Retail Media Vibes
Retail Media Vibes is your marketing lens on the world of shopping, commerce, and culture. Each episode brings fresh conversations with industry insiders who break down the stories driving how brands reach shoppers and how shoppers connect with brands. From big retail moments to the latest shifts in digital media, it’s your front-row seat to the strategies shaping the future of commerce.
We keep it smart, energetic, and actionable, mixing sharp analysis with good vibes so you walk away informed and inspired. Whether you’re a retail pro, a marketer looking for an edge, or simply curious about where the industry is headed, this podcast is made for you.
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Retail Media Vibes
Ep. 4 - From Roblox to Retail: The New Ad Game
Attention has moved where play lives, and that’s exactly where we go today. We sit down with Joel Ponce, CEO and co-founder of Hashku, to break down how gaming, retail media, and commerce now overlap in ways that actually move product. From Roblox and Fortnite worlds to mobile rewarded ads, we map the paths that turn fan energy into measurable outcomes like add-to-cart, store visits, and loyalty that lasts beyond the campaign.
Joel shares how major IP shifted from TV to shelf to immersive spaces, and why “scan to play” on-pack can outperform static signage by creating value at home. We explore digital twins and limited drops that connect physical goods with avatar identity, why Gen Z rates virtual closets so highly, and how cozy gaming and mobile habits expand the audience far beyond stereotypes. If you’ve wondered where to start, we outline a practical crawl–walk–run approach, how to keep brand safety and authenticity intact, and what measurement looks like when multiple publishers speak one language.
Then we tackle AI-driven personalized pricing with clear eyes. Dynamic fares may work for flights, but grocery aisles are built on trust. We weigh the difference between volatility and value, arguing for personalized offers, access, bundles, early drops, over opaque price swings. Finally, we test Instacart’s Caper Cart as a lens on in-store innovation: wayfinding, real-time deals, and checkout speed are wins, but the economics push toward an app-first model that delivers 80 percent of the benefit with better scale and consent.
If you’re building a retail plan for 2025, this conversation will help you choose the right channels, craft native creative for gamers, and measure what matters across platforms. Subscribe, share with your team, and tell us: which bet are you making first, gaming integrations, conversational checkout, or app-powered smart cart experiences?
What's up, party people? BV here, and welcome to episode four of Retail Media Vibes, a doing business in Bentonville podcast. We are recording live here at Podcast Video Studios. The rundown for our episode this time will be gaming and advertising and commerce, AI-driven personalized pricing, kind of controversial, and Instacart CaperCard. All right, we're going to start off with VibeChat, where we get to know our guest. Today, our guest is Joel Ponce. Joel, welcome. Thank you for having me. Excited to be here. I've known Joel for a long time. Joel is the CEO and co-founder of HashCoup. Have talked to you about HashCoup quite a lot. I love what you all do from a technology and marketing standpoint. But let's let the audience get to know you a little bit and tell us a little bit about your background and obviously about HashCoup. Thanks, BB.
SPEAKER_01:Excited to be here. I moved here to Northwest, Arkansas back in 2013 to work at Sachin Sachi X. That's where you and I had a pleasure of meeting and getting a chance to work together. The home of shopper marketing and really something that was a special experience for me that really set the foundation to everything that I've gone on to do in my career so far. The last five and a half years prior to starting HashCoo, I was at Paramount. So my journey has really spanned the world of advertising, especially at the intersection of commerce, media and entertainment, and a lot of data analytics in between as well. So through that journey, I got to see the evolution of gaming, both in personal life, my nieces and nephews' lives. Should have paid more attention to them much earlier when they were asking me for Robux for Christmas gifts instead of physical toys. Yeah, that's good. That is interesting. Yeah. And then somewhere in that journey, while I was at Paramount, our Nickelodeon team uh eventually launched the Nickverse on Roblox, and that was really inspiring to me. It it took me back to moments when I was a kid. Yeah. Uh where I had not seen something uh like that in the world of advertising, where people were spending seven to 21 minutes in in-game experiences, essentially immersive ads, because our Nickelodeon team had realized that you weren't gonna find the next generation of fans for SpongeBob or Teenage Mut Ninja Turtles on cable television anymore. Right. We had gone from court, you know, court cutters to court nevers. Yeah, and this is where they were spending both time and money. So it inspired HashCoup to really say we can be a partner to help educate both brands and agencies on this world of advertising and what the opportunities are and what the right thing is for them.
SPEAKER_00:You know, getting to know you at SciX, one of the things I really appreciated was your curiosity, right? And so how you have always really dug into certain topics when um you know, never never had a doubt that whenever a topic would come up, that Joel would not either know it or figure out how to find out, you know, all about it, and such a great, great resource and appreciate that. And and also, you know, I think you had a great experience obviously at Saatchi and you know working with great brands, but then you know, being able to work with some of the IP that you know, Nickelodeon and Paramount, and like these are all, you know, these this is IP that I think many of us know and love, you know. Um, you know, my kids grow up grew up watching you know Nickelodeon, and you know, I grew up watching Nickelodeon for that matter. You know, you can't do that on television. Yeah. I remember that show way back in the day. Maybe we should have can't do that on a podcast, but no, uh probably not do that. But anyway, you know, it just just really, you know, and it must have been a great experience for you to get those those opportunities. And I think, you know, I remember working with you even during that time, and you were working on like how do you bring this IP to retail, right? What how what are the ways that those that IP can be enabled at retail, which is you know what most of us, I'm sure, watching this podcast, you know, what were some of the things that you really like learned about you know bringing IP like that to retail? And I'm sure there are a lot of do's and don'ts and what works and what doesn't work, but uh just like briefly, like what was what was that part really like for you working with brands?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, one of the things that was always interesting, we used to talk about this concept from TV to the shelf. So, how do we create a consistent experience in what shoppers see, uh whether it's while scrolling on their feeds on social media to the point of getting to the store or even while they're watching television? Uh if we could create consistent messaging, um, whether it's the characters that they see, the messaging that they see, um, that would allow us to stand out and not get lost in the noise. Because as we know, I remember my days at Satcha, we used to always talk about how uh when a shopper goes to the store, especially a big box retailer, they can often be overwhelmed. Yeah. And they often end up deselecting a lot of the store, including entire departments sometimes, and they go back to what they're used to. So, how do you stand out at the shelf? This is a thing that you know we ended up doing masterfully because in some ways you provided an opportunity for uh shopper moms to be the hero of their household by getting to bring uh a product inside the store that sometimes had their kids' favorite characters on it. Right. That sometimes had opportunities for skin to play or different sorts of engagements that she didn't have to pay anything more for that, but it created an opportunity for that child to have a moment of surprise and delay.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think entertainment and partnerships with entertainment, you know, have a huge opportunity. And then, you know, for you to transition that into gaming, right? And so, you know, time everyone's time is so fractionalized, like where they spend their time, where they spend their attention, right? And so if you can find, you know, if you can find a channel uh where people are spending a lot of time, obviously there's an opportunity for commerce and advertising, and we're gonna dig into that in more detail in in a little bit, but you know, it it seems like such a fun transition to go with from IP to getting into the this gaming space and you know uh establishing or building HashCoup. Um, you know, what are some of the things that HashCoo does that you really feel like are really strong parts of uh whether it be retail or working with brands in that gaming space?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so at the highest level, HashCo functions uh as your media innovation partner really with deep expertise at the intersection of gaming and commerce. And that usually comes to life through in-game integrations, uh media buys, or even custom content relevant to the gaming space. Yeah. Uh those are largely the three pillars. Um, now, what the right mix of those is really will depend on what the brand objective goes for. So brand plan, you know, driving awareness and consideration, or we drive in ultimately uh traffic to retail and add to carts. Um a lot of our job is providing deep expertise and education to our brand partners early on, because as we'll talk about later on, this is still an emerging space, despite the fact that it has uh a ton of attention and time spent in it. Um and then beyond that, it's even curating what the right opportunities are for them because it's a highly fragmented ecosystem. Um, and what we have found and opportunity that we see is that when you go to any given, you know, big player that are fantastic at what they do, if you as a brain go to them and give them an RFP, their answer is going to be our inventory.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And that's not necessarily the right answer every time. So part of our job is to find what are what's the right mix uh to give you really this omniprogram that's more holistic, that does the objective that you actually need it to do. Uh that's we pride ourselves on that and and always even finding ways to develop technology around that to do that better. For example, measuring programs in um multi-channels, multi-publishers in a single view. Okay, and having those speak one language. We think that's important as well.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah, that makes so much sense. Yeah. So all right, I appreciate you giving me that background. I think that was that was great. Um, all right, we're gonna get into now some of the topics, some of the things that everybody's been wanting to hear more about, and we're gonna do that now. So all right, we're gonna move on now with a little bit of our our topical banter. We're gonna we have a few quick hits we're gonna start with. So, first thing we want to talk about, we want to I do anyway. I don't know if Joel wants to, I want to congratulate Chunk the Bear. All right, so Chunk the Bear. So what I love about Chunk the Bear is a couple of things. One is this bear actually just won a competition to see who could gain the most weight for hibernation. Um, and this is a promotion, I guess I never heard of this competition before, but this is a competition that they do in Alaska's Katamai uh National Park and Preserve. And so Chunk actually won by being an estimated 1200 pounds, which is kind of what I feel like I gain over the holiday break, to be honest with you. But Chunk won has a broken jaw and now gained the other bears. Jeez. And the other thing is he came in second three times before you and now he finally won. So it feels like those of you that might know this, like the Susan Lucci of the this bear competition, which Susan Lucci, she actually came in second on a lot of uh Emmys, I think it was Daytime Emmys uh in the soap opera category. Anyway, regardless. So, like, congrats to Chunk the Bear. Um, one of the things, what would be like one question you would think about when you were thinking about this kind of competition? I'm I'm worried about Chunk the Bear. I don't know if he broke his job during the competition or prior to the competition. That's funny. I wonder how many salmon you would actually have to eat in order to weigh 1200 pounds. Yeah, it's uh probably thousands. It's fascinating. Yeah. Yeah. Um so but one of the things I was thinking about with Chunk the Bear is like, all right, who weighed the bear? I also wonder how close second place was. Like, is Chunk the Bear beating him by large margin? Or yeah, it's it was probably close. It was probably close. But what was funny because I'm like, all right, how do you get a bear on a scale? They actually used uh used LiDAR laser technology in order to basically estimate the weight of the bear. So they track these bears and they weigh them. So uh about 1,200 pounds is what the estimated weight was. I didn't know you could use LIDAR to get to get it to weight, and I'm glad nobody was injured or or killed trying to weigh the brown bears in Alaska. All right, it's amazing. Yeah, all right. So next story, next story we're gonna go to is um Nike and Costco collab. They are collabing on a pair of Nike Dunks sneakers uh called Kirkland Dunks. So, those of you that don't know, Kirkland is Costco's store brand. Um they these sneakers have like a fuzzy uh or a fleece-like uh covering. Um, they've got the Kirkland logo on the heel tab, and I think the probably the most fun feature, and this is one of the things I liked about like about Nike Dunks, is they've got the details. Yep. And the details really do matter, but um they have a dollar fifty hot dog graphic on the insole. So if you take the insole out and you flip it around, there's a little air pack where it's supposed to be cushioning for your heel. It's got the$1.50, you know, uh hot dog, which that's what Costco is well known for. So I love love the detail on this. Um so you know, Joel, you know, you and I are both into sneakers and we both love a good collab. You know, what what's your what's your take on this collab?
SPEAKER_01:I loved it. Uh first of all, my wife actually texted this to me. Oh, yeah. So uh it got her attention. And we're not even Costco shoppers. So this got me to think about Costco, right? Which was interesting. And uh, but it also feels kind of like an inside joke or something playful. Yeah. Like if you are somebody that's shopping at Costco and a fan of Kirkland's, this feels like the perfect fun, collectible, playful shoe for you to get. Yeah. Um, and I think there's something interesting about that. I mean, think about all the PR that it's gotten. Yeah. It's gotten a lot more attention than uh maybe others would have expected. So it's been fun to see.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I wonder what would be uh like if Sam's Club had a collab with what would be some of the things that you would I would I would feel like there would be some blue, right? Blue color. And I think it's always interesting, you know, a lot of times there's collabs with sneaker boutiques and certain brands, you know, and to to do that with a store or retailer, to do one with like a map, you know, obviously club masks like Costco is is obviously an interesting, interesting take. So um today I actually have on a collab myself, I'm wearing uh a pair of sockanies that are a collab with Dunkin' Donuts. Um so there's a lot of great detail in these, and you know, that it brings it brings out a lot of the key pieces of of Dunkin' Donuts. Um and you know, you know, I'm originally from Boston, and so that you know Dunkin' Donuts means a lot to me. And uh those of you that uh are at SatyX, you probably know you know that I've worn these on many occasions on many a stage at SatyX in the past. And so, you know, these actually have a good meaning to me, but I do I just do love the way they brought the collaboration uh together. So and you got some it looks like some some super cool kicks on too.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, this is a collaboration Nike did with Artifact actually inspired by gaming gamer culture. Yeah, and it's this idea of uh when you go to Fortnite now, actually you can buy sneakers uh to you know deck out your character. So they were very early in kind of identifying that as a part of uh what was happening in the world, and this is a real life representation of it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, very cool, very, very cool. Um all right, so I could probably talk about sneakers for the whole hour, but that's not why you all have tuned in. So let's move on to another quick hit. So OpenAI just this week uh announced their chat GPT checkout. So now you can be in your chat interface on ChatGPT and you can buy products directly. Uh right now they're starting off with with Etsy. Um future will be Shopify, and I think once the Shopify thing hits, it will really be a huge opportunity uh because so many of D2C products are sold through through Shopify stores. Um but it's just really cool because it's just like it's an instant checkout. If you if you're looking for a product and then you see the buy button, you can just buy and do the entire process uh there. And so, you know, this is really kind of a you know, the word conversational shopping um is you know maybe the term that I think is starting to percolate around this this type of shopping. And so, you know, you know, what are your thoughts about conversational shopping?
SPEAKER_01:It's interesting because when I read this topic, uh a couple thoughts came to mind. One is it is the element of conversational shopping, but also they emphasize uh the agenda commerce protocol. Yeah. So uh you wrote a great article about this recently as well. Uh one of the things that I I think about my own purchasing journey, and and certainly it depends on the category, but when it's a let's say high dollar value item, I often go to YouTube to search for in-depth information. There's I usually get influenced by YouTube. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Um, but in this case, I was like, oh, this could maybe shorten my research process in some cases and also provide really thoughtful recommendations. Now, there is also a question of how much will I trust it and maybe less at the beginning, more over time. Yeah. Um, one thing I found interesting about their release is that they highlight that these recommendations are not going to be uh paid for or sponsored. Um I suspect that will change. Right. Uh I imagine just like every other retail media uh group in the space, they're gonna have their own you know offering where advertisers will have the opportunity to participate in the paid way. Um it's interesting. I mean, I think at its best state, it's you talking to a friend. It's me talking to my cousin and saying, Hey, I'm looking for something. What do you recommend? It gives me some choices, and I say, That's great. Add to cart. I think in a bad state, it's uh I want uh, you know, item ABC, and it gives me something that was not at all what I wanted. Yeah. Uh so I think it's gonna go through an evolution, but the thing I'm excited about is it's a good beginning. And I think these things and these technologies are evolving so quickly that the next two to three years, uh, I think it's gonna be a part of our daily lives.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I think you know, there are different ways that people shop for different items, and I think, you know, in some cases that this might be the right way for you know for certain certain cases. So I think it's complimentary, yeah. It's not in replacement of. Right, for for sure, for sure, right? I mean, and I think you know, I talked about this at the uh Embark Retail Innovation Summit where like there's we're at Emot now. Everywhere is a moment of truth. You can literally buy anything anytime, anywhere. And you know, I think you know, there are so many ways to ways to do that. So it'll be really interesting to see how this evolves. I know this is just the first step in what is going to continue to grow and evolve. So all right. So now we're gonna get into our main topics uh this this episode. And you know, the first one we're gonna talk about is an area that you know and love very well, right? It's your it's your your background. Um we're gonna talk about gaming in advertising and commerce, right? And as we spoke about earlier, you know, everyone's time and people's time, you know, is fractionalized, but there's a huge amount of time being spent on in gaming. I think you know, for a while there was the you know, the the conversation that everybody's a gamer, right? And so it's just your your mom's a gamer, your grandma's a gamer, everybody's a gamer, right? And so, and that's and that's true. I think gaming as a form of entertainment is you know definitely part of part of our culture, and you know, you see that quite a bit. Um, there's also been a lot of conversation about gamification. How do you take certain experiences and turn them into a game? Um and you know, whenever when when people are spending time doing a certain thing, marketers, advertisers want to find out how can I, you know, how can I reach that audience? How can I reach them at the right time? And I think there's the conversation about like I I'd like to play in gaming, but I'm afraid. I think brands a lot of times are afraid to get into gaming. I think they they're afraid of the gaming community, to be quite honest. Like I think they're afraid, like if I put my ad in a game and it interferes somehow with their game, I'm gonna get so much backlash on on social and in digital formats that people are just gonna, you know, I'm gonna be dealing with that for months, right? And or people will never never see my brand ever again, right? Because they'll shut me down or something. But so like from your perspective, like I think I've got to believe that there are some ways that you want to approach it. I think there's been some ways that some brands have approached it and have done it well. Yep. Um, I would love to hear from you, like, where where do you see the current state of the industry and kind of like where how did it kind of get to where it is today? And where can brands play that are very it's where can brands play that really help uh help them reach those gamers?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's a fascinating topic. Um, gaming as a category um has about as much time spent uh really across generations, but certainly uh with Gen Z, Millennials, and Gen Alpha, uh, a little bit less so with uh Gen X, but growing. Um time spent is comparable to social. Um and many advertisers I talk to say, Joel, this has been on our radar for years as a place people are spending time, but we haven't done it for one of a few reasons. One is we don't know where to start. There's a whole lot of things out there, we're not sure where to begin. Two, we're not sure how to do this in a brand safe way, or in a way, to your point, that is authentic both to us and for them. Yeah, that's really important. The other one is also uh, is this right for us? Meaning right for our audience, there's a lot of defaulting to it's kids. Right. Or sometimes it's kids or dude in his basement. Um, and there's a lot more than that. So to your point, uh, gamer itself has an interesting moniker and stigma behind it. So what we find is whenever you ask a room full of people, do you consider yourself a gamer? It's like 20 to 30 percent of the room, if that. Right. Uh but then you ask them, oh, do you play any mobile games? Candy Crush, Words with Friends, Royal. Way more hands go up for sure. Or even people that are playing Stardew Valley or Animal Crossing, like that's cozy gaming. That's a category of games. Cozy gaming. It's a real thing. Really? That's interesting. Uh so part of it is understanding what's happening across the board. It is a form of uh entertainment, a way that people sometimes disconnect. Um, and it's understanding all of that and then giving them the right place to start. So we think of it as a this crawl, walk, run approach. Um, and it also depends on, again, who is the audience. So if you are trying to reach uh Gen Alpha coming up, but certainly Gen Z, a platform like Roblox and Fortnite makes a lot of sense. Uh but then what is the outcome? What are you trying to do? Right. Uh they're fantastic at driving brand awareness right now. Right. Um, they're developing certain capabilities that will enable commerce opportunities, but I would say they're that is not their bread and butter to date. Um but for example, Roblox now has uh immersive commerce capabilities that they've started to roll out. It's in its infancy. Uh, but you're starting to see really interesting opportunities where I went and bought something on Walmart Discovered within the game. Yeah. Uh and I got something shipped to my house, but I also got a digital twin as a gift with purchase.
SPEAKER_00:I I really like that. And I I think you know, Artifact with Nike did did the same thing, correct? Like you bought the shoe and you got the NFT, right? I don't think it was for every every pair sold, but that was one of the it was really the reverse.
SPEAKER_01:You got the digital item and then they would ship you the other one. So they took it as pre-orders, which was a good way to limit how many they had to produce. Sure. And it also created limited quantities of these. So then there isn't an infinite number or an undefined number of these. There's we could look at the soul inside and tell you exactly how many of these were made.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah. Well, that and that addresses a whole nother issue, not necessarily where we were headed, but I just it just came to me that whole idea of the digital item and the physical item being, you know, being purchased at the same at the same time.
SPEAKER_01:And the digital item itself is fascinating. Like I think people are still trying to wrap their head around this, but to give you some context, uh Parsons did a Parsons School of Design did a study with Roblox where uh out of the Gen Z participants in the study, uh 56% of them actually stated that their virtual closet was worth as much, if not more, to them than their real life closet. Yeah. And at first it surfaced level, you're like, that's insane. But then you think about it, you're like, well, actually, more people are probably seeing their virtual items on their avatar than might actually see them in real life in some cases. Uh so it's uh an element of bragging rights, especially when it's a limited item, when they had to have been there to have gotten that. Um so we see a lot of opportunities, frankly, across generations. One thing people don't think about actually is baby boomers is one of the fastest growing segments in mobile gaming specifically. Yeah. Um, that's it's not something you think about, but they have more leisure time, right? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And how like one of the things that to try to bring it back to bring it to retail for a minute, like, you know, there's always this how do I how do I activate an online person to an offline experience, right? And so, you know, from from your you know, from your experience, what have you seen? Like, what are some some good ways, like if a brand wants to engage through gaming in order to drive an in-store um sale, let's say, or or engagement, you know, what are some what are some things to to help that, help facilitate that? Because it does seem like there could be a disconnect when you know if you're immersed in a game and then now you're trying to transition your mindset to somebody that's a shopper in a store. Like, what are some thoughts around that?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, there's uh a bunch of different things that uh we think are happening and and are being done really well. So let's start with e-com and then maybe move to the store. So from a dot-com perspective, especially, um, there's you can leverage uh a lot of mobile gaming um opportunities like rewarded video or playable ads uh that actually give the player value in the form of more gems, coins, or gold to keep playing the game and um and they actually do a fantastic job of driving click-through to a retail destination, and playable ads specifically are so immersive uh that we're seeing them drive significant commerce loads. So people actually adding the product to their cart uh because they're spending more time with that experience. And right, I really introduce that to people as it's almost gaming's version of uh listen to this ad and have 30 minutes of free listening on Spotify. Right. Um, and you're starting to see these rewarded opportunities happen both in mobile gaming but also on Roblox. Right. Um, you're starting to see things at retail itself that people are adding a QR code on their pack to say scan to play that drives directly to uh in-game integration or custom experience on Roblox, where uh players will collect fruits, coins, whatever, and exchange it for in-game wearable items. Again, to Shopper Mom, that is now a packaging that is worth the same as a packaging right beside it. This one has a scan to play mechanism and it now gives you know kids in the household something fun to do. Uh, they're seeing higher velocity of sales for those items than those that don't have an experience like that. Um, you also have formal licensing partnerships, of course, whether it's putting Nintendo on pack or other IP that's known. Um, but I think part of the thing that's important is not just the channel or the tactic, it's what is the audience targeting? How do we reach the exact right audience? How do we do geo-targeting around the stores that you're trying to drive traffic to? How do we leverage whether it's brand lift or sales of studies to actually show you what's happened, verified by a third party? Um those things are important.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah, it is interesting. You talked about you know having an on-pack, um, which that feels like that's probably the most tangible way to get people to engage, you know, physical to digital, because even if you have signage and so forth in store, yes, it can, I think it can reflect what's on pack, but that's what you take home with you, right? And so then, you know, you're maybe your your kid isn't there with you, or you know, the gamer isn't there, they can then engage once they once they get home.
SPEAKER_01:Um, even participating in events and experiences, I would say. So when you can bring an event and experience, promote it online or in the store where they get to be a part of a tournament, for example, yeah, where some of their favorite streamers or gamers are going to be a part of, and they get to participate in that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Uh, and it's brought to you through a brand you know and love at a retailer. Yep. Uh creating moments and experiences, we think, is a really important uh opportunity and place that gaming can play in ways that other uh traditional display or video units cannot.
SPEAKER_00:Yep. So what would be a few tips that you would give a brand that is considering getting into this space? And most likely those brands are activating through retail, right? So they're working with the you know, the Walmarts of the world, right? And so what would be a few tips or things that they should think about or consider before getting into the space or really getting into it?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, I think first and foremost is aligning on who is the audience that you're trying to go after, you know, and really defining uh where do they spend time in gaming, why do they spend time in gaming, like really take your time to understand that first. Uh that should also that should inform what you do, but also how you show up in those spaces. Yeah. Uh to your point, you don't just want to take banner ad that you're doing in traditional other forms in the gaming space. You want to be able to speak their language, you want to have contextually relevant messaging that's really important. For sure. Um, and we help you know our brand partners uh do that, navigate that journey.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's cool. All right. I know again, that's probably another one of those topics we could probably talk to for talk about for a long time, but we're gonna move on to our next topic. So we're gonna talk about AI-driven personalized pricing. And some I think depending on your viewpoint, this topic can you know be a little bit controversial, right? And so um, you know, AI is now getting involved in everything, right? And so now we have AI-powered pricing, right? So since we have AI, we have all these abilities, this ability to analyze data and make changes, right? And so there is already that's this has already existed for a while in in the way of like Uber or airlines, right? You have surge pricing, so you know during times of, I mean, it really capitalizes on supply and demand, right? So during you know, heavy, heavy volume prices go up, during lower volume, prices go down, right? So I think to a certain extent, I think a lot of uh a lot of people are used to or can understand that. Let's say maybe they're used to a you can accept it, right? With airlines, I think we all have experienced some way, like you go and you look at a flight, and then you go go back and you look at it again, and the the cost is up, you know, versus what it was before, you know, and so are is there are there things that are are um impacting that, you know, through through AI and other pricing methods. Now, what if you take this to the store, right? And you know, now we've got you know at shelf we have more digital, digital tags, you know, digital um pricing, uh pricing happening at the shelf now where it feels like there's opportunity to influence those numbers on on the at the shelf right then and right then and there, which you know when it gets down to one item, like can the should the price go? Go up, like you know, or when there's a volume of them, you know, does the price go down? Like I'm not sure how I feel really about this. I can see on the retailer side, you know, the opportunity to you know basically capitalize on supply and demand. Um, but I also think that in some ways it could feel predatory, yeah. Right? You're taking advantage of a situation and you know, whether it's you know milk and eggs and you're raising the prices and lowering the prices and you're doing that real time. I know Wendy's kind of had a thing going on a little a little while ago where they were doing uh variable pricing, and um that got a lot of backlash on on variable pricing there. So I'd love to hear your take. Like, you know, what how do you feel about what variable pricing, AI-driven pricing, if you will, um, how it impacts uh impacts retail and impacts obviously shoppers and consumers.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think there's to your point, um there's a risk of losing trust with the customer if done incorrectly. Um so I think people could retailers or brands might get excited about some of the supply and demand thing, but as a consumer, I may not accept that. I mean I want that. I think in its best form, um it is giving me personalized offers um and you know whether it's individually or even as segments. So from a segment perspective, think you're a Sams Club member, and because you're a Sams Club member, you get this exclusive offer or better bundle price or something.
SPEAKER_00:Um it's loyalty, right? It it's it's it's a it's a loyalty program to a certain extent.
SPEAKER_01:And that can still drive value to the retailer or the brand because if they know the lifetime customer value, they know how I'm voting with my dollars, right? Uh then they can actually bring better experiences to me, which will likely get me to want to spend more with them. Um, you know, we've talked about sneakers earlier today, but it's like if Nike knows that we're spending X on sneakers or always trying to get into drops, but not able to get into some of those drops, like what an incredible opportunity to offer us something special. Either you have the ability to get into this job before anyone else, um, you you know, this group of people is able to buy this item, and only this group of people will have the ability to buy it. There's multiple forms of this that if you look at it as a way to provide personalized offers um and call it something better to the consumer based on the data, I think it's good. I think at its worst, it could be look like surveillance pricing. And then all of a sudden I feel like people are following me around the web and just trying to get the maximum value for my dollar.
SPEAKER_00:I have some breaking news for you, Joel. It's a real thing. It's happening. Yeah, people are following you around on the web. 100%. Um, yeah, I mean, I think it's it's it's really interesting. I like I'm I just started thinking about the loyalty angle, right? And and you know what it and I could see that actually going badly too, right? So what you do is you raise your prices to a high level, yeah, and then you give discounts to your loyalist loyal shoppers, right? And so it's like, is that even the right thing to do?
SPEAKER_01:And do you even trust that the price that they're saying was the original price of the street?
SPEAKER_00:Trust is such trust is such you know that's what you started with, and I think eroding trust, which is probably the most important thing to have have between a retailer and a brand with a shopper, is like you're that was the first, that was a great, great uh call. Yeah. Yeah, I think you know, I think that is what this is all about is trust. I think maybe if you do it in in the right way, you know, maybe you tie it into a loyalty program, you know. I you know again, it seems like we're talking about Nike a lot in this in this show, but like for me, I've been a Nike member since 2007. I don't see any better benefit for being that member and spending Lord knows how much money with Nike over that period of time than anyone else. And that's disappointing to me, right? Um, but I don't think I pay more or less when I go to Nike.com than anybody else that has the same access. But maybe I should.
SPEAKER_01:Um if they could tap into who Nike customers are and offer them certain deals and discounts, that could be interesting. And I think we're moving in that direction, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so when I was when I was at my former the agency I was before Sachi, when I was at the marketing arm, one of our clients was JCPenney. And you know, JCPenney basically conditioned their shoppers to wait for a coupon code every week. And we that's what we do. We were sending text messages to their to their loyalty customers um about a coupon code that they can go and they go shop. And so then I can't remember the name of the CEO at the time, he said, We're not gonna do that anymore, we're gonna stop. And sales tanked because they were way like so. In in a scenario where now we have these dynamic pricing, and then you get get people used to that variability, do you really like is it do you really have an impact on that customer to really shop with you only when things are in their favor, right? And not be that loyalist that you know you really want them to be.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's a great question. I think uh in general, it's part of the reason why under this topic I think about even beyond personal price, personalized pricing and more personalized offers. Yeah. Because I think offers can be, it doesn't have to be a lower price. It can be, you know, brand brand telling you about their new Halloween items or their new Christmas items. Yeah, uh, maybe I want to know about that or have access to purchase it first. That only works in some categories, of course, but um I think when you think about it beyond pricing, I think it gets really interesting.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah, and that's where I think maybe the opportunity is isn't really necessarily the dynamics around the actual price at the shelf, but the what the opportunities are for your loyalists using AI in order to know their purchase behavior and their propensity for other opportunities. And you know, in in the space of digital, we talk about um, you know, we talk about discovery a lot. Like here's an opportunity, like you know who your loyalists are, you know, like so why not give them an offer at a at a special specialized price?
SPEAKER_01:Well, even, I mean, this probably bigger combo as well, but even what is the right message to reach out to to them versus somebody else? Like right message, right place, right time. Um I think AI is gonna enable all this, not just the pricing, not just the offers, but like your ads might look very different than mine, and they might say something different to you than me based on what we've purchased or you know, or reviews online or something like that. Yeah, yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_00:All right, we're gonna pause on that topic now, and we're gonna move on to our third topic today, which you know does still talk about in-store, right? So we're gonna talk about Instacart caper carts, which is uh, you know, a technology that I don't know, for some reason I was enamored with when I was at CES back in January this year. I had a chance to experience a caper cart. Um, and I really found some of the things that the caper carts were doing were really, really interesting. Um, you know, so for those of you that don't know, uh uh Instacart acquired a company called Caper AI back in 2021. Um, and they basically have built a smart cart, if you will, and and those have um different sensors, it has a scale, um, has a lot of um interactive components to that cart in order to and a little screen to help facilitate that shopping experience in in a store. Um, which, you know, I think being a shopper marketing, we've always we always have thought about okay, what would be the Cadillac of shopping carts and what would that unlock? And I think you know, to a certain extent, the the caper cart is is something to to that uh to that effect. And you know, there are these are in retail uh retailers like Kroger or Wake Fern Shop Right um as well. And so they're they're using these carts. And you know, I I think there's a couple of components to the caper cart that I find to be really great, which is you know, first of all, the technology that goes into the cart itself to be able to weigh your food and weigh, you know, weigh your produce and all that stuff and add it directly to your shopping experience and shopping cart is absolutely brilliant, right? Um and so, but on the other hand, like trying to deploy that you know a large number of caper carts, I've got to imagine is pretty pr a pretty expensive experience. So um, you know, I like like your point of view on you know, do you think a cart like that does it really add to the experience, you know, or is everybody just good with their mobile phone and and the the wire shopping cart that they're already used to? What are your thoughts?
SPEAKER_01:I think it's fun. Uh I've never done it myself. Uh the idea of it sounds interesting, and there's definitely moments that I could see that have actually being helpful. Like there's times that I want to know where a certain item is in the store and have to go find somebody in the store to tell me. And sometimes they're right and sometimes they're not. So uh the fact that it would be aware of what aisle I'm in, and maybe I can even somehow tell it what my shopping list is, like things like that I get excited about. Uh, I think they're interesting. I think a lot of value will go to the retailer, of course. Um, you know, I think early tests that they're showing are people are spending more, uh, there's more, there's more loyalty. Uh like, and I mean, I went to you know, Fresh Market yesterday and I saw they had an offer of like buy two chocolate bars and you get a better deal than one. That's not even with a caper card. I bought two chocolate bars. Yeah, well, like what if I was in any given aisle and because it knows what I'm putting in the car, it gives me relevant offers that I may not have been aware of. I I could set see that being value to the shopper, but also driving higher carded value. So it's gonna be incredibly expensive to do. I don't know the economics behind it, but sure maybe through monetizing the ad inventory, what getting increased, yeah, getting increased uh basket sizes, and maybe even more like people on a loyalty program. Um, maybe that actually equates to maybe it's a wash and that's enough for it to be a win.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Yeah, I just wonder, you know, would you shop at a store specifically because it had a cart, a smart, we'll call it a smart cart, yeah, smart cart, um, like a caper cart. Would you shop there over shopping somewhere like you know, a mass personally I wouldn't. Uh I wouldn't make a decision to go to a place because of that versus not. Yeah, it's so frustrating to me when I go to a different Home Depot or different lows that I'm used to going to. Yeah. So having something to help with the wayfinding. And I know you look it up on the on your phone, you can spread it through the app. You can it'll tell you what aisle things are.
SPEAKER_01:There's something interesting about it, like it's just here and it's on the screen. I'm adding products to the cart. So I think it's helpful, but I think it would help my experience. I don't know if I would choose to go to the retailer for it. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Especially if I eventually realize every time I go I spend more than I want to. Well, if we can tie that previous topic into this topic, like you know, if you're on you have that cart, right, and it knows where you are in store, it could provide additional incentives. I mean, or it could detect your next to it and change the price on at the shelf right before you're about to put it in your cart. Who knows? But I think it's like an in-store cookie.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Like it's following you around, it knows what you're doing. Uh, if nothing else, it's a really uh expensive but probably compelling data research project.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. My my feeling about where the opportunity would be for Caper Cart and Instacart specifically would be to you know build all of that technology into your app, into your phone app, right? Of course, the sensor piece is gonna be you know, the scales and stuff. That's not really gonna be possible unless I guess maybe if you have LIDAR, maybe you can right from the bears, right? Maybe you can use LIDAR to figure out how much something weighs. But for that, but bring it into your device, right? And then really bring that because I think it's like more of an immersive shopping experience when you have that cape, when you have the caper cart, in order to you know tie that into your shopping journey within the within the store, your list and your gamification and all that. Like, why can't you just bring that into you know your your mobile device and bring that experience and let that be the way to to do the same thing, and then you can scale that much, much faster.
SPEAKER_01:It's funny because even as you say it, I was like, you know, a cart that just has space for your phone to go in there and you're you upload the app and then your phone is oh yeah, it's good, yeah, significantly reduced cost, and you're opting in to do it at that point. You're maybe not gonna get the wave, but you get 80% of the benefit.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we'll see how you know caper carts and other smart carts get adopted and what impact they have on shopping. So uh, all right. Well, we're gonna move on now to our vibe check. All right, now it's time for vibe check, which is our game time. And so we're gonna play our game bold vibe. So, Joel, um, I'm going to throw out a thought, a little sentence here. Um, might be a trend, might be something totally random, might be something that we talked about. And you just have to give me your first gut reaction, okay? Got it. Is it no problem, right? So don't overthink it. Okay, are you ready? Yep. All right. Uh Roblox will replace Instagram as Gen Z's brand discovery platform.
SPEAKER_01:Interesting. Uh, in some ways, I think it has started to. Um, I believe Roblox and Fortnite are where certainly Gen Alpha and Gen Z go to. Um, I believe it's gonna be an important part. I can't say it's gonna replace it. Okay, Instagram will continue to be important, as will TikTok.
SPEAKER_00:All right. In-game advertising is more effective than connected TV.
SPEAKER_01:At driving uh certainly traffic to retail, absolutely. Um but I've seen CTV do a good job at actually driving sales lift when done at scale.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. All right. AI pricing will make sales feel less fair, not more personalized.
SPEAKER_01:I worry that at the beginning, yes, it'll absolutely feel you'll see more backlash before you see a lot of excitement.
SPEAKER_00:Shoppers will trust retailers less because of AI-driven pricing. I think that's a risk as well. Yeah, you started the whole thing with that, didn't you? Smart carts will become the most valuable in-store retail media channel, in-store retail media channel.
SPEAKER_01:I struggle to accept that one. I think in some ways it goes back to old school, you know, going back to our Sachi days, but navigation, education, and inspiration, just navigating the store.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I think the store format itself, not the cart, will be the thing that's important. Yep.
SPEAKER_00:The Nike and Costco collab is the sneaker collab of the year. What do you thought?
SPEAKER_01:Uh I don't know. It's fun, it's playful, but I'm I'm sure there will be others and probably have been others that stand out more than that.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. And last one, Costco's hot dog combo is the most iconic value meal in America. They've really stuck to it.
SPEAKER_01:Um it might be, it isn't for me personally, just because I've never lived in a place where Costco is huge. Right. Uh, so for me, I don't know. Like, I gotta go to my childhood, like the happy meal from McDonald's. Like, it just isn't. If it's really the most value meal, but it it was a moment of joy as a kid.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I I here's here's what I'll say. I like everybody knows about the hot dog meal at Costco. Right. Everybody, like everybody knows. And they've stuck to that pricing. Even if you don't shop at Costco, like I've I mean, I think I may have been in Costco twice in my life, yeah. Right. So, you know, I don't um, but everybody knows about it. So in a way, I think it has an it is iconic in a way. Um, but I I do hear you like nostalgia does play a part, and you know, for for for me, like yeah, value meals, you know, uh or uh happy meals at McDonald's are definitely big, big for me. So great. Well, thanks for playing that playing that game. Um, the great answers for sure. All right, party people. It is time to wrap this one up. I want to thank my guest, Joel Ponce, for chopping it up with me on on this show. So thanks for being here. Happy to be here be here, Joel. Um, do you have uh any any last words, anything you'd like to promote?
SPEAKER_01:I appreciate the opportunity first and foremost. And uh if anybody wants to dive into the world of gaming advertising, uh learn more about what's happening and what you can do to leverage gaming as a channel for growth, reach out to me. You can find me on LinkedIn, just type in Joel Ponts and reach out to me at Joel at HashCoo.com.
SPEAKER_00:All right. Awesome. And the big question will you come back? Oh, 100%. Okay. Well, if you're not gonna wear sneakers, I would just edit that part out if you said no, so not a big deal. I also have a shout out. So uh episode one, I had Tom Bryden on the show, and I want to do a quick shout out to Tom. He recently received his U.S. citizenship. So I want to congratulate Tom and welcome to America, my friend. So amazing. Yeah. Um, in a future podcast, I'm gonna do a mailbag show. So ask BV almost anything. So if you have any questions, almost anything. I love it. If you have any questions, go ahead and send them my way at retailmediavibes at gmail.com. I hope you enjoyed the podcast. Please like it, share it, comment, etc. It helps get the word out on the podcast. So please do that. And thank you so much for listening. And I promise I will do better next time. Be the out.