Retail Media Vibes
Retail Media Vibes is your marketing lens on the world of shopping, commerce, and culture. Each episode brings fresh conversations with industry insiders who break down the stories driving how brands reach shoppers and how shoppers connect with brands. From big retail moments to the latest shifts in digital media, it’s your front-row seat to the strategies shaping the future of commerce.
We keep it smart, energetic, and actionable, mixing sharp analysis with good vibes so you walk away informed and inspired. Whether you’re a retail pro, a marketer looking for an edge, or simply curious about where the industry is headed, this podcast is made for you.
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Retail Media Vibes
Ep. 12 - CEO to Reset: Jessica Hendrix on Leadership and Letting Go
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Leadership isn’t a title; it’s a set of choices you make when the ground won’t stop moving. That’s the through line of our conversation with Jessica Hendrix, former CEO of Saatchi & Saatchi X and a leader who’s navigated retail, agencies, and a CMO seat while keeping culture and clarity front and center.
We trace Jessica’s path from selling phones at a mall cart to guiding a global agency inside Publicis. She breaks down how she set vision in shifting markets using a simple framework, business, work, people, and why choosing fewer goals with more intention can actually accelerate results. We dig into the evolution from “shopper marketing” to commerce, the rise of retail media, and how Gen Z now steers family purchases from a phone. Her take is practical: the channels changed, the job didn’t: meet people in the moments that move them to buy, reduce friction, and measure what matters.
Culture comes alive in the details. Jessica talks transparency with limits, vulnerability that builds trust, and the power of authenticity to unlock talent. We go deep on the Enneagram, her Two, wing Three wiring, and how leaders can pair high performance with high humanity without burning out. She shares real boundaries that worked, two-night travel caps, morning school walks, quarterly solo resets, and the grace-and-accountability balance that keeps teams healthy and productive.
There’s a raw, important chapter here, too: a year of breast cancer, skin cancer, and spinal surgery that ended with a clean bill of health. Jessica’s lessons are urgent and universal, keep the checkups, design for recovery, accept help, and they reinforce her central message: take care of your people by taking care of yourself. Today she’s consulting and coaching, helping leaders set cleaner goals, build resilient cultures, and navigate AI-era change without losing their center.
If this conversation sparked something for you, follow the show, share it with a colleague who leads teams, and leave a review with one takeaway you’ll act on this week. Your note helps others find the podcast and keeps these stories flowing.
Opening & Guest Introduction
SPEAKER_00What's up, party people? BV here, and welcome to another episode of Retail Media Vibes, a doing business in Bentonville podcast. I am recording live here at Podcast Video Studios in Rogers, Arkansas. It's great to be back and have a very special guest with me today. So we're going to do an interview. I have the pleasure of interviewing someone who has been a leader and a coach, and specifically a mentor and boss for me at a key time in my career. And, you know, I think not all of us get that opportunity to have a conversation or interview someone who has been their boss and several years later and catch up with them and talk about some of the things from the past. So I'm very excited today to uh introduce uh Jessica Hendricks. Welcome to Retail Media Vibes, Jess.
SPEAKER_01Thank you for having me, BB. It's great to see you in uh a different setting.
SPEAKER_00Hi, well, I know I in preparation for this podcast, it was like, it was like the easiest thing and maybe the most difficult thing at the same time, right? Because it's like, you know, you don't want to use somebody who you would respect and someone who you've appreciated and and you know, but you know really well, right? We've we'll talk about how long we've known each other, but we've known each other a long time. Um, we remember when we first had that first introduction way back when I was going through my interview process at Satchy X. And, you know, always having a like an idea like, oh, it would be great to you know work together and and and have those opportunities. And obviously we we have. So it's been a little bit, oh man, what should I talk about? What should I say? What can I say? It's just, but it's it's great to have you on today.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, I I'm really excited to be here. I think as we were chatting uh in preparation, you know, we do know each other really well. So staying focused may be challenging and um not telling uh all the stories that we we know about each other uh will be important, but hopefully we'll be able to cover some fun ones.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, this could be the longest episode ever, right? Without editing, right? But we're not we're not gonna do that.
SPEAKER_01Okay, don't don't challenge me.
SPEAKER_00I I will save the audience. So um how we usually start off with on on retail media vibes, a little vibe chat, get to know Jess a little bit. Obviously, I know Jess, but the audience would probably like to know a little bit more about you. So this we'll get a little bit more into your details of your background, but like just for a overview of of you and your career and your background, I'd love to hear that for the audience.
Career Origins In Retail & Wireless
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Well, uh, I would say just if you think about kind of my career overall, I uh started in retail. So in the way, way back, I wanted to go to law school and be an attorney. Uh at some point, I decided to get a job at a retail store selling wireless phones. So I know you and I perhaps share a little bit of wireless. For the audience, I used to work for Nokia way back in the I actually have my Nokia watch on. It's with things, which is a subdivision of Nokia. Um, and so I was in the wireless business for about 10 years, uh, right out of college, um, and really never went back to my hey, I want to be an attorney uh dream because I really enjoyed retail. And I was in retail sales, then I transitioned over to marketing uh and into management and leadership. And that ultimately, I think, led me into I really love business, but the common thread was always retail. And so when I had an opportunity to uh apply at Satch EX, uh, when my husband and I moved back to Northwestern.
SPEAKER_00Who role was that when what did you apply for?
SPEAKER_01It's a great, it's I'm so glad you asked. Um, I applied for an account director role. And I was a director in the previous role that I had had. Um, and I was told that uh directors at Satch EX um had high expectations and they they wanted to bring me in. You may know this uh well, and they wanted to bring me in at a senior account manager level. So account management, client services, if you think about kind of solving challenges with your clients. Um, and you know, they said, hey, we want to set you up for success. Uh and and at the end of the day, when I look back on that decision, it was a great decision because what I got to do was come in, prove myself, get promoted, uh, and really show people that I'd earned that promotion. And so I essentially kind of made my way um up the ranks, if you will. Uh uh, I'll try not to lean too much into military language for for UBV, uh, hearkening.
SPEAKER_00For those that don't know, I was also in the military.
SPEAKER_01I'm revealing so much about it.
SPEAKER_00I know. It's like I feel like I'm being interviewed.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, that's my plan. That's always my plan. Um, and so when I moved my way uh up up the ranks, I really just expected, you know, at some point maybe I'd be a GM, I'd run the office. Um, but I I had um a really great opportunity to lead the company. Uh Dina Howell retired um and approached me um and ultimately said that she was recommending me for the role, which is really frightening uh at the time because I really hadn't planned on that. So you're catching a theme here. So theme is Jessica doesn't plan. I don't well, I plan.
SPEAKER_00Um you plan differently.
SPEAKER_01But I planned differently. And I I hadn't seen that as a plan on my career horizon, at least at that stage. Um, you know, I had a four and a six-year-old, uh, and I knew that there would be some decisions that I'd have to make around, you know, what would that look like for my family. So became CEO of Saatchi and Satchy X about 10 years into my career there. Actually, I'm sorry, about um nine years into my career, and then sat in that role for another nine years as CEO of the agency.
Rising At Saatchi X & Becoming CEO
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I think you know, and I was I was at Saatchi X at the time where Dina was the you know the president CEO of of Saatchi X at that time. And you know, I knew the the the transition you you making into that role. Like those were big shoes to fill, right? Because you know, Dina and Andy, you know, we were well known for being like the pioneers in you know shopper marketing and what shopper marketing was. And I've heard many of this, many of the stories on how it became, you know, what it was. And Dina was very proud of that. But obviously, Dina was, you know, deciding to move on, fill in those role, that role at that level and with all that expectation, and obviously working with PNG. And um, I think we both can talk to the experience of working with a PNG and the expectations around that. You know, what were some of the things that you were mostly concerned about stepping in into that role and filling her shoes?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. There was, I'll call it kind of the um capability side of it, the technical side of it, which was, you know, even managing a PL. You know, I had budgets that I had to work within in my previous roles, leading the account management team, but I didn't have a PL, like a full PL. I also hadn't had a lot of exposure into some of the upper level leadership within Publicists. So Satchy X is part of um Publicist Group. And so navigating some of the conversations that you have to have within your leadership. I don't know who coined the famous phrase everyone has a boss, no matter what your role is.
SPEAKER_02Of course.
SPEAKER_01And I um was CEO of Satchy X, but I was a part of a much bigger ecosystem. And so my constituent base not only grew from the clients that I was serving, the employees that I, you know, was trying to lead, but also the Publicis group leadership team, which was responsible for helping me set my goals, set my targets, give me the resources that I needed to be able to deliver the outcomes that we wanted to deliver. And so that was challenging. That was a big learning curve for me. Um, and probably where I had the biggest growth, uh, definitely as a leader.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And I think, you know, again, I was there when the transition took place, you know, and I, you know, you know, Dina was an amazing CEO and definitely took the company to a new level. You know, but there was a level of excitement when you joined, right? And and, you know, it was, oh yeah, wow, we can definitely see Jess in this role. I I will say just personally, in conversations that I had, it was like nobody ever doubted was this the right person for that role at the time. It were I've, you know, in the conversations I was part of. It was like, so it was a lot of confidence going into you becoming becoming that CEO and obviously holding that role for for such a such a long time.
SPEAKER_01Well, thank you. I I appreciate that. Um, I definitely it it was a surprising path, but um honestly the confidence of the people around me was incredibly encouraging. So I appreciate that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And so obviously, you know, that time at SatyX was an important time. Obviously, you had, you know, in retail and wireless was important for you. Like, I really love the audience to hear like what were what what were like a key experience or key things that you were able to do in your in your career to kind of set set you up to be, you know, an amazing, amazing leader. You know, was it what happened before you became the CEO? And when, you know, what what gave you the confidence? Because sometimes I think a lot of people suffer from imposter syndrome, right? Like I could never be that, but I'll fake it until I make it, right? And so, and then they they kind of figure it out. But you have to have some level of of confidence that you can do the job.
Leading Through Expectations & Publicis Dynamics
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. So I I mean, uh I will say that whatever job that I have held, that would include everything from waiting tables to working in a retail store. I worked at a cart in a mall, like a little, you know, oh yeah, yeah. I worked in the cart. I sold phones out of a cart in the mall. Um, to uh working within marketing organizations where you've got to work with an agency or you're working with other partners to deliver on your vision or your goals. You've got to build relationships. And what you've got to do in those relationships if you've is you've got to find what's the common ground that's gonna allow us to get to what we want to get to. And that might be maybe somebody does want a cell phone and their credit isn't um strong enough. And so we've got to figure out another way to get them to that outcome. Or I've got a um uh CPG client who is trying to overcome a really big sales challenge with Walmart or a Sam's Club or you know, another retailer. And we've got to sit down and figure out how are we gonna make that happen. Those were all kind of stepping stone paths for me in understanding the intersection of how relationships matter across all of those pieces. And yes, you can deliver great outputs and you can you can deliver great things, but you've got to really be aligned with the partners that you're working with and and the people that you're leading. So I had small teams in different roles that I had that that grew into larger teams and really identifying how do you take what people are really great at? How do you amplify it? How do you make sure that, you know, people are in the right roles, working with the right people, you know, at the right time, uh to really, you know, again, deliver on what you're trying to get out the door. And and each of the roles that I was in before kind of prepared me for that.
SPEAKER_00I personally hate business cliches, but you know, one that has I and I've resisted them, you know, to a certain extent. And like, but relationships really do matter, right? And so, you know, whether that relation, those relationships are with the people that you rely on on your day on the day-to-day, on the day-to-day business team that you're working with, and and because a lot of times those relationships have to be based on trust, right? We trust that everybody's gonna do what they're what they're gonna do. But those relationships when you're talking externally, right, getting on common ground, I I love that because you know, that also reminded me of, you know, we were talking about the military before, but you know, I was uh I was an instructor in the Air Force. And, you know, one of the things that I tried to instill with in airmen were that that common ground. Like we all have a mission, we all came from a lot of different places, we all we all were crazy enough to raise our hand and say we were gonna do this. And so, you know, finding that common ground. So I think those are really great, great parts to you know, building those buildings, you know, your leadership foundation, it sounds like.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and you've got to, you know, you've got to set a vision that is, you know, stretches people, but you've also that vision has to also be based on what you know about the teams that you're leading, right? Because you've got to be able to set something that feels like a stretch, but also feels achievable, you know. And we always talked about big, hairy, audacious goals, yes, the B Hag. Yeah. There were big goals that we put out there, but it gave all of us something to look toward. Um, but knowing the what the individuals also wanted and needed was part of setting a bigger collective goal. And it was about common ground. And it was also about, you know, the goals that our clients had. So uh it's all a part of it.
SPEAKER_00One of the things I find to be difficult personally is like, how do you set a vision when everything is so dynamic, right? It's almost like so hard to even set goals, right? Because you know, you set a goal today, and next week that goal could be totally different or or something has changed to really modify that. But even setting a vision abroad, because a vision should last at least a certain amount, hopefully a year at least, right? And so how do you how do you think about setting a vision in a world where like retail media, where things are continually changing, obviously AI is changing things, like there's so much change that happens. How do you how do you how do you think about set setting that vision and creating that vision?
Building Leadership Foundations & Relationships
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so I don't know when it happened in my career at Satchie X. You probably know what I'm about to say, but at some point I I landed on a framework that's you know, the business, the work, and the people, people being the foundation of all of those things. And um, you know, we called it the BWP, probably some people call it the three Ps, you know, uh probably price, price, and price. But but I I really tried to keep it simplified to those three areas. Okay, what's a business goal that we can achieve? And that might be a revenue goal, that might be a uh a margin uh uh objective, what's the work uh goal and that might look like what awards do we want to win? You know, what are those pieces? And then on the people side of it, what do we want our people to achieve, or what do we want our people to um look toward? And and that could be a variety of things, but what I'll I'll say is this I I what I learned over my time in that rule was less is more and slow is fast. And so choosing simple but clear goals and taking the time to really think about what is truly possible and how we're going to achieve that so that we can go fast in the moments when we need to go fast. And even though we have a different world today with AI, to your point, and all of the pressures, I actually think going slow is more important than ever because the reality is the acceleration of what you're gonna do as you move forward from those goals is gonna feel faster than ever to the people around you. So you gotta make sure you're spending the time crafting what that goal is. And again, I think it's keeping it simple. Um, don't make it complicated, go back to it over and over and over again. Don't get too distracted by what your competitors are doing. Like you have to know what your competitors are doing. But if you are, if you are changing your objectives based on what everyone else is doing, it it's it's probably not going to be the right thing for you because it's not rooted in in your core values and objectives.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's let's talk about company culture for a minute, right? At Satji X, it's well known as a great place to work a strong, strong culture. Uh, people love to work there. The work is hard, but people like you know like to rally and help each other and support each other, right? And you know, under your leadership, you know, company culture, you know, was a very important part and was very strong. What are some of the things that you think of when establishing a strong company culture, especially again in the dynamic environment and especially an environment where people are working really hard?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I I think there's a couple of things. Number one, I think transparency, again, that word is probably overused, but I think it's really important. Um, and that could even look like this is something. Let's say you have a change that's happening uh within the organization above you that you've got to communicate down, but you can't necessarily share all the details. Even saying, I can't share all the details. Right. Here's why I can't. Um, that goes a long way with people in trusting you. And it's all about trust, right? They've got to trust you and they've got to feel like they are in a safe environment where you are, you know, going to continually um share with them what's happening, how it impacts them. And then also just having uh the ability to step back and think about what's going on in their lives, right? So we everybody comes to work every day, right? But there's all kinds of things happening, both in their individual lives, whether that's family things happening with family members, something happening with them financially, or what's happening, you know, culturally, right? I mean, uh, we went through COVID, uh, you know, there's a lot happening right now, and and people are showing up with those things on their minds. And so, how do you make sure to acknowledge that while keeping people continually focused on it? And so for me, culture was being transparent, acknowledging that people had lives outside of work and that um, you know, we tried to create environments where people felt um like they could keeping the business in mind while also making sure people felt seen, heard, supported.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's a that's a tough balance, right? Because, you know, what I'm hearing from you is a very empathetic form of of leadership that goes into that goes into that, right? But you, you know, you and I have talked about, right, but you still have a business to run. Right. Right. And so what are some of the things that go through your mind when you are trying to balance the empathy, the exactly what you're talking about, knowing that people have a lot going on in their lives? You know, there's a lot of you know, so social issues that could be happening in in in the broader world, but at the same time, there's the a mission, there, there's business to be done. Like, how do you how do you help like for any leaders that are out there and they're trying to balance those things? What are some of the things that they should really think about? I I know you said transparency, and I think that's absolutely a great way. And you can't be transparent about everything that's you know that has to happen.
Vision Setting Amid Constant Change
SPEAKER_01But what are some some other ways that you could well and and on the transparency side, I'll add one additional thought to that. And I think a lot of leaders will relate to this, which is you could be 100% transparent about something, and I think people might still think that you aren't being transparent. And that is just a part of it. But what I think you can also do is be vulnerable as vulnerable as you feel comfortable being, right? And so I think that is one of the things as a leader that is so important, right? So, you know, I really always tried to reference my family, you know, or something I was child, I was struggling with at home, or um, you know, tried to acknowledge if someone had shared something I knew they had kind of shared publicly, I might, I might share that or bring it up in a way that allowed people to see themselves in that moment. Um, and vulnerability is is tricky because um you don't want to uh make it so much about yourself that you lose the the audience, but you also want to make sure people can see themselves in you as a leader.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01Um it's the humanity, it's the humanity of it, absolutely. And and seeing people as humans while running a business uh is incredibly important. And again, that ties back to the transparency, right? You know, saying things like we are a business, we do have objectives that we have to meet. Uh and people, people people understand that. If you if you give them the information, they can understand it and they can process it as long as you are still showing up um with that transparency and vulnerability and humanity.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So because I know you extremely well, I you know, I know you're an Enneagram too.
SPEAKER_01What?
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_00And so I think and I'm also an Enneagram too as well. So that's probably why we relate to so many things. But I have found in my own personal leadership journey that sometimes being an Enneagram too is very hard to be a leader. Um there are parts of of of that that you know sometimes makes you consider things that may delay some decisions or rationalize some some things. As a e as the most senior type of leader at you know, CEO of an agency in a major holding company, being Enneagram too, first I'd like for you to explain what that means for the audience that doesn't know. But how has that impacted your leadership style or how you've led in the past?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. No, I well, I love the Enneagram. I think my latest joke is I learned it from you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. You and Aaron Campbell.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. If someone is a loves the Enneagram and is a CrossFitter, which one do they tell you about first? And that's that's um, yeah, that's my new, I don't know. Um so here's why I love the Enneagram. So the Enneagram is a um, it's essentially a personality test, if you will, that uh has nine different types. Um, they are uh head, heart, um, and gut uh centers. And what's interesting about them is they they really speak to your motivation. So I I am a big fan of lots of tools. I think the strength finders um are great. I think Disc is great, I think Myers Briggs is great. But Enneagram has probably been the most helpful to me understanding myself and also understanding my spouse uh and also people I I work with.
SPEAKER_00This is not a this is not a therapy show.
SPEAKER_01I know that's not that kind of show. Um uh but the the Enneagram, because of the way that it works, you have a number that um particularly speaks to your type, your style, your motivation. And then you wing to either the right or to the left of that number. So if you're a two, you're either a wing three um or you might be a two-wing one. A two is the helper, uh, and a three is the achiever. Um, and a one uh is the perfectionist. You are a two-wing one. I am a two-wing three. And what's interesting is I have a very strong wing three. So I often get mistyped as a three because uh I probably in my business life show up as an achiever and show up in that space a bit more. Um, in my natural habitat at home, I definitely show up more as a two. And here's why it helps you. As a two, what I find myself wanting to do is to help, right? That's a helper.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
Culture, Transparency & Trust
SPEAKER_01And so what you have to be really careful of is you can't help everyone all at the same time. And so as a two, you've got to really like zoom out and think about what are the best places for that type of activity and behavior to show up. And in the role that I was in, it was really about helping my clients succeed and achieve their outcomes. It was about how can I help the uh people on the team succeed, thrive. And then also, how do I help the organization that I sit within, again, Publicis Group, thrive because I knew that would benefit the agency as well. What it really does or challenges you too is also how do you take care of yourself? And that is one of the challenges for it, too, is we are often so focused on helping others, we forget ourselves and we forget to um take care of ourselves, to pay attention to how we're feeling, how we might be manifesting those things. Um, and sometimes it becomes very, very overwhelming to the point where, um, and you know this, I would often um go on a quarterly retreat. Um, yeah. And that was my way of shutting the rest of the world out so that I could all I could refill my cup. Um, and then I could also just get focused on what do I need to accomplish, both for myself uh and my family and my organization.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah, it's it's it's interesting. It, you know, I actually I had an opportunity and I reported to you, and you know, you were my boss for a while. And I you've heard this before, and I've I've said there is no B V without Jess, right? And so when I first joined Saatchi, I didn't report to you. I had other other leaders, other managers, and you know, eventually, you know, over time I did get that opportunity. And you know, you being a two, being a helper, you know, you you tend to see things in people that I think you know may not necessarily they see them themselves. Right. And you know, for me at the time, you know, in my career, I was I was doing well in my job and and I had some credibility in in the company at the time. But you know, we had a discussion and it was actually just something simple where you uh saw something in me that I didn't really think I could be in myself. And you encouraged me, you know, it was it was just simple stuff, like you really brought out the opportunity for B V to be BB. And before, because really at that time I was Brandon, right? I was Brandon, and that's what everybody knew me as, right? And somehow there was this rebranding, right? And hey, wear your sneakers, you know, do do the cool stuff, you know, do the thing. And you really like encouraged that and you believed in me and you brought that, brought, brought that out. And you know, it was such an important part for me and my career. I mean, honestly, probably this podcast would not exist without that spark that star. Yeah, well, I mean, this is it's true, right? Because, you know, I'd use the power of reflection, right? And I look at the chain of events that got me to the moment that I'm in at that moment. And I do recall, recall that. How do you, you know, how do you figure out like what are the ways to unlock some of these things within a person that you see that they may not even see in themselves to kind of get them to advance as a as a leader or you know, another valuable contributor in an organization?
SPEAKER_01Well, first of all, uh, you know, that's that's um a really big compliment, and I very much appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00Well, it's it's true.
Vulnerability, Humanity & Accountability
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, and and I I I I have to tell this story, and and I'm sorry, BB, if this puts us over time. But when BB first came to Saatchi, I was on his interview roster. Uh, and BB came in, uh, a Brandon came in.
SPEAKER_02Brandon came in.
SPEAKER_01Brandon came in in a basically a suit. Yeah. Uh and maybe wingtips. Like you had definitely like shiny black shoes on, a tie, like a white shirt. Uh and you know, what became very clear to me after spending some time with you was, you know, there was this other side of you that um, you know, was just kind of funky and Brandon and, you know, BV. It was the BV side. And so, you know, we're an agency, right? And I think that was part of what uh I knew even out of that interview process was that, you know, this was you were you were presenting to the interview audience. Um, but I also knew you were an agency person, like I could just tell it in you. And so I think what ultimately got us to that place was you felt safe in the conversations that we were having about what you wanted to accomplish and what you wanted out of your career. You felt seen, which allowed you to be more authentic and bring your authentic self to to um to the workplace. And so what I think I would encourage other leaders to do is make sure you're creating that space and make sure you're creating that space for conversations. Like, well, you know, what what do you think? Like, what's a hidden strength that you have that I might not think about or see? And and that person is probably gonna tell you what it is. And so, you know, what I loved is on my last day uh at the agency when you walked into my office, and you know, I can't remember exactly what sweatshirt you had on or what was on it, but you I know you had a a dope uh pair of kicks on, and that they probably were like a special edition, limited edition, very rare shoe. Um, and that was just a part of your brand. And I think it made you show up to to work in the best way possible. And I think that's what every leader wants is how do I get my team and the individuals on my team to show up at their absolute best? And that's just seeing, I think, the the whole person.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, it was definitely, you know, a a key moment in in in my career. Um, my wife says BV doesn't live here. So like the BB, when BB goes, yeah, Brandon's at home, BV is outside, outside of what BB is on the podcast.
SPEAKER_01Sorry, Sarah.
SPEAKER_00It's it's okay. Um, but yeah, so I mean, I think it was just moments like that. I think you know, what was important was, you know, you had belief in me. Like I, you know, one of the frameworks that I think about a lot and I've thought about for a long time in my career is like people need three things in order to be successful: belief, hope, and love. Right. They need, you know, people to believe in them. They need to have hope for what's, you know, the future and love, and of not obviously romantic, but love support, right? In in a supportive way to help them grow, right? And I think, you know, if you take a step back at that that moment, I think it it hit on hit on all three of those.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, for sure. And and I, you know, it's funny. Um I'm doing some consulting uh work, and one of the clients that I work with who's amazing, um, she talks a lot about high performance and high humanity. And she also talks about love at work. And again, not romantic love, but like, you know, loving the people that you work with. And leaving Sachi X was incredibly difficult for me because I loved the people that I worked with. And uh, and that was a very broad that I mean that in a broad sense as well. And I mean that across the organization and across group. You know, there were a lot of people that that I loved working with and for and around. Um, and gosh, you know, how lucky are we to be able to feel that way uh when we're, you know, we're putting our energy towards something. I think it's cool. Um, it may be a little cliched, but uh I think it's pretty cool. So I'm I'm I agree with you. I think those are three really important things.
Enneagram Insights And Leadership Style
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Let's talk about your departure. You know, you you you you brought it up. I didn't. So let's so you did eventually leave Satyax. I did. And you went to a you went to another role. I did. I think, you know, that was obviously a very difficult decision. Yeah. I think, you know, we'd love to hear a little bit about how, you know, that decision, why you made it, how you made it, you know, what you know, what that experience was like.
SPEAKER_01So it was a really, really difficult decision. It was uh probably one of the hardest I've I've made for all the reasons um that we just what that we just touched on. And, you know, if you know me, uh, you know I love to read, uh, I love to learn. I, you know, in college, I sat in the front row. I can't believe I'm saying that, but I did. And um that really is is something that's really important for me to have in whatever role that I'm in. And I'd been in that seat for for almost nine years and or almost 10, I think. And I really wanted to continue to learn and grow, right? I uh am 52, so age reveal. I don't know if you have you had an age reveal in no, I have not. Okay, well, congratulations.
SPEAKER_00I even know how old I am.
SPEAKER_01Oh, okay, well, good. Um, so I I knew that I wanted to have another chapter in my career. Yeah, you know, and and I I honestly don't know if I'll ever stop working, but um I knew I wanted to have another chapter and I wanted to learn, I wanted to grow and I wanted to learn. And I had had, you know, being in the retail business for as long as I had been in it, being on the edge of commerce, working with the world's largest retailer and the world's, you know, biggest CPG companies and electronics companies and and fast food companies was incredible. Um, but I was I was being recruited um by a regional grocer high V based out of Iowa. I'm from Iowa. Uh, the individual that was was recruiting me was someone I'd known for a very long time, had a huge influence and impact on me. And it it just felt like a really great opportunity for me to learn and grow. And so, you know, I I felt like it was the right thing for me to walk to. Um, I didn't feel like I was leaving, running away from, um, but I was walking into something else. And um, and it was still incredibly hard. Uh I actually was just telling Jody, uh my husband Jody, about um how difficult that decision was and just the the the feelings that I had during the departure, but also the the love that I had for that experience, you know, but that that I just still look back on it with, you know, very, very fond memories.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, I'm no longer at Satch X myself. Um, you know, and I've moved on to something, something else. But I do understand what you're saying for when it comes to to that next chapter, right? You know, even in my journey, you know, I had been a Satch X, you know, going, you know, heading towards 13 years, you know, and then an opportunity came came along, and it's like, okay, I'm older than you, but I, you know, I always say I'm in the fourth quarter of my career, right? So is this gonna provide me a unique opportunity that I wouldn't, you know, have had previously, you know, am I gonna be able to go work with someone that I trust and you know, you know, checking all the all the boxes? Because you know, we do have a limited time on this planet, right? And we want to do so many things. And I think you know, you and I similarly have big big ideas and a lot of things that we we want to do. And you know, you you do have to take those leaps. I mean, honestly, like for me, and I know this is supposed to be about you, but not about me, but like that's what got me to Saatchi in the first place. Like, the reason why I left the marketing arm at Omnicom Agency and came to Sachi X was because I wanted that next chapter. And that, you know, obviously that chapter was a long, amazing chapter. And so for me, it was to to move. So I'm hearing a little bit of that in in your your explanation of absolutely, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01And and what's you know, what's great about um what what's hard about those decisions is also the thing that's great about it, which is you do have relationships. I still have, you know, relationships with people that are there. I want the only the best for the agency.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, me too. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, of course. And um, you know, so when you're leaving, you're you're processing the grief of, you know, leaving this role, this this period of time in your life and and also celebrating moving on to the next thing. Um, and so, you know, it's it's it is a really reflective time, but I felt really good about making that decision at the time. Yeah.
Unlocking Talent & Authentic Personal Brands
SPEAKER_00So, you know, you you came in, you repla replaced Dina, you know, in the CEO role. Like there was been a lot of change in shopper marketing, right? And some people you don't even use that term anymore, but there's been a lot of change. And then, you know, ultimately you were at high V, CMO at high V. Yep. Um, and so retailer, and there's been a lot of change, right? Retail media, a lot of could you just talk a little bit about the evolution that you saw in in shopper and retail and some of the key moments that you can recall through that through that process as well?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. Um, when I I remember starting at Satchi X, and I remember sitting in the booth, uh, not the booths, a cubicle and uh kind of getting a bit of a lesson on retail. And like a, you know, um Blake Pointer, shout out to Blake, was giving a um was drawing like a a PDQ and an NCAP and all of these things that I hadn't had exposure to in the previous jobs that I had had been in. And I just remember thinking, I I feel like he's speaking Spanish to me, right? Right. Like it was not a language I felt I felt comfortable with. But what was interesting was that the the evolution of what was a tactic when I started, right, which might have been a um print ad or a uh live radio remote, uh changed to, you know, a thousand different things over the course of the the 20 years that I was there. And now I think what you see is commerce is at the center of the language set that I would call most closely linked to what you know used to be known as shopper marketing. Um, and what and what I think was always true, and I said this, you know, so many times at Satchi, is meeting shoppers or consumers where they are in the moments there they want to purchase and the tr the moment the the trigger that that happens, the emotional connection that happens when they want to purchase and finding the right tactics to take them from wanting to think about this product to buying the product, that never changed, right? It never changed. And so that it's just the tactics that changed. So if you kept those things at the core and you still can today, really what you're doing is just putting the shopper or the consumer at the top of mind and then delivering what is best for them to make that decision. Um, and that always stayed that that was the the constant.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think you know, now everything is so fragmented. It is, right? You know, where you you, you know, earlier on you had fewer channels.
SPEAKER_02Yep.
SPEAKER_00Now it's so many channels always on all the time, you know, always trying to figure out how do you influence that behavior, how do you convert all that.
SPEAKER_01Well, and and the ages, the influence of of who is making the purchase decision has changed radically. So channels have changed. You know, I have a 14 and a 16-year-old at home, um, uh Frankie and Truman uh had to had to make sure I I said both their names. Uh the they are constantly telling me, buy this, purchase this. I don't remember ever telling my mom to buy something. Like this is Gen X, classic Gen X. Like we got what we got.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we're going up and down the aisle, and maybe we can get a box of cereal.
SPEAKER_01Maybe we can get a box of cereal. Um with the toy in it. That's right. That's right. But I mean, I will now hand my daughter my phone for her to add, you know, something to my Walmart cart or, you know, my Target cart. And yes, I'm gonna go back and review it, but she is influencing that purchase decision in a completely different way through all of the tactics. So when you think about purchaser and who is being influenced and the channels that are influenced them, it is it is absolutely fragmented. It is a whole new world.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, I'm glad you brought up the kids. You know, one of the things that I think you know I personally admire about you, and I know so many other um other uh in in organizations that you've led, especially you know, women that you you've led, is that CEO mom role that you've you've played, you know, the ability to be there as a you know, very credible leader in an organization, be the face of an organization, but also be able to, you know, be a be a mom. And and you know, look, the world and the work that we have done, we've all had to make sacrifices and probably ways that we like to do a lot differently. So there's no doubt about that. But I do I do know that a lot of people have, you know, a lot of women have looked to you as that, you know, as that example of you know what could be, right? And you know, it's probably not always what you think it could be, but you know, in in their in their eyes, well, you know, amazing leader has it, has it all put together, at least on the at least on the surface of it, it would seem, right? Talk a little bit about your your you know, being that CEO, being being that working mom that's putting in a lot of hours, trying to balance the family stuff, and and and you know, what are some of the real things that you try to do to balance both sides of the equation?
Leaving Saatchi X & Choosing The Next Chapter
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Um I I love that this is something that you're bringing up because it's so important to me. Uh, it truly is. And um, you know, my kids, they're awesome and they're uh, you know, they're teenagers, and that is a different stage of life. And I think that's where um as moms and as and I would I would say for anybody, you know, we look at our careers as kind of this linear path. And it really is all dependent on the life stage that you're in as well. Like that is a percent. It is, and that is something I don't think we talk enough about. And so that's that is one of the things that I'm really focused on right now when I mentor or coach people is understanding what life stage they're in. But for me, you know, when I stepped into that CEO role, I my kids were four and six. And and my decision stage, and and might have been a little bit younger. Um, you know, the the dates are always fuzzy, especially the further away you get from them. But my decisioning with that was also like knowing that I was going to need to travel more, knowing that I was gonna have a lot of pressure. And then, so how did I show up? And so I I had Very clear boundaries, you know, and if you're a person that's talked to me over the last 10 years, you've probably heard this around my travel. I I tried not to travel more than two nights, yeah, uh in a row, which meant I usually took a really early flight out and got home really late. But, you know, putting my kids to bed, getting them off to school in the morning was really critical to me. And so in those years, you know, BB, I would walk them to school.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Now that typically meant I was probably working for a couple hours before we did that. Uh, and then I would work after I put them to bed at night. Um, but I really tried to be present for them in the moments where I knew it mattered to them the most. And I I wasn't always there all the time.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_01Um, same with, you know, my husband, who, you know, you got to work hard to also, you know, spend time with your spouse and agree. You know, sit across the table and and have conversations while they're going through whatever they're going through as well. But I really tried to make clear boundaries, stick to those boundaries and um also made sure I was putting time towards myself, uh, whether that was exercise, whether that was, you know, going for a walk, like, you know, going on those quarterly retreats so that I could fill my cup up uh and be there for others.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think it's just for for me, for well, or for you, I would say, like, and I and I and I have a lot of respect for a lot of moms that are working, especially in this industry and a lot, but you have to show up for so many people. And again, going back to you being an Ingram too, and you want to help, right? You want to help your husband, you want to help your kids. Right. It's important to have a relationship. You you're you know, leading a business, you want to help the people, it does feel very draining.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It does feel very draining. And I, you know, I think it's not always understood or thought about, but you've got to just be there for every single, every single person. It, you know, it it's it's tough.
SPEAKER_01It can be draining. And and I, you know, I'm an early riser and I my time in the mornings, you know, and and when I say early, you know, that could be 4 30 to to six o'clock, was really my time alone, right? No one's up in the house. There's no no uh nobody I have to help at that time. And so that was really my recharge time. But like let me be clear, and I think, you know, um looking like I had it all together, I mean my house at any given moment was, you know, not uh entertained. It was not easy for me to entertain in those moments. And and I was okay with that. And my mother-in-law, who I adore, you know, she told me a long time ago, I was always worried about the laundry. I was always worried about, you know, my kitchen being clean. And she said, and I just wish I would have spent more time with my kids. Um, and she told me that early on um when I uh my kids were born. And I remember, you know, taking that to heart. And when I would look at a laundry basket and, you know, or go outside and play with my kids, you know, I'd always choose going outside and and play with my kids. Um, so you know, boundaries are important.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um, you know, speaking of taking care of yourself, you've been on quite a journey personally over the last year, a year or so, yeah, maybe a year and a few months. You know, and I know a lot about you know the journey that you've been on, and you feel free to share what you feel comfortable with sharing, but like it you you've had to focus on yourself, like then you know, um during that period of time. Can you just talk a little bit about you know what you've what you've what you've had going on in, you know, in in your life and around yourself over the last year?
Shopper To Commerce: The Industry’s Evolution
SPEAKER_01Yeah, happy to. Um you know, sometimes the uh Oprah recently said sometimes the universe will whisper at you and when you don't listen, yeah, it'll get louder and eventually have to yell at you. And I feel like 2025 was kind of the year the universe yelled at me a bit to take better care of myself. So I was diagnosed with um both breast cancer and skin cancer in late 2024. Wow. Um, and uh I'll I'll I'll give you the short version, which is I had not gone to my regularly scheduled checkups. Now, um, many reasons for that, juggling a lot of things, scheduling challenges, etc. But ultimately, when I did take care of those things, um, it revealed both of both the breast cancer and the skin cancer. And so in 2025, I had a mastectomy reconstruction, uh, had a small surgery to take care of a um a skin cancer spot. Um, and then in the process of recovering from those things, uh ended up having some um neck pain that led to uh a spinal surgery. So uh 2025 was definitely the year of um meeting all my deductibles and all my out of pockets and uh uh putting my health first. And and I say that, BB, um, a little bit tongue-in-cheek because this is one of the things for me that as I look back on what I wasn't doing over the that period of time, high stress, you know, all those pieces was you do have to make sure that you are taking care of yourself. Because if you aren't, you know, it may put you in a place where you can't recover from something like that as quickly. And I had really the best of a worst-case scenario, which is I didn't need to have chemo, I didn't need to have radiation. I found a great um breast center in New Orleans that um was able to do both my mastectomy and my reconstruction at the same time. Um, but you know, it was an incredibly challenging time for my family for me. Uh, I had to slow down, I had to spend a lot of time reflecting on, you know, what does this mean for me? Uh, how would I have taken care of myself better and differently? And again, it goes back to that life stage. You've got to make sure that you are still taking care of yourself, especially when you're in those big jobs. Um, and you've got that much stress.
SPEAKER_00And I trust everything is good with you today.
SPEAKER_01Everything is good with me. Yeah. I am cancer free and um my I am uh recovering from my spinal surgery. So thank you.
SPEAKER_00Awesome.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Awesome.
SPEAKER_00So, you know, as we kind of get near the wrap up here, you know, just you know, thinking about, you know, everything we've we've talked about. And, you know, what what's next for Jess? You know, what do you see for yourself as we kind of get in here, get into 2026?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Uh, well, uh a couple things. I my time at High Bee was fairly um short-lived. Uh, you know, there were a few factors with that. Uh really just wasn't a good fit. And um, I also think, you know, whether I'm in my fourth quarter or my quarter quarter.
SPEAKER_00I said I am. I can't speak for you.
Gen Z Influence And Fragmented Channels
SPEAKER_01I don't know what quarter I'm in. Maybe third and a half. I don't know. Uh, I I knew that I wanted to make sure that, especially with my kids at the ages that they are, that I had the appropriate amount of time um to spend with them, which which ultimately led to my health diagnosis, uh, which I again view as incredibly positive. And so um right now I am doing some executive coaching and some fractional uh consulting. I am uh spending a lot of time with my kids, um, having great conversations at 14 and 16, and uh really getting to um put a different lens on how I spend my time. Um I do miss leading, you know, people and and bigger groups of people. Uh, I miss uh being a part of, I'll call it more um complex client situations. I I've got some great clients that I'm working with right now, but it's it's different inside of an organization. And so that's what I'm doing right now. Um, and the consulting side of it is a lot of fun. It's a very different um uh, you know, type of work. I'm I'm getting to work with Erin Campbell again, and and she's amazing. And then the coaching side of it, uh, and you can bet the Enneagram shows up in coaching.
SPEAKER_02Makes so much sense.
SPEAKER_01Um, is is it's a lot of fun and it's very energizing as as well. But my days look very different than they did for for the first 30 years of my career.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. I think you were on a dead run. Yeah, I was able to uh downshift, yes, you know, downshift a little bit. Which uh, you know, you and I have talked about that as well to to like the differences are running so hard for so fast, and then all of a sudden things normalize, we'll call it, and then it's like, whoa, this feels very off-putting.
SPEAKER_01Right, right. And it's I think you're also, you know, when you're working in incredibly fast-paced environments, you might also not be taking the time to slow down, yeah. Think. Um, and so that's been really fun to be able to do in different ways now. Uh and and you know, it's it's hard not being a part of that environment. And it's also has, you know, deep rewards in in different ways.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. So you've had an amazing career. You've obviously, you know, have a lot of learning, have created a lot of wisdom over uh your career so far. You know, if people who are listening and you know, whether they're senior leaders themselves or aspiring to be senior leaders, what would be some takeaways that you'd want them to think about as they are in their career or growing their careers?
CEO And Mom: Boundaries That Work
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I I think, you know, um, and BB, I'll ask you a question on the tail end of this. Um, I think going back to what you said around, you know, how you create space that allows people to show up um in their best possible self. And I think that as leaders, you know, asking yourself, am I doing that with my manager and my leader? Am I showing up um the way I want to show up in that environment? And am I letting my team members show up in the ways that they should show up? And I would just encourage you to ask yourself that question. You know, we we put on a lot of hats when we're in um these different spaces. And, you know, when I was sitting and talking to my manager, I might not be letting them know all the things that are on my mind. Maybe I could have shared a little bit more of maybe a little of the burnout I was I was sensing or feeling. Um, you know, and I'm always going to reflect back and think, yeah, I could have done this a little bit better, I could have done that a little bit better. But how do you make sure that you're showing up in those ways to your manager and leader and creating the environment for your people to show up that way? Again, we we operate in businesses. Um, we have to, you know, deliver outputs, but giving people the space to show up as their best possible selves, I think um, I would just encourage people to continue to do that, especially now more than ever, right? People are freaked out about what AI means, um, worried about it, um, trying to probably show up a bit more performatively when um, again, I think the humanity is going to be more important than ever.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. I also think if I would piggyback onto that a little bit, I would add grace, yeah, giving people grace. I think sometimes even senior leaders, you know, giving them grace. Because I think there's, well, they're, you know, they're SVP, they're an EVP, they're a CEO, right? And but they're still human beings.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they are.
SPEAKER_00And they're not always you want them to make the right decisions every single time. They're not going to make the right decisions every single time. Yeah. There's always an opportunity that they could have done it a little bit differently. Now, you may not necessarily have the relationship to be able to have that discussion about them of what they could do differently, but like, and grace does run out after a certain point, right? That becomes a competence, you know, but uh could or could show up as a but I think giving people grace, I think is you know, maybe another area. Um because like if I have somebody that's working for me and they make a mistake, I'm all right, man, I get it. Let's let's work on that, right? And so um, and then I think also, you know, as you look to people above you, giving them, you know, giving them the the grace as well.
SPEAKER_01Well, and I think, you know, the it's it, there's um you can, you know, you and I've always talked about this, it's it's an and not an or. It always is, right? So you can give people grace and hold them accountable, right? Like it, it's for for what they need to to to do, but you can also know that there are times when it may not it may not be um what it previously was, or you know, there's just this, there's nuance to it, yeah. You know, and I think oftentimes we try to put it in a perfect package, right? And it it might not necessarily, it doesn't show up that way.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So I I I do want to ask you um a question. Um, and I've I don't I've not asked you this question. So from when you saw me start as a in the role um at Satchy X to when you saw me grieve, what do you think the biggest transformation was for me? And I'm I'm I'm gonna ask you this in relative in relativity to you. And how did that shape where you um pushed yourself as a leader?
SPEAKER_00Right. Yeah, I would say like I would say confidence was a big piece of it, right? And as you got more comfortable in a role and you were got more opportunities to to be out there, you can you continue to gain because confidence is so important. You could have all the skills in the world, but if you're not confident, it you do not come off in the way that you know you want people to see. I think you did an amazing job trying to balance message with empathy um as we had to navigate a lot of difficult things. And you were always able to have the the tough conversations, right? And you were always able to do have those tough conversations in a very respectful way, at least from what I was exposed to. The transparency was huge. Um, the transparency, the humanity, um, and was really, really, really helpful, I think, and and definitely helped you show um extremely strong. And again, a lot of these things you just need reps, right? You need practice. And that's why I say, like, you know, give people grace, especially, you know, obviously like early on, okay, well, they'll figure it out. Yeah. And and I think you continue to to evolve to this leader that I think everybody, you know, look to as, okay, that's you know, I'll say best in class, right? That's that's the type of leader that we feel confident in, that we know has our back, as well as able to represent us amongst bigger conversations with with you know, bigger, more senior, you know, leaders and in in the in the group or or even with clients. And you you always had that confidence that if if Jess was involved, that the outcome had a high likelihood of success as well. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Thank you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, of course.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
Self Care, Health Shocks & Recovery
SPEAKER_00Um, all right. We we're at the point where we need to wrap it up, but before we wrap, we're gonna do, we're gonna play bold vibes.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00All right. So you you be bold. Yeah, you need to be bold, right? And so we're gonna, I'm gonna throw out some statements. Okay. All right. And these are these are not gonna be the typical bold vibes. This is gonna be more leadership and and get your thoughts um type of vibes. But you tell me you agree, disagree, anything you want to nuance, but you know, really should come straight from from the gut. So um, no overthinking. Okay, all right, all right. Okay, that's a that's a tough one. Okay, um, all right. So you ready?
SPEAKER_01I think so.
SPEAKER_00All right. First, first, first question or first statement. Most people wait too long that leave roles that no longer fit them. Agree, disagree. Agree. Agree. Senior leadership roles often reward self-sacrifice more than sustainability.
SPEAKER_01Um, I think that's that's uh a nuance. I I would not give that a straight agree or disagree. I give that a um, I think it depends on the company you work for, and I think it's also changing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Being the person everyone relies on can slowly turn into a liability.
SPEAKER_01Agree. We would just cover that.
SPEAKER_00Yes, exactly. Not all meaningful impact happens at the highest level of scale.
SPEAKER_01Uh absolutely agree.
SPEAKER_00Pressuring leadership is a choice, not a requirement.
SPEAKER_01Uh I I think this is worded in a way where I should say agree. I think it depends on who you are. I mean, you you know, we can all put a lot of pressure on ourselves. Yes, you know, and I think depending on the role, it's real easy to to hype the pressure.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. And the last one here, you can be deeply committed to your work and still choose yourself without betraying your ambition.
SPEAKER_01Agree. You got to work really hard to do it, but I agree, you can do it.
SPEAKER_00Awesome. Well, well done. Well done with that. So all right, we got to wrap this bad boy up. So, all right, party people, that's a wrap on this uh this edition of Retail Media Vibes. Huge thanks to Jess for being on the show today.
SPEAKER_01Thank you for having me, BB. This has been a blast. How was it? It's been fun, it's been fun.
SPEAKER_00Would you come back?
SPEAKER_01I would come back, and I think I would wear my purple shirt when I come back so I can fit into the background.
SPEAKER_00I know maybe I just need to do t-shirts and maybe you should wear t-shirts and hoodies.
SPEAKER_01Okay, that's a good idea. Okay.
SPEAKER_00So is there anything you want to plug or shout out before uh before we wrap it up today?
SPEAKER_01No, I mean, as I said, I'm I'm uh I'm doing some executive coaching and uh I love that side of it.
SPEAKER_00Um How can people find you?
SPEAKER_01LinkedIn is the best way to buy me. Uh I know it's shocking, uh weird channel, but uh that's that's the best way uh to reach me. But I'm always up for just a coffee or uh a chat um casually as well.
SPEAKER_00Awesome. Great. All right. Well, if you enjoyed this show, make sure you like and subscribe and share it with uh others that may like this podcast as well. If you have any comments or suggestions for the show, go ahead and send that to retailmedia vibes at gmail.com. So with that, thank you so much for tuning in. And as always, I'll do better next time. BB out.