Retail Media Vibes
Retail Media Vibes is your marketing lens on the world of shopping, commerce, and culture. Each episode brings fresh conversations with industry insiders who break down the stories driving how brands reach shoppers and how shoppers connect with brands. From big retail moments to the latest shifts in digital media, it’s your front-row seat to the strategies shaping the future of commerce.
We keep it smart, energetic, and actionable, mixing sharp analysis with good vibes so you walk away informed and inspired. Whether you’re a retail pro, a marketer looking for an edge, or simply curious about where the industry is headed, this podcast is made for you.
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Retail Media Vibes
Ep. 7 - Influence with Integrity: Mixing AI and Authenticity
What happens when brand safety and speed meet the messy magic of real human influence? We bring on influencer marketer Emma Curry to explore where AI-driven creators can help, where they can harm, and how transparency keeps audiences on your side. From synthetic personas that never miss a talking point to the irreplaceable trust earned by human voices, we map the tradeoffs and share a practical framework: keep humans in the loop, use AI to pressure-test briefs, and pick categories wisely so you don’t sell perfection where people need honesty.
Then we get tactical. Retail media keeps accelerating, demanding more assets, more often. We break down how to structure creator shoots for evergreen use, capture both short video and lifestyle stills, and design modular CTAs that swap by retailer without losing the story. Emma shares a favorite move, bring social into the store. An original song cut for in‑store radio during the holidays became prime exposure and a masterclass in stretching one asset across channels where buying actually happens.
We also wade into the contracts that decide your ROI: usage windows that match retail turnover, the extra costs of in‑store and CTV, and when SAG-AFTRA rules apply. The headline: don’t commission content without a plan. Decide where it will live, how it will refresh, and what success looks like before you press record. Plus, we have fun with quick hits on ads in public restrooms and smart fridges, BNPL holiday habits, and “Campaigns We Love,” featuring Huggies’ cheeky “Do It for the Team” and Walmart’s nostalgia-rich WhoKnewville.
If this gave you ideas for your next creator brief or retail media pitch, subscribe, share it with a colleague, and leave a review so more marketers can find Retail Media Vibes.
What's up, party people? BV here, and welcome to episode seven of Retail Media Vibes, a doing business in Bentonville podcast. We are recording live at Podcast Video Studios in Rogers, Arkansas. So today I'm joined by my good friend and former colleague Emma Curry. Emma has a strong background in influencers and content creators, so she is perfect for what we're going to talk about in today's episode. So we'll get to meet Emma in just a minute, but the main topics that we're going to run through today include AI influencers, what's okay, what's not okay, and how we got here. And we're also going to talk about influencer content for retail media use. Really, how do we take content that we are spending a lot of uh time and money and energy creating, and how do we make that fit for retail and retail media? So we also have some quick hits today we're going to run through. And then we're we have a new uh new game today called Campaigns We Love, where Emma and I will share some campaigns that we see out there that we think are really fun and notable. So with that, let's get into it. All right. So next up is Vibe Chat, where we get to meet today's guest, Emma Curry. So welcome to Retail Media Vibes, Emma.
SPEAKER_00:Hey, BB, I'm so excited to be here. It feels like, I don't know, just yesterday we were jokingly launching a podcast um as a cover story. So excited to uh kind of make it happen finally.
SPEAKER_02:See, dreams do come true. So uh so obviously our listeners don't know you like I do. So tell us a little bit about your background, you know, who you are, and maybe how you know me.
SPEAKER_00:Um I am by day an influencer marketer. I work at She Speaks, started there in May. So fairly new to the company, but not to influencer marketing. I had the opportunity to meet you and work with you at Saatchi and Satchi X.
SPEAKER_01:Yep.
SPEAKER_00:Um, joined the ranks of one of the best known shopper marketing agencies about um nearly eight years ago. Um it was kind of my relaunch of my third career. I know you know a thing or two about relaunching careers.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Yeah, I have done that a couple of times.
SPEAKER_00:So um I, in my current role, I really sit at the intersection of driving awareness and conversion through influencers, through content creation, um, and and connecting with audiences through social channels, um, which is honestly near and dear. I I love the community that social media brings. Um, so by day, that's my trade. By night and every other minute, I'm also a mom. I have two littles, a four and a two-year-old, um, that my husband and I chase around Russellville, Arkansas. Um, and then just as a person, um, my personality, um, as we're checking vibes a bit today, um, I would classify myself as a tired mom, uh social media addict, and a book lover.
SPEAKER_01:Oh yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I think that that might rain the rain through some of the things you hear from me today.
SPEAKER_02:That's uh that's awesome. Well, first, thank you for making the trip up from Russellville, right? So we probably had to get in the car a little bit early to make the the recording time. So you talked a little bit about books, and I know you're an avid book reader. So, you know, what is your book count so far for 2025?
SPEAKER_00:So um I am one of those that reads 200 plus a year. My count as of last night is 181. So I'm pretty close to my goal.
SPEAKER_02:How do you read so fast? Like that's I don't I I can't even find time to read one book in a year, but you've read 181 so far, three quarters are almost almost full the full year.
SPEAKER_00:Um I'm not I'm not reading to expand my mind as much as I'm reading to um for pleasure, for joy, to kind of disconnect at the end of the day. Um, I'm also very much uh this book ends, it starts and it ends in one book. I'm not um journeying along a series. I think I was traumatized, probably waiting for the the next twilight to come out, um, showing my age. Um proud millennial here. Um so yeah, that's definitely like how I disengage at the end of the day. Um and as you can imagine, having littles, sometimes I'm up at night. Uh, so that's kind of how I keep myself awake long enough to get them back to sleep.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, yeah. But so down use some downtime and I always found it really interesting about like how you could be taking care of the kids like rocking them and still be reading a book at the same time. I was thought that was really cool.
SPEAKER_00:Listen, multitasking is like my middle name, I think.
SPEAKER_02:It probably could be. Uh definitely uh it could be as well. So, you know, if you weren't doing what you were you're doing now, what would an alternate career look like for for you?
SPEAKER_00:I think I mean dream would honestly just be uh be an author to share stories that way. I think I get to do that a little bit in my work, right? I'm weeping. Yeah, influencer. Yeah, absolutely. I love I love the storytelling, I love connection in that way. Um, again, I'm probably writing like the happily ever afters at the end, um, giving some some joy to somebody else. And if not, that maybe something adjacent like a librarian.
SPEAKER_01:Oh bring a librarian, absolutely bring the stories to people.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, I have such fond memories when I was a kid going to the stories, going to story time. So make something like that even.
SPEAKER_02:So, in the line of work that you do for influencer and content creator, you know, you're partnering with brands, right? And you're using their voice in order to help build awareness about a brand or a product or you know, ultimately conversion, right? You want to try to get them to buy or sell something. Have you ever been on the other side of that where you've purchased something recently that has been communicated to you through an influencer or a content creator that was like an impulse, an impulse buy?
SPEAKER_00:My most recent one is probably the most boring um purchase. And it wasn't necessarily like a branded ad. Um, but I think it was just last week I saw a mom on TikTok taking her kids with her to Costco, and I thought, oh my gosh, that's literally my nightmare. But she she has her like trick. She takes them, gets the pizza, and pulls out her purse scissors, literally just kitchen scissors.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Um that's scary to have scissors and outfits, but not weaponized. Um, but that's her trick. She gets the pizza, gets a couple cups, and cuts them into bite-sized pizzas for pieces for her kids.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And that keeps some keeps them happy and engaged while she she's able to knock off the shopping list. And I thought, huh, I have free will and a couple extra bucks. I maybe I need to invest in like a diaper bag pair of scissors. So that was the last thing I bought because of someone on social media.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, for me it's sneakers, so I that doesn't surprise anybody. So I bought some running shoes that I saw through a shoe tuber. And so I, you know, picked up some sneakers.
SPEAKER_00:So it's not the other thing's probably books. I am influenced. My TBR grows because of people on book talk or bookstagram and recommendations I see. So that's probably the most common thing I do, though.
SPEAKER_02:Sounds great. So great to get to know you, Emma. So we're gonna go ahead now and move into some of the quick hit topics before we get into our main topics. All right. So we're now into the quick hits, you know, just really quick, fun topics, uh, news, maybe newsworthy, maybe not so newsworthy, that we're gonna you know warm things up a little bit before we get into the main topic. So uh the first one is so looks like in China there are public toilets where in order to get toilet paper dispensed, you have to watch a 20-second ad before it dispenses. So you you you there's a video of a woman, she's in a public restroom, she has to scan a QR code uh with her phone um in order to get the toilet paper dispenser to open. Um, but before it opens, there's a 20-second ad that she has to watch in order to actually get the get the toilet paper. So um there's a lot, you know, is this such it's such a weird way, I guess, to do advertising on one hand, but the other hand, it it makes sense. Um how do you think about like, is that really an advertising opportunity? Have we taken out-of-home advertising and gone way too far with it? Like, what are what are your thoughts around like toilet paper dispenser ads?
SPEAKER_00:I mean, of course it gives you a laugh, but as a marketer, I think, you know what? We're captive.
SPEAKER_02:Like does everything have to be an ad?
SPEAKER_00:It not everything does, right? Um, and I mean, how long until they say it has for 20 seconds you get single ply? If you do a 60 second, you get the three ply. I mean, it's the premisation and the and the tier structure. How long until that happens? But I do think I'm probably susceptible. That's one of the few times in a day I can be captive, I can take a breath. Yeah, sometimes I can lock a kid out. Um, so I do think there's some opportunities. I've I've also seen um and I'm one of those, my news comes from TikTok. Um, I saw a TikTok where public toilets in China, some of them also have external facing clocks, like timers.
SPEAKER_01:Oh.
SPEAKER_00:So people also know how long you're in there, right? So it's like pressure advertising too. If you have to watch an ad, also people are seeing how long it takes you. Um, but I I do think there's some opportunity. It always goes back to the the principles of marketing, right? Like right time, right place, right people, right message. So how how do you do the right message there? And I I think, you know, maybe it's something funny like uh liquid IV. Like, are you hydrated enough?
SPEAKER_02:Like, is this your first trip to the what ads would make the most sense in a scenario like that? Uh yeah, liquid IV makes a lot of sense. And obviously, we're not gonna get gross, but like obviously toilet paper, you know, charbon probably would be a good, good ad. But any other brands come to mind?
SPEAKER_00:I mean, those were like the first ones I instantly gravitated to. I do think there's probably some and like some health, wellness, yeah, you know, those types of products um and adjacencies there that make a ton of sense. And you just have to be smart. And it's probably more about caretaking and not quote unquote potty humor. Right.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:That can push it too far.
SPEAKER_02:All right. So great on the toilets. Now let's talk about uh advertising in a different space, um, slightly different space. Well, probably more than a slightly different space. So next up, Samsung wants to plaster your smart fridge with ads. So, you know, Samsung has these, this philosophy that is literally called screens everywhere. And, you know, it's obviously putting ads on its smart TVs and anywhere that's a screen. I think it's looking at the opportunity to advertise. But now with some of these fridge refrigerators that do have screens on them, they also talk about um they have AI vision inside some of these newer refrigerators from Samsung that can see what you use and what you're you know, what you uh might be in need of. And so, you know, is is are we getting to a place where refrigerator advertising is more of a benefit? Because I look at it like we have these, you know, we have these smart homes, right? And we have these smart appliances, and we do have, you know, an expectation for them to be helpful in some some way, shape, or form, right? So, but we also don't want to get hammered with an ad every time we turn around. So, you know, what is you know, what is the right balance with you know products like this where you know we're monetizing every single screen and we're trying to, you know, sell sell that to uh to shoppers and to consumers.
SPEAKER_00:I think actually I just learned my husband may work for Samsung because he believes in the TV everywhere. Um there's actually one right above our refrigerator. So we're already getting some of those ads. So I think adding some of that functionality to it, right? Like please, please send me an ad for milk before my toddler's tantrum is what reminds me I'm out. I think there's there's some really great intersection of of function there. I think something else to explore when you're thinking about ads. We there's like a long-standing phrase that the kitchen is the heart of the home, right? And I think about we congregate there as a family every morning and every night. That's where we're at. Um, when friends and family are there, that's where we're at. So I think there's an interesting opportunity as we've seen a lot of these like emotional storytelling, multi-part type stories where the product are they're integrated. And maybe that's a place that makes a lot of sense. Like you join as a family and it's you're watching whatever that, you know, the rom commerce like Walmart did. Maybe that's the space that makes sense. You join around the the kitchen island to eat dinner, and there's that kind of multi-part series that you're tuning into.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Yeah. It it's interesting. I think, you know, it's to the point we were talking about before is like, you know, the the the right, you know, right message at the right, you know, right time to, you know, to the right audience. It can be helpful. But we all know, and you and I have worked in this space long enough, like there's a lot of pushback on advertising, you know, and unfortunately, it's one of the ways that everything gets monetized, you know, one way or the other. Even things that are not monetized yet will ultimately become monetized. And a lot of it's used through advertising. So, you know, they have this information, they have this data. When you have the data, you do and you have a screen, you do have an opportunity to advertise. I think as long as it's helpful and as long as the the people in the home are open to it or they receive a benefit from it, uh, I think there's a a great opportunity.
SPEAKER_00:Yep, agreed.
SPEAKER_02:So all right. So the next quick hit that we have is half the shoppers plan to use buy now and pay later this holiday season. So we're we're getting into the holiday season, the holiday rush is upon us. Um there's uh a lot of shopping that's gonna be taking place. And instead of you know, whipping out a credit card, uh a lot of uh a lot of people who are doing their shopping now are going to use these buy now or pay later, like Klarna as a as an example uh to do those purchases. So with those, there's typically no interest. You know, there are some different, you know, different ways that you can use those services. Some may have a little bit of interest, some of them have no interest. And we're not obviously going to get into all that right now. But um, when you have these these systems like Klarna and Afterpay, like back in my day, we used to have something called layaway, right? And which is, you know, you would divide up, you'd put down a down payment and then you would divide up the balance across a series of weeks or months, depending on you know the cost of the item. You know, do you think there's a big risk if there's a lot of people that are using these systems and uh to to buy all of their holiday gifts of racking up a bunch of you know bills that they can't afford? Or, you know, what what role do you see that these really playing?
SPEAKER_00:I think I mean to your point, it's not new, it's it's prettier now. It's more accessible, maybe now, maybe more destigmatized. Um, I you know, I grew up that 90s kid. Kmart Laeaway was everywhere. Like that was that was a thing that people were kind of embarrassed of it, but now it's it's just ingrained and and much more accessible. So I think it gives a more responsible spin to it, and it gives um people the opportunity to, you know, ensure Santa shows up everywhere and for everyone and and gives that opportunity. I think it's actually kind of viewed more as a budgeting tool anymore. Like that's a way people can use that budget and and you know, divide up how they're gonna pay it out, just like you were doing with layaway baby back in the day. Um it's it's more about kind of being that that helper and making it happen. And I think an interesting side of you know how it's integrated now is that it's it's offered on every transaction online, basically. And one of my one of my careers was in retail. And one of the things we learned is that the rate at which, you know, service add-ons were added or you know, plus ups were done online was much higher than in store because it's always offered online. It's always available versus the human element when you forget to offer it. And so when it's available to people, they are gonna look at it more seriously. Even if I can afford it right now, maybe I would like to separate and pay it out and be able to do something else that I hadn't planned for because I had this budgeting tool available to me.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, my wife likes free money. So if there is an opportunity to use you know these services in order to balance out kind of the the budget and not pay interest and you know, obviously if you know, work that out in the proper way, I think uh I think it can definitely be a benefit. Um, I do think, you know, in some of those situations, it could lend people to spending more. And so that's gonna help retailers, right? You know, so um, because they don't have they're not gonna a lot of people don't worry about what's gonna come in the future. They just want to, they're just thinking about what's gonna happen today.
SPEAKER_00:Definitely. I I know there used to be stats when I was in retail about like if people buy a gift card, the person receiving the gift card usually spends three times more, four times more. I'm sure we're gonna start seeing some of that type of data available too to see when people do this, they spend X percent more at that retailer of the time.
SPEAKER_02:Cool. All right, we're gonna wrap up the quick hits with one fun one here. Um so this one, you know, cracks me up actually. So a couple episodes ago, I had Joel Pont on, and we we talked about a competition in Alaska to see which bear could be the fattest bear before hibernation. And so they actually used lidar in order to measure the bear. Nobody weighed, actually weighed the bear. Um and chunk the bear won. And so that was that was great. Well, Texas was not gonna be outdone. So they have they did the same thing with squirrels. So they had the fat squirrel week in Texas, and the winner of that was uh Chunkosaurus Rex, which actually I kind of love the name, honestly. Um and so like you started to think about okay, fat squirrel week competing with you know, fat bear week, but what would be some like sponsors of fat squirrel week that come to mind for you?
SPEAKER_00:Um, first of all, chunkosaurus rex is hilarious. I'm surprised it's not a dinosaur my child has tried to teach me about. Yes, I'm not sure. I think there's you know, there's always the obvious ones, right? Like Yeti or Arctic, like the outdoors or like I don't know, like a blue diamond, um nuts or like pind bars. Those make sense.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I like the I like the more out there ones, you know. So I tried to think like who's a who's a popular squirrel? Like Sandy from Oh, yeah, Spongebob, yeah. Where can we do a Spongebob collab?
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:Or um maybe maybe closer to our generation of squirrels, like Rocky and Bullwinkle.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Like a rocky road named after Squirrel.
SPEAKER_02:No, we should do a top 10 famous squirrels list.
SPEAKER_00:Are there 10 famous I don't know? I I did grow up in Northwest Arkansas and one of the local schools is a flying squirrels. So maybe there's maybe there's something there too.
SPEAKER_02:Like if you press me on the most popular squirrels right now, I probably wouldn't be able to do more than two.
SPEAKER_00:So I can I could name a couple of chipmunks, probably.
SPEAKER_02:Oh yeah, chipmunks, yeah. Alvin, Simon, Theodore. Um, yeah. So it's it was really interesting to see, you know, them replicate what the bears did with squirrels and uh, you know, in Alaska and with the bears and then in Texas with with squirrels. So that I thought that one was excellent.
SPEAKER_00:I love a good joy marketing, just uh yes fun. Yeah, let's let's tag into it because it it makes people happy.
SPEAKER_02:Chunkasaurus Rex.
SPEAKER_00:Chunkasaurus Rex, the next dinosaur in the curry household.
SPEAKER_02:Cool. All right, well, that does it for quick hits. Now we're gonna move on to our main topics. All right, so the first main topic is we're gonna talk about AI influencers, right? So this seems like a like a loaded topic, right? Because you have the influencer space, which people have some strong opinions about, you have AI, which people have some strong opinions about, and we're bringing those two together and really trying to unpack like what is up with AI influencers, right? So influencers that aren't real human beings is not anything new. So I think the uh one of the more popular ones is um Lil Miguela, um, and you know, how there was you know an Instagram account that was created around her persona and actually even got brand deals. And so, like there's been a lot of these, you know, you can even call them like digital avatars, but you know, the idea is this is not a real human being, right? And you know, and then you also have on the other side influencer space where influencer and content creation has been a huge growth area for marketers, right? And so you have these authentic voices that are you know really talking about your product, talking about your brand, right? That you're you're leveraging the credibility uh from to that person's audience or the what they the credibility they have in order to reach their audience and help them or and and teach them about a specific product or or brand, right? But then on the other side, now with all of the AI tools that you have, and it's really easy to create an AI version of a human being and make that into something, right? You can take characteristics and you can take attributes of you know that you want to amplify through through AI, and you can you can create this persona um as well. And so, you know, personally I've always thought, okay, wouldn't it be cool if you had a suite of these AI influencers that fit different categories of of people that you want to want to reach and you know, and leverage them in order to communicate about your you know your your products and brands. You know, obviously when you work with something like an AI tech uh format for an influencer, they're always gonna get the brand message right. You know, they're always gonna say what you want them to say. So you can you have some of those challenges on the human side when you have a human influencer is to get them to say exactly what you want to say in the authentic voice that they hold, right? So that's always a tough balance. And so it really looks like there's some opportunities, but also some challenges in that because there's also a lot of pushback around AI, right? In a lot of ways. And so, you know, in your world, have you have you had conversations? Have you uh have you thought about what role AI influencers can play in uh in an influencer company?
SPEAKER_00:I think there's again pros and cons to all of it, right? And um something that really intrigues me about the AI influencer space is that one, think about how quickly a brand could react, engage in trends and things like that with an AI influencer versus a human. In the human element, you have to go and recruit somebody and go through all the steps to contract and all those things. Even if they're already a brand ambassador, yeah, there's still there's still limitations there. And so the speed at which you could also engage, plus some of the other things you're saying, like always you're always gonna hit the the required talking points. You're always going to be brand safe because you have those guardrails. So I think that's another um positive that that brings to light too. Um what's kind of on the other side is to your point, the the authenticity and the community that is cultivated by the human, the human connection. That's that's where we want to engage. Um, and I think you you lose a little bit of that, right? So it's really hard. I do think the same way with everything AI, it can certainly be a great tool, even if you're not publicly facing with an AI influencer, yeah. Is thinking about that as um, you know, like a pressure test. Like give the AI influencer the brief. If they can't hit the brief, maybe the human, the human influencers are gonna struggle with it too. Um, or maybe it's actually I like that idea.
SPEAKER_02:Like it's almost like you're you're setting up an influencer um test, you know, a test case, right? And so, you know, if you have some, if you have this AI influencer uh and you can run your brief through them and see what they do with it can also help you inform how you might work with a human influencer. I like I do like that idea.
SPEAKER_00:I think too, one of the other elements of that is how much AI are the true influencers using now? I mean, that's a talking point that it's still pretty split 50-50 of like how heavy brands are asking or putting requirements around that. Like, are they using it to draft up concepts or to do any automatic editing, even using the native platform AI tools? So there's AI elements probably in a lot of the influencer content that we don't necessarily all see or know about.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, what but what level of transparency is required in that situation, right?
SPEAKER_00:I mean, all of it, you know, should. It's always the should. And um, you know, there are harder uh regulations that you have to follow, right? I mean, the same way you have to disclose it's a partnership. You're also supposed to disclose if if you've used AI tools, um, all of the platforms, TikTok meta, they have a a tool that will just kind of mark it at the bottom that you've used it. Um and that's transparency is key in all of it, I think. Whether you're an influencer that's used tools to generate your content, or you're an actual AI influencer that the brand has cultivated and created, is that transparency. And I think that's what drives the connection in influence in the influencer and social media space, no matter if you're disclosing a partnership or you're disclosing an AI tool.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it is interesting because you know, I think some people are okay with AI as long as they know that it's AI. If you use you're using AI, especially when it comes to something that is like concepts and write-ups and briefs and all that stuff. I think, I think you could probably look at that in a couple of different ways on what is needed. But when it's that public-facing persona, that public-facing content, like people don't want, nobody wants to feel like they're duped, right? So I'm gonna go back because this just hit me. But I think that was the whole challenge with Millie Vanilli back in the day, right? So I don't think what Millie Vanilli did back in the day was really that wrong. But the problem is they weren't transparent about it. Yeah. And I think that's why they got all the backlash they did. Because like if you look at what they were doing then, it's the same thing they do today and in so many ways with lip syncing and in and audio production. So, anyway, people just don't like to be duped, right? And so I think if you're transparent about it, people who want to like it will like it. People who don't like it won't like it. That's just, you know, that's not everybody has to like everything, of course, right? So, you know, what categories or brands do you think may lean itself into using, you know, using AI influencers optimally?
SPEAKER_00:I think it'd be a mistake if you're in like tech to not have to lead with that, right? Like if you're a tech company, you're not leading with AI in some way. This is just another layer to that. Um, I also think just like entertainment gaming, I mean anywhere where you're creating these virtual worlds and immersive, I think those are those are key. I will say one that really is the lead that me as a person and a marketer maybe battle a little bit is around like fashion beauty. Um that is a space that leans heavily into it. But it's it's a fine line because you're in a space where beauty, you're selling beauty, and you're selling beauty with something that's not real. It's hard. That's a hard line to navigate with um how you're being culturally sensitive or how how you are kind of disclosing that and interacting with the audiences. So that one is probably one of the leading categories, but maybe one that I struggle with a little bit on a personal level.
SPEAKER_02:I think fashion I yeah, I I do think there's a difference between beauty and fashion, right? So I think beauty, you know, how people look, how they feel about themselves, a lot of that. I think I You have to be super cautious with and having an a synthetic person who's has no flaws, or even if they were flaws, they were created flaws, is not doesn't feel right to me. I mean, personally. But with fashion, you know, I think it gives you it could give you an opportunity to test certain styles in a very, you know, we'll call it a safe way or an easy way to test styles, and then from there be able to take that to production, right? Um, and I think, you know, there have been a lot of retailers who've tested something similar where not necessarily used AI, but like put a product out there, seeing how fast it sells. And if it sells fast, then they go ahead and they do a full, uh, a full run based upon the the speed in which it sells out. So it is it is really interesting. So what guardrails do you think should be placed? I know we talked a little bit about transparency, but are there are there some specific guardrails that you think um make this platform of AI influencer uh work better? Or do we just say, you know what, let's just hold on doing it and not not approach it for another year or two?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think I mean, like we say with anything AI, there's still gotta be a human element to it. There's gotta be human involved in interviewing. Keep the human in the loop. Um so I think that's that's gonna be key. Um I think also making sure that there's important layers of like the the cultural sensitivity and thinking about that also in terms of how it can be scaled. Yeah. Um, because an AI influencer talking to me in Arkansas may look different to somewhere else in the US, and then add the fact that the internet's everywhere, um, making it go global. So I think that's having that um key element there, as we do with all of AI, making sure to check biases and making sure that those things are scalable. Um, of course, just like general risk assessment as part of that like human element, making sure we're reviewing it. Um, and then I think one of the things it's not necessarily a guardrail, but something to incorporate is really the fun side. Um, we don't want it to be the robot. Like we like influencers because they have either a niche, something we like about them.
SPEAKER_02:I think make them human but not too human.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, make them human but not too human. Give them a party trick or something. I don't know. Um my party trick was always doing the Carlton. Um, but maybe maybe they have their thing um that that kind of helps integrate, integrate there. And if nothing else, use it as a tool to kind of gut check and then and go and then go work with the go work with the human influencers and let them do their thing. And honestly, the human is sometimes where the best stuff has come out in our content.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely a very interesting space. I see it definitely evolving um over time. And I think as as people's attitudes change towards AI or evolve with AI, I think you'll see more and more of these um these things. But I also think there will be a value that will be put on uh human, you know, human versus AI, you know, around that authenticity and around being a real human being. So really interesting space. So um thanks for sharing that. Talk about influencer content, right? That's an area you know really well, right? And so one of the things that has evolved with influencer content is a lot of times influencer content was looked at as a brand building exercise, right? And so influencers would go and they work with a brand and they would talk about a brand. But now, and it's not like it's never been this way, but it seems to be more and more opportunity to take that influencer content and make it work at retail, right? And so, you know, as retail media becomes as, well, it's become extremely big, right? And it continues to evolve, and there is a lot of opportunity within retail media, there is this idea of like, how do I take all this content uh that I that I've created with an influencer and really make it work in a in a retail media channel? And obviously there are some channels within retail media that make a lot more sense, some that are probably a little bit more challenging, but you know, just the ability to repurpose this content in a lot of different ways. The other side of it too is I think I would contend that retail media requires many more assets on a more regular basis than any brand-facing media because retail moves so fast, there's so many changes as well. So, you know, you have a few things. You have this idea that you have this influencer content that you've created and you want to maximize the value of this influencer-created content or content creation. And then you have the side of, well, I need so many new assets, and and you know, to my my buyer is asking for more, and I want to create content that works specifically for that retailer, right? And so you've just had this explosion of content needs, right? So how in your in your world and the way you look at influencer content, what are things that you really think can help make that content extend its value and work well for retail?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, one of the simplest things we do is vary the the types of content we're getting. We we get a mix of things of both video still content. Um and we also work with um creators to maybe work in a way that can be more evergreen. Um, so majority of the content is centered around the product, but maybe beginning or end or you know, just a finite section is dedicated to like the retailer conversion driving, um, that call to action. We also tend to do a mix of elements within the still imagery. You know, let's make sure we get a good variety of the product and the retailer and then just the product. Um, make sure the lifestyle is what really shines through. And we know that a lot of the retailers reward and want more lifestyle type imagery used in in their um placements and things that you can buy. And so we do work really closely with creators to to do a variation there um and make sure we have have some ways we can optimize it on and off um retailer sites or or other buys.
SPEAKER_02:Do you typically work with creators that have already worked with retail in the past so to make that process more streamlined, right? Because I would imagine like working with a a creator that has never worked with retail before, they're not going to understand really the requirements, right?
SPEAKER_00:We definitely lean into more um retail affinity-based uh creators when we're working with with you know a more shopper marketing focus and and tend to work with those that have worked with those specific retailers. But if they haven't worked with that one, most have a very similar expectation or style. Right. Um and and definitely lean into them to have some expertise and then also sometimes push us a bit because they're also consumers. They're they're type of marketer, but they're also a consumer. So it's kind of nice that we get somebody that knows the drill but also pushes pushes the envelope a little bit.
SPEAKER_02:So, what has been like the most creative way that you've seen some of this content used in a retail media ecosystem?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think the most creative is when we don't just move it from influencer social to retail media social or or or website. I think when it crosses a threshold into store, it really on paper, that doesn't sound super creative, but when you think about a social influencer in store, that's huge. Um, one of my it was also a favorite. Very first, one of my very first campaigns was an original song. Um really. What? Um maybe you maybe you heard it. Um it was a holiday song, and so we pushed and did an in-store cut of the song, and so it played on in-store radio. So that's probably not something you would bring to the table at a first idea client, right? Like that's a a a different variation, but I think there's other ways we haven't even begun to think about using in-store.
SPEAKER_02:Just so just to narrow that down for the people that are listening so they they under follow that. So you worked with a creator, and that creator made a custom song for a campaign.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:And that campaign was for a specific retailer, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yes. It was um, I think we can say it, Walmart. Yes, um, and so um we we used that song across the campaign more broadly. We integrated into other influencers' content as well. So that song spanned um the the campaign holistically. But then yes, we we made the song specific to that retailer and they loved it and played it on in-store radio during the holidays, which is a prime, I mean, prime real estate, prime time um to have brain exposure and even to have that that musical artist's music reaching new masses.
SPEAKER_02:And one of the things I've always thought was always a smart idea is to give a retailer the opportunity to have a creator that is dedicated to to them, right? So make that unique. So if you have a specific program and you're running it across multiple retailers, you know, have a different creator for each retailer and have them create content that is bespoke to that retailer and that retailer's messaging and that retailer's shopper, right? And so when you can do that, and when you have something that is a valuable asset, like a song, right? Determining what are the best ways to distribute that asset throughout that ecosystem. And so, like a lot of times, you know, retailers like Walmart, they're not creating songs specifically for a CPG category, right? Why would they do that, right? But if it's somebody that's in CPG, a brand in CPG, want to create a song, and then, oh, well, by the way, Walmart, you can use this in your own, you know, through your own channels. I mean, it just extends the value of that content. You, you know, it's you know, brands have invested a significant amount of money in the in that space. And so it's really about getting that value. And then of course, you know, you're you're earning credibility with your merchant at the same time, right? Oh, this is fun, this is cool, this is specifically to this category. So it really feels like that's that's one really a really good unlock is content that is unique and bespoke to that specific retailer that can be reused in purpose across multiple purposes. Now, I know you and we've worked together a long time, but there are probably some legal things that need to be considered in a situation like that. What would what what would some of that be? Because I know you've you're you've been really good at influencer contracts. I know you hate influencer contracts, but you're really good at it. So some of the some of the things I because I don't think people think about that. Oh, I'll just get with an influencer and they'll create a piece of content. I can do whatever I want with it. Well, that's not always the case, is it?
SPEAKER_00:No, um, yeah, I kind of joke um when the pandemic hit, I also earned my law degree. Um, there's I mean, there's a lot and that goes into it, and there's a lot of limitations in terms of what you can ask for and also what you're gonna get for the price. Um what what you got probably 10 years ago, five years ago, and even two years ago is very different than what you get today. So one of the biggest things is navigating the usage and not only how long you can use it, um, but where. Um most savvy influencers are gonna maybe give you social and web and pay in like paid media use. Um, but things like in-store are gonna cost you, or if you see something like on a connected TV ad, um that's that's crossing a different threshold, right? That's getting kind of toe in the line of being an actor. Um, so there's a lot there. Um and the more you you use it, the more um it can be governed by other bodies too. So not just being an influencer piece of content, um, you start getting to things like SAG AFTRA. Um, and and people are considered um being an actor, or in that case on music, um there the after part covers the music. So there's a lot there that people just don't really understand, and there's a lot of risk too, in terms of, you know, just the many terms that you have to negotiate. So a lot to learn there, but um there's definitely some great standards that have been set. And and a lot of brands have really kind of figured out like their sweet spot too. Um, because to your point, the demand for the number of number of assets and the things that turn over, you might not need to use it for five years. So maybe don't go after that because you're you need refreshed.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, we want it in perpetuity.
SPEAKER_00:We want it in perpetuity. Um, yeah, scary word. Uh still do that occasionally. But yeah, I think there's definitely some more standards being in place and kind of expectations that that everyone's kind of figured out as this has become a more prevalent part of the process.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, one part I think is really important also to think about in this space is like have a content plan. I think it's too often, you know, it's uh a program is looked at in isolation. Oh, I'm gonna have an influencer, influencer is gonna create content. Great. Well, what are you gonna do with that content? Well, I don't know. I don't know what we're gonna do with that content really. Like, oh yeah, you know, maybe we'll boost it through social or or whatever, but like have a content plan. Like, you know, so many times there are assets that go unused because there's no plan, right? And so, like, how can you get the value out of what you just spent if you don't have a plan on how to really use that content?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's definitely I that's one of the very first things I I stop and ask before we get, you know, start checking off, okay. We this need this many years and this, it's it let's talk, let's step back, let's talk about your bigger usage, let's, or you know, your bigger campaign plan or um your strategy over the next one year, two years, and that can help us shape it. Um, because I think a lot of times people do want to just jump in and start making content. And then you learn down the stretch, like, man, you know what actually performs best with this audience? Static. And guess what we didn't get?
SPEAKER_02:No, wow. No static.
SPEAKER_00:Um, or maybe we we shot a video and um all of the call to action is at the end and people are dropping off after 10 seconds. Like having that plan and knowing ahead helps us to frame up the storytelling and what we capture, making sure we have the right elements along with how long you're using it.
SPEAKER_02:Great insights, Emma. I know you you've been in that space quite a long time. And it's been great, great to have your voice leaning into this topic. It's, you know, I think you know, assets and content creation is, you know, an again another area in retail that is going to continue to be an opportunity uh for brands and for retailers and obviously, you know, partners, you know, like like the company you work for as well. So um awesome. So thanks for that. All right. So now we get to end things today with a new segment called Campaigns We Love. And so uh Emma I have done Emma and I have done this this segment uh previously to together where we uh we search the internet for, or maybe you must see it on something called a TV, but you know, search the internet or a TV, and we might find an ad that we find particularly interesting. So um first one we're gonna have is Emma. You're you have you have one from Huggies that you want to present as a campaign that you love.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. Um so Huggies launched Do It for the Team. Okay. Um, nine months ahead of the World Cup.
SPEAKER_02:Nine months. It seems like an interesting time frame.
SPEAKER_00:Very strategic, it sounded like, um, but perfectly timed, um, very, you know, cultural timing in the sitting largest single sport draw globally.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, World Cup is a little bit world.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Um but really, I mean, just funny, they they launched a long form 10-minute like mood setting. I won't get into what that means, but they offered a sweepstakes to go along with it. So a supply of free diapers for six weeks starting in June 2026. If you, you know, maybe are part of this movement, if you will. So just a fun um way to play into the cultural timing, to, you know, maybe be a brand fit or find a way to be a brand fit. Sometimes it's not an obvious play. So what do you think? I mean, I'm drawn to diapers because I'm still in that world, but does it shine for you?
SPEAKER_02:Well, I think you know, having uh a reason to take time off from work to watch sports is a good reason to do anything. And so I would say that yeah, I think, you know, I think it's it's smart. Um and it it does, it does, it is definitely very, very cheeky and it kind of fits into you know the right cultural, you know, timing of things. So um, yeah, I mean, obviously there's a lot of people who love the World Cup and will be glued to TV for that. And so, you know, why not kind of pair those things together? So that's that's really cool.
SPEAKER_00:Hey, as someone that was on maternity leave during March Madness, which is like, my holy grail, I get it. Take the time and enjoy if if that's that's one of your loves.
SPEAKER_02:All right. So my campaign, Emma, is Walmart with their Who Knewville holiday campaign. So Who Knew has been Walmart's platform uh for uh several months, you know, maybe it's the full year at this point, around you know, introducing people to uh to Walmart, like almost reintroducing Walmart to consumers again. Uh, because I think you know, there are perceptions or have been perceptions about Walmart, and this is reintroducing what what those perceptions could be. Um, and Walmart does offer way more than I think what people expected. So I think it's a great uh platform campaign campaign. But you know, a person like myself, I love nostalgia. And so this one really leans into for the holiday season, leans into you know, Dr. Seuss's inspired type of of world and in Hooville and really makes it very imaginative and really kind of brings together, you know, the best of you know what Walmart is introducing with this nostalgia and the season of the holiday season and bringing all of that uh together, you know. And so, you know, it's it's it's been something that I've I've found to be really interesting and the way they've approached it and and brought that to light. So that that's you know, my campaign is Who Knew Bill?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that honestly, I love it. They've been leaning just so well into that nostalgia space and just I think about the back to school mean girls when that launched, that was such a big moment. Um, so I really I love that. Like it really is that's kind of been their their vibe, if you will, the last few years. They've really leaned well into some of those type of storytelling moments, too.
SPEAKER_02:Love love some tea pain. Definitely was a musical moment, we'll call it with with the with tea pain. So awesome. Well, thanks for thanks for sharing that. Uh so I hope you all like the camp campaigns we love. Uh, we'll bring more of those in uh future episodes of Retail Media Vibes. All right. Well, that's a wrap for this episode of Retail Media Vibes. I want to say a huge thank you to Emma Curry for joining me on this uh this episode and bringing her vibes to the show today. Um, anything, Emma, that you want to plug or talk about before we wrap things up today?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean, two main things. So, first, it's it's holiday season. The team has been cranking out some amazing work and working incredibly hard. So excited that that content is going to be out there. So maybe check out um either my LinkedIn or SheSpeaks for some of that in the near future. But before I kind of wrap up, I do want to say a huge thank you and shout out to the campaigns team at SheSpeaks. You have been incredible and I am so impressed with everything that you've been able to accomplish. So thank you all for that. Um, but lastly, kind of more importantly, this time of year especially, um I'm really moved to make sure that people have, you know, a warm, full belly during the holiday season. So if you're looking for a place, if you're able to give, I encourage you to give to a local food bank. And you can find one by um visiting feedingamerica.org and either doing a monetary donation or going in person. Um, so those are the vibes I'm ending with today.
SPEAKER_02:Awesome. Well, thanks for that, Emma. Appreciate that. So I hope you all enjoyed this episode of Retail Media Vibes. If you have any comments or feedback on the show, please send me a note at retailmedia vibes at gmail.com. Also, be sure to like, subscribe, provide comments to the to to the content so that more people learn about retail media vibes. So thank you all so much. And as always, I will try to do better next time. So BV out of the