18. Why You Need to Stop Settling for the Bare Minimum in Your Relationships with Lauren Gilley

I’m excited to welcome my friend, Lauren Gilley, to the podcast today!

Lauren Gilley is a Licensed Professional Counselor in Wichita, KS with main focuses in Couples Therapy, Perinatal Mental Health, and Sexual Wellness. She is a wife & mother who loves animals, spending time in nature, gardening, being with friends and family, and simply having a good time.

If you’re struggling with a  relationship that looks “fine” from the outside, but underneath the surface there’s disconnect and resentment, this episode is for YOU!

In today’s conversation, Lauren and I are unpacking something we both see all the time in the therapy room: the way so many people settle for emotional disconnection, unmet needs, and survival-mode partnership. And yes…they’re doing all of this while convincing themselves it’s “not that bad”.

We’re talking honestly about the bare minimum in relationships, emotional labor, and what it actually means to feel emotionally safe and supported by your partner. Desire discrepancies are about sooo much more than sex. 

Changes in intimacy don’t automatically mean something is wrong with you or your relationship either. Desire is not linear, and intimacy is not just physical connection - it’s emotional safety, communication, and feeling known and cared for.

Remember - you deserve relationships where your needs, emotions, and humanity are considered. Sometimes, rebuilding connection starts with simply being willing to have the conversation!

Episode Recap:

• What the “bare minimum” in relationships actually looks like
• Why emotional safety, respect + connection matter in partnership
• The mental load, invisible labor + resentment in parenthood
• Why women (especially moms) often settle for less than they need
• Unspoken expectations, communication + relationship resentment
• Desire discrepancies + why they’re about more than sex
• How stress, exhaustion, parenthood + emotional disconnection impact intimacy
• Why changing desire does not mean something is wrong with you
• Rebuilding connection through honest conversations + intentional rituals
• Small, low-pressure ways to reconnect emotionally with your partner

**Disclaimer: The content shared in this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for therapy or mental health care. If you’re struggling or need support, please reach out to a licensed mental health professional in your area, because you don’t have to go through it alone.

Links/Resources:

• Come Together by Emily Nagoski
• Follow Lauren on Instagram @lg_therapy
• Learn more about working with Lauren
• Follow on Instagram @tztherapy
• Check out my website

Transcript

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Hi friends, welcome to Reproductively Speaking. I'm Karen Spiker, and every week we will explore the intersection of parenthood, purpose, and mental well-being for honest stories, expert insights, and practical tools for everyday life. Grab your coffee, take a deep breath, and let's get into today's episode. Hey everyone, welcome back to Reproductively Speaking. I'm your host, Terrence Sweiger. Today's episode is such an important one because we're talking about relationships. Specifically, the way so many couples quietly settle for emotional disconnection, unmet needs, resentment, and surviving partnership instead of feeling truly known, supported, and connected. I'm joined today by Lauren Gilly, licensed professional counselor here in Wichita, Kansas, who specializes in couples therapy, perinatal mental health, and sexual wellness. And honestly, I think this conversation is one so many people are going to resonate with because we talk about things that often stay hidden behind closed doors, like desire discrepancies in relationships, emotional labor, communication, intimacy shifts after parenthood, and why doing the bare minimum in relationships should not be the standard we normalize. We also talk about the reality that desire is not linear, especially in long-term relationships, parenthood, stress, overwhelm, and everyday life, and how so many people internalize shame or believe that something is wrong with them when intimacy changes. This episode is not about blame. It's about curiosity, communication, emotional safety, and learning how to better understand ourselves and our partners. So whether you're navigating parenthood, feeling disconnected in your relationship, struggling with intimacy, or simply wanting deeper conversations around emotional connection and partnership, I think that there's something in this episode for you. Let's get into it. Hi, Lauren. Hi. I'm so glad that you're here. I'm so excited to be talking with you today. Me too. We are currently sitting on the floor in my office, crisscross applesauce, like we're little kids. Because most of the episodes that I've recorded with people um have been virtual. So this is fun to do it in person. So um I'm really excited to have this conversation with you today. But for those of you, those of you, I say that every single week. For those of you. For those of you. Um for the listeners who don't know you, um, could you introduce yourself and I can tell a little bit about you? I can. So I am Lauren Gilly. Taryn was my clinical supervisor before I was officially a therapist. So I was her student and then we became friends really quickly. Um, and now I work within Flourish, and so we're together, but not together all the time. Yes. We joke all the time, like we work in the same building with each other and see each other. Yeah. It's in passing. Yeah. We're ships in the night. We fist bump or high five down the hallway. Yeah. But yeah. So I am a therapist. Um, I really feel passionate about couples, so I like to do couples work. Men's mental health is becoming a lot more acceptably treated. I feel like like people are actually starting to seek treatment. Yeah. Um, so men's mental health, perinatal mental health, which is what's been great about flourish and what drew me here in the first place because I didn't know that was a thing after I had Nox. So my son is Nox. Yeah. And, you know, just life things. I feel like sometimes people think nothing is wrong with them. So why would I go to therapy? But it's like, yeah, when something's hard, like why wouldn't you go seek help from someone who's not gonna just tell you their opinion or just to do what they think you should do, you know? Yeah. So awesome. That's me as a therapist. Cool. So you and I have like been brainstorming about what feels like a good conversation for us to talk about. And I feel like we could talk about so many different things. But today we really want to talk about something that you and I both see showing up in the therapy room day after day, time after time with clients. Um, but it's not always talked out loud, like publicly in places that maybe we wish it would be more normalized. And so two different things we're gonna talk about. One is just like feeling like you're settling for the bare minimum in your relationship, and also about this idea of desire discrepancies and how like these desire discrepancies just aren't always about sex, like when we think about desire, um, but often about emotional safety and exhaustion and resentment and invisible labor and all the things. So maybe just to get us started, when when we say bare minimum, what are we actually talking about in relationships? Yeah. So to me, the reason that this I feel like comes up so much is, you know, a lot of times it is women and they'll come and they'll say, you know, he's just not nice to me, and like he just doesn't try, and I don't know if he even likes me, which yes, obviously those can be our own insecurities and our own things sometimes or their own things. But then, you know, sometimes it's coming down to, well, he doesn't hit me. So it's fine. That's not fine. Like that's the bare minimum. Right. And so for me, the bare minimum is you're emotionally safe, you're physically safe, and you feel a genuine respect for each other and like you feel loved by the other person. Nobody's perfect. And so obviously it's different. We all have extra needs, but we need to communicate those needs. But also, then that's where it kind of comes back to this part is on me. I have to communicate that I need more out of this. And just societally, yeah, men are not typically taught to be super outward about how they're feeling and their emotions outside of I want to have sex with you because that's how I feel connected to you. That part's not even said. It's just, I want to have sex with you. Yeah. Because you're so hot and I'm a guy and I just want to have sex all the time. Yeah. Which is also not true. Right. Obviously. Well, I think that's like the safe thing for men where they feel emotionally connected with women, right? Through intimacy versus using their words to tell you how they're feeling about something. It's like, let me show you. I care for you. Yeah. Yeah. So um, you had kind of like given an example, but what like does this typically look like day to day for couples that you see? Um, like how would you maybe start like honing in on maybe there's some issues with the bare minimum maybe happening in a relationship? Um, I feel like when people are saying a lot of, but it's fine, it's not that big of a deal, but then it's coming up every week or like several times in the same session. And it's like, okay, hang on here, because you have taken yourself in a full circle about the exact same complaint and the little things that aren't a big deal, when there's a lot of little things and they're either not being communicated or not being met, it is a big deal. Yeah. Like, you know, something as small as everyone has a different thing. But for me, I hate the dishes. And so for forever, my husband was like, I will do the dishes. And I'm like, okay, that's great. But guess what? Now I don't hate the dishes as much because I'm not the one doing them. So now I'm like, can you actually just do something else? Yeah. And I don't know. I guess my point with that is just because he's doing the dishes doesn't mean that he doesn't have to do anything else. Right. Or that that's all I should expect. It's like, oh, yeah, the bare minimum. Like, yeah. Why do you think that? I think this could be said for all genders, right? Not just women. But I feel like, and you and I primarily work with the majority of women, but we work with men too. Yeah. But why do you think that women specifically, and I would even go even further to say, like, even more specifically, moms, why has it been normalized that like we just should accept less than we want or we need? Because we're helpers. We're born and raised as helpers. That's our purpose. Yeah. And men are winners, and they're supposed to be winners and to win and to do everything the right way and to have the right answers, not ask for help, not need anything except for sex, and like to be desired by their person. Right. And I will say obviously, I'm very right now primarily talking about heterosexual remain relationships. You know, things do kind of change when there's a different gender dynamic, but when it is a man and a woman, yeah, the woman falls into the category of the helper. We don't need, we help. Yeah. The man falls into the category of, you know, there's research behind this in one of Emily Nagowski's books. I think it's the come together, um, where she talks about just the way that society builds us. And yeah, I think that that kind of plays into everything else that we do when that is our brain's mode of seeking help versus winning. And winning cannot equal a good partner. So you can't win at being a good partner. You're not gonna just win something. It's not a one answer. But then yeah, like the mental load and then being a parent and being a mother, and like some of this again comes down to our own control and wanting to have control and do things the right way. And are we willing to give that up? Yes, in some areas, but also we have to ask. Right. And yeah, I think a lot of times, most of the time, men don't understand what the mental load is or what that means, and like how could that have any impact on anything else? Yeah. Yeah. I I feel like oftentimes when I'm talking to women about this idea of, you know, the bare minimum or the mental load, you know, it is important to recognize the reality that men and women's brains operate differently. And oftentimes when I'm having this conversation, I'm explaining the brain as like women, our brain is like a bowl of spaghetti. All of the noodles are touching each other. All of the things that we have going on in our life, they're all intertwined and it's miss, it's messy and it's, you know, all these things. And then like men's brain are like a filing cabinet. They get in a fight with us or they're upset about something, right? And they like file it away in their little fight file. And then, like, it's time to watch the Super Bowl. So then they like open up the Super Bowl file and they just like focus on that thing, right? Right. And that's like probably like such a bad example, and like not giving men enough credit, right? Because like they're humans and well, yeah, but if that's how society has forced them to be, is to compartmentalize, and then there's some files that you light on fire, and then they never come back. Yeah, they're still in there, they're just all burned up and angry. A little crispy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I I for sure agree with you on that. I think society has definitely not helped men out in that favor of like emotional intelligence and being there, like emotionally. That is what we want. And that feeds into obviously our other conversation. So we'll come back to that, but like around desire. But even with the bare minimum, women, again, because a lot of the women I'm seeing are complaining about this. When I'm seeing men coming in and complaining, it's typically, and this is not a shade demand, men, but they want more sex from their wife. And I get that. Everyone wants to feel connected and loved and cared for. And if sex is important to you, great, of course. You're in a relationship, that's a big part of most people's relationships that differentiates it from a friendship. Right. But when the bare minimum is, oh, well, he'll listen to me when I talk, but I don't feel like he's there for me. I don't feel like he actually is listening and cares, which can be true, or sometimes it's not, and they just don't know what to say and they're frozen and don't want to say the wrong thing. Right. But yeah, I think when we accept that, then that's what they're gonna continue to do because they think this plays into desire too. But like they think that's what we want. Yeah. When we're just saying, okay, well, they listened, that's enough. Or I can share my feelings, but you never have to share your feelings because they're your feelings. I can't force you to do that. Or I know this is gonna be really uncomfortable for both of us, so I'm not gonna ask you to do that. But how shitty does it feel if we are pouring out how we feel? Right. And then never getting any feeling of a human being on the other side of it. Right. And hearing how they feel and how they experience things outside of, I don't know, yeah, what it looks like. Yeah. And it's also just unfair to the relationship and dynamic, the relationship dynamic in general, I think, too. You know, there's that quote that's like unspoken expectations lead to pre our our premeditated resentments, right? And so it's like, one, we need to remember that it's okay if our expectations change over time. Our lives, our marriage, our relationship is going to look a lot different pre-kids than it does after we start to have kids. Right. If that's, you know, the decision that we make. And so, like, obviously, our expectations lose people, right? You go group three more. Yeah. Like stress the state of the world, like everything. All of the things. Yeah. Like so our expectations and what we need is definitely going to ebb and flow. And like not being afraid to speak that, but we can't fault or blame our partner for not meeting our expectations if we're not doing the work that it takes to write, like communicating. Where are my expectations? Correct. Well, and that was my biggest thing. So I guess another piece, I know you know this, but for people listening about me, is I used to teach fifth grade. What a life change. What a thank God. I don't think any of my fifth graders will ever listen to this. But if you do, I didn't mean that in a mean way. I loved you so much, but it was not for me. But yeah, when I'm teaching them something or expecting them to do something, and this translates into just your own children. Like, you can't expect them to do something. They're kids, like especially under a certain age. I know that sometimes we just have our moments and we lose it, and then we have to center ourselves. But we have to give the expectation to be able to anticipate that they're gonna follow through with the expectation. And it's the same thing for us. We have to hold ourselves to the standard of, oh, guess I have to communicate this awkward thing. You don't just read my mind. Like one thing that I will tell clients sometimes. I remember my husband and I were talking about flowers. This is years ago. So my husband and I have been together for 12 years, married for seven years. He's better with this than me. It's like the switch. So a long time. Anyways, and when we were first dating, he would buy me flowers when like I remember he'd send them to me when I was de when he was deployed, or like on my birthday, or like on you know, special holiday, which is great. Love that. But you know, then I started expecting it. So for my brain, that's boring. So I'm like, Well, can you just send me flowers, but like at a different time? Like, but I do want you to send the flowers, but like maybe just not on my birthday, or like I'm tired of roses. Yeah, literally. And it's funny you say that because then he started sending me flowers on random Tuesdays, actually. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, you know, and that's because that's when they have a flower sale. And I'm like, you know what? I love a bargain, so that makes me even happier. But yeah, it's like I had held that in for so long. And so then we got in an argument about it, and I'm like, you know, like people when they'll be like, Valentine's Day shouldn't be the only day of the year that you feel loved. And it's like, yes, but it is special, and like I get, you know. Yeah. Um, but yeah, for so long I was just thinking that, but it felt selfish. Like I think you had already mentioned that in the beginning, like, or maybe this is something we talked about before, but feeling guilty for wanting more than the bare minimum, which not that getting flowers is the bare minimum. Right. That is a step above to me. You know, we it's not a requirement to be in a healthy relationship, but for me, it's something extra that he can do to show me, hey, I'm thinking about you and your special outside of these days, even if it's not something huge and fancy. Yeah. And I think like both women and men can be guilty of sort of like getting to this place in a relationship where they're comfortable. Oh yeah. Um, and I sometimes I wonder if like that like comfort zone is often times where we start to see people like shrinking themselves and not asking for needs. Or when things are good, is that what you're saying? When things are good and just like like they're not great, but they're okay. But they're okay. Yeah. Yeah. Like nobody's having an affair, nobody's like struggling. Calling the other name. Yeah. There's no physical violence, right? But like it's okay, but like it could be better, right? But but it's okay. I don't need to like rock the boat and like bring up any of my needs because things are comfortable. Right. And but that's the problem, is that bringing up your needs is gonna rock the boat. And depending on the person that you're with, this could go either way, whether it's the in a straight relationship, you know, but really either partner in either relationship, whatever it is. Like whoever is bringing up the complaint or something that they want to improve on, like they are doing that because they care enough to say, hey, I think my partner has it in them to change this thing. Right. Or I don't think they do when I'm having a conversation about how I'm ending this, or I'm just gonna continue to sacrifice myself to this relationship that I don't deserve. Yeah. But yeah, I think when we aren't communicating what we're really thinking, what we really need just to avoid a conflict. One, that obviously shows that there's need for more communication and conversation so that this thing isn't so sensitive and it doesn't feel like an attack. Yeah. Because yeah, I really, it really is an attempt to make things better if someone is bringing up a concern in a respectful way. Right. And yeah, that goes into couples therapy. And we need to be talking about, hey, maybe we should talk about the positive sometimes too. I feel like you're just dogging, you know? Yeah. Well, and I feel like a cycle that's pretty common. And, you know, if I'm working with a woman specifically, just alone, I can see it in what she describes, but also I see it in couple sessions in my office too, is we kind of get lost in this um like keeping score of like who's doing more and who's doing less, right? And and I don't remember where I saw this, um, but I I saw this article or somebody made a post about like reciprocity in relationships and the importance of it. And like it really is like we and sometimes even in my own relationship, like I have to get back and center myself and be like, no, we're a team. Right. Like when I win, you win. Yeah. When I lose, you lose, vice versa. Right. And it's not about you have all of these needs right now and you're too needy, but my needs aren't being met. It's like, I think oftentimes what I'm telling people is like sometimes we make sacrifices or we do things in our in a relationship, not because like we will get the immediate satisfaction or the immediate fix or the word. I can't think of the word. The like the immediate um reward. Reward or yeah. So like we we do something in a relationship, we don't get the immediate reward. But what happens is like we fulfill a need for our partner, and in turn, our partner then wants to reciprocate and like also help us meet our needs too. And you know, one thing I'm oftentimes thinking about, because I work a lot with women like during the perinatal period, couples during the perinatal period is uh a couple years ago I had an opportunity to take a training by Dr. Dan Singley. He is just an amazing human. He lives in California, he runs this the Center for Men's Excellence. Oh. And the training was all about paternal mental health. And one of the things that he said to me, you know, we talked about toxic masculinity, we talked about how society sets men up for failure because it tells them you have to be manly and you have to do all of these things, right? And how it actually keeps them from intimacy by keeping themselves in this box that society tells them they have to be in. But he talked about how for a lot of men, their primary emotional support person is their partner, is their spouse. And I mean, you're a mom. What happens when we have a baby? Like that primary person that we used to give all of our love and attention and we were obsessed with was our partner. And now we have to shift some of that energy and attention to the baby, obviously, like who's needs you, needs us. But like that is a really, really hard transition for men. And oftentimes that's where, you know, in in the parental world, we see men struggling with the transition to parenting, struggling with things like overworking, substance use, porn addiction, increase in domestic violence, like all of these things, right? Because now their needs are not gonna be bad too or or yeah, which fair like I just had a baby, you know, you see that, and I think from the outside we look in and it's like, how could they do that? Which fair. I mean, yeah, but at the same time, it just it that spike in the need to feel needed, like you're saying. Yeah. And yeah, all of this attention was taken away from me. There's a lot of grief and loss there too. Like for sure. My person's gone. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and that's valid. Yeah. Not valid to go cheat. So not saying that, but yeah. So obviously, like men have desire, but women also have desire. Surprise. Like surprise. We also like to have some sexy time, not as talked about or not as normalized in society as like it should be, right? Yeah. Um, most of the time in a negative way. Like women are sexualized all the time. And so I feel like also that is part of maybe us holding back sometimes is because we don't want to be perceived. Right. We don't want to be perceived as promiscuous or a certain way, right? But I, you know, when we think about these changes in relationships, this desire that everyone has innately as humans, it doesn't just die. But I see it time and time and time again when I'm working with moms during the transition to parenthood, is they still want that. Yeah. It just gets buried under everything else that they're navigating, under the stress, under the resentment of their partner not stepping up or just going along with the bare minimum, under the exhaustion of sleep deprivation, right? Like all of the things. So oftentimes, like I feel like there's a lot of um assumptions made when we say like desire. Discrepancy, but I just want to hear like from your words. Like when people hear that, what do you think they assume? And like what does that actually look like in the therapy setting or like when you're working with men, women, couples, whatever? So my interest, and I don't think I even said this at the beginning, but also sexual wellness. The reason that I'm passionate about that is just because of the way that I've seen it, one in my own life, but also in the life of friends, other women, famous women, you know, women of the world, and men too. Right. But with desire discrepancy. And when I first heard that term, I was like, oh, okay, so people who don't have the same like quote unquote sex drive. That was what I'd always heard as sex drive. Yeah. You know, not libido, not desire. It was always a sex drive. And it's like, that sounds so innate and so primal, and like it should just come like food, water, sex drive. It's like, no. Um, food and water and shelter and safety, you need to survive. You don't have to have sex to survive. Like, spoiler alert, yeah, it'd be kind of miserable unless that's just something that you don't want for yourself, then that's fine. But you can survive. It is not a survival need. And I think that with desire discrepancy, it's viewed as I or my partner are a problem. How can we fix the problem part so that we can have more sex? And oftentimes I think that people think that like if there's a desire discrepancy, right? Like we just need to have more sex, and then that will fix the desire discrepancy. Right. And I think that is a very typically male-focused perspective of, you know, oh, seven days forms a habit. Let's just have sex for seven days and it'll be a habit and we'll be good. Or, you know, the woman too, when it's like, okay, they have their six-week checkup going back to like perinatal mental health, and it's like, okay, so my body's clear, but then we're not considering, is my mind clear? Yeah. How am I feeling? Does do I feel like I want this? And some do and some don't. Like very different needs there. So if you start to notice you're working with a client and you would start to maybe like pinpoint, ah, there's some desire discrepancy going on. Like, what are people saying? Or what might they be experiencing that they're telling you? Disconnection, loneliness, don't know who they are, don't know who their partner is. But really, I feel like a desire discrepancy is most relationships. Like no two people are just gonna always be horny at the same time. Right. Like, or just turned on, or even open to the idea of having sex at the same time. Right. And then when stress and the rest of life comes in, it's like, yeah, some other things have to take priority sometimes, especially early parenthood or, you know. But when I'm seeing couples or individuals who are coming in and struggling with that, you know, yeah, it's a lot of times for men, it can make men very depressed, or whoever it is that does have the higher desire. It's like, why don't they want me? And then on the flip side, for women, when their partner, if they have a male partner and he doesn't want to have sex with her and she's the one wanting it more. And then it's like, is this even allowed? What is wrong with me? Like he doesn't want to just have sex all the time, and like, or ever, and I do, and like, what's wrong with me? What's wrong with him? Am I disgusting? And it's like so fucked, honestly, that that is the way that people have to think about that. Yeah. Because that's not the truth. And not all men just want to have sex all the time. Yeah. You know, I know that generally and like hormonally and biologically, yes, typically males do have the higher desire. Right. Um, but yeah, and then I don't know. I think it just comes into so many other things. But going back to why, kind of with the desire discrepancies and when it really starts to come out is like, okay, well, when you are having sex, and I added this to like one of my couples' intake, how enjoyable is the sex that you're having when you're having sex, even if it's once a year. Like, is it a good time? Yeah. One through 10. And if you're putting one, two, three, four, five, if you're having it once a year, it better be better than a five. Otherwise, you're never not gonna have it again. Like, it's like soggy bread. No one wants soggy bread. If you're going to your favorite little sandwich place and they start serving you soggy bread every time you go, disgusting. Why would I want to keep going here? Even if I used to like it, things have changed. Disgusting, not fun, not enjoyable, gross, waste of money, waste of time on out. Yeah. So then why, if you're equating like back to the sex life and the desire, if when you are having sex, it is not fulfilling, it does not feel good, it is not enjoyable for you both, you don't feel good about yourself, you're not made to feel like an equal. Why would you want to do that? Right. Like your brain doesn't crave that, your brain doesn't want that. And then back to like the bare minimum. If your heart doesn't feel safe with this person, or your mind and your soul and your body too, like, yeah, why would your body feel safe doing the most one of the most vulnerable things you can do with this person? Right. If your brain and your body mentally don't feel safe. Yeah. Yeah. I I think that's an important distinction distinction is like there is a distinction between actual physical low desire, like you have some hormone or something impacting your libido. Which is what so many people think it is. And again, back to me, I don't mind saying this. Like I used when I was so stressed, I remember, yeah, grad school in like, you know, life. My husband's had a stress, very, very stressful job at one point. That just was not it for him. And it was a really hard time for him, and he's so stressed. He is a person who, like, when he has sex, it helps him to feel more relaxed. For me, no, I need to feel so relaxed and la-di-da and happy and calm and like safe. Yeah. Yeah. To want to have sex. And then it's like, that was great. Yeah. But I had always thought, oh, well, there's something wrong with me during those times where my desire was much lower. Because yeah, when we were first dating, no problems there. But guess what? We are also not living together. We, you know, like saw each other on the weekends. We, it wasn't moving in together, living your whole lives with each other, and you're side by side every day. Like that changes things in itself. And yeah, I remember feeling like, well, something wrong with me. Like, why don't, you know, we're young, like I'm young. But yeah, I was going through the stress of student teaching at one point. Then for him, his job, then deployments, and then grad school and parenting and like all of the things. And when it's constant stress, and I think for so long I minimized that because it was easier to say, I probably have something wrong with my hormones.

SPEAKER_01 28:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:38

Yeah, there's probably something off. I don't know what it is, but something's probably just off. It's fine. I'll get it checked out at some point. And then as we started to have more conversations about this, and yeah, my own learning, becoming a therapist, obviously, it was like, oh, makes sense. Oh, okay. I can do some things to help myself. Yeah. He can do some things to help me. We can do things to help each other. And then I don't have to feel like a broken person when I'm not. Yeah. And I don't have to smack a label on it. That's not true. It's different if you have a hormonal, you know, imbalance. Yeah. That was not my issue. It was stress and not always maybe asking for what I needed because it felt like too much. Yeah. And when I started asking for what I needed, and it was met with support, even if sometimes, of course, there were conversations where it was like, How could you think that way? Why would you think I would think that of, you know, we're human beings. Like it wasn't always just sunshine and rainbows. But at the end of the conversation, you know, coming to the other end and saying, okay, baseline, like, here's what I'm needing from this. How are we feeling about this? You know, and just having those conversations and realizing, like, oh, he wants to know what I want in me. Like, he doesn't just want to have sex with me. He wants to care for me and help me feel cared for. He just doesn't always know how to do that. Yeah. Same for me. Yeah. He wants to feel loved and cared for. How else can I do that when I am at my max or my limit and I don't feel like connecting in that way? Yeah. But you have to talk about it. Yeah. And I think like for a lot of women who maybe have like a really high desire pre, you know, pre-baby, they're having lots of good sex. And then you have sex and you get pregnant. And then you don't feel good. And then you get bigger and you get uncomfortable. And then baby comes. And then, you know, you take time to recover physically and emotionally. And then you're cleared. You know, cleared. I say that with air quotes. Yeah. Um, for physical activity. But like I don't know, like if I can pinpoint a time when like my body actually felt mine. And I think like a conversation that I oftentimes have with women in my office too is like, of course, like sex is not on the top of your brain. No. Sometimes it can be hard to distinguish between my boobs that I'm feeding my child for are also supposed to be sexual in nature for my partner. Like that feels like that's very hard to disconnect the two things, right? The cognitive dissonance behind they both make sense, but right now they can make sense. But right now they both exist. Yeah. Or I'm like touched out. And so like the last thing I want to do is like to be touched, you know, in that form by my partner later. Um, but I I agree with you. Like I think that one of the biggest things that has to happen that oftentimes doesn't happen because we just make assumptions is there has to be conversation with your partner about what's going on, what your needs are. You know, I'm always a little bit, I shouldn't, I shouldn't say shocked. It just kind of makes me giggle whenever I bring up intimacy and sex with the clients I'm working with, that like they seem so shy to like talk about it. And I'm like, you're sitting in my office because you had a baby. You do realize that I know baby's done. Like I do know that you had to have set had sex to like make this happen. But I again, like, I just think it's talking about it, being able to speak our needs and say the things that we we want and we like and we don't like. That's not something that's always been normalized in in our culture, especially from like a woman's standpoint. For sure. Just be like, what can we do for you? How do we have to make the man happy and all of the things? Yeah. And I feel like at times maybe in our conversation today, this has been like a man-hater conversation. Men out there, we love you. This is not a man-hater conversation. I feel it's a societal hate from me. It's yeah. Smash the patriarchy, right? Like it doesn't help anybody. So no, we love we love a healthy man. And an unhealthy man who's willing to heal. To willing to heal, yeah, for sure. I feel like so. Then we ask the questions, right? Like if society has set us up as women to believe that like we shouldn't want or we shouldn't need or whatever, how do we help our clients figure out what they actually want versus what maybe they've been taught to tolerate or like just accept as the bare minimum? Yeah. I think the first thing, well, one, I mean, yeah, it's gonna be a conversation. This is what happens all the time is when I am having a conversation with one person in a partnership or with both, but it always comes up there's gonna be a conversation. You have to be willing to talk about it, you have to be willing to be uncomfortable. But when it comes back to what's the bare minimum versus what's too much, why, what can I really ask for? What can I expect? You have to know what your partner's willing to do or not willing to do, because there's gonna be things on both sides. Like if you are asking for something that feels reasonable to you and you have a discussion about it, and your partner says, I really don't know that I can do that, and they're honest about it, which not always how that goes on the first run. But, you know, usually it's like, okay, okay, I'll do it. Sometimes we can't do that thing that they need. It's just not us, or we just don't think about things the same way, or it feels like a moral wrongness or disconnect. I don't know. Lots of things. But when we're saying that we're gonna do something or we think we can do something, great, we're gonna try and make it better and fix it. But if you bring something to the other person and they say, actually, like I cannot do that, respecting that they're willing to tell the truth, first of all, but then you have to decide, can I go my whole life without the possibility of whatever this thing is that I feel like I'm missing in any area of life, whether it's you want more compliments, you want more little gifts that said I'm thinking, you know, you want me to do this tour every night. I don't know. It could be so many things. You though have to decide. That's where it comes on to the person who's asking, like, okay, can I make my peace with this or not? And if I can, maybe there's a compromise in there where it's like, okay, they're not doing this just to be mean. They're not doing this because they don't love me or care about me. Someone who does say, I don't think I can do that for you, I don't think I can be that person in that way for you, if they genuinely care, at least from my perspective, then they're gonna be willing to say, but here's what I can do. Or I'm open to other um suggestions, or I will really try to do this thing, but I can't guarantee that's gonna be perfect. And I'm gonna need you to remind me. Because we are different people at the end of the day. Yeah. But I think that's the difference in like not trying and also like working towards that place of reciprocity or like mutual effort where we're both putting in effort. I mean, there's there takes effort into considering our partner's ask and being able to do the work of identifying, like, I don't know if actually that is something that I can do. Right. Does this feel like a compromise that I'm willing to make? Yeah. Or does this feel like something that is a deal. Is a we're self-abandoning at that moment or something. Right. Like, and I don't have a clear example of like what that would look like, but there is a difference between the two. And, you know, we can't discredit the work that goes into being able to identify if that is, you know, something that's happening. Yeah. Like if we're constantly, you know, women, again, primarily we are the people pleaser, we're gonna help, we're gonna and sexually, you know, it's like, I don't know. I think I of reading like Cosmos, how to give a better blowjob, how to make sure he blah blah blah blah blah, he, he, he, he. And it's like none of it was about how she should feel. It's like, and then going into the purity culture side of things, it's like sex is for one purpose and one purpose only. For women, the men get to enjoy it and like procreation. But for women, you just are there to be a a vessel, to have a baby. Yeah. Like nothing else is talked about in terms of okay, a penis goes in a vagina. Yeah, that's fun. Great. No, like there's so much more. Yeah, give me more than a seventh grade sex ed lesson, right? Right. If that even honestly, but yeah. And then it just makes the sex worth having piece even harder than just the basic bare minimum in relationships. Because then it's like, what am I willing to tolerate and accept in the bedroom or sexually? But it's like you should not be tolerating anything in the bedroom or sexually because you're doing more damage to yourself if you're having not only sex that isn't worth having, but sex that is damaging to you. Yeah. But you don't know that, you don't know how to vocalize that, you don't know what you want or need. Yeah. And then go see a therapist to discover what do I want? What do I need? Why is this hard for me? Why do I love this one thing? Why do I hate this one thing? Yeah. You know, I don't know. I just feel like this conversation has been so helpful, hopefully, to so many women. And also, like, spoiler alert, um, there's probably going to be a lot more conversation of sex on this podcast if you're turn tuning in for the first time, like it is called Reproductively Speaking. Um, so we are, you know, there's so much more that we could do, like a whole we can make a whole podcast about this topic itself. So definitely there could be more conversations. But if somebody is listening to this episode and they're like, oh my gosh, that's me. Like sometimes I self-abandon or like sometimes I'm accepting the bare minimum. Like, where, where do they start? Like, what what would what advice would you give them? I mean, I think if they're willing to do the work in reflecting and identifying that they are abandoning themselves, that's the first step because again, we float over that a lot of times. And it's what I see coming up in therapy is avoiding it because it's so uncomfortable to think about I've been abandoning myself all this time for this other person who's doing the bare minimum. Yeah. So I'm still not getting what I want and I'm abandoning myself. So identifying it. But then also, yeah, if you feel safe enough having a conversation with just you and your partner and saying, hey, taking ownership for I have been contributing in this way. I have not been expressing my needs, I've not been expressing my wants, my dislikes. That is on me. But now I am. And what are we gonna do with this? Yeah. Rather than continuing to ignore it until you die. And then like you could just improve your quality of your relationship, your happiness, your overall existence by acknowledging and being willing to take the extra steps of, okay, I'm gonna look at this thing. It is uncomfortable and I don't like that I've been doing this. But you know, if you're with a supportive partner, then they're gonna want to work through that with you, even if it is uncomfortable sometimes, even when it leads to conflict sometimes. Like, but you have to be willing to do that. Yeah. If you're not gonna abandon yourself. And if you want to enjoy a life that you feel like you have some say in. Yeah. What would you say are some small ways that couples or individuals could work to rebuild connection that don't feel pressure-based? Like sexual connection? I would just say just connection across the board because I think, you know, right. I think we all need to emotional conversation. Emotional connection is sort of like the avenue that leads to the city. Yeah, it is sportplay. Well, and like emotional connection, that's another thing. Some people, mostly women, need to feel emotionally safe and connected to want to have sex. Again, to me, my theory behind this, amongst the theories that I've gathered, you know, is societally, yes, we need to feel safe and secure to be able to give that part up, you know, when we're in a loving and committed relationship. It's different than when you're again self-abandoning and doing things for others that you might not even want for yourself. But when you're in a relationship and want to be doing these things, yeah. So then rebuilding the connection, it can feel awkward. It might feel a little bit awkward, but it's going to keep feeling awkward until you do something about it. So rebuilding connection of any kind, whether you are a person who needs to be, that's where I was saying, like emotionally connected first. Or again, for men, a lot of times it is they want to have sex first because that's what helps them to feel emotionally available to the their partner. Yeah. So it's the opposite. But the emotional connection, I mean, needs to come first for like safety reasons for all involved. Yeah. And for overall satisfaction for all involved. But I think a low pressure way would just to be, I mean, there are a few things, but I really like it's like the Gottman um, what is that? I mean, it's my mind is blanking now. But the love mapping? I like that too. But the um State of the Union conversations. I love the State of the Union, yeah. Yes. And so, like, yeah, if you're listening, you can literally just Google Gottman's State of the Union conversations. I mean, now, if it's a bigger issue, and I will clarify, obviously, if you're not in a safe relationship or relationship where you feel like your needs will ever be met, again, that's a shitty decision, but it's a decision on you to am I going to continue this or is it even worth it? And it's time to go. Yeah. But in a safe relationship and having these conversations or with a therapist, but I think that can be a really low pressure way, the State of the Union conversations. It's like scheduling it once a week or twice a week or twice a month, whatever works in your schedule. But it's an opportunity to be able to say some positive things that are going well, show some appreciation for each other, and have a structured time to bring up a concern that you've been having. The person's not going to feel attacked because they know that you're going to have this conversation when it's planned into your routine. Right. And that can be really connecting. Or I love the cards, you know, like the card decks that what was your favorite vacation growing up? Um Yeah. And that's kind of like the Gottman love mapping questions too, is just like getting to know your partner on a more intimate level. I mean, honestly, one thing I'm I am always like sort of um talking with clients about is just building in any type of intentional ritual connection. And that could be something as simple as like you both come home from work and you sit on the couch and you bitch about your day together for 15 minutes. Yeah. It doesn't have to be anything that requires like you do this for me and then I do that for you. It's just about that built-in time that we know we're gonna be able to connect and be there for each other. Or have a laugh together. Like it doesn't always have to be a big, you know, date night's great and important, but it doesn't always have to be and it can't always be right going out. Yeah. Yeah. Date night would be great if you have a village and uh support and people that can do that, but that that's a whole nother episode too. In free time. In free time, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Awesome. Well, thank you, Lauren, so much for being here. This is so fun. I feel like we could talk for days. We do talk for days. We do. This is and if anybody is curious and wants a little insight onto um our daily communication, it probably sounds a lot like this via voice memos back and forth about different things that we're thinking of or brainstorming or the things. So that's how we connect. Yeah. So, okay, so do you have openings for new clients? I do have openings for new clients. Okay, can you tell the listeners a little bit about that? If they want to connect with you, how they can and um are you linking things? Yes, we will link um the Floors website and stuff in the show notes and your Instagram page or whatever. You can reach out, you know, through any method. I mean, email typically is the best just because it's all in one place, but you can send me an email, you could send me a text or give me a phone call and I'll call you back when I'm able to. Um but yeah, I have a few evening openings and some daytime openings. They're kind of scattered, but yeah. Plenty of space. Awesome. Yeah, I'd be happy to proceed. Awesome. Well, thanks so much for being here. Yeah. I love you. I'll see you later. Thank you guys so much for listening to today's episode. I really love this conversation because I think so many people are silently navigating these experiences while believing that they're alone in them. Relationships aren't meant to function on mind reading, resentment, exhaustion, or survival mode. And intimacy is about so much more than sex. It's about emotional safety, feeling known, feeling supported, feeling chosen, and being able to communicate honestly about what we need. One of the biggest takeaways from today's conversation is that needing more connection, support, effort, communication, or care in a relationship does not make you too much. And experiencing changes in desire does not mean that you're broken. You deserve relationships where your needs, emotions, and humanity are considered too. If today's episode resonated with you, I'd love if you shared it with someone, left a review, or sent us a message about what stood out to you most. And if you'd like to connect with Lauren, you can find her through Instagram at LG underscore therapy, or through the Flourish Wellness Collective website. As always, thank you for being here and for continuing to have these honest, vulnerable, and deeply human conversations with me. I'll see you next time on Reproductively Speaking. Hey, thanks for being here and spending some time with me on Reproductively Speaking. I hope today's conversation left you feeling a little more seen, supported, and maybe even inspired. If it did, share this episode with a friend who might need it. And don't forget to subscribe or leave a review. It truly makes a difference. Until next time, take care of your mind, your relationships, and yourself. You got this.