Extra Vibes: Exploring Shopper Psychology

The retail media landscape is shifting at a breakneck pace, leaving many brands chasing every shiny algorithmic object while ignoring the actual infrastructure underneath. Speed is often mistaken for progress, but moving fast without a grounded strategy simply accelerates your mistakes. In this special 20th episode milestone, host Brandon Viveiros sits down for a comprehensive recap of recent powerhouse discussions to unpack how the intersection of e-commerce, automated tech, and consumer psychology impacts real business outcomes.

We sit down to revisit tactical insights from industry leaders including Jessica Hendrix, Amanda Danish-Wineland, Blake Taylor, and Lindsey Hamm, alongside a live panel recorded at Heroes Coffee. The deep dive covers the mechanics of agentic commerce, the technical realities of the digital shelf, and how back-end data cleanliness directly impacts your visibility. We break down the functional differences between alternative optimization strategies like AEO and GEO, moving past generic search parameters to understand how automated systems evaluate product attributes. Brandon Viveiros also shares a rare look behind his own operational philosophy, revealing the specific framework of balancing the business, the work, and the people.

The unglamorous reality of the modern commerce ecosystem is that no amount of advanced tech will save a brand with messy data assets or fractured professional relationships. True market survival requires navigating a saturated paid-placement market while building internal team agility from the ground up. Viewers will walk away with a tactical blueprint for optimizing content quality scores, a clear understanding of why micro frictions protect brand loyalty, and a framework for preparing the next generation of marketing talent to be functional on day one.

If you care about commercial scale, organizational leadership, and algorithmic optimization, you’ll get a lot from this rerun. Be sure to subscribe to the channel and share this breakdown with your team. We want to hear from you in the comments below: As automation scales across your digital shelf, what is the biggest human element you refuse to delegate to a machine?

Transcript

Why This Recap Matters

SPEAKER_09 0:07

What's up, party people? BV here, and welcome to another episode of Retail Media Vibes, a doing business in Bentonville podcast. We are recording at Podcast Video Studios here in Rogers, Arkansas. Today is going to be a special recap episode, and we're going to go back through a recent block of podcast episodes, and I'm going to pull out some of my favorite moments. And, you know, some of the things that stood out to me as I went back through these conversations is yeah, we talked a lot about retail media. We talked a lot about AI, e-commerce, shopper behavior, but you know, really people were still the key theme to all of those discussions. We talked about how people lead. We talked about how shoppers make decisions. We talked about how we use AI in a very human-focused way. Um, and then we talked about like what is what is the next generation of marketers and what their experience is going to be as they break into the the workforce and what that looks like. So we're going to revisit conversations with Jessica Hendricks, with Amanda Weineland, or Amanda Danish, as I uh typically call her, uh Blake Taylor, and then we're gonna do the flip the script episode where Lindsay interviewed me and got some of the uh fun moments out of out of my little brain. And we're gonna wrap it up with the retail media vibes live that we did at Heroes Coffee, where we talk about what it's like for uh students that are entering to the work into the workforce in this age of AI. So, with that, let's get into it. So

Leadership That Slows Down To Win

SPEAKER_09 1:49

let's start with the episode where I had an amazing opportunity to talk to uh Jessica Hendricks. And that one was a very personal conversation for me because Jess is not just a great leader and and uh marketer in her own right, but she is someone who I have looked to and has helped me shape how I think about leadership, relationships, and how you bring people along through change. So the clip that I pulled from the conversation gets into something that I think matters more than ever in this industry. So we are moving fast, AI is moving fast, retail media is moving fast, but leadership, it still requires trust, clarity, and the discipline to slow down just enough to actually lead really well. So with that, here's Jess.

SPEAKER_06 2:46

So I I mean, uh I will say that whatever job that I have held, that would include everything from waiting tables to working in a retail store. I worked at a cart in a mall, like a little, you know, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I worked in the cart. I sold phones out of a cart in the mall. Um to uh working within marketing organizations where you've got to work with an agency or you're working with other partners to deliver on your vision or your goals. You know, again, deliver on what you're trying to get out the door. And and each of the the roles that I was in before kind of prepared me for that.

SPEAKER_09 3:24

I personally hate business cliches, but you know, one that has I and I've resisted them, you know, to a certain extent. And like, but relationships really do matter. Okay. And so, you know, whether that relationship those relationships are with the people that you rely on on your day, on the day-to-day, on the day-to-day business team that you're working with, and and because a lot of times those relationships have to be based on trust, right? We trust that everybody's gonna do what they're what they're gonna do. But those relationships when you're talking externally, right, getting on common ground, I I love that because you know, that also reminded me of, you know, we were talking about the military before, but you know, I was uh I was an instructor in the Air Force. And, you know, one of the things that I tried to instill with an airmen were that that common ground. Like we all have a mission. We all came from a lot of different places, we all, we all were crazy enough to raise our hand and say we were gonna do this. And so, you know, finding that common ground. So I think those are really great, great parts to, you know, building those, building, you know, your leadership foundation, it sounds like.

SPEAKER_06 4:24

Yeah. And you've got to, you know, you've got to set a vision that is, you know, stretches people, but you've also that vision has to also be based on what you know about the teams that you're leading, right? Because you've got to be able to set something that feels like a stretch, but also feels achievable, you know. And we always talked about big, hairy, audacious goals, yes, the B Hag.

SPEAKER_02 4:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 4:49

There were big goals that we put out there, but it gave all of us something to look toward. Um, but knowing the what the individuals also wanted and needed was part of setting that bigger collective goal. And it was about common ground. And it was also about, you know, the goals that our clients had. So uh it's all a part of it.

SPEAKER_09 5:10

One of the things I find to be difficult personally is like, how do you set a vision when everything is so dynamic, right? It's almost like so hard to even set goals, right? Because you know you set a goal today, and next week that goal could be totally different or or something has changed to really modify that. But even setting a vision abroad, because a vision should last at least a certain amount, hopefully a year at least, right? And so how do you how do you think about setting a vision in a world where like retail media, where things are continually changing, obviously AI is changing things, like there's so much change that happens. How do you how do you how do you think about set setting that vision and creating that vision?

SPEAKER_06 5:53

Yeah, so I don't know when it happened in my career at Satch X. You probably know what I'm about to say, but at some point I I landed on a framework that's you know, the business, the work, and the people, people being the foundation of all of those things. And um, you know, we called it the BWP, probably some people call it the three Ps, you know, uh property.

SPEAKER_09 6:16

Price, price, and price.

SPEAKER_06 6:18

But but I I really tried to keep it simplified to those three areas. Okay, what's a business goal that we can achieve? And that might be a revenue goal, that might be a uh a margin uh uh objective. What's the work uh goal and that might look like? What awards do we want to win? You know, what are those pieces? And then on the people side of it, what do we want our people to achieve, or what do we want our people to um look toward? And and that could be a variety of things. But what I'll I'll say is this I what I learned over my time in that rule was less is more and slow is fast. And so choosing simple but clear goals and taking the time to really think about what is truly possible and how we're going to achieve that so that we can go fast in the moments when we need to go fast. And even though we have a different world today with AI, to your point, and all of the pressures, I actually think going slow is more important than ever because the reality is the acceleration of what you're gonna do as you move forward from those goals is gonna feel faster than ever to the people around you. So you gotta make sure you're spending the time crafting what that goal is. And again, I think it's keeping it simple. Um, don't make it complicated, go back to it over and over and over again. Don't get too distracted by what your competitors are doing. Like you have to know what your competitors are doing. But if you are, if you are changing your objectives based on what everyone else is doing, it it's it's probably not going to be the right thing for you because it's not rooted in your core values and objectives.

SPEAKER_09 8:06

So Jess grounded us in leadership, relationships, and the discipline of slowing down in a fast moving business. So

Why Shoppers Crave Control

SPEAKER_09 8:14

Amanda Weineland or Amanda Danish, as I still call her, she takes on that human lens and applies it directly to shopper behavior. We talked about AI, shopper psychology, and agentic commerce. But what I loved about this conversation is that she didn't chase this shiny object that we typically talk about that really uh impacts our industry on an hour by hour basis, quite frankly. And she brought it back to how people actually make decisions, which is still core to shopper marketing and retail and retail media and why control matters and why removing every bit of friction from shopping may not be the win that people think it is. So, with that, here's my friend Danish with an AI. You know, where do you see shoppers where they really want control, right? Because there's this whole idea like the AI will do the shopping for you, right? Without with very little human interaction. And then there's the other part of it where you're using AI to help make the decision, which kind of related to the you know, the last thing we were just talking about. So, you know, what where where do shoppers really want that control? How do they how do you think they are perceiving that?

SPEAKER_05 9:35

So I think at its core, shoppers need all the control.

SPEAKER_09 9:41

Right.

SPEAKER_05 9:42

Okay. Right. It's just how that comes to life. So um the idea of having an agent do things on your behalf. I need to feel like I've controlled as much as I possibly can up until that moment that they are going to go and do something for me.

SPEAKER_02 10:02

Right.

SPEAKER_05 10:02

And so people are going to feel a lot more comfortable with an agent repeating a decision they've already made. So glorified subscription service.

SPEAKER_09 10:11

Yeah, yeah. We were talking about talking about that because it's it's interesting because in order to, in order to get something when it runs out, there has to be still some sort of stimulus, right? So if you have something in your fridge and you're running out of milk, the fridge has to either you have to communicate to the to the agent in order to get that replenished, or there has to be some sort of sensor that detects that, which you know, most people are not gonna have a smart fridge that that does that. Um, probably less than 1% of the total households would have that. So I mean, what are you doing? Are you doing another dash button on the refrigerator and when the milk goes out, you press the button? Well, that's again, that's subscription, right? So that's I don't know if that's really solving a problem, right?

SPEAKER_05 10:59

Yeah, it absolutely is not solving the problem. Um, and which is why you don't see those buttons anymore. Right. Right? Um, the what what was wrong about that concept was the idea of removing every bit of friction possible from a shopping trip. Some friction is good, right? Some friction is necessary.

SPEAKER_09 11:24

Okay, all right.

SPEAKER_05 11:24

I mean, absolutely necessary. I feel very strongly about this.

SPEAKER_09 11:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 11:28

Um, a little bit of friction. I think I refer to it as you know, micro friction in my article. There are, it signals something, it signals effort, it signals investment, and it signals this idea of um, you get me. Right, you understand me because you're you're asking me to invest in an area that I care about. So if you know that I, as an agent, that I am on a discovery shopping trip. And so me as an individual, when I'm on a discovery mission, I'm a researcher, right? I want to know specs. I want to know all the facts about it. I want to know all the things, the data points. Whereas someone else, when they're in discovery mode, might be more about what is the social impact of this, what is the uh corporate responsibility statements behind the company that makes this, or someone else might be really checking on the social aspect of it in terms of what are other people saying?

SPEAKER_09 12:40

What are people like semantics or sentiment? Yeah, sentiment.

SPEAKER_05 12:44

Exactly. So it uh it varies by person, even when you're in a certain mode.

SPEAKER_02 12:48

Right.

SPEAKER_05 12:49

So if I have an agent that knows me and can understand the signals that I'm giving it when I'm asking certain questions, then they're checking on the mission.

SPEAKER_02 13:02

Right.

SPEAKER_05 13:03

Right? What is my actual mission? And then it's about the context of that mission. So am I looking for novelty? Am I looking for confidence? Am I completing a ritual? Right. So finding a gift. Uh, one of my best friends has a birthday coming up. And if I'm looking for a gift for her, I'm in a much different headspace than when I'm trying to replenish my dishwasher detergent.

SPEAKER_09 13:31

Right.

SPEAKER_05 13:32

And I need something different, need a different response. And you get the sense of um the effort that is being put in by the agent as well as the effort being put in by me. And it it's bringing that element of humanity into the transaction. And that builds confidence in me. Right. That makes me feel like you're actually understanding. And like in your milk example, humans love to feel unique. And um, we are one of a kind. I am perfectly unique, just like everybody else, right? Um, and with milk replenishment, I don't want my fridge to go and just reorder the exact same milk I had last time. I want the option.

SPEAKER_09 14:25

You want to try new milk?

SPEAKER_05 14:26

I might want to try new milk this time. You don't know me.

SPEAKER_09 14:29

Right.

SPEAKER_05 14:29

Right?

SPEAKER_09 14:30

Yeah. Or maybe some of this changed with your diet. Maybe now you've discovered your lactose intolerant or yeah.

SPEAKER_05 14:35

And so even though I personally might buy the exact same, and I do the exact same fat-free fair life milk, every single time I go to the store, I still want the option to change my mind. Don't tell me what to do.

unknown 14:52

Right.

SPEAKER_09 14:53

I always think that there's this. I mean, you brought up something that's really interesting because there it feels like there are products that you buy consistently that you buy the same brand, but then there are other products that you will buy other flavors or other brands. Like, you know, it's like it's kind of a mix of you know, our shopping list. They're like, I'm gonna get the same same type of sliced cheese every single time, but when it comes to shredded cheese, I'm gonna do fiesta, I'm gonna do, you know, a Kobe Jack mix or what, right? So there's there it's interesting, right? And so you've got now you have these agents that are trying to balance the replenishment with the discovery, right? So help me discover a new flavor of shredded cheese as an example, right? And so it is, it is where does that where does that information come from, right? How does that, how does the AI make the decision on what to recommend versus not, you know, or or um when it when you are asking it uh what to buy?

SPEAKER_05 15:58

Right. So that's that's what I find so interesting. Yeah, yeah, because the retailers and the brands, that's what they want to know is how do I make sure that my product, my retailer, my site is the one being recommended.

SPEAKER_09 16:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 16:15

Right. But as a shopper, they want to know that what is being recommended is right for them. Right. That it's not a push, it's not a sale.

SPEAKER_09 16:26

Right. Yes. And that's when you get into this advertising component that makes it a little bit weird too.

SPEAKER_05 16:33

So from the shopper viewpoint, what I want is um is not automation, but co-creation. I want a conversation. I want to go back and forth a little bit with this agent. So it might say, Hey, I know that you um typically buy uh organic produce and meat. How do you feel about that within your beauty products?

SPEAKER_09 17:04

Right. Yeah. How do you feel about that? Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 17:08

And I'll be like, you know what? Good question. I really don't care. I have other priorities when it comes to my hairstyling products, right? And so it'll say, Great, what are those priorities? And I'll say, you know, yeah, I want something specifically for curly hair. I want something that is um not going to be super expensive. And they'll say, I want to call this out for you. Something you might not have thought of is that a lot of times when something is specific to a hair texture, it costs a little bit more.

SPEAKER_09 17:41

Right.

SPEAKER_05 17:42

You okay with that?

SPEAKER_09 17:43

So it's more like an advisor.

SPEAKER_05 17:44

Exactly. It's advisory because that signals to me that you're doing what's right for me. Uh, rather than saying you have curly hair, great. Here are three different shampoos that you should use for curly hair. I'm like, you don't know whether I have textured hair, whether I have coily hair, whether I have wavy hair, whether you didn't ask me any of those things. You just automatically recommended a product. That tells me you're trying to sell those products to me.

SPEAKER_09 18:14

So Danish's clip is such a good reminder that AI shopping cannot just be about automation. It has to understand confidence, risk, control, and context. Blake's

Cleaning Up The Digital Shelf

SPEAKER_09 18:30

conversation picks up on the practical side. So if AI is changing how people discover, evaluate, and eventually buy products, then the digital shelf, the content quality, product data, and AI readiness become even more important. So in this clip, Blake gets into e-commerce, digital shelf, AI, AEO, GEO, all the different acronyms that we all know and love, and why the fundamentals really still do matter. And that's even when the language around them is continually changing. So with that, here's Blake.

SPEAKER_08 19:08

Yeah, it's incredibly important. And again, when you think about structuring the digital shelf, right, is that more of a responsibility of the brands or the retailer to get that. Um, and it falls on both in some degree, right? Brands are responsible for their products and making sure that they're set up to win. And obviously, uh you said earlier, we're in a capitalist society. Everyone's a little bit greedy and wants to go and make their money.

SPEAKER_02 19:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 19:32

And so brands have a vested interest in making sure their PvPs are set up for success and can win on the digital shelf. Meanwhile, Walmart is maybe less focused on individual brands' success. They're looking at the whole, they're looking at the category, they're looking at this keyword. How do they make it as successful as possible? And getting the right mix of items into the digital shelf. Because you're exactly right. People aren't going to scroll forever to find what they want. They're going to probably give it a couple scrolls if they don't see what they want, if they're not in the right space. Yeah. They're going to research today. They're going to go type in a different keyword, right? In the future, as we continue to move towards uh different methodologies here, there is no necessarily like research, right? There is a process that is going to have more understanding of what you're looking for. It's going to take in more of your preferences and your personalization. It's probably going to have a better, hypothetically, a better yield in the return that it brings back to you.

SPEAKER_09 20:25

Um, so yeah, the digital shelf is here's my here's my observation of the digital shelf today is it feels more cluttered. We've added in more sponsored sponsored placements, whether it's you know, uh a sponsored product or whether it's a search brand amplifier or a sponsored video. And like it just feels like now the shelf, you know, it's there's a there's a concept in store called clean store, clean aisles, sure, clear um in in and action alley, and obviously down the aisle, like much cleaner um experience for the shopper makes it easier for them to make it through the store and hopefully buy more products as they work their way through the store. I feel like we need to go to a clean, clean shelf strategy for e-commerce. But my concern is, you know, how much we're throwing into that that shelf and making it even more friction laden for the shopper to find what they're looking for.

SPEAKER_08 21:26

Yeah. Whereas the uh the ad blocker for sponsored products and all this stuff. Um yeah, it it has become cluttered and and messy in a lot of ways, and and brands are still trying to figure out how to navigate it. Right, right. These items that are typically at the top of these search results because they're some of the best performing items, they're getting suppressed more and more and more. And those same items that had a right to win previously now have to pay to have that right to win. Right. Yeah. And items that are buried further in search grids, uh, the old. The only way to get forward now, oftentimes, is to pay. Um those aren't commensurate, like pay amounts, right? Walmart and other retailers are very smart and savvy and say, hey, just because you want to sponsor here doesn't mean it's a it's a flat fee. Right. Right. You're gonna have to pay more because we're taking a risk putting you that's buried in our search results up into this really premium real estate. So we're gonna have to more or less collect our fee up front a little bit uh to have the risk of putting you up there and degrading our search grid sum. Yeah. Uh and I say degrading, obviously, like it may be a great product and it may actually deserve to be there. And yeah. But according to an algorithm, it's not the best fit for this keyword. And so uh it's taken that risk when you're there. And so it has created a retail media tax uh across the board. Um, the the saturation of paid placements is a little bit out of control, in my opinion. Um, but brands keep doing it and they keep paying it.

SPEAKER_09 22:57

And so well, yeah, I mean, you have no choice, you know, in in a lot of cases, in order to compete. Absolutely. Right. So all right, let's talk a little bit about AI. Right. And so it's funny, we've probably been, you know, talking for 15, 20 minutes, we haven't gotten to AI yet. Um but you know, AI is definitely having a huge impact on on e-commerce. Like, you know, what do you what do you think? If you just think about the holistic approach and practice of e-commerce, what role do you see AI playing in that practice? Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 23:29

I mean, there's a that's probably a a today, a short term tied to answer to each of these. Um I think today you're starting to see um AI in the terms of um research in a lot of ways. Yeah. Um, you see people going to AI, kind of asking questions and kind of helping them figure out what they want to purchase. Hey, what is what is the best skin care for me? What is the best fill in the blank? Yeah. Um, and you see AI starting to get have a better understanding of the user that it's answering the question for, and therefore able to return better products and able to have that conversation along the way instead of trusting that the user will use the right filters along the way. Right. It is able to do a lot of that product research and and give you some better information. So that's where I see it like today, today. Obviously, you see it dabbling in uh agents starting to do search or starting to do purchases for you. Right. Um you see them lean into it and then you see them lean out of it. Yeah, and there is a lot of let's let's try to figure this out, and then maybe it doesn't work as well as it should right now, and so they they quickly kind of backtrack a little bit. Sure. It's gonna go that way. Right. There's no doubt that at some point, like we're going to be offloading a lot of that shopping to assistants that know you and can purchase for you and know your your purchase cycles and how fast your family goes through uh a box of uh you know, whatever it is, a box of whatever it is. Yeah, uh, it's gonna know that and be able to better uh uh support your purchasing habits in in that way. Yep. Um so I think that that's kind of the the shortish to long term. The long, long term is is there even like shopping sites in the future or is there agentic workflows? Is there just an agentic platform that you're kind of managing this system that is going to a, I don't know, almost like a warehouse environment versus a like true search grid, right? We talked about the digital shelf being this kind of uh the the the digital impression of the physical store, right? As we move into this um agentic world, is that site even necessarily needed anymore? Is that front-facing digital store environment even really a a need state? Yeah. So that'll be interesting to see how that evolves and as traffic maybe declines in those places, uh how that works. But obviously you've got the the retailers that are gonna be defensive of that. They want people on their site. They try to get money from that, they get the the benefits of that. Um so it'll be interesting to see how the the Amazons and the Walmarts of the world partner with the open AIs, the Aetropics, the Google Geminis of the world to uh not pull traffic away from them. Um so I don't know. Yeah, i i it it's a very like it's a gray area still.

SPEAKER_09 26:12

What about as a supplier brand, right? How how are you as a supplier brand, how are you using AI in the com in the e-commerce sense? Like what are the opportunities there? What do you see from that standpoint?

SPEAKER_08 26:25

Yeah, I think um data, uh data aggregation and and kind of the the synthesization of data uh it becomes a lot easier with an AI system. Uh the challenge there is data cleanliness. And the data you get from Walmart doesn't always match up to the day that you have at Amazon and the day that you have at Kroger and fill in the blank. And everyone has their own way of structuring it. And so the ability to maybe have an AI system clean that for you and put it into legible formats and digestible formats will will be crucial. And I think one way that a lot of brands will lean into AI tricity.

SPEAKER_09 27:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 27:01

Um, I think you got the content creation side. I mean, yeah. A shameless plug, a little bit for for them to add to it. Right. Um that's kind of the bet that we're we're placing on the market is eventually the the need to create content at scale, the need to create personalized content. As um before retailer sites maybe go entirely away, they're gonna continue to evolve. And maybe the content that I see on a PDP is different than the content you would see on a PDP. And the ability to create that at scale um or have tools that can maybe even build it in the moment. Like I don't know. That seems crazy. Uh that that maybe that that would exist and you could put legal barriers around it. Um, but it can build content in the moment that is tailored to you and to me and to other shoppers. Um, so I think that there is a lot of ways that you can start to think about content creation from an AI standpoint. Is it totally there yet? Not necessarily, right? We we feel that in a lot of ways.

SPEAKER_09 27:53

And some of the things that we're doing. What do you mean? I just I could just put it whatever I want into Chad to be and it's gonna give me a description, right? Right. It's gonna be perfect. It's gonna be perfect. Uh so related to that, so let's talk about AEO and GEO, the the the EO twins. Right. They're triplets if you add in S E O, right? So we've got that, right? But you know, can you explain from your perspective, AEO, GEO, and you know, how does that how how would brands really care about that when it comes to e-commerce?

SPEAKER_08 28:23

Depends who you're referencing in terms of uh AEO and GO. It feels like there's still a a little bit of uh a lack of authority on the the subject. There is, correct. Yeah. Um a lot of people have similar perspectives. Like it's not just like the total Wild West and we're all trying to figure this out. Um but there isn't necessarily governing, like this is exactly how we do GEO, this is exactly how we do AEO. At the end of the day, yeah, I think it's it's summed up in a way of AEO is going to be that kind of next step beyond SEO. SEO is getting those couple keywords and making sure that your titles and descriptions have those most impactful keywords in there. AEO is gonna kind of take it to that next step of being very descriptive, and it's going to give you uh the answers to what is the best I don't know, uh, hyaluronic acid face cream for me. Right. Um, and it's gonna start to be able to tie together multiple attributes to understand uh what a product is. And so it's gonna be that next kind of level description. Um, and so this is gonna be a little bit more in that kind of realm of almost keyword stuffing. I don't like to use that word. I don't know if I don't think it's the right way to describe it, but you wanna have rich data behind your items. You want to make sure that all your attributes fields are filled out, not just checking boxes to make your Walmart content quality score good, um, but making sure that every attribute that is applicable to your items that somebody could somehow search to try to find your item uh is filled out. Making sure that your descriptions and key features and and your titles aren't just checking boxes in terms of make sure you have this one keyword in there, make sure you have this one attribute in there. Right. No, it's a richness and it is going to feed an engine that is going to uh be looking for more than just one keyword. Right. Uh GEO is then kind of the authority side. So it's gonna be looking for those claims and those things that that make your product uh unique and kind of stand out in the market and gives it credibility um and builds trust and and lets a uh AI tool or agent have a high level of confidence in this product. Yeah. Um so GEO is gonna be more claims. So the the more that you can get out there and kind of get unique components to your product and unique claims about your product, uh the better. There. Right. And that's gonna help kind of feed um whenever someone starts to look for specific um what we'll say, certifications or specific um qualities of products beyond just maybe like a general attribute.

SPEAKER_09 30:50

So Blake gave us the e-commerce and digital shelf side of the AI conversation.

AI, Friction, And Personal Legacy

SPEAKER_09 30:54

In the next episode, we flipped the camera back on to me, and Lindsay came back to the show, the first person to actually come back and be on the show a second time, back onto retail media vibes and put me in the hot seat. Uh it was fun. Uh it was uh a little uncomfortable at times, but it was uh great to do nonetheless. So in these clips, Lindsay asks me how I feel about AI, uh, the future of the industry and what I'm chasing in this next chapter of my career. So this one moves from technology and the work into something a little more personal and how AI can unlock capacity, why the challenge still matters, and how much of this industry is still built on relationship, legacy, and human connection. So here's Lindsay turning the tables on me.

SPEAKER_07 31:52

So thinking a little bit about our industry now.

SPEAKER_09 31:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 31:55

Where we've been, where we're headed. Um, AI has emerged as this major player. We know this commerce environment that we live in is changing constantly. How are you feeling about the future of our industry, of the work that we do, how it's gonna change?

SPEAKER_09 32:11

Man, that that is there's a lot to unpack in that because there's so many different aspects. There's aspects that I'm excited about, and there are aspects that I'm fearful about.

SPEAKER_03 32:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 32:22

And, you know, I was when when in November 2022, when Sam Altman announced Chat GPT, I was all on board.

SPEAKER_07 32:35

You didn't.

SPEAKER_09 32:37

From the first I said, you know, literally take my money, literally take my money. Yeah, because it was for me, how I saw saw AI at that point, it was actually an opportunity for me to elongate my career.

SPEAKER_02 32:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 32:51

The things that I really wanted to do, but couldn't do because I didn't have the time, it it freed that up, right? And and so I've always been about we carry too much information in our heads, and we and we have so much in our in our minds. And you know, working in this business, in the business of retail media, media in general, advertising, wherever you fit into the into this industry, it's a lot of pressure, it's a lot of work. And so sometimes the fun things are hard to come by and it's hard to get to because of all the things you have to do. And I really saw AI as an opportunity to potentially unlock some of those things that you you know you really wanted to do. To be honest, this podcast, this podcast is 50% of AI, right?

SPEAKER_07 33:45

It's all your brain. It's just how together.

SPEAKER_09 33:48

Yeah. I've I've created this podcast with AI. I don't know if I would have jumped into trying to create a podcast without AI, to be quite honest. Yeah. It keeps it keeps me organized. It keeps me uh thinking about new ideas and and working through some of the things that you need to do in order to do a podcast. Um it's really kind of opened up a lot of the things for for me. And so that gives me a lot of resolve around what I want to continue to do in my career. But at the same time, as we look at at some of the you know, opportunities uh with technology, with retail media, I am concerned about some of the things that I am currently seeing around you know AI doing too much of the work. You know, I I get it, right? Media efficiency. Everybody wants media efficiency. Yep. Everybody wants to prove out that that dollar that they spent had some sort of return. Right. But man, I don't know if I'm, you know, in if it if there's anybody from Meta listening to this podcast, bless you. But I don't know if I'm just gonna give a stack of money to Meta and say, hey, go spend this the best way you think it will work for my brand. I I I don't know if I'm gonna do that. I don't know if I and I work in AI every day. The whole black box mindset, and yes, it makes it easier for the person who is running the media. I don't know if making it easier is really the right thing to do. Yeah. And so I think this misapplication in some cases of AI can cause us to weaken what we're trying to do from a media standpoint. It's what it can weaken our ability to think strategically or think through how we should approach a problem because it takes away friction.

SPEAKER_07 35:49

Right.

SPEAKER_09 35:50

And I think friction is absolutely a way for us to learn and grow our minds.

SPEAKER_07 35:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 35:58

Right. Because if things are too easy, then what involvement do we have in what we're trying to achieve?

SPEAKER_07 36:08

There has to be the human element to drive the you got the efficiency, but you need the intelligence behind it and the challenge, and the challenge always comes right. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_09 36:17

Yeah. I mean, look, you and I have been through the trenches, right? We've been through some challenging times, like no doubt about that, right?

SPEAKER_07 36:25

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_09 36:26

I've e even outside of our relationships, I've been through some challenging times. Um I don't want to make it sound like only I have challenged.

SPEAKER_07 36:34

I have the challenge.

SPEAKER_09 36:36

But but like those times that were super challenging to me are the times where I probably learned the most.

SPEAKER_02 36:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 36:45

But if it was easy, would I have learned the same lessons? Would I have learned you know, learned what I needed to learn in order to be a better marketer? I don't, I don't know. And so this is this is the thing I am currently debating, right? Whether or not application of AI in all instances is really the right thing, even if it can do what you need it to do. And there's a lot that goes into that as well. But even if it can do what you needed to do, is it really the right thing? Because does that degrade what a human being should be able to do and to develop them and grow them through the challenges? Yeah. Through that friction.

SPEAKER_07 37:30

You need the challenges.

SPEAKER_09 37:31

Yeah. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_07 37:32

Just because we can, should we? If I had to ask you what you're chasing right now, what would you say?

SPEAKER_09 37:39

What am I chasing? I am chasing bringing value to whatever I am involved in, whether it be the organization I work for, whether it be this podcast, whether it be, you know, uh other engagements that I'm involved in. Like for me, you know, what's important to me and what I've learned is I want to feel like I'm bringing value to that engagement. And it's always become a big, a big part of a big part of me that I think um I may not have faced head on.

SPEAKER_07 38:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 38:23

And, you know, just, well, I'm just doing this because I, you know, I like to do it. But I think for me at this at this stage, I'm really thinking about how do I, you know, how do I add value? And then what is and I'm actually not I'm not quite there yet, but I am starting to think about, okay, what is my legacy?

SPEAKER_07 38:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 38:42

What if what am I when I get done with whatever I'm doing, when I look back, what did I really accomplish?

SPEAKER_07 38:52

Right. Is really kind of what I'm just on that yet? Have you got an idea? Is it coming into frame for you yet?

SPEAKER_09 39:00

You know, I think I think for me, you know, I I would say really connecting with human beings, like, you know, really bringing you know, I guess, value to the conversations and the and the relationships, you know, that I that I have. You know, I I had a realization, oh, I guess a couple years ago, now maybe 18 months ago, but all the relationships and and and people that I am close to that are not my family all came through work.

SPEAKER_07 39:29

Yeah. True for a lot of us. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 39:32

And I mean, I grew up as a military brat. I was in the military myself. You know, I traveled around a lot. I'm a, you know, uh a transplant here into the Northwest Arkansas Northwest Arkansas area.

SPEAKER_07 39:42

Right.

SPEAKER_09 39:43

And so like everybody I know is because of work and how much how how important uh you know that those work relationships have been for me. And you know, being able to, you know, work with people and and and support them and work alongside them, how much of that has really been an important, you know, an important part for me.

unknown 40:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 40:04

I think it it's amazing. We're all kind of at two ends of the spectrum right now. And then we see like AI automating everything. And at the same time, I think we're craving more humanity. Yeah. I feel that pull. I think it's sort of the the counterweight to the automation, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_02 40:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 40:19

Um, does the struggle feel worth it right now? Do we feel like the struggle is worth the opportunity?

SPEAKER_09 40:26

Yeah, I I think I mean I do. I I do. I think, you know, um, you know, I value all the relationships with all the people that I that I have. Uh I am so much I am a lot better person because of the people I know and uh people who uh I care about and the people who care about me. Uh and I think you know that is, you know, um that is fulfilling in in a lot in a lot of ways.

SPEAKER_07 40:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 40:55

Um and so yeah, I think, you know, overall I I do.

SPEAKER_07 40:58

Yeah. It's probably 10 years from now, all the things we're talking about will be, you know, r regarding the work and the industry will be irrelevant because we'll have moved on to the next big thing. But the people connection always remains. And I think that's like the one piece that just stays put and ever it's always there. It's solid, it's got a foundation to come.

SPEAKER_09 41:16

Yeah, what's what's interesting for me is you know, reflecting back on my career. Like I've been there for every single one of these big You've seen them all.

SPEAKER_07 41:26

I've seen the metaverse. I've seen them.

SPEAKER_09 41:28

I've seen the internet, yeah. You know, the internet grow.

SPEAKER_07 41:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 41:32

I've seen, you know, and actually I was on the I was on the cusp of mobile technology with Nokia and worked with Nokia. That's right. Cool. And you know, got into you know, got into you know mobile marketing. Yeah. Uh definitely have seen the growth of of social media and what impact that has had, you know, from a society and an advertising perspective. I've, you know, obviously seen the the growth of retail. I've seen you know what the metaverse was supposed to be. Uh and then you know, now it's AI, right? So I I have lived through all of these.

SPEAKER_07 42:08

All the phases.

SPEAKER_09 42:10

All of these phases um that impact our industry so much. And I I feel fortunate to have had that opportunity. I don't have to read about it in a history book. I can I can you loved it.

SPEAKER_07 42:20

I did it. The highs and the lows. Yes.

SPEAKER_09 42:23

The highs and the lows.

SPEAKER_07 42:24

But the people always remain. You know, you may not sell that same Nokia phone anymore, but you probably still know people from that time in your life. Call us right now. Yes.

SPEAKER_09 42:33

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_07 42:34

I love it.

SPEAKER_09 42:35

So that conversation with Lindsay got pretty personal, but it also set up a bigger question underneath a lot of the questions, which are which is what does all of this change mean for people?

Students Entering Work In AI

SPEAKER_09 42:48

And so that was really the heart of the live recording that we did at Heroes Coffee, uh, doing retail media vibes live, where we talked about breaking into the workforce in this age of AI. So many students have so much fear about what the future holds, which they would typically have anyway. But now with AI and all the conversation about replacement of jobs, I really wanted to bring a panel together of people who could have a very robust conversation about really what this looks like and what this has and what impact it really has on the workforce. So the clips from this one cover what that entry-level talent needs to needs right now and how AI is changing a lot of expectations. And then we do a little live panel bold vibes, which is our instant reaction uh segment that we typically do on the future of work, technical skills, college readiness, and whether students today are more prepared than previous generations. So, with that, let's go to the live recording.

SPEAKER_00 43:54

I mean, I think one thing that is unique about the Walton College is With this ecosystem in our backyard, right? We have what 1600 vendors, Walmart, JB Hunt, Tyson, all of these companies that are available and pour into our students. So that filters into the classroom, right? So we are getting them ready by giving them as much as we can, that's actual business context environment, really hands-on, whether it's class projects, um, you know, collaborations again with industry partners, simulations, I don't know, any kind of experiential learning that we can we can do. Yeah, that's you. Um, and that's what we're trying to do. And of course, now um AI is playing a part of that, right? So yeah.

SPEAKER_09 44:37

AI.

SPEAKER_00 44:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 44:38

So Carson, you know, you're getting close to graduating, um, and you're getting ready to go into your first role, your first job. You know, what are what are you thinking about that first that first role for you?

SPEAKER_10 44:54

I think in terms of AI, what that's gonna look like, um, entering the workforce soon, or I guess continuing. Um, well, okay, sorry. Um, I feel like utilizing what I've learned in class, like we've said, like you spent four years um getting all this content. And for me, halfway through is kind of when AI entered. Um, freshman year it became a thing. But then after, like, we didn't really start using it in the classroom until my junior year, senior year. So um, like my generation trying to figure out how we can build on those tools in the workplace, knowing when it's useful, when it's not, and making sure that if I'm asked to utilize it, um I know how, but I also know how to brainstorm on my own. And so navigating how that tool is gonna elevate all of us and kind of bring like a new baseline for um entry-level workers.

SPEAKER_09 45:43

Awesome. Awesome. So, Sarah, you actually you mentioned there are a couple of roles that are opening up, and I'm sure you guys are looking at entry-level talent all the time. What are some of the things you look for with entry-level talent when you're evaluating for a role?

SPEAKER_04 45:57

I think it depends on the role, but of course it depends on the role, but I think um, you know, I don't think any of us are probably looking for AI expertise. Like, I don't know that any of us are experts right now in something that is just so unknown and ever changing. So I think we're looking for like obviously AI readiness.

SPEAKER_09 46:13

Um I like that, actually, I like that term AI readiness.

SPEAKER_04 46:16

Readiness. And I think um, you know, even with AI, you still need to be um have a have a level of curiosity. Like you've still gotta know your craft and you've got to be a student of your business because you're not you're not there to to learn AI. Like you need to, you, you need to be, you need to know what you're doing, right? Because you've still got to have like the context in order to kind of execute our our strategies and our vision. But um I think, yeah, curiosity, I think collaboration, emotional intelligence, intelligence is huge.

SPEAKER_02 46:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:48

Um, you know, just um I think a positive attitude is another one. And and my favorite is just agility. I know that's like an overused word, but I think you've got to be able to bob and weave and and go with all the changes that come with with working um in corporate and working with Walmart.

SPEAKER_09 47:06

Yeah, absolutely. You know, retail, we know we've talked about in our careers about the speed of retail, right? And just what that actually means, and that a lot of it is that ability to adapt and adjust on the fly. I mean, there's so much that happens in a in a in a in a flash, right? So awesome. Um, so Victoria, you know, when somebody's early in their career, you know, with intern, and then they maybe move into a role, what do you typically expect from them in that first 90 days or 100 days that you have them in your in your office?

SPEAKER_03 47:35

Absolutely. I think Sarah hit on some of that already about agility and curiosity. I think um somebody to be very successful within their first 90 days, and I think this applies to any job, not agency only, is really um somebody that's gonna come in, they're gonna ask a lot of questions, they're going to raise their hand for opportunities and really showing their own eagerness to learn. Because we don't expect somebody, especially straight out of college, to know how to navigate the complexities of our specific jobs and our ways of working. So I would say it's that um attitude and openness that is most important.

SPEAKER_09 48:21

Now we're gonna move into the bold vibes part of the podcast. So this is where I'm gonna throw out some things. You you tell me if you agree or disagree, if you want to expand briefly on it, you can. Um, so I'm just gonna go and everybody's gonna get a chance to answer these questions, all right? So, question one AI will reduce entry-level jobs, agree or disagree, Victoria?

SPEAKER_01 48:43

Disagree in client service industries. Disagree, also dependent upon the industry.

SPEAKER_00 48:50

Yeah, I would say disagree, at least I certainly hope so for for their sake.

SPEAKER_10 48:55

Agreed. I I agree with and I disagree. Um, just hoping that maybe with the tools we'll develop more entry-level roles or something, and just a shift in what those look like, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 49:06

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 49:06

That's the hope. All right, next question. The most valuable skill in five years will be technical. Agree or disagree, Carson.

SPEAKER_10 49:15

Let's disagree. I think as we've talked about this whole time, brainstorming, creativity, communication, all of those things are gonna become even more crucial because we all have that new tool that we're utilizing and becoming pros at at some point.

SPEAKER_09 49:29

Yep. Ann?

SPEAKER_00 49:30

Yeah, I would agree with Carson on that. I think we're gonna, I I think the more that we get used to AI and automation, we're gonna crave some human things, human connection, human touch, the the human judgment. So yeah, I agree with you. Sarah?

SPEAKER_04 49:47

Disagree. Human capital. That's our luxury. That is the luxury good, that's the currency.

SPEAKER_08 49:52

Victoria?

SPEAKER_03 49:54

I agree somewhat. Okay, but I think it's different, not necessarily technical in the way that we're talking about it. Um, I so where my head goes to that question is more thinking about we're gonna need more of those technical skill sets like electricians, plumbers, etc.

SPEAKER_09 50:13

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 50:14

That's true.

SPEAKER_09 50:14

Agree. All right. Sorry, Ann, but on this one, but college is keeping up with AI. Agree or disagree. I'll start with Sarah first.

unknown 50:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 50:26

And just to plug, um Walton College of Business, I'm also an executive MBA grad. And like, cannot say a good thing, enough good things about Walton College. I think you all are the exception and the outlier to this. I think universities are about to, they are one of the I think industries that is probably being disrupted by AI, and they are probably having to quickly come out with a point of view, how they adapt their learning, how they just how they do business and how they recruit. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:56

Ann. I mean, I I again I'm talking about it every day, all day at work. So I think Walton College is a little different. She talked about taking a course. I mean, we've got two gentlemen in particular that are mind-blowing in terms of the amount of knowledge that they have. We have the AI task force, again, the exchange. We're doing all these different things because we don't want to be left behind. Like we're trying really hard to make sure our students are gonna be day one ready. That's our motto. They got to be day one ready. And that's, you know, again, I think AI ready, I love how you say that, just AI readiness. It doesn't mean I mean it's changing every day, like you mentioned. When Brandon comes and speaks to my class, he puts a thing up that says disclaimer by the end of this, by the end of this an hour talk, like all of this could be gone.

SPEAKER_04 51:39

Like now is like the worst version.

SPEAKER_00 51:41

And so I think that we're doing our best to make sure our students are day one ready in a lot of ways. And now just AI is gonna get weaved through that. Um, yeah, it's ours.

SPEAKER_03 51:52

Yeah, so I would say disagree other than U of A. Um, I think smaller colleges, liberal arts colleges are not keeping up.

SPEAKER_02 52:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_09 52:03

Carson, what do you think?

SPEAKER_10 52:04

It's hard. I think that Walton is definitely the exception. The U of A is an exception, but I also think I've seen like how challenging it still is there. Like as a topic, we are discussing it. We have classes about it, but as like individual professors, like having to navigate what that means in their class is still a challenge and is still something they're gonna have to figure out. Um, so kind of in the middle on that one, I think.

SPEAKER_09 52:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_10 52:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 52:28

All right, and the last one, and we'll start with you, Carson. Students today are more prepared than previous generations. Agree or disagree?

SPEAKER_10 52:39

I think it depends on like what we're saying with prepared, which I guess is kind of clear.

SPEAKER_09 52:44

You take it, you take it where you want to take it.

SPEAKER_10 52:46

Okay. Um, I think that in terms of like adaptability and having tools to brainstorm and all these different things, students have that ability. Like, there's so many more resources now and they're learning how to utilize them. But I think in terms of maybe just starting an entry-level role, the tradition of getting that the basics and all of those things, they might not be because the four years that they've had, is that gonna translate? Like they don't know the answer yet. And so I think they're more adaptable, but in terms of tradition and a lot of things that have built really strong careers, it's gonna be interesting how that plays out. Yep. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 53:28

Anne? Agree, disagree.

SPEAKER_00 53:30

Uh yeah. What was the question? One more time.

SPEAKER_09 53:32

The question is students today are more prepared than previous generations.

SPEAKER_00 53:36

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I I mean, all right, I'll I'll be a dinosaur here for a minute, but does anybody know what overhead transparencies are? All right. Yeah. So when I first started teaching, like that's what we used, right? Overhead transparencies. I think I'm blown away now that little kids are using technology, right? And we're seeing AI brought into elementary schools in different ways as mentors and coaches. And and so I think that the level of just being able to adapt, like you talked about, is I'm seeing that in the class. Like they're not afraid to try new things, they're not afraid to adapt or afraid of change.

SPEAKER_02 54:12

Right.

SPEAKER_00 54:13

Whereas someone like me, I um, yeah, it's harder, right? It's harder for us to feel um, I guess, confident in the changes that are taking place so fast. Whereas I think for you all, it's just like commonplace. Like everything's moving at a a pace that's so fast anyway, that it's just easy. So yeah, so I think I think they're probably more prepared in that way. Um, but I also kind of agree with you. It's it's a time where we don't know what it's gonna look like, you know? Yeah, and so I think they're probably they have a level of anxiety. I don't know if it's unpreparedness, which is just like a level of anxiety.

SPEAKER_09 54:47

A little bit on their heels versus on their toes, yeah, for sure.

Key Takeaways And Thanks

SPEAKER_09 54:50

Okay, well, that's a wrap on this edition of the recap of retail media vibes. So going back through this these clips, you know, the thing that stood out to me is this that the industry conversation is is moving fast, but it's still very human at its center. Leadership still matters, shopper psychology still matters, relationships still matter, and curiosity still matters. And of course, AI matters, and it's a huge disruption, but it's really there to help us do better work and not replace thinking and humanity altogether. So this episode is actually a little bit of a special one, even though it is also a recap episode, but this is the 20th episode of Retail Media Vibes, and that's kind of crazy to say out loud, you know, you plan to get to 20 episodes, and you know, the the work that it takes to get there uh sometimes uh feels daunting, and you just wonder if you can be consistent enough to get to 20 episodes. So I'm super thankful to get to this 20th episode, but I'm even more thankful for every guest that I've had on this show who has sat down with me, shared their knowledge, their talents, their perspectives, and you know, had a really open conversation uh with me about how they feel and what they what they think. I want to send out big thanks to those that were just featured in this clip episode, which was Jess Hendricks, Amanda Weinland Danish, Blake Taylor, and Lindsay Hamm, and of course the live panel that we had with Dr. Villa Clint, uh Sarah White, Victoria Van Dusen, and and Carson uh as well. So uh huge thanks to all of those as well. If you've enjoyed this episode or any episode for that matter of Retail Media Vibes, be sure to like it, share it, tell your friends about it. If you want to see all of the episodes that uh we have for retail media vibes, you can go to retailmedia vibes dot com. Thanks for listening, and as always, I promise to do better next time. Be the outfit,