The Most Underutilized Channel in Retail Media

Most commerce teams obsess over bottom-of-funnel search clicks and visual display ads, leaving one of the most effective conversion drivers completely untapped. Despite retail shoppers spending an average of 22% of their digital time streaming music and podcasts, brand investment in digital audio hovers around just 1%. In this episode of Retail Media Vibes, host BV sits down live in Rogers, Arkansas with Adam Ross, Sales Director for Commerce and Retail Media Partnerships at SiriusXM Media, to unpack how marketers can leverage audio to drive measurable, closed-loop commerce outcomes.

We sit down to explore the massive operational shift from upper-funnel brand awareness to data-driven retail media execution. Adam breaks down the three tiers of the SiriusXM ecosystem—satellite in-car listening with connected 360L technology, streaming platforms like Pandora and SoundCloud, and the country's largest podcast network—as well as their groundbreaking new role as the exclusive audio advertising partner for YouTube and YouTube Music. We get into why peak audio consumption aligns perfectly with peak daytime shopping hours, how small and mid-tail brands can utilize zero-cost creative production through Studio Resonate to conquer localized DMAs, and why layering audio into an omnichannel media mix dramatically lifts conversion rates across Amazon, search, and connected TV.

The operational reality of retail media demands rigorous measurement, and audio is no longer a guessing game. By passing back direct identifiers through partners like Walmart Connect and Amazon Marketing Cloud, brands are now tracking precise multi-touch attribution, sales lift, and new-to-brand metrics—including an average 46% new-to-brand buyer uplift demonstrated in recent Kroger case studies. Adam also details how artificial intelligence is transforming dynamic audio creative, enabling brands to serve hundreds of thousands of personalized ad variations based on real-time weather, inventory, and countdown timers without ballooning production costs.

If you care about omnichannel retail strategies, digital merchandising innovation, and maximizing your ad spend efficiency, you’ll get a lot from this. Make sure to subscribe to Retail Media Vibes and share this episode with your commerce and media planning teams. What percentage of your current retail media budget is allocated to demand generation versus bottom-funnel demand capture?

0:00 - Welcome to Retail Media Vibes & Adam Ross Intro 1:04 - From Pandora to SiriusXM: 20 Years in Digital Commerce 5:19 - The Old Spice Story & Wu-Tang Icebreaker 7:54 - The True Role of Audio in the Retail Media Ecosystem 10:50 - The 22% Attention vs. 1% Investment Gap 12:37 - Breaking Down the SiriusXM Ecosystem (Satellite, Streaming, Podcasts) 15:38 - How Small and Mid-Tail Brands Can Scale with Audio Ads 19:33 - Podcast Advertising: Host-Read vs. Targeted Programmatic Networks 24:02 - SiriusXM’s Exclusive YouTube & YouTube Music Partnership 27:04 - Demand Generation vs. Demand Capture in E-Commerce 29:16 - AI in Audio: Dynamic Creative Optimization at Scale 34:06 - Closed-Loop Measurement, ROAS, and New-to-Brand Uplift 36:45 - Bold Vibes: Rapid-Fire Industry Predictions 42:55 - How to Connect with Adam Ross & Final Thoughts

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:13

What's up, party people? BV here, and welcome to another episode of Retail Media Vibes, a doing business and Bentonville podcast. We are recording live at Podcast Video Studios here in Rogers, Arkansas. So my guest today is Adam Ross, and Adam Ross is a sales director for commerce and retail media partnerships at Sirius XM. So our main focus and our topic today is really going to be about what role does audio play in retail media? And there's a lot to unpack around that, right? Sirius XM is a huge ecosystem of various audio, uh, audio portfolio. And we're going to get into that with Adam today. So with all that, let's get into the show. Adam, welcome to Retail Media Vibes. Good to have you here.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

Thanks, Booy. Happy to be here, man. Great to see you. Awesome.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

Well, let's do a little vibe check, get to know Adam a little bit before we jump into our main topics uh today. So, you know, let's talk about your background. You know, what what do you do today? How did you get into this business? And uh tell us a little bit more about that.

SPEAKER_00 1:19

Yeah, you bet. Um it's been a fun ride, man. So uh I I'll tell you, I've been in digital media for about 20 years. Um only halfway through this ride, kind of 20 years to go, uh, hopefully if I'm lucky. So um uh yeah, been in been in the in in the digital media business for 20 years, um, and really got focused on shopper marketing about 13 years ago. So started with a company that's um now part of Elasis Digital, um, and really that's where I cut my teeth and learned learned everything commerce and shopper marketing. Uh, and then about 10 years ago, I had an opportunity to join Pandora. So, you know, we are Sirius XM Media, um, but 10 years ago, we were just Pandora before we got acquired and became part of the Sirius XM ecosystem.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

Right. And that's where I met you was uh it was Pandora. So we were doing you know Pandora ads uh together um at my former agency.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

Yeah, man. The heyday, the good old days. That was back when Pandora was actually the only streaming music service um available. That's before Spotify was in North America. And so uh for folks who remember 20 years ago when Pandora first launched, it was an awesome time. Yeah, that's really how I got started. And and uh it's been a lot of fun. And uh, you know, I'm I think we're at a really exciting uh uh we're at a really exciting inflection point for audio where we're just starting to get a lot more of the spotlight in commerce as a channel.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

So we can jump into that. Now, obviously, shopper marketing has evolved and now we call it commerce media and we call retail media, and we've got a lot of different facets of what shopper marketing is today. But, you know, to have the wherewithal to figure out, okay, how do I make these brands that activate at these different retailers? You know, how do I bring the world of audio to reach an audience that they may not have uh have able be able to access through a very engaging channel. And, you know, one of the things I really like about audio and music, it's an emotional channel, right? So there are a few channels that are very emotionally driven, you know, sports, entertainment, music, et cetera, right? And so a lot of a lot of the sales decisions and purchase decisions that that people make are emotional, right? So you have this emotional platform connecting with the emotional side of shopper behavior, bringing those two things together in order to, you know, drive brand and product affinity and you know, help with the, and we'll talk a little bit about uh, you know, the the funnel, because we can't have a can't we can't have a podcast without talking about the funnel. But anyway, we'll talk about that.

SPEAKER_00 3:56

No, thanks for touching on that. I was just gonna say, I I think I love what you said about the emotional connection. And this is one thing that, you know, sometimes I think we get so fixated on rich audience targeting, right? And what can we do for category buyers and laps buyers and this advanced predictive modeling? And it's all about how can sound really change the way you experience the world around you, right? And whether that's wine or a brand or a shopping experience or whatever it might be. And then so that's how we tie it all in. But to your point, uh sometimes you guys gotta step back and I remind folks, this is music. This is the stuff that really gets you fired up, gets you inspired. It could be sports, it could be talk, you know, talk, exports talk that's getting you fired up about your team and or you know, a trade you just made. Uh, it could be multicultural, um, or it could just be that song that comes on that reminds you of some really special or incredible time in your life, right? Um, and it evokes this emotional connection. So thanks for saying that. I it's one thing I always try to remind myself too, to just never forget that and get too lost in the data. Because I think we all tend to get lost a lot of times in the data and the details and and and stop to think about all right, how do people really engage with audio and and and versus you know, maybe reading an ad that's displayed against something of, you know, where there's something horrible that happened in the world, right? That's not part of the music experience. So yeah, anyway, thanks for saying that. So that's a good point.

SPEAKER_01 5:18

So, Adam, you also have the distinction of being in my top five of one of the most memorable moments that I have had in marketing. And so you and I partnered together on an old spice product called Blow Deck, which was a which is a spray new product. And uh you brought you brought to market the the the talent and the and the platform on Pandora, in which we were able to bring this amazing uh audio to to life. Now, unfortunately, I cannot share the audio, but what I do have, I have the script. So I wish I knew, I wish I remembered who wrote the script. So it was somebody at Saat X. So shout out to the creative team at Saaty, uh at Sachi X. But I'm going to read, I'm gonna read it. And you know, so uh, and this is when the magic comes together. So I can't do it with the with the talent that you all brought to the table to do such a great job of bringing this to life. But I'm gonna go ahead and attempt to do this now. So I found this. Ahoy Pandora listener. Tired of the sweat and smell of not so smooth sailing, inner thighs rubbing against your ship's hull. Protect your precious cargo with old spice below deck powder spray and anti-chafe stick. They're easy to use for a drier, cleaner feel that keeps friction and moisture at bay, even on the go. So you're you uh you have a place there for sure always. Um let's do just a quick icebreaker. I think things are flowing really well, but let's do an icebreaker. So uh what was your first concert?

SPEAKER_00 7:04

First concert. Um, so believe it or not, my kids probably wouldn't believe this was Wu Tang. Uh, and I was a junior. Yeah, I was a huge, I'm still a Wu Tang fan. Uh uh, you know, if I if I hear ODP or Method Man or those guys, they still get me fired up. But um yeah, so I I went to high school in the 90s. I think this is mid-90s. I was a junior in high school, and it was in Albuquerque, New Mexico. I actually grew up in in the West in New Mexico.

SPEAKER_01 7:31

So my first car concert was Whitney Houston, and after seven, opened up for Whitney Houston. That was my first concert. So uh really enjoyed that back then. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, obviously a legend uh in her right for sure. But so is Wu Tang. Cool. All right, with that, let's uh let's get into the topic around you know, audio in in retail media. So, you know, Adam, like at the highest level, what role can audio really play in the retail media ecosystem?

SPEAKER_00 8:07

Love it. I I think it can play a lot of roles. I I I think audio can really be the connective tissue from brand tech tactics, you know, and building awareness all the way through to conversion. And then of course, using our great retail media network partners to to measure those conversion outcomes. But um, you know, one of the things we talk a lot about, if you were going to put one label on it, would be incrementality. Um, I think there's a massive opportunity to reach a tremendous amount of shoppers that you might not be engaging if you're only using kind of the tried and true traditional commerce tactics to recruit those new to brand buyers. And so that's a lot of what we do is that incremental reach. Um, and then of course, reaching them in ideally in these contextually relevant moments. So a lot of what we talk about is not only can, and by the way, just to throw us a few stats, and the good news is, you know, when it comes to audio, we've been in this space for a long time. We we have retail media network partnerships that that go back about seven years. Today we work with every major North American retail partner. And um, so we got a lot of great you know, case studies under our belt uh to give us some some fun metrics. But um, new to brand and or you know, uh new household trial uplift is one of those KPIs that we consistently blow out of the water. And so it's all about that incremental audience. Um, and then again, reaching them in times where where really the only way you can reach them anytime, you know, reaching them in moments where screens are present. And I think when we do that in a contextually relevant environment, um, it can be it can be really powerful. So some examples would be maybe you're a supplements company or a wellness company and you want to reach folks while they're exercising, right? But what are you doing while you're while you're exercising or walking? You're like probably probably listening to music or a podcast. Maybe you're a cleaning brand and it's spring cleaning and you want to reach folks, you know, while they're cleaning, right? What are you doing while you're cleaning your ass? Probably listening to music or your favorite podcast. And so um, it's all about that incremental reach and again being able to reach folks in these moments where there's really no other way to reach them. So that's a lot of a lot of what we talk about.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

So with with that opportunity to reach so many people at, you know, at at probably alternative uh moments in their day, right? And so instead of focused in front of a screen, whether it be a phone or be it a uh uh TV, you know, and so where like a lot of the a lot of the investments in retail media happen, right? So it's either through the retailer or it's you know, programmatic display or connected TV, right? Which, you know, these are the moments that require a lot of visual, you know, visual time, right? Screen time, so to speak. Why do you think audio doesn't always get the opportunities that those other channels typically get when it comes to to retail media? What do you think some of the the opportunities or challenges may be?

SPEAKER_00 11:01

Yeah, it's a great question. So, and this is what I have been evangelizing, and this is the mountain I've been climbing. And that's why you're on the podcast, like to help to help people understand that there is an opportunity here. There is. And thank you, brother. And you know, candidly, a lot of it is just a lack of awareness. And and we get it. I mean, audio is not necessarily a channel that all especially a lot of commerce marketers think of. You know, it's not always in their lexicon, right? I think uh it's traditionally been thought of as more of a brand tactic and more of an upper funnel awareness tactic. And so when it comes to commerce, it's really about a making sure that they're aware that audio is a channel. You know, we're talking about digital audio too, right? It's one to one. So to answer your question, you know, one of the things I think we talk a lot about is people don't realize how much time is spent with audio versus what the investment looks like. So on average, shoppers, Walmart shoppers are spending 22% of their time streaming music or podcasts. But the investment in the channel, you know, is typically like 1%. So there's this massive bridge to that I this this massive gap that I need to bridge. Um, and making sure that again, that we're engaging these people all along the path to purchase wherever they are, wherever they're naturally consuming media, and they're spending a whole bunch of time with audio and people just don't think about us. So it's kind of bringing that to light, and then also making sure that folks can realize a audio consumption peaks during the day when shopping peaks. I mean, CTV typically peaks later at night. Yeah, I think that's the answer.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

So actually, I think you hit on something just to clarify for the audience. So, what what makes up the suite of offerings from Sirius XM? Like what is part of the Sirius XM ecosystem or or network of products?

SPEAKER_00 12:47

Yeah, that's another big education gap that we have to cover because we're Sirius XM Media. So as a brand, everyone thinks of us as Sirius XM, like the service that's in your vehicle, or maybe you have the app on your phone. And that is part of who we are, but we're this massive auto audio entertainment ecosystem. So I like to think of it in kind of three different tiers. We have um first is is the Sirius XM, which is the satellite service that's in your vehicle and Dash, and then the app. Um, there's still some work in engineering coming on the in-car Sirius XM inventory to make sure we can leverage all the rich data sets for retailers, but not to go too deep into this, but we're excited about the future because there's this massive amount of people listening in their vehicles. Well, now, go you know, the last three years, pretty much every car on the road has this technology called 360L. Your car is basically a computer, it has an IP address. So we're gonna be able to do a lot more digital targeting when it comes to in-vehicle listening. Yes. And so as that continues to scale, basically we're just waiting for enough of these new cars that have that tech to be on the streets where the scale is there, and then we can roll some of this out. So that's one tier. The other two big tiers, which aren't Sirius XM, and really what we leverage the most in retail media, are streaming music. So we have Pandora, like you know, to where we started, massive, massive um ad support of reach. We are SoundCloud, Adobe, Audio Mac, Spanish Broadcasting Systems, TuneIn, YouTube, which we'll talk about. We are now the exclusive audio advertising partner of YouTube. That includes YouTube main and YouTube Music. So tons of streaming music, uh scale and reach. And then podcasts. We're actually the biggest podcast network in the US. So what better time to talk about podcasts than on a podcast? I love doing this. And very meta. Yeah, exactly. So, and podcast is the fastest growing segment of our business. It's booming. Um, I mean, it keeps exploding, not just the amount of folks that are listening, but how much they listen. I'm a I'm the perfect reflection of that because I used to be just a total music head, and now I listen to a lot of podcasts too. But so we're always investing in new content, new creators. Um, and so the podcast is it, I think too, is also a really exciting time for retail media because it's it's so new. And it's about um, you know, being able to close the loop on measurement by the podcast is really exciting. Right.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

And here's, you know, what I also I think realize, or maybe is something that you know people in the audience are probably thinking, well, audio, well, that's just a big brand play. That's for the the PNGs, the Unilevers, the Coca-Cola's of the world, right? I don't have that kind of budget. Right. How do, you know, how do I participate in audio? Like it's it doesn't make sense to me. I don't have that kind of money. How how can audio help your you know your smaller or medium size brands uh as well? Um, and what is you know, help help me make that argument for who, you know, how do they uh participate as well?

SPEAKER_00 15:46

Yeah. It's great, great question. And so certainly we do a lot with you know a lot of the enterprise CPG partners and some of the bigger suppliers. So that's definitely a lot of where we play. And then more so, we are definitely starting to now branch out. Now that we've kind of built a lot of the audio infrastructure around some of the core suppliers, there's a huge opportunity for mid and long tail. So one thing I'll say is the investment minimums are extremely low and right size for small brands. When it comes to audio assets, reproduce all audio assets as added value. Um, so you know, not not having, and that's a big part of this because a lot of brands don't have audio assets. We never want to be that, have that be a barrier to. Yeah. You know, and even if they've got a great brand asset, it probably doesn't have a Walmart specific CTA, right? Or a Prime Day specific CTA or Mega Vent, whatever it is, right? You might be doing. So even if you have a brand spot, we can definitely take that and tailor it. I think we um, you know, we create a lot of bespoke stuff, like we did that awesome campaign we did for Alt Spice back in the day. Um, so we will produce audio assets as added value for these small brands. Whereas, and you know, and you think about it, you know, the cool thing about an audio spot is it's 30 seconds of non-skippable audio. So it just gives you a lot of time, like with a video asset, to do a lot more storytelling and to uh it to help people understand who your what your brand is and why it's better than what I've been putting in my basket today. And you can do that really effectively with you having 30 seconds of non-skippable audio, similar to video, but without the expensive production cost of video. So um, and I don't we'll get into where AI plays into all that too, but um, so I think we, you know, for the mid-tail and the long tail brands that are really trying to break in, it's about you know having low cost of entry, free creative assets, right, to be able to test and to be able to have the time to do the storytelling and to build the brand awareness that is necessary uh for a lot of those brands to win that fight for shelf space. So um hopefully that answers that question. That's that's how we like to think about it when it comes to some of those smaller players.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

Yeah, I think the key thing is, and correct me if I misheard, but like there's a low minimum or you know, very low minimum to get in. I think in some cases, you know, I like the way I think about marketing a lot of times is like I want to be where my competitors aren't so I can own the share of voice around a specific thing. So if you're if your competitors are not on audio, then you have an opportunity to own that that space, right? So you can, you know, make some good traction, especially you know, new to brand, new new product, et cetera. And then third thing I think is, you know, the localization opportunity, right? The opportunity, like if you like you said before, if there's an event going on in an area or you have a limited run of product that's happening in a certain uh certain market, certain DMAs, then you can just run in those DMAs. You don't have to run a national national campaign. You can and so you can you know be smarter with your budget. Um you can also, you know, do uh you can also do day parting, right? So if your product lends itself to morning use, you know, you day part accordingly. If it's more evening use, day part accordingly, right? And so you can be smarter with your budgets and your activations. And I do think it's a huge value add that you all do uh provide uh the creative services to produce the spots that you use, and you can do that for multiple retailers. So I think that's a super value add for those that may not have the huge budgets that they think they need.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

That's a great point, man. And I thank you for that. Yeah, I totally, totally agree. I I think also, you know, like I just had a conversation with a company yesterday where they had national distribution, but they had some regions where they have a lot more product on the floor.

SPEAKER_01 19:32

Let's talk about podcasts a little bit because you know, podcast is obviously uh a fast growing uh medium for sure. Um, and I think, you know, there's always, you know, I know when we tried to do podcast advertising, it was sometimes that was challenging because you're trying to align a certain product and message to a certain podcast, and you're trying to be brand safe. And there's a lot of the things that go into podcasts. It's not quite the same as audio necessarily, um, because of the topics and the nature and and making it feel like it's not a huge disruption to the to the listener, right? So can you talk a little bit about the advertising that you all run specifically around podcasts?

SPEAKER_00 20:17

It's also, you know, I tell people, you know, when you think of like influencer marketing, don't discount podcasts. A lot of people go to podcasts uh, you know, for inspiration, for advice. Um, you know, they trust they trust podcasters to give them uh good recommendations. And uh so I think it's a really powerful medium, the long-form content, it's a really it can be a very leaned-in audience. So um, you know, what I'd say about podcasts is it's twofold. And so I think the people, and like and rightly so, uh they naturally think when they think podcasts, they think host read. So, you know, conin, reading a host red spot, right? Maybe BV one day, reading a reading a reading a yay, who some if anybody wants that to happen, please contact me. That's right. That's right. Reach out. Um, so those are great. And to your point, those are harder to execute. You know, you've got to work with the the the the host and the content creators, make sure are they open to my brand, right? And and then you are limited in targeting because you're basically reaching the audience that listens to that podcast, whoever they might be. Great play. I think in you know, you're really you you're you're signing on basically a spokesperson, right, who's gonna be an ambassador for your brand. And there's a lot that can come from that. That's a huge part of our business, very, very valuable if you're a marketer. On the flip side of that coin is podcast network, and that's where retail media really comes in. Because now, and this is one of the great things too, but traditionally, and podcasts is still the wild west, by the way, is kind of these blurred lines audio and video. Um, but to get back to my point, you know, with podcasts, and we were pretty limited in what we could do from a target. Perspective and from a measurement perspective. A podcast doesn't have a click-through, right? Like you do with a lot of your traditional digital tactics, which are have traditionally been a massive piece of commerce and shopper marketers and a KPI. And that doesn't exist with podcasts. And that was a challenge. Now we have the ability to not only get just as targeted with podcasts as you can with like digital display, right? You can reach people that are purchasing your category, lapsed buyers, competitive brand buyers, all that great retail data that you want to leverage through a retail media network channel. You can do that and you can close the loop on measurement. So we're passing back those identifiers to say, all right, great, you heard my ad to someone who was listening to Mel Robbins or Conan O'Brien. And then they went in to Walmart, in store or online, and purchased the product. And you get that closed loop measurement. That didn't exist before. So that's a very new piece. And that's in partnership with Walmart Connect, right? That is, or any of our retail media network partners.

SPEAKER_01 23:01

As an example in the Walmart example, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:03

Yep, exactly. Walmart Connect, and they are a big partner. Uh, and and we certainly do a lot of really successful podcast campaigns through Walmart Connect. Um, you know, Amazon's the some of the bigger retailers uh in our country. So um, but you know, that is also it's about reaching the right audience, regardless of where they're consuming podcasts. So versus, all right, I just want to be on Mel Robbins. Mel Robin does a host read, fantastic, great play, great brand awareness play. Now I want to reach people that are only buying in my category or maybe they're lap spires, you know, all those really powerful retail media data, uh, value propositions. And let's hit them wherever they're listening to, whether they're listening to Conan or Smartless or Rotten Mago, whatever it is, right? We're gonna, our dateline, we're gonna find those shoppers and we're gonna hit them. And uh we build these spots again, as added value, um, that really feel native to that listening environment. So they're gonna really flow with the rest of the podcast, but they're gonna be dynamically inserted as pre-roll or mid-roll into the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 24:01

I mean, you mentioned earlier about uh your YouTube, um, you know, your YouTube opportunities seem uh can you explain a little bit more about like what uh what that partnership looks like?

SPEAKER_00 24:12

Yes. Brand new, massive announcement, huge step for the company. Kudos to to all of my executive leadership for getting that deal done. Um, we're really excited about it. It's brand new. We're still in beta. So um, you know, uh there's it's it's definitely a brand new, brand new component and um it's something that will be really fully baked by 2027. Uh, but essentially we will and it will be exclusively working as uh the exclusive audio advertising arm of YouTube. And so that includes YouTube main. Um, so you know, a lot of listening happens on on the main platform, and it also includes YouTube music. You can imagine YouTube music, huge opportunity for audio. I think um, you know, when it comes to YouTube, I don't YouTube hasn't really been fully recognized as part of the audio landscape. They're really fought out of as a video first platform, right? But there's so much listening that happens. Maybe you start a podcast, maybe you are watching a little bit of it, you set the phone down, you background the screen, you get going about your task, you're washing dishes, um, and then you're just listening to the podcast. And I'm sure right now there's folks that will be watching this podcast and listening. So it's about reaching those folks and those listening and those audio first moments that we're going to be leveraging and really helping to make sure that, again, that we're we're taking opportunity of this massive scale, this massive reach that exists um with YouTube. I think, you know, YouTube's massive scale and complexity kind of made it harder to understand the that kind of audio first play. And that's really where we'll be leaned in and helping folks reach those, those, those, you know, the those those YouTube audiences when they're listening versus watching.

SPEAKER_01 25:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:57

Yeah. Well, congrats on that. That sounds like a huge win for for y'all to have that partnership, to have that level of of scale as well, adding that to um, you know, your already robust uh capabilities and options for for your advertisers.

SPEAKER_00 26:10

And certainly, because a whole lot of media consumption happening on YouTube and a whole lot of it is audio first. And that's where we want to tap in.

SPEAKER_01 26:17

Yeah, and I think that's one of the things I want to dispel with um, you know, with this podcast, this discussion is like it's not just one channel when you engage in audio through Sirius XM. You have the opportunity to read if you want, you know, if you want to be part of the YouTube, you want to be part of podcasts, you want to be part of the broadcast, uh, audio through satellite. Like there are all these different things. You can take some, all or, you know, or you know, well, we need to do at least one, but you can do some or all of those, right? In order to round it out, whatever you feel comfortable with, and you know, wherever your audience is, and you know, so whatever your budget is. So there is a lot more flexibility. I think there is still that mindset of, all right, I'm gonna throw X amount of dollars at audio, and you know, that's just gonna be it. And, you know, not really understanding all the opportunities uh underneath that umbrella.

SPEAKER_00 27:05

Yeah, absolutely. And I think one of the things I like to talk about too is it's not even just audio, but how does audio complement really a full funnel, omni-channeled approach? And we have a lot of studies that showcase, you know, how audio, when it's layered in, really dramatically improves um the investments you're already making in in in other media channels. Certainly on-site. We've uh in fact, I was um on stage with Kroger uh last year at the Path to Purchase Retail Media Summit, and we were showcasing a case study that that demonstrated just that how when audio is layered into a channel. In fact, this one was also in in concert with Pinterest, when those two channels are layered in, dramatic improvements in conversion when it comes to search. We just published a really massive Amazon case study that showcases um you know some of the incremental reach you get with audio when it comes to um layering that onto different channels. So, you know, when it comes to like uh layering it onto an Amazon Prime by massive growth, layering onto display by, um, or an OLV by. So we know that really um all boats float in rising tides. And so audio can not only help you reach this massive incremental audience that you won't be reaching if you're not considering music and podcasts of the channel. And I think there has been this immense pressure too to be hyper focused on IROAS. And is audio going to be apples to apples when it comes to search? No, because those folks are at the bottom of the funnel and they're ready to convert. But what happens when you convert all those people at the bottom of the funnel?

SPEAKER_01 28:40

But yeah, I think you know, it comes down to two things demand capture and demand generation. If you don't generate enough demand, there's nothing to capture. And yeah, you can continue to you have your loyalists, of course, that are always going to buy, but you know, you need to continue to grow your brands, build awareness of your products, fill that funnel so that when they get to that page, you are clearly an option for them to make that purchase decision. Yes, absolutely. So we talked about the F-word, uh, which you know comes up quite often in this podcast. So another thing that typically comes up on this podcast is AI. And obviously AI is impacting so many different parts of this industry and so many other industries. Um, but I think, you know, before we were talking about, you know, off-camera, we were talking about like a recent experience that you had where AI was used uh very productively within audio. So there's two parts to my question. One is, you know, what is the what is you know, Sirius XM's uh thought process around the usage of AI and creation of audio? And then second, you know, like tell us a little bit about that, that, that opportunity uh that we talked about off air about how AI was super helpful in a specific campaign.

SPEAKER_00 30:02

Yeah. I think AI is gonna do so much. And I certainly on the creative front, I think also just in a to your point, too, when it comes to getting more sophisticated analyzation of measurement and being able to get a cleaner view of all right, what channels are really moving the needle and and and getting a cleaner read through partners like the you know, Amazon Marketing Cloud. Um, I think it's gonna make a huge difference there too. And I think it's gonna shed a light on all right, hey, there is this massive upside to leveraging new channels, right? And not just being focused on these certain tactics. Um, but on the creative side, huge opportunity. And I think especially across the board, I mean massive. So with audio, there is definitely um an array of adoption. You know, there's sort of this spectrum, and I think it depends on what the campaign is, what the brand objective is. There's certainly times where you want to host read or you want that authentic human voice. Um, and then there's times where you can be incredibly successful by having dynamic creative that can only be achieved through AI resources. And so, yeah, the example we're talking about is this is a great Walmart example, actually, um, is the countdown to Christmas and being able to serve literally hundreds of thousands of different audio spots that are reaching people with dynamic messaging based on you know all the different things, right? Where we are, weather targeting, how many days are left, how many minutes are left until Christmas, right? Uh, and and building that sense of urgency. And so being able to build that and then dynamically serve that um can be really, really powerful. And that can really only be done with AI tools. And so we're definitely still in, I would say we're um, you know, we're in this evolution and always assessing what client adoption looks like. And I think there is a spectrum, but I think as we continue to move forward, it's gonna be a bigger and bigger piece of the puzzle. So a lot you can do there. And you know, there are definitely um Amazon as well, um, already has an AI audio creative tool that exists on their website. So if you're, you know, if you're looking to do something quick and easy, that's an easy tool to go and ping that out. But um uh I think uh there's other partners out there. And then I I know you and I have talked about where you, you know, it was you know, where the industry goes, I think there's gonna be a lot of opportunity to have some really powerful AI creative tools as well that'll help brands just be more relevant and be more precise with their targeting and make sure that they have messaging. And that could even be following folks across the path to purchase using some of those really sophisticated uh data segments that we're able to see, right? I got the brand message, I'm gonna get that middle final message now. It's CoVersion message, right? Uh and building all of those individual to each consumer uh would be very, very cumbersome and time consuming with traditional, uh, you know, with traditional creative and voice actors, but with with AI, you know, there's there's no limit. So you can do those things very efficiently.

SPEAKER_01 32:54

And I think in in that case too, a lot of a lot of um agencies and brands are probably thinking, man, I don't I don't know the strategy to make that possible. I would assume that your team can help develop a strategy that allows that to make sense, right? And then obviously, and then implement guidelines around AI that is in line with their, you know, their company's AI guidelines as well.

SPEAKER_00 33:23

Absolutely. And again, going back to what my role is and and and then my team, that's exactly what we're here to do. And really work and make sure that we're putting together a prescriptive strategic solution that aligns with retailer requirements, right? Then Ventor Tag ads and all that stuff. Um so, yes, and then we also have a really, really powerful in-house creative agency called Studio Resonate. And they are uh, you know, through wizards over there and helping to guide us on what would be the right tactic based on what those objectives are. So that's what we're here to do is help to steer those conversations based on, again, what does that brief look like? What are we trying to achieve? And and what's going to be the most effective way to do that. Awesome.

SPEAKER_01 34:03

So um, you know, we talked about this a little bit earlier, but I want to kind of bring it back to just a finer point, just be clear for the audience around the measurement, you know, opportunities, you know, with with audio, and just be clear on you know what what measurement you know services are are available in for you know the various types of audio that could be run through you all.

SPEAKER_00 34:28

Yeah. Thanks. So great, great point. So yeah, for commerce, we have a lot of third-party partnerships. Um, if we're measuring direct, whether that's sales lift or brand lift or even creative performance measurement. Um, so we can do all those things. And then through our retail media network partners, um, in every instance, we do close the loop on measurements. So you get the same level of insights and analytics for audio, both music and podcast, that you would for any other tactics. So certainly ROAS, AROAS, iROAS, you know, um, you know, with those retailers that provide that. Um, sales uplift, new to brand, buyer uplift is a huge one. And again, a benchmark that we blew out of the water, um, typically reaching, you know, around we did this big case study with Kroger and we analyzed um 46 different campaigns. We really said, hey, just send us a bunch of campaign reports. We're gonna bind them. We always want to see where his audio benchmark, you know, against those core KPIs. And we were at 46% average new-to-brand buyer uplift. So you'll see all those uh household, you know, traffic, unit uplift, all of those types of metrics are available. Um, you know, and it's based on whatever that RMN's methodology is. And I think that's a whole nother conversation, too, is some of the methodology differences, right? And not having standardization. Um, but um, we certainly love an MTA model. We love a multi-touch attribution model. That's will be, you know, though those those I think for a lot of off-site, certainly for audio and CTV as some of those partners, um, those can be a lot more informative. But um, yeah, you'll get get really robust reporting and insights. And so that's one of the big things um like that people don't realize about audio that you could that you can see that level of insight.

SPEAKER_01 36:05

Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, sometimes I think we we measure, try to measure everything, and we always try to use the same type of measurement. Like, but you know, audio has a different intent. And I think, you know, making sure that the measurement strategy aligns to the intent of audio and bringing those things together. And obviously, yes, you know, conversion and is is important and all those uh and part of that measurement, but that does that's not the only thing to tell the story of the impact that audio can have.

SPEAKER_00 36:34

Yeah, absolutely. And it's so much you can do too with building brand affinity and and are doing the, you know, are my building my brand awareness tactic while also meeting my conversion goals, all that stuff. Awesome.

SPEAKER_01 36:46

Cool. All right. Well, we're gonna we're gonna wrap things up here with our little bold vibes game that we like to play. I'm gonna throw some statements at you, Adam, that uh I want your gut reaction on. Are you uh are you ready to are you ready to play some bold vibes? I'm in the hot seat, huh? Yeah, you are on the hot seat. So we've got seven, seven of these bad boys here. So you ready? All right. Uh first one audio is the most underutilized channel in retail media. Yes, indeed.

SPEAKER_00 37:17

Um, luckily, we are starting to uh write that ship. It's a big ship to steer, so to speak, but it is underutilized. And again, I'll go back to my original. That means there's opportunity. That's you know, that there's opportunity. Massive opportunity to show thought leadership. You you are a mid-tail brand and you know, or a long tail brand. Um, you can have this opportunity to kind of own the space. I think so much to be done there. And then, you know, just to prove that point, is I look at them time spent. Your shoppers are spending a quarter of their day with the medium. It should be a channel you're thinking about. Um, but um, but definitely underutilized. So we're excited to keep the growth going. Awesome.

SPEAKER_01 37:54

Commerce teams are too focused on the bottom of the funnel.

SPEAKER_00 38:00

Yes, yes, again. Uh I totally agree. I I would be curious uh you know what some of the executive leadership, you know, at our agency partners and whole coast would say. But yeah, and I get it. I think you know they're beholden to certain metrics that the clients want to see. Um, but again, as we've talked about, so much can be done to grow, to grow that that share uh and to bring new new buyers into your brand and make sure also your investments are greatly amplifying the investments here. Hey, you are, you know, you might only be doing it today. So yes, I think the future, I think the future of retail media is going to be more omnichannel.

SPEAKER_01 38:38

Yep. I love it. Podcast hosts are becoming the new commerce influencers.

SPEAKER_00 38:46

Yes, again. Yes, absolutely. I mean, I I can tell you stories, and I don't know if you have any BB, but stories where I heard it, I heard I actually told this story on a panel not too long ago um of a coffee brand uh on one of my favorite podcasts. And um, you know, it got it from awareness to all right, I'm walking the aisle, I grab it, put it in my basket, drink it. It's delicious. I love it. So it took me all the way from awareness to consideration to conversion and now uh advocacy, right? So true story of incrementality. Um but uh I think uh you know I I do listen to a lot of podcasts. And by the way, if I so I'm I'm lucky, my my my my grocery is is right next to my gym. So if I'm at the gym and I got a killer podcast, I keep I keep it rolling, right? If I'm hooked when I go walk the aisles, and um um and definitely I take a lot of influence and recommendations from podcasts. So I think uh it's gonna continue to continue to grow.

SPEAKER_01 39:43

Awesome. Next one AI generated audio creative will go mainstream before AI generated video creative.

SPEAKER_00 39:54

Ooh, that's a good question. Um I think so. Yes. Um I I might throw that back at you, man. And you're the AI expert. Uh what do you I think so, yes. I think um, you know, certainly um with audio, it's it's there's probably less complexity than having some of the some of the video assets and the visual images. But I so I'd say yes, pump it out jam after jam after jam after jam. They're so good. I hate listening to them because they're so good. And I'm like, I know it's not real, but man, it's good stuff. I know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:29

Awesome. All right. Um trust will matter more than targeting in the next phase of commerce media. So a little industry reaction.

SPEAKER_00 40:40

Yeah, gosh. I don't know that I can put one above the other on the totem pole. I think they're both really important, but I do think trust is an important piece of the equation. And I think, you know, not to throw any other mediums under the bus, but I think there's been erosion of trust in other channels, um, where, you know, your algorithm's feeding you just one thing. And and uh, and so I, you know, distrust of information leads to the distrust of of advertising that might be adjacent to that information. I think when it comes to music, that you know, and there's no bots, uh, you know, there's no bots strolling uh Pandora, right? Crawling Pandora. You're coming there for the music that you love. Um, and for podcasts, you're listening to those hosts that you enjoy what they're talking about and you tend to trust the information they're providing you. Um, so I think it's a really important piece to align your marketing with trust. Um, but the training is important too. Uh in the you know, I must sound salesy as hell, but you know, the good thing about us is we can deliver both. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:44

All right. Last statement audio will earn a bigger seat at the table after this episode of retail media vibes.

SPEAKER_00 41:53

Oh man, absolutely. I hope so. Uh I I might not have a job if it doesn't. So just kidding. I you know, the good thing is, I might not have a podcast, right? So one or the other will happen. Well, let's hope we both get our wish. And uh I we are definitely we we have a lot of uh green flags and we have a lot of momentum, and we're continuing to see higher adoption of audio. Um, so we're we're excited about the future. Really, this I mean, last year was one of the first years where I just felt so much momentum and just so much more awareness and just um presence, you know, again, when it came to thank you for for opportunities like this and getting up panels and and brands and retailers talking about audio and and it being in the trade. So yeah, uh the future looks good. And I think future retail media is exciting. I think there's challenges with with the growth, you know. We've and it's gonna come from off-site and and and tapping into channels like us that have been underutilized. So, yeah, it's for sure. Awesome.

SPEAKER_01 42:50

All right, okay, party people. That is a wrap on this episode of retail media vibes. Before we go, Adam, do you have anything you'd like to plug?

SPEAKER_00 43:01

No, just great, great to see you. I've man, I've loved we've worked together for a decade. I've always enjoyed working with you. That that spot you brought up was a blast. That cheeky sailor guy was was killer. Um, so hope to hope to do more of those uh in the future. But um, yeah, thanks for the opportunity. If you are curious or you want to learn more about how does audio fit into your commerce strategies or brand or brand strategies, um, visit SiriusXmedia.com. We should have a whole section of the website dedicated to retail media and commerce. So um check that out. And then uh would love to connect with you. If you want to hear more, you can find me on LinkedIn. And my name's Adam Ross, I'm the director of commerce at SiriusXM. So we'd love to connect. Awesome.

SPEAKER_01 43:44

So um, you know, I've known you for for a long time, Adam, and you know, appreciate you coming on. But would you be willing to come back to the show if if the opportunity was was there?

SPEAKER_00 43:56

100%, man. Next time I got to make it to the studio, though, I it'd be more fun to sit across from you than happy to have you.

SPEAKER_01 44:02

Awesome. Well, Adam, thanks so much for this con uh this conversation. I think you know, bringing you know the opportunity of audio uh is important for the audience to hear. You know, it's uh it's definitely something that should be considered in that retail media uh ecosystem and that omnichannel media uh planning uh stage as well. So um I also want to thank everyone for listening and or watching uh Retail Media Vibes. If you want to catch all of the episodes of Retail Media Vibes, you can go to retailmedia vibes.com. Adam, again, thank you so much for being here and thanks to the audience for tuning in. And as always, I promise to do better next time. B V out.