partnership with NBCUniversal and Walmart and the shopability of now going, you're now giving like as a Walmart marketer or even as a brand team that really needs to win there. I now have the ability to show up in major live sports with a commerce activity which I didn't previously have access to. It's a new lever right, and so I think you know people have asked this like well, what should I do? How should I think about this? You should try it, test it, test and learn, see how it works.
Speaker 1:You know, you never.
Speaker 2:I think sometimes it's easy to sit behind a mic or a table and go, oh, ultimatums. It either is horrible or it's the best thing ever, and I think again, it's situational.
Speaker 1:But nobody likes the, it depends Brad.
Speaker 2:Nobody likes it, depends Hard maybe on that.
Speaker 1:But I mean, I think it's smart with sports, right? Because and I don't have the numbers in front of me, but sports definitely is something that everyone watches. At the same time, you know, you get huge audiences for live sporting events. That's why there's been so much investment in buying into a lot of these leagues by different streaming services. I think this year is going to be really interesting, trying to watch the NFL across all of the partnerships that they've signed on with, and so you know it's going to. You know, here's an idea Go create a website that actually helps people find NFL games, if that doesn't already exist, right.
Speaker 2:Yes, let's go Cool.
Speaker 1:All right, so let's move on to our third main topic tonight and that's, you know, amazon. It's just really interesting. So, you know, again, you and I have been in this space quite a while and we've kind of seen the evolution, right, and we've looked at Amazon and we've looked at Walmart and obviously been very close to Walmart here in northwest Arkansas and they've made a lot of moves in retail and commerce that you know are very interesting to me. You know they've been rivals, right. You have these two behemoths in their own, in their own right, for a lot of reasons. You know, amazon offers different, some differences than Walmart and Walmart offers some differences than Amazon. But, like you know, with the announcement of Amazon going to same-day grocery delivery, you know, in 1,000 cities and then expanding to 2,300, and they're growing in their online grocery and essentials right, which is an area that Walmart has owned right, dominated, absolutely dominated right, dominated right. And then Walmart is really, you know, adding marketplace. You know marketplace sellers, their ad business is continuing to to grow. I think their ad revenue is up 26% year-on-year, so continued it. So that was an area where Amazon dominated right.
Speaker 1:And so you have these two behemoths and one is kind of getting into a space that one was really strong at, and then vice versa. And then you know, we just talked about Connected TV. Both have Connected TV, connected TV plays. So, like, what are your thoughts on, like, when you get into this space where you have these two big companies and one is trying to add things that the other one is doing and, and you know, is that really, is that good for the consumer, is that good for our industry? Like, what are your? What are your? What are your thoughts there?
Speaker 2:yeah, uh, I think competition in all areas of life are good yeah, as a well, he used to be at nike right n it's, it's it's. Competition drives innovation. Yeah, it does in every industry. It does in every sector Um and so when there's no competition, things get stagnant.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, cause there's no need to innovate.
Speaker 2:Why? Why do we need to roll out a new capability or, you know, a new service? And so I think that that's been the expansion. Of both entities have benefited from the other, and so one of the things that's been really interesting. Going back to our very first question about talent, there's also been a lot of cross-pollination of talent Former Walmart folks that are now over there, a lot of former.
Speaker 2:Amazon folks that are now over at Walmart, because diversity of thinking approaches solving problems through a different lens, and I think that that's if I've observed Walmart in the last 36 months, specifically looking at them first. They're reinventing themselves and I think it's not as surprising for us that are here and get a front row seat For the national media they're a little shocked. Like wait, Gen Z is loving Walmart as a brand more than Target.
Speaker 1:What.
Speaker 2:There's no way they love Walmart more than Target. But you start to go. Well, think about what they've done, think about their ad campaigns, think about the services they provide. Think about now millennials are having families and Walmart's you know the place you can go shop for everything.
Speaker 2:At a low, everyday, low price. There's trust that they have, and so you know one of the things that I'm kind of the pivot of Amazon. They've been sitting here and they're not stupid, they're looking and going. Man, walmart does grocery really well, yeah, and they've done it really well for a long time, both in physical stores and now with online pickup and delivery and now same day express delivery. I mean, I can get stuff to my house in an hour. Yeah, that's crazy.
Speaker 2:I mean to think about three or four years ago to go. I can get my groceries I need. I'm missing this item and I'm making this recipe. I don't have to get out and I can still do this Like that's, that's pretty.
Speaker 1:That's such a good point too because I mean, obviously, convenience is a driver, right, that's why people pay, spend a lot of money on DoorDash, right, absolutely, you could go to the McDonald's and get the food, or you could have somebody bring it to you, right, and so you pay for that convenience. It's so interesting because I remember back in the Peapod days, right. So Peapod was grocery delivery Totally. I think what was that like early 2000s-ish, 2005, 2006. Yeah, right, but it could never make money.
Speaker 1:But now, obviously, you think about where we are and being able to get things from Walmart in an hour or get them overnight, depending on what shipping option you select or if you have a Walmart Plus membership or Prime. It makes it so much more convenient. You've got to think about the logistics. Logistics, I think everybody sees on the surface, oh well, of course they can just mail it to me or they can just drop it by. I mean, a guy drives up in my driveway and puts it on my doorstep, right. But the logistics that go into that and the planning and all of that, right.
Speaker 1:And so it's really interesting because Walmart is leveraging their strength of their stores for an advantage there, right, amazon leverages their strength on e-commerce delivery right through their logistics channel for their advantage.
Speaker 1:There, right, amazon leverages their strength on e-commerce delivery right through their logistics channel for their advantage, and so now you're starting to kind of see both of those kind of coinciding, and I think it just sets the expectation for shoppers that, no matter what I want, no matter who I buy it from, to a certain extent not all things, but to a certain extent I can get it as fast as an hour or so, and so it's just interesting to see how these two behemoths, as we said earlier, have evolved. And I would also say that I've been very close to Walmart for about 13 years, that I've been very close to Walmart for about 13 years, and I would say the last three for Walmart have been, by far and away, have really gone off the charts as far as the ability to execute much faster, much better than the previous year. So it's really been exciting to see that happen.
Speaker 2:Well, and the other thing when you look at the two, I think Walmart did a really good job and it's evolved, and I think great companies pivot, yeah, and they don't have ego in the sense of like, no, we're riding this thing. Maybe some do. But if you look at Prime you mentioned Walmart Plus Prime's been around. It's the bread and butter kind of like loyalty, self-love platform of like, hey, I'm going to be a Prime member, I get access to Prime Video, I get you know delivery at a certain timetable that they've set as now the industry kind of expectation of two days or less. And Walmart, when they launched Walmart Plus to what it is now, it looks a lot different.
Speaker 2:You know they launched it with certain benefits of what do shoppers really want, and some of those things were right and some of those things were maybe a little off. And I think that when I was reading an article yesterday that said you know the things that they're starting to add on to Walmart Plus fuel, you know girls in there yeah, like well, gas prices are not, you know, unpredictable at best right, and so, for families, paramount. I get now get streaming, so it's like one less thing that maybe I was doing yeah or using.
Speaker 2:It's not just seeing Walmart Plus as a cost center to a shopper. It's seeing it as a value creator and it's not just oh yes, we're giving them values, but we're building long-term relationship, and I think that that's something they're both fine. You talked about the attention kind of economy. I would also like to say there's a bigger thing at play.
Speaker 2:It's called the love economy of like who you can't love, everybody you know, or maybe you can try to be nice to everybody, but, like for retailers, there is your kind of favorite. Yeah, of like I'm in a pinch, what am I going to go to? And I think they're trying to earn the shopper's trust through brand love. And I think walmart, with their even recent ad campaign of like kind of that, did you know?
Speaker 2:right, I bet you didn't know this with goggins beautifully shot, yeah, and it hits a human truth. Yeah, oh, I had no idea, and so it'll be really interesting get our popcorn and watch this kind of continue to play out, and I would imagine if we sit down in this exact place in a year, it'll be interesting to see what we're talking about, because I think they're both innovating at the speed of light right now and ultimately, you know who wins the shopper right.
Speaker 1:That's ultimately who wins right, and that's in that scenario. So it's an exciting, really an exciting time, because I do think, to a certain extent, both are playing on a level field in certain areas, both have strengths, both have opportunities and I think they're really trying to maximize those opportunities and leveraging their strengths to do so. So it's really going to be interesting to see. But, like I said before, we're going to win. Yeah, we are definitely going to win. All right, we're ready now to move on to game time. Game time Are you ready for a game, brad, I love games. Would you like to play a game? Yes, all right, we're going to play a game. It's called Vibe Check and it's really simple. I'm going to throw out a statement and you give me your first gut reaction right, all right, are you ready? Let's go. Okay, let's do it. All right, so don't overthink it. First statement AI will solve retail media resourcing challenges. What's your gut say?
Speaker 2:No no.
Speaker 1:Really.
Speaker 2:You sure it's hard. Now what will? Oh man, that's even a harder one. I think it's getting people in a room with diverse perspectives. I'm going to go back to that of like that, want to seek to understand and be curious and are willing to test and learn to get to the right fit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I cheated there. I wasn't supposed to ask you a follow-up question.
Speaker 2:It's okay, my bad, we'll play the game.
Speaker 1:Connected TV will be the most important retail media channel within five years no, no.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think it's going to be an important one.
Speaker 1:I don't think it's going to be the most important one I guess it also depends on whose perspective it is right, is it so? Um, all right, so all right. Here's another one. Retail media is just shopper marketing with a new name.
Speaker 2:No, there's a trend.
Speaker 1:It's no.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I'm just giving you all the no's, I mean I think retail media is combining the worlds of media with creative practices that are retail-centric, right for the shopper of the target. Guest versus the Kroger shopper versus the public shopper are very different, and so it's. I think shopper marketing is a part of retail media. They are not synonymous with one another.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, shopper marketing has the whole psychology behind it, right, and? And so the shopper psychology, that's a key piece of shopper marketing and, yes, it plays a role in retail media, for sure, but it's not. It's not the whole thing, absolutely in retail media, for sure, but it's not the whole thing, absolutely. All right, this holiday, this holiday season coming up, more sales will happen via agentic shopping versus TikTok shops.
Speaker 2:Oh, what's your gut say I'm going to stay with TikTok because my you know, having friends that have teenagers and the consuming power of the young people, I don't think that that's going anywhere. I think it's going to continue to expand. I think there was some uncertainty last year with the political situation around TikTok. I think that has pretty much been dealt with and it's not going to be an issue. Yeah talk.
Speaker 1:I think that has pretty much been dealt with and it's not going to be an issue. Yeah for it. So I do think agentic shopping is it's. It's going to be a key time period for agentic shopping absolutely as well. So we'll see we'll see more.
Speaker 2:We'll see how that plays. January will tell the tell yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there will probably be a million podcasts that will talk about agentic shopping over the retail, retail or the holiday season. For sure, all right, dunkin' is better than Starbucks. No, no, come on, I know your company is from Boston.
Speaker 2:But, as we, no one probably knows this, but I don't even know if you know this but not only did I start my career at Nike, but I spent three years working at Starbucks in college down in Fayetteville when there was one Starbucks in Northwest Arkansas, and I actually met my wife in the Starbucks drive-thru. So I am not only a Nike former Nike guy, but I am a partner from Starbucks. So I have a loyalty to them and, on a total side note, excited to where that company's going. I think they've got great leadership right now as a stockholder and excited to see where they go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, don't interpret that as financial advice.
Speaker 2:Yep, that is not investing advice, that's just as a former partner, all right, and finally, Taylor Swift's engagement to Travis Kelsey is the event of the year. Yes, oh, I did a pivot as a dad of three daughters and a wife. You know, having a wife who loves Taylor Swift, I not only think it might be the event of the year, but I think I'm going to be a little more bold. I think Taylor Swift could be the most successful CMO out there. I think she is a brilliant marketer, brand storyteller.
Speaker 1:Or has somebody that works for her.
Speaker 2:Everything she's doing or the people she's surrounding herself with are absolutely masterful at capturing attention of the world. So there you go Awesome.
Speaker 1:That's a great way to wrap it up. You know, it would be amazing if that wedding was televised. It would be like probably the most watched anything. It would probably rival, you know, the Royals getting married and so forth. You know, even in today's day of of, you know, this fractionalized attention timeframe that we have now, um, so, yeah, well, a great way to great way to go out. All right, party people, it is time to wrap this one up. Um, I hope you've enjoyed the vibes in the show today. So I want to huge thank you to Brad for sharing his thoughts, his vibes, his love with us today. Brad, do you have any last words? No, I just think that Anything you'd like to plug.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know the industry is evolving so rapidly and so I'm excited I'll be out at Grocery Shop where I think a lot of folks will be gathering out in Las Vegas here at the end of September, beginning of October. And the thing about that show that's so cool is not just the content, it's the people. This industry is special, not because of the technology, but because of the humans that work for these technologies and develop them. And so excited to be with people and see what that looks like. And we're actually at break time. We're going to be gathering great humans in Northwest Arkansas October 7th at the record, to talk about partnership awesome, what's the power of it like to do all this stuff within retail media. It takes a village, it does. You can't do it in isolation. And so excited to be with more great people trying to have these conversations continue and discuss what the future of that looks like.
Speaker 1:Yeah, awesome, that sounds great. Yeah, I hope to be around for some of those things, so you'll get an invite, thank you. Thanks, man. Will you come back to Retail Media Vibes? Would you come back to the show? And there's really only one answer, because I'll edit it. So, yes, okay, all right. So, yes, okay, all right. No, I appreciate that, all right. So if you have any thoughts or questions or comments about Retail Media Vibes, you can go ahead and hit me up at retailmediavibes at gmailcom. Don't forget to like, subscribe. Hit the bell for notifications on the podcast. That helps out a lot, maybe. Leave a comment, leave a review. I want to thank everybody so much for listening and, as always, I will, I promise. I promise to do better next time. And that's it. Bv out, peace.